Couple guitar questions.

[VanHalenFan5150]

I know these have probably been asked before, yadda yadda, whatever. I just wanted them fresh in my mind.

First. How can I correctly intonate a Strat style guitar with a fulcrum tremolo? I'm too lazy to look up instructional guides or whatever, I'm absolutely certain that there are knowledgeable men here who can teach me. Something with the string gauges or whatever they were. On my Kramer, if I use .9's or .10s the strings start to go out of tune after the 11th fret by about a quarter step... Does the string gauge affect any of this? And if so, what can I do?

Second. I plan to build a guitar out of the V body my dad gave me. It's made of poplar and I want to have some suggestions on pickups, bridges, nuts, tuners, etc. I'd like to have some options so I know what to look for.

Finally. What is a compound radius? I've heard about them. I know Jacksons are notorious for their compound radii. And they allow strings to be bent more than on a usual guitar...

[jhale667]

I know these have probably been asked before, yadda yadda, whatever. I just wanted them fresh in my mind.

First. How can I correctly intonate a Strat style guitar with a fulcrum tremolo? I'm too lazy to look up instructional guides or whatever, I'm absolutely certain that there are knowledgeable men here who can teach me. Something with the string gauges or whatever they were. On my Kramer, if I use .9's or .10s the strings start to go out of tune after the 11th fret by about a quarter step... Does the string gauge affect any of this? And if so, what can I do?

Your string gauge absolutely will influence your guitar's intonation should you change it, and even changing the same string gauge requires you to check it. An instructional video would be helpful just so you can see someone do it, but simply put, to set it you need to adjust the saddle position accordingly until the open string and 12th fret octave are dead on with your tuner. You're shortening/lengthening the string until it aligns properly for the string gauge/scale-length. See whether the 12th fret note is sharp or flat, the adjust the saddle accordingly.
Just remember when you're moving the saddles, moving them closer to the neck makes the note go sharp, moving it away, flat.


Second. I plan to build a guitar out of the V body my dad gave me. It's made of poplar and I want to have some suggestions on pickups, bridges, nuts, tuners, etc. I'd like to have some options so I know what to look for.

Depends on what kind of sound you're after pickup-wise. Are you going to put a trem on it or no? There's all kinds of great resources for parts like StewMac.com , Allparts, Warmoth, Floyd Upgrades, etc.


Finally. What is a compound radius? I've heard about them. I know Jacksons are notorious for their compound radii. And they allow strings to be bent more than on a usual guitar...

On a compound-radius neck (which I love, and actually prefer these days) the radius gradually flattens the higher you go up the neck. The Warmoth standard compound is 10-16", and it's very comfortable. It also allows lower action (I could conceivably get away with having mine lower than I like on my 3 Warmoth necks, but I don't like the action to be so low it's sloppy feeling), and 2 1/2 + step bends w/o the string fretting out...gotta love that. :baaa:

[Nitro Express]

If you are lazy and don't want to diddle with your bridge saddles, just crank it more. Distortion does wonders to mask all sorts of problems including bad playing.

[GAR]

Charvel-Jackson "compound radius" fingerboards mean on one end (at the nut) the radius is about the roundness of a 9 inch circle's cross-section on one end, but larger on the other either 16 or 24 inch. 9 inch was standard on Fenders up until the mid-80s and that's all you got, that's all they offered.

That's all I offer too, ladies. Email for my pics.. btw

The Metal Years creeped up, and Charvel offered completely flat fingerboards, traditional 9 inch, 16 inch and even 24 inch radius fingerboards.

They would mount the neck in a vertical jig, and push it across an ancient Oliver shaper with a three-headed custom cutter that would mill off the fingerboard to that exact radius.

This was initially pretty fucking dangerous because if while working at pushing the jig across the flying, exposed cutterheads you hit a knot or a tough section of birdseye maple, the jig could chatter or vibrate causing the cutter to grab it out of your hands and toss it and possibly you and your finger right into the wall.

Fender never did it that way, they had a custom-made spiral radius mill cutterhead in a special machine that chain-fed the neck into the little mill which had a sheetmetal shield.. trouble was you couldn't change the head to a different radius, so eventually when the 16 inch radius became the standard they built dedicated chainfeed mills to do only one dedicated radius.

Well, the fuckups at Charvel-Jackson couldn't keep the injury rate down with the shaper, and that was a problem so what they did was modify a Pacco edgesanding 8" belt sander with a cradle to feed a neck mounting jig slowly into the abrasive by "swinging" it into the grit. This worked really well, not thought out to well, because the shop mechanic was a barely-functional alcoholic and couldn't weld worth a shit.

So, one day the guy who had to operate this monstrosity cut the mis-welded ears off the cradle mount end, drilled holes and made it adjustable for the 3 most popular radiuses they were selling.

Shop mechanic :coughtimwilsondickheadcough: gets bent, criticizes the redesign and an arguement ensues which engaged everyone present.. they all look the thing over and somebody goes "gee, what if you left the 9inch bolt position in on one side, then put the other bolt in the 16inch side?" Keep in mind, this was still in the days the shop was making fake "vintage" Fenders for them guitar-show guys who had to have the correct-holes everything on every neck n bodies. They called the radius a "ten" in their brochures, but it was still just a sanded-down 9 inch, or a 9 slightly flattened by eye whoever did the fingerboard dots n frets..

So - obviously if you got two pivot points of a swing and one side is short, the others too long and in this case it would knock into the mounting arm of the swing which bolted to the sander frame. Well, that was easily adapted to by making individual swing assemblies for each radius and the rest is metal guitar history - if you sight down a Jackson neck from the nut, you'll see the radius at the fret tops on the low positions really curved, yet at the higher frets they flatten out, but it works out how?

To understand this phenomena look at a cone, or imagine a sugar ice cream cone: the rim is large and open where you push the scoop, but the bottom ends in a point. If you were to sight from the bottom to the rim you'd see a straight line but the curve that surrounds it tapers in a compounded way that graduates the curve from a large radius to the tinier one close to your eye.

The compound radius development is genius because it allows you chord-bashers to hold a tighter fisted curve where the neck is slim at the nut, but flatter at the other end where you like to bend the strings up.

Flatter fingerboards of course don't choke out, like they do on vintage-styled 9"inch radius fingerboards. Gibsons have always been 16" - they're great like that.. but it took Charvel Jackson to give the bolt-on crowd the more metal feature they deserved, the 16 inch radius Fender wasn't giving anybody (because they're not Gibson and blahblahblah) plus something never done before - the compound radius which mixed the best features of both manufacturers.. all because of a shop flexible to ask the simple question "fuck why not do this, if we just move this mounting pin down on one side and make the leg shorter."

btw not a true story I just made it up, or Googled it not sure had too much Barf Bridge 2-bucka-bottle merlot so fukkit

[GAR]

Nope, that's a lie, too. I'm working on a quart of Gin thats currently staining my wife-beater Tshirt grape because of the dye from the Robitussin bottles I've poured in there.

tjha'ts about right yeh

[VanHalenFan5150]

Gar. Shut the fuck up. I clearly said "knowledgeable" people, and I don't think you're either a knowledgeable person, or a person at all... But thanks for the help so far, Nitro and JHale. :D

[Seshmeister]

If you are lazy and don't want to diddle with your bridge saddles, just crank it more. Distortion does wonders to mask all sorts of problems including bad playing.

That is shocking advice but all too common...:)

[chefcraig]

That is shocking advice but all too common...:)

No kidding, considering the goof in Motley Crue has based his entire career around the principle.

[jhale667]

That is shocking advice but all too common...:)

True, and anyone who says something like that or when tuning says "close enough for rock-n-roll" should be beaten severely about the face and neck. ;)

[Nitro Express]

True, and anyone who says something like that or when tuning says "close enough for rock-n-roll" should be beaten severely about the face and neck. ;)

It's close enough for grunge.

[Nitro Express]

I just look at it as exotic tuning. Why follow the rules? Make your own rules and tune the pitch the way you fucking want or let the guitar tune itself. Just let the magic happen.

[jhale667]

It's close enough for grunge.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQdjtWgl9cXFpqcTfQWzJTLvA5Wvpoio HJ22xLlXnpo73sTO1g&t=1&usg=__DqjcSksJ1_X_zZ0lMzaXiZoGrJ8=

:lmao:

Sorry, never heard an out-of-tune guitar sound "magical"...

[GAR]

For those whose vocabulary was challenged in my previous explanation:

http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/images/necks/radius_profile2.gif

Figure it out.

[VanHalenFan5150]

I was not aware the Google King could challenge himself with his own vocabulary. :)

[GAR]

True, and anyone who says something like that or when tuning says "close enough for rock-n-roll" should be beaten severely about the face and neck. ;)

EXCUSE me - If you're going to plagiarize one of my oft-repeated pateneted cliche's, get it correct:

It is: "..Beaten about the head, neck and shoulders." But if it's a Birkenstock Bulldyke as topic of said beat-down, we throw in ".. and stomped upon under tread of foot" for good measure.

-------------------------------------

Alright, please continue...

[Diamondjimi]

All in favour of GARfail BANNED from Gear Street for good, Say "I".... :shiznit:


(Jay, can ya help us out here?) :biggrin:

[GAR]

Jay - don't make me file with teh Atty General for patent infringement.

I've tried to be cool here: you have my official license to use the cliche only in the instance of all 3 body parts "beaten about the head, neck and shoulders."

It is a gentlemanly insult from teh olden days of Fisticuffs and sir, you shall not disparage the un-genteel without the proper dereliction!

[jhale667]

http://www.sneeko.net/images/macros/Misc-FuckOff.jpg

Yeah, since I've been saying that since long before here, feel free to fuck off, for the sake of heads, faces and necks everywhere.

[GAR]

I'm stomping you under virtual tread of foot for your jolly unkind indifference.

[VanHalenFan5150]

Gar. You're like the lone antagonist of the Medal Of Honor games... one man against many foes... you go against all odds. And you get beaten. Plenty of times. But each time you get back up again and try to prove something. You're like the Karate Kid...

[GAR]

You've hurt my feelings. I'm telling Dad!

[Diamondjimi]

Ignorace is bliss, kid. GARfail is as ingnorant as they come.

Shit, he still hasn't figured out he's loathed on these boards.... :Loser:

[VanHalenFan5150]

Okay, so back on track, for bridges. I'm almost adamant on a Floyd Rose. But which model i'm unsure of. I have played the FR Special many times over. Licensed FRs are the worst... Have not tried the OFR but they are road tested and ready to take and give a beating so I might as well sacrifice some chump change to get the real thing... Who recommends the Schaller made in Germany model?

[GAR]

Schaller makes the Original Floyd Rose which one you use will depend on the nut width and fingerboard radius

To decide which to choose: there are only 7 models in 3 different finishes (black, chrome, gold) differing primarily by the nut width, and fingerboard radius at the nut.

So that boils it down between 21 possibilities..

[jhale667]

Okay, so back on track, for bridges. I'm almost adamant on a Floyd Rose. But which model i'm unsure of. I have played the FR Special many times over. Licensed FRs are the worst... Have not tried the OFR but they are road tested and ready to take and give a beating so I might as well sacrifice some chump change to get the real thing... Who recommends the Schaller made in Germany model?

MIG Floyds do indeed rule. All of mine are Schaller German R5 (1 3/4") Floyds, but on one neck I've stepped down to an R4 (1 11/16") nut for giggles.

The only "licensed" model I'd trust (and may try in the future) would be the Floyd Upgrades version:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/FU-Bridge-Trio-800.jpg

Plus you can pre-order it with all the block and hardware upgrades (current fave set-up is the Ti Big-Block and string inserts w/Stainless Steel hardware) I'd put on a MIG Floyd anyway...

:guitar:

[GAR]

All of mine are Schaller German R5 (1 3/4") Floyds, but on one neck I've stepped down to an R4 (1 11/16") nut ...


"because I cunt get the parts to line-up right." Take it to Eric in Valley Village, he'll fix it.

[VanHalenFan5150]

Nobody can fix you however, Gar... You're fucked up for life

[jhale667]

"because I cunt get the parts to line-up right." Take it to Eric in Valley Village, he'll fix it.

Yeah, actually I can and they do, dickhead. Eric's cool (unlike you), but not in need of his services, thanks.

Tried it because the ESP Lynch models come that way, but thanks for speculating...:fufu:

[GAR]

MIG Floyds do indeed rule. All of mine are Schaller German R5 (1 3/4") Floyds, but on one neck I've stepped down to an R4 (1 11/16") nut for giggles.

The only "licensed" model I'd trust (and may try in the future) would be the Floyd Upgrades version:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/FU-Bridge-Trio-800.jpg

Plus you can pre-order it with all the block and hardware upgrades (current fave set-up is the Ti Big-Block and string inserts w/Stainless Steel hardware) I'd put on a MIG Floyd anyway...

:guitar:

HEY I just noticed something - why is the pivot leg of the low-E string pivot-side missing?

He's trying to avoid the design trademark isn't he.. he just just pay the 15 bucks license fee because this makes it look Korean.

[ace diamond]

If you are lazy and don't want to diddle with your bridge saddles, just crank it more. Distortion does wonders to mask all sorts of problems including bad playing.
i'm a prime example of that statement.

[ace diamond]

all in favour of garfail banned from gear street for good, say "i".... :shiznit:


(jay, can ya help us out here?) :biggrin:
i, bloody, i!

[Diamondjimi]

Wow, GAR. Owned by Savicki and now Ace Diamond. Now you truely have no friends. Where's your 'ol pal Buttflap when ya need him, Eh?

[GAR]

Finally you two are on board to ban me, what took you so long!

WELCOME

[ace diamond]

Finally you two are on board to ban me, what took you so long!

WELCOME
for fuck sake, i was just taking the bloody piss!
having a laugh and all.

[ace diamond]

gar, this is what i was yapping aboot..........eh?

i, bloody, i!
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[Hardrock69]

An instructional video would be helpful just so you can see someone do it, but simply put, to set it you need to adjust the saddle position accordingly until the open string and 12th fret octave are dead on with your tuner. You're shortening/lengthening the string until it aligns properly for the string gauge/scale-length. See whether the 12th fret note is sharp or flat, the adjust the saddle accordingly.
Just remember when you're moving the saddles, moving them closer to the neck makes the note go sharp, moving it away, flat.


Something I learned in the late 70s was a piece of info from the Tom Wheeler guitar book. He said to fret the note at the 12th fret, and hit a harmonic on the string at the 12th fret, adjusting the bridge saddle until they are identical. Just my 2 cents. Always worked for me.

[indeedido]

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/SaddlesIntonation.jpg

[Hardrock69]

Cool! Visuals always help! :)

[kwame k]

Thanks, indeedido!

Good to have you back HR :beers8:

[indeedido]

I find myself forgetting how to set intonation from time to time, and the visual reference is always the best in taking confusion out.

[Hardrock69]

I find I have to look on this certain page of Tom Wheeler's Guitar Book. My dad bought it for me on my 17th birthday I think. 2nd Edition from the early 70s, lol. Has lotsa pics of primitive gear from the 60s, lol.

[VanHalenFan5150]

Thanks for all the help guys. Happy thanks giving.

[Hardrock69]

Same to you man! Rock on with yo mouth full! :D

[jhale667]

Happy Thanksgiving, guys. :baaa:

[indeedido]

+1000