The Final Word on EVH’s VHI Setup?

[Jagermeister]

Stolen from the VHND. :dafinger:http://www.vhnd.com/2010/07/30/the-final-word-on-evh%e2%80%99s-vhi-setup/

The following article is a WoodyTone.com exclusive. WoodyTone is a great site for guitarists that’s written by a self-professed “tone-freak” who’s favorite guitarist is Edward Van Halen.



There’s been a lot of stuff written about, said about and speculated about regarding Edward Van Halen’s mind-blowing, world-altering Van Halen I setup. Was he running “slaved” amps (one amp into another), was he using some sort of boost and/or distortion pedal, etc.

If you read hard and don’t fall prey to speculation (which is tough!), it looks like he didn’t use more than his regular club setup, which was: Frankie guitar >> pedals >> his famed Marshall Super Lead (stated to be all or largely stock, but those heads were all different back then!), all knobs on 10 >> 4×12 cabinet(s) with Celestion 20- or 25-watt speakers and JBL-120s – and a Variac used to “brown” the sound and decrease the volume.

This makes sense – why would he change what he spent so much time dialing in? On the other hand, he was changing stuff all the time….

Anyhow, the latest shot fired in this tone info craziness comes from Dave Friedman, who knows Ed and his circle, and who recently posted the following on the MetroAmp.com forum:

“Well here is what I was told by Rudy Leiren [Ed's] long time tech. This was just last week. [Ed's VHI] setup was [MXR] flanger-[MXR] phaser-Echoplex-amp. His main 100-watt was used on everything. The [tube] bias was turned all the way up and the variac was set to 91 volts into only one cab.

“There is a pic of the early days with a 50-watt [head] and a Vox [head]. [Rudy] told me the 50 was a backup to the 100, and the Vox was a last-ditch backup. [Ed] often borrowed amps for his backups. In fact, [Rudy] told me a story that at a party they were playing, Ed blew a fuse in his main amp and did not have a backup and had to run home to get a fuse while the band was playing. After this he always made sure he had a backup.

“Rudy said the EQ pedal [MXR 6-band] was used only for certain guitars or sometimes when he used rental gear that sounded bad [meaning NOT on VHI?!]. Also the Univox echo [located in the practice bomb!] was patched in by hand for Eruption only, and then was taken out of the chain after.

“As time went on [post-VHI], more cabs were used and so were more amps. The amps would only drive one cab, though.

“He did say Ed was always trying [new things], but would always come back to this setup.

“This info follows everything Ed has ever said to me personally. Also, when ‘84 hit he changed his setup to H&H power amps and some different effects. He still used a cab off the head, though no load resistor. The Load resistor came for the 5150 tour.”

And there you have it.

[GAR]

That guy's accuracy is way off:

- it wasn't an MXR it was a Roland graphic EQ. And it was active AFTER the echoplex(s) to recover low frequency loss from the "record/playback" to tape.
- biasing the amp "way up" means nothing, he's botching terms here. Does he mean to say "biased hot" or biased cold at 110v wall power - which settled at perfect bias at 140v the way Kilgore describes "with the amp in Roths' Dads cellar on end, he turned it full up and we'd watch the tube bases melt. The things would start drooping sideways they'd get so hot!"

Nobody knows exactly and Rudy couldn't setup a guitar back then to save his life: why would anyone think Rudy knew how to scope and meter high voltages to tell how an amp was setup?

Nothing against Leiren, VH, the article or the guy posting on it.. it's just not enough info to go with in gaining an understanding of what's not seen in photos of Eds setup at the time.

[GAR]

.. and I'm sure I read about the load resistor prior to 1981, that's a good 4 years off from the 51-Shitty Tour right there!

[jhale667]

Aw, did the widdle troll get a TIME-OUT? :lmao:

[chefcraig]

Aw, did the widdle troll get a TIME-OUT? :lmao:

Nice variation on the "ignore" feature, eh J? :lol:

[jhale667]

Nice variation on the "ignore" feature, eh J? :lol:

I know, just when I was going to offer to call Matt Bruck for some clarification...:biggrin: j/k not bothering him with GAyR B.S. - ever...

[indeedido]

Technically, the eq was a Boss. What a mass of humanity with the wiring.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/EP3withAmp.jpg

[Hardrock69]

One other thing. I read an interview with spEd in the last couple of years where he admitted he used the Variac to crank the voltage UP, but that he lied about it because he did not want people to fry their amps by attempting to emulate him.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I could swear I read something like that.

[jhale667]

One other thing. I read an interview with spEd in the last couple of years where he admitted he used the Variac to crank the voltage UP, but that he lied about it because he did not want people to fry their amps by attempting to emulate him.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I could swear I read something like that.

Pretty sure I've actually read the reverse was true, he lowered it and said he raised it to throw people off (which also frys amps). I've also read interviews with Max Norman where he talks about Randy's use of a variac and lowering the voltage on his Marshalls for the Blizzard and DOAM sessions as well.

[Hardrock69]

Hmmm. I never heard him say he raised the voltage in all the years he has been around.

He ALWAYS said he lowered the voltage, so I was surprised to hear him say differently. Can't recall where I read it.

I am pretty sure I saw it somewhere though.

[chefcraig]

Hmmm. I never heard him say he raised the voltage in all the years he has been around.

He ALWAYS said he lowered the voltage, so I was surprised to hear him say differently. Can't recall where I read it.

I am pretty sure I saw it somewhere though.

It sounds counter intuitive to raise the voltage, because it would simply smoke the amp. I remember him saying that he lowered the voltage so he could run the amp wide open without cooking it. He at one time claimed to have used a dimmer switch as well, but you really have to question just about anything the guy says these days, as the mid-seventies were many years (and apparently, many fried braincells) ago.

[VanHalenFan5150]

I'm fifteen and my dad never taught me about electricity and how it affects amps. I know the variac lowered the voltage (or in this case, raised it)-- but what effect did it have on his sound?

[Diamondjimi]

I'm fifteen and my dad never taught me about electricity and how it affects amps. I know the variac lowered the voltage (or in this case, raised it)-- but what effect did it have on his sound?

He never raised it. He lowered it. By lowering the voltage it is essentially starving the amp of power thus causing a more saturated tone...

[chefcraig]

I'm fifteen and my dad never taught me about electricity and how it affects amps. I know the variac lowered the voltage (or in this case, raised it)-- but what effect did it have on his sound?

In that era, amps didn't have built-in distortion options (pre amps). In order to get an over driven sound, you had to use a pedal or device (such as a reel to reel tape recorder) to act as a pre amp, or you had to run the damned thing full up, which wasn't a very practical thing to do when your parents were around. Even if they weren't, the neighbors certainly would complain about the noise.

And this extended to club gigs as well. So EVH would lower the voltage of the electricity to the amp, allowing him to get the sound he desired at a lower overall volume. This resulted in a beefier tone, with more cleanly pronounced highs. It also gave off a great sound for chording during rhythm play. It was a very distinct sound, as can be heard on the first few albums and bootlegs of the time. It is a sound that Gene Simmons totally ignored however, when he recorded those famous demos for the group. Fortunately, Ted Templeton had the common sense to utilize it on the first three albums, yet abandoned it afterward. (This is probably due to Ed having money to experiment.) This is also why when it was released, people my age immediately thought that "Hot For Teacher" sounded like good old fashioned VH, as it was a welcome return to Ed's earlier sound.

[VanHalenFan5150]

Oh, well that's very neat, I kind of thought it was something similar to that. But thanks for explaining. I've heard Ed has used Vox, Marshalls, Peaveys, and Soldano's amps even-- but I don't know where/when he used his Soldano amps. Does anybody know? Hm...

[indeedido]

He used Soldanos before he went to Peavey in the very early 90s.

[ThrillsNSpills]

In that era, amps didn't have built-in distortion options (pre amps). In order to get an over driven sound, you had to use a pedal or device (such as a reel to reel tape recorder) to act as a pre amp, or you had to run the damned thing full up, which wasn't a very practical thing to do when your parents were around. Even if they weren't, the neighbors certainly would complain about the noise.


Ah but it's a beautiful noise. I had an old Sony 7" reel to reel that I accidentally got the Beatles Revolution sound from.
I didn't run it through an amp though, just the speaker on the machine. Remember those Wollensacks from the 50's that doubled as a weapon in case there were any intruders? LMAO

One time I asked my brother how Joe Walsh got the distorted sound on Funk 49. So he says you hit the low notes on a bar chord and you do this, and he turned the fucking amp all the way up. So me mum throws the door open and the poor woman was screaming. At least her lips were movin,' but it was so loud that I couldn't tell. I was maybe 12 or 13 at the time and completely in shock. That, along with slowing things down on that reel to reel were my guitar lessons.
(still can't believe he did that) was a whole new world after that......

[Jagermeister]

Again. How nice to have a discussion wo multiple go fuck you selfs and eat shit GAR posts.

[chefcraig]

Ah but it's a beautiful noise. I had an old Sony 7" reel to reel that I accidentally got the Beatles Revolution sound from.
I didn't run it through an amp though, just the speaker on the machine. Remember those Wollensacks from the 50's that doubled as a weapon in case there were any intruders? LMAO

There were a couple of ways to do it. You could plug the guitar into the microphone jack, then run a cable to the amp out of the headphone jack. Or, you could play without the amp at all, by plugging into the microphone jack and hitting "record", using the machine's speaker. It was also fun to do the latter and use the headphones, too.

[VanHalenFan5150]

I once had a shitty 5w practice amp. I'd open my window and crank it, and it sounded okay. The neighbor's didn't mind. But when that bastard who plays tuba across the street started playing I was glad I moved up to a bigger amp! Let's just say the fucker didn't bother trying to blow brass again

[ThrillsNSpills]

There were a couple of ways to do it. You could plug the guitar into the microphone jack, then run a cable to the amp out of the headphone jack. Or, you could play without the amp at all, by plugging into the microphone jack and hitting "record", using the machine's speaker. It was also fun to do the latter and use the headphones, too.

Did you do this with a bass? Did you get the Memo from Turner sound or the Rapper by the Jaggerz kind of sound?
I would have never thought to incorporate a find like that into recordings at the time. I was still angrily trying to play an F chord.

[chefcraig]

Did you do this with a bass? Did you get the Memo from Turner sound or the Rapper by the Jaggerz kind of sound?
I would have never thought to incorporate a find like that into recordings at the time. I was still angrily trying to play an F chord.

The guitar worked quite well without the fear of damaging the speaker at all, yet with the bass, I always ran through the amp for fear of blowing the little 3 inch speaker in the recorder to bits. (For shits and giggles, my friends and I would "launch" the tiny speakers out of transistor radios, using the bass. You'd wire them up, place them face down on the garage floor then whomp on the bass, sending them into orbit.) The overall sound was much like Mel Schacher's bass sound from the Grand Funk Live album or Larry Graham's from Sly And The Family Stone's "Dance To The Music". And to this day, it is a sound that I prefer on about 75% of my playing. Remember, my fingers are not quite as nimble as they were, so anything I can do to make up for the loss of dexterity is welcomed. And sadly, this includes occasionally using a pick on some of the up-tempo numbers, a practice I have scorned until recently. :ashamed:

[Hardrock69]

That sounds hilarious about the tiny transistor radio speakers.

Only place you can find small crummy transistor radios like that anymore is at garage sales.

[neuralfraud]

Noob here. Hello.

Lately (as in the past couple of years, actually) I've been on a small quest to figure out and understand the EVH tone from the VH1 era (among other eras)

My personal understanding is that it involves reamping in the studio - that is to say, recorded dry signal is pumped through another amplifier and re-recorded, thus being re-amped..

I've also found this particular site though and the guy has written quite a bit of information on amp tone, settings, and especially EVH and the VH1 tone, therefore I think it would be relevant to post a link: http://amptone.com/.

Tube amps are quite interesting. The plate voltages can be quite high, and so long as the power transformer will handle it, excess voltages can be tolerated. Theoretically it would be louder. I guess the lowering of voltage has the effect of actually adding distortion because the tubes are attempting to draw far more current than what is available and if it's anything similar to playing any other amp and suddenly having the power cut out, it produces a slightly fizzy type of distortion. All I really know is that even expensive guitar processors suck at emulating that tone ;)

[Diamondjimi]

Noob here. Hello.

Lately (as in the past couple of years, actually) I've been on a small quest to figure out and understand the EVH tone from the VH1 era (among other eras)

My personal understanding is that it involves reamping in the studio - that is to say, recorded dry signal is pumped through another amplifier and re-recorded, thus being re-amped..



One thing people tend to overlook here is the talents of Donn Landee. He is partly responsible for the classic EVH tone "on record". Capturing his tone was half the battle. (See Simmons demos- NO Donn):umm:
There was plenty of eq'ing and tone shaping/compressing going on at the board, believe me. Don't get me wrong, Ed had the tone to begin with. There never been any talk of re-amping regarding recording Ed's guitar/amps.
However a prime example of re-amping can be heard on Randy Rhoads- The Quiet Riot Years.
A compilation of recordings from his days in Q.R. that were remixed by Kevin Dubrow. He felt Randys tone on the recordings wasn't doing him justice so he sent Randy's signal out to one of Carlos Cavazo"s Marshall stacks and re-recorded Randy on parallel tracks...

Re-amping- NO

Donn Landee- YES!

[jhale667]

One thing people tend to overlook here is the talents of Donn Landee. He is partly responsible for the classic EVH tone "on record". Capturing his tone was half the battle. (See Simmons demos- NO Donn):umm:
There was plenty of eq'ing and tone shaping/compressing going on at the board, believe me. Don't get me wrong, Ed had the tone to begin with. There never been any talk of re-amping regarding recording Ed's guitar/amps.
However a prime example of re-amping can be heard on Randy Rhoads- The Quiet Riot Years.
A compilation of recordings from his days in Q.R. that were remixed by Kevin Dubrow. He felt Randys tone on the recordings wasn't doing him justice so he sent Randy's signal out to one of Carlos Cavazo"s Marshall stacks and re-recorded Randy on parallel tracks...

Re-amping- NO

Donn Landee- YES!

Exactly, exactly. :baaa:

[Hardrock69]

Yup. He had a kickass sound to begin with. And 90% of the battle is won right there, as long as the engineers don't fuck it up after the fact, lol.

Donn deserves MUCH LARG. :baaa:

[Hardrock69]

Yup. He had a kickass sound to begin with. And 90% of the battle is won right there, as long as the engineers don't fuck it up after the fact, lol.

Donn deserves MUCH LARG. :baaa:

[Diamondjimi]

Much Larg indeed!

[jhale667]

The LARG is strong with that one.


:guitar:

[indeedido]

After hearing the isolated tracks that have surfaced in recent years, it sounds like Donn was overdriving the signal to get more dirt. Almost like he either overdrove the signal on the mic past clipping or raised the level past clipping.

[Nitro Express]

The tone on VH I had more to do with Don Landee and Ted Templeman than anything. Eddie sounded different live.

[GAR]

http://cgi.ebay.com/1967-PHILIPS-EL6911-VINTAGE-TAPE-ECHO-DELAY-STUDIO-UNIT-/120605024384?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

I heard this delay had a famous connection, to a famous producer in town.. who did some groundbreaking guitar recordings of such ambience the reverberation of which hasn't been heard from since 1982...

Just throwing a tip out there..

[GAR]

http://www.echotapper.nl/dev/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=33&Itemid=39

Philips EL 6911, A rare and very old tape echo

We've found someone in the northern part of Holland selling a contraption that was so rare that we did some fact finding on the Internet first. We googled a couple of entries even in Japan and decided to go-ahead in acquiring this device designed by Philips here in Eindhoven. At first the weight 26Kg (60lbs) was too high for sending it by post but after some persuasion by Jacob the guy did send it by DHL. Here is a total frontal view of the restored machine without the covers on:


http://www.echotapper.nl/images/ph/Voorzijde-Totaal-2_l.JPG