Truth about the so called tea baggers [Archive] - The Diamond David Lee Roth Army

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Carloscda

02-16-2010, 12:13 AM

Unchainme

02-16-2010, 02:04 AM

Not that I agree with the teabaggers, but I don't understand the label that has recently been cast upon them as "racists".

Politically Naive? Yup, I frankly don't believe that they are anywhere near as informed as say, a FORD or his equivlant on the right, and this is what happens when you take Limbaugh and Beck as the gospel.

But to me, most of the anger comes from excessive gov't spending and the increasing tax rates and the lack of jobs. I really don't see, how that can suddenly be constricted as racist. You can easily post some sign from a march with some racist moron with a photoshopped pic. of obama on a sign, but again, you'll have that at every form of a protest. Take the Iraq war protests (which I had no problem with, those people had every right to voice their opinion.), there were plenty of nasty photoshops of Bush, Cheney and what have you. Again, I have ZERO problem with that.

The only protesters, I DO have a problem with would be the morons that make up the Phelps klan, all of which should not be allowed to protest someones funeral and have earned the right to a thourough ass kicking.

To sum it up, I just feel that every American should have the right to speak out against the government, be they on the left or the right and when we start to demonize either side for doing as such, or try to say "You can't protest because of X-reason..", it could get ugly. Notice, I didn't say challenge? Challenging someone is a great thing and is what makes a democracy. I also believe, that you have a right to be wrong, in which I think most of the Teabaggers are. Obama is not a nazi/socalist, whatever the hell you may call it, he's just a lousy president.

Also, did Olbermann just call pretty much every white guy accross the country racist? I find that a bit inaccurate and offensive. As a christian caucasion living in the suburbs raised in a conservative household (trying to fill every stereotype for mr. olbermann, though I myself am NOT a conservative), I could truly care less about what color a person's skin is, if they came to this country recently or are gay or straight, I judge them by whether they're a good person or not, I believe that is what the God Lord said to do in my bible. ;), and I'm sure there's a good percentage of the country that is not alone in that feeling.

sadaist

02-16-2010, 02:28 AM

Very well said Unchainme.

Hardrock69

02-16-2010, 02:30 AM

What I found hilarious were all the morons, er, I mean 'sheeple' that were interviewed on local TV last week. Many stupid comments like "WE WANT CHANGE!", and "we are not being governed by the Constitution any more" (can't really argue too much about that second comment).

These morons who say "we want change" need to rise up and abolish the Republican Party, for as long as they exist, Christian Corporate Fascist America will make sure everything stays exactly the same.

The morons GOT change, but they are too stupid to realize it. Their definition of 'change' is to have an idiot Republican liar get elected President. And the Republicans are so afraid of change, they are willing to die to ensure the status quo remains in full effect.

So the Tea Party needs to overthrow the Republicans.
That is when they will see some real change.

Until the Tea Party rises up and seizes power, the Republicans will continue to exert all possible effort to keep the American People from Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit Of Happiness.
Funny how those who scream the loudest how patriotic they are, are the ones who are destroying our country. The Republicans are not trying to help America because they are spending all their time and all of their constituent's money figuring out how to stop Obama from ruining their cushy fucking lifestyle.

So the Tea Party needs to put up, or shut up. If they are unwilling to start the Second American Revolution, they need to quit whining because a black man IS the President Of The United States Of America. :lol:

sadaist

02-16-2010, 02:39 AM

Also, did Olbermann just call pretty much every white guy accross the country racist?

YES.

I found this. Kinda funny & true. Only included first few paragraphs. Link below.

Count the blacks, says Keith Olbermann. Count the blacks. All white males are prejudice, racist, and closed minded somewhere deep down in their souls. And those tea party folks – they are the super racists. Why? Because Olbermann watches their rallies and counts the blacks.

I wonder if it ever crosses Keith’s mind that he may be the problem? While everyone else is trying to judge people by the content of their character, he’s counting blacks in a crowd and claiming all whites are racist. Olbermann, there’s prejudice people out there alright, and you’re the proof.

I believe Olbermann has a bad case of psychological projection, also known as projection bias. Psychological projection is often defined as “the unconscious act of denial of a person’s own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to other people.” I think we now know why Olbermann thinks everyone is a bigot.

Psychological Projection? Olbermann Claims All Whites Are Prejudice Deep Down | NewsReal Blog (http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/02/16/psychological-projection-olbermann-claims-all-whites-are-prejudice-deep-down/)

sadaist

02-16-2010, 02:46 AM

And the Republicans are so afraid of change, they are willing to die to ensure the status quo remains in full effect.

I don't think people want the "status quo" so to speak, as in things staying the way they are without changing. I believe they feel that by not changing, somehow we will magically revert back to better, happier, simpler times like people envision the late 40's & early 50's to be.

FORD

02-16-2010, 03:16 AM

Some of the teabaggers ARE racist ignorant Freeper assholes. Others are merely ignorant Freeper assholes who would hate a white Democratic President just as much (they were hostile to Clinton in the 1990s too) And yeah, there is a third category..... a few of them have legitimate concerns about the shit that has happened in this country but they have been misled as to when the problems started, and who started it.

Hint: It didn't start January 20, 2009, and it wasn't started by Barack Hussein Obama. Try Ronald Reagan. Or more accurately, the BCE who controlled him. They're the ones who started the systematic destruction of this country, and everything FDR put in place to save it. Poppy kept it going. Clinton was a better manager than them, which allowed the economy to rebound, and even finished with a surplus. But he doesn't get off the hook. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 opened the door for media consolidation, and the repeal of Glass Steagal in 1999 made the financial meltdown of recent years possible. And of course, when Chimp and Darth stole the election, all pretense of trying to fix anything went right out the window. They didn't give a shit, and everybody knew it.

And Obama? Well, you can't be the next FDR with a bunch of useless Clinton retreads in your cabinet. Disappointment with the results so far would be a huge understatement. But I ain't about to make up bullshit about where the man was born, or delude myself into thinking an inbred cunt from Alaska could do better.

Carloscda

02-16-2010, 03:49 AM

To keep it Real where was all this the past 8yrs??!
2 stolen elections!! And talk about lying, Bush went on National television several times lying to the American people about WOMD that were NEVER FOUND!! Totally disregarded NATO etc..

Where's the out cry??!

Then you constantly hear "we want our country back"
Back from where, where did it go?

Oh that's right a Black man is President now. So in essence you mean back from the black man!!

And can't forget "he's running this country into the ground" Really
The Man's been in office a yr, so you mean to me he created all this in 1yr??!!

Once again where have you been for the past 8yrs?!

Bottom line all this didn't happen overnight and it's going to take at least 8yrs to fix!!

Seshmeister

02-16-2010, 03:57 AM

It's generally a good idea to be very suspicious of people that talk a lot about patriotism.

LoungeMachine

02-16-2010, 04:20 AM

It's generally a good idea to be very suspicious of people that talk a lot about patriotism.

Or the "homeland"

:gulp:

sadaist

02-16-2010, 04:34 AM

Some of the teabaggers ARE racist ...

Yes. And so are some liberals, democrats, republicans, teachers, plumbers, painters, car salesmen, doctors, lawyers, actors, musicians, fishermen, politicians, etc.... But prejudice towards an entire group based on the few that are singled out & highlighted is no different than stereotyping any other group based on a few. It's bigoted, hypocritical, and just plain ignorant.

sadaist

02-16-2010, 04:43 AM

a few of them have legitimate concerns about the shit that has happened in this country....

How do you know it's only a "few"? Why not a majority, with the few being the fringe loons? Because Mike Malloy, Olbermann, Maddow and the likes don't show or talk about them so you believe the number to be minuscule? I know the loons make for better TV & radio and are more fun to talk about & ridicule, but you have no way of knowing what percentage of these people have legitimate concerns other than pulling the numbers out of your ass.

And who gets to determine what is considered a "legitimate" concern?

FORD

02-16-2010, 05:02 AM

How do you know it's only a "few"? Why not a majority, with the few being the fringe loons? Because Mike Malloy, Olbermann, Maddow and the likes don't show or talk about them so you believe the number to be minuscule? I know the loons make for better TV & radio and are more fun to talk about & ridicule, but you have no way of knowing what percentage of these people have legitimate concerns other than pulling the numbers out of your ass.

And who gets to determine what is considered a "legitimate" concern?

Obviously you haven't listened to Mike Malloy lately. Hell on tonight's show he was more pissed off at so called "Democrats" than the Repukes. And Thom Hartmann actually wants to attempt to find common ground with the non-racist teabaggers. Though that would only be likely with the third category I mentioned above, because the ones conditioned to blame everything on "Libruls" (even though there are painfully few Liberals in the current Congress, and none in the executive branch)

BigBadBrian

02-16-2010, 05:43 AM

Hint: It didn't start January 20, 2009, and it wasn't started by Barack Hussein Obama. Try Ronald Reagan. Or more accurately, the BCE who controlled him. They're the ones who started the systematic destruction of this country, and everything FDR put in place to save it. Poppy kept it going. Clinton was a better manager than them, which allowed the economy to rebound, and even finished with a surplus. But he doesn't get off the hook.

FORD, I have alot of respect for you...I actually do.

But every argument you make goes out the window when you start in with this BCE crap.

LoungeMachine

02-16-2010, 06:14 AM

FORD, I have alot of respect for you...I actually do.

But every argument you make goes out the window when you start in with this BCE crap.

Would BFD make more sense?

The Bush Family Dynasty was built on Criminal Enterpises.....

:gulp:

Even a simp like you knows that much.

bueno bob

02-16-2010, 06:14 AM

FORD, I have alot of respect for you...I actually do.

But every argument you make goes out the window when you start in with this BCE crap.

Oh, completely. I mean, why bother looking into the past to see how we got to where we are today?

That's just crazy talk.

jhale667

02-16-2010, 10:53 AM

I believe they feel that by not changing, somehow we will magically revert back to better, happier, simpler times like people envision the late 40's & early 50's to be.

But that's at the very heart of their delusion though: Unless you were a white middle-class male, the 40s and 50s pretty much SUCKED!!

They long for a time when minorities had absolutely no say in government, were barely seen and almost never heard. THAT's the America they want "back".

Fuck them. :fufu:

Fuct Jup

02-16-2010, 11:27 AM

To keep it Real where was all this the past 8yrs??!
2 stolen elections!! And talk about lying, Bush went on National television several times lying to the American people about WOMD that were NEVER FOUND!!

Yea cause Iraq never had WMD's: :biggrin:
Iraq's Chemical Weapon Program

Well before Operation Desert Storm or the U.N. inspections that followed it, Iraq had already begun to build chemical weapons. After launching a research effort in the 1970s, Iraq was able to use chemical weapons in its war against Iran and to kill large numbers of its own Kurdish population in the 1980s. During the first Gulf War, there were fears that Iraq would launch chemical-tipped missiles at its neighbors, particularly Israel, but Iraq refrained for fear of U.S. retaliation. During Operation Iraqi Freedom, coalition troops again feared they might be hit with chemical weapons, though this did not come to pass.

By 1991, the United Nations had established its Special Commission (UNSCOM) and charged it with the task of destroying, removing, or rendering harmless "all chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities."

By the time UNSCOM left Iraq in December 1998, it had eliminated a large portion of Iraq's chemical weapon potential. UNSCOM had overseen the destruction or incapacitation of more than 88,000 filled or unfilled chemical munitions, over 600 tons of weaponized or bulk chemical agents, some 4,000 tons of precursor chemicals, some 980 pieces of key production equipment, and some 300 pieces of analytical equipment. Notwithstanding these extraordinary achievements, there remained important uncertainties regarding Iraq's holdings of chemical weapons, their precursors, and munitions.

I. Chemical Agents

CS and Mustard Gases

After a successful research effort in the 1970s, Iraq began producing tear gas and mustard gas in the early 1980s. Tear gas is not lethal; its chief use is riot control. It causes pain to the eyes and nose, and uncontrollable coughing. Iraq first produced several tons of CS tear gas at its Salman Pak site, and by the early 1980s began military-scale production at the al-Muthanna State Establishment.

Iraq also began to produce sulphur mustard blister gas (HD) in the early 1980s, and by 1983 was able to employ it in chemical munitions against Iran. The primary effect of mustard gas is skin and eye blistering and lung irritation. Heavy exposure to an aerosol of mustard gas causes the lungs to fill with fluid and "drown" the victim. Mustard gas has a low death rate; generally only 2 to 3 percent of its victims perish.

Iraq initially told UNSCOM that 3,080 tons of mustard gas had been produced, but in 1995 Iraq reduced this amount to 2,850 tons. UNSCOM found Iraq's mustard gas to be at least 80% pure and determined that it could be stored for long periods of time, both in bulk and in weaponized form. In its distilled form, mustard gas has a long life, and can be stockpiled for decades. It is relatively easy to produce and load into munitions. Iraq admits filling some 550 artillery shells with mustard gas but says it misplaced them shortly after the first Gulf War.

Nerve Gas: Sarin and Tabun

Iraq moved up to producing the nerve gases sarin (GB) and tabun (GA) in 1984. These gases are highly toxic compounds that can penetrate the body either through contact with skin or eyes, or by inhalation. Just a few droplets will kill within minutes if inhaled or within hours if absorbed through the skin. The initial effects depend on the amount of contact with the agent and are almost immediate. Chemical nerve agents tend to have little or no incubation or latent period in the body. These agents act by attacking the central nervous system, causing rapid paralysis, respiratory failure and death by asphyxiation.

According to Iraq, the sarin and tabun it first produced was of poor quality. It was unstable, and the effectiveness of the agents diminished quickly after production. Iraq claimed that its production methods were later changed to eliminate the stabilization problem. Iraq argued that the tabun it produced was of such poor quality that Iraq turned its research, development and production effort to prolonging the viability of sarin instead.

Iraq adopted the "binary" method of weaponization, in which the components of sarin gas are stored separately until use, when they are mixed. The components of sarin are DF 2 and the alcohols cyclohexanol and isoproponal. Iraq manufactured DF 2 with a purity of 95%, and imported alcohols of 100% purity, so the detonation of its munitions could be expected to yield relatively pure sarin.

At first, Iraq told UNSCOM that it had produced an estimated 250 tons of tabun and 812 tons of sarin. In 1995, Iraq changed its estimates and reported it had produced only 210 tons of tabun and 790 tons of sarin. Thus, it is still uncertain how much tabun and sarin Iraq actually manufactured.

Nerve Gas: VX

Iraq appears to have turned its research efforts toward VX nerve gas in 1985. VX is the most toxic of all known chemical warfare agents. Its effects on the body are similar to those of sarin and tabun, paralyzing the nervous system and causing convulsions and rapid death when contact occurs. A very small amount on the skin (10 milligrams) is enough to kill a man. VX is an oily liquid that may persist in the environment for weeks or longer, thereby posing a major skin absorption risk.

Iraq admitted that it had six or seven research teams working on VX, and production is known to have taken place in 1987-88 and possibly until 1990. A team of U.N. experts concluded that there was clear evidence that Iraq had the capability to produce the agent because the Muthanna State Establishment, as early as 1984, had done industrial scale organophosphorous synthesis, a process much more difficult than that required to produce VX. One plant, in Dhia'a, was reconfigured to produce necessary components for VX by 1988. Iraq also admitted producing and procuring vast amounts of precursor agents for VX, including 58 tons of the chemical choline, a key VX ingredient. Iraq claimed that nearly all of its precursors had been destroyed by aerial bombing during the first Gulf War, and that what remained was secretly destroyed in the summer of 1991.

UNSCOM estimated that by 1991, Iraq could have produced between 50 and 100 tons of VX gas. By 1998, UNSCOM estimated that Iraq was capable of producing 200 tons. Iraq at first told UNSCOM that it had only produced 240 kilograms of VX, but in 1996 admitted that it had produced 3.9 tons. Iraq provided documents stating that 2.4 tons of VX were produced in 1988 and the remainder in 1990. Iraq explained this low volume by claiming that it had scaled-up all its chemical weapons processes at al-Muthanna except VX, a claim UNSCOM rejected as incompatible with Iraq's massive R&D efforts. Iraq also claimed that it later abandoned the VX project because the gas was of poor quality and was unstable. Iraq never backed up its claims with verifiable evidence, so the total quantity of VX that Iraq produced is not known.

Total Chemical Agent Produced

Iraq claimed that its chemical weapons program yielded a total of 3,859 tons of useable agents. Iraq insisted that it only weaponized 3,315 tons and consumed 80% of those weaponized agents during the war with Iran. The true extent of Iraq's production and holdings of chemical agents has never been fully verified.

II. Precursors

Chemicals that serve as ingredients for making chemical weapon agents are known as "precursors." In the early stages of its chemical weapon program Iraq imported the necessary precursors. However, from 1986 to 1990, Iraq constructed and operated numerous plants and facilities (such as Fallujah 1, 2 and 3) for producing precursors on its own. Iraq told UNSCOM that during Iraq's entire chemical weapon program, which lasted from the mid-1970s through at least 1991, it produced and procured 20,150 tons of key precursor chemicals. Of that amount, Iraq claimed to have used 14,500 tons to produce chemical agents or other key precursor chemicals, leaving 5,650 tons of precursors unaccounted for. However, Iraq also claimed that only 3,915 tons of precursor agents remained inside the country as of January 1991, a noticeable discrepancy. Of that 3,915 tons, a total of 2,850 tons were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision and the rest was said by Iraq to have been destroyed during the first Gulf War or destroyed by Iraq unilaterally.

III. Weaponization

After a chemical warfare agent is produced, it is loaded into a munition so that it can be fired at an adversary. This step is called weaponization.

Tear Gas and Mustard Gas

Iraq admitted that it deployed CS tear gas in both RPG-7 rocket propelled grenades and in 82mm and 120mm mortar shells. CS was also used to fill 250- and 500-gauge aerial bombs. In addition, Iraq admitted that it used both 250- and 500-gauge aerial bombs for mustard gas deployment, as well as 155mm artillery shells. Documentary evidence was found showing that Iraq also filled DB-2 aerial bombs with mustard gas, although Iraq claims that it filled only a few bombs for testing purposes. UNSCOM managed to destroy 12,792 of the 13,000 155mm artillery shells filled with mustard gas that Iraq had declared as remaining after the first Gulf War ended; however, Iraq also declared that it had lost 550 of these shells. UNSCOM was never provided with any substantial evidence to corroborate this claim. A few such shells were destroyed by subsequent inspectors in 2002-2003, but many were still unaccounted for after the second Gulf War.

Sarin

Iraq filled thousands of munitions with sarin or its binary components. These included 122mm rockets, DB-2 and R-400 aerial bombs, and thirty special warheads for the domestically produced Al-Hussein missile (a SCUD variant). The Al-Hussein warheads were discovered and subsequently destroyed under UNSCOM supervision. Iraq also claimed that it unilaterally destroyed 45 additional special warheads that were filled with chemical agents, including binary sarin components.

VX

Iraq denied ever having weaponized VX. In June 1998, however, UNSCOM found evidence of VX contamination on fragments of missile warheads. Iraq never provided an adequate explanation for this evidence, insisting instead that weaponization never occurred. Iraq did admit filling three aerial bombs and one 122mm rocket warhead with VX, but claimed that this was only for storage and corrosion tests. Iraq said that the tests were failures due to the low purity and poor stability of the gas. U.N. experts concluded, however, that weaponization of VX presented no technical difficulty for Iraq and may have been done.

Total Munitions

Iraq declared to UNSCOM that at one time it held over 200,000 special munitions, either filled or unfilled, specifically designed for chemical or biological weapons. These included grenades, mortar shells, aerial bombs, artillery shells, rockets and missile warheads. Of those, Iraq claimed that it used or disposed of approximately 100,000 munitions filled with chemical weapons during the period of its war with Iran, which ended in 1988. With regard to its holdings as of January 1991, Iraq asserted that 127,941 filled and unfilled special munitions remained in the country. During the first Gulf War -- according to Iraq -- 41,998 munitions were destroyed by Allied bombing, and Iraq also said that it unilaterally destroyed 29,662 munitions after the first Gulf War. The remaining 56,281 special munitions were either destroyed or accounted for under UNSCOM supervision.

Iraq gained the ability to manufacture R-400 and DB-2 aerial bombs, chemical containers for 122mm rockets, and Al-Hussein missile warheads. Iraq had to import all other munition shells, but UNSCOM believed that Iraq also had the ability to empty conventional artillery shells and aerial bombs and refill them with chemical agents. Iraq had a wide array of munitions specially designed for chemical use, and some of them were used for more than one chemical agent.
Iraq's Chemical Weapon Program (http://www.iraqwatch.org/profiles/chemical.html)

AMMAN, Jordan (CNN) -- Jordanian authorities said Monday they have broken up an alleged al Qaeda plot that would have unleashed a deadly cloud of chemicals in the heart of Jordan's capital, Amman.

The plot would have been more deadly than anything al Qaeda has done before, including the September 11 attacks, according to the Jordanian government.

Among the alleged targets were the U.S. Embassy, the Jordanian prime minister's office and the headquarters of Jordanian intelligence.

U.S. intelligence officials expressed caution about whether the chemicals captured by Jordanian authorities were intended to create a "toxic cloud" chemical weapon, but they said the large quantities involved were at a minimum intended to create "massive explosions."

Officials said there is debate within the CIA and other U.S. agencies over whether the plotters were planning to kill innocent people using toxic chemicals.

At issue is the presence of a large quantity of sulfuric acid among the tons of chemicals seized by Jordanian authorities. Sulfuric acid can be used as a blister agent, but it more commonly can increase the size of conventional explosions, according to U.S. officials.

Nevertheless, U.S. intelligence officials called the capture of tons of chemicals that together could create several large conventional explosions "a big deal."

The plot was within days of being carried out, Jordanian officials said, when security forces broke it up April 20.

In a nighttime raid in Amman, Jordanian security forces moved in on the terrorist cell. After the shooting stopped, four men were dead. Jordanian authorities said. They said at least three others were arrested, including Azmi Jayyousi, the cell's suspected ringleader, whom Jordanian intelligence alleges was responsible for planning and recruiting.

On a confession shown on state-run Jordanian television, Jayyousi said he took orders from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a suspected terrorist leader who has been linked to al Qaeda and whom U.S. officials have said is behind some attacks in Iraq.

"I took explosives courses, poisons high level, then I pledged allegiance to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, to obey him without any questioning," Jayyousi said.

Jordanian intelligence suspects Jayyousi returned from Iraq in January after a meeting with al-Zarqawi in which they allegedly plotted to hit the three targets in Amman.

In a series of raids, the Jordanians said, they seized 20 tons of chemicals and numerous explosives. Also seized were three trucks equipped with specially modified plows, apparently designed to crash through security barricades.

The first alleged target was the Jordanian intelligence headquarters. The alleged blast was intended to be a big one.

"According to my experience as an explosives expert, the whole of the Intelligence Department will be destroyed, and nothing of it will remain, nor anything surrounding it," Jayyousi said.

Details of the alleged plot were shown Monday on Jordanian television, including graphics of how the cell apparently intended to carry out the attack.

In an videotape shown on Jordanian TV, Hussein Sharif said Jayyousi recruited him as a suicide bomber.

"The aim, Azmi told me, was to execute an operation to strike Jordan and the Hashemite Royal family, a war against the crusaders and infidels," Sharif said. "Azmi told me that this will be the first chemical attack that al Qaeda will execute."

Jordanian authorities said the attack would have mixed a combination of 71 lethal chemicals, which they said has never been done before, including blistering agents to cause third-degree burns, nerve gas and choking agents.

CNN.com - Jordan says major al Qaeda plot disrupted - Apr 26, 2004 (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/26/jordan.terror/)

NRO: Missing Iraqi Weapons Prove War Was Worthwhile
Wait a minute -- so there were WMDs in Iraq? The Kerry campaign, the media, assorted pundits, and others are making much of the disappearance of the 380 tons of explosives from the al Qaqaa storage facility south of Baghdad. According to the IAEA, the U.N. watchdog agency now apparently in the service of the Democratic National Committee, some of the explosives could be used to detonate nuclear weapons. Wow — nuclear-weapon components were in Iraq? Shouldn't the headline be, "Saddam Had 'Em?"
The opposition really needs to get its story straight. The president cannot be taken to task for inventing the Iraqi WMD threat, and simultaneously disparaged for not securing Saddam's dangerous WMD-related materials.

The cache at al Qaqaa was not the only WMD-related material in the news recently. Another IAEA report came out two weeks ago that did not get as much play. According to this account, dual-use equipment that could be used to make nuclear weapons was taken from various locations inside Iraq. The Duelfer Report speculated this equipment could have been taken during the chaos of the invasion. The equipment was "professionally looted" by another account, and may have gone to Iran or Syria. Isn't it significant that equipment that could be used to make nuclear weapons was there in the first place? Don't these constitute components of a WMD program?

As well, if CBS wants to recycle old news in an attempt to influence the election, how about this story: 1.77 metric tons of low-enriched uranium and other nuclear material at the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center (Saddam's main nuclear research and development center) was secured by the United States and flown out of the country last July. According to the Energy Department this material could have been used to make a radiological dispersion device (a.k.a. a dirty bomb) or "diverted to support a nuclear weapons program." The only thing we found in Iraq that was more hazardous than this haul was Saddam Hussein. The United States was able successfully to deny this dangerous material to terrorists, rogue states or anyone else. This good news story dropped like a stone when it came out. And unlike most of the hype of the last few days, this story has the benefit of being true.

The missing explosives from al Qaqaa also raise the possibility that other WMD-related materials met the same fate. The IAEA had seen the al Qaqaa material in January 2003, but by the time U.S. troops showed up on April 10, they had disappeared. The dual-use technologies mentioned in the other IAEA report also had been moved or looted. This suggests that still other WMDs and related technologies might have been given or taken away in the days leading up to the war, or shortly after the Coalition attacks began. It is widely believed, though not conclusively proved, that much of this went to Syria. The Iraq Survey Group interviewed Iraqi agents who claimed to have helped moved the WMD materials. This charge was repeated by David Kay when he left the ISG earlier this year. The Blix Report found 1,000 tons of chemical weapons missing from Iraq, and last May this column discussed a planned al Qaeda attack in Jordan involving 20 tons of chemicals. The attack was broken up, and the subsequent investigation showed strong links to Syria. Connect your own dots.

So between the al Qaqaa explosives, the dual-use equipment, the Tuwaitha nuclear material, the missing chemical weapons, and the Syrian connection, it sounds like the WMD rationale is much stronger than most critics give it credit for. One can only imagine what Saddam would have done given the chance to put them all together. These are just a few reasons why Operation Iraqi Freedom was the right war, in the right place, at the right time.

Flip-flopping On WMD? - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/27/opinion/main651796.shtml)

BITEYOASS

02-16-2010, 11:36 AM

The Tea Party that you see on TV is the one hijacked by Dick Armey and some other congressional scumbags who are now lobbyists. Originally it was a libertarian movement protesting against high taxes and the corrupt banking system of this country.

FORD

02-16-2010, 12:44 PM

FORD, I have alot of respect for you...I actually do.

But every argument you make goes out the window when you start in with this BCE crap.

So you deny that the systematic destruction of this country began in 1981, and has continued ever since, under the BCE presidents Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr?

As I said above, Clinton and team DLC aren't innocent either. But then, isn't he Poppy's best buddy now?

sadaist

02-16-2010, 02:49 PM

But that's at the very heart of their delusion though: Unless you were a white middle-class male, the 40s and 50s pretty much SUCKED!!

They long for a time when minorities had absolutely no say in government, were barely seen and almost never heard. THAT's the America they want "back".

Fuck them. :fufu:

That's what you think of when "simpler, better time" comes to mind? Minorities? People want to leave their front doors unlocked, neighbors being neighborly, kids being able to walk to school without worrying about abductions, milkman coming by twice a week, knowing the mailman's first name, when Willie Mays & Mickey Mantle were American heroes, buying a Coke for .10 cents without a .35 cent sin tax, flying the American flag out of pride and respect for your country, if you got fat & got sick from it that was your own damn fault, personal responsibility and not a nanny state where money is robbed from the people who do choose to work to take care of every person who chooses not to.

Now, if in your mind you envision that as all white people living in harmony like that...it's you that have an issue with racism.

BigBadBrian

02-16-2010, 03:03 PM

So you deny that the systematic destruction of this country began in 1981

I think it began about a year ago.

FORD

02-16-2010, 03:15 PM

That's what you think of when "simpler, better time" comes to mind? Minorities? People want to leave their front doors unlocked, neighbors being neighborly, kids being able to walk to school without worrying about abductions, milkman coming by twice a week, knowing the mailman's first name, when Willie Mays & Mickey Mantle were American heroes, buying a Coke for .10 cents without a .35 cent sin tax, flying the American flag out of pride and respect for your country, if you got fat & got sick from it that was your own damn fault, personal responsibility and not a nanny state where money is robbed from the people who do choose to work to take care of every person who chooses not to.

Now, if in your mind you envision that as all white people living in harmony like that...it's you that have an issue with racism.

Ironic that you would mention Willie Mays in a post meant to detract from the racism of those times. You do realize that Mays might have had an even better record in major league baseball, if he hadn't been segregated out into the "Negro leagues" in his early years, right? Fortunately for him, that bullshit ended in time for him to have the career he did, but how many great players did we never know about, due to this goddamn hate and stupidity? Surely there were other players of the same caliber as Jackie Robinson or Willie Mays who never got to "cross over" to play ball with the "white boys" :(

jhale667

02-16-2010, 03:22 PM

That's what you think of when "simpler, better time" comes to mind? Minorities?

I'm just saying, it wasn't THAT great a time for everyone. Perhaps you can't relate. But you're delusional if you think institutionalized racism wasn't RAMPANT (and mostly overlooked by the beneficiaries of it) during the time...so, no it was not better overall.

People want to leave their front doors unlocked, neighbors being neighborly, kids being able to walk to school without worrying about abductions, milkman coming by twice a week, knowing the mailman's first name, when Willie Mays & Mickey Mantle were American heroes, buying a Coke for .10 cents without a .35 cent sin tax,

Mostly irrelevant to the discussion at hand, but still don't see how Dems or Obama took any of THAT away. You're kind of off base there.

flying the American flag out of pride and respect for your country,

What the fuck OTHER reason should it fly for? And who stopped?

if you got fat & got sick from it that was your own damn fault, personal responsibility and not a nanny state where money is robbed from the people who do choose to work to take care of every person who chooses not to.

And again, who's talking about that? Certainly no one espousing health care reform.

Now, if in your mind you envision that as all white people living in harmony like that...it's you that have an issue with racism.

I have an issue with people acting like those days were all that - when in reality they were far from it. Just stating facts. Nice try, though.

jhale667

02-16-2010, 03:26 PM

I think it began about a year ago.

More indication you're not paid to think...:hee:

FORD

02-16-2010, 03:34 PM

More indication you're not paid to think...:hee:

Maybe he's paid NOT to think? Seems like a lot of his posts since his recent return resemble scripted talking points.

jhale667

02-16-2010, 03:40 PM

Maybe he's paid NOT to think? Seems like a lot of his posts since his recent return resemble scripted talking points.

True, though honestly I thought he was just parroting FAUX as usual...:biggrin:

sadaist

02-16-2010, 03:45 PM

Mostly irrelevant to the discussion at hand, but still don't see how Dems or Obama took any of THAT away. You're kind of off base there.

I have an issue with people acting like those days were all that - when in reality they were far from it. Just stating facts. Nice try, though.

Never said the Dems or Obama took that away. If you go to my original post, I stated I believed some people were against any type of "Change" by the government, in the false belief that somehow stopping change and holding a status-quo we would revert back to some magical, mystical time.

jhale667

02-16-2010, 03:57 PM

Never said the Dems or Obama took that away. If you go to my original post, I stated I believed some people were against any type of "Change" by the government, in the false belief that somehow stopping change and holding a status-quo we would revert back to some magical, mystical time.

Well then, you may as well go ahead and say it - the teabaggers are IDIOTS if they think maintaining the status quo will bring the 50s back.

sadaist

02-16-2010, 04:49 PM

Well then, you may as well go ahead and say it - the teabaggers are IDIOTS if they think maintaining the status quo will bring the 50s back.

What about the times where you could go to the local greasy spoon diner, have breakfast, smoke a cigarette & enjoy your coffee?

Due to the government, we now get:

Non-grease, no transfat, no MSG, grease substitute.

No smoking indoors or withing 50 feet of front door.

Coffee that is lukewarm so that we don't spill and burn ourselves.

And that's if you can even find any mom & pop type restaurant still able to operate in this economy. Taxed and regulated right out of business.

I suppose it's in the name of saving us from ourselves. Change we can believe in. And that's not on Obama. That's on the whole damned lot of them.

Guitar Shark

02-16-2010, 04:55 PM

What about the times where you could go to the local greasy spoon diner, have breakfast, smoke a cigarette & enjoy your coffee?

Due to the government, we now get:

Non-grease, no transfat, no MSG, grease substitute.

No smoking indoors or withing 50 feet of front door.

Coffee that is lukewarm so that we don't spill and burn ourselves.

And that's if you can even find any mom & pop type restaurant still able to operate in this economy. Taxed and regulated right out of business.

I suppose it's in the name of saving us from ourselves. Change we can believe in. And that's not on Obama. That's on the whole damned lot of them.

You can thank corporate culture for forcing mom & pop restaurants out of business. This "taxed and regulated right out of business" stuff is largely a bunch of crap. The bigger problem is the availability of cheap, mass produced fast food and other chain restaurants that have squeezed mom and pop out of business. Hard to blame government for that when the consumers are the ones making the choice.

FORD

02-16-2010, 05:30 PM

Yep. I can remember when Olympia didn't even have a goddamn McDonalds (first one in the area was built in the mid 70's). And the burgers were much better at the local drive through that was here before. Still are, actually.

jhale667

02-16-2010, 05:34 PM

What about the times where you could go to the local greasy spoon diner, have breakfast, smoke a cigarette & enjoy your coffee?

Due to the government, we now get:

Non-grease, no transfat, no MSG, grease substitute.

No smoking indoors or withing 50 feet of front door.

Coffee that is lukewarm so that we don't spill and burn ourselves.

And that's if you can even find any mom & pop type restaurant still able to operate in this economy. Taxed and regulated right out of business.

I suppose it's in the name of saving us from ourselves. Change we can believe in. And that's not on Obama. That's on the whole damned lot of them.

Think Guitar Shark already summed up why there are so few Mom & Pop establishments left, but to one of your other points -

I for one am glad I don't have to smell your nasty-ass cigarette smoke while I'm trying to EAT. Or work, for that matter. THAT's actually progress! :D

I already had a "no smoking within 50 ft of" my place rule! :tongue0011:

PETE'S BROTHER

02-16-2010, 05:57 PM

You can thank corporate culture for forcing mom & pop restaurants out of business. This "taxed and regulated right out of business" stuff is largely a bunch of crap. The bigger problem is the availability of cheap, mass produced fast food and other chain restaurants that have squeezed mom and pop out of business. Hard to blame government for that when the consumers are the ones making the choice.

eh......the large "monopoly" chains certainly do receive better tax breaks from our "corporate culture" government than the mom and pops we used to have. it makes it impossible to choose bev's diner when she has to work at mc donalds after she couldn't compete with 99 cent shit that shouldn't be "regulated" as food.

jhale667

02-16-2010, 06:19 PM

Let's also not forget Mom & Pop establishments didn't get tax breaks for outsourcing American jobs, either...

standin

02-16-2010, 07:08 PM

That's what you think of when "simpler, better time" comes to mind? Minorities? People want to leave their front doors unlocked, neighbors being neighborly, kids being able to walk to school without worrying about abductions, milkman coming by twice a week, knowing the mailman's first name, when Willie Mays & Mickey Mantle were American heroes, buying a Coke for .10 cents without a .35 cent sin tax, flying the American flag out of pride and respect for your country, if you got fat & got sick from it that was your own damn fault, personal responsibility and not a nanny state where money is robbed from the people who do choose to work to take care of every person who chooses not to.

Now, if in your mind you envision that as all white people living in harmony like that...it's you that have an issue with racism.

<object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UacUR7bPnMM&hl=en_US&fs=1&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UacUR7bPnMM&hl=en_US&fs=1&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object>

Blacks were also very different, but there was no question about the existence of racism. This was in the days of Jim Crow, and we thought blacks were an inferior race, period. They were okay, if they "kept their place." We thought they could work hard, but wouldn't if they could avoid it. Nobody seemed to notice that everybody they knew of any color was the same way.

Then there were our opinions of foreigners, none of which we had ever met.
Racism and World War II: Personal Memories, 1940s, by Carter Jefferson - MemoryArchive (http://www.memoryarchive.org/en/Racism_and_World_War_II:_Personal_Memories,_1940s, _by_Carter_Jefferson)

FORD

02-16-2010, 07:31 PM

Good fucking god! Who produced that cartoon, the KKK?

That's the most racist goddamn thing I've ever seen. Even the war propaganda cartoons with the ridiculous Japanese and German stereotypes weren't that blatant. :barf:

standin

02-16-2010, 07:44 PM

Southern blacks used "peckerwood" as a derogatory term to describe poor and/or rural Southern whites. A dictionary of African-American slang explains that the term "peckerwood" had its origins in the word "woodpecker." Blacks saw blackbirds as a symbol of themselves and the contrasting redheaded woodpecker as a representation of whites. Eventually, the word "woodpecker" was inverted to become "peckerwood" in an attempt to hide the meaning and origin of the term. Later, peckerwood came to be used in the North as well, as a general description for white people.

At some point, peckerwood evolved into a term used to describe white prison inmates. In prison slang, a peckerwood or "wood" was a white inmate who was willing to fight to avoid being raped or robbed. Over time, white inmates appropriated the term peckerwood and made it a source of pride.

Currently, the term peckerwood is used to refer both to white youths with loose ties to white power gangs in and out of prison, as well as to actual skinhead gangs who have incorporated "peckerwood" into their name. The various Peckerwood gangs appear to be concentrated largely in California, where they participate in the methamphetamine trade and have ties to other white supremacist gangs such as the Nazi Low Riders. Peckerwood gang members have been charged with a variety of crimes ranging from dealing drugs to attempted murder. Many gang members sport Peckerwood tattoos to display their affiliations.
A Visual Database of Extremist Symbols, Logos and Tattoos (http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/Peckerwood.asp)

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sadaist

02-16-2010, 07:45 PM

I for one am glad I don't have to smell your nasty-ass cigarette smoke while I'm trying to EAT. Or work, for that matter. THAT's actually progress! :D

I already had a "no smoking within 50 ft of" my place rule! :tongue0011:

Good for you. Glad you could impose your will on others. I wonder if anyone in earshot of your guitar playing are as offended as you were being close to someones smoke. You are polluting their air space with your sound.

I remember when my grandparents would take us to a restaurant, listening to them decide where to go. Let's go to place A...no, that place is too smoky, lets go to place B. If smoke is driving away your customers, you can choose to not allow it. But the government mandating it is bullshit. I can understand in an airplane. But even then, what if on long distance flights they offered a smoking flight & a non-smoking flight? I wonder if they could sell the smoking seats at a higher rate. But that would be capitalism, and we can't have that.

Guitar Shark

02-16-2010, 08:11 PM

If smoke is driving away your customers, you can choose to not allow it. But the government mandating it is bullshit.

What about the people who work in the store? Their choice is to either work in a hazardous environment, or quit and try to find a different job. Not the easiest thing some of the time, like... now for example.

jhale667

02-16-2010, 09:50 PM

Good for you. Glad you could impose your will on others.

Yeah, and I happen to pay for that privilege, thanks. My place, my rules. Don't like it? GTFO.

But you're just being an idiot here...

I wonder if anyone in earshot of your guitar playing are as offended as you were being close to someones smoke. You are polluting their air space with your sound.

Wrong. They're willing volunteers, moron.
Besides that being a dipshit analogy, people that may potentially be "offended" by my playing generally don't show up to the gig in the first place...fuck, you're stupid for even trying to go there with this one. :fufu: Hater much?

Another factoid: So far studies linking second-hand exposure to my playing to CANCER have being inconclusive.

Nice try, Asshole. :lmao:

Seshmeister

02-16-2010, 10:11 PM

That's what you think of when "simpler, better time" comes to mind? Minorities? People want to leave their front doors unlocked, neighbors being neighborly, kids being able to walk to school without worrying about abductions, milkman coming by twice a week, knowing the mailman's first name, when Willie Mays & Mickey Mantle were American heroes, buying a Coke for .10 cents without a .35 cent sin tax, flying the American flag out of pride and respect for your country, if you got fat & got sick from it that was your own damn fault, personal responsibility and not a nanny state where money is robbed from the people who do choose to work to take care of every person who chooses not to.

Now, if in your mind you envision that as all white people living in harmony like that...it's you that have an issue with racism.

Now the reality of the 50s and 60s.

People able to leave their doors unlocked because they didn't have anything to steal, kids still almost never get abducted it's a false fear, having to spend ages going to various shops most days to get your weekly groceries, having to rely and wait for post instead of instant free email, being much much poorer in real terms and having far far less products to buy, being brought home in coffin covered in a flag from wars that the government forced you to fight in and then lost or at best drew with tens of thousands killed for nothing, lower life expectancy and quality of life, crappy TV, women unable to do much apart from bringing up kids and institutionalized racism where states say who you can marry and where you can sit. Politics knee deep in corruption, political assassinations and organized crime commonplace.

There's more, that's just for starters.

sadaist

02-16-2010, 11:00 PM

My place, my rules. Don't like it? GTFO.

And owners of tax paying, employee hiring, service providing establishments should not be afforded that same privilege why exactly?

Don't ever open a bar, restaurant, coffee house, airline, bus, train, arena, stadium, park, arcade, shop, or anything else. Even though it will be "your place", it will be Uncle Sams rules.

GTFO
idiot
moron
dipshit
stupid
Asshole
Hater much?

LOL. Me the hater? Try boxer shorts bro, they won't bunch up on you as easily.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/ultragig/Pantiesinabunch.jpg

sadaist

02-16-2010, 11:03 PM

What about the people who work in the store? Their choice is to either work in a hazardous environment, or quit and try to find a different job. Not the easiest thing some of the time, like... now for example.

And there is the key right there..."Their choice". Not Uncle Sam deciding for them.

Blackflag

02-16-2010, 11:21 PM

This thread is gross. So, essentially, the talking head made a video pandering the bold statement that racism is bad. What's next? His opinion that babies are cute and nuclear war should be avoided? But then you all eat it up, because you, also, think racism is bad and babies are cute. :)

And what the fuck does any of this have to these "tea party" people? What I'm reading is that you don't necessarily disagree with what they've espoused, but you don't like them...because they're racists. Because the talking head said so.

Holy shit. Seriously?

jhale667

02-16-2010, 11:22 PM

And owners of tax paying, employee hiring, service providing establishments should not be afforded that same privilege why exactly?

Don't ever open a bar, restaurant, coffee house, airline, bus, train, arena, stadium, park, arcade, shop, or anything else. Even though it will be "your place", it will be Uncle Sams rules.

Your argument is still idiotic, because hearing protection is cheap. See anybody at bars in gas masks lately? Please. Try harder. :tongue0011:

Blackflag

02-16-2010, 11:23 PM

And we've really got to stop the "_____ much" thing. You guys are too fucking old for that - period.

jhale667

02-16-2010, 11:25 PM

STFU, dad. :rolleyes:

Blackflag

02-16-2010, 11:27 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're an adult, too.

jhale667

02-16-2010, 11:31 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're an adult, too.

Yeah yeah, I know I am but what are you...:tongue0011:

Guitar Shark

02-17-2010, 01:55 AM

And there is the key right there..."Their choice". Not Uncle Sam deciding for them.

Please. Breathe secondhand smoke, or be unemployed. This is your idea of a choice worth protecting?

Seshmeister

02-17-2010, 02:11 AM

Or choose not to work in specially licensed smoking bars with good ventilation systems and work in any other place.

Seshmeister

02-17-2010, 02:14 AM

According to the hard line anti smoking argument we'll all need to stop shitting because it's not fair on sewage workers to have to suffer the smell and if they don't like the smell they can't work in another job.

jacksmar

02-19-2010, 07:24 AM

FORD, I have a lot of respect for you...I actually do.

But every argument you make goes out the window when you start in with this BCE crap.

FORD do us all a favor and pull a Christoper Reeve. Get off your high fucking horse.

Actually, never mind. Keep up the bullshit. Lemming "CORPS MEN" like you and Robyn Blumner will keep a shit stain like FBHO to one term.