Kucinich caves - switches healthcare vote

[sadaist]

Kucinich switches healthcare vote - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-dc-kucinich-health,0,2250599.story)

WASHINGTON
Rep. Dennis Kucinich, a Democrat who has been critical of the president's healthcare plans for not going far enough, announced today that he will vote for the House's final bill -- offering House leaders their first flip from a no-vote to yes as a close vote nears this week.

The Ohio congressman, who voted against the healthcare bill that the House passed in November, complained that it contained no "public option'' as an alternative to private health insurance coverage. He is among a handful of Democrats whom House leaders are attempting to win on the imminent second, and perhaps final, vote on healthcare.

"Some have speculated that I may be, this time, in the position of casting a deciding vote,'' he said at a Capitol Hill news conference this morning. "The vote on the final healthcare bill will be close... I take this vote with the utmost seriousness.... I know that I have to make a decision, not on the bill as I would like to see it, but as it is...

"I have doubts about the bill,'' he said. "This is not the bill I wanted to support.... However, after careful discussions with President Obama, (House) Speaker (Nancy) Pelosi'' and his family, he said, "I have decided to cast a vote in favor of the legislation....''

Kucinich traveled with Obama aboard Air Force One this week to the president's appearance at a campaign-styled pitch in Ohio for the healthcare legislation which the House is near approving, if leaders can hold a razor-thin vote.

"I believe healthcare is a civil right,'' Kucinich said today. "I've spent my life struggling for the rights of working-class people and for healthcare.''

Kucinich, who lived in 21 places by the time he was 17 -- "including a couple of cars'' -- cited his own struggle with Krone's Disease and how he had learned the benefits of taking charge of his own healthcare. He also has benefitted from the best healthcare lately.

"There are those who believe that healthcare is a privilege, based on the ability of those who can pay,'' he said -- calling this "the model'' which President Barack Obama is presenting with his plan to insure 30 million more Americans. And there are those who believe, as he does, he said, that it is a basic right.

Pelosi (D-Calif.) will need 216 votes to win passage of the healthcare bill – and if all sitting members who voted yes on the first measure vote yes again this week she will have that vote.

However, among 15 Democrats who voted yes on the first vote, leaders are concerned about losing a handful on the second vote, nine of those abortion-related.

And among the 37 currently seated Democrats who voted no on the first round, there is a targeted of 16 who are publicly undecided and whom Pelosi hopes to flip to yes votes. Kucinich was among them.

mdsilva@tribune.com

Copyright © 2010, Tribune Interactive

[sadaist]

...after careful discussions with President Obama, (House) Speaker (Nancy) Pelosi'' and his family, he said, "I have decided to cast a vote in favor of the legislation....''


Listening to everyone but his constituents.

[LoungeMachine]

sad.

:gulp:

The ONE guy left other than Bernie Sanders who I actually thought would stick to his convictions....

[Blackflag]

Ron Paul won't vote for this piece of shit, even if he got a free ride in Air Force One. (whee!) Ralph Nader wouldn't have supported this fiasco, either.

[hambon4lif]

The Ohio congressman, who voted against the healthcare bill that the House passed in November, complained that it contained no "public option'' as an alternative to private health insurance coverage. He is among a handful of Democrats whom House leaders are attempting to win on the imminent second, and perhaps final, vote on healthcare.

"Some have speculated that I may be, this time, in the position of casting a deciding vote,'' he said at a Capitol Hill news conference this morning. "The vote on the final healthcare bill will be close... I take this vote with the utmost seriousness.... I know that I have to make a decision, not on the bill as I would like to see it, but as it is...

"I have doubts about the bill,'' he said. "This is not the bill I wanted to support.... However, after careful discussions with President Obama, (House) Speaker (Nancy) Pelosi'' and his family, he said, "I have decided to cast a vote in favor of the legislation....''

Kucinich traveled with Obama aboard Air Force One this week to the president's appearance at a campaign-styled pitch in Ohio for the healthcare legislation which the House is near approving, if leaders can hold a razor-thin vote.

"I believe healthcare is a civil right,'' Kucinich said today. "I've spent my life struggling for the rights of working-class people and for healthcare.''

Kucinich, who lived in 21 places by the time he was 17 -- "including a couple of cars'' -- cited his own struggle with Krone's Disease and how he had learned the benefits of taking charge of his own healthcare. He also has benefitted from the best healthcare lately.Oh....is this what they mean by "demon pass"?!??.....I wan't sure.

Cutting you a fat check at 35,000 feet convinced you that you were wrong the entire time and to take a shit on the people who looked up to you as some kind of human being??

I hope that was one fucking hell of a check!

Don't spend it all in one place, Denny!!

....afterall, you did sell your soul for it!

[bueno bob]

Ron Paul won't vote for this piece of shit, even if he got a free ride in Air Force One. (whee!) Ralph Nader wouldn't have supported this fiasco, either.

Can you suck them off any harder?

Just curious.

[BigBadBrian]

One little airplane ride is all it took?

Hey, how old is his wife? Attaboy, Dennis! :)


http://static.hometheaterforum.com/imgrepo/e/ed/htf_imgcache_19343.jpeg

[hideyoursheep]

Dear Dennis,

<a href="http://www.funnyforumpics.com"><img border="0" src="http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/flame-insults/8/Gay-GetOut.jpg"></a>

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Obama probably promised him a free Meet and Greet with E.T. The Extra Terrestrial. :hee:

[lesfunk]

We need to nuke Washington D.C.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Eujwxh_r43E&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Eujwxh_r43E&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

[bueno bob]

Well, here's the thing...Kucinich is a man of his convictions...I'm hoping the upshot of all this is that he saw something in there that was too good, too big to pass up on, or at least that there's room to work with it, imperfect as it may currently be. It's hard saying, but the guy's track record really does speak for itself and I'm willing to give him at least a little consideration before crucifying him.

[FORD]

Dennis sees this as a beginning, not an ending. I definitely agree with him in principle, but I'm not holding my breath. The Republican infiltration of the Democratic party known as the DLC has a pattern of supporting deregulation & privatization just like the Repukes do. Rahm Emanuel's brother (a supposed doctor) is pushing for Medicare privatization even now, which is 180 degrees away from the direction it should be going. There's also this whole "charter schools" fraud going on, and that has a lot of support from the DLC tools.

I don't believe they have any intention of "fixing" health care after this bill is passed. Yeah Dennis does. Alan Grayson does. Bernie Sanders does. And probably Russ Feingold, and a few others in the Senate who aren't brainwashed by the DLC infiltration. Hopefully the House Progressive Caucus. But is it likely to be a done deal in the short term? Sadly no :(

Right now, I'm actually cheering on the Repukes who are planning to take the mandate bullshit to court. If that shit gets taken out of it, but the mild insurance reform remains, I could live with the bill, as a "first step in the process".

[bueno bob]

Dennis sees this as a beginning, not an ending. I definitely agree with him in principle, but I'm not holding my breath. The Republican infiltration of the Democratic party known as the DLC has a pattern of supporting deregulation & privatization just like the Repukes do. Rahm Emanuel's brother (a supposed doctor) is pushing for Medicare privatization even now, which is 180 degrees away from the direction it should be going. There's also this whole "charter schools" fraud going on, and that has a lot of support from the DLC tools.

I don't believe they have any intention of "fixing" health care after this bill is passed. Yeah Dennis does. Alan Grayson does. Bernie Sanders does. And probably Russ Feingold, and a few others in the Senate who aren't brainwashed by the DLC infiltration. Hopefully the House Progressive Caucus. But is it likely to be a done deal in the short term? Sadly no :(

Right now, I'm actually cheering on the Repukes who are planning to take the mandate bullshit to court. If that shit gets taken out of it, but the mild insurance reform remains, I could live with the bill, as a "first step in the process".

As I've read it (what I've read of it), there are certainly a lot of handouts to insurance companies. I find it pretty telling that no Republican has really contested THAT element of the issue yet. Something about "biting the hand that feeds" jumps to mind...

Regarding any praise on my part, I'm waiting to see who really earns it...

[ELVIS]

, I could live with the bill, as a "first step in the process".

Yeah, so they can cross that bridge and burn it behind them, THEN write the bill...

And from that point on, so called healthcare will be debated and argued forever...


:elvis:

[FORD]

What really should be the bare minimum right now, if they insist on allowing the insurance companies to continue existing at all, is to follow the Switzerland model, regulate the shit out of them, and force them to be non-profits. And if they can't play by those extremely fair rules, then they can go fuck themselves, and we get single payer by default.

[bueno bob]

I found this to be a pretty enlightening and easy to understand breakdown of exactly why this process has failed to do what it should have...

Corporate Democrats Compromise and Betray—Health Care Fiasco (http://www.socialistalternative.org/news/article10.php?id=1269)

Corporate Democrats Compromise and Betray—Health Care Fiasco
Feb 26, 2010
By Bryan Watson

Despite defiant declarations to fight on, it’s clear Obama and the Democratic Party’s signature domestic legislation, health care reform - and the hopes of millions for guaranteed health care - are in dire straits.

Most of the sorely needed reforms have been removed from any bill and the emaciated Senate version now being debated faces a tough road ahead. We need to ask ourselves what happened to the health care reform we were promised?

The health care bill negotiated in the Senate failed to provide a universal health care system that was promised. It leaves the insurance companies in charge of health care, and the majority of Americans are stuck with their rotten health care plans. In fact, it offers tens of billions of new customers to the private health care industry. Rather than pay for health care by repealing Bush’s tax cuts as Obama had promised, it is working-class people who are paying, with proposed cuts in Medicare and a tax on quality health care plans enjoyed by many workers.

From the start of the process the Democrats put the private, for-profit industries at the heart of the reform bill. Early on, deals were made with the pharmaceutical companies to deny the federal government the right to negotiate lower drug prices. Also, the positions held by the insurance companies were never threatened, with the single payer option never coming to the table.

Single Payer Rejected
The Democrats have steadfastly refused to consider implementing a “single payer,” “Medicare for all” system which could have provided guaranteed quality health care for all. By removing the parasitical insurance companies, this system would not only have cost less, but would have created a surplus. This is despite a majority of the public supporting such a system.

The Democrats, despite the gravity of the issue and the intense popularity of reform, unfortunately will not deliver the sort of change needed. The reason lies in the fundamentally pro-corporate character of the Democratic Party.

It is no wonder that the public turned against this bill. A recent ABC/Washington Post poll (1/12/10) finds that a majority of Americans do not support Obama’s handling of health care reform (52%) or the reform thus far (52%). Moreover, on how to pay for the health care reform a majority do not support a “Cadillac” tax (22%) but DO support a tax on the wealthy (58%) – an approach Obama has rejected!

In rejecting a single-payer health care system, or even a strong public option, Obama and the Democrats claimed they needed to pursue “realistic” and popular policies. In fact, their health care position has proven to be widely unpopular and open to right-wing attack. This is the result of the big-business, free-market approach and the conservative political strategy of Obama and the Democrats.

Health Care “Deform”
Does the loss of popular support for Obama’s health care reform and the growth of the Tea Parties indicate that the majority of Americans are right-wing and against significant government intervention in health care? Or can the answers, and their true meaning, be found in the approach Obama and the Democrats took to achieve health care reform?

Now that the Democrats have lost their filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, Obama and the Democrats claim that they must shift more to the center to court the moderates in the Republican Party and to hold the conservative Blue Dog Democrats in their camp. However, when the Democrats did enjoy majorities in Congress, not to mention majorities in state legislatures, and amongst state governors and city mayors, what they produced was a series of compromises, mandates, and taxes on working people.

Regrettably, the blame for a diluted “reform” bill or the failure to pass any bill that can be honestly considered a reform does not lie solely with the Democrats. Union leaderships, with few exceptions, and other leaders of progressive movements, who ostensibly represent the interests of working people, did not robustly demand the Democrats pass the significant reform needed.

Rather, they accepted the excuse that we needed to be “practical” and get something passed. Unfortunately, this is the price of lesser-evilism. When movements strap themselves to the Democratic Party, they are ultimately forced to water down their demands to what is politically palatable to their “friends” in office. The unions and other progressive groups could have marshaled their great resources and organized rallies, forums, and pickets to demand a single payer health care system. Instead it was the right wing that brought pressure to bear!

Sadly, it is difficult to expect anything less. It was the Democratic majority who supported and passed bailouts for the big banks and Wall Street, who recently approved the largest military budget in human history, and who have done little to nothing to help the foreclosed, the unemployed, and cash strapped state budgets.

If we want to break the hold corporations have over health care, if we want to insure quality, plentiful, and free medical care for all, the bitter lesson of Obama’s health care reform makes clear that we must break from the big-business Democratic Party and build a mass movement for single payer.

[ELVIS]

Even if healthcare reform was the best thing since sliced bread, the federal government is incapable of managing it...

[Nickdfresh]

Dear Dennis,

<a href="http://www.funnyforumpics.com"><img border="0" src="http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/flame-insults/8/Gay-GetOut.jpg"></a>

You can say a lot of things about Kucinich, but even BBB acknowledges the sheer hotness of his poon'. He ain't gay, dude. :biggrin:

[ELVIS]

He's a snake in the grass...

[hideyoursheep]

You can say a lot of things about Kucinich, but even BBB acknowledges the sheer hotness of his poon'. He ain't gay, dude. :biggrin:


More a reference on his caving in on the bill issue than his sexuality...

If he ever had a pair, he just lost them IMO.



Besides...the pic is funny.:hee:

[bueno bob]

More a reference on his caving in on the bill issue than his sexuality...

If he ever had a pair, he just lost them IMO.



Besides...the pic is funny.:hee:

There's at least one good thing going on with it. Check this out:

Both House and Senate bills would subsidize the cost of health insurance for families that aren't covered through work and who meet certain income guidelines. People with incomes up to four times the federal poverty level ― or $43,430 for an individual and $88,200 for a family of four ― would qualify for a sliding-scale subsidy to buy a policy on the national exchange. "Quite a few folks that would clearly be defined as middle class could get some help with premiums," says Kathleen Stoll, director of health policy for Families USA, a health care advocacy group.

Jonathan Gruber, an MIT economist who helped draft Massachusetts' universal health plan, says that the subsidy should extend to families at up to four times the poverty level. Setting the limit at three times poverty, as was done in Massachusetts, left too many people unable to afford coverage, he says. But as legislators try to trim the overall bills' price tag, the subsidy makes a tempting target. As a result, there's been talk of reducing the subsidy to three times the poverty level, or up to $32,490 for individuals and $66,150 for families of four.

That's a LOT of relief for the working poor, and especially those with kids. Just because it's somewhat flawed may not be every reason in the world to vote against it. Again, I'm hoping to hear more from Dennis about his reasoning.

[Nitro Express]

Nobody wants this so called health insurance reform. If they ram it through and Obama signs it into law, it will cause a huge backlash and rebellion. The federal government thinks just because they can print money through the Federal Reserve System they can bring the states to their knees by cutting off federal funding. Lot's of bribery and threats going on behind the scenes on this piece of shit legislation.

[bueno bob]

Nobody wants this so called health insurance reform.

I'm not entirely opposed to it's passage. So I guess that makes one.


If they ram it through and Obama signs it into law, it will cause a huge backlash and rebellion.

I think you give people too much credit. As long as they still have cable TV and high speed internet, I think people in general will be fine. Nobody's taking to the streets with torches and pitchforks.


The federal government thinks just because they can print money through the Federal Reserve System they can bring the states to their knees by cutting off federal funding. Lot's of bribery and threats going on behind the scenes on this piece of shit legislation.

I haven't seen any proof of that yet, but would love to see concrete, irrefutable evidence of it - not just hints, assumptions and guesswork and the ever-lovable "THIS IS CHICAGO POLITICS!(c)" mantra.

[Nitro Express]

I'm not entirely opposed to it's passage. So I guess that makes one.



I think you give people too much credit. As long as they still have cable TV and high speed internet, I think people in general will be fine. Nobody's taking to the streets with torches and pitchforks.



I haven't seen any proof of that yet, but would love to see concrete, irrefutable evidence of it - not just hints, assumptions and guesswork and the ever-lovable "THIS IS CHICAGO POLITICS!(c)" mantra.

You can pay into it then. I'm not giving them a dime.

[GAR]

Ron Paul won't vote for this piece of shit, even if he got a free ride in Air Force One. (whee!)

YAH

"Whee, I go ride plane if vote yes Daddy?"

Screw this clown.

[bueno bob]

You can pay into it then. I'm not giving them a dime.

My insurance is already seen to. I'm not having any rate increases. But I do work with a lot of people who are going to find a lot more breathing room.

[Nickdfresh]

And you can't be dropped because say, you get cancer (after 2014 anyways)...

[ELVIS]

But your cancer care will be limited and rationed by the government...

[sadaist]

But your cancer care will be limited and rationed by the government...

That's after your number is chosen as well. Don't think for a second there won't be quite a long line. Better hope it' a slow metastasizing type.

http://www.allendesigners.com/images/catalog/TAKE-A-NUMBER-LG.jpg

[BigBadBrian]

My insurance is already seen to. I'm not having any rate increases.

Yes you will. Guaranteed.

[kwame k]

Yes you will. Guaranteed.

Considering Insurance Companies have raised rates by over 80% in some States in the last 2 years.......

[bueno bob]

Yes you will. Guaranteed.

No I won't, dipshit.

Guaranteed.

I mean, unless you're all of a sudden my fucking employer, you actually KNOW what I do for a living and know how my benefits are set up, fuckface.

Why don't you go ahead and enlighten us all, shit-wits? Break down my insurance policy for me since you know oh so fucking much, spew it out of that cunt you call a brain and let's see you prove it.

Three questions, fucko -

1) What do I do for a living?
2) How am I insured?
3) How will my rates raise?

I'm waiting. Can you back your shit up or are just another fucking twat?

[Nickdfresh]

But your cancer care will be limited and rationed by the government...

All cancer care is, unless you have a fuck lot of money...

[ELVIS]

No it isn't, mr know it all...

[bueno bob]

No it isn't, mr know it all...

Go tell my mother that, fuckwit. I'm sure she'll be relieved to hear it.

Oh wait, you can't. Bit too late for that.

[Unchainme]

All cancer care is, unless you have a fuck lot of money...

pretty much that.

My family is still in debt due to try to fighting off cancer from my mom (god rest her soul).

I would love to see some reform for families who have people who have castrophic illness, so that the family is able to fight off the disease and yet not remain in debt for the rest of their days. Would be nice if you could buy that as some form of an insurance policy.