Holy Shit! Atheists in the US know more about religion than believers do???

[FORD]

The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com
In US, atheists know religion better than believers. Is that bad?

A new study shows that many devout Americans know less about religion than do atheists. To some observers, it suggests a shallowness of faith. To others, it is evidence that Americans know the spirit better than the letter of religion.

By G. Jeffrey MacDonald, Correspondent
posted September 28, 2010 at 8: 09 pm EDT

For a highly religious people, Americans have plenty of room to improve their knowledge of religion, according to a new survey that’s stirring debate about the health of faith in America.

The US Religious Knowledge Survey, released Tuesday from the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, found atheists and agnostics know more basic facts about the Bible than either Protestants or Catholics. Among the other findings:

• 57 percent of Protestants can name the Bible’s four gospels.

• 55 percent of Catholics know their tradition teaches that sacramental bread and wine become Christ’s body and blood.

• 15 percent of white evangelicals know Jonathan Edwards participated in the First Great Awakening.

Take Pew's religious quiz: Are you smarter than an atheist? (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0928/Are-you-smarter-than-an-atheist-A-religious-quiz/When-does-the-Jewish-Sabbath-begin)

Based on a May-June survey of more than 3,400 American adults, these findings point to a dearth of religious knowledge in a country where nearly 6 in 10 adults say religion is “very important” in their lives.

“If you can’t even name the four books that tell us about Jesus' teachings and way of life, then you’re in big trouble,” said Fuller Seminary President Richard Mouw. “You don’t know who Jesus is if you don’t even know Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.”

Not all Christian educators are worried, however. Wilhelmina Jenkins, an Atlanta physicist, says people are hungry for knowledge of history and other religions in the adult Bible study class she leads at the Episcopal Church of the Incarnation in Atlanta. She says facts are helpful, but “academic” questions – such as those asked in the Pew survey – don’t reveal much about a person’s understanding of his/her faith tradition.

“I don’t think this survey got to the heart of what most people know about their own religious experience,” Ms. Jenkins said. “It was a very academic view of religion. But If you asked people, ‘What’s the fundamental bottom line in Christianity?’ Most people would tell you, ‘Jesus said to love God and love your neighbor.’ I don’t think most people would have any trouble knowing that.”

This Pew survey comes as Americans consider questions of religious identity and religious freedom in light of a proposed mosque near ground zero in Manhattan. Mr. Mouw argues that meaningful dialogue between Christians and Muslims will prove elusive, despite good intentions, unless people come to master the basics of their own faith traditions – and become at least familiar with the other’s.

“Terminal niceness will not get us through this,” said Mouw, author of "Uncommon Decency: Christian Civility in an Uncivil World." “We need to deal with what’s in the books.”

Other scholars, however, aren’t convinced that knowledge of religious traditions is essential to building interfaith bridges. While such information is helpful, it’s not as key a factor in fostering tolerant views as having a close personal connection with someone of a different faith, according to David Campbell, co-author of "American Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us."

Whatever the implications, the survey highlights how Americans often don’t feel tightly bound by one religious tradition or another as they carve out their own belief systems. While Mouw sees this giving rise to “vague spirituality,” others fear that faith practitioners might lose respect if lack of knowledge comes to be seen as lack of seriousness about religion.

“Your knowledge of something tells you how seriously you take it,” said Alan Wolfe, director of the Boisi Center for Religion and American Public Life at Boston College. “If a person is devout, then I ought to respect that devotion and not mock it, to take it seriously. But if the knowledge base of that devotion is as shallow as it seems, then is the respect earned?”

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2010/0928/In-US-atheists-know-religion-better-than-believers.-Is-that-bad

[FORD]

For the record, I got 31 out of 32 on the quiz. It was the only one I had to guess on, and unfortunately guessed wrong.

[Anonymous]

Pffft, huge discovery.

Atheists ask "why", believers just accept it. Furthermore, believers believe that it's enough to go to church & just sit there not listening to anything. Just saying "I'm a believer" is enough to get them into the kingdom of their fantasy.

Since when do sheep learn? They just follow.

Cheers! :bottle:

[ashstralia]

29/32
joseph smith... dum dum dum dum dum. i can never unsee that south park ep

[knuckleboner]

that's bullshit.

catholics technically get credit so long as their answers agree with the pope's answers...

[Nickdfresh]

26.5/32...

[Little Texan]

28/32

[Little Texan]

29/32
joseph smith... dum dum dum dum dum. i can never unsee that south park ep

I learned alot about Mormonism from that episode, believe it or not.

[Jesus Christ]

Verily, My children it is as I hath said here at this board many times. There are many who claim to be My disciples who do not even knoweth My teachings. :(

[ashstralia]

Verily, My children it is as I hath said here at this board many times. :(

40,000 times soon.
:umm:

[ELVIS]

So, what is this random comparative religion trivia quiz supposed to prove ??

[binnie]

Full marks.

Do I get to go to heaven now?

Do they have Black Sabbath records in heaven?

[ELVIS]

No and probably not...

[Nitro Express]

Religion is a family/social phenomena. I went to church as a kid because I was forced to go and still gave the illusion I was still active in the family faith because coming out and saying it was bullshit would have thrown a huge turd into the family punchbowl. Plus, a lot of people get jobs and perks because they are members in a certain faith. You would be amazed how many rich kids stay active because they don't want to be cut off from daddy's money. I've seen it all and to be frank, most people don't belong to any religion because they actually believe in it. It's for social reasons.

As far as atheists go, they take more flack than someone who belongs to a religion and they probably had to make the choice to leave the religion they were raised in so they thought deeply about what they were doing.

[binnie]

No and probably not...

Just Slayer then.....

[FORD]

Full marks.

Do I get to go to heaven now?

Do they have Black Sabbath records in heaven?

Probably only "After Forever" :biggrin:

[Little Texan]

This is a bit off topic, but since we're on the subject of religion, here's a question that has been nagging at me for a while: How is one supposed to burn in hell and feel anything without a physical body?

[PETE'S BROTHER]

must be their "lack of faith" that transmits the heat to their "soul":umm:

[Nickdfresh]

This is a bit off topic, but since we're on the subject of religion, here's a question that has been nagging at me for a while: How is one supposed to burn in hell and feel anything without a physical body?

Especially when, IIRC, there's no actual description of a 'fire-and-brimstone' hell in the Bible...

[lesfunk]

25/32 I'm not as dumb as I thought :)

[Grant]

29/32.

Some of those correct answers were provided by quotes I remember from Ned Flanders and Apu Nahasapeemapetilon. I knew all those years of religiously watching The Simpsons would eventually pay off. :baaa:

[FORD]

Especially when, IIRC, there's no actual description of a 'fire-and-brimstone' hell in the Bible...

Actually, Jesus mentions Hell specifically as a firey place of torment in Luke 16



19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

[Seshmeister]

This is a bit off topic, but since we're on the subject of religion, here's a question that has been nagging at me for a while: How is one supposed to burn in hell and feel anything without a physical body?

You are on the right lines with that thought.

If you take it a little further to exist you have to be able to think, we are at our most basic level information processing devices.

In order to think or function on any level requires work. The laws of thermodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics) mean that in order to work you have to have energy. You can't create energy from nothing, we do it by processing food. When we die we cannot do work.

In other words at the most fundamental level without breaking the most basic laws of physics there can be no afterlife. Even without our bodies an ethereal spirit or soul would still need to do work to generate energy in order to process information and it can't do this without substance.

Which is pretty disappointing.

[ashstralia]

Do they have Black Sabbath records in heaven?

so far only the ronnie james dio ones.

[ELVIS]

In other words at the most fundamental level without breaking the most basic laws of physics there can be no afterlife. Even without our bodies an ethereal spirit or soul would still need to do work to generate energy in order to process information and it can't do this without substance.

So, the idea of a living spirit or soul, to you is totally preposterous, right ??

[Seshmeister]

I don't know about preposterous but it's highly unlikely.

You are hoping for something that would break the fundamental laws of the universe, that there is no evidence for and that doesn't really stand up to examination.

For example who get's your living spirit, every lifeform on the planet? If not then at what point did these souls appear, when mammals evolved? When we stood upright? When we developed language?

You're probably over halfway through your life now. If it were me I would worry a lot about spending so much of your free time on this magical belief thing given that given life is so short and that's all there probably is.

Of course you could say the exact same thing about posting on this website and you have already bred which seems to be the only point in any of this.

[Seshmeister]

Ooof haven't had a double post for a while.

The gods must be angry with me...

[ELVIS]

If not then at what point did these souls appear, when mammals evolved? When we stood upright? When we developed language?



My guess would be with Adam...

[PETE'S BROTHER]

My guess would be with Adam...

and yet, just a guess:baaa:

[bueno bob]

Not surprising to read it at all. Those who disbelieve are almost always more educated about the belief system and its pillars those those who do. Those who do just have to revel in "faith" and don't need anything, you know, REAL to base it on, so by default, most religious people are inevitably more ignorant about it than those who disbelieve it.

[Seshmeister]

My guess would be with Adam...

You believe the talking snake story literally?

[kwame k]

29 right!!!!!!!

[Nickdfresh]

Actually, Jesus mentions Hell specifically as a firey place of torment in Luke 16

A rather disappointingly sparse description of Hell as compared to the Medieval bullshit...

The "flames" could represent the sun in the desert to the exposed executed for example...

[Nickdfresh]

You are on the right lines with that thought.

If you take it a little further to exist you have to be able to think, we are at our most basic level information processing devices.

In order to think or function on any level requires work. The laws of thermodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics) mean that in order to work you have to have energy. You can't create energy from nothing, we do it by processing food. When we die we cannot do work.

In other words at the most fundamental level without breaking the most basic laws of physics there can be no afterlife. Even without our bodies an ethereal spirit or soul would still need to do work to generate energy in order to process information and it can't do this without substance.

Which is pretty disappointing.

But what about Quantum Physics and the hypothesized "alternate realities" and quarks? :)

[Jesus Christ]

A rather disappointingly sparse description of Hell as compared to the Medieval bullshit...

The "flames" could represent the sun in the desert to the exposed executed for example...

No, it was the real Hell I was talking about, Nicodemus. I didn't want too give to great of a description, as I didn't want to do Satan's advertising for him.

And yes, the desert is hot. But if the rich man had been merely stuck out in the desert, then Abraham and Lazarus could have gone to him and given him a drink of water, could they not?

But where this man was, there is no cold water. Only warm light beer and diet soda. Er, or so Lucifer hath told Me.

[ELVIS]

You believe the talking snake story literally?

No...

[Satan]

Hey, I rocked that snakeskin suit, damn it! http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

[Nickdfresh]

No, it was the real Hell I was talking about, Nicodemus. I didn't want too give to great of a description, as I didn't want to do Satan's advertising for him.

And yes, the desert is hot. But if the rich man had been merely stuck out in the desert, then Abraham and Lazarus could have gone to him and given him a drink of water, could they not?

But where this man was, there is no cold water. Only warm light beer and diet soda. Er, or so Lucifer hath told Me.

But you didn't actually write all that...

[Seshmeister]

But what about Quantum Physics and the hypothesized "alternate realities" and quarks? :)

The absolute tip of the fingernails I really fucking hope so argument?

I guess so.

Chances are though we should really concentrate on making the best of this brief gift.

[Nickdfresh]

The absolute tip of the fingernails I really fucking hope so argument?

Not really, I'm the guy that hopes there is no afterlife since it seems rather disturbing and sketchy as opposed to eternal rest for the wicked...


I guess so.

Chances are though we should really concentrate on making the best of this brief gift.

I couldn't agree more! Even if one believes in a heaven or what-the-fuck-ever, we should always make existence the best it can be--the abursdism and randomness notwithstanding...

[hambon4lif]

Chances are though we should really concentrate on making the best of this brief gift.The truest thing you will ever hear...online, in real life, or anywhere else.

[Seshmeister]

Here's a thought.

Imagine that the traditional religions of Christianity, Islam, Judaism and whatever were all wrong.

Imagine instead when you died you had to go to a huge stadium, a really fuck off stadium. One that could hold 30 million people.

It's massive.

150 times bigger than any other stadia in the world.

You walk up to the microphone in the middle of it.

And then have to explain to the 30 000 000 other possible people when your dad fired his muck into your mother how you made the best of the opportunity.

Now there is a fucking religion.

It's a fucking great religion, but you can't have it because most people follow the childish rants of a few bronze age idiots and they had no idea that there were 30 million sperm in an ejaculate - they knew fuck all about anything.

[Seshmeister]

It's extraordinary sometimes to read what you come up with in the early hours of the morning, post pub.

I'm not the messiah I'm a very naughty boy...

[Seshmeister]

http://www.vegalleries.com/hbopc/0163hair04.jpg

"Mr Beasly Mr Beasly, he says he has been thanked 1,441 Times in 999 Posts and wants to see if it fucks up the screen when you add another digit..."

[ashstralia]

Here's a thought.

Imagine that the traditional religions of Christianity, Islam, Judaism and whatever were all wrong.

Imagine instead when you died you had to go to a huge stadium, a really fuck off stadium. One that could hold 30 million people.

It's massive.

150 times bigger than any other stadia in the world.

You walk up to the microphone in the middle of it.

And then have to explain to the 30 000 000 other possible people when your dad fired his muck into your mother how you made the best of the opportunity.

Now there is a fucking religion.

It's a fucking great religion, but you can't have it because most people follow the childish rants of a few bronze age idiots and they had no idea that there were 30 million sperm in an ejaculate - they knew fuck all about anything.

whoa, my brain hurts. that is a magnificent concept, sessionmaster.

whooaaa

[ELVIS]

And then have to explain to the 30 000 000 other possible people when your dad fired his muck into your mother how you made the best of the opportunity.



Ok, let's hear it...

Go!

[bueno bob]

I don't know. On a personal level, I don't really "get" atheists any more than I do the wholly religious. Realistically, it's equally as stupid to believe that science has answered "everything" and proven that there is no afterlife or higher intelligence as it is to believe that all of the answers to the universe are wrapped up in some 2000 year old collection of fan fiction about one of numerous competing magicians.

Agnosticism is really the only intelligent, educated choice to make. That way you have room to err on both sides. Anybody telling you otherwise, and then CONVINCING you otherwise, is feeding your head full of shit and you're obviously stupid enough to let them, which makes you an extemely disinteresting person and a less than sensible human being.

Were I God, I'd want very little to do with either the extremely religious or the complete disbeliever. What boring people they are.

[Warham]

Doesn't surprise me in the least. Many athiests are searching for the truth and are willing to research a variety of religions in that pursuit. It gives them a good base of knowledge. On the other hand, many are too smart for their own good, which leads them to becoming more and more closeminded to future revelations.

[Seshmeister]

Ok, let's hear it...

Go!

The fact I can't is exactly my point.

[Seshmeister]

I don't know. On a personal level, I don't really "get" atheists any more than I do the wholly religious. Realistically, it's equally as stupid to believe that science has answered "everything" and proven that there is no afterlife or higher intelligence as it is to believe that all of the answers to the universe are wrapped up in some 2000 year old collection of fan fiction about one of numerous competing magicians.

Agnosticism is really the only intelligent, educated choice to make. That way you have room to err on both sides. Anybody telling you otherwise, and then CONVINCING you otherwise, is feeding your head full of shit and you're obviously stupid enough to let them, which makes you an extemely disinteresting person and a less than sensible human being.

Were I God, I'd want very little to do with either the extremely religious or the complete disbeliever. What boring people they are.

Don't be part of the religious backlash backlash. :)

Even Dawkins describes himself as an agnostic.

For most people who are called athiest it's just a shorthand to say you don't believe in the popular institutional superstitions. The whole point of the scientific method is that you don't completely discount something you can't disprove and you can't disprove an indetectable invisible magic cloud daddy.

[ashstralia]

The whole point of the scientific method

mate, that would be measurability and repetition of the result.
i think the scientific community shoots itself in the foot sometimes, too.
e.g. string theory. they don't call it string fact. and no-ones written 'the string delusion'.

[Nitro Express]

29/32
joseph smith... dum dum dum dum dum. i can never unsee that south park ep

Yeah. South Park made fun of the Kinderhook plate incident. You can also look up the Book of Abraham screwup. Joseph mistranslated the Egyptian book of the dead and mistook the Anubis for Abraham and Isaac for the mummy on the enbalming bench. Old Joe thought the enbalming scene on the papyrus he bought with some mummies in Chicago was a sacrificial scene. Most of the key Mormon doctrine is based on his mistranslated butchery of a standard, common Egyptian funeral text. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[Seshmeister]

mate, that would be measurability and repetition of the result.
i think the scientific community shoots itself in the foot sometimes, too.
e.g. string theory. they don't call it string fact. and no-ones written 'the string delusion'.

Who says string theory isn't just a thought?

Quantum physics is used to make your cell phone work.

We're still waiting for the Jesus phone...

[kwame k]

Who says string theory isn't just a thought?

Quantum physics is used to make your cell phone work.

We're still waiting for the Jesus phone...

Nope......there's already a.....


jesus phone

A nickname for Apple's iPhone, so called because of the nearly religious fervor the phone has caused and the cult status it enjoys. Since it was dubbed the "Jesus phone" early on, articles about the phone occasionally include religious overtones such as "your prayers are answered, the Jesus phone is here" and the "second coming" referring to the second generation iPhone 3G. There is even a blog called iPhoneSavior.com, "The Cult of iPhone News and Satire."Link (http://computer.yourdictionary.com/jesus-phone)

[ELVIS]

I don't believe in the popular institutional superstitions...

[kwame k]

You don't believe in organized religion, dude?

[Satan]

I don't believe in the popular institutional superstitions...

Aren't you a Biblical literalist?

[ELVIS]

You don't believe in organized religion, dude?

organized how ??

[ELVIS]

Aren't you a Biblical literalist?

No...

For instance, I don't subscribe to the popular belief among some that the earth is 6000 years old...

That's beyond rediculous...

[kwame k]

organized how ??

Protestant, Catholic and etc!

[ELVIS]

Well, I attend a small non-denominational church that teaches the Bible with emphasis on Jesus and the New Testament...

It's organized in the sense that services are held promptly at 9AM on Sunday and 7PM on Wednesday

[Seshmeister]

9?????

That's just masochistic...

[ashstralia]

Who says string theory isn't just a thought?


agree, sesh.

what i meant was that some scientific THEORIES may as well be
on a par with religious doctrine, when it comes to believability.

[ELVIS]

What time do you get home from the pub on sunday morning ??

[Satan]

Not even God himself wakes up at 9 AM on Sunday. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about here.

[Seshmeister]

What time do you get home from the pub on sunday morning ??

Tuesday but even then I very rarely start talking to imaginary cloud daddy's... :)