Killer, Coward, Con-man Good Riddance, Gipper ...more Proof Only The Good Die Young

[John Ashcroft]

You're not going to like this. You shouldn't speak ill of the dead. But in this case, someone's got to.

Ronald Reagan was a conman. Reagan was a coward. Reagan was a killer.

In 1987, I found myself stuck in a crappy little town in Nicaragua named Chaguitillo. The people were kind enough, though hungry, except for one surly young man. His wife had just died of tuberculosis.

People don't die of TB if they get some antibiotics. But Ronald Reagan, big hearted guy that he was, had put a lock-down embargo on medicine to Nicaragua because he didn't like the government that the people there had elected.

Ronnie grinned and cracked jokes while the young woman's lungs filled up and she stopped breathing. Reagan flashed that B-movie grin while they buried the mother of three.

And when Hezbollah terrorists struck and murdered hundreds of American marines in their sleep in Lebanon, the TV warrior ran away like a whipped dog … then turned around and invaded Grenada. That little Club Med war was a murderous PR stunt so Ronnie could hold parades for gunning down Cubans building an airport.

I remember Nancy, a skull and crossbones prancing around in designer dresses, some of the "gifts" that flowed to the Reagans -- from hats to million-dollar homes -- from cronies well compensated with government loot. It used to be called bribery.

And all the while, Grandpa grinned, the grandfather who bleated on about "family values" but didn't bother to see his own grandchildren.

The New York Times today, in its canned obit, wrote that Reagan projected, "faith in small town America" and "old-time values." "Values" my ass. It was union busting and a declaration of war on the poor and anyone who couldn't buy designer dresses. It was the New Meanness, bringing starvation back to America so that every millionaire could get another million.

"Small town" values? From the movie star of the Pacific Palisades, the Malibu mogul? I want to throw up.

And all the while, in the White House basement, as his brain boiled away, his last conscious act was to condone a coup d'etat against our elected Congress. Reagan's Defense Secretary Casper the Ghost Weinberger with the crazed Colonel, Ollie North, plotted to give guns to the Monster of the Mideast, Ayatolla Khomeini.

Reagan's boys called Jimmy Carter a weanie and a wuss although Carter wouldn't give an inch to the Ayatolla. Reagan, with that film-fantasy tough-guy con in front of cameras, went begging like a coward cockroach to Khomeini pleading on bended knee for the release of our hostages.

Ollie North flew into Iran with a birthday cake for the maniac mullah -- no kidding --in the shape of a key. The key to Ronnie's heart.

Then the Reagan roaches mixed their cowardice with crime: taking cash from the hostage-takers to buy guns for the "contras" - the drug-runners of Nicaragua posing as freedom fighters.

I remember as a student in Berkeley the words screeching out of the bullhorn, "The Governor of the State of California, Ronald Reagan, hereby orders this demonstration to disperse" … and then came the teargas and the truncheons. And all the while, that fang-hiding grin from the Gipper.

In Chaguitillo, all night long, the farmers stayed awake to guard their kids from attack from Reagan's Contra terrorists. The farmers weren't even Sandinistas, those 'Commies' that our cracked-brained President told us were 'only a 48-hour drive from Texas.' What the hell would they want with Texas, anyway?

Nevertheless, the farmers, and their families, were Ronnie's targets.

In the deserted darkness of Chaguitillo, a TV blared. Weirdly, it was that third-rate gangster movie, "Brother Rat." Starring Ronald Reagan.

Well, my friends, you can rest easier tonight: the Rat is dead.

Killer, coward, conman. Ronald Reagan, good-bye and good riddance.

Link: Fuck this asshole! (http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=336&row=0)

[Satan]

http://www.bartcop.com/bitburg.jpg
Bonzo Goes To Bitburg
(Dee Dee Ramone/ Jean Beauvoir)

You've got to pick up the pieces C'mon, sort your trash
You better pull yourself back together Maybe you've got too much cash
Better call, call the law When you gonna turn yourself in? Yeah
You're a politician Don't become one of Hitler's children

Bonzo goes to bitburg then goes out for a cup of tea
As I watched it on TV somehow it really bothered me
Drank in all the bars in town for an extended foreign policy
Pick up the pieces
My brain is hanging upside down I need something to slow me down
My brain is hanging upside down I need something to slow me down

Shouldn't wish you happiness, wish her the very best Fifty thousand dollar dress
Shaking hands with your highness See through you like cellophane
You watch the world complain, but you do it anyway Who am I, am I to say

Bonzo goes to bitburg then goes out for a cup of tea
As I watched it on TV somehow it really bothered me
Drank in all the bars in town for an extended foreign policy
Pick up the pieces

My brain is hanging upside down I need something to slow me down
My brain is hanging upside down I need something to slow me down

If there's one thing that makes me sick It's when someone tries to hide behind politics
I wish that time could go by fast Somehow they manage to make it last

My brain is hanging upside down I need something to slow me down
My brain is hanging upside down I need something to slow me down
My brain is hanging upside down I need something to slow me down
My brain is hanging upside down I need something to slow me down

[DaveIsKing]

All these "TOLERANT" liberals seem to love kicking a dead man.

You are all toilet scum. And you want to talk about hate. I am capable of both love and hate.

I HATE liberals. Ok...HATE, HATE, HATE!!! Do you comprehend that??

Good.

Go start an ANTI-DEFAMATION club for Libbies. And rank DaveIsKing as enemy #1.

[VanJay011379]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
I remember as a student in Berkeley [/URL]

What else do you expect from a student of Berkeley?

[Satan]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
All these "TOLERANT" liberals seem to love kicking a dead man.

You are all toilet scum. And you want to talk about hate. I am capable of both love and hate.

I HATE liberals. Ok...HATE, HATE, HATE!!! Do you comprehend that??

Good.

Go start an ANTI-DEFAMATION club for Libbies. And rank DaveIsKing as enemy #1.

I invented hate.
So there ;)

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by VanJay011379
What else do you expect from a student of Berkeley?

Ditto.

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by Satan
I invented hate.
So there ;)

Well, I have plenty of it...for certain fuck-ups.

And love for those who deserve it. :D

[VanJay011379]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
All these "TOLERANT" liberals seem to love kicking a dead man.


This is liberal tolerance right here.

ridiculously offensive picture removed. BTW, I love how it came from "WAR room .com" Nothing more pro-life than slaughter, huh?

[DaveIsKing]

Partial-birth abortion?

That's just fucking sad.

I don't want to hear another liberal talk about the Holocaust of Nazi Germany, when they wholeheartedly support INFANTICIDE in PARTIAL-BIRTH abortions.

Another form of hypocrisy. HYPOCRISY- The Liberal Creed.

[DaveIsKing]

What's the MATTER, FORD?????

Can't FUCKING HANDLE THE GODDAMNED TRUTH?????

Just like a Libbie.

[FORD]

Fuck off and die, you racist piece of shit.

[DaveIsKing]

Trigger words from FORD.

"racist"

Ad Hominem from FORD.

"piece of shit"

Tolerance and Love from FORD.

"fuck off and die"


I feel the LOVE, DIVERSITY AND UTOPIAN TOLERANCE from you, FORD, old pal.

[DaveIsKing]

I love it how libbies call everyone who disagrees with them "racist". LMAO!

Isn't it funny how Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and all these liberal pricks keep blacks and other minorities thinking that they are helpless weenies all dependent on the government and rich white people?

Who's the REAL racists, here?

Black men like Alan Keyes and Larry Elder make something of themselves because they don't listen to the bullshit liberal's spew about "racism" and "hate crimes" and all that fucking racist trigger language meant to keep blacks "in their place".

Cause that's where LIBERALS want them. "In their place". Portrayed as poor, dumb, illiterate, minorites.

FORD, you liberals are as racist as the NAZIS you damn so much.

Another form of your creed--HYPOCRISY.

[FORD]

"I don't believe in blaming GUNS for crime, but people and over-extended illegal immigration. Gangs are primarily minorities...right? Minorities make up the least amount of people in America and the highest rate of crime. It's called baring responsibility. Instead of blaming Charleton Heston and the NRA, why not blame "J-Dog" and "Juan" for pulling the trigger, doing the crack coke, and being stupid." - 6/3/04

" I think people should get down on their hands and knees and thank Western Europeans & Americans for all the inventions, luxuries, technology and scientific/medical breakthroughs we have created or discovered. It's time for the Third Worlders to acknowledge who keeps them up.

It's funny how people (liberals especially) bitch all the time, but fail to see that those CARS they drive, that ELECTRICITY they use, the CLOTHES they wear, the HOUSE they live in, the MEDICINE they take, and the FREEDOM they have are due to those they damn the most-- THAT'S RIGHT...Stuffy old white Europeans and Americans." -0 6/07/04

[DaveIsKing]

Damn. I agree with that FACTUAL statement.

FORD, you seem to have a problem with FACTS.

But, hell, I can't blame ya...ALL LIBERALS DO.

[John Ashcroft]

But wait! There's more!

Who doesn't like Reagan?
Some critics silent, others can't hide venom

While some long-time critics of President Ronald Reagan stifled their inclination to criticize the dead, others launched the kind of venomous attacks that marked his long career in politics.

Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi said yesterday he regretted Reagan died without ever standing trial for 1986 air strikes he ordered that killed the Libyan president's adopted daughter and 36 other people.

Ronald Reagan ordered the April 15, 1986, air raid in response to a discotheque bombing in Berlin allegedly ordered by Khadafy that killed two U.S. soldiers and a Turkish woman and injured 229 people.

"I express my deep regret because Reagan died before facing justice for his ugly crime that he committed in 1986 against the Libyan children," Libya's official Jana news agency quoted Gadhafi as saying.

Stateside, the verbal attacks were just as vicious.

Ed Weathers, a writer for the Memphis Flyer, had this to say: "Forgive me, but I am about to speak ill of the dead.

"In the coming months, the Republican propaganda machine will shift into high gear. Their goal: to turn Ronald Reagan into a saint. Just watch. First will come the coffin in the Capitol rotunda. Then there will be a proposal to put Reagan’s face on the dollar coin. Next will come a demand that his statue appear on the Washington Mall. And at the Republican Convention in September – oh, just wait. The highlight of that week will be a long, elegiac video of Saint Ronald, with moving music, snippets of favorite speeches, and the voiceover of, say, Charlton Heston. When the video ends, there will be heard the rapturous cheers of the faithful.

"Then George W. Bush will try to ride Ronald Reagan’s coffin back into the White House.

"For that reason, it is necessary now to speak ill of the dead.

"As president, Ronald Reagan was a mediocrity. He has left no legacy. He did not change the world in any significantly good way. His greatest achievement was to win a war with Grenada. He ran for president blaming Jimmy Carter for high gas prices and for letting Americans be taken hostage in Iran – both situations that no American president could have prevented.”

Trevor Royle of the Sunday Herald in Scotland offered this assessment: "Reagan remained an actor, not a doer.

"Perhaps because he saw himself as a patriot, a Forrest Gump before his time, he allied himself with the McCarthy faction and joined those Hollywood bigots who lined themselves up against anything that smacked of communism and the perils of the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War in the early 1950s," wrote Royle. "It was unworthy of him and unworthy of the country at the time, but it marked him and had he not entered politics he could have ended up a bad actor who chose bad politics."

David Swanson, media coordinator for the International Labor Communications Association, wrote this for AlterNet.org: "Reagan is also the source of many of the relationships in Iran and Iraq that have troubled the United States since. Kevin Phillips' recent book 'American Dynasty' does a good job of summarizing the strong evidence that Bill Casey and George H.W. Bush made a deal with the Iranians not to release the hostages until after the 1980 U.S. presidential election. This would mean that Reagan's election was illegal, that the trading during the Iran-Contra scandal had a precedent, that Reagan and G.H.W. Bush's buildup of Saddam Hussein's military was motivated in part by a desire to counter weaponry and money that the United States had given Iran in exchange for Reagan's election, that our media has completely fallen down on the job, and that we're all a bunch of suckers."

AlterNet.org also republished a short piece by David Corn of the Nation titled "66 Unflattering Things About Ronald Reagan."

Counterpunch.org published a piece by Phil Gasper called "Ronald Reagan, 1911-2004: Goodbye and Good Riddance."

"Ronald Reagan has finally died at age 93," Gasper wrote. "Predictably, politicians from both major parties have issued gushing tributes to this venal and vicious man, who was happy to slash workers' wages, see families thrown onto the street, support sadistic death squads and bomb other countries, if this was in the interests of the American ruling class."

Blogger Steve Gilliard, in a piece reprinted by the European Bellaciao.org, had this to say: "The hagiography started as soon as they announced Reagan's death. How he ended the Cold War, how he was a decisive leader, all this nonsense about Reagan which is just ridiculous.

"The British have a tradition: When someone dies, their newspaper obituary tells the truth. Americans like to say something kind about the dead, no matter how scummy they were," wrote Gilliard. "Even Nixon got a halo in death, where only Hunter Thompson reminded people of who exactly he was and how the honors given him were, well, wrong. This deification of Reagan began as soon as Clinton took office. There has been pressure to name everything but rest stop toilets after the man."

DemocraticUnderground.com seemed to regret not having enough time to come up with a suitable obituary for Reagan.

"If you're looking for stories about Ronald Reagan in this week's edition, he 'ended communication' a little too close to our deadline. Tune in next week for coverage of the fallout of St. Ronald's passing."

Axisoflogic.com published a commentary by Greg Palast, who wrote: "You're not going to like this. You shouldn't speak ill of the dead. But in this case, someone's got to. Ronald Reagan was a conman. Reagan was a coward. Reagan was a killer."

And Joe Davidson, a columnist for BET.com, the website of Black Entertainment Television, wrote: "It's customary to say good things about the dead. Ronald Reagan appointed the first woman to the Supreme Court. He signed legislation for a national holiday honoring Martin Luther King. He thawed relations with the Soviet Union and signed a nuclear weapons treaty. He was warm and amiable and had a good sense of humor. He liked horses.

"Now let's talk about what he did to black people."

Davidson went on to claim that "after taking office in 1981, Reagan began a sustained attack on the government's civil rights apparatus, opened an assault on affirmative action and social welfare programs, embraced the white racist leaders of then-apartheid South Africa and waged war on a tiny, Black Caribbean nation. So thorough was Reagan's attack on programs of importance to African Americans, that the Citizens Commission on Civil Rights, an organization formed in the wake of Reagan’s attempt to neuter the official U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, said he caused 'an across-the-board breakdown in the machinery constructed by six previous administrations to protect civil rights.'

"During his two terms in office, Reagan captured, solidified and came to personify America's move to the political right," he wrote. "His greatest legacy is as leader of that swing in the American political spectrum. That shift made 'liberal' a dirty word and Democrats cower. What had been conservative became moderate. What was moderate was pushed to the left wing. The shift was so pronounced and profound that black America giddily embraced Bill Clinton despite his promotion of programs, criminal justice and welfare policies in particular, that would have been called racist and reactionary under Reagan."

Link: here (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38811)

[DaveIsKing]

FACT: Crime rate is higher among minorities.
FACT: Blacks commit sixteen times more attacks on Whites than reverse.
FACT: Whites made Blacks slaves in the 1800s.
FACT: Muslims attacked Spain in the 1500s.
FACT: Jews wiped out the Middianites in the Old Testament times, and raped their women.
FACT: Hitler killed millions of Jews.
FACT: Stalin killed millions of Russians.
FACT: Liberals support partial-birth abortion killing millions are fully-developed babies.
FACT: Africans have tortured and sold slaves long before the Europeans came to their continent.
FACT: Europeans invented almost every form of usable technology.
FACT: Slavery, torture and genocide has been prevalent in EVERY generation and EVERY culture.
FACT: White American Males ended slavery.
FACT: Abraham Lincoln helped to FREE the slaves.
FACT: European Nations and America fought for FOREIGN SLAVES' rights.
FACT: NO foreign Third World nation has ever fought for FOREIGN EUROPEAN rights!
FACT: Liberals hate FACTS.

[Ally_Kat]

the man isn't even cold yet in his grave

*sigh*

I hate Hillary with a passion, but when she goes I'll at least have the decency to keep quiet for a few days.

[lucky wilbury]

it's amazing that the only people who don't like reagan are communists and terrorists.

[JCOOK]

HEY STUPID WHERE DID LEARN YOUR HISTORY, IRAN WAS SO FUCKING SCARED OF WHAT REAGAN WOULD DO THATS' WHY THEY RELEASED THE HOSTAGES. YOU COMMIE BASTARDS LOVE TO DO NOTHING BUT KNOCK THE COUNTRY YOU LIVE IN WHICH IS YOUR
GOD "I KNOW YOU HATE THAT TERM" GIVEN RIGHT. UNTIL YOU HAVE TAKEN A BULLETT FOR THIS FREEDOM WE HAVE WHY DONT' YOU GO SUCK A RATS' ASS

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing

FACT: Whites made Blacks slaves in the 1800s.


Blacks helped make their race slaves, too. The majority of those sold as slaves were sent by tribes within the Africa because they had been convicted of a crime. Such a sentence was deemed worse than death.

[lucky wilbury]

who loves Reagan? America loves reagan

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Blacks helped make their race slaves, too. The majority of those sold as slaves were sent by tribes within the Africa because they had been convicted of a crime. Such a sentence was deemed worse than death.

I already mentioned that. Read it again. :D

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
But wait! There's more!

[B] "As president, Ronald Reagan was a mediocrity. He has left no legacy. He did not change the world in any significantly good way.

Damn, I guess those Russians are still Soviets and they still own half of Europe. Man, have they got the wool pulled over our eyes.

I guess they have invisible guards standing beside the invisible Berlin Wall. Waiting for invisible people to cross over from Communist East Germany to Democratic West Germany.

Hey FORD, here's another conspiracy train you can hobo.

[FORD]

I've been holding back my criticism of Reagan out of respect for the Presidency, if not for the man himself. After all, at least he was elected. Twice even, and I'm still trying to figure that one out.

But let's face it, the Reagan myth is mostly bullshit. Reagan wasn't that popular at the end of his term. His 49 state landslide in 84 was more to do with the fact that Mondale bored the shit out of everyone than anything about Reagan himself. I voted for Mondale, but I knew he wouldn't win :(

Not to mention the sexist "Democrats" who voted against him just for having Ferrarro on the ticket.

Reagan lowered the bar to the point where Presidential candidates no longer had to be actually qualified for the job. And that set the stage for the godawful mess we're in right now.

And for that alone, the myth cannot be allowed to stand.

[JCOOK]

THERE IS STILL A LOT OF SLAVERY IN AFRICAN COUNTRIES TODAY.
BUT I GUESS THATS O.K. SINCE WHITEY ISN'T DOING THE BUYING OR SELLING.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
I already mentioned that. Read it again. :D

ack, sorry. I'm not quite myself today. Sorry hun, I musta skipped that line.

[John Ashcroft]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
the man isn't even cold yet in his grave

*sigh*

I hate Hillary with a passion, but when she goes I'll at least have the decency to keep quiet for a few days.

You've got it darlin' That's the point of me posting this garbage here. These assholes are so ate up with hate, that they can't even be decent for more than a day or two. They are so driven by the reaquisition of their power that they are literally blind to everything else. They don't even realize that it's behavior like this that's driving voters away from their ideology in droves.

Really now, you tell me what normal American will listen to shit like this about a person, not just an popular ex-President mind you, and not be turned off. Way to bring people around to your side of the aisle you silly fucking liberal clowns!

Last I checked, you're losing voters and elections, not gaining them... Do you really believe that behavior like this is going to sway voters to your side??? Hell, look at Air America for the answer.

[FORD]

Originally posted by JCOOK
HEY STUPID WHERE DID LEARN YOUR HISTORY, IRAN WAS SO FUCKING SCARED OF WHAT REAGAN WOULD DO THATS' WHY THEY RELEASED THE HOSTAGES. YOU COMMIE BASTARDS LOVE TO DO NOTHING BUT KNOCK THE COUNTRY YOU LIVE IN WHICH IS YOUR
GOD "I KNOW YOU HATE THAT TERM" GIVEN RIGHT. UNTIL YOU HAVE TAKEN A BULLETT FOR THIS FREEDOM WE HAVE WHY DONT' YOU GO SUCK A RATS' ASS

You're a fucking idiot. The Iranians were going to release the hostages in October 1980. George Bush Sr met with Iranian leaders in Paris and got them to extend the "hostage crisis" until after the election, with the promise of weapons deals, should Reagan/Bush win the election. The deal became known as "October Surprise" and it set the stage for the ILLEGAL AND TREASONOUS Iran Contra scandal that followed.

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by JCOOK
THERE IS STILL A LOT OF SLAVERY IN AFRICAN COUNTRIES TODAY.
BUT I GUESS THATS O.K. SINCE WHITEY ISN'T DOING THE BUYING OR SELLING.

Libbies have a tendency to OVERLOOK certain things. If it doesn't BENEFIT their AGENDA.

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by FORD
Reagan wasn't that popular at the end of his term.

68% approval rating. the highest EVER




Originally posted by FORD
His 49 state landslide in 84 was more to do with the fact that Mondale bored the shit out of everyone than anything about Reagan himself. I voted for Mondale, but I knew he wouldn't win :(

you voted for mondale? :rofl:

[DaveIsKing]

Originally posted by FORD
You're a fucking idiot. The Iranians were going to release the hostages in October 1980. George Bush Sr met with Iranian leaders in Paris and got them to extend the "hostage crisis" until after the election, with the promise of weapons deals, should Reagan/Bush win the election. The deal became known as "October Surprise" and it set the stage for the ILLEGAL AND TREASONOUS Iran Contra scandal that followed.

WOW! Yet ANOTHER BUSH CONSPIRACY!!!

Hey, FORD, I bet that Dubya flew those planes himself into the WTC.

:rolleyes:

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by FORD
You're a fucking idiot. The Iranians were going to release the hostages in October 1980. George Bush Sr met with Iranian leaders in Paris and got them to extend the "hostage crisis" until after the election, with the promise of weapons deals, should Reagan/Bush win the election. The deal became known as "October Surprise" and it set the stage for the ILLEGAL AND TREASONOUS Iran Contra scandal that followed.

actally ford your the fucking idiot. iran contra started in 1983 and had NOTHING to do with the iranian hostage crisis. it had to do with the kidnappings in lebanon of people like cia station chief buckley and journalist terry anderson amoung others. go ahead look it up

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
WOW! Yet ANOTHER BUSH CONSPIRACY!!!

Hey, FORD, I bet that Dubya flew those planes himself into the WTC.

:rolleyes:

according to ford those were missles at the wtc and the buildings were brought down by a controlled demolition

[FORD]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
WOW! Yet ANOTHER BUSH CONSPIRACY!!!

Hey, FORD, I bet that Dubya flew those planes himself into the WTC.

:rolleyes:

He claims to be a pilot, so he'd be on the top of my suspect list. Except he was too busy using children as "human shields" in Florida.

[DaveIsKing]

Oh Brother...

FORD, I cannot dislike you.

Because I find that you are one of my favorite forms of HUMOR and ENTERTAINMENT.

I love ya!

:D

[FORD]

Originally posted by lucky wilbury
according to ford those were missles at the wtc and the buildings were brought down by a controlled demolition

I never actually endorsed the missile theory.

[lucky wilbury]

fuck it i looked it up for you:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/target/etc/cron.html

March 16, 1984 CIA Station Chief William Buckley kidnapped

Buckley was the fourth person to be kidnapped by militant Islamic extremists in Lebanon. The first American hostage, American University of Beirut President David Dodge, had been kidnapped in July 1982. Eventually, 30 Westerners would be kidnapped during the 10-year-long Lebanese hostage-taking crisis (1982-1992).

Americans who were kidnapped included journalist Terry Anderson, American University of Beirut librarian Peter Kilburn, and Benjamin Weir, a Presbyterian minister. While some of the prisoners lived through captivity -- Anderson spent the longest time as a hostage, 2,454 days -- some, including Buckley, died in captivity or were killed by their kidnappers.

U.S. officials believed that the Iranian-backed Hezbollah was behind most of the kidnappings and the Reagan administration devised a covert plan. Iran was desperately running out of military supplies in its war with Iraq, but Congress had banned the sale of American arms to countries like Iran that sponsored terrorism. Reagan was advised that a bargain could be struck -- secret arms sales to Iran, hostages back to the U.S. The plan, when it was revealed to the public, was decried as a failure and anathema to the U.S. policy of refusing to negotiate with terrorists.

In August 1985, the first consignment of arms to Iran was sent -- 100 anti-tank missiles provided by Israel; another 408 were sent the following month. As a result of the deal, American hostage Benjamin Weir was released from captivity; he had been imprisoned for 495 days. Only two other hostages were released as a result of the arms-for-hostages deal: in July 1986, Martin Jenco, a Catholic priest, was released; and the administrator of the American University of Beirut's medical school, David Jacobson, was released in November 1986.

Since the funds from the arms sales to Iran were secretly, and illegally, funneled to the U.S.-backed Contras fighting to overthrow the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua, the infamous episode became known as the "Iran-Contra affair." (See the "Final Report of the Independent Counsel for Iran/Contra Matters.)

[FORD]

The fact remians that the BCE, under Reagan, did in fact make treasonous deals with sworn enemies of the USA, while claiming that they "would not negotiate with terrorists"

[VanJay011379]

Originally posted by FORD
After all, at least he was elected. Twice even, and I'm still trying to figure that one out.


You work on that while I work on Clinton.


Originally posted by FORD

Reagan lowered the bar to the point where Presidential candidates no longer had to be actually qualified for the job. And that set the stage for the godawful mess we're in right now.


Clinton just cleaned up every mess didn't he (no pun intended).

[John Ashcroft]

Originally posted by FORD
You're a fucking idiot. The Iranians were going to release the hostages in October 1980. George Bush Sr met with Iranian leaders in Paris and got them to extend the "hostage crisis" until after the election, with the promise of weapons deals, should Reagan/Bush win the election. The deal became known as "October Surprise" and it set the stage for the ILLEGAL AND TREASONOUS Iran Contra scandal that followed.

You're too much Ford! I love it!

Ford: "Your a fucking idiot, because wacky conspiracy theory X, Y, and of course Z, cover this situation in great detail!"

Man, you're too much! :D

[lucky wilbury]

Originally posted by FORD
The fact remians that the BCE, under Reagan, did in fact make treasonous deals with sworn enemies of the USA, while claiming that they "would not negotiate with terrorists"

actaully to not try get back a station chief would have been treasonous considering he would be the one who could id all operatives covert and non covert operatives putting their lives, the lives of their contacts and any operations under way in risk. it's also ironic that the missles that were sold were pretty crappy,the russian suppklied ones were better, and those missles were then used againist iraq. see it's the circle of life.

[Angel]

Originally posted by FORD
You're a fucking idiot. The Iranians were going to release the hostages in October 1980. George Bush Sr met with Iranian leaders in Paris and got them to extend the "hostage crisis" until after the election, with the promise of weapons deals, should Reagan/Bush win the election. The deal became known as "October Surprise" and it set the stage for the ILLEGAL AND TREASONOUS Iran Contra scandal that followed.

No mention of the Canadians aid in rescuing hostages? Why am I not surprised? ;) Or am I thinking of a DIFFERENT Iran hostage situation?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Angel
No mention of the Canadians aid in rescuing hostages? Why am I not surprised? ;) Or am I thinking of a DIFFERENT Iran hostage situation?

The Canadian assistance was proof that Carter would have had the situation resolved without the BCE's interference. Wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that Poppy or one of his CIA operatives sabotaged the Canadian mission.

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

the question isnt who loves reagan, its who doesnt. that would yield a much quicker answer

[Viking]

Liberals have become Americans In Name Only. They're philosophical illegal aliens in their own country of birth. You could almost pity the poor bastards, if they weren't such a menace to individual liberty and a republican form of government.

[FORD]

Liberals aren't the ones arming terrorists who call this country "The Great Satan".

Liberals aren't the ones getting 900 Americans and thousands of Iraqi's slaughtered as a favor to the oil companies and the Likud party of Israel (another foreign terrorist organization itself)

Liberals aren't the ones sitting around watching FAUX News while these unelected pieces of shit wipe their asses with the Constitution.

[John Ashcroft]

So just what do liberals admire about America?

It's been a long, long time since I've heard any of them do anything but whine and complain.

[FORD]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
So just what do liberals admire about America?

It's been a long, long time since I've heard any of them do anything but whine and complain.

In the words of a great President.....

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

- President John Fitzgerald Kennedy

[John Ashcroft]

Amazingly telling that you had to go back about 40 years to get a response.

[rustoffa]

It's pretty dynamic down south here. Most of the old Dem stereotypes are associated with right-wing goose-stepping nowadays. Wade through the red clay irony.

[FORD]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Amazingly telling that you had to go back about 40 years to get a response.

Nah, I just thought the quote fit. I guess I could have looked for a Jimmy Carter quote as well. But Clinton was a conservative, so that let's him out.

[madraoul]

I'm proud of my label as a liberal. It's you neo-cons that need the anger management. Hell, you have the Presidency, both houses of Congress, the Supreme Court, and you have fixed it where all of the televised media is under your control. Why are you not frickin' dancing in the streets?

[John Ashcroft]

Uhhhhh... That's kinda the point. You don't hear pessimism from the right.

Oh, and I'll agree with you on both houses of Congress, the White House, and a majority of Governorships, but the media??? Come on son, get off the crack before its too late.

[madraoul]

No pessimism, just venom spewing from the neo-cons.

And yes, the last time I checked you do have the Supreme Court and pretty much all of the media is wrapped up under your nice corporate bow. Hell, just let an MTV jock in the White House and they will uncover the graft and incompetence of this current administration.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by madraoul
No pessimism, just venom spewing from the neo-cons.

And yes, the last time I checked you do have the Supreme Court and pretty much all of the media is wrapped up under your nice corporate bow. Hell, just let an MTV jock in the White House and they will uncover the graft and incompetence of this current administration.

And do you work in the media/Are you a journalist? I didn't think so...

[Lqskdiver]

Originally posted by FORD
I've been holding back my criticism of Reagan out of respect for the Presidency, if not for the man himself. After all, at least he was elected. Twice even, and I'm still trying to figure that one out.

But let's face it, the Reagan myth is mostly bullshit. Reagan wasn't that popular at the end of his term. His 49 state landslide in 84 was more to do with the fact that Mondale bored the shit out of everyone than anything about Reagan himself. I voted for Mondale, but I knew he wouldn't win :(

Not to mention the sexist "Democrats" who voted against him just for having Ferrarro on the ticket.

Reagan lowered the bar to the point where Presidential candidates no longer had to be actually qualified for the job. And that set the stage for the godawful mess we're in right now.

And for that alone, the myth cannot be allowed to stand.



The myth will and does stand.

It chaps all libs hides that this man was held in such high esteem. Is it our own party that is doing the stroking? Sure...
But notice that the decent thing to do is to not talk ill, no matter what the opinions. Anyone with some common decency will not speak ill of the dead. Yet, there are others that prefer to voice their minds regardless of the hurtful meaning.

Will it offend the dead? I believe in karma. Everything comes around. And you have to remember, we are all a going to die. How we'll be remembered is a testament to our so called legacy.

[Warham]

Kennedy? A great president?

[steve]

Originally posted by FORD
You're a fucking idiot. The Iranians were going to release the hostages in October 1980. George Bush Sr met with Iranian leaders in Paris and got them to extend the "hostage crisis" until after the election, with the promise of weapons deals, should Reagan/Bush win the election. The deal became known as "October Surprise" and it set the stage for the ILLEGAL AND TREASONOUS Iran Contra scandal that followed.

Which leads to the fact that the Reagan administration armed both sides of a war (Iran/Iraq - the bloodiest of the 80s - with MILLIONS DYING on both sides).

If it were a Hollywood movie, the United States would have looked like the bad guys. But because Reagan had a smily persona and talked tough on Communism, people thought he was great.

It's the Rambo problem...

You kill someone for your country, for God or Allah, in the name of freedom, or arm both sides of a war to "contain" a region of the world far, far away and you're given a medal or a Presidential burial.

You kill man on the streets and you get the chair.

In a world like that, arguably totally unbound by ethical standards, it's no wonder why people go insane.

It's an insane world.

Peter Singer is right - humanity has their heads burried in the ground when it comes to right and wrong.

It's weird, we even have some pretty damn good guidelines - documents like the declaration of Independence and such, but we choose to look so fondly on a man who...at best...spoke out against one wrong (the dictatorships of Russia and Eastern Europe) but committed MANY ATROCITIES HIMSELF.

[Lqskdiver]

Unlike the atrocities commited by Saddam, yet some prefer he stayed in power rather than our current president.

[DaveIsKing]

One more thing... I just couldn't help but to laugh to myself when I went back and read this:

"I remember as a student in Berkeley the words screeching out of the bullhorn, "The Governor of the State of California, Ronald Reagan, hereby orders this demonstration to disperse" … and then came the teargas and the truncheons. And all the while, that fang-hiding grin from the Gipper"


Hey, PALAST, I guess that sure was some damn good tear gas! All these years later and you are still crying like a baby!