American Chopper - Sr vs Jr

[ZahZoo]

This looks like a fun follow-on. I was bummed when the original series ended...

http://tlc.discovery.com/videos/american-chopper-sr-vs-jr/

[chefcraig]

By the time the original series ended, it was an exercise in tedium. Paul Jr. was wandering about, unsure of what to do (designing a park for people to walk their dogs?) and about to open a boutique of clothing designed by his thimble-brained wife. The younger brother (who's apparent job was to serve as comic relief) had entered therapy for some sort of substance abuse, and Paul Sr. felt it was a great idea to design a bike for an oil rich, desert-dwelling multi-millionaire whose dishdasha wearing friends openly ridiculed the boorish American during the bike's unveiling.

According to the tv guide, Discovery Channel has been running repeats of the show during afternoon hours, no doubt attempting to whet the appetite of people that had lost track of the show when it was moved to TLC and a different time slot. At this point, who cares? It seems the new show's premise is to manufacture a weekly biker build-off between father and son. The initial charm of the series had a great deal to do with the father/son dynamic, but had it's core in the supporting cast (Vinny, Rick and Cody) and the creation of the bikes. Watching Paul Sr. bitch about how he doesn't understand his son while throwing a bike together with parts off the shelf while Paul Jr. doodles, takes coffee breaks and stares into space slack-jawed doesn't exactly sound like riveting entertainment.

[fryingdutchman]

I used to watch "American Chopper"...but then it became annoying.

It started to seem like the guys fancied themselves more "actors" than anything else, and by the end everything felt forced and scripted.

I hope that "Deadliest Catch" doesn't go down the same road, but I fear that the Hillstrand brothers have already gone "Hollywood" with their Geico commercials and other plugs.

[Hardrock69]

I watched AC for a year or two. Got burned out more than anything on Sr. yelling all the time and being a grumpy old man.
They focused more on the dysfunctional family dynamic it seemed than actually building custom choppers. And I got tired of that REAL fast!

[Hardrock69]

I watched AC for a year or two. Got burned out more than anything on Sr. yelling all the time and being a grumpy old man.
They focused more on the dysfunctional family dynamic it seemed than actually building custom choppers. And I got tired of that REAL fast!

[Nitro Express]

I watched AC for a year or two. Got burned out more than anything on Sr. yelling all the time and being a grumpy old man.
They focused more on the dysfunctional family dynamic it seemed than actually building custom choppers. And I got tired of that REAL fast!

I never thought their choppers were very good either. Mostly modified off the shelf parts. Nothing like Indian Larry or jesse James who could build their own frames, tanks, and pipes from scratch. Some builders even can machine their own engine parts. The Tuttles were never in that league and making corporate bikes is just wrong in my book. Choppers should piss on corporations.

[chefcraig]

I never thought their choppers were very good either. Mostly modified off the shelf parts. Nothing like Indian Larry or jesse James who could build their own frames, tanks, and pipes from scratch. Some builders even can machine their own engine parts. The Tuttles were never in that league and making corporate bikes is just wrong in my book. Choppers should piss on corporations.

I don't know if you've seen the show or not, but Discovery Channel used to have a series called Biker Build Off, and what you are saying is ridiculously true. In one episode, Billy Lane built a bike just about from scratch, while his opponent Roger Bourget simply went out to his multi-million dollar shop and pulled a bunch of parts off of the shelf. On top of that, while Lane had one guy and some hand tools (he measures by eye) helping him, Bourget had his staff doing the work for him. And Billy Lane won the round. What was even cooler was an episode pairing Lane and Indian Larry. When Larry was declared the winner, he refused the honor, and actually cut the trophy in half in order to share it with Lane.

RIP Indian Larry, you are indeed missed.

[Igosplut]

The fuckers outta have a show about bikes (that they build) that could be RIDDEN more than a few miles...

These guys are pretenders in the highest way.....

[Nitro Express]

I don't know if you've seen the show or not, but Discovery Channel used to have a series called Biker Build Off, and what you are saying is ridiculously true. In one episode, Billy Lane built a bike just about from scratch, while his opponent Roger Bourget simply went out to his multi-million dollar shop and pulled a bunch of parts off of the shelf. On top of that, while Lane had one guy and some hand tools (he measures by eye) helping him, Bourget had his staff doing the work for him. And Billy Lane won the round. What was even cooler was an episode pairing Lane and Indian Larry. When Larry was declared the winner, he refused the honor, and actually cut the trophy in half in order to share it with Lane.

RIP Indian Larry, you are indeed missed.

Billy Lane rocks. He's the real deal. My favorite episode was when Billy and Larry went toe to toe. Believe it or not but Billy graduated from college in engineering and turned a NASA job down to run his little shop.

[Nitro Express]

I will tell you who will win between Senior and Junior in the Tuttle wars. Senior hands down. Without him there would be no Orange County Choppers because he came out of the merchant marine and went into the decorative iron business starting with a pickup truck and a welder. I've started businesses myself and know how much work it is and when you are small being sloppy will put you out of business quick. The son just doesn't have it in him. Without daddy's business as a base and dad planting the foot in his son's ass they wouldn't meet the deadlines. The dad has his faults and the son complains about him sitting around but when you have build a business taking years to do it and you are the boss, you can sit in the office because you've delagated.

[ZahZoo]

Interesting... I agree with all points made here. It ain't the greatest show around and the family does have faults running deeper than the San Andreas.

I enjoyed the artistic elements, mixed with the slapstick and overlaid with the humanity. TV is just entertainment...

[Nitro Express]

Interesting... I agree with all points made here. It ain't the greatest show around and the family does have faults running deeper than the San Andreas.

I enjoyed the artistic elements, mixed with the slapstick and overlaid with the humanity. TV is just entertainment...

That family goes off the edge big time but there is a charitable side to them. The dad has an inferiority complex. I've seen it many times and he just needs to be happy with what he has built and stop getting all antsy and trying to prove himself with the macho thing. The son needs to be more of a self-starter. I thought my dad had a bad temper and lost it but man, nothing like this guy.

[chefcraig]

Never a channel afraid to jump on things and beat them to death, in addition to running the original series in the afternoons, Discovery is now rerunning TLC's "Senior VS Junior" shows two at a time, back to back on Monday nights. The show was awful enough the first time, and only sucks worse on a second viewing.

One of the things that made the original tick was seeing Paul Jr. taking investigative trips, camera in hand, in order to come to grips with the various subjects he would transfer into visions of bike building. This has been replaced at O.C.C. by business meetings, where a "concept" of the bike is formulated. This in turn is completed on a computer by the questionable talents of Jason Poole (more on him in a minute). The result is a series of bikes virtually indistinguishable from each other, with little if any attention to detail or sense of imagination. Look, you can not come up with a theme bike on a computer screen. You have to have some passion, integrity and again, imagination in order to bring a vision to life. There is no way the Firefighter/911 bike could have been built any other way than having Paul Jr. visit a firehouse and receive a piece from one of the fallen Twin Towers to include with it.

Now, we get to see Paul Senior making despicable comments about his sons, going so far as to build a ramp to launch and wreck a bike with, including his own son strapped to it in effigy. Lovely. And just who is this Jason Poole bitch, anyway? At every opportunity he is making crummy comments about Junior (when he isn't inserting his tongue firmly into Senior's asshole), somehow forgetting that without Junior working side by side with him in the early days, he wouldn't even have a job. This talent-free hack couldn't even get the logo angles correct on the word NAPA, so they flowed evenly as they diminished in size. So who is he to open up a fat mouth at anyone?

The other "characters" at O.C.C. have been reduced to being a sounding board for Senior's more and more bizarre and unraveling attacks on his sons, and it is indeed hard to watch. Whatever fun the show once held is gone, reduced to a run of the mill reality show focusing on the negative aspects of a very fucked up, dysfunctional family. Mikey seems to have transformed into a fat, sullenly morose and utterly clueless man-child, whose irresponsibility only worsens his cluelessness, aimlessly wandering about hopelessly adrift. (Careful study of the old show reveals that he was always a mess, and prone to unstable outbursts that were more often than not edited to appear humorous.)

So the show continues, but for how long who knows or even cares at this point. There is a degree of the old show's focus on actual bike building, but it's over at Paul Junior Designs, yet with only 2 bikes to it's credit, the shop work is hardly compelling tv. And with little else going on beside continuing vicious attacks from Senior while bragging about how innovative and great O.C.C. is (conveniently forgetting the role Junior had in getting the shop there), there isn't much reason to watch. Unless you enjoy depressing television focused on disturbed, irrational behavior. If that is the case, you are already watching A&E's Hoarders.

[Nitro Express]

They lost me when they started doing corporate choppers. Corporate and Chopper and two concepts that should be universes apart. It made me ill actually.

[lesfunk]

I actually had the opportunity to inspect one of their corporate themed bikes; The Microsoft chopper. It was a piece of shit. More than Half the "custom appointments" could be purchased by anyone right out of the JP cycles catalog. The truly custom built parts fit so poorly that they either were visibly out of line, or were jury rigged to make fit.
Even the O.C.C. data plate was on crooked. The seat didn't even fit the frame.

[Nitro Express]

I actually had the opportunity to inspect one of their corporate themed bikes; The Microsoft chopper. It was a piece of shit. More than Half the "custom appointments" could be purchased by anyone right out of the JP cycles catalog. The truly custom built parts fit so poorly that they either were visibly out of line, or were jury rigged to make fit.
Even the O.C.C. data plate was on crooked. The seat didn't even fit the frame.

What is more gay than a Microsoft chopper? An Apple chopper maybe with an Apple sticker and some of those Grateful Dead bears on it. I bet they even made an IBM chopper.

So basically O.C.C. made the Microsoft chopper about as good as Microsoft makes their software.

[ZahZoo]

The parallels to the dysfunctional aspects of Van Halen run real close with this show... Only difference is you have the Ed & Al charater rolled up into Paul Sr... a lost Mikey character... with a cast aside creative genius...

[Diamondjimi]

Used to watch the original show for a while, then after a while each episode seemed just like the last one.
The Tuttle's are a bunch of dysfunctional meatheads.

[SparkieD]

I met Paul Sr, Paulie, Vinny, and Cody at a gas station during MB Bike Week a few years back. All of 'em were super-nice guys, especially Vinny and Sr, who was completely smitten by my little (then 4 y/o) girl. Just as I had always suspected, he's a teddy bear underneath that hard-ass exterior.

[kwame k]

The parallels to the dysfunctional aspects of Van Halen run real close with this show... Only difference is you have the Ed & Al charater rolled up into Paul Sr... a lost Mikey character... with a cast aside creative genius...

:lmao: spot on assessment!

[kwame k]

We were talking about the "feud" between Sr and Jr.............the general consensus among my jaded friends is it's fabricated for ratings. Yes, Sr sued Jr but in reality they stopped being bike builders and became actors/celebrities several years ago..........IMHO, there's nothing real in this reality show.

[chefcraig]

We were talking about the "feud" between Sr and Jr.............the general consensus among my jaded friends is it's fabricated for ratings. Yes, Sr sued Jr but in reality they stopped being bike builders and became actors/celebrities several years ago..........IMHO, there's nothing real in this reality show.

It's just so damned contrived. Even the death of a roofer at PJD was played for pathos, as if how it affected the company was a great tragedy. Of course it was, but you'd think that someone could have mentioned the deceased by name at some point. Instead, Junior calls in his preacher, Senior waits several days to get in contact and only then while on camera. To me, that was the tipping point. This show is a thoroughly joyless affair, which is cynically grinding out footage with little if any regard to how morally bankrupt the whole enterprise has turned.

[kwame k]

It's just so damned contrived. Even the death of a roofer at PJD was played for pathos, as if how it affected the company was a great tragedy. Of course it was, but you'd think that someone could have mentioned the deceased by name at some point. Instead, Junior calls in his preacher, Senior waits several days to get in contact and only then while on camera. To me, that was the tipping point. This show is a thoroughly joyless affair, which is cynically grinding out footage with little if any regard to how morally bankrupt the whole enterprise has turned.

Fucking spot on assessment, dude........brilliant!!!!!!!!

[Nitro Express]

The parallels to the dysfunctional aspects of Van Halen run real close with this show... Only difference is you have the Ed & Al charater rolled up into Paul Sr... a lost Mikey character... with a cast aside creative genius...

A lost Mikey character. LOL! I think the Paul Sr. is the only one who can manage money and some work discipline. Jr. is too lazy and unfocused and that is the big difference between Daddy and son.

[GAR]

I actually had the opportunity to inspect one of their corporate themed bikes; The Microsoft chopper. It was a piece of shit. More than Half the "custom appointments" could be purchased by anyone right out of the JP cycles catalog. The truly custom built parts fit so poorly that they either were visibly out of line, or were jury rigged to make fit.
Even the O.C.C. data plate was on crooked. The seat didn't even fit the frame.

Sounds to me like it has been tinkered. On the show, they line these things up perfectly. AND I have seen them on the show ordering from the catalogue too, so that's nothing new. I thought this was common knowledge?

Swingarms, forks, gauges.. lines, all that stuff is cheaper to order. Their specialty is the integration.

But what I don't understand about Junior is how he leases a building, gets his lifts and tooling in there but he has no production planned - I don't get it!

Couldn't he have figured out how to import a small line of bikes he could mod and upgrade; build a small line himself of "Paul Jr." superbikes-on-a-budget that you get 2 or 3 engine options but everything elses' the same..

I just don't know why a guy goes off on his own, and THEN sits down to discuss custom theme-bikes for advertising? He blew that K of C opportunity bigtime - he should have just assumed the sale and went "okay we're building the bike, need your signature here" or.. -OR- just built that thing as his "first bike" prototype instead of building his "black widow 2" thing.

He would have finished the bike in time for approval from the K of C's logo-approver guy. Unless they were just lying to his face, shifting the blame in denial of an actual budget. The looked like broke old bastards to me anyways.

[lesfunk]

It wasn't tinkered GAR. The guy who brought in the shop to sell was the original owner. He was some software guy from Microsoft who won the bike in a company raffle and just wanted to dump it for cash. He never even rode it.
If it was tinkered, somebody took an awful lot of time just to fuck things up. I've spoken to several other people on the HD forums who have seen their work and all have similar stories.
The only thing I can say in their defense is that the Microsoft bike was an older build and their quality may have improved since. I doubt it though.

[GAR]

Out of curiosity the past week in talking to some builder friends of mine it is as you say, these guys build cheap stuff.

And they're quick to point out how superior they are compared to "OCC" - here in SoCal, our builders do motors a certain way, frames, bosses and flanges by themselves and file and dress the welds a certain way - after basically being lectured to death on the subject I have to concede by comparison SoCal builders are way better, and it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to better the OCC builds..

One guy goes "you could probably build better theme bikes" but bikes ain't really my thing, I have plenty of timetraps as things are now.

[chefcraig]

For anyone still interested at this point, Discovery is cashing in on what little interest the show still has by starting the new "season" tonight at 9PM (EST), followed by the interview show that was run last week. This appears to have been a last minute decision, as the ads for the show only started running last Friday, and most printed tv guides do not have either program included. Even YAHOO's daily tv listings makes no mention of the new show.

[chefcraig]

Orange County IDA questions Teutul's plans for new Choppers HQ

TIMES/HERALD RECORD (http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110318/BIZ/103180372)

TOWN OF NEWBURGH — The owner of Orange County Choppers is planning to build what appears to be a new headquarters next to the company's current headquarters, which is in foreclosure. And to members of a local economic development agency being asked to provide tax breaks for the project, the proposal doesn't pass the smell test.

Washingtonville planner Robert Daly presented the project to the Orange County Industrial Development Agency at its Wednesday meeting on behalf of a company called G&M Orange LLC. The owner of G&M Orange is Paul Teutul Sr., owner of Orange County Choppers.

The project calls for a three-story, 25,000-square-foot building on 2.3 acres at the intersection of Route 17K and Crossroads Court, next to the Choppers' current headquarters. Features include manufacturing and fabrication space, retail space, a 20-seat café, offices and warehouse space.

Preventing a foreclosure

The lender that financed Orange County Choppers' current headquarters, GE Commercial Finance Business Property Corp., filed a foreclosure action against the business in November, alleging it missed mortgage payments. Choppers has two mortgages through GE, one for $11 million and one for $1.5 million.

IDA board members suspect Teutul plans to move into the new building and abandon the current one to foreclosure.

"Don't we then become a party to avoiding a foreclosure?" board member Mary Ellen Rogulski asked. "Moving from building A to building B could probably be a way for a business to protect their business from a creditor."

Decision could cost area jobs

IDA Chairman James Petro at first seemed to favor the project, saying that if the IDA did not provide tax breaks, Orange County Choppers might leave the area, costing the region jobs. And then there's the national attention — and tourism dollars — the Choppers have brought to the region.

Petro ultimately acknowledged the project created at least the appearance of inappropriateness.

Planner tries to hide connection

The IDA gave the Choppers a package of tax breaks to build its current headquarters — which opened just three years ago. Last summer, the board approved a 10-year PILOT, or payment in lieu of taxes, for a restaurant the Choppers planned to build next to the headquarters.

During Wednesday's meeting, Daly attempted to conceal the connection between the new project and the Choppers.

"G&M Orange is not Orange County Choppers," he insisted.

"What is the product the company will produce?" board member John Steinberg asked.

"Fabrication of motorcycles," Daly replied.

Steinberg refined his question.

"Is this going to compete with the existing facility?"

Daly said no, and ultimately acknowledged Teutul was the principal of G&M Orange.

GE spokesman John Oliver declined to comment, except to say the company was proceeding with the foreclosure. Neither Teutul nor his lawyer returned calls seeking comment.

History of woes with creditors

This is not the first time the family behind the Choppers have been accused of dodging creditors.

Teutul Sr. and his sons Paul Teutul Jr. and Daniel Teutul were accused of engineering the bankruptcy of another family business, O.C. Iron Works Inc., in 2005 to avoid paying the company's creditors.

Two years later, the bankruptcy trustee filed a complaint saying the Teutuls systematically moved the assets of the steel-fabrication business to a new company with a similar name, then had O.C. Iron Works file for bankruptcy.

Daniel Teutul and the iron company agreed to pay $500,000 to settle the complaint. The two Pauls agreed to pay $50,000.

[Nitro Express]

What a scumbag. It's no different than a athletic team owner telling a city build me a new stadium or we will move the team to a new city. Honestly, it's a bike shop and due to the economy people aren't blowing $100,000 on a custom chopper like they were in the easy credit days. I never thought Orange County Choppers were all that great. They are pretty much made from off the shelf parts. Unless you are bending and welding your own frame and hand hammering out your own tanks, you are just a assembler doing some custom work here and there.