Whose country is this?

[ELVIS]

http://www.wnd.com/images/PATsname.jpg (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=146341)

April 26, 2010

With the support of 70 percent of its citizens, Arizona has ordered sheriffs and police to secure the border and remove illegal aliens, half a million of whom now reside there.

Arizona acted because the U.S. government has abdicated its constitutional duty to protect the states from invasion and refuses to enforce America's immigration laws.

"We in Arizona have been more than patient waiting for Washington to act," said Gov. Jan Brewer. "But decades of inaction and misguided policy have created an unacceptable situation."

We have a crisis in Arizona because we have a failed state in Washington.

What is the response of Barack Obama, who took an oath to see to it that federal laws are faithfully executed?

He is siding with the law-breakers. He is pandering to the ethnic lobbies. He is not berating a Mexican regime that aids and abets this invasion of the country of which he is commander in chief. Instead, he attacks the government of Arizona for trying to fill a gaping hole in law enforcement left by his own dereliction of duty.

He has denounced Arizona as "misguided." He has called on the Justice Department to ensure that Arizona's sheriffs and police do not violate anyone's civil rights. But he has said nothing about the rights of the people of Arizona who must deal with the costs of having hundreds of thousands of lawbreakers in their midst.

How's that for Andrew Jackson-style leadership?

Obama has done everything but his duty to enforce the law.

Undeniably, making it a state as well as a federal crime to be in this country illegally, and requiring police to check the immigration status of anyone they have a "reasonable suspicion" is here illegally, is tough and burdensome. But what choice did Arizona have?

The state has a fiscal crisis caused in part by the burden of providing schooling and social welfare for illegals and their families, who consume far more in services than they pay in taxes and who continue to pour in. Even John McCain is now calling for 3,000 troops on the border.

Police officers and a prominent rancher have been murdered. There have been kidnappings believed to be tied to the Mexican drug cartels. There are nightly high-speed chases through the barrios where innocent people are constantly at risk.

If Arizona does not get control of the border and stop the invasion, U.S. citizens will stop coming to Arizona and will begin to depart, as they are already fleeing California.

What we are talking about here is the Balkanization and breakup of a nation into ethnic enclaves. A country that cannot control its borders isn't really a country anymore, Ronald Reagan reminded us.

The tasks that Arizonans are themselves undertaking are ones that belong by right, the Constitution and federal law to the Border Patrol, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and Homeland Security.

Arizona has been compelled to assume the feds' role because the feds won't do their job. And for that dereliction of duty the buck stops on the desk of the president of the United States.

Why is Obama paralyzed? Why does he not enforce the law, even if he dislikes it, by punishing the businessmen who hire illegals and by sending the 12 million to 20 million illegals back home? President Eisenhower did it. Why won't he?

Because he is politically correct. Because he owes a big debt to the Hispanic lobby that helped deliver two-thirds of that vote in 2008. Though most citizens of Hispanic descent in Arizona want the border protected and the laws enforced, the Hispanic lobby demands that the law be changed.

Fair enough. But the nation rose up as one to reject the "path-to-citizenship" – i.e., amnesty – that the 2007 plan of George W. Bush, McCain, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama envisioned.

Al Sharpton threatens to go to Phoenix and march in the streets against the new Arizona law. Let him go.

Let us see how many African-Americans, who are today frozen out of the 8 million jobs held by illegal aliens that might otherwise go to them or their children, will march to defend an invasion for which they are themselves paying the heaviest price.

Last year, while Americans were losing a net of 5 million jobs, the U.S. government – Bush and Obama both – issued 1,131,000 green cards to legal immigrants to come and take the jobs that did open up, a flood of immigrants equaled in only four other years in our history.

What are we doing to our own people?

Whose country is this, anyway?

America today has an establishment that, because it does not like the immigration laws, countenances and condones wholesale violation of those laws.

Nevertheless, under those laws, the U.S. government is obligated to deport illegal aliens and punish businesses that knowingly hire them.

This is not an option. It is an obligation.

Can anyone say Barack Obama is meeting that obligation?


:elvis:

[fryingdutchman]

If they're not here legally, throw 'em the fuck out.

Would any other country in the world tolerate Americans glomming off of their government illegally? I doubt it...

Why is the U.S. always portrayed as the bad guy when it tries to kick out the drains on its system?

[fryingdutchman]

And throw Al Sharpton the fuck out of here too....just on principle alone.

Irritating, opportunistic, media-whoring fuck that he is....

[Seshmeister]

Whose country is this?

Arizona is land that was stolen from Mexico.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Arizona is land that was stolen from Mexico.

there wasn't a treaty signed or anything?

[Seshmeister]

That would be the treaty the US wrote and got the interim government of a militarily occupied Mexico to sign. :)

[PETE'S BROTHER]

strong armed, i'm sure. probably signed it for them, with ink stolen from india on a parchment stolen from cypress.:tongue0011:

[binnie]

"Don't you think this outlaw thing done got out of hand....."

[Blackflag]

Actually, the U.S. bought it from Mexico. And I guess it wasn't Mexico's land to begin with, either. They stole it from indians and didn't even pay for it.

Not that that has anything to do with illegal immigration. But if we're spouting random bullshit P.C. facts, we might as well be accurate.

[Seshmeister]

It's all just chickens coming home to roost in the same way that Europe is now full of immigrants from our former colonies.

Over 20% of the population of Arizona were Mexicans in 1850 now it's about 30%.

You know one way to stop immigration? Stop having work that needs done.

[chefcraig]

Weren't we talking about this like 4 days ago? Oh yeah, we were: Websters Defines Illegals (http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?58763-webster-s-defines-illegal-as..). :tongue0011:

[Little Texan]

Arizona is land that was stolen from Mexico.

Wrong. We got that land after we kicked Mexico's ass in the Mexican-American War, then we paid them for all the land we got from them even though we didn't have to.

[Blackflag]

It's all just chickens coming home to roost in the same way that Europe is now full of immigrants from our former colonies.

Those are legal citizens of Britain.

[chefcraig]

Those are legal citizens of Britain.

Yep, one of the downsides to imperialism is that sadly, one day you might have to deal with the pesky problem of the people you once subjugated. :duh:

[Seshmeister]

Wrong. We got that land after we kicked Mexico's ass in the Mexican-American War, then we paid them for all the land we got from them even though we didn't have to.



Sorry the correct term for taking something after 'kicking ass' is robbery. :)

[PETE'S BROTHER]

you mean paying for something is called robbery?

[Anonymous]

Arizona is land that was stolen from Mexico.

Yeah, don't forget that the rest was stolen from them Injuns.

Nasty savages that wouldn't sit down whilst being deprived of their land & lifestyle. The nerve of some people.

Cheers! :bottle:

[Little Texan]

Sorry the correct term for taking something after 'kicking ass' is robbery. :)

They signed it over to us in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, then we PAID them for the land, although it was half the price of what we offered them for the land before the war. To the victors go the spoils, and we got northern Mexico for half price. :biggrin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo

[binnie]

Those are legal citizens of Britain.

Some are, some aren't. Whilst the pressence of illegal immigrants is not as pronounced as many far right British parites like to proclaim, it is still an issue here.

Most of our immigration is legal, however. Belonging to the European Union essentially means that Britain has to open its doors to just about anyone from any other member state. It's a good thing to my mind - more British people actually work abroad than foreigners coming to work here.

[sadaist]

And throw Al Sharpton the fuck out of here too....just on principle alone.

Irritating, opportunistic, media-whoring fuck that he is....

Sharpton could be tossed just based on his hair-do.

Yep folks, another hair thread.

[Blackflag]

Some are, some aren't. Whilst the pressence of illegal immigrants is not as pronounced as many far right British parites like to proclaim, it is still an issue here.

Most of our immigration is legal, however. Belonging to the European Union essentially means that Britain has to open its doors to just about anyone from any other member state. It's a good thing to my mind - more British people actually work abroad than foreigners coming to work here.

England is the Mexico of the EU.

[Seshmeister]

you mean paying for something is called robbery?

Say I come up to you and say I want your Rolex watch and you say no fuck off.

If I then I beat the shit out you and take it the fact I threw a few bucks to you as I walk away leaving you lying bleeding in the gutter doesn't stop it from being robbery. :)

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Say I come up to you and say I want your Rolex watch and you say no fuck off.

If I then I beat the shit out you and take it the fact I threw a few bucks to you as I walk away leaving you lying bleeding in the gutter doesn't stop it from being robbery. :)

sesh, if it was you, i would gladly give you my watch, and a couple bucks ta boot.:baaa: and i understand your point.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Say I come up to you and say I want your Rolex watch and you say no fuck off.

If I then I beat the shit out you and take it the fact I threw a few bucks to you as I walk away leaving you lying bleeding in the gutter doesn't stop it from being robbery. :)

if i signed a bill of sale?:biggrin:

[Blackflag]

i understand your point.

I don't see what any of that has to do with entering the country illegally.

How about this for a moronic point? Somebody robs you of your watch, then takes it home. Do you get to break into their house to retrieve it? No. How about if somebody robbed your grandfather, took his watch, and put it in their house. Do you get to break into that house 150 years later and retrieve it? Double no.

I'm not sure if he just lacks a point, or if he's trying to say the Mexicans have the moral high ground, but either way, Sesh gets the "double no" on his idiotic stealing Arizona comment.

[Nitro Express]

Try going into Mexico illegally and see what happens. Better yet, try going in armed like their drug thugs do here. They will do something about it and at best, you end up in a Mexican jail.

[Nitro Express]

The bottom line is the Democrats want amnesty because they want all the votes. This is what it's about. Power. Period. Not to help anyone.

[Terry]

On a human level, I'd like to think I could show some empathy toward someone from another country who wants to come to America for a chance at a better life.

However, I really don't see the problem with Arizonian law enforcement using racial profiling (um, the illegals there are most likely going to be Mexican, so some form of racial targeting is necessary by default) to stop people, ask them for their proof of identification and detain them if they shouldn't be in this country. Showing identification is just a necessary thing in this country, be it buying airline tickets/boarding a plane, using a credit card (one SHOULD be asked by various store clerks for a driver's license when using a credit card for any and every purchase), etc.

Yes, this country was founded by immigrants (the whole "Native American"/Indian biz to one side), but this isn't the 1920's anymore. The country may well have been founded by immigrants, but the USA is pretty well established by now. My own level of sympathy for the rights of those who made their first act to get into America one of breaking the law are just plain used up. If I feel this way, I can only imagine the way the majority of LEGAL RESIDENTS OF ARIZONA must feel. There are procedures to follow in order to become a citizen. Illegal immigrant aliens decided not to follow them. Maybe detaining these people when they are found and having them work in non-voluntary penal system labor camps building a wall from Texas to California, and then chucking them over the wall when they are through, is the message that needs to be sent.

Illegal aliens from Canada are okay in my book, though, despite my being able to hear them up there at night sharpening up their skates, getting ready to come down here and STEAL OUR CHEESE!

thome, got any extra aluminum foil? My Reynolds Wrap bandana is starting to wear a bit thin.

[Mushroom]

I am tired of people always faulting the US for conquering the "native" population (let's put that word in quotes) and robbing/stealing land to establish a country. that history is out of our control ....and the US is one among 200 other nations with a similar history. Today the difference is illegal Mexicans -- and other nationalities so don't rail me on that stereotype -- are invading the US at an alarmingly unchecked rate that has big Negative consequences that seem to outweigh the benefits (but let's be factual, no PC: of all immigrants, illegals from mexico have the biggest negative impact).

US must defend its borders ...from invaders who think they are entitled to walk in on us and establish residency. Let's use a bigger umbrella term: Homeland Security. The US is trying to use a legal system rather than shoot on sight. But oh no, that's not good enough either. :fufu:

[Seshmeister]

I'm surprised with people being happy about a law where the cops can ask you for ID if they don't like the look of you and I assume can arrest you if you fail to show any ID to them.

[Mushroom]

this law is one that will supposedly be exercised incidentallly, meaning: if an officer pulls you over for speeding, he's going to ask you for ID... and he can have suspicions of your legal status, just as he could have suspicions of you being stoned or drunk. I don't have a problem with this. it could be a slippery slope, but it's only in AZ, not US.

[Terry]

I'm surprised with people being happy about a law where the cops can ask you for ID if they don't like the look of you and I assume can arrest you if you fail to show any ID to them.

Happy wouldn't be a word I'd use to describe how I feel about where this country is at in terms of illegal immigrants.

What are the alternatives, though? I can't say as I blame Arizona for taking SOME kind of action. After the influx of the last three decades and little to nothing effective being proposed, it does seem clear that more of the diddling around status quo just isn't going to cut it anymore.

All it requires is that a person carry proof of identification on them. If they are legalized immigrants and can prove it, then in theory they won't have any problems.

I mean, not to bust balls or be a dick, Sesh, but what other options do we have at this point? More of the same that got us where we are today? Maybe it's all easy for me to say that [the new AZ procedures] aren't that unfair, since I'm white and born in the US...

[Seshmeister]

I mean, not to bust balls or be a dick, Sesh, but what other options do we have at this point? More of the same that got us where we are today? Maybe it's all easy for me to say that [the new AZ procedures] aren't that unfair, since I'm white and born in the US...

I dunno. My earlier posts were half in jest in response to the tone of the 'It's our country not yours' kind of thing which I always find a bit funny especially coming from Americans.

I noticed a change in attitude amongst the average Joe last time I was in Florida, things seemed to have got much worse or at least the perception had. I get a bit confused though.

For example I was talking to a cab driver about how I always thought that working in a toll station must be one of the worst jobs in the world because you couldn't have a conversation with anyone but you also couldn't listen to a radio or whatever and it was incredibly boring. He said that the job used to pay really well with great pensions and so on but the Mexicans had come and undercut the US workers and now the pay and conditions were shit.

I didn't want to argue with him but I wondered how could illegals get jobs working on tolls? If they could how did that drive down the conditions of the original workers and also it's a shitty job in any case so why was this driver so annoyed about it? And should toll station workers make great money anyway?

That said every toll does seem to be staffed by a hispanic these days...

[Unchainme]

I dunno. My earlier posts were half in jest in response to the tone of the 'It's our country not yours' kind of thing which I always find a bit funny especially coming from Americans.

I noticed a change in attitude amongst the average Joe last time I was in Florida, things seemed to have got much worse or at least the perception had. I get a bit confused though.

For example I was talking to a cab driver about how I always thought that working in a toll station must be one of the worst jobs in the world because you couldn't have a conversation with anyone but you also couldn't listen to a radio or whatever and it was incredibly boring. He said that the job used to pay really well with great pensions and so on but the Mexicans had come and undercut the US workers and now the pay and conditions were shit.

I didn't want to argue with him but I wondered how could illegals get jobs working on tolls? If they could how did that drive down the conditions of the original workers and also it's a shitty job in any case so why was this driver so annoyed about it? And should toll station workers make great money anyway?

That said every toll does seem to be staffed by a hispanic these days...

not in ohio and pennsylvania, actually, generally I see an african american or a caucasion working whenever I've had to use the turnpike. but generally we're more of a union oriented state, that is some weird mixture of blue and red.

florida on the other hand is probably the poster child for a red-state.

[Unchainme]

I go by this.

Please feel free to enter the country and be a part of this great democracy, but for god sake, SIGN THE GUEST BOOK.

obviously some reforms need to be made to this system, I know of a family in my particular suburb who hail from south africa, and are the stereotypical WASP looking sort, dad has a college degree, kids excel in school, and are about as stereotypical ideally American as one could want, yet it takes them 6 YEARS TO BECOME CITIZENS!?

And perhaps there would be less illegal aliens if we didn't make the price to become an american citizen so fucking high?

something needs to be done to in that department, perhaps the barrier to becoming an american citizen is decrease if you have a certain level of education, And overall the process is made cheaper and less expensive.

The average mexican immigrant is not the problem in this, in fact, I would adovocate that if they really want to become real american citizens, than they should be allowed to do as such, but again, I'm fine with making sure drugs are not brought into this country as well, and steps need to be taken to decrease that.

[Nickdfresh]

The bottom line is the Democrats want amnesty because they want all the votes. This is what it's about. Power. Period. Not to help anyone.

Oh fucking please! Reagan was the first president to offer amnesty. Republican politicians having been covering the festered asses of corporations that make their policy to hire illegals as part of their beliefs and their ideological disdain for the American worker and unions. It's not just about "power"; it's pretty fucking clearly about greed and exploitation. But you can't have your cake and eat it too! You can't have your companies invite people to cross the border for cheap labor to lower YOUR PRICES of goods and services--then suddenly throw them out when the economy turns shit--then just pretend they're all "law-breakers" and criminals when by-and-large we've ALL profited from the crime...

[Nickdfresh]

I'm surprised with people being happy about a law where the cops can ask you for ID if they don't like the look of you and I assume can arrest you if you fail to show any ID to them.

Yeah, it's funny when the "libertarian" assholes completely contradict themselves on select issues...

[Nickdfresh]

I don't see what any of that has to do with entering the country illegally.

How about this for a moronic point? Somebody robs you of your watch, then takes it home. Do you get to break into their house to retrieve it? No. How about if somebody robbed your grandfather, took his watch, and put it in their house. Do you get to break into that house 150 years later and retrieve it? Double no.

I'm not sure if he just lacks a point, or if he's trying to say the Mexicans have the moral high ground, but either way, Sesh gets the "double no" on his idiotic stealing Arizona comment.

But as long as they have brown skin, they shouldn't have the same protections against illegal search and seizure as you do. Right asshole?

[Blackflag]

But as long as they have brown skin, they shouldn't have the same protections against illegal search and seizure as you do. Right asshole?

Where does it say that anywhere in my post?

I really think some of you morons have imaginary arguments in your head and attribute them to me.

[fryingdutchman]

I'm surprised with people being happy about a law where the cops can ask you for ID if they don't like the look of you and I assume can arrest you if you fail to show any ID to them.

File that one under "Desperate times call for desperate measures"....

[fryingdutchman]

And perhaps there would be less illegal aliens if we didn't make the price to become an american citizen so fucking high?


I dunno about that one, 'chain.

For most, it's a price well-worth paying considering the shithole conditions that they are leaving behing in their native countries to come here.

And while America certainly has its flaws and problems, the return on the investment that most immigrants get makes it well worth the hassle and the expense.

[hideyoursheep]

$750 to take the citizenship test. But first, one must enter the country legally.

I tell you this....If I were one of the 12th generation Spanish-American residents of Arizona and was constantly being pulled over by the police, I'd be pissed.

[fryingdutchman]

If I were one of the 12th generation Spanish-American residents of Arizona and was constantly being pulled over by the police, I'd be pissed.

Understandable to be pissed....but wouldn't they be equally pissed knowing how many illegals of their same ethnic background are suckling at the teat of the American dream without having to follow the same 'correct' path that their ancestors did?

[ELVIS]

Some do pay into the system because they work with fake Social Security numbers...

[Seshmeister]

One the candidates in the election here said that illegals if they had behaved well and could speak English should be allowed to apply to become citizens after 10 years.

Everyone went nuts. :)

[ELVIS]

Because they are nuts...

[ELVIS]

If we're going to "round up" illegals why not trace those fraudulent SSNs to the employers who hired the illegal immigrants and fine the employers for every illegal they currently have on payroll?



Great idea...

[Mushroom]

If we're going to "round up" illegals why not trace those fraudulent SSNs to the employers who hired the illegal immigrants and fine the employers for every illegal they currently have on payroll? Ultimately, we have this problem because of employers who hire and exploit these poor people who come over just looking to make a decent living and support their families back home.


this is already being done in my state but it's not a definitive solution.

[Mushroom]

the AZ law gives the state the power to address their immigration issue because the Federal Govt is not effective enough. it gives the state police the power to 1)...ask for ID under reasonable suspicion (which is nothing new, we already gave that power to the police), and then 2) detain that person if they cannot prove legal status.

[sadaist]

Why are so many of you under the false assumption that the police can or will stop people just because they might "look" like an illegal immigrant? The law is extremely clear that this is not okay. Now if a person is being lawfully questioned for another crime, and there is reasonable suspicion they are here illegally as well, they can be questioned. Last time I was stopped by police I was asked for my identification card, proof of registration, and proof of insurance. The required documentation so I may legally drive. Why is it so awful that now they can require documentation of legally being inside the country as well?

Racial profiling will probably happen. And there will always be cops who beat Rodney King with a mag lite. (and there are procedures in place to deal with those bad cops) But the AZ law just passed has nothing to do with a bad seed cop that might pop up on rare occasions.

Stop listening to the Stewart, Olbermann, Sharpton & Jackson types out there and try reading up on the actual law itself. The last thing any state wants to do is tie up the courts, all their resources and police officers valuable time by dealing with racial profiling law suits.

[Mushroom]

CA, AZ, TX and NM police departments are facing the issue of pulling drivers over for moving violations and finding in many cases that the driver has no registration, no car insurance and no ID because that person is "undocumented" --- consequently the police are no longer writing tickets for these "undocumented" aliens because they have no way to force the "undocumented" aliens to pay for the tickets.

[Blackflag]

Why are so many of you under the false assumption that the police can or will stop people just because they might "look" like an illegal immigrant? The law is extremely clear that this is not okay. Now if a person is being lawfully questioned for another crime, and there is reasonable suspicion they are here illegally as well, they can be questioned. Last time I was stopped by police I was asked for my identification card, proof of registration, and proof of insurance. The required documentation so I may legally drive. Why is it so awful that now they can require documentation of legally being inside the country as well?

Racial profiling will probably happen. And there will always be cops who beat Rodney King with a mag lite. (and there are procedures in place to deal with those bad cops) But the AZ law just passed has nothing to do with a bad seed cop that might pop up on rare occasions.

Stop listening to the Stewart, Olbermann, Sharpton & Jackson types out there and try reading up on the actual law itself. The last thing any state wants to do is tie up the courts, all their resources and police officers valuable time by dealing with racial profiling law suits.

Do you have the text of it?

[ELVIS]

How is asking for identification illegal search and seizure ??

[Blackflag]

It's not, as long as there's reasonable suspicion. If there's no reasonable suspicion of anything, the fourth amendment requires you to go fuck yourself and leave me alone.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

CA, AZ, TX and NM police departments are facing the issue of pulling drivers over for moving violations and finding in many cases that the driver has no registration, no car insurance and no ID because that person is "undocumented" --- consequently the police are no longer writing tickets for these "undocumented" aliens because they have no way to force the "undocumented" aliens to pay for the tickets.

a human being pulled out in front of my wife a few years back. she t-boned his car and fucked up the front of our bronco. no insurance, not his car, and no i.d. they wrote him a citation to some name he gave and sent him on his way, cause they legally could not enforce immigration laws.

[Blackflag]

CA, AZ, TX and NM police departments are facing the issue of pulling drivers over for moving violations and finding in many cases that the driver has no registration, no car insurance and no ID because that person is "undocumented" --- consequently the police are no longer writing tickets for these "undocumented" aliens because they have no way to force the "undocumented" aliens to pay for the tickets.

That's how it is where I live. There was a news story saying if you're illegal, you can park wherever you want now and you won't get towed. Meanwhile, I got towed recently...:mad0233:

[PETE'S BROTHER]

law breakin' fool

[PETE'S BROTHER]

why is it a problem?

[Mushroom]

Is it a false assumption?.....

It is a false assumption to think that the police can legally stop people just because they might "look" like an illegal immigrant. I don't support that because it's gestapo-style governance.

Your question: under what circumstances would someone be "reasonably suspicious" of being an illegal immigrant? The General Answer: a person not being able to produce authentic identification.

[binnie]

England is the Mexico of the EU.

Not really sure what you mean

[Seshmeister]

Neither does he.

[Mushroom]

That's circular reasoning. Why would someone be suspicous of being an illegal? Because he failed to produce authentic ID. No shit.

But why would someone be requested to show ID in the first place?



I don't understand your circular question. Have you ever been asked to produce identification? Somebody would be requested to show ID to an officer in the event of one of the following:
- Pulled over for speeding
- Information gathering for traffic accident investigation
- A skirmish between drunk bar patrons
- Border Patrol check-point

We can hypothesize more incidences. But the point is that this law gives the State of AZ the authority to detain somebody because they are here illegally; the law does not give the State of AZ the authority to ask for ID just because the officer has a grudge against mexicans.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

That's circular reasoning. Why would someone be suspicous of being an illegal? Because he failed to produce authentic ID. No shit.

But why would someone be requested to show ID in the first place?

oh for for fucks sake, cop says "sir/maam, i've pulled you over for swerving in traffic and crossing the centerline. i need license, registration, and proof of insurance." driver says "no se" or however you say " i don't know" in any other language. RED FLAG.



If you had to ask, then you don't see the intrinisc racism and xenophobia of this law.

i see the "sharpton" effect you are spinning, yes.

[MAX]

Fuck this is already old... :rolleyes:

People bitching and whining cos Arizona is now going to enforce LAWS against ILLEGAL activity? Jeesh...

Seriously, there's no fucking argument here whatsoever. The police ask for someone's greencard and they don't have one... Get the fuck out!!! NEXT!!! :mad:

[MAX]

I don't understand your circular question. Have you ever been asked to produce identification? Somebody would be requested to show ID to an officer in the event of one of the following:
- Pulled over for speeding
- Information gathering for traffic accident investigation
- A skirmish between drunk bar patrons
- Border Patrol check-point

We can hypothesize more incidences. But the point is that this law gives the State of AZ the authority to detain somebody because they are here illegally; the law does not give the State of AZ the authority to ask for ID just because the officer has a grudge against mexicans.

Who gives a flying fuck as to why they're pulled over and/or the aftermath? If they're illegally in this country, they've already broken the law and isn't that what the police are paid to do? Enforce the fucking law? :confused:

It's kind of like the cops pulling over a car with a WHITEY driving and the car's full of suspicious loot. The cop asks for ID, is that profiling? Holy shit!!! The motherfucker just robbed a house and broke the law!!!

Ehhhhh... Let him go cos he was profiled by those rotten police doing their job!!! What about whitey's rights? :rolleyes:

[MAX]

Seriously, it's a cop's right to pull over ANYONE if they fucking feel like it!!! So what if it's profiling and they get someone breaking the law? Kinda like fishing. :D

[LoungeMachine]

Who gives a flying fuck as to why they're pulled over and/or the aftermath? :

The US Constitution?

My issue isn't why an undocumented person here illegally is pulled over, it's why ANYONE is without probable cause.

It's easy to say "good thing, too" with 20/20 hindsight.

But isn't it ironic that we're talking about protecting the USA, the same country that grants us citizen rights AGAINST unwarranted searches?

:gulp:

I'm all for granting citizenship to those who deserve it, it deporting those who deserve deportation.

But don't trample on the Constitution to do it.

[LoungeMachine]

Seriously, it's a cop's right to pull over ANYONE if they fucking feel like it!!!

wtf?

Are you kidding me?

No, it is not.

:gulp:

Not sure what country/time you're living in

[PETE'S BROTHER]

i certainly do not know you personally. i respect what i do know of you here on the board. i wasn't comparing you to the man at all. i was simply referring to focusing on one aspect of this, in a hypothetical situation, and screaming racism.

f you had to ask, then you don't see the intrinisc racism and xenophobia of this law.

maybe i don't see it, cause it isn't there. you are implying these things could happen, but it is not written in the bill.

[Seshmeister]

wtf?

Are you kidding me?

No, it is not.

:gulp:

Not sure what country/time you're living in


If it was up to him I would guess Germany around about 1940.

[MAX]

Now you like the constitution? Fuck, I was under the impression it was outdated but now it needs to be upheld?

[PETE'S BROTHER]

sorry, my quoting skills are impaired today.:baaa:

[MAX]

If it was up to him I would guess Germany around about 1940.

Fucking A, I'm so fucking sick of people comparing my beliefs to that of the fucking Nazis!!! :mad:

Asking for some illegal's greencard is not the same as exterminating 40 million Jewish people on a whim!!!

[LoungeMachine]

Now you like the constitution? Fuck, I was under the impression it was outdated but now it needs to be upheld?

What gave you that impression?

:gulp:

[MAX]

Oh and speaking of Nazi behavior, who were the cocksucker's smearing AZ's state capitol with swastika's made from refried beans? Oh wait, it was the peaceful peeps protesting it? :rolleyes:

I thought that cunt Nancy Pulosi wasn't going to tolerate that shit? :confused:

[LoungeMachine]

Fucking A, I'm so fucking sick of people comparing my beliefs to that of the fucking Nazis!!! :mad:

Asking for some illegal's greencard is not the same as exterminating 40 million Jewish people on a whim!!!

Nobody is arguing with asking "some illegal for his green card"

But your stance that cops are free to pull over anyone they want, for whatever reason, and YOU have to prove you're a citizen is utter bullshit, without PROBABLE CAUSE

:gulp:

[MAX]

What gave you that impression?

:gulp:

I apologize and I retract that regarding yourself. I was doing exactly the type of behavior I'm so vocally against by lumping you in with the masses.

Again, I'm truly sorry and hope you'll accept my apology?

[LoungeMachine]

Oh and speaking of Nazi behavior, who were the cocksucker's smearing AZ's state capitol with swastika's made from refried beans? Oh wait, it was the peaceful peeps protesting it? :rolleyes:

I thought that cunt Nancy Pulosi wasn't going to tolerate that shit? :confused:


Nice deflection.

Can we stay on the subject at hand?

Why do you think it's perfectly okay for law enforcement to pull ANYONE over for ANY REASON at ANYTIME without probable cause?

:gulp:

So much for LAND OF THE FREE

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Nobody is arguing with asking "some illegal for his green card"

But your stance that cops are free to pull over anyone they want, for whatever reason, and YOU have to prove you're a citizen is utter bullshit, without PROBABLE CAUSE

:gulp:

so we all agree except chan

[MAX]

Nobody is arguing with asking "some illegal for his green card"

But your stance that cops are free to pull over anyone they want, for whatever reason, and YOU have to prove you're a citizen is utter bullshit, without PROBABLE CAUSE

:gulp:

Dude, I can be pulled over for whatever the fuck and I could give a shit less. Why is that? Cos I'm legal and not breaking the law, PERIOD!!!

[MAX]

Nice deflection.

Can we stay on the subject at hand?

Why do you think it's perfectly okay for law enforcement to pull ANYONE over for ANY REASON at ANYTIME without probable cause?

:gulp:

So much for LAND OF THE FREE

Seshy brought in the bullshit Nazi fucking reference and it fucking pissed me off!!!

[LoungeMachine]

I apologize and I retract that regarding yourself. I was doing exactly the type of behavior I'm so vocally against by lumping you in with the masses.

Again, I'm truly sorry and hope you'll accept my apology?


Dude, we're cool.

I have my issues with the way people interpret the Fifth Amendment, sure.... and some parts of the Constitution are racist and outdated, but a right to privacy in sacred IMHO

:gulp:

[Unchainme]

BTW, if you guys want a TRUE libetarian take on Immigration, I recommend giving this a viewing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9ffO9mLlEo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnBN0trSE3c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y13DzxfrjY&feature=related

[MAX]

Lounge,

Have you ever been a police officer or a border patrolman? Even an air marshall or a fucking rent-a-cop for that matter? Please, feel free to define what makes up their "probable cause?" Than you. :)

[LoungeMachine]

Dude, I can be pulled over for whatever the fuck and I could give a shit less. Why is that? Cos I'm legal and not breaking the law, PERIOD!!!

And that's fine, but that's YOU.

Because MAX is fine with it, doesnt mean the rest of us give up our rights as US Citizens, correct?

I'm legal too. But if a cop pulls me over because he FEELS like it, and doesnt at least MAKE UP an excuse for probable cause, he's in trouble.

:gulp:

And we dont need to look at 1940's Germany for this type of behavior. Just look at some "democracies" like Iraq and Afghanistan

[MAX]

Dude, we're cool.

I have my issues with the way people interpret the Fifth Amendment, sure.... and some parts of the Constitution are racist and outdated, but a right to privacy in sacred IMHO

:gulp:

Thanks bro and I hope you know I mean that? I was politically profiling you on that one. lol

[LoungeMachine]

Lounge,

Have you ever been a police officer or a border patrolman? Even an air marshall or a fucking rent-a-cop for that matter? Please, feel free to define what makes up their "probable cause?" Than you. :)

My step father was a beat cop for 20 years.

My brother IS a highway patrol officer, has been for 12 years.

:gulp:

You're not talking to an idiot here.

[Blackflag]

I have my issues with the way people interpret the Fifth Amendment, sure....

Which part, the self-incrimination part?




and some parts of the Constitution are racist and outdated, but a right to privacy in sacred IMHO

You can't pick and choose which rights you think we should have. Either support the Constitution, or don't.

[hambon4lif]

Seriously, it's a cop's right to pull over ANYONE if they fucking feel like it!!!LOL!

It's not their "right" to do that, but it doesn't get in the way or prevent them from doing it anyways.

....I actually feel sorry for the people who are naive enough to believe that the 4th Ammendment still exists.

[Guitar Shark]

Oh look, MAX is trying to swim in the deep end of the intelligence pool again.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Oh look, MAX is trying to swim in the deep end of the intelligence pool again.

oooh, does it have a diving board?:)

[Guitar Shark]

You're not talking to an idiot here.

Not on this issue, perhaps, but c'mon.

[LoungeMachine]

Which part, the self-incrimination part?




You can't pick and choose which rights you think we should have. Either support the Constitution, or don't.


LMMFAO

As I was typing it, I was thinking make sure to say the SECOND

As for your second part, i never said I was picking and choosing, I said they were racist and outdated.


Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 for instance.

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

For the people that don't believe in a police state I don't have a US law degree but the crux of this comes down to the meaning of single phrase.


B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

The key then is what does 'lawful contact' mean?

If it meant they can check your immigrant status after you have already been stopped for another crime I would guess that a lot of people wouldn't have such a big problem with this.

Lawful contact though doesn't actually seem to have any defined legal meaning in the US so is incredibly broad and basically just means that the cop hasn't done anything illegal up to that point.

Seems to me this is a bad law because it's vague and will be appealed against.

[LoungeMachine]

Not on this issue, perhaps, but c'mon.

:lmao:

Point granted.

Plenty of issues that I qualify as an IDIOT for :D

:gulp:

fucking lawyers

[Seshmeister]

My step father was a beat cop for 20 years.

My brother IS a highway patrol officer, has been for 12 years.

:gulp:

You're not talking to an idiot here.



No you're talking to the brother of an idiot.


Sorry it was just too easy... ;) :)

[Seshmeister]

Jeez you can't even tell when that smiley is winking, that's going to cause a few fights around here...

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Seems to me this is a bad law because it's vague and will be appealed against.

i think anybody would be hardpressed to find one that isn't.:umm:

[LoungeMachine]

For the people that don't believe in a police state I don't have a US law degree but the crux of this comes down to the meaning of single phrase.



The key then is what does 'lawful contact' mean?

If it meant they can check your immigrant status after you have already been stopped for another crime I would guess that a lot of people wouldn't have such a big problem with this.

Lawful contact though doesn't actually seem to have any defined legal meaning in the US so is incredibly broad and basically just means that the cop hasn't done anything illegal up to that point.

Seems to me this is a bad law because it's vague and will be appealed against.


Yep.

When laws contain the terms "resonable" and practicable" it just leaves the door wide open for interpretation and ABUSE

:gulp:

It'll be interesting to read what Sotomayor thinks of this when in eventually makes it to the USSC

[PETE'S BROTHER]

What now? I agreed if someone was caught in the act of committing a crime and asked to show ID, that's fine.

ok, musta missed it.

[LoungeMachine]

Jeez you can't even tell when that smiley is winking, that's going to cause a few fights around here...

It's okay, I got the joke. :D

Cop jokes run in the family, trust me.

:gulp:

[MAX]

Oh look, MAX is trying to swim in the deep end of the intelligence pool again.

Oh, your happy place? If it actually did exist here, you'd have drowned long ago. :rolleyes: ;)

[Seshmeister]

Fucking A, I'm so fucking sick of people comparing my beliefs to that of the fucking Nazis!!! :mad:



You see most people would sit down and think 'I wonder why everyone keeps thinking that about me. How can I stop that happening?'

[LoungeMachine]

Oh look, MAX is trying to swim in the deep end of the intelligence pool again.

Yeah, you're gonna get a PM over this one.......

:gulp:

just sayin'

[MAX]

LOL!

It's not their "right" to do that, but it doesn't get in the way or prevent them from doing it anyways.

....I actually feel sorry for the people who are naive enough to believe that the 4th Ammendment still exists.

Well said and what I meant to type. Unfortunately, I was fuming at the moment and needed to take five. :(

[MAX]

Yeah, you're gonna get a PM over this one.......

:gulp:

just sayin'

Why can't you two just discuss it in public? :confused:

[Guitar Shark]

Yeah, you're gonna get a PM over this one.......

:gulp:

just sayin'

Cool, it's been a while since I heard from DG

[MAX]

You see most people would sit down and think 'I wonder why everyone keeps thinking that about me. How can I stop that happening?'

Uh ok Sesh, outside of your post, no one's ever referred to me as a fucking Nazi. :rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Cool, it's been a while since I heard from DG

:lmao:

counselor is on a roll today......

[MAX]

Cool, it's been a while since I heard from DG

What in the fuck is that supposed to even mean?

[Seshmeister]

Uh ok Sesh, outside of your post, no one's ever referred to me as a fucking Nazi. :rolleyes:

So why are you 'so fucking sick of people comparing my beliefs to that of the fucking Nazis!' when this is the first time?

Also I never referred to you as a 'fucking Nazi' I just implied that you liked the idea of a man in uniform asking you 'vere are your papers?'.

That could just be a fetish or perversion it doesn't mean that you are a total facist.

Neccesarily.

[Blackflag]

LMMFAO

As I was typing it, I was thinking make sure to say the SECOND

As for your second part, i never said I was picking and choosing, I said they were racist and outdated.


Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 for instance.

:gulp:

That part doesn't have any effect anymore, because of amendments. There is nothing in the Bill of Rights that is racist or outdated, and I don't think fundamental rights can ever be outdated, regardless how society changes.

[Blackflag]

Dude, Max could crush you all with his brain power, all Scanners-style.

[MAX]

So why are you 'so fucking sick of people comparing my beliefs to that of the fucking Nazis!' when this is the first time?

Also I never referred to you as a 'fucking Nazi' I just implied that you liked the idea of a man in uniform asking you 'vere are your papers?'.

That could just be a fetish or perversion it doesn't mean that you are a total facist.

Neccesarily.


Ok, I'll rephrase...

Because of the fact that many of my beliefs tend to be a bit more on the conservative or "right" side, many people in this country's media refer to it as Nazi-type thinking.

Again, I did not wisely type what I was thinking.

Apologies to you and I'll let the others have a field day with my retraction. :)

[Seshmeister]

Dude, Max could crush you all with his brain power, all Scanners-style.

Some people say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but I don't. :)

[MAX]

Dude, Max could crush you all with his brain power, all Scanners-style.

Much like my alleged "alias" that Sharky the Genius outed (:lmao:) I've also burned far too many brain cells over the course of my lifetime. Thus, my brain doesn't have the power nor the strength and/or capacity to accomplish such a feat.

My deepest apologies to thome. :(

[Blackflag]

Yep.

When laws contain the terms "resonable" and practicable" it just leaves the door wide open for interpretation and ABUSE

:gulp:

It'll be interesting to read what Sotomayor thinks of this when in eventually makes it to the USSC

Listen cocksucker, simple question, that you keep avoiding: A cop stops a guy for speeding and asks for his ID. Driver has no ID. Should the cop be able to ask him if he's here legally, then verify that through records? And if he's here illegally, should be detained, then deported?

And the standard here is reasonable suspicion, not probable cause.

[LoungeMachine]

What in the fuck is that supposed to even mean?

That if she feels someone is being mean to you, she'll step in front of you.

:gulp:

That's all.

[Guitar Shark]

Man, MAX is full of apologies today for being generally stupid.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Man, MAX is full of apologies today for being generally stupid.

no he isn't. yes he is. no he isn't. yes he is. no he isn't. yes he is. no he isn't. yes he is. no he isn't. yes he is. no he isn't. yes he is. no he isn't. yes he is.



channeling my inner "thome" :biggrin:

[LoungeMachine]

Listen cocksucker, simple question, that you keep avoiding: A cop stops a guy for speeding and asks for his ID. Driver has no ID. Should the cop be able to ask him if he's here legally, then verify that through records? And if he's here illegally, should be detained, then deported?

And the standard here is reasonable suspicion, not probable cause.

I haven't avoided any questions, mancrush.

And my PROBABLE CAUSE argument was with MAXI over his take that any cop can pull anyone over at anytime for any reason.

So either pay attention, or STFU.

I'm hoping for the latter.

:gulp:

[Guitar Shark]

A cop stops a guy for speeding and asks for his ID. Driver has no ID. Should the cop be able to ask him if he's here legally, then verify that through records? And if he's here illegally, should be detained, then deported?

And the standard here is reasonable suspicion, not probable cause.

Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

[MAX]

That if she feels someone is being mean to you, she'll step in front of you.

:gulp:

That's all.

Of course she would cos DG's also my alias duh. I thought that was also common knowledge around here?

[Blackflag]

I haven't avoided any questions, mancrush.

And my PROBABLE CAUSE argument was with MAXI over his take that any cop can pull anyone over at anytime for any reason.

So either pay attention, or STFU.

I'm hoping for the latter.

:gulp:

No answer to the question?

[MAX]

Man, MAX is full of apologies today for being generally stupid.

Here's one for which I will not be apologizing. Go fuck yourself. :)

[LoungeMachine]

, simple question,

: A cop stops a guy for speeding and asks for his ID. Driver has no ID. Should the cop be able to ask him if he's here legally, then verify that through records? And if he's here illegally, should be detained, then deported?



.

Yes, yes, yes, and to the last part.....yes.

But that's not myconcern with this law.

MY concern, is a brown skin person is walking down the street, [not operating a motor vehicle] and is stopped and asked to produce documentation of citizenship while having done NOTHING wrong whatsoever, or anything to warrant a stop.

I'm not protecting "illegals" with this worry, I'm protecting the US Citizen from Neo-Gestapo tactics that don't seem to be toofar down the pike.

:gulp:

That's my opinion and fear of where we're headed.

[Blackflag]

Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

I don't have a problem with that, either. I thought that was already the case, but I must be wrong.

So if any state wants to pass a law saying, 'during a lawful stop or arrest...,' I'd have no problem with that. It sounds like what's throwing everybody off here is the possibility of stopping people for no reason just to check if they're legal. Take that possibility out, and the illegals' argument would be shit.

[Blackflag]

MY concern, is a brown skin person is walking down the street, [not operating a motor vehicle] and is stopped and asked to produce documentation of citizenship while having done NOTHING wrong whatsoever, or anything to warrant a stop.


The same thing can happen / does happen to white people. So that's a Fourth Amendment issue, not a racial issue.

So we're in agreement then - excuse me while I go drink some drano.

[MAX]

And my PROBABLE CAUSE argument was with MAXI over his take that any cop can pull anyone over at anytime for any reason.




As I said, I meant that cops regardlessly DO pull people over whenever they want.

[LoungeMachine]

- excuse me while I go drink some drano.

Mix it with some Triple Sec, muddle a couple of limes, and strain over ice.

:gulp:

Sweet dreams, mancrush.

[LoungeMachine]

The same thing can happen / does happen to white people. So that's a Fourth Amendment issue, not a racial issue.

.

AZ is making it a racial issue.

Again, MY concern isn't even this poorly written law, per se.....

It's the next one, and the next one after that that it is paving the way for.

:gulp:

For ONCE I wish this country would try and tackle a problem without resorting to FEAR tactics.

[Blackflag]

I actually have testicles, so I can't have mixed drinks. You can have my umbrella though, fag.

[LoungeMachine]

:lmao:

Your insecurities are showing again, mancrush.

:gulp:

[PETE'S BROTHER]

AZ is making it a racial issue.


.

:umm:how?

[LoungeMachine]

:umm:how?

Really?

Are they targetting SnowBirds from Canada with this law?

[Guitar Shark]

Here's one for which I will not be apologizing. Go fuck yourself. :)

LOL. Give it time and you'll apologize for that too.

[LoungeMachine]

I actually have testicles, so I can't have mixed drinks. You can have my umbrella though, fag.

Okay, tough guy.

Straight shot it like a man.......in a dirty glass, no less.

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

AZ is making it a racial issue.

Again, MY concern isn't even this poorly written law, per se.....

It's the next one, and the next one after that that it is paving the way for.

:gulp:

For ONCE I wish this country would try and tackle a problem without resorting to FEAR tactics.

Maybe there's a racial issue, but it's a weak one. The stronger argument is that there's no way to have 'reasonable suspicion' that somebody is an illegal. So any stop would violate the Fourth Amendment. I could just as easily be stopped and asked for my proof of citizenship also, with no reasonable suspicion. So it's all fucking bullshit. And that's a better argument than a 14th amendment equal protection argument that mexicans may end up being stopped more than other people.

If that's how it reads. I haven't seen the text of this. So if the law actually says, 'during a lawful stop,' you're all fucking stupid and should go off yourselves.

[LoungeMachine]

As I said, I meant that cops regardlessly DO pull people over whenever they want.

Oh, I apologize then..... :lmao:

Hey. WTF?!?!

:gulp:

Must be contagious.

[LoungeMachine]

Maybe there's a racial issue, but it's a weak one. .

No argument.


homo.

:gulp:

[MAX]

AZ is making it a racial issue.

It seems to me that the people who are protesting it are making it into a racial issue. I mean, has anyone actually been deported just cos they're infact "brown" as of yet? fuck, it is Arizona after all... I'm sure there are lots of folks who just simply have tans as well, no? :confused:

[MAX]

Oh, I apologize then..... :lmao:

Hey. WTF?!?!

:gulp:

Must be contagious.

Speaking of apologies, you actually don't owe me one regarding this cos you quoted what I did type. :)

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Really?

Are they targetting SnowBirds from Canada with this law?

illegal ones? certainly.

[MAX]

illegal ones? certainly.

Tans? :confused:

[Blackflag]

Must be contagious.

I'm sorry too, then.

Sorry I have to share a forum with such fucking flamers.

[hambon4lif]

As I said, I meant that cops regardlessly DO pull people over whenever they want.Exactly! And they frequently do. Without reason, without suspicion, without 'probable cause'....you could simply "fit the description of someone they're looking for" and that gives them enough reason to do whatever they fucking want.

Usually by the time some dipshit starts going off about some tired-ass 4th Amendment jazz, they're doing so from inside of a cell.

[Mushroom]

AZ is making it a racial issue.

Again, MY concern isn't even this poorly written law, per se.....

It's the next one, and the next one after that that it is paving the way for.

:gulp:

For ONCE I wish this country would try and tackle a problem without resorting to FEAR tactics.

Tackling a problem starts with actually doing something about it --- and it appears AZ took the bull by the horns to tackle the problem. Where are the fear tactics?

[Seshmeister]

So we're in agreement then - excuse me while I go drink some Drano.

Who's he, your Mexican gardener?

[Mushroom]

Really?

Are they targetting SnowBirds from Canada with this law?

They are targetting "illegals" no matter the origin. I suppose Washington, Idaho, Montana, and North Dakota will adopt a similar law once illegals start inundating those states (that's sarcasm).

[MAX]

Exactly! And they frequently do. Without reason, without suspicion, without 'probable cause'....you could simply "fit the description of someone they're looking for" and that gives them enough reason to do whatever they fucking want.

Usually by the time some dipshit starts going off about some tired-ass 4th Amendment jazz, they're doing so from inside of a cell.

Exactly, my buddy who's now SWAT told me back when he was doing traffic, "probable cause" could simply be a Grateful Dead sticker on a Subaru Outback. Now and by that token, are those dope smokin' reefer addicts going to cry cos they were unjustifiably profiled due to their own extremely poor hygiene?

Again, if Pete's Brother spends too much time in the sun, his skin turns brown and he's pulled over, I don't think racial profiling's going to even enter his mind.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Again, if Pete's Brother spends too much time in the sun, his skin turns brown and he's pulled over, I don't think racial profiling's going to even enter his mind.

i if spend too much time in the sun, i turn red. then i feel much more comfortable on the reservation.:hee:

[hambon4lif]

Tackling a problem starts with actually doing something about it --- and it appears AZ took the bull by the horns to tackle the problem.Before this happened, people were endlessly complaining about the immigration problem, and what we were going to do about it. Then when someone steps up to resolve the problem, more complaining ensues...

It's a no-win situation. People are going to bitch, gripe, moan, and complain no matter what the fuck you do!

People are stupid!

[Blackflag]

Exactly, my buddy who's now SWAT told me back when he was doing traffic, "probable cause" could simply be a Grateful Dead sticker on a Subaru Outback. Now and by that token, are those dope smokin' reefer addicts going to cry cos they were unjustifiably profiled due to their own extremely poor hygiene?

Again, if Pete's Brother spends too much time in the sun, his skin turns brown and he's pulled over, I don't think racial profiling's going to even enter his mind.

If your friend is just a jerk-off who likes to stop people because it's more fun than eating a donut, I guess that's fun. But in terms of doing an actual job, there's no way somebody's going to be prosecuted for dope possession when the reasonable suspicion was a bumper sticker.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Exactly, my buddy who's now SWAT told me back when he was doing traffic, "probable cause" could simply be a Grateful Dead sticker on a Subaru Outback. Now and by that token, are those dope smokin' reefer addicts going to cry cos they were unjustifiably profiled due to their own extremely poor hygiene?



and if i get pulled over on my scoot, for bein' a dirty biker scumbag, and have my one hiiter box with me, i'm breakin' the law and must deal with that risk.

[chefcraig]

Really?

Are they targetting SnowBirds from Canada with this law?

We are talking Arizona, not Florida.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

they've all flown the coop now anyway.

[MAX]

If your friend is just a jerk-off who likes to stop people because it's more fun than eating a donut, I guess that's fun. But in terms of doing an actual job, there's no way somebody's going to be prosecuted for dope possession when the reasonable suspicion was a bumper sticker.

He's no "jerk off" he didn't state that's what HE DID. He just stated that a Grateful Dead sticker was enough probable cause to infact pull someone over if they wanted to do so.

I'll up the ante even more. My other alias (not the thome one) DG's son was once pulled over in Massa-fucking-chusetts cos he was driving a stereotypical low rider, bright color with a booming subwoofer. Now, the police pulled him over stating it was cos he was violating a noise ordinance. However, they in fact searched the car for drugs found ZERO and didn't give a citation for violating any noise ordinance. That's profiling and the kid is white.

[MAX]

they've all flown the coop now anyway.

How did pretty pink flamingos get into this discussion?

[chefcraig]

they've all flown the coop now anyway.

Then how come all these cars cutting me off have Quebec license plates? You know, the ones asking for free souvenirs? http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-confused-smileys-718.gif (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/Free-Innocent-Smileys/)

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9863/aquabec.jpg (http://img39.imageshack.us/i/aquabec.jpg/)

[sadaist]

Do you have the text of it?


http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

[Blackflag]

He's no "jerk off" he didn't state that's what HE DID. He just stated that a Grateful Dead sticker was enough probable cause to infact pull someone over if they wanted to do so.

They can pull somebody over because they don't like the color of your car, I guess. Cops are cocksuckers like that. But that doesn't mean it's Constitutional, it doesn't mean it's right, and it doesn't mean anything they find in your car would be admissible in court.



I'll up the ante even more. My other alias (not the thome one) DG's son was once pulled over in Massa-fucking-chusetts cos he was driving a stereotypical low rider, bright color with a booming subwoofer. Now, the police pulled him over stating it was cos he was violating a noise ordinance. However, they in fact searched the car for drugs found ZERO and didn't give a citation for violating any noise ordinance. That's profiling and the kid is white.

See above re: cocksuckers. Is your argument that the Arizona law sucks, because it gives them more authority to be cocksuckers?

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Then how come all these cars cutting me off have Quebec license plates? You know, the ones asking for free souvenirs? http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-confused-smileys-718.gif (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/Free-Innocent-Smileys/)

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9863/aquabec.jpg (http://img39.imageshack.us/i/aquabec.jpg/)

alright, they've flown the az coop.

[MAX]

They can pull somebody over because they don't like the color of your car, I guess. Cops are cocksuckers like that. But that doesn't mean it's Constitutional, it doesn't mean it's right, and it doesn't mean anything they find in your car would be admissible in court.



See above re: cocksuckers. Is your argument that the Arizona law sucks, because it gives them more authority to be cocksuckers?


I have no argument with the AZ law whatsoever. I'm fucking for it and all the way. Odds are my state will soon be adopting something similar shortly. We have an extremely large Hispanic population as well and I'm also pretty sure that a few of them have slipped through the cracks and are not legal. I mean, we're their neighbors to the north. By that, I'm referring to Utah/Arizona. lol

I was simply stating that certain cops are going to pull whomever over for whatever reason and whenever they want anyway. They always have and they'll also shove a billy club up their ass. Is that right? No. Regardless whether the said profiled is fucking "brown" or not. Again, this shit is always out there and (unfortunately) will always be that way. Yes, it sucks. Nonetheless, I'm still for illegal's to be shown the fucking door when they're subsequently breaking the laws of Arizona and the U.S. of A.

[Blackflag]

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Well, that's interesting. The moronic hayseeds actually have it both ways.

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.


E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON
38 IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED
39 ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.



Lounge will like this part, although it's not harsh enough...

Sec. 6. Section 23-212, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended to read:
7 23-212. Knowingly employing unauthorized aliens; prohibition;

[Blackflag]

I have no argument with the AZ law whatsoever. I'm fucking for it and all the way. Odds are my state will soon be adopting something similar shortly. We have an extremely large Hispanic population as well. I mean, we're their neighbors to the north.

You can't stop somebody with no reasonable suspicion. Boom.



I was simply stating that certain cops are going to pull whomever over for whatever reason and whenever they want anyway. They always have and they'll also shove a billy club up their ass. Is that right? No. Regardless whether the said profiled is fucking "brown" or not. Again, this shit is always out there and (unfortunately) will always be that way. Yes, it sucks. Nonetheless, I'm still for illegal's to be shown the fucking door when they're subsequently breaking the laws of Arizona and the U.S. of A.

It is out there, and it's a violation. You can sue them, or at least have what they find is inadmissible in court. Do you really want a new law that approves the stupid illegal shit they already do?

Why not make a new law that they can stick mops up the asses of illegal aliens? They do that already, right? Why not. Fuck.

[chefcraig]

I'll up the ante even more. My other alias (not the thome one) DG's son was once pulled over in Massa-fucking-chusetts cos he was driving a stereotypical low rider, bright color with a booming subwoofer. Now, the police pulled him over stating it was cos he was violating a noise ordinance. However, they in fact searched the car for drugs found ZERO and didn't give a citation for violating any noise ordinance. That's profiling and the kid is white.

Not only do I support the police for pulling over these idiots with their trunk rattling stereos cruising around my neighborhood, I wish they'd unload several rounds into the stereo itself in addition to handing out a ticket. Imagine you are the guy strapped to a stretcher in an ambulance on the way to the hospital, your progress hampered by some asshole that won't get out of the way because his music is playing so loud that he can't hear the siren. Fuck profiling, this is common sense.

[MAX]

Why not make a new law that they can stick mops up the asses of illegal aliens? They do that already, right? Why not. Fuck.

Cos I'm not a big proponent of shoving anything up anyone's reluctant asshole that's less loving than a dildo.

[Mushroom]

I'll up the ante even more. My other alias (not the thome one) DG's son was once pulled over in Massa-fucking-chusetts cos he was driving a stereotypical low rider, bright color with a booming subwoofer. Now, the police pulled him over stating it was cos he was violating a noise ordinance. However, they in fact searched the car for drugs found ZERO and didn't give a citation for violating any noise ordinance. That's profiling and the kid is white.

The officer, without probable cause, probably asked DG's son if he could search the vehicle. And that's ok because the officer asked. DG's son likely said "yes" without knowing he could have in fact said "no," requiring the police to get a search warrant. In general, the police do not want to waste their time if their is no probable cause because they know the case does not hold up in court.

[MAX]

Not only do I support the police for pulling over these idiots with their trunk rattling stereos cruising around my neighborhood, I wish they'd unload several rounds into the stereo itself in addition to handing out a ticket. Imagine you are the guy strapped to a stretcher in an ambulance on the way to the hospital, your progress hampered by some asshole that won't get out of the way because his music is playing so loud that he can't hear the siren. Fuck profiling, this is common sense.

Ahhhhhhhhh... BUT and by that same token, how can these people (yes, I'm defending DG's son cos he was a kid at the time and he's a damn good man) be pulled over (like your ambulence scenerio) if they cannot in fact hear said sirens in the first place? :confused:

I don't like the loud, Eath-rattling thumpers either btw, just throwin' that out there. Does that mean deaf people shouldn't drive either cos they cannot hear an ambulence's siren? Food for thought?

[chefcraig]

Ahhhhhhhhh... BUT and by that same token, how can these people (yes, I'm defending DG's son cos he was a kid at the time and he's a damn good man) be pulled over (like your ambulence scenerio) if they cannot in fact hear said sirens in the first place? :confused:

I don't like the loud, Eath-rattling thumpers either btw, just throwin' that out there. Does that mean deaf people shouldn't drive either cos they cannot hear an ambulence's siren? Food for thought?

What does one have to do with the other? We are talking about people being responsible for their actions with regard to others, regardless of whether that person is a "damn good man". There is a federal ban prohibiting interstate truck drivers that are deaf, yet hearing impaired or deaf drivers are completely legal, and these folks use special mirrors and sound detection devices that flash a blinking light on the dashboard. As a result, these people have been statistically proven to be safer, more aware drivers than those with supposed "normal" hearing.

[FORD]

We are talking Arizona, not Florida.

Yep. Arizona's snowbirds come from Washington state. And they all "fly" back by April, because they don't wanna be anywhere near the desert when it hits 100 degrees.

[Blackflag]

Well, that was certainly a contribution to the thread.

[LoungeMachine]

Yep. Arizona's snowbirds come from Washington state. And they all "fly" back by April, because they don't wanna be anywhere near the desert when it hits 100 degrees.

When I had a home in Scottsdale, it was Michigan and Canadian license plates on the RV's, primarily.

And no, most AZ residents aren't tan.

You go from your air conditioned home to your air conditioned car to your air conditioned office in the summer.

Only the latino landscapers brave the summers

:gulp:

[PETE'S BROTHER]

east mesa, probably every canadian province, and 65% of montana and wyoming's population.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

and iowegians and cheeseheads

[FORD]

Aren't most of Mesa's residents from Utah?

(certainly spiritually, if not physically. Though I must grudgingly admit it's one of the cooler looking temples)

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mesa/images/mesa_lds_mormon_temple.jpg

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mesa/

[PETE'S BROTHER]

and one block away, in all directions, it's "little mexico".

[Nickdfresh]

How about providing a path to legalization? Social Security benefits and Medicare are depleting. If they became legal citizens or permanent residents, they could pay FICA, income taxes, etc.

Most already pay income taxes.

[Nickdfresh]

Some do pay into the system because they work with fake Social Security numbers...

Gee. I wonder why that is?

[Nickdfresh]

the AZ law gives the state the power to address their immigration issue because the Federal Govt is not effective enough. it gives the state police the power to 1)...ask for ID under reasonable suspicion (which is nothing new, we already gave that power to the police), and then 2) detain that person if they cannot prove legal status.

Enjoy your taxpayer nightmare, and the huge draw on resources from local law enforcement preventing them from adequately going after actual criminals...

[Nickdfresh]

How is asking for identification illegal search and seizure ??

Pulling over people because they might have the wrong skin color is...

[Blackflag]

Most already pay income taxes.

I'm not sure how you'd come up with a statistic for that since, by definition, those that aren't paying aren't on record. So I'd like to see your cite for >50%.

[Nickdfresh]

It is a false assumption to think that the police can legally stop people just because they might "look" like an illegal immigrant. I don't support that because it's gestapo-style governance.

Your question: under what circumstances would someone be "reasonably suspicious" of being an illegal immigrant? The General Answer: a person not being able to produce authentic identification.

So, why do we need a specific bill on all this is the laws are already there?

Where is it "legal" for people to not have identification, insurance, or a driver's license to drive or operate a vehicle after a car accident?

[Nickdfresh]

I don't understand your circular question. Have you ever been asked to produce identification? Somebody would be requested to show ID to an officer in the event of one of the following:
- Pulled over for speeding
- Information gathering for traffic accident investigation
- A skirmish between drunk bar patrons
- Border Patrol check-point

We can hypothesize more incidences. But the point is that this law gives the State of AZ the authority to detain somebody because they are here illegally; the law does not give the State of AZ the authority to ask for ID just because the officer has a grudge against mexicans.

No. Actually the law gives them special powers, even a mandate, to determine if someone is legal or not.

[Nickdfresh]

I'm not sure how you'd come up with a statistic for that since, by definition, those that aren't paying aren't on record. So I'd like to see your cite for >50%.

Well, idiot, you see the IRS has a specific program that gives an alternative to using an SSN. I'm pretty sure you could have learned how to Google this yourself, though?


...
The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare

The agency estimates that for 2005, the last year for which figures are available, about $9 billion in taxes was paid on about $75 billion in wages from people who filed W2 forms with incorrect or mismatched data, which would include illegal immigrants who drew paychecks under fake names and Social Security numbers.

Spokesman Mark Hinkle says Social Security does not know how much of the $9 billion can be attributed to illegal immigrants. The number is certainly not 100 percent, but a significant portion probably comes from taxes paid by illegal immigrants.

Nine billion dollars sounds like a lot of money, and it is, but it is only about 1.5 percent of the total $593 billion paid into Social Security in 2005.

The impact on Social Security is significant, though, because most of that money is never claimed by the people who pay it but instead helps cover retirement checks to legal workers.

Federal law prohibits paying Social Security to illegal immigrants, but the administration factors in both legal and illegal immigration when projecting the trust fund's long-term solvency.

This is especially important as the 78 million-member baby boom generation begins to leave the work force and draw Social Security checks.

"Overall, any type of immigration is a net positive to Social Security. The more people working and paying into the system, the better," Hinkle said. "It does help the system remain solvent."
...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24054024/

[Blackflag]

So you don't know that >50% of illegals pay taxes, do you?

To quote M.J., "it's B.S....he made it up..."

[Nickdfresh]

Who gives a flying fuck as to why they're pulled over and/or the aftermath? If they're illegally in this country, they've already broken the law and isn't that what the police are paid to do? Enforce the fucking law? :confused:

It's kind of like the cops pulling over a car with a WHITEY driving and the car's full of suspicious loot. The cop asks for ID, is that profiling? Holy shit!!! The motherfucker just robbed a house and broke the law!!!

Ehhhhh... Let him go cos he was profiled by those rotten police doing their job!!! What about whitey's rights? :rolleyes:

Brilliant Maxipad. Let's have police chasing around everyone who might be illegal. See how that one works out for ya.'

Next, let's put police on every few miles of highway to insure all of you lawbreakers don't speed! We'll only need a few hundred thousand more cops...

[Mushroom]

Enjoy your taxpayer nightmare, and the huge draw on resources from local law enforcement preventing them from adequately going after actual criminals...

who knows how that really would shake out. that's where my vote counts! I can say no to those tax increases. besides, with depleted re$ource$ and budget cuts, law enforcement will not have the time to deal with poor illegal Abuela Maria, but you can bet they will focus on people that fit the profile of an illegal thug, Coyote or el sobrinho dulce de Pablo Escobar.

[Nickdfresh]

Yeah, it's around 75%, retard. You have mad reading skillz by the way.

[Blackflag]

Yeah, it's around 75%, retard. You have mad reading skillz by the way.

Why not just say 100%, as long as you're making it up? 100% sounds much cooler.




Did you just say "skillz?"

[Nickdfresh]

...you can bet they will focus on people that fit the profile of an illegal thug, Coyote or el sobrinho dulce de Pablo Escobar.


I would hope so. But why do we need attention whore, political-attention-seeking hacks to grandstand special bills for that? Incidentally, many in Mexico will state that one of the things creating those thugs is the very liberal U.S. gun laws arming them to the teeth and enabling gangsters to openly challenge the Mexican security forces. That's just sort of beginning to come home to roost...

But that's another matter...

[Mushroom]

No. Actually the law gives them special powers, even a mandate, to determine if someone is legal or not.

Is that law already on the books in AZ? Meanwhile you can be detained while they determine your legal status

[Nickdfresh]

Incidentally, speaking of illegal immigrant thugs and gangsters--some of their biggest victims are undocumented workers. And you know what? This bill will only make things worse, because honest, hardworking illegally hired workers will now only fear police more and will no longer cooperate with them in finding the true career criminals and narco-terrorist drug dealers...

Enjoy the violence...

[Blackflag]

Incidentally, speaking of illegal immigrant thugs and gangsters--some of their biggest victims are undocumented workers. And you know what? This bill will only make things worse, because honest, hardworking illegally hired workers will now only fear police more and will no longer cooperate with them in finding the true career criminals and narco-terrorist drug dealers...

Then it sounds like they'd be much happier back home.

[Nickdfresh]

Why not just say 100%, as long as you're making it up? 100% sounds much cooler.




Did you just say "skillz?"

I'm not making anything up. But enjoy looking like a bitchy-jackass. At least I can support what I say, tool.

[Mushroom]

So let's go over this again: why does AZ want this law?

[Blackflag]

I'm not making anything up. But enjoy looking like a bitchy-jackass. At least I can support what I say, tool.

Maybe you should reread your awesome MSN article again. It doesn't say anything about what percentage pay taxes. It doesn't say 50%. It doesn't say 75%. It doesn't say 100%.

What is does say is, "Spokesman Mark Hinkle says Social Security does not know how much of the $9 billion can be attributed to illegal immigrants."

You're like an angry retard.

[Nickdfresh]

Exactly, my buddy who's now SWAT told me back when he was doing traffic, "probable cause" could simply be a Grateful Dead sticker on a Subaru Outback. Now and by that token, are those dope smokin' reefer addicts going to cry cos they were unjustifiably profiled due to their own extremely poor hygiene?

Again, if Pete's Brother spends too much time in the sun, his skin turns brown and he's pulled over, I don't think racial profiling's going to even enter his mind.

That's because he was a dickhead that profiled only people that were dumber than he was and couldn't fight back.

I once had a cop ask me "how many years of school" I had after he stopped me for some bullshit pretense. It was a nice way of trying to find out if I was a lawyer or not, I smiled at him and said my level of education is irrelevant. Right before he let me go with a "stern warning."

Just because he did it doesn't make it legal or right. I mean, what a he-man super-American he was for rousting pot smokers. Didn't he have anything better to do like issue J-walking citations or comparing notes on donuts?

http://www.thereheis.com/nucleus3.22/media/gallery/20070925-reno-911%20cops.jpg

[Nickdfresh]

Maybe you should reread your awesome MSN article again. It doesn't say anything about what percentage pay taxes. It doesn't say 50%. It doesn't say 75%. It doesn't say 100%.

What is does say is, "Spokesman Mark Hinkle says Social Security does not know how much of the $9 billion can be attributed to illegal immigrants."

You're like an angry retard.

I'm angry because you're a retard. It says "three-quarters" pay taxes into social security. Would you like me to draw you a nice fucking pie graph?

[FORD]

So let's go over this again: why does AZ want this law?

Because (tragically) AZ is currently ran by racist extremist assholes like Jan Brewer, Joe Arpaio, Russel Pearce, and JD Hayworth. Meghan McCain (daughter of Grandpa Simpson) is so scared of these wackjobs that she moved to New York. And even her dad isn't extreme enough for these fools anymore.

I consider Arizona my second home, but I won't be going back for a while, until this neo-confederate bullshit is over. :(

[MAX]

because honest, hardworking illegally hired workers

"Honest" and "Illegally hired." Hmmmmmm... Isn't that a cuntradiciton of sorts? :confused:

[FORD]

This just in from CNN radio news - The Pima county sheriff says he will refuse to enforce this new racist ass law which he believes (and rightfully so) is unconstitutional.

Good to see that Tucson is still a little more sane than Phoenix. But I'm still not in a hurry to get to the desert.

[Nickdfresh]

"Honest" and "Illegally hired." Hmmmmmm... Isn't that a cuntradiciton of sorts? :confused:

Because most ARE honest and hardworking. If you really wanted to end this supposed problem (causing the American economy to fuck-itself shortly thereafter), you'd jail the managers, foremen, CEOs, human resource officers etc. that abide all of this illegal hiring. The immigrants are just responding to a demand created by people buying off the very same Nativist-douchebag politicians crowing about the wave of evil-brown people...

[MAX]

That's because he was a dickhead that profiled only people that were dumber than he was and couldn't fight back.

I once had a cop ask me "how many years of school" I had after he stopped me for some bullshit pretense. It was a nice way of trying to find out if I was a lawyer or not, I smiled at him and said my level of education is irrelevant. Right before he let me go with a "stern warning."

Just because he did it doesn't make it legal or right. I mean, what a he-man super-American he was for rousting pot smokers. Didn't he have anything better to do like issue J-walking citations or comparing notes on donuts?

K, Nikk, now you've just proven that you're not even reading the entire thread. Just the bits and pieces that will give you the opportunity to be the bitter fela you are and shoot off that everyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot, dumbass or a retarded asshole.

Go pick your nose and eat that.:)

[Nickdfresh]

K, Nikk, now you've just proven that you're not even reading the entire thread. Just the bits and pieces that will give you the opportunity to be the bitter fela you are and shoot off that everyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot, dumbass or a retarded asshole.

Go pick your nose and eat that.:)

I wasn't responding to the entire thread, "idiot." I was responding to the stupid fucking cop asshole gloating about his own ineffectiveness...

Isn't it time for you to give boobsy a foot-massage?

[MAX]

Because most ARE honest and hardworking. If you really wanted to end this supposed problem (causing the American economy to fuck-itself shortly thereafter), you'd jail the managers, foremen, CEOs, human resource officers etc. that abide all of this illegal hiring. The immigrants are just responding to a demand created by people buying off the very same Nativist-douchebag politicians crowing about the wave of evil-brown people...

Uh oh, more talk about Pete's Brother's shitty Arizona induced tan again.

[Nickdfresh]

Uh oh, more talk about Pete's Brother's shitty Arizona induced tan again.

I don't recall actually responding to Pete's Bro...

[MAX]

I wasn't responding to the entire thread, "idiot." I was responding to the stupid fucking cop asshole gloating about his own ineffectiveness...

Isn't it time for you to give boobsy a foot-massage?

Awwwwwww... You're so sweet tonight.

"Idiot?" Thanks puddin'. :D

Ok Nikk. :rolleyes: What "stupid cop" was "gloating" about actually doing it? :confused: He simply stated what was actually common practice and what defined PROBABLE CAUSE!!!

Yet again, you've failed to prove any points. Kinda like with the school lunch program. Lost me there as well. Seriously, without pasting news articles or calling people names, you tend to be the epitome of the nikkname Elvis has given you.

*big round of applause!!!*

[Nickdfresh]

Awwwwwww... You're so sweet tonight.

"Idiot?" Thanks puddin'. :D

Ok Nikk. :rolleyes: What "stupid cop" was "gloating" about actually doing it? :confused: He simply stated what was actually common practice and what defined PROBABLE CAUSE!!!

Right, super-genius. And I posted my opinion on why I think he's a dick for that. It's called having principles...

But whatever, if you really believe bumper-stickers should in anyway be some sort of probable cause, good luck!


Yet again, you've failed to prove any points.

Well, we have something in common. Maybe if I knew what yours were...


Kinda like with the school lunch program. Lost me there as well. Seriously, without pasting news articles or calling people names, you tend to be the epitome of the nikkname Elvis has given you.

You mean the one where I actually posted the post-WWII legislation that effectively created the school lunch program? You really got me there, Maxi!! I mean, you're quite a master debater. I just lost interest and stopped posting to the thick...

But congratulations on your victory...


*big round of applause!!!*

You're welcome!

[hideyoursheep]

Understandable to be pissed....but wouldn't they be equally pissed knowing how many illegals of their same ethnic background are suckling at the teat of the American dream without having to follow the same 'correct' path that their ancestors did?

Dead on as usual, 'dutch. I've heard the term "beaner" used by Mexican-Americans in reference to the illegals. It's not a total love affair between the two, as some would believe.

[hideyoursheep]

Illegal immigrants working in this country don't pay taxes?

Who wants to argue that point? Anyone?

Bring it, fucksticks!:tongue0011:

[sadaist]

I stopped at 7-11 today. They had a large sign that read "If you appear under age 35, you MUST provide proper identification". Appear? Isn't that profiling? If I look a certain way they need to check my ID? I know it's to prevent me from breaking a law by buying tobacco or alcohol, but isn't checking ID's of other people preventing them from staying here illegally?

What exactly is the difference in checking ID's if you appear under 35, or checking ID's of someone you are already questioning due to another infraction?

Buy a beer & look under age...ID checked.

Commit a crime & appear illegal....ID checked.

When I was between 16-24 or so, my friends & I would have night time bonfires at the beach. Many, many times police arrived for no reason other than to check our ID's. I guess they were looking to enforce the age 21 drinking law or the age 16 10 pm curfew. Damn profilers. We didn't complain and always complied with the officers requests. But then, we weren't doing anything illegal, so why would we complain.

[sadaist]

Illegal immigrants working in this country don't pay taxes?

Who wants to argue that point? Anyone?

Bring it, fucksticks!:tongue0011:

Income taxes? Probably not since many work for under the table pay. And since they are here illegally and do not have a social security number, I highly doubt they are filing any type of tax return & attaching a check for Uncle Sam.

What percentage of illegal immigrants are criminals, in gangs, incarcerated, receiving government assistance, obtaining free medical treatments, and much more?

And yes, the illegals who work pay taxes. Even if they receive their paychecks "under the table", they still pay gas tax, sales tax, utilities tax. But are those taxes sufficient enough to cover the cost everything above plus border security, additional police officers, crowded courts, and overcrowded jails and prisons?

[sadaist]

Will there be a Cinco de Mayo celebration this year in <strike>Aryanzonia</strike> Arizona?


Are there 4th of July celebrations in Mexico or Central America?

[hideyoursheep]

Income taxes? Probably not since many work for under the table pay. And since they are here illegally and do not have a social security number, I highly doubt they are filing any type of tax return & attaching a check for Uncle Sam.

What percentage of illegal immigrants are criminals, in gangs, incarcerated, receiving government assistance, obtaining free medical treatments, and much more?

And yes, the illegals who work pay taxes. Even if they receive their paychecks "under the table", they still pay gas tax, sales tax, utilities tax. But are those taxes sufficient enough to cover the cost everything above plus border security, additional police officers, crowded courts, and overcrowded jails and prisons?

Think harder, sadaist....Who PAYS the illegals? Where does the money come from?
-
Fencing stolen property in this country is a crime. But when labor is being "fenced", it's called "subcontracting"

[hideyoursheep]

Fucking cursor keeps jumping..


Anyway, You have one guy who is in charge of receiving ALL the money for a job that many illegals do. He's the one legit guy in the operation. He has a legit SSN, files taxes based on his income, and his income is based on how much ALL of these illegals have worked for him. He gets the check, cashes it, and deals it out to the illegals based on what they've done that week. Usually a significant amount LESS than what you or I would be paid. Knowing that he is responsible for paying the income tax at years end, he pinches a pretty high percentage off of the illegals pay before they get it, to cover his ass come Apr. 15th. And these scumbags are usually the ones to scream the loudest come tax time. They manage a crew of illegals while they sit on their asses, pay them shit, give them no time off, then pinch a higher witholding percentage off the top before they even get paid.
So if you think that illegals aren't paying taxes, you'd better talk to the low-life prick who is responsible for paying them, the so-called "small business owner". That's how it works.

[BigBadBrian]

Fucking cursor keeps jumping..


No shit. Why the fuck is that? It's a pain in the ass....

[ELVIS]

The large ship building companies here in Louisiana hire illegals who have obtained Social Security numbers...

These are crimes committed by the employees and the employers and should be strictly enforced...

[ELVIS]

In addition, the wages in this area are gradually being pulled down due to the illegals being willing to work for very low pay...

[ELVIS]

What percentage of illegal immigrants are criminals?

100%

Being an illegal immigrant is a crime...

[VanHalener]

When these pricks steal from my friend's store the god dammed courts let the bastards walk BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL and it' is expensive and complicated to take these fucking worthless fucks from the south to task.

In northern Virginia you do not have to obey the law, if you are an illegal immigrant. There are a lot of good folks coming from the south who just want a better life, I know, but I see the fucking thieves everywhere. They tried to sell my buddy a stolen 10hp outboard for $20, or beer money. That motor was worth $1000 and I made sure the fuck went to jail for the night. What did they do? Let him walk the next day without a court date. FUCKING BULLSHIT.

I'd like to round them up and kick them the fuck out of MY country. I served America with an M16 in one hand and an olive branch in the other, and that makes this MY country. I pay taxes to the government, and that makes this MY country. I support my local community in various ways. MINE! I suffer the penalty of law if I fuck up. MY COUNTRY! I could go on but motherfucker this is my country, not some fucking illegal immigrant looking for a free and lawless ride through my neighborhood.

Obama can kiss my white ass, motherfucker.

I am pissed off and think I will go steal some Mexicans car and trash it. Fuck YOUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!

[ELVIS]

Amen brother!

The logistics of having illegals infiltrate our society are mind boggling...

[ELVIS]

Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Ariz. law (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100429/D9FCDCN00.html)

PHOENIX (AP) - Many of the cars that once stopped in the Home Depot parking lot to pick up day laborers to hang drywall or do landscaping now just drive on by.
Arizona's sweeping immigration bill allows police to arrest illegal immigrant day laborers seeking work on the street or anyone trying to hire them. It won't take effect until summer but it is already having an effect on the state's underground economy.
"Nobody wants to pick us up," Julio Loyola Diaz says in Spanish as he and dozens of other men wait under the shade of palo verde trees and lean against a low brick wall outside the east Phoenix home improvement store.
Many day laborers like Diaz say they will leave Arizona because of the law, which also makes it a state crime to be in the U.S. illegally and directs police to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegal immigrants.

Supporters of the law hope it creates jobs for thousands of Americans.
"We want to drive day labor away," says Republican Rep. John Kavanagh, one of the law's sponsors.
An estimated 100,000 illegal immigrants have left Arizona in the past two years as it cracked down on illegal immigration and its economy was especially hard hit by the Great Recession. A Department of Homeland Security report on illegal immigrants estimates Arizona's illegal immigrant population peaked in 2008 at 560,000, and a year later dipped to 460,000.
The law's supporters hope the departure of illegal immigrants will help dismantle part of the underground economy here and create jobs for thousands of legal residents in a state with a 9.6 percent unemployment rate.
Kavanagh says day labor is generally off the books, and that deprives the state of much-needed tax dollars. "We'll never eliminate it, just like laws against street prostitution," he says. "But we can greatly reduce the prevalence."
Day laborers do jobs including construction, landscaping and household work for cash paid under the table. Those jobs have been harder to find since the housing industry collapsed here several years ago.
Standing near potted trees and bushes for sale at a Home Depot in east Phoenix, Diaz, 35, says he may follow three families in his neighborhood who moved to New Mexico because of the law. He says a friend is finding plenty of work in Dallas.
Diaz says he has too much to lose by staying - he's supporting a wife and infant son back home in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, across the border from El Paso, Texas.
"They depend on me to survive," he says. "I'm not going to wait for police to come and arrest me."
Jose Armenta, a 33-year-old illegal immigrant from Mexico's western coast, is already planning to move to Utah within the next 20 days because of a combination of the economy and the new law.
"A lot of people drive by," he says as he watched nearby cars speeding past, "and they yell, 'Hey, go back to Mexico!'"
Analysts say it's too soon to tell what lasting effects the law will have on the state's underground work force, which also includes baby sitters, maids and cooks.
A study of immigrants in Arizona published in 2008 found that non-citizens, mostly in the country illegally, held an estimated 280,000 full-time jobs. The study by researcher Judith Gans at the University of Arizona examined 2004 data, finding that they contributed about 8 percent of the state's economic output, or $29 billion.
Losing hundreds of thousands of unskilled laborers wouldn't hurt the state's economy in the short term, but it could limit the economy's ability to grow once it recovers, says Marshall Vest, director of the Economic and Business Research Center at the University of Arizona's Eller College of Management.
Legal workers who are willing to take any available job now will become more choosy if the unemployment rate falls back to low levels seen before the recession hit.
"That's really the question, as to whether the existing population is willing to work those (low-level) jobs," Vest says. "I think economics provides the answer. If job openings have no applicants, then businesses need to address that by raising the offered wage."
Some illegal immigrants, however, intended to stick around.
Natalia Garcia, 35, from Mexico City, says she and her husband - a day laborer - will stay so their daughters - both born in the U.S. - can get a good education and learn English. The couple have been living in Arizona illegally for the last 10 years.
"Mexico doesn't have a lot of opportunities," she says. "Here, we work honestly, and we have a better life."
Olga Sanchez, 32, from southern Mexico, lives in Phoenix illegally with her two brothers, who are 21 and 17. While the youngest boy is in high school, all three work and send money back home to their parents.
"This law is very bad for us," says Sanchez, who gets about $250 a week cleaning three houses. "I'm afraid of what's going to happen."
She says the family is going to wait and see if the law takes effect and what the fallout will be before deciding whether to leave. The law is certain to be challenged in court; Phoenix, Tucson and Flagstaff already are considering lawsuits.
"All I ask from God is a miracle for us to stay here and work," she says.


:elvis:

[Seshmeister]

As Jesus always used to say 'Fuck you cleaner woman!.' :elvis:

[Nickdfresh]

Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Ariz. law (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100429/D9FCDCN00.html)

PHOENIX (AP) - ...
Supporters of the law hope it creates jobs for thousands of Americans.
"We want to drive day labor away," says Republican Rep. John Kavanagh, one of the law's sponsors.
An estimated 100,000 illegal immigrants have left Arizona in the past two years as it cracked down on illegal immigration and its economy was especially hard hit by the Great Recession. A Department of Homeland Security report on illegal immigrants estimates Arizona's illegal immigrant population peaked in 2008 at 560,000, and a year later dipped to 460,000.
The law's supporters hope the departure of illegal immigrants will help dismantle part of the underground economy here and create jobs for thousands of legal residents in a state with a 9.6 percent unemployment rate.
...
:elvis:


And here is the contradiction. No one really gives a shit about immigration issues when the economy is booming (with a very important exception made under the Clinton Administration). But the minute we hit a downturn, everyone starts clamoring the illegals must leave! It's kind of silly when even the stats in the article show the day laborers have left to a certain extent...

Again, this bill is convuluting TWO VERY DIFFERENT ISSUES! One is undocumented workers and their role in the economy: good, bad, or indifferent.

The second is the fear of Mexican (and other Latin American) gangs and drug cartels. The two are not directly related and many immigrants are actually fleeing the drug violence and banana republicanism that besets their often corrupt, ineptly governed countries...

[Guitar Shark]

Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Ariz. law (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100429/D9FCDCN00.html)

Supporters of the law hope it creates jobs for thousands of Americans.


Even if this actually happens, it will be interesting to see how many of those "Americans" will actually do this work for the same rate of pay. I think a lot of teh supporters of this bill are under the illusion that illegal workers will be replaced by legal ones with no consequences. Let's see how many of the unemployed "legals" in Arizona will do heavy labor for $8/hr. While the law has some benefits, they do not come without a cost. In this case, that cost is going to be increased labor costs which will be passed down to the consumer.

[Jagermeister]

He is most likely married to a beaner. He can't just go sending all his relatives back across the border.


This just in from CNN radio news - The Pima county sheriff says he will refuse to enforce this new racist ass law which he believes (and rightfully so) is unconstitutional.

Good to see that Tucson is still a little more sane than Phoenix. But I'm still not in a hurry to get to the desert.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Incidentally, speaking of illegal immigrant thugs and gangsters--some of their biggest victims are undocumented workers. And you know what? This bill will only make things worse, because honest, hardworking illegally hired workers will now only fear police more and will no longer cooperate with them in finding the true career criminals and narco-terrorist drug dealers...

Enjoy the violence...

yup, i'm sure the "linea caliente" is ringin' off the hook for tree trimmers from venezuala callin' in to rat out "el jefe" the human trafficer.

[MAX]

Right, super-genius. And I posted my opinion on why I think he's a dick for that. It's called having principles...

But whatever, if you really believe bumper-stickers should in anyway be some sort of probable cause, good luck!



"Principles?" Oh dear Nikk, your ignorance is showing.




Well, we have something in common. Maybe if I knew what yours were...



Whether you (or anyone else for that matter) disagree with my support of enforcing the law, that's entirely your problem. I don't support people breaking the law, do support cops enforcing it and letting the guilty party's having the door hit 'em where the good lord split them. Clear enough?




You mean the one where I actually posted the post-WWII legislation that effectively created the school lunch program?



Yeah, that's the one. Except you're excluding the part where I had to answer your own question for you. Again historian, the program ORIGINATED (that's what you initially asked in a vain attempt to stump me, no?) many years prior to WWII!!!




You really got me there, Maxi!!



Thanks and I'm grateful to get the kudos that I soooo rightfully deserved regarding that one. :D




I mean, you're quite a master debater.



Never once have I ever claimed to be as such. However, at times there's just way too much boo-fucking-hoo'ing in here and I cannot help but arguing. It's especially fun with you Nikk cos you're always in a pissy mood to begin with. Thus, it's extremely easy to push your buttons just by saying 'ello.



Have a spectacular day. :cool:

[MAX]

He is most likely married to a beaner. He can't just go sending all his relatives back across the border.

We all know where I stand regarding this issue but that wasn't fucking cool at all!!! :mad:

[MAX]

Even if this actually happens, it will be interesting to see how many of those "Americans" will actually do this work for the same rate of pay.

Check the unemployment stats lately? People are far more willing to do jobs they never even considered years ago just to bring home a paycheck and have a job.

Here's an example; My little bro owns a landscape company. Anyway, he has a lot of Mexicans on his payroll. Ummmm... He also makes them fill out W-2's prior to hiring them and they're all legal. I mean, he doesn't want to ever be audited and break the fucking law!!! Regardless and not the point. Anyhoo, I was helping him do a deck last summer for some extra cash. He always takes the crew to lunch, we went to a Carl's Jr. where the staff behind the counter were all caucasian people who appeared as if they should be retired. A couple of our Mexican co-workers started complaining that the economy had gotten so bad that white people were taking the Mexican jobs!!! Seriously, they were beyond irked that these old folks weren't sitting home, playing pinochle and had to actually work just like everyone else.

So Sharky, just goes to show that YES the American public both will and do take the jobs that you're implying they will not.

[FORD]

The large ship building companies here in Louisiana hire illegals who have obtained Social Security numbers...


Nah, that's just a rumor that they spread around town..... :biggrin:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LNB6M7yTBo

[Jagermeister]

Are u married to a beaner also?


Fuck I am sorry bro. I am bad about throwing around racial slurs with little regard for whom they might offend. I just have a problem with wet back greasers primarily.

Again no offence.

[Jagermeister]

You seem to be pretty good at it. Have you been studying The Racial Slur Database?

I know the guy that wrote it. I subscribe to the "can" theory.

[Jagermeister]

Here is a link.:biggrin:

http://www.rsdb.org/

[MAX]

Are u married to a beaner also?

I'm sorry but I'm unaware of that term? My girlfriend happens to be of both Italian and Irish descents though. Oh wait... I get it with the food reference... Ahhhhhh... Yes, she can be a meatball at times but she loves me in spite of my faults. :)



Fuck I am sorry bro. I am bad about throwing around racial slurs with little regard for whom they might offend. I just have a problem with wet back greasers primarily.

Again no offence.

No "offence" taken cos I'm also bad about throwing around slurs with little regard for whom they might offend. I just have a problem with ignorant, bigoted, white fucking trash... Primarily.

[Blackflag]

Who is this honkey biatch white bread subdivision-dwelling motherfucker?

Jagermeister is like rat puke, btw.

[Jagermeister]

I don't understand why people are offended by slurs. I resemble a cracker. What's the big damn deal. I don’t resemble white trash so when called that I simply don’t care because it does not represent me in the least. So I suspect that if ”wet back” “beaner” or “ greaser”is offensive to someone it must be because they feel it actually represents them in some way.

Does “legal immigrant” stir any emotion? No. Does illegal immigrant driving around with no insurance no drivers license, paying no taxes stir any emotion? Damn straight it does. Ameri 'cans have earned the right to bash illegal immigrants in my opinion. Freedom of speech only applies to you if you are in the country legally. Other wise shut the fuck up.

Thanks and have a nice day.:)

[Guitar Shark]

Check the unemployment stats lately? People are far more willing to do jobs they never even considered years ago just to bring home a paycheck and have a job.

Here's an example; My little bro owns a landscape company. Anyway, he has a lot of Mexicans on his payroll. Ummmm... He also makes them fill out W-2's prior to hiring them and they're all legal. I mean, he doesn't want to ever be audited and break the fucking law!!! Regardless and not the point. Anyhoo, I was helping him do a deck last summer for some extra cash. He always takes the crew to lunch, we went to a Carl's Jr. where the staff behind the counter were all caucasian people who appeared as if they should be retired. A couple of our Mexican co-workers started complaining that the economy had gotten so bad that white people were taking the Mexican jobs!!! Seriously, they were beyond irked that these old folks weren't sitting home, playing pinochle and had to actually work just like everyone else.

So Sharky, just goes to show that YES the American public both will and do take the jobs that you're implying they will not.

I don't understand how checking the unemployment stats is going to answer the question of whether the unemployed are going to do menial labor for low pay. My wife has been unemployed for over a year and I don't have to check the unemployment stats to know that she isn't going to be applying for any fruit picking gigs. The example you gave of your "little bro" is such a small sample of evidence that it's not really worth discussing, but even if it is, you've hardly shown that this isolated incident is representative of the labor force as a whole. I just don't see most American unemployed rushing out to take menial labor jobs, no matter how long they've been unemployed. Maybe I'm wrong, but no one has a crystal ball here.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Maybe I'm wrong, but no one has a crystal ball here.

ace might:hee:

[Guitar Shark]

I said crystal ball, not crystal meth.

[MAX]

I said crystal ball, not crystal meth.

LMAO!!! :biggrin:

Ok, I see you still have a sense of humor. That's a relief cos I've been rather worried as of late. :(

Anyhoo Sharky,

Uh oh, you'd better be careful stating that about what your wife will not do for work cos some people around here might just misconstrue that "picking fruit" is only what "brown" people do for employment?

Also, I'm still not the least bit aplogetic for what I said to you yesterday, fucker. :)

[Seshmeister]

Here is a link.:biggrin:

http://www.rsdb.org/

Do you find that clever or funny?


Slur Represents Reasons/Origins
10% Off - Jews- Refers to circumcision and consumerism (never pay retail). The term is most widely used in the UK where circumcision among non-Jews or non-Muslims is more rare, but in the United States, where it is more common, it can be considered insulting to many non-Jewish males as well.
51st Stater - Canadians - Canada is so culturally similar to the U. S. that they are practically the 51st state
539 - Jews- Corresponds with the letters J-E-W on a telephone.
7-11 - Arabs- Work at menial jobs like 7-11 clerks.

It's just fucking pathetic.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

I said crystal ball, not crystal meth.

i was thinkin' along the lines of a prosthetic noot

[chefcraig]

i was thinkin' along the lines of a prosthetic noot

No wonder the guy has issues. During the operation, when the doctor said "Hand me the plastic nut", apparently the nurse misunderstood.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9062/newselflockingnylonnuts.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/i/newselflockingnylonnuts.jpg/)

[Jagermeister]

Do you find that clever or funny?


It's just fucking pathetic.


Really? Is this offensive to you?
Clown Irish Not used so much as a racial slur, however, the classic clown is based on a stereotyped image of Irish people: bushy red hair, a large red nose (from excessive drinking), and colorful clothes often with plaids, and often with a great many patches to represent that the Irish were poor and could not buy themselves new clothes. With excessive plaid is a Scottish variation.

[MAX]

I resemble a cracker. What's the big damn deal.

You do? Please try and be more specific? What?? Wheat Thins, a triscuit or a saltine?? Either way, odds are you must resemble spongebob squarepants then, no? Cos he looks like a cracker to me.

Regardless, you must be one ugly motherfucker?

[Jagermeister]

You do? Please try and be more specific? What?? Wheat Thins, a triscuit or a saltine?? Either way, odds are you must resemble spongebob squarepants then, no? Cos he looks like a cracker to me.

Regardless, you must be one ugly motherfucker?


LMAO! That is some funny fuckin shit! Holy shit! Oh fuck, I ,I can't stop laughing! Oh please stop man!

[Jagermeister]

Sesh I was just joking with you Mr. Damn when did you get all proper and shit?

[Seshmeister]

Really? Is this offensive to you?
Clown Irish Not used so much as a racial slur, however, the classic clown is based on a stereotyped image of Irish people: bushy red hair, a large red nose (from excessive drinking), and colorful clothes often with plaids, and often with a great many patches to represent that the Irish were poor and could not buy themselves new clothes. With excessive plaid is a Scottish variation.

I didn't find it offensive at all, I just thought it was shit.