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Nickdfresh
11-17-2010, 06:45 PM
November 10, 2010
G.M., Days Away From Stock Offering, Posts $2 Billion Profit
By NICK BUNKLEY

DETROIT — A week before its initial public offering, General Motors reported its largest quarterly profit in 11 years on Wednesday, showing that the slimmed-down automaker no longer needed huge sales to generate significant earnings.

G.M. said it earned $2 billion in the third quarter, nearly equaling its profit for the first half of 2010. G.M. earned $4.2 billion from January through September.

The company said it expected to report a fourth-quarter profit, at least before accounting for interest and taxes, though “at a significantly lower run rate than each of the first three quarters,” and a full-year profit for the first time since 2004.

“As demonstrated by our third consecutive quarter of profitability and positive cash flow, these results continue our significant progress,” G.M.’s chief financial officer, Christopher P. Liddell, said in a statement.

The profit was equal to $1.20 a share, after a three-for-one stock split. There is no meaningful year-ago profit comparison because the company emerged from bankruptcy in the third quarter of 2009.

Revenue increased 27 percent from the third quarter last year, to $34.1 billion.

G.M. earned $2.1 billion in North America, the region that had been responsible for most of its losses in recent years. It lost $559 million in Europe. It had $33.5 billion in cash and marketable securities as of Sept. 30, up from $31.5 billion as of June 30.

“We know we have much more work to do,” G.M.’s chief executive, Daniel F. Akerson, said in a conference call with analysts and reporters. “We still need to fix Europe. We continue to be vigilant in reducing costs in the enterprise, and we have just started doing a better job marketing our brands to consumers.”

Company executives have been traveling this week to meet with potential investors to convince them that the new G.M., formed by discarding burdensome assets in bankruptcy protection last year, is positioned to consistently generate a profit.

G.M. can earn about $11 billion to $13 billion a year under normal market conditions and as much as $19 billion in boom times, Mr. Liddell said in a video created for would-be investors and posted online.

Three years ago, G.M. needed to sell nearly four million vehicles a year in the United States to break even, but today, it can be profitable at roughly half that sales volume, Mr. Liddell said in the video. Hourly labor costs have been cut by more than two-thirds, to $5 billion, from $16 billion in 2005, he said.

Through October, G.M. was on pace to sell about 2.2 million vehicles this year in the United States, about half as many as it did in 2005, when it lost $10.6 billion.

It shed four of its eight domestic brands, shutting down Pontiac, Saturn and Hummer, and selling Saab to a Dutch company, Spyker Cars. Over all, G.M.’s sales are up 6.6 percent this year, but sales by the brands that are still offered, Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC, are up 22.1 percent.

New models, including redesigned versions of the Buick LaCrosse sedan and Chevrolet Equinox crossover vehicle, have been well received by critics and consumers, to the point that G.M. has struggled to keep up with demand. Early sales of a critical new small car, the Chevrolet Cruze, have been brisk, and G.M. is about a month away from introducing the Chevrolet Volt, a plug-in hybrid car that it says represents the company’s future direction.

G.M.’s public stock offering, expected to occur Nov. 18 and be worth at least $10.6 billion, will allow the federal government to begin recouping the bulk of its $49.5 billion investment in the automaker. The government plans initially to sell about a third of its 61 percent stake in G.M., in the hope that it can divest the remaining portion as the shares’ value increases.

The automaker said last week that shares would be priced from $26 to $29, after a three-for-one split. Other G.M. stakeholders, including a trust that pays health care costs for union retirees, plan to participate in the offering.

Ultimately, the government needs to sell its shares for an average of about $44 to break even. The Treasury Department already has recovered $7.4 billion from G.M., including interest and dividends, and is slated to get a $2.1 billion more after the offering, from a deal in which G.M. has agreed to repurchase preferred shares held by the Treasury.

Separately, G.M. confirmed in a filing to the Securities and Exchange Commission that it had removed one of the underwriters for its public offering, because an employee of the bank distributed an “unauthorized e-mail” containing information about the offering. G.M. did not identify the bank, but UBS is no longer listed as an underwriter on G.M.’s amended registration forms. G.M. said that the e-mail might violate S.E.C. rules, but that nonetheless, “We do not believe that we will be subject to any material liability.”

G.M.’s third-quarter profit surpasses the $1.7 billion earned in the same period by the Ford Motor Company, the only Detroit automaker to avoid bankruptcy. Ford has earned $6.3 billion so far this year.

Chrysler, which filed for bankruptcy protection a month sooner than G.M. and is 8 percent owned by the federal government, said on Monday that that it lost $84 million in the third quarter but posted a third consecutive operating profit. Chrysler expects to have a public stock offering in late 2011.

LINK (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/11/business/11auto.html)

Nitro Express
11-17-2010, 07:17 PM
Why do I want to invest in a company that went belly up due to poor management and saved by a broke government? There are two main things you look at before buying a stock. One, the amount of debt the company is saddled with and two, the management. Just because a stock is cheap doesn't mean you buy it. Used cigarette butts are cheap as well.

PETE'S BROTHER
11-17-2010, 08:23 PM
china :baaa:

Nitro Express
11-17-2010, 09:17 PM
Ford. They didn't need a bailout, plus those new Mustangs are good looking cars.

Nickdfresh
11-17-2010, 10:06 PM
Go buy a fucking Chinese Cherry!

Nitro Express
11-18-2010, 12:47 AM
Fuck Cherry. George Sorros and Maurice Strong (king pin of the UN global warming hoax) were responsible for getting those pieces of shit imported to the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chery_Automobile

Nickdfresh
11-18-2010, 09:32 PM
Fuck Cherry. George Sorros and Maurice Strong (king pin of the UN global warming hoax) were responsible for getting those pieces of shit imported to the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chery_Automobile

I mean really? Maybe you should be a bit more critical when Wikishittypedia and actually denote their sources:

Canada Free Press founding editor Most recent by Judi McLeod is an award-winning journalist with 30 years experience in the print media. Her work has appeared on Newsmax.com, Drudge Report, Foxnews.com, Glenn Beck. Judi can be reached at: judi@canadafreepress.com

The completely out of place sentence in the Wiki article is based on the factually incorrect rantings of some Canadian fucktard author who panders to the right for a living...

Check citation #7.

And the article also states that GM has attempted to sue Chery for infringement and blatantly ripping off their styling (Buick is one of the most popular cars in China, ironically).

And while Chery may ultimately become a daunting threat to the U.S. car industry, my bet is they won't ever be a major player here as we're already reaching market saturation with makes from Europe, South Korea, Japan, and soon to be India. I don't think they're going to find enough of a market here just as several Euro manufacturers such as Opel, Renault and Fiat have been driven out...

Nitro Express
11-18-2010, 11:48 PM
Maurice Strong was the prime instigator in the carbon tax scam. He also was involved in the UN oil for food scam and when the heat was on, he booked for China. Not exactly the kind of guy I want to buy a car from.

twonabomber
11-19-2010, 03:29 AM
And while Chery may ultimately become a daunting threat to the U.S. car industry, my bet is they won't ever be a major player here as we're already reaching market saturation with makes from Europe, South Korea, Japan, and soon to be India. I don't think they're going to find enough of a market here just as several Euro manufacturers such as Opel, Renault and Fiat have been driven out...

Fiat's coming back with Alfa Romeo returning a possibility. Opel would be just another badge-engineered Chevy product that GM doesn't need and Renault is running Nissan.

India's already here since Tata Motors bought Jag and Land Rover. the Mahindra pickup is being delayed again and again, who knows when it'll show up.

Nickdfresh
11-19-2010, 07:27 AM
Maurice Strong was the prime instigator in the carbon tax scam. He also was involved in the UN oil for food scam and when the heat was on, he booked for China.

Mouthing the same cliches. The "oil for food scandal" shit was largely scapegoating and blame-shifting after the Iraq invasion became a clusterfuck in an effort to deflect attention from the fact that taking over Iraq largely meant taking its oil and securing it for U.S. and Euro company contracts. And the carbon tax isn't a scam, it's an effort to enforce sustainability...


Not exactly the kind of guy I want to buy a car from.

He's not a car salesman...

Nickdfresh
11-19-2010, 07:33 AM
Fiat's coming back with Alfa Romeo returning a possibility.

I hope so. It will be interesting to see what they do at Chrysler dealerships.



Opel would be just another badge-engineered Chevy product that GM doesn't need and Renault is running Nissan.

GM is still rebadging Opels (Buick Regal is just an Opel, and a nice one). And if GM had taken a page out of Ford's book and used Saturn as Opel of North America sooner instead of just making a slightly nicer Cobalt/G5 and Malibu/G6, they might still be around as a real alternative to the other carboncopy GM products...


India's already here since Tata Motors bought Jag and Land Rover. the Mahindra pickup is being delayed again and again, who knows when it'll show up.

Yeah, we'll see what happens with those. Ford took pains to improve the quality of both, especially Jag. We'll see how the Indians do...

Nitro Express
11-19-2010, 12:17 PM
The thing with GM. Their previous stock and bond holders got the shaft. What's to say that doesn't happen again? Plus, who is gong to buy the Volt in a depression? It's too expensive.

Nitro Express
11-19-2010, 12:19 PM
Ford needed cash so they sold Land Rover and Jaguar off to Tatta. It's one move that allowed them to avoid a bailout.

Nitro Express
11-19-2010, 12:21 PM
Everyone knows Alfa Romero and Fiat are horribly unreliable cars. I had an Alfa Romero Spider. A neat fun car but lots of problems. If you want reliable transportation, avoid those things. If you want a good foreign car brand, buy a Volkswagen.

Nitro Express
11-19-2010, 12:25 PM
Mouthing the same cliches. The "oil for food scandal" shit was largely scapegoating and blame-shifting after the Iraq invasion became a clusterfuck in an effort to deflect attention from the fact that taking over Iraq largely meant taking its oil and securing it for U.S. and Euro company contracts. And the carbon tax isn't a scam, it's an effort to enforce sustainability...



He's not a car salesman...


Drink the Kool-Aid my friend. You don't have a clue. You must work for the government or collect welfare. You certainly don't have any assets to protect.

Nitro Express
11-19-2010, 12:38 PM
So a company becomes a great buy when the bondholders are told to go burn their bonds, the gov't takes 50 Billion dollars from us and puts it in the company, and now it's worth $30.00 a share? They still have billions in unfunded legacy pension costs and are wasting millions on an electric car that isn't electric, a car that no one will buy, even at its cost to manufacture. Count me out! Oh, except what they already took from me.

PETE'S BROTHER
11-19-2010, 12:46 PM
i'm expecting a dividend check for my tax dollars invested :baaa:

twonabomber
11-19-2010, 12:58 PM
If you want a good foreign car brand, buy a Volkswagen.

based on what i've read on car forums, VW's and the equivalent Audi models aren't that reliable and are expensive to repair.

Nitro Express
11-19-2010, 02:09 PM
I bought the Phaeton and my daughter drives a Beetle. Great cars and we haven't had any problems. I don't think parts are any more than a Japanese car.

Nitro Express
11-19-2010, 02:12 PM
I've had several Italian cars and they are fun as a novelty but would be lousy daily drivers. If you don't warm the engine up on an a Italian car and drive it, you will have pre-mature engine failure. I picked up a Lamborghini on the cheap because the owner didn't warm the engine up, drove it hard and the cylinder sleeves went loose.

Nickdfresh
11-20-2010, 06:18 PM
Drink the Kool-Aid my friend. You don't have a clue. You must work for the government or collect welfare. You certainly don't have any assets to protect.

Cliche-spouting jackoff says what?

As for assets to 'protect,' I'm not the one whining here about health insurance premiums...

Nickdfresh
11-20-2010, 06:21 PM
Everyone knows Alfa Romero and Fiat are horribly unreliable cars. I had an Alfa Romero Spider. A neat fun car but lots of problems. If you want reliable transportation, avoid those things. If you want a good foreign car brand, buy a Volkswagen.

That was like 20 years ago. Fiats are every bit as reliable as just about anything else. And comparing Alfa's to what? Horridly unreliable Audis, BMWs, or Mercedes? and for the most part, a VW is the last car I'd buy for reliability. They have some nicely styled stuff when you buy it, but it seems to fall apart in short order...

Nickdfresh
11-20-2010, 06:26 PM
based on what i've read on car forums, VW's and the equivalent Audi models aren't that reliable and are expensive to repair.

Can you say, "sludger engine?" Perhaps that's not entirely fair. But there's no way I'd ever buy a used Audi or VW with a 1.8T or 2.0T with their once a year dealer synthetic oil changes. And many of the ignorant tools who buy those cars probably don't even use the correct spec. of oil anyways when they go into Iffy Lube...

The Jetta TDI however...

Nitro Express
11-20-2010, 06:26 PM
Cliche-spouting jackoff says what?

As for assets to 'protect,' I'm not the one whining here about health insurance premiums...

That's because the New York State welfare department probably pays yours asshole. What do you do for a living and could you make it without government assistance?

Nickdfresh
11-20-2010, 06:28 PM
I bought the Phaeton and my daughter drives a Beetle. Great cars and we haven't had any problems. I don't think parts are any more than a Japanese car.

You obviously haven't had to repair them yet. Incidentally, the Beetle is notorious for starting on fire due to electronics issues...

Nitro Express
11-20-2010, 06:30 PM
That was like 20 years ago. Fiats are every bit as reliable as just about anything else. And comparing Alfa's to what? Horridly unreliable Audis, BMWs, or Mercedes? and for the most part, a VW is the last car I'd buy for reliability. They have some nicely styled stuff when you buy it, but it seems to fall apart in short order...

BMW has gone to shit. The lower end of Mercedes is now shit. Fiats have always been rust bucket shit. VW's have been pretty damn reliable and plenty of old ones still running around. In fact, VW is the world's largest automaker. If you want to talk Italian cars, I have one at the moment and have owned five in the past. If you warm them up, Lamborghinis are pretty reliable.

Nickdfresh
11-20-2010, 06:32 PM
That's because the New York State welfare department probably pays yours asshole.

No, they don't pay mys asshole, Wyoming fuckface....


What do you do for a living and could you make it without government assistance?

Apparently I have so far, except for stints in the Army (which is some ways is gov't assistance) and a couple of incomplete boughts of collecting unemployment long ago, I don't think I've had any. But coming from an internet Walter Middy jackoff who even in his most optimistic fantasies admits that he inherited much from his parents (another from of "assistance") should I really be offended?

Nitro Express
11-20-2010, 06:33 PM
You obviously haven't had to repair them yet. Incidentally, the Beetle is notorious for starting on fire due to electronics issues...

The old air cooled Beetles caught fire due to fuel lines leaking into the ignition system. The new Beetle is basically a Golf with a different body. A time proven car. My Phaeton is new so we will see.

Nickdfresh
11-20-2010, 06:45 PM
BMW has gone to shit. The lower end of Mercedes is now shit.

Agreed. For a time they were just nice alternatives to American cars and tended to handle well. But then everyone got a hard-on for them and anointed them the greatest status symbols ever. The truth is that they're really overrated nicely styled overpriced crap with nightmare electronics, although they're trying to improve that with mixed success and consistency...


Fiats have always been rust bucket shit.

Most cars were. In the era of galvanized steel however, they're much improved and the Fiat 500 is a major competitor to Mini for instance...


VW's have been pretty damn reliable and plenty of old ones still running around. In fact, VW is the world's largest automaker.

Mostly out of consolidation and the fact that they do well in China. There are some old ones still running around and much like other overly complex German shit, they make (usually) great drivetrains once you've completely gone through the electronics and have redone them. They're also notorious for various blunders such as the five cylinder engine meant to get the fuel economy of a four-banger and some of the power of a six, but seems to get the power of a four banger and the economy of a V6....


If you want to talk Italian cars, I have one at the moment and have owned five in the past. If you warm them up, Lamborghinis are pretty reliable.

I'd probably prefer something Japanese, although not that they're perfect and deserve mindless worship the likes of Consumer Reports has bestowed on them...

Nitro Express
11-20-2010, 06:46 PM
Well since Buffalo taxed itself into oblivion years ago and there isn't any real industry there anymore, I imagine most the place lives on the dole. The thing is who is going to pay for all these government programs you so love when there is no industrial base? Where's the money going to come from? The rich will just move out of the country which they are doing now.

Nickdfresh
11-20-2010, 07:14 PM
Well since Buffalo taxed itself into oblivion years ago and there isn't any real industry there anymore, I imagine most the place lives on the dole.

Really? Is that your answer? Actually, Buffalo is more of an irrelevant Great Lakes port city than a post industrial one, that was by-passed with the completion of the Welland Canal on the St. Lawrence Seaway in Canada, and taxes had fuckall to do with that. We still have some industry such as the auto plants here, and most receive some sort of tax subsidy. But Buffalo is now becoming a biomedical research mecca and college town. Yeah, the taxes are 'too damn high!' But there's a price for having low state taxes, usually in the form of having no infrastructure in many places in the South. And the real estate bargains here often compensate for the taxes...


The thing is who is going to pay for all these government programs you so love when there is no industrial base? Where's the money going to come from? The rich will just move out of the country which they are doing now.

We do have a semblance of an industrial base, and the Federal Gov't pays a good deal of these "programs" you speak of. Why would the Rich move out? They pay mostly lower taxes here than in most of Europe and just about any place worth a fuck to live. And if one's rich, like say Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, why would you give a fuck about paying a bit in taxes? The aforementioned even advocate for higher taxes on the top one or two percent. But maybe the disgruntled, lazy trustfund douches can go to Mexico where there's effectively no middle classes to buffer between the impoverished and the numerous billionaires and where Darwin can finally erase their unfair advantages in a drug gang crossfire?

Nitro Express
11-20-2010, 09:01 PM
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/taxes/more-rich-americans-renounce-u-s-citizenship-for-lower-taxes/19560160/

Many people who start and run businesses are fed up and leaving. Several people I know now live in Singapore and New Zealand. Taxes are only one issue, but it's the endless government meddling that people are sick of. To be honest, it's easier to start a business in China than here. A lot of Americans are living in Panama. The economy is hoping down there thank's to the canal zone doing well. Too bad we gave it away.

Nitro Express
11-20-2010, 09:08 PM
The thing is Buffalo would come back if we start making things again. Why buy everything from China? The quality isn't any better. Plus, those kids who go into gangs, if they had another alternative, many would become line workers, some of those would further their education and go further. But the politicians don't get it and everyone wants free handouts. The productive people are scared and some are fleeing because the government has gone insane.

I have no idea what my taxes are going to be in 2011. That is one of my biggest business expenses so I'm just going to sit tight and this is because the US Congress never passed a budget. They were too busy passing a healthcare law nobody bothered to read and the public frankly didn't want. So until we change the government and get some confidence back, they are going to bolt.

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Seshmeister
11-20-2010, 10:07 PM
That baldy cunt is full of shit.

He's a fucking property speculator nothing more. He doesn't create anything.

You always get this shit about 'Oh the super rich are going to leave because of the tax'.

It's complete shit.

It's a big fucking crock of crap.

They don't leave for the following reasons.

1) There is no tax is Somalia but you can't go to fucking Nobu and drink champagne there.

2) They don't pay tax. THEY DON'T PAY TAX! The richer you are the less tax you pay. The super rich pay no tax at all and their companies less. The only tax that idiot pays is sales tax on his latest whore's fucking shoes.

Nitro Express
11-21-2010, 01:25 AM
Trump is a property developer. He's created quite a lot actually. He's turned several defunct buildings into successful office, hotel, and residential operations. He's built some nice golf courses. A speculator doesn't have any skin in the game. When actually develop properties you are a developer.

Who's leaving the US are the investment bankers and holding company owners. The people who own fixed assets can't leave unless they liquidate.

Warren Buffet actually admitted he pays less tax than his secretary. I know there are earmarks in the tax code that allow very rich people to get out of paying taxes but it seems to be you need to be connected. If you are a congressman or the treasury secretary and you get busted, nothing happens where you or me would get fined and go to jail. So yeah, there is a double standard.

There are rich people who pay though, because the don't make enough to qualify for the ear marks or they don't have the political connections.

The thing is if you have a central bank that prints money from nothing you really don't need taxes. The whole tax thing is a population control mechanism. You can keep people in their place with taxes.

Nitro Express
11-21-2010, 01:59 AM
My wife was involved with the Miss America pageant and said Donald Trump has a huge ego. She doesn't care for him much but said his daughter Ivanka is very nice.

twonabomber
11-21-2010, 03:03 AM
I hope so. It will be interesting to see what they (Fiat) do at Chrysler dealerships.


i guess they'll be separate dealerships. local guy who got the Fiat store has his CDJ lot about 15 miles away from his main "campus," and the campus is where the Fiat store will be. it'll likely be in the flashy building built when he got the Mini store a few years ago.

they bring that 500 Abarth over, and i may end up with one. if it's good enough for Michael Schumacher, it's good enough for me. i think i have just enough room in the garage for a 500 behind my SRT-6.

there was some bad-ass looking Alfa coupe on Top Gear a couple years ago, i'll have to go back and see if i can find it. like to see one of those over here too.

Nickdfresh
11-21-2010, 09:07 AM
Trump is a property developer. He's created quite a lot actually. He's turned several defunct buildings into successful office, hotel, and residential operations....

He's also claimed bankruptcy several times to liquidate debt...

Little Texan
11-21-2010, 10:30 AM
they bring that 500 Abarth over, and i may end up with one. if it's good enough for Michael Schumacher, it's good enough for me. i think i have just enough room in the garage for a 500 behind my SRT-6.



I dunno, looks an awful lot like a VW Faux Beetle to me.

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/11/fiat_500_abarth_2_large1.jpg

PETE'S BROTHER
11-21-2010, 10:33 AM
i saw a pic somewhere of vw's new beetle body, definate improvement.

twonabomber
11-21-2010, 11:18 AM
I dunno, looks an awful lot like a VW Faux Beetle to me.

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/11/fiat_500_abarth_2_large1.jpg

for a little FWD car, it's fast. fast trumps looks. :D

this is an Abarth SS, hopefully we'll be able to upgrade a plain Abarth.

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Nickdfresh
11-21-2010, 05:40 PM
I dunno, looks an awful lot like a VW Faux Beetle to me.

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/11/fiat_500_abarth_2_large1.jpg

It's not. The 500 has been around for decades and is an evolution of style all its own. This might be a car I'd consider once it gets here. Hell, I like the Ford Fiesta a lot, and would like to see an SVT version...

Nitro Express
11-21-2010, 06:09 PM
Fiat Deal Values Chrysler at Less Than Zero

Fiat won't accept a 35% stake in Chrysler unless the US adds another $3 billion to the $4 billion we've already "lent" to the "US" automaker, according to a story in the Wall Street Journal. Fiat isn't going to put any money of its own in, of course; no one in their right mind would. Cerberus Capital Management, currently owner of 80.1% of Chrysler isn't putting money in; Daimler, owns the rest but values it at zero.

So, without our putting additional money in, the owners can't even give away shares in the company; that means its current value must be somewhere south of zero. Since that's the case, please remind me why we're planning to put more money in?

We are in the process of treating Chrysler Financial, also owned by Cerberus, like a bank so we can shovel money in there so that people can buy Chryslers. If there were no Chrysler, we wouldn't have to worry about Chrysler Financial. We've also bailed out GM. We have a better hope of getting a return on that investment if Chrysler isn't taking sales from them. And we've bailed out GMAC "to help GM". We've even added money to the GM bailout so it can put more into GMAC. GMAC's majority owner is Cerberus – must be a coincidence.

Ford has so far avoided bailouts. They won't be able to do that forever if we keep bailing out their competitors.

The New York Times says the Fiat deal (they didn't report that it's contingent on more bailout money) "will bring Chrysler what it needs to be a viable player in the evolving United States market, with its fuel-efficient engine technology and the engineering that goes into its small cars." The deal allows Chrysler to make Fiat models in its US plants. The Times goes on to say "The Fiat brand suffered from a reputation for poor quality among American consumers. Fiat models still score below average in J. D. Power customer-satisfaction surveys in some European markets."

The real value of the Fiat deal is that it gives us a way to see what Chrysler is worth today AFTER we have already put $4 billion in: less than nothing. The best result of this announcement is if we act on the valuation, swallow our losses, move on, and let Chrysler fade away.

Nitro Express
11-21-2010, 06:13 PM
Chrysler is still doing poorly and few people are going to be buying new cars with the economy the way it is. It looks like a neat little car though.

twonabomber
11-21-2010, 06:33 PM
Fiat Deal Values Chrysler at Less Than Zero


how old are these articles?