Obama-Biden opposed Iraq war, its tactics, prepared to accept credit for its success

[Fuct Jup]

Who knew?

Thank goodness, Vice President Joe Biden went on CNN to chat with Larry King Wednesday night. So many think things are not going so well for the Democrat administration, as The Ticket chronicled here.

Many Americans recall the ex-Sen. Biden's Democratic primary plans to give in to Iraq's fractious factions and carve the country into three territories. And even more probably recall Biden's boss' plan to halt the Iraq war years ago. As long as it got started anyway without the permission of the then state senator.

Plus, of course, Obama's vehement opposition to the 2007 American troop surge of you-know-who from Texas that Obama knew for certain was only going to worsen sectarian strife there. (See 2007 video here.)....

Well, of course, it didn't turn out that way, thanks in large measure to the brave service of hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops who served in that war-torn land and helped peace to break out despite the loud political acrimony back home over their role.

Now, the Obama-Biden pair that opposed the Iraq war and its tactics and predicted their failure is prepared to accept credit for its success.


It seems that Biden, who's from Delaware when he's in Delaware and Pennsylvania when in Pennsylvania, is certain now that Iraq will turn out to be one of the Obama-Biden administration's greatest achievements.

No, really.

Here's how Biden put it to Lar:

I am very optimistic about -- about Iraq. I mean, this could be one of the great achievements of this administration. You're going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You're going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government.

I spent -- I've been there 17 times now. I go about every two months -- three months. I know every one of the major players in all the segments of that society. It's impressed me. I've been impressed how they have been deciding to use the political process rather than guns to settle their differences.

Biden did not elaborate on what all the administration's other "great achievements" were so far.

No doubt, Iraqis too are very thankful for that 2008 U.S. election. (Full King transcript here.)

Joe Biden update: Iraq one of Obama's 'great achievements' | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/02/joe-biden-update-larry-king-iraq-obama-sarah-palin.html)

[Terry]

Well, I think the "achievement" Biden is referring to regards bringing the troops home.

For someone who opposed the war and the tactics used to fight it, I would imagine getting the troops out of there and more or less handing to country back over to Iraq WOULD be a measure of success.

Frankly, I think it waste a waste of resources from the get-go. We went in there for all the wrong reasons, made one mistake after the next while we were there (was the 2006 surge an example of brilliant geopolitical military tactics, or just one of only two options by then, due to our own bungled managing of the war?) to the tune of 1-2 trillion dollars...lucky for the neocons they got to slink away and let someone else clean up the mess.

[bueno bob]

You should probably read it a bit more closely. The only credit being taken is for the pullout being a success (and ahead of schedule).

"I mean, this could be one of the great achievements of this administration. You're going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer."

Are you REALLY so fucking dense as to think he's taking credit for the whole thing since 2001?

Grasping at straws in an effort to crucify, example A....

[Seshmeister]

[B]Many Americans recall the ex-Sen. Biden's Democratic primary plans to give in to Iraq's fractious factions and carve the country into three territories.

Because dividing up countries has gone so well in the past?

[Nickdfresh]

Because dividing up countries has gone so well in the past?

The argument was that Iraq wasn't a "real" country, but an artificial nation-state combination of nationalities. It's a legacy of British colonialism and their penchant for just arbitrarily combining different tribes, clans. religions, nationalities, etc in accordance with their "map."

It's one of the reasons that Saddam was so brutal, and the continuing source of problems such as ethnic cleansing and genocide in places like Rwanda and the Sudan.

One could argue that it is not the splitting up of countries that does the harm, but the Western notion of false boundaries having nothing to do with ethnicities and natural geographic barriers to migration (or invasions)...

BTW, it's funny how idiots like Fuct Jerk crow about what a "victory" Iraq was after we spent several fruitless years there, spent tillion$, and bankrupted ourselves...

A few more of Bush's "victories," and we'll be fucked like King Pyrrhus. Secondly, the "Iraq victory" of counterinsurgency and essentially bribing former Sunni Baathists whilst al Qaida of Iraq managed to make even their most argent allies hate them with senseless brutality was essentially a "liberal" one (according the definitions of what "liberal" is to people like BBB, Fuct Jup, Ultrapussy, etc). Because the Iraq War only turned around when the Bush regime brought in the "dissenters," and let the people who were fundamentally against the war in the beginning actually plan the "Surge."

[Nickdfresh]

Well, of course, it didn't turn out that way, thanks in large measure to the brave service of hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops who served in that war-torn land and helped peace to break out despite the loud political acrimony back home over their role.

And don't forget the paying off of the "terrorist" insurgents who had blood on their hands to from the "Awakening" Sunni militia movement. Also don't forget the corrupt, death squad Shiite gov't we supported --whom managed to summarily execute and ethnically cleanse a good deal of their own population into sectarian boundaries...

[Seshmeister]

was the 2006 surge an example of brilliant geopolitical military tactics, or just one of only two options by then, due to our own bungled managing of the war?)

I don't think borrowing billions off of the Chinese to pay to Iraqis so they stop shooting at you could be described as brilliant, more like pretty desperate.

[FORD]

Because dividing up countries has gone so well in the past?

Actually, what caused the problem in Iraq is when the British Empire decided to take three groups of people who can't fucking stand each other, and throw them together in one artificially created "country". Not all that different from the Yugoslavia thing.

Such fake countries can appear to be functional when under control of a dictator like Saddam or Tito, but take that away from them and once again they remember "Oh yeah, I'm supposed to hate these fucking Sunnis, and hate the Kurds twice as much".

Biden's plan actually made sense. At least in theory. Getting the three factions to agree where the borders would be drawn might be another matter entirely.

[Nickdfresh]

I don't think borrowing billions off of the Chinese to pay to Iraqis so they stop shooting at you could be described as brilliant, more like pretty desperate.

Worked in Northern Ireland. :)

[thome]

Yeah right, like you, the truth that freedom from oppression and the ability to provide for your future by a democratic government leads to peace and contentment.

There will always be asshole thugs and gangs, but shouldn't the Iraqi people have the right to vote them into office themselves..?

Aye Theeeer'z The Rub!

Oh wait it's about oil my bad....