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BigBadBrian
11-10-2010, 07:33 AM
In Curt Exchange, U.S. Faults Israel on Housing

WASHINGTON — President Obama’s criticism of new Israeli housing plans for East Jerusalem, and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s even sharper retort, have thrown the Middle East peace talks into jeopardy, with the dispute over Jewish settlements looming as a seemingly insuperable hurdle.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel this week urged a tougher line on Iran.
The Obama administration is struggling to restart direct negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians, which stalled last month after the expiration of a partial freeze on settlement construction in the West Bank. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton plans to meet Mr. Netanyahu in New York on Thursday, while Egypt sent two top officials to Washington to discuss ways to salvage the process.

But the brusque exchange between Mr. Obama and Mr. Netanyahu reflected again the gulf between Israel and the United States over settlements — an issue Mr. Obama initially made the centerpiece of his Middle East diplomacy. Palestinian officials said Israel’s latest announcement threatened the talks and could prompt a unilateral declaration of a Palestinian state.

When asked in about Israel’s plans for 1,000 housing units for a contested part of East Jerusalem, Mr. Obama said, “This kind of activity is never helpful when it comes to peace negotiations.”

“I’m concerned that we’re not seeing each side make the extra effort involved to get a breakthrough,” the president added during his visit to Indonesia. “Each of these incremental steps can end up breaking trust.”

A few hours later, Mr. Netanyahu’s office responded with a statement, saying that “Jerusalem is not a settlement; Jerusalem is the capital of the State of Israel.”

The United States and Israel have well-known differences over Jerusalem, Mr. Netanyahu’s office said in the statement, adding that building plans should have no effect on the peace talks.

Despite their efforts to build mutual trust, Mr. Obama and Mr. Netanyahu seem to keep talking past each other. On Tuesday, they were worlds apart in symbolism as well as substance: the president voiced his criticism of Israel while on a visit to Jakarta, capital of the world’s most populous Muslim country.

Mr. Netanyahu was in New York, meeting business people, midway through a visit to the United States that included a speech to a Jewish group in New Orleans on Monday, in which he called on Washington to be more aggressive in threatening Iran with a military strike if it did not give up its nuclear program.

Analysts said Mr. Netanyahu’s unyielding tone — a palpable contrast to his chagrined reaction after a similar housing dispute during a visit to Israel by Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. — testified to the altered political environment in the United States. The stinging Democratic defeat in the midterm elections, the analysts said, had emboldened Mr. Netanyahu to push back harder against the administration.

“He is dealing with a president who is politically weakened,” said Daniel C. Kurtzer, a former American ambassador to Israel. “A lot of his friends in Washington are Republicans. He feels more comfortable with them, so he just feels that he’s got a freer hand here.”

Israel’s ambassador to the United States, Michael B. Oren, rejected that view. “We’re not looking for a confrontation with the Obama administration,” he said.

He said Mr. Netanyahu was eager to discuss with Mrs. Clinton “how we are going to move forward, once we get over this hump.”

But Mr. Oren declined to say whether Mr. Netanyahu would offer new proposals for breaking the impasse. The United States has asked him to extend the settlement freeze for 60 days in return for security incentives.

Israeli officials have said Mr. Netanyahu is hemmed in by his right-wing coalition, which opposes extending the freeze. Some officials said that by taking a hard line on Israel’s right to build in Jerusalem, Mr. Netanyahu might gain the political cover to compromise over the West Bank.

On Wednesday, Mrs. Clinton will meet with Egypt’s foreign minister, Ahmed Aboul Gheit, and its intelligence chief, Omar Suleiman. Egypt is worried by the impasse, and American officials said they expected the Egyptians to advance their own ideas for resuscitating the talks, which could include an Israeli pledge to withdraw troops from parts of the West Bank.

Whether that would be enough to satisfy the Palestinians without an extension of the settlement freeze is not clear. In another gesture to the Palestinians, Mrs. Clinton will announce the United States’ annual financial contribution to the Palestinian Authority on Wednesday, an administration official said.

Mr. Netanyahu has supported Mr. Obama’s mix of engagement and sanctions against Iran. But in his speech to the Jewish Federations of North America in New Orleans, he called for a more aggressive approach.

“If the international community, led by the United States, hopes to stop Iran’s nuclear program without resorting to military action,” he declared, “it will have to convince Iran that it is prepared to take such action.”

Dan Diker, a senior foreign policy analyst at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, said the speech was calculated to “push the military option to the top paragraph of the policy from the third or fourth paragraph.”

But Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said that the threat of military action was not the best way to deter Tehran. Mr. Gates said the recent United Nations sanctions against the Iranian government were starting to bite.

Israel’s housing announcement came in the form of plans published for public review in local newspapers on Friday, just before Mr. Netanyahu headed to Washington. As with previous announcements, Israeli officials said the timing was determined bureaucratically, not politically.

Still, the timing raised questions about what Mr. Netanyahu knew and when. After Mr. Biden’s visit to Israel was spoiled last March by a similar announcement that Mr. Netanyahu said was a surprise to him, American officials told the Israelis that they wanted no more surprises.

At the time, Mr. Netanyahu’s aides said he sent out letters demanding lists of future settlement plans to avoid surprises while peace talks were under way. It was unclear whether Mr. Netanyahu knew about this one before it was published in newspapers last week. On Tuesday, it also became clear that some 800 units would be built in the West Bank settlement of Ariel.

Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian negotiator, said Israel’s action was “a call for immediate international recognition of the Palestinian state.”

The Palestinian leadership has been talking about shifting its focus to getting international recognition of a Palestinian state if settlement building continued and the peace talks remained stalled. The Obama administration and Arab states have urged it not to go that route.

LINK (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/world/middleeast/10jerusalem.html)

Seshmeister
11-10-2010, 07:39 AM
You would maybe change your mind if a native American stole your house, stuck you on a shitty bit of land and then built a huge wall around it.

DavidLeeNatra
11-10-2010, 07:49 AM
You would maybe change your mind if a native American stole your house, stuck you on a shitty bit of land and then built a huge wall around it.

been there three weeks ago...it's not as simple as that...and I'm not taking sides...

chefcraig
11-10-2010, 07:54 AM
Israel needs to tell Obama to go fuck himself

At this point, I believe you have that backwards.

BigBadBrian
11-10-2010, 09:03 AM
You would maybe change your mind if a native American stole your house, stuck you on a shitty bit of land and then built a huge wall around it.

Israel had claims to that land long before the Palestinianoterrorits did. :gulp:

BigBadBrian
11-10-2010, 09:05 AM
At this point, I believe you have that backwards.

Please do a little more reading on the subject and see the following POST (http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?60796-Israel-needs-to-tell-Obama-to-go-fuck-himself&p=1499135&posted=1#post1499135). :gulp:

chefcraig
11-10-2010, 09:22 AM
Please do a little more reading on the subject and see the following POST (http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?60796-Israel-needs-to-tell-Obama-to-go-fuck-himself&p=1499135&posted=1#post1499135). :gulp:

Right, you are telling me to educate myself on a subject I've been following more than half my life. Quite frankly, I've about had it with discussing the Israel/Palestine conflict, mainly because it never seems to go anywhere. It seems that for about the past 25 years, anyone offering a dissenting opinion of voices coming out of Israel, be the thoughts cultural, political or philosophical in content, is labeled as an insensitive anti Semite. Ths defense has it's base in actions that took place in WWII. To me, this isn't political discourse, and quite frankly it barely qualifies as guarded rhetoric. What it does boil down to is the sort of tit for tat bickering you'd find in a high school debate class for underachievers. (Come to think of it, this pretty much crystallizes about 85% of what passes for political theater on the entire planet these days.) And the sad upshot to this crap is nothing, nothing gets accomplished. It's merely a show full of smoke and mirrors, yielding more heat than light. The fact is, it's all a remarkably astounding waste of time.

The reality of the situation is this: The so-called "peace process" has been tripping over itself since sometime before the Carter administration, and in that time nothing has changed, despite the efforts of several different U.S. administrations since the seventies. People are still dying every day because of the conflict, yet both sides continue to bicker back and forth because apparently, this is the status quo they have become accustomed to. So as I said earlier, maybe it would be a good idea for the U.S. to give up altogether, and let the combatants settle things amongst themselves. Of course that isn't going to happen, so yet another administration finds it's hands tied, it's money wasted and ultimately, with absolutely zero chance of any reconciliation in sight.

FORD
11-10-2010, 10:24 AM
Israel had claims to that land long before the Palestinianoterrorits did. :gulp:

Those Russian bastards like NuttyYahoo have about as much relation to the family lines of Abraham and Moses as they do the Vulcan family line of Mr Spock.

Nitro Express
11-10-2010, 10:57 AM
Those Russian bastards like NuttyYahoo have about as much relation to the family lines of Abraham and Moses as they do the Vulcan family line of Mr Spock.

I hate the whole special bloodline concept. It basically says God plays favorites and anyone without Abraham and Sarah blood are shit. It's more about controlling populations of people and having an excuse to justify bad behavior than anything. We just need to tell these Jews and Muslims they are nothing special and we can stop enabling the madness by ignoring them. But certain people want to control the middle east resources and it sells lots of weapons. Enabling it makes a few filthy rich while making most our lives miserable.

I say pull out, make oil obsolete with new technology, and let these holier than thou bastards fight over the Oasis, the holy land, and the women like they have been doing for thousands of years. Let them live in the stone age while we focus on more productive things.

Nitro Express
11-10-2010, 11:04 AM
The reality is Jews and muslims got along fairly well in the middle east until the Zionists out of Europe came in and started thinking they were special. There have always been Jews in the middle east and then you have these Khazar converts playing high and mighty coming in. I think it had more to do with European bankers wanting a base of operations they controlled close to the Suez canal and oil fields than religion.

Nitro Express
11-10-2010, 11:08 AM
Bringing peace to the middle east is about as realistic as making Sammy Hagar music good. It's impossible and a waste of time.

FORD
11-10-2010, 11:13 AM
Jerusalem should not be anybody's capitol. It should be an independent city-state of its own. Israel should keep Tel Aviv as their capitol, and a Palestinian state should exist with some other city as their capitol. Jerusalem shouldn't belong to either one.

And the fact that NuttyYahoo spelled it "capital" says a lot about his true motivations, for that matter.

FORD
11-10-2010, 11:15 AM
The reality is Jews and muslims got along fairly well in the middle east until the Zionists out of Europe came in and started thinking they were special. There have always been Jews in the middle east and then you have these Khazar converts playing high and mighty coming in. I think it had more to do with European bankers wanting a base of operations they controlled close to the Suez canal and oil fields than religion.


The Bible actually predicted this, believe it or not. There are several references to "those who say they are Jews but are not, they are the Synagogue of Satan".

chefcraig
11-10-2010, 11:18 AM
The real problem with the whole debate is the idea of using the Bible as a basis of historical archeology. Wouldn't it be a pisser if the territory the Israelites claimed as the holy land was in fact in the wrong geographic location? This sure would blow a hole in the idea of entitlement, as the logic is pretty much like some guy approaching your station wagon in the Denny's parking lot and claiming it as his own, since he "discovered" it. This makes as much sense as Columbus discovering America. How in hell do you "discover" a country, when there are people on the shore waving back at you as your boat sails into the harbor? (Stole that last line from a comedian who's name escapes my memory at the moment.)

Nitro Express
11-10-2010, 11:30 AM
The bible is History. His Story. It's been written and rewritten to justify someone's political agenda. The history of temple systems is they are used to control the populations of people who are subject to this system. If anything, I think the concept was borrowed from the Babylonians who invented it.

The Mormons are a good example. They want as many temples as possible because this is how they control the church population. Attending the temple is required to be a member in good standing and not attending means they endlessly pressure you to go and you will be the third class citizen in the church without temple attending status. How do you get this status? You pay at least 10% of your gross earnings to the church, marry another member in the temple, and do everything the church leaders tell you to do. On top of that, non temple attending members cannot attend temple weddings so they throw it in your face there as well. Temples are all about control, always have been and always will be.

It was huge business in Jesus's day where everyone had to come to Jerusalem and spend lots of money. The high priests lived well off the spoils. It was a racket then as it is a racket now.

Nitro Express
11-10-2010, 11:33 AM
Sacrifice usually means giving your money, soul, family, and work to a intermediary that claims to be chosen by God. It's the oldest scam going. There's no proof of any reward because you have to die first to see. It's the best ponzi scheme ever. Religion is where you take everything and give nothing back tax free.

Seshmeister
11-10-2010, 06:28 PM
I hate the whole special bloodline concept. It basically says God plays favorites and anyone without Abraham and Sarah blood are shit. It's more about controlling populations of people and having an excuse to justify bad behavior than anything. We just need to tell these Jews and Muslims they are nothing special and we can stop enabling the madness by ignoring them. But certain people want to control the middle east resources and it sells lots of weapons. Enabling it makes a few filthy rich while making most our lives miserable.

I say pull out, make oil obsolete with new technology, and let these holier than thou bastards fight over the Oasis, the holy land, and the women like they have been doing for thousands of years. Let them live in the stone age while we focus on more productive things.

Even a broken clock... ;)

Spot on.

Seshmeister
11-10-2010, 06:29 PM
The Bible actually predicted this, believe it or not. There are several references to "those who say they are Jews but are not, they are the Synagogue of Satan".

Surely it's time for you to wean yourself off the Biblical prophecy madness....?

FORD
11-10-2010, 06:46 PM
Surely it's time for you to wean yourself off the Biblical prophecy madness....?

Well, in this case it looks like they got it right. These fucks like NuttyYahoo are no more "Jews" than you or me.

ELVIS
11-10-2010, 08:14 PM
They who ??

Seshmeister
11-10-2010, 08:19 PM
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FORD
11-10-2010, 08:27 PM
They who ??

The dudes who wrote the Bible. I believe it was the Apostle John, in this case.

ELVIS
11-10-2010, 08:30 PM
Just checking...

Seshmeister
11-10-2010, 09:48 PM
The dudes who wrote the Bible. I believe it was the Apostle John, in this case.

John is full of it.

According to him the Christ character said that you will get whatever you pray for so one of them was lying otherwise I would own my own distillery by now.

And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14 NAB)

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. (John 15:7 NAB)

It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you. (John 15:16 NAB)

On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. (John 16:23-24 NAB)

ELVIS
11-10-2010, 10:10 PM
Well Sesh, those passages have proved themselves in my life, but think what you want...


:elvis:

Nitro Express
11-10-2010, 10:19 PM
The dudes who wrote the Bible. I believe it was the Apostle John, in this case.

But how do we know for sure. I think the Council of Nicea used a lot of literary license but damn, Constantine needed a book and some dogma when he cooked his church up.

Seshmeister
11-10-2010, 10:24 PM
Well Sesh, those passages have proved themselves in my life, but think what you want...


:elvis:

He specifically said 'whatever you ask for' not 'whatever I think is good for you.'

He's worse than the chocolate Jesus Obama.

Nitro Express
11-10-2010, 10:30 PM
Protestantism means taking a turd and trying to polish it.

ELVIS
11-10-2010, 11:12 PM
He specifically said 'whatever you ask for' not 'whatever I think is good for you.'



That's somewhat out of context...

Seshmeister
11-11-2010, 04:56 AM
It's not good enough.

I'm still waiting and he hasn't even said a word.

You wonder what the point is anyway, even when he does promise things you still end up getting humped.

Look at that poor O'Connell woman...


CBN's Jennifer Wishon reported that O'Donnell spoke to her "before she stopped doing interviews at the advice of Tea Party power broker Sarah Palin."

"God's keeping me in the race," O'Donnell told Wishon.

O'Donnell said the road to seeking elected office has been rocky. In 2008, she endured personal attacks and even vandalism in her run against then Sen. Joe Biden. It would have been easy to give up, but she says God wouldn't "release her."

"God continued to strengthen and empower us," O'Donnell said. "His strength is perfected in our weakness and that's what's exciting, because you see that if it weren't for faith, when all logic said it's time to quit -- we pursued."

"We marched on because we knew God was not releasing us to quit and now with such an important lame duck session you realize why we were to endure all that stuff," she added.

LoungeMachine
11-11-2010, 05:32 AM
That's somewhat out of context...

Excuse me, but isn't ANY quote from the Reader's Digest Holy Book,,,,"somewhat out of context"?

:gulp:

Jesus Christ....

ashstralia
11-11-2010, 06:53 AM
John is full of it.

According to him the Christ character said that you will get whatever you pray for so one of them was lying otherwise I would own my own distillery by now.

jesus posts here. our lord and saviour. maybe we should ask him. jesus? are ya there, jesus? if it's tuesday, wait for lent. :biggrin:

ELVIS
11-11-2010, 07:59 AM
O'Donnell has a lot to learn, but she will be back...

Seshmeister
11-11-2010, 08:04 AM
Why out of all the millions of people in the country do you wish to be represented by people with learning difficulties?

Dr. Love
11-11-2010, 09:49 AM
The best course of action is to step back and let everyone in that region blow each other to bits.

Fuck yeah!!

Nitro Express
11-11-2010, 11:24 AM
yeah. ignore the middle east. We have tits to look at!

Seshmeister
11-11-2010, 11:35 AM
The best course of action is to step back and let everyone in that region blow each other to bits.

Fuck yeah!!

That would hardly be good value for money for all the people that paid good money buying the US government though.

And what are you going to say to all the folk who make the cluster and phosphorus bombs that the taxpayer buys and sends over there?

They have got to lose their jobs just because you are sick of paying to blow up children in Palestine?

The bottom has already fallen out of the phosphorus bomb market already with all those international laws and stuff. You can't kick American workers when they're down. You know how few rogue states are left out there to make this stuff for?

Nitro Express
11-11-2010, 01:41 PM
Israel: "President Obama."

Obama: "Yes Israel?"

Israel: "Go fuck yourself!"

Obama: "Fine. I will just spend the billions of dollars we waste on you on building my domestic security force. Plus, I'm really a muslim so fuck you back!"

Dr. Love
11-11-2010, 04:02 PM
That would hardly be good value for money for all the people that paid good money buying the US government though.

And what are you going to say to all the folk who make the cluster and phosphorus bombs that the taxpayer buys and sends over there?

They have got to lose their jobs just because you are sick of paying to blow up children in Palestine?

The bottom has already fallen out of the phosphorus bomb market already with all those international laws and stuff. You can't kick American workers when they're down. You know how few rogue states are left out there to make this stuff for?

Hey, just because we're stepping back doesn't mean we can't sell them what they need to blow eachother to bits!

Guitar Shark
11-11-2010, 04:20 PM
Why out of all the millions of people in the country do you wish to be represented by people with learning difficulties?

Birds of a feather... ;)

Seshmeister
11-11-2010, 05:53 PM
Hey, just because we're stepping back doesn't mean we can't sell them what they need to blow eachother to bits!

They use the money you give them each year to buy the bombs.

GAR
11-11-2010, 05:53 PM
The more trade partnering exists between Israel and the rest of the region, the less likely any eruption of wars will occur.

Jordan, Syria and Saudi Arabia should tell their fellow Arab states to fuck off, because all they do is talk shit whichever way the wind blows.

One day they're in an uproar "israel yadda yadda" the next they're importing massive supplies of goods - and if they get called on the carpet for it, they just reroute the paperwork thru a Egyptian or Saudi address to skirt the issue.

Bottom line is, Iran needs to be told to Fuck Off by Obama and he won't do it... he'd be offending his brother - the 13'th "Mahdi" - Ahmadinejad his brother Muslim.

jhale667
11-11-2010, 06:03 PM
Ahmadinejad his brother Muslim.

:duh: Figures you're a fucking birther too...

GAR
11-11-2010, 06:06 PM
They use the money you give them each year to buy the bombs.

What's so bad about phosphorus bombs? I thought phosphates are good for sandy soils!

Dr. Love
11-11-2010, 06:17 PM
They use the money you give them each year to buy the bombs.

You mean the money the chinese give us. ;)

GAR
11-11-2010, 06:37 PM
:duh: Figures you're a fucking birther too...

"A tree is known by its fruit.." etc. get a grip