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Nitro Express
02-09-2010, 03:54 PM
Compare the buffoons we get as presidents today to this man and they look very, very, very sad in comparison.

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binnie
02-10-2010, 03:44 AM
Next time you should all vote Burt Reynolds.

Imagine the Bandit as president.

Nitro Express
02-10-2010, 01:26 PM
Yeah. He could jump his Trans Am over the Patomic on the 4th of July to celebrate.

sadaist
02-10-2010, 02:11 PM
Next time you should all vote Burt Reynolds.




Next time? I've been writing his ass in ever since I was 18.

Nickdfresh
02-10-2010, 03:01 PM
Naw. Washington would have been hounded by the phony religious right zealots in Congress over his alleged affairs...

FORD
02-10-2010, 03:11 PM
Not to mention his hemp plantation.

Unchainme
02-10-2010, 03:20 PM
Naw. Washington would have been hounded by the phony religious right zealots in Congress over his alleged affairs...

amazing what the founding fathers did back in the day.

I recall seeing a special on Ben Franklin (who I admire),, and how he wrote a letter to some french women talking about how, for a lack of better words, his dick was hard for her.

Nitro Express
02-11-2010, 02:32 AM
The founding fathers were not perfect. I cringe how people made them into demi gods. What I like about them is they valued individual freedom and religion and the state should be separate. They opened the door to a lot of opportunity the Catholic church and the European monarchy kept closed. The slavery was not easy to fix situation left over from the imperialist rule. We can knit pick all the faults we want but the overall accomplishment opened opportunities for millions of people that would have been impossible otherwise.

Also, George Washington could have been a Napoleon but stepped down which is extremely rare in world history.

These men weren't saints but they valued individual freedom and were willing to put their lives and fortune on the line for it.

Seshmeister
02-11-2010, 05:42 AM
It's fucking laughable someone talking about freedom all the time whilst keeping slaves.

What a joke.

Nitro Express
02-11-2010, 01:38 PM
It's fucking laughable someone talking about freedom all the time whilst keeping slaves.

What a joke.

It wasn't a problem that had an easy fix plus the American Revolution was about breaking away from the rule of a monarch. It was basically a tax revolt. Some of the founding fathers were slave owners and others hated the practice but it was the reality of the times. It was a white man's world and women and people of color were down the totem pole in those days. It was the way it was in those days.

Nitro Express
02-11-2010, 01:40 PM
You really can judge late 18th century America by the standards of 21st century America. It was a different world back then.

knuckleboner
02-11-2010, 04:03 PM
It wasn't a problem that had an easy fix plus the American Revolution was about breaking away from the rule of a monarch. It was basically a tax revolt. Some of the founding fathers were slave owners and others hated the practice but it was the reality of the times. It was a white man's world and women and people of color were down the totem pole in those days. It was the way it was in those days.

nah, that's one of washington's big flaws. he freed all of his slaves on his death, but didn't do it beforehand, which he could have.

it's a little weird to be fighting for freedom while actively denying it to others.

now, i'll cut george some slack because of the times - i won't call him an evil person, just wrong. until he died.

Nickdfresh
02-11-2010, 05:06 PM
It's fucking laughable someone talking about freedom all the time whilst keeping slaves.

What a joke.

They were products of their time. Yeah, it's a bit retarded. But most historical figures where bastards in one way or another. You can't deny they changed history nor minimize their contribution to it, nor were they any different than the European colonialist "White Man's Burden"™ assholes pretending to "civilize" places like Africa while arbitrarily fucking that continent to hell...

Diamondjimi
02-11-2010, 05:17 PM
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj75/b0ng0inc/ChuckNorris1.jpg

kwame k
02-11-2010, 05:51 PM
The irony is the framers of our country struggled with the issue of slavery, for about a second that is.

They decided against do anything about it as to not upset the southern states and because of economic concerns. Yet the issue was brought up and they chose to ignore it.

Seshmeister
02-11-2010, 07:41 PM
1500-1700

* 1588 Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth abolishes slavery[citation needed]
* 1600 Last villein dies in England[citation needed]

1700-1800

* 1723 Russia abolishes slavery.[3]
* 1761, 12 February, Portugal abolishes slavery[4] in mainland Portugal and in Portuguese possessions in India through a decree by the Marquis of Pombal.
* 1772 Practice of slavery declared illegal in England, this included the status of overseas slaves living in England. Lord Chief Justice Mansfield rules that English law does not support slavery.[5]
* 1777 Slavery abolished in Madeira, Portugal[5]
* 1777 Slavery abolished in Vermont Republic[5]
* 1780 Pennsylvania abolishes slavery
* 1783 Russia abolishes slavery in Crimean Khanate[6]
* 1783 Massachusetts rules slavery illegal based on 1780 constitution[5]
* 1783 Bukovina: Joseph II, Holy Roman Emperor issued an order abolishing slavery on 19 June 1783 in Czernowitz.[7]
* 1784 Connecticut abolishes slavery
* 1784 Rhode Island abolishes slavery
* 1787 Sierra Leone founded by Britain as colony for emancipated slaves
* 1787 Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade founded in Britain[5]
* 1788 Sir William Dolben's Act regulating the conditions on British slave ships enacted
* 1792 Denmark-Norway declared transatlantic slave trade illegal after 1802 (though slavery continues to 1848).
* 1793 Upper Canada, by Act Against Slavery
* 1794 French First Republic abolishes slavery[5][8]
* 1796 Napoleon restores slavery in the French colonies.
* 1799 New York State abolishes slavery
* 1799 in Scotland, by an act of the Parliament of Great Britain (39 Geo.III. c. 56).[9]

1800-1900

* 1802 The emperor Napoleon re-introduces slavery on French colonies growing sugarcane. [4]
* 1803 Denmark-Norway abolishes transatlantic slave trade on 1 January 1803
* 1803 Lower Canada abolishes slavery
* 1804 Haiti declares independence and abolishes slavery[5]
* 1807 Abolition of the Slave Trade Act: slave trading abolished in British Empire. Captains fined £100 per slave transported.
* 1807 British begin patrols of African coast to arrest slaving vessels. West Africa Squadron (Royal Navy) established to suppress slave trading; by 1865, nearly 150,000 people freed by anti-slavery operations[10]
* 1807 Abolition in Prussia, Germany The Stein-Hardenberg Reforms.
* 1808 United States—importation of slaves into the US prohibited after 1 Jan..[11]
* 1811 Slave trading made a felony in the British Empire punishable by transportation for British subjects and foreigners.
* 1811 Spain abolishes slavery at home and in all colonies except Cuba,[4] Puerto Rico, and Santo Domingo
* 1813 Argentina abolishes slavery[4]
* 1814 Dutch outlaw slave trade
* 1815 British pay Portuguese £750,000 (several hundred million dollars in current values) to cease their trade[12]
* 1815 Congress of Vienna. 8 Victorious powers declared their opposition to slavery
* 1816 Serfdom abolished in Estonia.
* 1817 Serfdom abolished in Courland.
* 1817 Spain paid £400,000 by British to cease trade to Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Santo Domingo[12]
* 1818 Treaty between Britain and Spain to abolish slave trade
* 1818 Treaty between Britain and Portugal to abolish slave trade
* 1818 France and Holland abolish slave trading
* 1819 Treaty between Britain and Netherlands to abolish slave trade
* 1819 Serfdom abolished in Livonia.
* 1821 Gran Colombia (Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela, Panama) declares free the sons and daughters born to slave mothers, sets up program for compensated emancipation
* 1822 Liberia founded by American Colonization Society (USA) as a colony for emancipated slaves.
* 1822 Greece abolishes slavery (note: that this is the year the modern state was founded and therefore slavery was banned right from the very beginning).
* 1823 Chile abolishes slavery[5]
* 1824 The Federal Republic of Central America abolishes slavery.
* 1827 Treaty between Britain and Sweden to abolish slave trade
* 1829 Mexico abolishes slavery
* 1831 Bolivia abolishes slavery
* 1834 The British Slavery Abolition Act 1833 comes into force, abolishing slavery throughout most of the British Empire. The exceptions being territories controlled by the Honourable East India Company and the islands of Ceylon and St Helena.
* 1834 Slavery abolished in Jamaica
* 1835 Treaty between Britain and France to abolish slave trade
* 1835 Treaty between Britain and Denmark to abolish slave trade
* 1836 Portugal abolishes transatlantic slave trade
ti-Slavery Society founded, now called Anti-Slavery International
* 1839 Indian indenture system made illegal (reversed in 1842)
* 1840 Treaty between Britain and Venezuela to abolish slave trade
* 1841 Quintuple Treaty is signed; Britain, France, Russia, Prussia, and Austria agree to suppress slave trade
* 1842 Uruguay abolishes slavery
* 1843 Honourable East India Company becomes increasingly controlled by Britain and abolishes slavery in India by the Indian Slavery Act V. of 1843.
* 1843 Treaty between Britain and Uruguay to suppress slave trade
* 1843 Treaty between Britain and Mexico to suppress slave trade
* 1843 Treaty between Britain and Chile to suppress slave trade
* 1843 Treaty between Britain and Bolivia to abolish slave trade
* 1845 36 British Royal Navy ships are assigned to the Anti-Slavery Squadron, making it one of the largest fleets in the world.
* 1846 Tunisia abolishes slavery
* 1847 Sweden abolishes slavery
* 1848 Denmark abolishes slavery
* 1848 Slavery abolished in all French and Danish colonies
* 1848 France founds Gabon for settlement of emancipated slaves.
* 1848 Treaty between Britain and Muscat to suppress slave trade
* 1849 Treaty between Britain and Persian Gulf states to suppress slave trade
* 1850 United States: Fugitive Slave Law of 1850
* 1851 New Granada (Colombia) abolishes slavery
* 1852 The Hawaiian Kingdom abolished slavery
* 1854 Peru abolishes slavery
* 1854 Venezuela abolishes slavery
* 1855 Moldavia abolishes slavery.
* 1856 Wallachia abolishes slavery.
* 1860 Indenture system abolished within British occupied India.
* 1861 Russia frees its serfs in the Emancipation reform of 1861.
* 1862 Treaty between United States and Britain for the suppression of the slave trade (African Slave Trade Treaty Act).
* 1862 Cuba abolishes slave trade
* 1863 Slavery abolished in Dutch colonies
* 1863 United States: Emancipation Proclamation declares those slaves in Confederate-controlled areas to be freed. Most slaves in "border states" are freed by state action; separate law frees the slaves in Washington, D.C.
* 1865 United States abolishes slavery with the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution; about 40,000 remaining slaves are affected.
* 1869 Portugal abolishes slavery in the African colonies
* 1870 U.S. abolishes slavery in Alaska
* 1871 Brazil declares free the sons and daughters born to slave mothers after 28 September 1871.
* 1873 Slavery abolished in Puerto Rico
* 1873 Treaty between Britain and Zanzibar and Madagascar to suppress slave trade
* 1874 Britain abolishes slavery in the Gold Coast (now Ghana) following its annexation in 1874 (after Third Anglo-Asante War).
* 1886 Slavery abolished in Cuba
* 1888 Brazil abolishes slavery
* 1890 Brussels Act - Treaty granting anti-slavery powers the right to stop and search ships for slaves
* 1894 Korea abolishes slavery
* 1896 France abolishes slavery in Madagascar
* 1897 Zanzibar abolishes slavery following its becoming a British protectorate.

1900-today

* 1906 China formally abolishes slavery and the law became effective on 31 January 1910, when all adult slaves were converted into hired labourers and the young were freed upon reaching age 25.
* 1912 Siam (Thailand), formally abolishes all slavery. The act of selling a person into slavery was abolished in 1897 but slavery itself was not outlawed.
* 1923 Afghanistan abolishes slavery
* 1924 Iraq abolishes slavery
* 1924 League of Nations Temporary Slavery Commission
* 1926 Slavery Convention. Bound all signatories to end slavery Convention to Suppress the Slave Trade and Slavery (25 September 1926)
* 1926 Nepal abolishes slavery
* 1928 Iran abolishes slavery
* 1928 Domestic slavery practised by local African elites abolished in Sierra Leone(ironically established as a place for freed slaves). A study found practices of domestic slavery still widespread in rural areas in the 1970s.
* 1935 Italian General Emilio De Bono proclaims slavery to be abolished in the Ethiopian Empire
* 1936 Britain eradicates slavery in Northern Nigeria
* 1942 Ethiopian Empire abolishes slavery
* 1945 In the subsequent defeat of Nazi Germany and Japan, the workcamps, although rare (Primarily Jewish encampments in Nazi Germany and colonists in the by Japan dominated lands), were gradually removed by the invaders.
* 1946 Fritz Sauckel, procurer of slave labor for Nazi Germany, convicted at the Nuremberg trials and executed as war criminal.
* 1948 UN Article 4 of the Declaration of Human Rights bans slavery globally
* 1952 Qatar abolishes slavery
* 1959 Slavery in Tibet is abolished by China after the Dalai Lama flees.
* 1962 Saudi Arabia abolishes slavery
* 1962 Yemen abolishes slavery
* 1963 United Arab Emirates abolishes slavery
* 1969 Peru abolishes the encomiendas regime through a land reform ending de facto slavery in the country.
* 1970 Oman abolishes slavery
* 1981 Mauritania abolishes slavery

Diamondjimi
02-11-2010, 07:55 PM
Got a link, or was that off the top of your head?:biggrin:

(JK)

kwame k
02-12-2010, 12:28 AM
* 1772 Practice of slavery declared illegal in England, this included the status of overseas slaves living in England. Lord Chief Justice Mansfield rules that English law does not support slavery.[5]

* 1777 Slavery abolished in Vermont Republic[5]
* 1780 Pennsylvania abolishes slavery
* 1783 Massachusetts rules slavery illegal based on 1780 constitution[5]
* 1784 Connecticut abolishes slavery
* 1784 Rhode Island abolishes slavery

Kind of a misnomer that slavery was legal everywhere in The States until the civil war. Vermont was only five years behind England and our country was only a year old, what do you expect?

The shit Thomas Jefferson wrote at times was for slavery and at other times against it. He writes in 1774
“The abolition of domestic slavery is the great object of desire in those colonies, where it was unhappily introduced in their infant state. But previous to the enfranchisement of the slaves we have, it is necessary to exclude all further importations from Africa…”

Yet he had hundreds of slaves when he wrote that. He thought blacks were inferior and wanted them deported if slavery was abolished :pullinghair: he was so close...missed it by an inch.

Ben Franklin wasn't a fan and neither was John Adams.

George Washington, huge fan of slavery....signed The Fugitive Slave Act into law and was saying shit like, "Well, if there has to be slavery, they might as well stay with me because I treat them well."' or some nonsense like that.

The point is, those who were making a profit off of slavery had them.Those who made their money outside of farming or labor intensive industries didn't. As with everything, it was about money.

It was being debated and certain people pushed for abolition just not enough of them.

Blackflag
02-12-2010, 12:38 AM
They decided against do anything about it as to not upset the southern states and because of economic concerns.

It's not a question of "upsetting" them - there would have been no United States, period. That's the compromise.

kwame k
02-12-2010, 01:09 AM
It's not a question of "upsetting" them - there would have been no United States, period. That's the compromise.

That's why I wrote the last sentence, you left out of your quote.


Yet the issue was brought up and they chose to ignore it.

Nitro Express
02-12-2010, 02:52 AM
The founding fathers were very different from each other as well were the colonies that they represented. I'm amazed the revolution and continental congress didn't fail. I think my favorite founding father was Benjamin Franklin. That guy was a character.

kwame k
02-12-2010, 01:54 PM
The founding fathers were very different from each other as well were the colonies that they represented. I'm amazed the revolution and continental congress didn't fail. I think my favorite founding father was Benjamin Franklin. That guy was a character.

Yeah Ben was a hoot....and always had good quotes ;)

I think what gets forgotten here is how labor intensive farming was in the 18th century. You had to have a lot of people and if the farmers had to pay wages they probably wouldn't of made a profit.

Take cotton as an example, to pick, strip the seeds, and process it took tons of people for a big scale operation. It wasn't until Eli Whitney's cotton 'gin came about that it was possible to get more cotton with less people. Not that that happened because you still needed tons of people to get the cotton to the cotton gin and you just produced more cotton because you had more people that could work larger fields.

Slavery was motivated by money....the farmers had to have cheap labor to make profits. That's why you basically get the "lines" drawn between North and South. It's not a simplistic as everyone in the South wanted slavery and everyone in the North didn't but when you look where cotton was produced and who had more to gain by keeping slavery legal, the scales tip to the South.

In a way it's no different than today. We demand cheap products and anything that is labor intensive gets shipped to countries that use child labor or laborers that work for next to nothing (slave wages) in appalling conditions so we can have cheap clothes, etc.

I am not trying to rationalize slavery but when you come down to the most basic human element....greed. You can understand why people did it. Look at what people do today to make a buck and we'll always have people who will shun morality to make a profit.

Nitro Express
02-12-2010, 03:49 PM
Exactly. We never got rid of slavery. We exported it to China, Vietnam, India, Bangladesh. Millions of people shop at Wal-Mart one of the biggest slave enablers on the planet and don't give a rat's ass. So the lesson learned is if you keep the slaves out of sight, that's all you need to do, and business will be good. People never talk about the Chinese girl sold into prostitution because she complained or didn't make her factory quota.

Seshmeister
02-12-2010, 08:32 PM
Yeah.

The world is a big bad place. I live in a country which has done some terrible things too.

My point is that the US need not be so insecure that it puts these founding father people on pedestals. They came up with some good stuff but they were very flawed too.

Why worry about it?

Well it goes to the problems now where the system they instigated for sensible reasons now paralyzes and corrupts the US government.