View Full Version : Virginia to sue U.S. over healthcare reform
BigBadBrian
03-22-2010, 11:27 AM
NEW YORK, March 22 (Reuters) - Virginia's attorney general said he plans to sue the federal government over the healthcare reform legislation, saying Congress lacks authority to force people to buy health insurance.
Attorney General Kenneth Cuccinelli, a Republican, said on Monday that Congress lacks authority under its constitutional power to regulate interstate commerce to force people to buy insurance. He said the bill also conflicts with a state law that says Virginians cannot be required to buy insurance.
"If a person decides not to buy health insurance, that person by definition is not engaging in commerce," Cuccinelli said in recorded comments. "If you are not engaging in commerce, how can the federal government regulate you?"
Cuccinelli said he plans to file his lawsuit in federal court in Richmond, Virginia, after President Barack Obama signs the bill into law, which he is expected to do.
The bill requires most Americans to have health coverage, and provides subsidies to help lower-income workers afford it.
No Republican voted for the bill, which passed the House on Sunday night by a 219-212 vote.
Link (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2219276420100322)
ELVIS
03-22-2010, 12:26 PM
I'm not opposed to healthcare reform at all. What I am opposed to is the federal government takeover - power grab that is happening right before our eyes...
I firmly believe that the federal government has NO business interfering in the private lives of responsible american citizens...
Health insurance and insurance companies should be regulated by the individual states as auto insurance is. A huge government bureaucracy will result in HUGE unaffordable costs. The federal government is incapable of running ANYTHING efficiently without taking, creating, or borrowing FROM CHINA the money to do so...
Why are so many of you democrats willing to hand over the federal government such an important aspect of your personal lives ??
Why are individual states not even considered in these discussions ??
Why does it appear that back door deals, bribes and threats to "ram it through" are the methods used to barely even get the ball rolling on such an important issue ??
The whole idea needs to be scrapped and the process started over at the state level. The main reason being that a state has an actual budget to work within, whereas the federal government works with imaginary figures reaching in to the stratosphere. We do not have the money because we don't have the necessary jobs to support such astronomical figures!!!
TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!!
We don't have the money!
:elvis:
The problem is that it is NOT a federal government takeover, nor any kind of government takeover at all. It is mandatory payments to a corporation.
And I'm actually hoping the Virginia Repukes are successful with this, because the corporate mandate was a fucking STUPID idea. Baucus should be taken out and shot for that shit.
ELVIS
03-22-2010, 01:44 PM
I wonder how many people actually realize that a lot of what has been written regarding this "bill" has been by corporate insurance companies...
kwame k
03-22-2010, 01:49 PM
I wonder how many people actually realize that a lot of what has been written regarding this "bill" has been by corporate insurance companies...
It's sad that such a great idea gets bogged down into politics and greed.
We pay the most for health care than any other industrialized nation but can't insure everyone.
We spend more on the military industrial complex per year than anything else but can't seem to do what every other industrialized nation has already done, give health care to it's citizens.
Sensible Shoes
03-22-2010, 01:59 PM
I'm not opposed to healthcare reform at all. What I am opposed to is the federal government takeover - power grab that is happening right before our eyes...
I firmly believe that the federal government has NO business interfering in the private lives of responsible american citizens...
Health insurance and insurance companies should be regulated by the individual states as auto insurance is. A huge government bureaucracy will result in HUGE unaffordable costs. The federal government is incapable of running ANYTHING efficiently without taking, creating, or borrowing FROM CHINA the money to do so...
Why are so many of you democrats willing to hand over the federal government such an important aspect of your personal lives ??
Why are individual states not even considered in these discussions ??
Why does it appear that back door deals, bribes and threats to "ram it through" are the methods used to barely even get the ball rolling on such an important issue ??
The whole idea needs to be scrapped and the process started over at the state level. The main reason being that a state has an actual budget to work within, whereas the federal government works with imaginary figures reaching in to the stratosphere. We do not have the money because we don't have the necessary jobs to support such astronomical figures!!!
TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!!
We don't have the money!
:elvis:\
How can you say states are in a better position to handle this? Quite a few are on the verge of bankruptcy and are cutting health and human services left and right!
Seshmeister
03-22-2010, 02:07 PM
Also would people not just move state if one had free healthcare and another left you to die or demanded you were bankrupt?
ELVIS
03-22-2010, 02:34 PM
People should have the freedom to move from state to state for whatever seems attractive to them or whatever is important to them...
The individual state and local governments should to have the freedom to make their own decisions regarding the jobs, services and opportunities they may or may not provide for it's present and future residents and business owners...
ELVIS
03-22-2010, 02:36 PM
How can you say states are in a better position to handle this? Quite a few are on the verge of bankruptcy and are cutting health and human services left and right!
The federal government IS bankrupt and it does not exist to provide health and human services!
Those are state and local government issues...
Seshmeister
03-22-2010, 02:47 PM
People should have the freedom to move from state to state for whatever seems attractive to them or whatever is important to them...
But where ever they go they have to pay for the massive 'socialized' military.
http://nationalpriorities.org/images/stories/chartspage/discr08prop.gif
DavidLeeNatra
03-22-2010, 02:51 PM
But where ever they go they have to pay for the massive 'socialized' military.
http://nationalpriorities.org/images/stories/chartspage/discr08prop.gif
nuff said...
ELVIS
03-22-2010, 03:01 PM
So that means line up everything in the manner of the overinflated military spending ??
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 03:04 PM
Wall Street took over Washington, bailed themselves out, then they took over the mortgage industry and a the auto industry. Healthcare adds another few hotels to the monopoly board.
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 03:08 PM
It never was about healthcare reform. It's about opening loopholes for the IRS to steal more money. This will bankrupt the US. The healthcare reform will die when the whole economy dies and nobody wants Federal Reserve notes anymore. Until that day comes, they are going to use new mandates and 17,000 new IRS thugs to take all the money they can.
They ripped us off with the banker's bailout and now they did it a second time with health care reform. Enjoy the government ruining what was a state of art healthcare system and your IRS audit. Enjoy more taxes and less job opportunities unless of course you want to be a IRS thug.
kwame k
03-22-2010, 03:08 PM
So that means line up everything in the manner of the overinflated military spending ??
To me it means stop spending so much on the military and start spending our money rebuilding our infrastructure, schools and health care.
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 03:14 PM
nuff said...
One guy called the new US economy Harvard, Yale, Princeton, bullets, bombs, and banks. That's pretty much what it is. If Obama really was a socialist, he would put some of that military budget into socialized healthcare. Not a tax grab.
All I know is my state and few others are going to go in together and fight this in the courts. Meanwhile the IRS will be growing in power as the lawyers get rich.
I'm almost to the point of wanting to move out of the country to be honest with you. I don't like fascist feudalism and I don't like bankruptsy.
kwame k
03-22-2010, 03:16 PM
Here comes the Republicans to the rescue!!!!!!
States launch lawsuits against healthcare plan
CHICAGO (Reuters) – Less than 24 hours after the House of Representatives gave final approval to a sweeping overhaul of healthcare, attorneys general from several states on Monday said they will sue to block the plan on constitutional grounds.
Republican attorneys general in 11 states warned that lawsuits will be filed to stop the federal government overstepping its constitutional powers and usurping states' sovereignty.
States are concerned the burden of providing healthcare will fall on them without enough federal support.
Ten of the attorneys general plan to band together in a collective lawsuit on behalf of Alabama, Florida, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington.
"To protect all Texans' constitutional rights, preserve the constitutional framework intended by our nation's founders, and defend our state from further infringement by the federal government, the State of Texas and other states will legally challenge the federal health care legislation," said Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, in a statement.
The Republican attorney generals say the reforms infringe on state powers under the Constitution's Bill of Rights.
Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100322/pl_nm/us_usa_healthcare_states)
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 03:19 PM
To me it means stop spending so much on the military and start spending our money rebuilding our infrastructure, schools and health care.
Another brilliant idea. People are finally getting pissed enough. This healthcare scam passing will just fuel a big fire. It's going to get colorful as soon as Obama pens his signature. As the job loses continue, the war continues, the money buys less and the taxes go up, anger will rise as we have never seen it since the 1960's.
I smell a big tax revolt frankly and states rebelling against the federal government. First with lawsuits, then new elections, and then what comes after we will see. I certainly wouldn't want to be an IRS agent right now even if the job paid well with good benefits.
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 03:24 PM
Let's not forget the Democrats who voted no on this horrible legislation. I can only imagine the shit that went on behind the scenes and they stayed true with the people's wishes.
I really can see a major tax sit in coming. The states lose an enormous amount of money to the federal government in the form of taxes. If that tax money stayed in the state, the states wouldn't need the federal money that controls the states. I say stiff the feds and let the local states have the money instead.
Va Beach VH Fan
03-22-2010, 03:26 PM
Doesn't affect me any, this bill doesn't affect neither the VA nor Tricare systems...
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 03:28 PM
The Federal Reserve and IRS stated in 1913. Time to get rid of them. The federal government and Federal Reserve can go bankrupt. That's fine with me. That might be what it will take to get rid of the former and downsize the later. We have plenty of weapons, nobody is going to invade the US anytime soon. Time to bring the troops home, and stop meddling in the world and fighting for old men's loot. Let someone else fight and meddle in the middle east.
kwame k
03-22-2010, 03:29 PM
Another brilliant idea. People are finally getting pissed enough. This healthcare scam passing will just fuel a big fire. It's going to get colorful as soon as Obama pens his signature. As the job loses continue, the war continues, the money buys less and the taxes go up, anger will rise as we have never seen it since the 1960's.
I smell a big tax revolt frankly and states rebelling against the federal government. First with lawsuits, then new elections, and then what comes after we will see. I certainly wouldn't want to be an IRS agent right now even if the job paid well with good benefits.
Nice thing to dream about but there'll never be a revolt again in this country.
As long as your remote control works on the TV, people just don't seem to give a fuck or are too lazy to do something.
They got away with invading Iraq and no one did anything. They made it legal to spy on American citizens and no one did anything. The gave billions to bankers while people are getting thrown out of their houses and no one did anything.
This will be no different.
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 03:29 PM
Doesn't affect me any, this bill doesn't affect neither the VA nor Tricare systems...
Virginia is going to sue over it. Something has pissed them off.
sadaist
03-22-2010, 03:32 PM
Baucus should be taken out and shot for that shit.
Wait a second. When someone called for Barack to be shot you had this to say....
Some of these teabaggers are, in fact, murderous racist psychopaths.
Exhibit KKK.....
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/front-line/58368-tea-party-protests-ni-er-fa-ot-shouted-members-congress-spat-2.html#post1441700
So are you in fact a murderous racist psychopath? Why exactly is it okay for you to exercise free speech, frustration and anger, but not others?
:umm:
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 03:37 PM
Nice thing to dream about but there'll never be a revolt again in this country.
As long as your remote control works on the TV, people just don't seem to give a fuck or are too lazy to do something.
They got away with invading Iraq and no one did anything. They made it legal to spy on American citizens and no one did anything. The gave billions to bankers while people are getting thrown out of their houses and no one did anything.
This will be no different.
You forget the economy was in good shape then. People are passive when they can borrow money easily and the television makes them think they can get rich overnight flipping real estate. Those days are over. Bad economies, inflation, losing your home ect... change people. Plus, revolts are usually led by a small minority. People around here are plenty angry. The thing is, the US is headed toward financial ruin. It can't afford this huge healthcare take over and run a huge military as well. So the government just shot itself in the head and the fat and lazy welfare people will wake up when their welfare check is no longer accepted or stops coming in the mail.
You are right in regard that most Americans don't understand the seriousness of the problem because they have had it good for so long. Give it time. You are going to see plenty of anger. First with the small business owners and then later onto everyone else when they get taxed and harassed more with little to show for it. I think by 2012 people will be pretty damn angry.
kwame k
03-22-2010, 03:39 PM
Maybe it was all true about Obama......2012 is the end of the world and he brought it about ;)
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 03:40 PM
Wait a second. When someone called for Barack to be shot you had this to say....
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/front-line/58368-tea-party-protests-ni-er-fa-ot-shouted-members-congress-spat-2.html#post1441700
So are you in fact a murderous racist psychopath? Why exactly is it okay for you to exercise free speech, frustration and anger, but not others?
:umm:
I'm more into giving them a free trial and taking their money. It's what they like to do to us.
Va Beach VH Fan
03-22-2010, 03:49 PM
Virginia is going to sue over it. Something has pissed them off.
Yeah no shit, it's called a Republican governor....
Unchainme
03-22-2010, 03:52 PM
The problem is that it is NOT a federal government takeover, nor any kind of government takeover at all. It is mandatory payments to a corporation.
And I'm actually hoping the Virginia Repukes are successful with this, because the corporate mandate was a fucking STUPID idea. Baucus should be taken out and shot for that shit.
This times a million.
I'm fine with the other parts of the bill to an extend, but it's completely horseshit and unconstitutional to be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty.
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 04:48 PM
Maybe it was all true about Obama......2012 is the end of the world and he brought it about ;)
It will go to the Supreme Court but that's not saying much. They are bought and paid for as well.
Wait a second. When someone called for Barack to be shot you had this to say....
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/front-line/58368-tea-party-protests-ni-er-fa-ot-shouted-members-congress-spat-2.html#post1441700
So are you in fact a murderous racist psychopath? Why exactly is it okay for you to exercise free speech, frustration and anger, but not others?
:umm:
I don't want to kill Baucus because he's a white sheepfucker from Montana. :sheepshagger:
That's the difference.
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 04:52 PM
This times a million.
I'm fine with the other parts of the bill to an extend, but it's completely horseshit and unconstitutional to be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty.
I call it the IRS, corporation empowerment act. Hell, if Obama took a bunch of money out of the military budget and bought real socialized medicine with it, then that's fine with me, but this big is unconstitutional robbery. It's only going to make things worse. It's going to make more people angry and then the resulting government backlash with make more people angry. All I know is a bunch of assholes just ended their political careers yesterday.
kwame k
03-22-2010, 04:56 PM
It will go to the Supreme Court but that's not saying much. They are bought and paid for as well.
What I don't get is that this is an election year and you would think that Democrats would want to put together a bill that made the majority of Americans happy.
You'd think the Republicans would want to put together a bill that would play to their base as well.
What we have is a watered down BS bill from the Democrats and the Republicans looking like a bunch of doomsday whiners.
Not a very good start to get your party votes and get the majority. Of course, the Democrats had it and pissed it away.
Ever feel like going to Washington and bitch slapping every last one of them. Not punching them or hurting them but just bitch slapping the lot of them :pullinghair:
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 04:59 PM
The federal government IS bankrupt and it does not exist to provide health and human services!
Those are state and local government issues...
It is bankrupt, that's why they need to steal more money and this healthcare legislation paves the way. I say stonewall the Feds by keeping your tax money in your state. All the federal government was supposed to do was protect the borders and engage in foreign policy. Not steal money through huge taxes and micromanage everything.
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 05:00 PM
Each state could have wonderful healthcare for what the IRS takes in federal income taxes. Keep that in the state and you don't need to suck on Uncle Sam's dick.
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 05:03 PM
\
How can you say states are in a better position to handle this? Quite a few are on the verge of bankruptcy and are cutting health and human services left and right!
That's called mismanagement of funds. California had the seventh largest economy in the world and they ran it into the ground by overspending at the state level. Some states are better managed. Stop sending money to the IRS and keep it in the states would loosen up some needed funds.
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 05:05 PM
What I don't get is that this is an election year and you would think that Democrats would want to put together a bill that made the majority of Americans happy.
You'd think the Republicans would want to put together a bill that would play to their base as well.
What we have is a watered down BS bill from the Democrats and the Republicans looking like a bunch of doomsday whiners.
Not a very good start to get your party votes and get the majority. Of course, the Democrats had it and pissed it away.
Ever feel like going to Washington and bitch slapping every last one of them. Not punching them or hurting them but just bitch slapping the lot of them :pullinghair:
I smell HUGE bribes. People don't care about their political careers if you pay them enough money. The bribes had to be huge because so many committed career suicide.
Guitar Shark
03-22-2010, 05:07 PM
I wonder how long it will be before Nitro gets hauled into jail on tax evasion. ;)
kwame k
03-22-2010, 05:13 PM
Paying taxes is necessary for the services we want from government. Be it Federal or State.
The more services we require from the government the more we pay in taxes. It's not that hard to grasp. Yes, the government pisses away the money and both Federal and State governments need to be more responsible with our money but going from one extreme to another is not the solution.
Shit, if they just made the corporations pay the taxes they owe we'd have billions right there.
diamondsgirl
03-22-2010, 05:32 PM
This times a million.
I'm fine with the other parts of the bill to an extend, but it's completely horseshit and unconstitutional to be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty.
Its been this way in MA for a while now and it sucks
lots of people fall through the cracks of not having affordable health insurance available to them, and so they either go broke buying it (ie Cobra) or break the law and hope to not get caught. The way they regulate it is that , come tax season, you can not file without having proof of insurance.
I know a guy who used to work fulltime, but got knocked down to part time at a local retail store. He now works 16 hours per week at the store. He can not get any other work any where. He takes home (after taxes) less than $100 per week! He can not get insurance thru his employer because he is part time and they only offer it to full timers. But, he is told by MassHealth (the state run Medicaid insurance) that because of their strict criteria, he is not eligible for state paid insurance. He can buy a cobra policy for $300 per month, which will leave him with $100 per month to live of off of.
Also, unemployed people who are getting unemployment compensation and taking home two-thirds of what they used to earn, often have no choice and can not even buy cobra depending on their circumstances. If their former employer was a small company for example, they are not eligible for coverage. They often also do not qualify for MassHealth based on what they take home. So wtf??
I don't want to kill Baucus because he's a white sheepfucker from Montana. :sheepshagger:
That's the difference.
Where'd you get that Eddymon smiley?
It's right here in the Army smiley list. :biggrin:
Nitro Express
03-22-2010, 07:07 PM
I wonder how long it will be before Nitro gets hauled into jail on tax evasion. ;)
Minimum security prison is a piece of cake but they probably will be putting together a gulag system.
sadaist
03-22-2010, 08:13 PM
... he's a white sheep fucker from Montana. :sheepshagger:
That's the difference.
What difference does it make what color sheep a person fucks? They are all pink inside. That's blatant sheepism and you are a sheepist.
Nickdfresh
03-22-2010, 09:38 PM
....
I firmly believe that the federal government has NO business interfering in the private lives of responsible american citizens...
Health insurance and insurance companies should be regulated by the individual states as auto insurance is. A huge government bureaucracy will result in HUGE unaffordable costs. The federal government is incapable of running ANYTHING efficiently without taking, creating, or borrowing FROM CHINA the money to do so...
Except gov't coordination of health care will actually reduce the deficit...
Why are so many of you democrats willing to hand over the federal government such an important aspect of your personal lives ??
Why are individual states not even considered in these discussions ??
Why does it appear that back door deals, bribes and threats to "ram it through" are the methods used to barely even get the ball rolling on such an important issue ??
The whole idea needs to be scrapped and the process started over at the state level. The main reason being that a state has an actual budget to work within, whereas the federal government works with imaginary figures reaching in to the stratosphere. We do not have the money because we don't have the necessary jobs to support such astronomical figures!!!
TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!!
We don't have the money!
:elvis:
You really want the state of Louisiana running anything?:)
I don't want to kill Baucus because he's a white sheepfucker from Montana. That's the difference.
.. and saving grace too?
Admit it, you wanna do him.. and the sheep!
CONFESS
ELVIS
03-23-2010, 09:10 AM
Paying taxes is necessary for the services we want from government. Be it Federal or State.
Wrong!
The more services we require from the government the more we pay in taxes. It's not that hard to grasp.
What services do you "require" ??
Dumdum
ELVIS
03-23-2010, 09:14 AM
except gov't coordination of health care will actually reduce the deficit...
why, because oblahma said so ??
you really want the state of louisiana running anything?
yes, i do as a matter of fact!
the federal government has no business doing this crap and it's unconstitutional!!!!
Nickdfresh
03-23-2010, 09:49 AM
the federal government has no business doing this crap and it's unconstitutional!!!!
You're wrong. The federal legislation is the supreme law of the land according to the Constitution. The legislation is at least as constitutional as the "preemptive" undeclared War of aggression waged on Iraq...
And the NONPARTISAN Congressional Budget Office (http://www.cbo.gov/) said it would reduce the deficit over the coming decades...
kwame k
03-23-2010, 11:17 AM
Dumdum
The government is in your life everyday, moron. Read Sesh's post here.
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/front-line/58380-healthcare-reform-bill-soon-law-3.html#post1442336
bueno bob
03-23-2010, 11:19 AM
The government is in your life everyday, moron. Read Sesh's post here.
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/front-line/58380-healthcare-reform-bill-soon-law-3.html#post1442336
Or, better yet:
This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.
I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.
After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.
At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.
On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.
After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.
And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.
knuckleboner
03-23-2010, 07:58 PM
the virginia AG is doing this purely for political reasons.
he would've been the first to complain about the waste in state funds on a sure-fire loser case (especially during a budget crisis) if a democratic AG had sued the bush administration over the patriot act.
if vegas was taking odds, i'd bet the commonwealth that this little stunt shows up in his gubenatorial literature in 2013.
Nitro Express
03-23-2010, 08:10 PM
People are already angry about this healthcare law and just wait until they see their healthcare costs go up and the ones who could not afford it betting fined for not having any. This is going to cause a huge backlash. These politicians are really stupid thinking they can get away with this without some serious consequences. In fact people who have had coverage now may lose it since companies will just pay the fine because it's cheaper than paying the insurance. Basically it's another money grab just like the banker's bailout. They snookered us again.
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