PDA

View Full Version : Full Metal Jacket



Kristy
02-16-2010, 12:55 AM
This movie made me think of Oliver’s Stone’s Platoon, a film that presented the Vietnam War as America’s wild west shoot out between deluded righteousness and human atrocity. Then, came John Irving’s Hamburger Hill where Viet Nam was nothing but a killing ground all of the American small town virtues transported straight into the depths of hell itself. Now here comes Kubrick and his definitive statement, who, in two extremely different films, his brilliant Paths Of Glory (1958) and Dr Strangelove (1964) boldly animated the [his] argument that war is pretty much fucking stupid.

Seeing this movie for the first time last night, I might not have expected Full Metal Jacket to present me a novel argument against war, but for fuck’s sake, I was looking to Stanley Kubrick, one of film’s greatest directors, to give me that argument a fresh set of images, a fresh story to grip the fucking imagination and fuel my moral nerves. What a major disappointment. Just like every other ‘Nam movie that was the hype of the 80’s, Full Metal Jacket portrays the war as an American tragedy, a farce of self-deception which irredeemably tainted the American survivors with a degree of brutalized guilt. 58.000 US dead (estimated) and nearly two million Vietnamese tells me that the war was less then an occasion of American hand-wringing than an absolute disaster for Vietnam.

http://www.onlygoodmovies.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/full-metal-jacket.jpg

I was surprised, however, that the disproportionally large numbers of blacks in the US Army were more likely to be represented by a token snatch of Motown on the soundtrack than by any substantial role – and omission of which the “intellectual” Full Metal Jacket is more guilty, oddly enough, than “populist” Platoon ever could hope to be. Kubrick’s ‘Nam then, is a war where white men fuck up royal against semi-invisible slope-eyed hordes armed only with an AK-47, a handful of rice and one fuck of an fanatical death wish (can you say Fallujah?) So is this Kubrick’s point? That how could the world’s richest, most technologically advanced super power have lost? Probably because its level of self-belief was either too hare-brained (“Inside every gook there’s a good American trying to get out!” Barks a typical brass-hat officer) or by instilling a training program which crassly ill-prepared recruits (draftees) for what terror war is really like.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WzrDBWcU85s/SjcfEXq3rVI/AAAAAAAACH0/nK86Wm2JttA/s400/full%2Bmetal%2Bjacket.jpg

Okay, so this movie does excel in the first-half in which Kubrick gives us a grainy documentary-style account of the US Marine training from the first haircut to the final production of a honed, unquestioning killing machine in green fatigues – or at least that’s Kubrick’s ideal. As the film is being conducted by the manic Gunnery Sergeant Hartman (what an outstanding performance from genuine Viet Vet Ralph Lee Emery) this training fails the marine in the filed of combat as surely as it flips out a hapless recruit, Private Pyle, in a grossly over-the-top scene straight out of Kubrick’s horror flick The Shining. Yes, for Kubrick, whose only contact with much of the outside world during the latter part of his career of being bound to his Hertfordshire estate, can only tell us that war is weird.

http://seanmunoz.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/fullmetaljacket_2.jpg

The second-half of this film, set in 1968’s Battle Of Hue, then switches nerviness from an effective pseudo-TV newscast with scenes of stylized spookiness which does nothing more then merely announce that Kubrick can’t settle on a persuasively consistent tone for his audience. Yes, Kubrick’s Viet Nam is a tense, wasteful, and horrible one but I’m not so fooled with easy scripted heroes to sugar the bitter pill. Ultimately, Full Metal Jacket told me nothing new – nor does it tell me nothing old with the inventiveness, intelligence and conviction I had a right to expect.

LEFTY is Gar's Bitch
02-16-2010, 01:37 AM
i love this movie.robin williams is goddam funny in this one.
whats a gook?

Doctor Dude
02-16-2010, 01:39 AM
Without trying to get into too deep detail and analysis on the subject, of the three films you mentioned I find Hamburger Hill to be the most honest and powerful.

Full Metal Jacket is a great comedy film, if you exclude everything after Gunnery Sgt. Hartmann is killed. I found some of the writing and acting to be uneven, and the narration was especially annoying.

As far as Platoon goes..... I thought it sucked donkey balls.

Kristy, have you seen all three films?

Hardrock69
02-16-2010, 02:17 AM
Lefty, a gook is one of those bundles of rice you can buy at the Chinese food store.
Just go to your nearest Chinese food joint and tell them you want to buy a gook, but be sure to tell them you want extra kimche on it.

Hardrock69
02-16-2010, 02:38 AM
Kristy, your intellect is superior. Men should worship the ground you walk on and lick your boots.:notworthy::notworthy:http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/customavatars/avatar7609_15.gif
:confused13::stoned-smiley::jumping0041::band::jammin::rockit:

Have you ever read the story about how Ralph Emery got the part?

He was hired as an advisor, and Kubrick supposedly was watching videotape of him with some recruits. After witnessing Emery curse for like 12 minutes straight without stopping or repeating himself, Kubrick decided Emery was the right man for the job.

lesfunk
02-16-2010, 11:24 AM
Apocalypse Now Rules over them all. Patton is also a magnificent war film.
I never understood the fawning over Platoon. Platoon, like all Oliver Stone films, is way overrated.
I enjoyed Full Metal Jacket even if Kristy did not.

BITEYOASS
02-16-2010, 11:33 AM
Boo-fuckin-hoo Kristy! Hell, when I was in the USMC, EVERYBODY loved that movie! About half of the unit had a DVD of "Full Metal Jacket"! So cry me a fuckin river about your racism bullshit. To me, it was the best depiction of the Vietnam war and boot camp that I've ever seen.

Terry
02-16-2010, 04:53 PM
Kristy, your intellect is superior. Men should worship the ground you walk on and lick your boots.:notworthy::notworthy:http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/customavatars/avatar7609_15.gif
:confused13::stoned-smiley::jumping0041::band::jammin::rockit:

Have you ever read the story about how Ralph Emery got the part?

He was hired as an advisor, and Kubrick supposedly was watching videotape of him with some recruits. After witnessing Emery curse for like 12 minutes straight without stopping or repeating himself, Kubrick decided Emery was the right man for the job.


Kubrick told stories in interviews about how natural and spontaneous Emery was, and how that induced Kubrick to just let Emery loose and let him verbally riff and improvise once shooting began.

Emery, in character, would yell off-the-cuff things things like, "Lawrence!? I don't like the name Lawrence! That's a name for faggots and sailors!!" Kubrick later said that Emery made up about 50% of what ended up in the film on the spot as cameras were rolling.

Racist under/overtones in the movie? I suppose. Chalk a certain amount of that up to the context of the times the film was made, and the context of the Vietnam War itself. No more egregious than latter-day productions of fictionally-based films dealing with pre-1950s/1960s timeframes that utilize such cinematic conventions as the imaginary black friend or the white bigot with the heart of gold. Censoring or inventing past attitudes might make people feel more hunky-dory in the darkness of the cinema while the film is rolling...

I mean, would it have been equally "bad" for Kubrick to have pretended that racism wasn't a factor in Vietnam, or that black people didn't listen to Motown back then, or that the use of the word ****** (vile as that word is) didn't happen among soldiers back then? Whitewashing history might be politically correct, but not necessarily accurate.

Seshmeister
02-16-2010, 05:26 PM
It was made nearly 25 years ago.

The first half to me is so much better than the second. Never noticed any race thing going on. There is a fashion now to go back and wonder why there weren't enough black people in films.

I think part of it is that actors in Hollywood movies are drawn from the US, UK and Canada. Without looking it up I think the demographic for that would be something like only 1 in 8 black people back in the 80s?

Nowadays we get used in advertising and other media for it to be closer to 50-50 so these films look slightly odd.

Guitar Shark
02-16-2010, 05:33 PM
Reasonable minds may differ. I always liked this movie.

Dan
02-16-2010, 06:02 PM
Sweet As Movie.:D

Hardrock69
02-16-2010, 07:09 PM
Never get off the fucking boat!

Apocalypse Now (the expanded version) is my fave Vietnam era war movie of all time.
Though periodically when talking to my best friend on the phone, I am apt to shout suddenly "MAU! NU MAU!" at him (watch The Deer Hunter to catch the reference).

Patton is a kickass film, but what could one expect when the film is about the greatest military commander of the 20th century?

I named my Irish Setter General George Of Ardee back in 1973, in honor of Patton.

I always admired motherfuckers like him who kicked total fucking ass, while bending or ignoring the rules to get the fucking job done spectacularly!

My other two main childhood heroes were fictional, James T. Kirk and Dirty Harry Callahan, for the very same reason. They would totally annihilate anyone who stood in their way as they strove to accomplish their mission. Then, after the dust had settled, and all the shouting was over, they would get slapped on the wrist by their bosses, while at the same time being given the greatest commendations possible for saving the galaxy or the precinct or whatever.

Kristy
02-16-2010, 07:11 PM
Perhaps I have to go back and re-watch this film 3-4 times to see what Kubrick was trying to say besides having a anti-war stance throughout most of the movie. Emery's rendition of Sgt Hartman was outstanding and for me he was the only memorable character (I loved and hated him at the same time) yet Kubrick has him killed...:umm: And I do think there were some racist overtones whether Kubrick purposefully put that there for a subtle dramatic effect only confused me more as I watched it. Like I said, I'll go back and re-watch it again and see if I have a different angle on the film.


As for the rest of the 'Nam films of the 80's 'Hamburger Hill' seemed to be the most realistic although you can tell it was shot with a small budget and forgettable actors.

Kristy
02-16-2010, 07:15 PM
Patton is a kickass film, but what could one expect when the film is about the greatest military commander of the 20th century?

The writing in that movie alone was sheer genius.

Seshmeister
02-16-2010, 07:27 PM
Perhaps I have to go back and re-watch this film 3-4 times to see what Kubrick was trying to say besides having a anti-war stance throughout most of the movie.

I think at the end when he shoots the girl he is killing himself and representing the death of the innocence of his generation.

Or some shit...:baaa:

Nickdfresh
02-16-2010, 08:32 PM
I think at the end when he shoots the girl he is killing himself and representing the death of the innocence of his generation.

Or some shit...:baaa:

Or that PVT Pyle's killing of SGT Hartman was simply a crude manifestation of Freud's "(son) killing the father" archetype...

78/84 guy
02-16-2010, 09:08 PM
A new review of a 25 year old movie is a little over the top !! I think if he started it today it would be different in many ways !! Still one of the best. The first 40 minutes are fantastic. Platoon is shit I think. Oliver at his worst !! Over acted and overblown !!

Terry
02-16-2010, 10:53 PM
Perhaps I have to go back and re-watch this film 3-4 times to see what Kubrick was trying to say besides having a anti-war stance throughout most of the movie. Emery's rendition of Sgt Hartman was outstanding and for me he was the only memorable character (I loved and hated him at the same time) yet Kubrick has him killed...:umm: And I do think there were some racist overtones whether Kubrick purposefully put that there for a subtle dramatic effect only confused me more as I watched it. Like I said, I'll go back and re-watch it again and see if I have a different angle on the film.


As for the rest of the 'Nam films of the 80's 'Hamburger Hill' seemed to be the most realistic although you can tell it was shot with a small budget and forgettable actors.

You may well be right, or it just might be your take on the flick...maybe if I watched it again with your take in mind, I'd see the same things you did re: racist overtones.

FMJ is a bit schizophrenic, anyway. The basic training scenes ARE a bit more memorable than the second half of the film.

Even the best of the Vietnam films that came out from roughly 1977 to 1990 had bits about them that could have been left on the cutting room floor. I mean, even with many of those films being the result of some of the best director/actor/screenplay combinations cinema had to offer, in my book NONE of them come close to watching some of the better factual documentaries on Vietnam that contain raw footage of the real deal.

Seshmeister
02-16-2010, 11:00 PM
What about Casualties of War with little Marty McFly?

Not exactly a laugh a minute but once you got past the casting it was a pretty harrowing film as I remember.

Terry
02-16-2010, 11:09 PM
What about Casualties of War with little Marty McFly?

Not exactly a laugh a minute but once you got past the casting it was a pretty harrowing film as I remember.

Well, the thing of THAT one was I never COULD get past the casting of McFly...he just didn't quite have the chops to pull the role off, and his being in nearly every scene kind of emphasized that.

Bit of a shame, because DePalma has that incredible ability to set up those trademark panoramic shots of his, and it WAS a pretty harrowing story. I wouldn't say it was a bad film, but the combination of McFly and the film being released at the tail end of a decade + of Vietnam movies kind of left it one peg below Apocalypse Now and Platoon for me in terms of ranking order.

I mean, fuck, by the time Casualties was released I'd seen so many goddamn Vietnam movies that I was having 'Nam flaskbacks myself...and I'd never even been there, you know?

Kristy
02-17-2010, 12:58 AM
I loved this scene:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/t8Nf1MK7lts&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/t8Nf1MK7lts&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Nitro Express
02-17-2010, 01:50 AM
My uncle served under Patton in the third army. He was a bad ass and had the knife a German prisoner pulled out of his jackboot and knifed him in the arm with. The German of course got bayonetted by my uncle. He also had a German Lugar. He said he saw Patton several times up front observing the situation. He was not the general who hid where it was safe. He told us some cool stories about the Battle of the Bulge. After Germany surrendered he was an MP and had Eisenhower pass through his checkpoint.

Nitro Express
02-17-2010, 02:06 AM
Lee R. Ermy makes Full Metal Jacket. The movie would be boring as hell without those great boot camp scenes. I think Kubrick was having some fun with the movie more than trying to make any kind of statement. When they hit Vietnam it's all so cliche like the street whores going "fucky sucky, love you long time". Then you have the Tet Offensive in Hue. That's pretty much the movie.

The lesson of Vietnam is you don't win wars until a man with a rifle clean up the enemy on the ground and secures the country. Charlie was willing to lose more people than we were. Nixon and Kissinger thought they could bomb them into the stone age but they just dug in. Douglas McArther warned never to fight a land battle in Asia because it was impossible to win without using nukes. You don't win wars with bombs. We are learning this again. You will never have victory until and man with a rifle mops it up and we never mopped up Vietnam. We bombed the shit out of it, Cambodia, and Laos but never won because a man with a rifle couldn't mop it up.

Nitro Express
02-17-2010, 02:10 AM
If you really want to know what Vietnam was about read The Iron Mountain Report. The US became a war economy after World War II and we needed to feed it. It's all in the report and war was determined to have many macro benefits to the United States.

Seshmeister
02-17-2010, 02:22 AM
Which is so many other countries in the world see the US as a danger. To justify the US military economy threats and wars must be maintained or if need be, created.

Without the(hugely exaggerated) Russian threat something else had to be found.

Diamondjimi
02-17-2010, 02:28 AM
Full Metal Jacket is my fav. Vietnam war movie. True, the first half is better and more memorable than the second half. But a great film nonetheless...

Nitro Express
02-17-2010, 05:59 AM
Which is so many other countries in the world see the US as a danger. To justify the US military economy threats and wars must be maintained or if need be, created.

Without the(hugely exaggerated) Russian threat something else had to be found.

McNamera wanted a study done on a post war economy and a special think tank of various people was put together. They looked at using the military for peaceful humanitarian projects, they looked at space exploration but in the end they decided war was the most useful. It's all in The Iron Mountain Report.

Put it this way, my brother in law who works for a major military contractor just bought a bigger home. Business is good.

So yeah, whether people want to admit it or not the US is currently a war economy. Military hardware is our biggest product right now. We make some cars, some commercial aircraft and that's about it. We've outsourced everything else pretty much.

Basically the US is a broke superpower with the biggest military on the planet. We are using it currently to control the oil so we can blackmail the rest of the world into using our dollars.

Nitro Express
02-17-2010, 06:03 AM
That being said, the US can mess with lesser powers but it can't mix it up with another nuclear superpower. Nobody wins so the cold war never ended. There are just more players and economic warfare is used more. Computer hacking is also part of this new war.

Hardrock69
02-17-2010, 12:28 PM
If you really want to know what Vietnam was about read The Iron Mountain Report. The US became a war economy after World War II and we needed to feed it. It's all in the report and war was determined to have many macro benefits to the United States.

Another good book to read is called JFK by Colonel Fletcher Prouty. Sure 20% of it is about the JFK conspiracy, but 80% of the book is about how the CIA runs it's little third-world operations, most specifically, how Vietnam was a conflict CREATED by the CIA to begin with, to feed the Military Industrial Complex. The powers that be knew Vietnam was going to be one of our future Military Industrial projects by the late 40s. The certainly knew Korea was going to be the next area of conflict by the end of WWII.

Hardrock69
02-17-2010, 12:31 PM
My uncle served under Patton in the third army. He was a bad ass and had the knife a German prisoner pulled out of his jackboot and knifed him in the arm with. The German of course got bayonetted by my uncle. He also had a German Lugar. He said he saw Patton several times up front observing the situation. He was not the general who hid where it was safe. He told us some cool stories about the Battle of the Bulge. After Germany surrendered he was an MP and had Eisenhower pass through his checkpoint.

Man that is fucking cool! If your uncle is still around, you need to set up a tripod with a video camera on it, give him a pint of some good sipping whiskey and a shot glass, roll the tape, and have him record all of his stories for posterity.

My best friend's Dad served with the Flying Tigers in China in WWII. One day he came over to our house, and he sat there and told us stories about his experiences for over an hour.

This is why I prefer to read autobiographies.....you get to hear the real story from those who were actually involved in areas of history, instead of some dry recounting of events by some scholar decades or centuries later.

Back in the 70s my Dad and I went to his hometown in Southern Arkansas. Visited one of our cousins, who by that time was in his 60s. He had the rifle of a Nazi sniper that he killed while in the European theater. It was an 8mm Mauser with swastikas stamped in the barrel, and a scope. He too had a Luger.

Hardrock69
02-17-2010, 12:36 PM
That being said, the US can mess with lesser powers but it can't mix it up with another nuclear superpower. Nobody wins so the cold war never ended. There are just more players and economic warfare is used more. Computer hacking is also part of this new war.

That is why China, The USSR and the USA have had all these little proxy wars. Vietnam was not only created to feed OUR Military Industrial Complex, but the Soviet one as well. We just set up the chessboard in Vietnam, move the pieces around until game over.

Same thing is going on with Iraq/Assramistan. While killing terrists is a very necessary thing, the US Military Industrial Complex has had a fantastic time testing new battlefield technology in REAL LIFE tactical situations.

Our armed forces are just product testers for the corporations.

Nitro Express
02-17-2010, 01:06 PM
Man that is fucking cool! If your uncle is still around, you need to set up a tripod with a video camera on it, give him a pint of some good sipping whiskey and a shot glass, roll the tape, and have him record all of his stories for posterity.

My best friend's Dad served with the Flying Tigers in China in WWII. One day he came over to our house, and he sat there and told us stories about his experiences for over an hour.

This is why I prefer to read autobiographies.....you get to hear the real story from those who were actually involved in areas of history, instead of some dry recounting of events by some scholar decades or centuries later.

Back in the 70s my Dad and I went to his hometown in Southern Arkansas. Visited one of our cousins, who by that time was in his 60s. He had the rifle of a Nazi sniper that he killed while in the European theater. It was an 8mm Mauser with swastikas stamped in the barrel, and a scope. He too had a Luger.

Sadly my uncle passed away. The guy Clint Eastwood played in Grand Torino was my uncle but he was a farmer. I used to hunt with him and we did all that on horseback. He was a major horse nut. Anyways that Nazi knife he took off that German soldier was his prized trophy and he took that thing on every hunting trip. One time he downed a dear and was slitting it's throat with the Nazi knife and the deer came to and ran off with his prized knife. He combed those hills looking for it and never found it or the deer. I got to shoot the Luger one time. He also had a statue of a little boy pissing he picked up in Belgium. LOL! German fought for meddles and Americans fought for trophies.

I knew a guy in Denver that was in the Flying Tigers.

Nitro Express
02-17-2010, 01:11 PM
One story he told me was the 3rd Army had advanced so far that they were behind enemy lines with no support. Anyways they broke into a jam factory to get something to eat and he says he's eating the best jam he has ever had and then all these German vehicles and troops start whizzing by the factory. So they hid out in this factory while the Germans blitzkrieged past. He also said they got into a fire fight with some German and their ammunition was faulty. Their guns wouldn't go off and so they took full advantage of that.

Nitro Express
02-17-2010, 01:17 PM
He said another problem the Germans had what their heavy tanks couldn't make it across the bridges. The big tiger tank was a feared foe but it was big and heavy. The even had a bigger tank called the super tiger. He said they were no match for the air force and could be flanked but he said being ambushed by those tanks was their biggest fear. He siad the Germans were masters at camoflage so they were always wary of stumbling into an ambush. Patton's theory was to blitzkrieg them back and overwelm them. Patton was using their own tactics against them.

Nitro Express
02-17-2010, 01:23 PM
My dad had a cousin that got drafted into the German army and he was stationed on the eastern front. He of course carried a K98K Mauser but said he never fired the thing in a battle. He said when his squad got into a fire fight the two MG42 machine guns did most the work. Each machine gun had a crew of three men and the rest of the squad supplied ammo to the guns. He said the Mauser was just a support weapon and the real killing was done with machine guns and artillery. So he said he was basically an ammo mule.

Nickdfresh
02-17-2010, 05:48 PM
Another good book to read is called JFK by Colonel Fletcher Prouty. Sure 20% of it is about the JFK conspiracy, but 80% of the book is about how the CIA runs it's little third-world operations, most specifically, how Vietnam was a conflict CREATED by the CIA to begin with, to feed the Military Industrial Complex. The powers that be knew Vietnam was going to be one of our future Military Industrial projects by the late 40s. The certainly knew Korea was going to be the next area of conflict by the end of WWII.

He's gives WAAYYY too much credit to the CIA then. They couldn't even fucking kill Castro, but they "fed" the military industrial complex, which, incidentally really didn't need feeding from a counterinsurgency/large scale land war in a place not ideally suited to US power...

The Soviets were enough, and Vietnam set the US Army's modernization programs back almost a decade and ended the draft...

Nitro Express
02-18-2010, 04:58 AM
That is why China, The USSR and the USA have had all these little proxy wars. Vietnam was not only created to feed OUR Military Industrial Complex, but the Soviet one as well. We just set up the chessboard in Vietnam, move the pieces around until game over.

Same thing is going on with Iraq/Assramistan. While killing terrists is a very necessary thing, the US Military Industrial Complex has had a fantastic time testing new battlefield technology in REAL LIFE tactical situations.

Our armed forces are just product testers for the corporations.

These are age old tested tactics. There always has to be a threat, a boogie man so to speak. If there isn't a real one, then start some shit and blame it on them. All this goes back to roman times of bread and circuses (entertainment distractions for the masses) and never ending war (enriches the elites and keeps the military busy so they won't over throw you). Nothing new really. As long as empire America controls that middle east oil, it will still be top dog for awhile. As long as the US Dollar is the oil reserve currency, they can play the money printing game.

Nitro Express
02-18-2010, 05:05 AM
He's gives WAAYYY too much credit to the CIA then. They couldn't even fucking kill Castro, but they "fed" the military industrial complex, which, incidentally really didn't need feeding from a counterinsurgency/large scale land war in a place not ideally suited to US power...

The Soviets were enough, and Vietnam set the US Army's modernization programs back almost a decade and ended the draft...

The Soviets were better at espionage. The CIA couldn't hold a candle to the KGB in that regard. Where the CIA had the upper hand was it's access to technology. They were putting a tap on the soviets secure underwater communication line but of course that came to an end when the KGB espionage exposed the operation.

I don't think the CIA was totally rotten but like all agencies, there are rotten compartments inside the agency.

hideyoursheep
02-21-2010, 05:12 AM
<a href="http://photobucket.com/images/we%20were%20soldiers" target="_blank"><img src="http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/ankur_jain/weweresoldiers.jpg" border="0" alt="We were soldiers Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

Nickdfresh
02-22-2010, 09:53 PM
The Soviets were better at espionage. The CIA couldn't hold a candle to the KGB in that regard. Where the CIA had the upper hand was it's access to technology. They were putting a tap on the soviets secure underwater communication line but of course that came to an end when the KGB espionage exposed the operation.

I don't think the CIA was totally rotten but like all agencies, there are rotten compartments inside the agency.

Yeah. But the CIA had a huge disadvantage of operating in a free society against an "Iron Curtain" while the KGB enjoyed the opposite, so HUMINT has never been the forte of the U.S.

There were instances of highly placed sources and defectors where the CIA had their "victories" as well. I think having a Soviet Colonel as a spy during the Cuban Missile Crisis may have been their crowning jewel as far as espionage goes...

hideyoursheep
02-23-2010, 06:08 AM
Ermy's a riot, but IMO his best work was Boys Of Company C. He made that movie, and it's over after his last scene. A much more authentic look at VietNam-era Boot Camp, especially during the draft. Fucking great.

Oh, and I had a First Sgt. who was with the "Squawking Buzzards" during the "Hamburger Hill" period. Left 2 weeks after.

He said the film "Yellow Submarine" was more realistic. I took his word for it. I never saw the movie.