Source of Bible Covenant with God discovered?

[Hardrock69]

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-17009-Freethought-Examiner~y2010m4d13-Source-of-Bible-Covenant-with-God-discovered




Source of Bible Covenant with God discovered?
April 13, 4:20 PMFreethought ExaminerD.M. Murdock

Archaeologists working in Turkey have unearthed an Assyrian tablet dating to around 670 BCE that "could have served as a model for the biblical description of God's covenant with the Israelites." What this fascinating discovery suggests, of course, is that the Bible tale of a divine pact does not represent "history" or a "factual" event, but is instead a fictional rewrite, borrowing or plagiarism of this older Assyrian treaty.

Over the centuries, many Bible critics, minimalists and mythicists have asserted that much of the Old Testament constitutes not factual history but a rehash of ancient myths and traditions dating to before the founding of the Jewish kingdom. This new find apparently adds more evidence to that theory, and it is quite refreshing that both the scholars and the media are spelling out clearly this possible "borrowing," without prejudice in favor of bibliolatry or upholding unprovable matters of faith.

Ancient treaty resembles part of the Bible

Canadian archeologists in Turkey have unearthed an ancient treaty that could have served as a model for the biblical description of God's covenant with the Israelites.

The tablet, dating to about 670 BC, is a treaty between the powerful Assyrian king and his weaker vassal states, written in a highly formulaic language very similar in form and style to the story of Abraham's covenant with God in the Hebrew Bible, says University of Toronto archeologist Timothy Harrison.

Although biblical scholarship differs, it is widely accepted that the Hebrew Bible was being assembled around the same time as this treaty, the seventh century BC.

"Those documents...seem to reflect very closely the formulaic structure of these treaty documents," he told about 50 guests at the Ottawa residence of the Turkish ambassador, Rafet Akgunay.

He was not necessarily saying the Hebrews copied the Assyrian text, substituting their own story about how God liberated them from slavery in Egypt on the condition that they worship only Him and follow His commandments.

But it will be interesting for scholars to have this parallel document.

"The language in the [Assyrian] texts is [very similar] and now we have a treaty document just a few miles up the road from Jerusalem."...

Science Daily provides more details about the tablet:

"The tablet is quite spectacular. It records a treaty -- or covenant -- between Esarhaddon, King of the Assyrian Empire and a secondary ruler who acknowledged Assyrian power. The treaty was confirmed in 672 BCE at elaborate ceremonies held in the Assyrian royal city of Nimrud (ancient Kalhu). In the text, the ruler vows to recognize the authority of Esarhaddon's successor, his son Ashurbanipal," said Timothy Harrison, professor of near eastern archaeology in the Department of Near & Middle Eastern Civilizations and director of U of T's Tayinat Archaeological Project (TAP)....

The researchers hope to glean information about Assyria's imperial relations with the west during a critical period, the early 7th century BCE. It marked the rise of the Phrygians and other rival powers in highland Anatolia -- now modern-day Turkey -- along the northwestern frontier of the Assyrian empire, and coincided with the divided monarchy of Biblical Israel...

Notable is the fact "it is widely accepted that the Hebrew Bible was being assembled around the same time as this treaty," i.e., during the 7th century BCE. The case for this "late" dating of the Old Testament's compilation - with a significant part of it also written later, after the Jews' "Babylonian Exile" (597-538 BCE) - has been made by Israeli archaeologists, including and especially Israel Finkelstein in The Bible Unearthed.

Although the article states that the archaeologist Timothy Harrison "was not necessarily saying the Hebrews copied the Assyrian text, substituting their own story about how God liberated them from slavery in Egypt," it is nonetheless raising that very issue in a manner which breaks with the centuries-old tradition of bending all finds in the "Holy Land" and other places of biblical interest to fit the Bible, in attempts to prove the "Good Book" as "history." It is obvious that this sort of bibliolatry appeasement from the more scientific segment of society is losing ground precisely because of such discoveries - and the implication of this one is a doozy.

No historical covenant with God?

It needs to be emphasized that this intriguing development concerns not just any biblical event but the very covenant between God and the Israelites - here indicated as not something supernatural that actually occurred but, rather, as mere human propaganda based on older texts from other cultures. This discovery, therefore, would essentially negate the basic premise of the Old Testament: To wit, that the Hebrews, Israelites and Jews are the "chosen people" of the Lord of the universe.

Needless to say, for those of us who have been stating as much for many years - and getting pilloried for our efforts - this archaeological find is very exciting, as it adds to the growing body of hard, scientific evidence that the Bible is not "God's Word" but a manmade cultural artifact designed for propagandistic purposes.

Furthermore, as the Old Testament is thus apparently in significant part a rehash and rewriting of the traditions and myths of other cultures, so does the New Testament story of Jesus Christ represent a remake of the mythical motifs of pre-Christian cultures, combined with OT scriptures serving as "blueprints" for the gospel tale's creation.

D.M. Murdock is the author of controversial books and articles on comparative religion and mythology that can be found at TruthBeKnown.com, Stellar House Publishing and Freethought Nation. For more articles from the Freethought Examiner, be sure to subscribe!

[jhale667]

Interesting, albeit less than shocking...

[ELVIS]

Yep...

Proof that the Bible is all propaganda BS to control the masses!!!


LMAO!


:biggrin:

[jhale667]

Yep...

Proof that the Bible is all propaganda BS to control the masses!!!


LMAO!


:biggrin:

Yeah, but we knew that already.

[BigBadBrian]

Yep...

Proof that the Bible is all propaganda BS to control the masses!!!


LMAO!


:biggrin:

Elvis, what is even more interesting is how much time these heathen monkey's put in to dispute the indisputable! :biggrin:

[jhale667]

Elvis, what is even more interesting is how much time these heathen monkey's put in to dispute the indisputable! :biggrin:

Also interesting how idiots who make statements like this usually don't understand things like basic grammar - like the difference between plural and possessive...:lmao:
Don't try to claim it's a TYPO, either - we all know you ARE that stupid.

But that probably falls under "fancy book learnin'" and you zealot fuckheads tend to FROWN on that...since people mightbe encouraged to begin to think for themselves...

[BigBadBrian]

Also interesting how idiots who make statements like this usually don't understand things like basic grammar - like the difference between plural and possessive...:lmao:
Don't try to claim it's a TYPO, either - we all know you ARE that stupid.

But that probably falls under "fancy book learnin'" and you zealot fuckheads tend to FROWN on that...since people mightbe encouraged to begin to think for themselves...

You're the last one to cast stones about grammar. You're the Roth Army Frontline Village Idiot. I'm going to start bookmarking your many mental errors.

[jhale667]

...And it's TOTALLY disputable..in fact the existence of god CAN'T be proven (faith is by definition a belief in something that can't be proven empirically). As believers, it's up to YOU to prove it, it's not for non-believers (or skeptics) to have to DISPROVE.

[jhale667]

You're the last one to cast stones about grammar. You're the Roth Army Frontline Village Idiot. I'm going to start bookmarking your many mental errors.

Riiiight... And you're the Roth Army Frontline Village BITCH.
Have fun with that. Mental errors... I'd bookmark yours, but I'd need a BIGGER HARD DRIVE...:lmao:


Now go make me a sandwich, BITCH.

[kwame k]

Makes total sense that people would compile stories and traditions into a new and cohesive document/religion.

Noah's Flood = Epic of Gilgamesh.

Crucifixion of Jesus = Sun God Ra or Houris.

All the stories of the bible were built upon other stories, cultures and beliefs. Get the fuck over it.

[Seshmeister]

Elvis, what is even more interesting is how much time these heathen monkey's put in to dispute the indisputable! :biggrin:

What a coincidence!

A talking snake said the same thing to me just the other night.

I was asking what he was doing, turned out he was burying transitional fossils he had made.

[jhale667]

Makes total sense that people would compile stories and traditions into a new and cohesive document/religion.

Noah's Flood = Epic of Gilgamesh.

Crucifixion of Jesus = Sun God Ra or Houris.

All the stories of the bible were built upon other stories, cultures and beliefs. Get the fuck over it.

:eek: BLASPHEMY!!! lol
Next thing, you'll tell us Jesus was not the first "messiah" to hang out with 12 dudes, get executed and resurrected in 3 days, either... ;)


What a coincidence!

A talking snake said the same thing to me just the other night.

I was asking what he was doing, turned out he was burying transitional fossils he had made.

That's the best one I've heard yet...that the fossil record was "put there by SATAN to confuse us"...I heard some idiot suggest he invented CARBON DATING so we'd think the earth was more than 5,000 years old too...



Say it ain't so, Satan! :lmao:

[Dr. Love]

...And it's TOTALLY disputable..in fact the existence of god CAN'T be proven (faith is by definition a belief in something that can't be proven empirically). As believers, it's up to YOU to prove it, it's not for non-believers (or skeptics) to have to DISPROVE.

You're missing Brian's point -- you're wasting too much time on critical thinking. Much easier to stop thinking about the world and just move along.

[jhale667]

You're missing Brian's point -- you're wasting too much time on critical thinking. Much easier to stop thinking about the world and just move along.

Right...I should just let FAUX News, Rush Limpdick and Shit Hannity do the thinking for me like he does.

It's all so clear to me now! :baaa:

[kwame k]

:eek: BLASPHEMY!!! lol
Next thing, you'll tell us Jesus was not the first "messiah" to hang out with 12 dudes, get executed and resurrected in 3 days, either... ;)

Now Jay, would I ever do anything like that ;)

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/realtodd/truecross.gifhttp://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/realtodd/christ.jpg

The crucifixion theme, which forms the very core of Christianity, is yet another object that is non-Christian in origin. Above left, the writing on this Greek amulet, identifies the crucified figure as the Greek god-man Orpheus-Dionysus, who rose from the dead in that culture's mythology. The parallels with the Christian crucifixion, as illustrated right, are obvious, and it must come as a shock to Christians to learn that the crucifixion story is not theirs, and was incorporated from other non-Christian religions.

[jhale667]

:D lol!!

[kwame k]

Here's an interesting one..........................


CHRISTIANITY DREW HEAVILY ON MITHRAISM

The main body of Christian belief is in fact not originally Christian at all, and a surprisingly large part of it was drawn from the Persian cult of Mithras, which originated around 2000 BC. Known throughout Europe and Asia by the names Mithra, Mitra, Meitros, Mihr, Mehr, and Meher, the cult spread east through India to China, and reached all parts of the Roman Empire, from Scotland to the Sahara Desert, and from Spain to the Black Sea. The remains of Mithraic temples can be found in Britain, Italy, Romania, Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria, Turkey, Persia, Armenia, Syria, Israel, and North Africa.

The similarities between this pre-Christian religion and Christianity itself are too obvious to ignore:

- Mithras was born of a virgin given the title 'Mother of God'”;

- The Mithraic cult believed in a celestial heaven and a hell;

- The Mithraic cult taught that its followers would have immortality and eternal salvation;

- The Mithraic cult taught that there would be a final day of judgment in which the dead would resurrect, and a final conflict between good and evil that would destroy the existing order;

- The Mithraic cult required its followers to be baptized;

- The Mithraic cult had a ceremony in which followers drank wine and ate bread to symbolize the body and blood of Mithras;

- The Mithraic cult held Sundays as a sacred day;

- The Mithraic cult celebrated the birthday of their god annually on December the 25th;

- The Mithraic cult taught that after their god's earthly mission had been accomplished, he took part in a Last Supper with his companions before ascending to heaven, to forever protect the faithful from above.

(Sources: Cumont, Franz. Les Mystères de Mithra. Dover Publications, Inc. New York, 1956; Cumont, Franz. The Oriental Religions in Roman Paganism. Dover Publications, Inc. New York, 1956.)

[Jesus Christ]

Where's My groan button? :mad:

[Seshmeister]

Here's an interesting one..........................

I think I may have a 5000000 post thread somewhere here about that. :)

It's funny that Christianity in some ways has gone backwards in recent years. When Darwin first published his theories over 100 years ago the church was quite happy with them because in those days everyone knew the bible was metaphorical and not to be taken literally. That's why Darwin is one of the only non kings to be buried in the most important church in England.

It's only fairly recently the retarded bible literalist idiots have come to some prominance especially in the US.

[kwame k]

When the religious right got organized and figured out they could influence elections in this country........shit started going down hill.

[Seshmeister]

But we need religion to teach us morality...


If two Israelite men are fighting and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man, her hand must be cut off without pity. (Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NLT)

[kwame k]

That sounds reasonable.....

I don't know how many fights I've been in and the dude's old lady starts grabbing for my nuts.

[BigBadBrian]

...And it's TOTALLY disputable..in fact the existence of god CAN'T be proven (faith is by definition a belief in something that can't be proven empirically).

True, but the existence of God or Jesus Christ can't be disproved either. Actually, the part about Christ CAN be proved.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1, KJV)





As believers, it's up to YOU to prove it, it's not for non-believers (or skeptics) to have to DISPROVE.

No, that's where you're seriously wrong. I don't have to prove anything to anyone. If you choose not to believe, that's your problem. The atheist obsession with disproving Christianity just amazes me.

I think Dr Love had it right when he said: "you're wasting too much time on critical thinking. Much easier to stop thinking about the world and just move along." Personally, I don't waste my time debating with others and trying to disprove things I don't believe in.

[jhale667]

I wasn't debating you, that would indeed be a waste of my time. I merely pointed out you're a zealot and an idiot. :D

And that whole "Neocon shitbag" thing you've got going...

[BigBadBrian]

And that whole "Neocon shitbag" thing you've got going...

There you go, you don't even know what a Neocon is. Go look it up. I was never one. All conservatives/Republicans/right-leaning Independents don't fit into that category. Moron. While you're at it, look up Liberal, Progressive, Socialist, Marxist, and Commmunist. You don't know what those mean either.

Have a fun-filled enlightening day! :)

[jhale667]

Better idea: Put on your "Obama=Hitler" T-shirt and go PLAY IN TRAFFIC. :Loser:

Have a road-pizza day. :dafinger:

[ace diamond]

oh, this is getting good...........I predict this thread will turn into a classic very quickly............
let the madness, meltdowns, bitch slapping, and ownage begin.

disasterpeace theatre
anyone?

is there anything left in that bottle......................
:hitch:

[Blackflag]

Now Jay, would I ever do anything like that ;)

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/realtodd/truecross.gifhttp://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/realtodd/christ.jpg

Nobody claims crucifixion was something new.

[Blackflag]

Why is the crap in The Front Line?

[kwame k]

Nobody claims crucifixion was something new.

No it isn't......crucifixion with a resurrection after 3 days isn't new, either!

[LoungeMachine]

Why is the crap in The Front Line?

Religious debates have ALWAYS been in the FL.....

oh, wait. You meant ace?

We keep him around to comply with the Americans With Disablities Act.

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

No it isn't......crucifixion with a resurrection after 3 days isn't new, either!

I don't think that Greek crap says that.

[Blackflag]

Religious debates have ALWAYS been in the FL.....

oh, wait. You meant ace?

We keep him around to comply with the Americans With Disablities Act.

:gulp:


Just because you're too weak to move it. Nothing political about this.

[kwame k]

I don't think that Greek crap says that.


The crucifixion theme, which forms the very core of Christianity, is yet another object that is non-Christian in origin. Above left, the writing on this Greek amulet, identifies the crucified figure as the Greek god-man Orpheus-Dionysus, who rose from the dead in that culture's mythology. The parallels with the Christian crucifixion, as illustrated right, are obvious, and it must come as a shock to Christians to learn that the crucifixion story is not theirs, and was incorporated from other non-Christian religions.

[kwame k]

Just because you're too weak to move it. Nothing political about this.

This has always been the place for politics and religion.........

[Blackflag]

The crucifixion theme, which forms the very core of Christianity, is yet another object that is non-Christian in origin. Above left, the writing on this Greek amulet, identifies the crucified figure as the Greek god-man Orpheus-Dionysus, who rose from the dead in that culture's mythology. The parallels with the Christian crucifixion, as illustrated right, are obvious, and it must come as a shock to Christians to learn that the crucifixion story is not theirs, and was incorporated from other non-Christian religions.

Crucifixion happened all the time. There were two other people crucified at the same time. It doesn't say three days.

I'm not even sure that's how that greek tale goes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus#Death

[Blackflag]

This has always been the place for politics and religion.........

How does religion fit into politics? These are never even "debates," they're just a few pages of people shitting on each other.

[kwame k]

Crucifixion happened all the time. There were two other people crucified at the same time. It doesn't say three days.

I'm not even sure that's how that greek tale goes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus#Death

The point I was making was not about the common Roman practice of crucifixion but that Jesus' crucifixion story was the exact as the other resurrection stories from Egypt and the Greeks. I posted links before to all of them.

[kwame k]

How does religion fit into politics? These are never even "debates," they're just a few pages of people shitting on each other.

Have no idea but this has always been the place to post religious and political stuff. Have to ask the bosses why that is.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

How does religion fit into politics? These are never even "debates," they're just a few pages of people shitting on each other.

you would find those threads in the romper room or picalooza:biggrin:

[LoungeMachine]

How does religion fit into politics? These are never even "debates," they're just a few pages of people shitting on each other.

How does religion fit into politics????????!!!!!

wtf?

:lmao:

Gee, I wonder.

:gulp:

as for people shitting on each other instead of debating. Look in the mirror.

[Blackflag]

How does religion fit into politics????????!!!!!

wtf?

:lmao:

Gee, I wonder.

When you think up an answer, let me know.



as for people shitting on each other instead of debating. Look in the mirror.

If I looked in the mirror, I'd see your wife in my bed. You don't want that.

[Blackflag]

How does religion fit into politics????????!!!!!

wtf?

:lmao:

Gee, I wonder.

When you think up an answer, let me know.



as for people shitting on each other instead of debating. Look in the mirror.

If I looked in the mirror, I'd see your wife in my bed. You don't want that.

[Blackflag]

What the fuck...

[kwame k]

There an echo in here?

[LoungeMachine]

If I looked in the mirror, I'd see your wife in my bed. You don't want that.

Nor would she.

However if you saw her, you sure would be wishing, hoping, dreaming.....

:gulp:

And thanks for proving my point about you being a hypocritical doosh bag.

You never disappoint.

[Blackflag]

You never disappoint.

That's what she said.

[LoungeMachine]

That's what she said.

This morning as a matter or fact

You peeping in our windows again?

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Matter or fact? Look who can't get the shit out of their mouth when they're flustered.

She had a hard time getting it out of her mouth, too.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Matter or fact? Look who can't get the shit out of their mouth when they're flustered.

She had a hard time getting it out of her mouth, too.

hey! is this one of those two page shit fetish debates?

[LoungeMachine]

:lmao:

Can't imagine why your company can't get off the ground....

:gulp:

Maybe a few more power lunches with ex-CIA chiefs are needed...... :D

[Blackflag]

That's weak. You can do better than that.

Your wife sure did.

[LoungeMachine]

Trying to goad me with the wife insults?

Talk about "weak"

Don't worry, mancrush. You might find a woman someday.

Maybe she can help you get your company out of the shitter for you too.

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

You might find a woman someday.

Do you really think so?

[LoungeMachine]

Do you really think so?

No.

But you're used to false-hope, I imagine...

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

No.


Well, shit...then I guess I'll just keep beating on yours. She seems to like being treated like shit. Which explains why she married you.

[Blackflag]

Is it lunchtime yet?

[PETE'S BROTHER]

yes, go eat.

[LoungeMachine]

Well, shit...then I guess I'll just keep beating on yours. She seems to like being treated like shit. Which explains why she married you.

:lmao:

Angry bitter alone guy says what?

Poor guy. No wonder your mancrush on me is so strong.

:gulp:

Sorry. Try Gar.

[LoungeMachine]

yes, go eat.

Alone. :D

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Is it lunchtime yet?

there's a porkchop in every fat tire

[Blackflag]

there's a porkchop in every fat tire

Ha ha - what does that even mean?

[kwame k]

Crucifixion happened all the time. There were two other people crucified at the same time. It doesn't say three days.

I'm not even sure that's how that greek tale goes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus#Death


Here's one for ya......


There are many other interesting parallels between the mythological life of Horus and the life of Jesus Christ, who came along thousands of years later.

Horus was born in a cave. The announcement of his birth was made by an angel. The event was marked by the morning star Sirius and witnessed by shepherds and three solar deities. The child was paraded through the streets at the time of the winter solstice.

A ruler named Herut attempted to have the child Horus murdered but God told Isis to “hide thyself with thy child.” Horus began his work at the age of 30 after he was baptized by Anup the Baptiser in the river Eridanus. Anup later was beheaded.

Horus was tempted by his arch-rival Set on a mountain. During his “ministry” he had twelve disciples who traveled with him as he cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind, raised the Lazarus from the grave and walked on water. He was transfigured on a mountain.

He was crucified along with two thieves, buried in a tomb, descended into Hell, and was resurrected after three days. He was known as the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher. His Zodiac sign was Pisces, the fish.

Followers believed Horus would return to Earth and reign for a 1,000-year Millennium.

The Religious Parallels In The Horus Myth
By James Donahue

[Blackflag]

I'm sure people scour fiction all over the world to try and find some parallel, in hindsight. You could probably take any historical event and find an earlier fictional work that's similar.

[kwame k]

The point of this thread was that the Bible was built on earlier traditions and that's my point as well.......

[kwame k]

Makes total sense that people would compile stories and traditions into a new and cohesive document/religion.

Noah's Flood = Epic of Gilgamesh.

Crucifixion of Jesus = Sun God Ra or Houris.

All the stories of the bible were built upon other stories, cultures and beliefs. Get the fuck over it.

In case you missed it on the first page.....post #10.

[Blackflag]

That's probably right for the Old Testament, but there's historical evidence for Jesus Christ. I don't really think that's in dispute.

[LoungeMachine]

The point of this thread was that the Bible was built on earlier traditions and that's my point as well.......

And politicians have used it for centuries to influence elections and shape governments.

:gulp:

Only a dolt wouldn't realize the connection.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Is it lunchtime yet?

you should make a smmich outta one of these.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1266440/The-sheep-pig-pulling-wool-everybodys-eyes-.html

[LoungeMachine]

In case you missed it on the first page.....post #10.

See Also: Bill Maher's RELIGILOUS

:gulp:

Great flick

[PETE'S BROTHER]

I'm sure people scour fiction all over the world to try and find some parallel, in hindsight. You could probably take any historical event and find an earlier fictional work that's similar.

the hindenburg?

[Blackflag]

And politicians have used it for centuries to influence elections and shape governments.

Dimwit, whether or not Noah had an arc -or it was just a story - has zilch to do with politics. It's not provable, it's not debatable. It's pointless and moot and doesn't belong in the front line.

[Blackflag]

you should make a smmich outta one of these.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1266440/The-sheep-pig-pulling-wool-everybodys-eyes-.html

Dude, I'm not eating that weird thing.

[LoungeMachine]

Dude, I'm not eating that weird thing.

Bet that's the first time you've said that to a guy......

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

the hindenburg?

Around the World in 80 Days.

[jhale667]

See Also: Bill Maher's RELIGILOUS

:gulp:

Great flick


It's running on Showtime this month. Watched it again last night. GREAT movie indeed.

[Blackflag]

Bet that's the first time you've said that to a guy......

:gulp:

Could you possibly be more immature and homophobic?

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Dude, I'm not eating that weird thing.

you did, in the middle of that kfc double down thing.

[Blackflag]

you did, in the middle of that kfc double down thing.

That's not a pig. That's some kind of creepy sheep-pig hybrid.

[LoungeMachine]

Dimwit, whether or not Noah had an arc -or it was just a story - has zilch to do with politics. It's not provable, it's not debatable. It's pointless and moot and doesn't belong in the front line.

Dimwit...

YOU asked what religion has to do with politics...


How does religion fit into politics? These are never even "debates," they're just a few pages of people shitting on each other.


:gulp:

Fucking moron

[Blackflag]

Dimwit...

YOU asked what religion has to do with politics...

In the context of this thread, dimwit. Do you think this thread belongs in the front line?







Fucking moron

Is this an example of the awesome debating you expect this thread to generate?

[LoungeMachine]

Could you possibly be more immature and homophobic?

:lmao:

That's priceless coming from you, mancrush.

priceless

[Blackflag]

You like calling me "mancrush," don't you? :uck:

[kwame k]

That's probably right for the Old Testament, but there's historical evidence for Jesus Christ. I don't really think that's in dispute.

There's only one contemporary source that people use and that was Flavius Josephus', "Testimonium Flavianum" most scholars from as early as the 17th century called the validity of his account into question and most have called it an outright forgery.

This part.......


Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,--a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

...
has been demonstrated continually over the centuries to be a forgery, likely interpolated by Catholic Church historian Eusebius in the fourth century. So thorough and universal has been this debunking that very few scholars of repute continued to cite the passage after the turn of the 19th century. Indeed, the TF was rarely mentioned, except to note that it was a forgery, and numerous books by a variety of authorities over a period of 200 or so years basically took it for granted that the Testimonium Flavianum in its entirety was spurious, an interpolation and a forgery. As Dr. Gordon Stein relates:

"...the vast majority of scholars since the early 1800s have said that this quotation is not by Josephus, but rather is a later Christian insertion in his works. In other words, it is a forgery, rejected by scholars."

So well understood was this fact of forgery that these numerous authorities did not spend their precious time and space rehashing the arguments against the TF's authenticity. Nevertheless, in the past few decades apologists of questionable integrity and credibility have glommed onto the TF, because this short and dubious passage represents the most "concrete" secular, non-biblical reference to a man who purportedly shook up the world. In spite of the past debunking, the debate is currently confined to those who think the TF was original to Josephus but was Christianized, and those who credulously and self-servingly accept it as "genuine" in its entirety.

Link (http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm)

Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled

by Acharya S

[Blackflag]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

I hate Wikipedia, but I've got to go to lunch before it's too late...

[Blackflag]

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/internetpyro/MILKSHAKE.png

[kwame k]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

I hate Wikipedia, but I've got to go to lunch before it's too late...

Wha? So the guys who wrote the Bible are the source material? Not verified by outside disinterested sources and considering most of the NT was written how long after Jesus' death?

[Blackflag]

I'm out to lunch. And waiting for a female companion to arrive.

So take that, you hating bitches!!

[kwame k]

I'm out to lunch. And waiting for a female companion to arrive.

So take that, you hating bitches!!

I always wondered how that worked......do they get paid for travel time or just the time they spend with you :biggrin:

[Satan]

Say it ain't so, Satan! :lmao:
OK....

It ain't so! http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

[Blackflag]

I always wondered how that worked......do they get paid for travel time or just the time they spend with you :biggrin:

It's a flat fee, HATER.

[kwame k]

Don't hate the player, hate the game.......

[PETE'S BROTHER]

It's a flat fee, HATER.

if ya get one with big tits is it a "bodacious" fee?

[kwame k]

Excellent point........

Discuss.

[Blackflag]

I think you'd just consider that a bonus. I'm not paying extra for biggins.

[Seshmeister]

Wha? So the guys who wrote the Bible are the source material? Not verified by outside disinterested sources and considering most of the NT was written how long after Jesus' death?

Yes that's exactly right.

The whole might of the scholars of Western civilisation over 1000s of years and they can't find a contemporary source. They also can't find a non Christian source within 3 generations. Things that would have absolutely definitely been documented by the Romans if they were true are just not there. Fuck Herod died 7 years before the Jesus character was born.

Paul either made the whole thing up or embelished it on elements of a few guys that were wandering about at the time.

[BigBadBrian]

Yes that's exactly right.

The whole might of the scholars of Western civilisation over 1000s of years and they can't find a contemporary source. They also can't find a non Christian source within 3 generations. Things that would have absolutely definitely been documented by the Romans if they were true are just not there. Fuck Herod died 7 years before the Jesus character was born.

Paul either made the whole thing up or embelished it on elements of a few guys that were wandering about at the time.

Sesh, post your sources. I'm not being my usual controversial, shit-stirring, inflammatory, trying-to-piss-all-the-liberals-off self here, just genuinely curious. :gulp:

[Seshmeister]

I can't post a source to there being no sources. :)

Get someone to post a source and then we can go through the whole thing about the only vaguely contemporary source being Josephus and how that has been discredited.

Actually I had a quick look and it seems that since the last time we went through this someone has put in on Wiki so that may save time. :)

[Seshmeister]

Sorry just noticed Kwame had posted about Josephus above.