US would lose cyberwar, says security chief

[Panamark]

- We'd lose a cyberwar - US expert
- Would cut nation's infrastructure
- US most vulnerable

THE United States would lose a cyberwar if it fought one today, a former US intelligence chief has warned.

Michael McConnell, a retired US Navy vice admiral who served as ex-president George W Bush's director of national intelligence, also compared the danger of cyberwar to the nuclear threat posed by the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

"If we went to war today in a cyberwar, we would lose," Mr McConnell told a hearing on cybersecurity held by the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation.

"We're the most vulnerable, we're the most connected, we have the most to lose.

"We will not mitigate this risk, and as a consequence of not mitigating this risk, we are going to have a catastrophic event."

The hearing came a little over a month after internet giant Google revealed that it and other US companies had been the target of a series of sophisticated cyberattacks originating in China.

"National security and our economic security are at stake," Democratic Senator Jay Rockefeller said.

"A major cyberattack could shut down our nation's most critical infrastructure - our power grid, telecommunications, financial services."

The greatest threat to the United States comes from cyber espionage and cyber crime, cybersecurity expert James Lewis said, calling them a "major source of harm to national security".

"We have lost more as a nation to espionage than at any time since the 1940s," he said.

In order to secure cyberspace, Mr McConnell suggested the United States provide a "more robust commitment" in leadership, policies, legislation and resources.

He called for establishing a National Cybersecurity Centre modelled after the National Counter Terrorism Centre set up after the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington.

[Panamark]

Linkeage

US would lose cyberwar, says security chief | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/world/us-would-lose-cyberwar-says-security-chief/story-e6frfkyi-1225833903350)

[Panamark]

And on Topic:

Intel hit by attack at same time as Google
From correspondents in New York From: AFP February 24, 2010 12:14PM Increase Text Size Decrease Text Size Print Email Share Add to Digg Add to del.icio.us Add to Facebook Add to Kwoff Add to Myspace Add to Newsvine What are these? US COMPUTER chip giant Intel said it was the target of a cyberattack last month at around the same time that Google reported that its systems had been probed by hackers based in China.

Intel, in a filing with the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) overnight, did not directly link the "sophisticated" attack on its computers to those reported by Google.

"We regularly face attempts by others to gain unauthorised access through the internet to our information technology systems by, for example, masquerading as authorised users or surreptitious introduction of software," the company said.

"One recent and sophisticated incident occurred in January 2010 around the same time as the recently publicised security incident reported by Google," the company said.

An Intel spokesman declined to provide further details about the attacks.

Google vowed in January to stop bowing to internet censors in China in the wake of sophisticated cyberattacks aimed at the US firm's source code and Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists around the world.

Google said other US companies had also been targeted in the attacks which originated in China but declined to identify them.

[LoungeMachine]

The list of UNSECURED and vulnerable targets of the US is staggering.....

Food Supply
Nuclear Plants
Water Supply
Ports
Mexican Border

The myth that we're even somewhat ready for ANY sort of attack is [sadly] laughable.

Too bad we can';t get a REFUND on those last 2 wars, and use the money to PROTECT ourselves....

:gulp:

[Nitro Express]

Actually. We are fucking ourselves pretty well without anyone helping. We've already hit the iceberg. The Fed is printing money like crazy and the government is going into more debt stimulating the economy. At some time the Fed will have to raise rates and half the tax dollars will go towards just paying the interest on the debt. By then the only people working will be government employees and the currency will be hyper-inflated. Out of options, the politicians will start a war as a distraction. This is the next ten years in my opinion. The average person will be financially ruined, hungry, and fighting for their life. We are past the point of no return, nobody is fixing shit and nobody has a solution. So what's a little cyber war? We've already done it to ourselves, it may speed up the enevitable but that's it.

[Nitro Express]

China has amazing internet censorship. My brother in law was in Bejing for the Olympics and he had a website where he was posting his daily journal and photos. He complained about the pollution and someone edited his original post and reposted the edited version. Anything the Chinese didn't like they edited. He was amazed and said they had to have a huge facility somewhere full of people doing this.

[kwame k]

The list of UNSECURED and vulnerable targets of the US is staggering.....

Food Supply
Nuclear Plants
Water Supply
Ports
Mexican Border

The myth that we're even somewhat ready for ANY sort of attack is [sadly] laughable.

Too bad we can';t get a REFUND on those last 2 wars, and use the money to PROTECT ourselves....

:gulp:

Add the electrical grid that has already been hacked.....

[ELVIS]

The sky is falling!

[kwame k]

Oh yeah, and Oil too..........


At least three US oil companies were the target of a series of previously undisclosed cyberattacks that may have originated in China and that experts say highlight a new level of sophistication in the growing global war of Internet espionage.

The oil and gas industry breaches, the mere existence of which has been a closely guarded secret of oil companies and federal authorities, were focused on one of the crown jewels of the industry: valuable "bid data" detailing the quantity, value, and location of oil discoveries worldwide, sources familiar with the attacks say and documents obtained by the Monitor show.

The companies – Marathon Oil, ExxonMobil, and ConocoPhillips – didn't realize the full extent of the attacks, which occurred in 2008, until the FBI alerted them that year and in early 2009. Federal officials told the companies proprietary information had been flowing out, including to computers overseas, a source familiar with the attacks says and documents show.

Link (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/cyberattacks-hit-us-oil-industry-china-involved/story?id=9699623)

[kwame k]

The sky is falling!

Does that mean Jesus and the Angles will be dropping in ;)

[Panamark]

This does hit home literally when you see how easily a
13 year old Lebanese kid hacked this site....

[LoungeMachine]

The sky is falling!

It's God's will then......

:gulp:

Bet you would have said the same thing on August 9th in Crawford.....

idiot

[Panamark]

This is serious !!
You guys are making us have naked body scanners
at every airport and dont give a fuck about the web,
Most in house web servers are on the same lans that
can be accessed if you know how....

Its already happened.

[ELVIS]

WELL, SHUT DOWN THE INTERNET AND GIVE IT TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THEY CAN FIX IT!!!!

They can regulate it, censor it, police it, tax it, and provide a false sense of security all at the same time. It will be GRATE!


LMAO!


:elvis:

[chefcraig]

This does hit home literally when you see how easily a
13 year old Lebanese kid hacked this site....

The same thing happened when a teenager hacked our defense system back in the 1980s. You'd have hoped an upgrade would have been put into place immediately.

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5127/wopr.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/wopr.jpg/)

[Nitro Express]

Hey. Nobody is talking about the mass coronal ejection from the sun that could take the grid down and fry electrical equipment. Kiss you car goodbye and everything else modern. The Mexican with the mule, rice, and beans will be the winner in this situation.

[Nitro Express]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lPLjnqS8UeY&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lPLjnqS8UeY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[LoungeMachine]

WELL, SHUT DOWN THE INTERNET AND GIVE IT TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THEY CAN FIX IT!!!!

:

Hey moron....

If it wasnt for the big bad federal gum'nt and our tax dollars, THE FUCKING INTERNET WOULDN'T EXIST.

:gulp:

pissant

[thome]

US would lose cyberwar, says security chief ..

HELL NO THIS IS AMERCA!!

I am a level thirteen Dragon Wizzard and I have several friends who are 15th level Troll Magicians.


Our Ilk is coast to caost preparing for any contingent assault wether thru the diamond mines of algeron 6 or any other etherworld of the mists.


Bring it ON!!!
'

[Nitro Express]

Hey moron....

If it wasnt for the big bad federal gum'nt and our tax dollars, THE FUCKING INTERNET WOULDN'T EXIST.

:gulp:

pissant

Yup. The internet was a product of the Pentagon.

[Nitro Express]

US would lose cyberwar, says security chief ..

HELL NO THIS IS AMERCA!!

I am a level thirteen Dragon Wizzard and I have several friends who are 15th level Troll Magicians.


Our Ilk is coast to caost preparing for any contingent assault wether thru the diamond mines of algeron 6 or any other etherworld of the mists.


Bring it ON!!!
'

I recently went to a funeral and ran into some people I grew up with there. The kid in my grade school that was a total Dungeon and Dragon freak and could kick your ass in chess, now works for the CIA. Before that he worked for The Rand Corporation as a strategist. He hasn't changed. He just got more sophisticated.

[Panamark]

The internets design was primarily military.

A network that could re-route if one of its links got taken out.

Not sure if that was gum'nt as Loungie says,
as in its infancy global universities and medical centres
were the "internet"... But respect where due, the brilliant
idea of having backup lines under attack, came from the US Govt.

They should have had those guys on the commercial plane threat team...

[jhale667]

Hey moron....

If it wasnt for the big bad federal gum'nt and our tax dollars, THE FUCKING INTERNET WOULDN'T EXIST.

:gulp:

pissant

There you go confusing Elvis with facts and logic again...:hee:

[Kristy]

The list of UNSECURED and vulnerable targets of the US is staggering.....

Food Supply
Nuclear Plants
Water Supply
Ports
Mexican Border

Hardly "cyberterrorism" targets (exception being possibly the nuke plants). How can you really fuck with food and water supply facilities themselves with computer hacking unless your disrupted the way in which they are distributed to populations? Most cyberterrorists would go for military/chemical, nuclear and weapons storage sites rather than water or food. These people would rather wipe out large percentages of people in one swoop rather than wear them down by attrition of starvation - not to say that can't be easily done but that would be more of an act of psychological terrorism if anything.

[Kristy]

Yeah, go fuck yourself, Elvis.

[ELVIS]

Most cyberterrorists would go for military/chemical, nuclear and weapons storage sites rather than water or food.

How many cyberterrorists did you interview in order to gather such telling information ??

These people would rather wipe out large percentages of people in one swoop rather than wear them down by attrition of starvation - not to say that can't be easily done but that would be more of an act of psychological terrorism if anything.

Please define terrorism, Mrs. Smartybloomers...




:elvis:

[Kristy]

I don't need a computer to bring a suitcase nuke to a border crossing, port or water plant, dumbass. Cyberterrorism is more about shutting down major security systems of a military/government nature if one was going to plan an attack on a major level instead of localized. So go make yourself useful get off line and look for your other flip-flop you lost in your trailer park.

[LoungeMachine]

Hardly "cyberterrorism" targets .

Wasn't my implication...

Just saying the aside from the cyberterrorism threats, there's a whole lot of low-tech threats we've never bothered to address....

:gulp:

While HomeLand Security is playing Dungeons and Dragons and having the TSA take off our shoes, Ahmed can simply walk across our border and dump a suitcase of anything into a major water supply, and startling the geese as the same time....

[Kristy]

Wasn't my implication...

Just saying the aside from the cyberterrorism threats, there's a whole lot of low-tech threats we've never bothered to address.

Sorry. :0

[ELVIS]

Cyberterrorism is more about shutting down major security systems of a military/government nature if one was going to plan an attack on a major level instead of localized.

Says who, you ??

You're misinformed...as usual...

[LoungeMachine]

Sorry. :0

s'aight.

6,000 miles of land borders, 3,000 miles of ocean borders, 100's of thousands of containers coming into ports each day, and a National Guard that is busy guarding oil interests overseas........

Anybody who thinks we're remotely "safe" from any sort of "terrorism" is a fool.

We're going to get hit again.

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Says who, you ??

You're misinformed...as usual...

:lmao:

Oh, please set us straight, oh wise one.....

:gulp:

she could outsmart you on her worst day

[Unchainme]

Yup. The internet was a product of the Pentagon.

Ah yes, as a way to communicate about a nuclear threat during the cold war, if I'm not mistaken?

[jhale667]

:lmao:

Oh, please set us straight, oh wise one.....

:gulp:

she could outsmart you on her worst day

...With one lobe of her brain tied behind her back...:biggrin:

[chefcraig]

Ah yes, as a way to communicate about a nuclear threat during the cold war, if I'm not mistaken?

I wouldn't be surprised. The only reason we have a series of superhighways and interstates crisscrossing the nation is to advance troop movement during wartime, as per Dwight D. Eisenhower.

[kwame k]

Hardly "cyberterrorism" targets (exception being possibly the nuke plants). How can you really fuck with food and water supply facilities themselves with computer hacking unless your disrupted the way in which they are distributed to populations? Most cyberterrorists would go for military/chemical, nuclear and weapons storage sites rather than water or food. These people would rather wipe out large percentages of people in one swoop rather than wear them down by attrition of starvation - not to say that can't be easily done but that would be more of an act of psychological terrorism if anything.

Isn't the psychological aspect the definition of terrorism? Sure, they want to get the most bang for their buck but hitting a relatively small amount of people accomplishes the goal...striking terror into a population.

Funny you should mention the water supply, I have been thinking about Manitou's water supply and since it's distribution center is on The Ute Pass Trail, I walk by it at least once a week.

This is purely a general statement and depending on the age or upgrades that have been done to the water distribution center, depends on how much "hacking" can be done.......you could, in theory, confuse the system's senors into think there is too much or not enough water flowing through. Therefore, increasing or shutting off the water supply to a community.....increasing it to a point, in theory, could burst the pipes, flood the reservoir or completely shut off the water supply.

Are people actively trying to hack into say....Manitou's water supply, no. Would it be easy to do? Maybe.

The water distribution/monitoring center, while it's fenced off and does have security cameras, the weakness is it uses a widely available wireless internet carrier.....you don't need to trespass or be James Bond to see where the satellite dish is, it's on the side of the building with the company's logo on it. Now just doing a Google search on that company's services you can find the weakness that other people have found and generic hacks. Get a sniffer type program, sit on the trail, pickup the wireless signal and try to hack into it.

Now I don't see anyone trying to do this and I would never risk my job and freedom to do this but it can be done. It's not a major threat but if Manitou's water system is monitored by a wireless system, I have to imagine many others are....it makes sense because the cost of hard wiring a system is too prohibitive. The same is true for the electrical grid, traffic lights and vital services. It's a known fact that our electrical grid was hacked and there was embedded programs uploaded into those systems.

When I worked for Concast hacking into or infecting a personnel computer is fucking child's play. Their other weakness and a dirty little secret is Concast scabs out it's IT, billing, and customer services to subcontractors in some areas and their employees work from home. Most of the hacks that have been done to Concast were done by these people.....not maliciously but because they were not properly trained or careless with their sensitive information, getting a password for say the billing program is really simple.

Scabbing people's wireless connection was the biggest complaint and when you see they didn't even WEP or WPA their wireless routers, sitting outside someone's house will get you a connection. This has nothing to do with National Security but it does cost millions of dollars to replace, reformat or loss of information. Concast uses publicly available wireless router and doing a Google search on how to recover a WEP or WPA key is available from those manufactures.

Corporate security and sabotage is where the action is.....most people are fucking lazy and passwords are a joke as a means of securing a network or data. When cost comes down you'll see fingerprint or other means of accessing data/networks.

One of my mentors showed me the easiest way to hack a computer system is going into that company's offices. Very easy to do and once inside you'll find passwords under keyboards, in unlocked drawers or easy to find or guess. Birth dates, anniversaries, names of pets or children's information.......people are creatures of habit and hanging out at the companies local watering hole will get you tons of information, while small bits, it adds pieces to the overall puzzle. Corporate security usually includes poorly paid/trained security guards and millions spent on securing their networks and data but most fail to realize that if I can get into your building, I'm at ground zero. Most companies pay lip service to security but they are very complacent when it comes to inside their buildings.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

I wouldn't be surprised. The only reason we have a series of superhighways and interstates crisscrossing the nation is to advance troop movement during wartime, as per Dwight D. Eisenhower.

i thought it was for easier evacuations in case of attack. probably a combination of both.

[Kristy]

Isn't the psychological aspect the definition of terrorism? Sure, they want to get the most bang for their buck but hitting a relatively small amount of people accomplishes the goal...striking terror into a population.

It's all about the scale in which you do it. Maybe the lines between "cyber crime" and "cyber terrorism" have become blurred. Shutting down a power grid and screwing up street lights patterns will have little effect upon a population other than panic and chaos (if it happened during rush hour) instead of being in grave danger. Now would the police be able to handle that on a large scale? Probably not. On the other hand, if you can hack into military or governmental communications and get them to send false information and intelligence back and forth to each other where the military might attack civilian targets is a completely different matter. "Cyber crime" seems to be directed at financial or economic infrastructure rather than a municipality populace. One would involve local or government law enforcement as opposed to military firepower that could devastate populations on a lager scale. All the cyber terrorists would have to do in that is sit back and watch. It's a scary scenario either way just that I'm looking upon it as one being way more severe than the other.

[Kristy]

"Concast" Heh, I just got that. Their crappy "Triple Play" package is financial terrorism right there for what they charge and the inept service you get.

[Blackflag]

I couldn't possibly give less of a shit about "cyberterrorism." But I'm sure we're going to throw a few trillion dollars at this boogeyman.

I'm sure the companies with something to sell the government are the ones who keep beating this drum.

Cunts.

[Nickdfresh]

My father once worked for what has become Niagara Mohawk (electric). During the "great blackout" in the late 1960s, it was rumored to have been a precursor to a Soviet attack.

Disrupting major utilities could have an impact in event of war, but I seriously doubt a major conflict would just come out of the blue and that it would take years of belligerent lead up to a major conflict with a country such as China. I think the article is a bit alarmist, but does have a point that the US is more dependent, and thusly more vulnerable, to an attack on technological infrastructure. However, it should be stated that the NSA is rumored to have some techno-smack bombs of their own that could fry anyone's grid (power, internetz, telephone exchanges, etc.) in the lead up to open conflict. In fact, they've been used ever since the First Gulf War, and certainly in the Second one.

As far as terrorists, I'm not sure cyber-terrorism is really "sexy" enough for them. After all, al Qaida's whole point of bringing down the Towers was to cripple the U.S. financial sector, and even that scale of disaster has a relatively minimal impact on the economy. Killing lots of people around a transportation hub seems to be a lot more their cup of tea, and it seems the CIA/FBI/military intelligences have turned much of their internet activities against them..

[Nitro Express]

I travel quite a bit and the only country in the world who wants war right now is the United States. I don't see China wanting war. They only have one child per family and they are doing fine economically without war and they certainly don't want to send their only child off to get killed. Europe doesn't want war. Russia doesn't want war. Sure you always have little squables in the third world but no major power wants war but the US. If we continue what we are doing we may piss ourselves into World War III but the world doesn't want that.

[Nitro Express]

The only thing China wants from us is natural resources and they are getting our coal, oil, and food and our technology which we are giving them. So what is there to go to war over?

[LoungeMachine]

The only thing China wants from us is natural resources and they are getting our coal, oil, and food and our technology which we are giving them. So what is there to go to war over?

I knew some of Alaskan oil goes to Japan.

But China?

And it seems we import more food from China than export

Would make no sense to attack the country you rely on to buy your junk and borrow your cash.....

:gulp:

[Nitro Express]

The main thing you hit with cyber terrorism is the banks. If you erase or freeze up people's money everything grids to a halt.

[Nickdfresh]

The only thing China wants from us is natural resources and they are getting our coal, oil, and food and our technology which we are giving them. So what is there to go to war over?

I do think we ever will go to war with China, realistically.

But they're using more and more oil as more and more Chinese drive and own multiple cars. There's also that little Taiwan problem and the PRC enjoys aiming missiles at them...

[kwame k]

The main thing you hit with cyber terrorism is the banks. If you erase or freeze up people's money everything grids to a halt.

ATM's got hit a while back but nothing too serious. Al Qaeda hitting our banks or finical institutions seems very remote and unlikely.

[thome]

To bad all this cyber terrorism you -The Front Mayrons- are all up in each others asses about could be won by me, that would be me,, The thome.

Oh?? but how would you do it thomie..?/ (ask the whole world and the 3 internets...)

Well, bieng that I'm a Trarded and all, I prolly go over to the wall and turn the switch to off.



FIGHT THE POWER!

SUKKIT!

[kwame k]

By DANIEL WOOLLS, Associated Press Writer – Wed Mar 3, 11:42 am ET

MADRID – Spanish authorities who dismantled a network of up to 12.7 million virus-infected, data-stealing computers said Wednesday the mastermind of the scam remains a mystery, even though three alleged ringleaders have been arrested.

The "botnet" of infected computers included PCs inside more than half of the Fortune 1,000 companies and more than 40 major banks, police said. The tainted computers stole credit card numbers and online banking credentials.

Spanish investigators, working with private computer-security firms, arrested three young Spaniards last month as the alleged ringleaders of the so-called Mariposa botnet, which appeared in December 2008 and grew into one of the biggest weapons of cybercrime.

Spanish authorities are on the trail of a fourth suspect who might be Venezuelan, said Juan Salon of the Spanish Civil Guard's cybercrime unit.
But the people in custody did not design the malicious software behind the grid; rather they just bought it on the black market, Salon told a news conference called to detail the smashing of the network.

"We have not arrested the creator of the botnet. We have arrested the administrators of the botnet, the ones who spread it and were administering and controlling it," Salon said.

He declined to say how much money might have been plundered or name companies whose computers had been compromised.

Botnets are networks of infected PCs that have been hijacked from their owners, often without their knowledge, and put into the control of criminals. Linked together, the machines supply an enormous amount of computing power to spammers, identity thieves and Internet attackers.

There are an estimated 4,000 to 6,000 operating today and this one was the biggest one ever brought down, said Jose Antonio Berrocal, head of the Civil Guard's economic and technological crimes unit.

The Mariposa botnet spread to more than 190 countries, according to researchers. It also appears to be far more sophisticated than the botnet that was used to hack into Google Inc. and other companies in the attack that led Google to threaten to pull out of China.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100303/ap_on_hi_te/eu_tec_spain_botnet_busted;_ylt=Amkk9vwXYKadZxAdfB yMI9cjtBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTJydW5uZDg2BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMT AwMzAzL2V1X3RlY19zcGFpbl9ib3RuZXRfYnVzdGVkBGNwb3MD MQRwb3MDMgRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawNzcGFpbm1hc3 Rlcm0-)

[LoungeMachine]

To bad all this cyber terrorism you -The Front Mayrons- are all up in each others asses about could be won by me, that would be me,, The thome.

Oh?? but how would you do it thomie..?/ (ask the whole world and the 3 internets...)

Well, bieng that I'm a Trarded and all, I prolly go over to the wall and turn the switch to off.



FIGHT THE POWER!

SUKKIT!


Fuck you're a pathetic, annoying moron.....

:gulp:

Wish you were at least funny or clever.

[kwame k]

Almost 13 million computers infected by this and Gnome's reaction is typical, uninformed.......

[jhale667]

Almost 13 million computers infected by this and Gnome's reaction is typical, uninformed.......

You didn't really expect Thermos to be all hip to the cyber-terrorism, did you? :biggrin:

[kwame k]

You didn't really expect Thermos to be all hip to the cyber-terrorism, did you? :biggrin:

No, and the fact that banks and other industries pass the cost to fight this on to the consumer but then again, I don't think he pays that much for dial-up ;)

Those facts would be wasted on a huff head like Gnome.