What If The Bible Is Really True? Parts 1 & 2

[BigBadBrian]

David Limbaugh
Link (http://townhall.com/columnists/DavidLimbaugh/2010/12/28/what_if_the_bible_really_is_true_part_ii/page/full/)

I'd like to challenge you to consider that the "good news" we celebrate during the Christmas season really is true.

You may choose to believe the Bible is merely a book of fables with nice moral lessons, but there is more abundant and accurate manuscript evidence for the New Testament than any other book from antiquity. Moreover, the number of witnesses to Christ's life, death and resurrection, as well as the nature of their testimony, is strong evidence of the reliability of the scriptural accounts, as are the corroborating secular testimony and archeological evidence.

In fact, the New Testament writers had every temporal motive to deny the resurrection occurred. Why would they fabricate and stand by a story that would lead to their being beaten, tortured and murdered?

So next time you read your Bible, consider that you're reading the inspired word of God and that Jesus really did say and do what the Bible reports, beginning with His claims about His own divinity:

He said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you know Me, you will also know My Father. ... The one who has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:6-8). He also said, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58). Here, Jesus claimed not only to have pre-existed Abraham but also that His pre-existence was eternal, as would have been the case had He said, "I was." More significantly, "I AM" was a name for God. He further identified himself as the God of the Old Testament, when proclaiming, "I am the light of the world" (Psalm 27:1 says, "The Lord is my light and my salvation") and "I am the good shepherd." (Psalm 23:1 says, "The Lord is my shepherd.") When responding to the high priest as to His deity, Jesus said, "I am and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven" (Mark 14:62).

Jesus also fulfilled Old Testament prophecies of the Messiah: He was born of a virgin, in Bethlehem, in the line of Abraham and David; He was rejected by His own people; His hands, feet and side were pierced, but no bones were broken; and He rose from the dead and ascended into heaven.

Jesus claimed to have authority to forgive sins. He told the paralyzed man, "But so you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins." He said He was the judge of mankind (John 5:25-29).

Jesus claimed honor that is only due God (Isaiah 42:8), when He said, "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began" (John 17:1) and "Honor the Son, even as they honor the Father" (John 5:23). Jesus invited prayer in His name: "And I will do whatever you ask in my name" (John 14:13). He accepted worship (Matthew 8:2, 14:33, 15:25, 20:20, 28:17), though the Old Testament clearly forbids the worship of anyone but God (Exodus 20:1-4; Deuteronomy 5:6-9). Even the angels refused to be worshipped (Revelation 22:8, 9).

Jesus said He would give us things that only God can give. "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it" (John 5:21).

Jesus told us not just to follow His teaching but also to follow Him (Matthew 10:38).

Jesus performed many miracles, the greatest being His resurrection, which He predicted (John 2:19, 21) and was attested to by all four Gospel writers and, among others, by Paul, who said Jesus was seen by more than 500 eyewitnesses, most of whom were still alive and could have contradicted him if untrue (1 Corinthians 15:4).

His Apostles also claimed that He was God: "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" (John 1:1); Jesus was the "first and the last" (Revelation 1:17, 2:8, 22:13); and, "For unto us, a child is born ... and his name will be called 'Wonderful, counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" (Matthew 1:23).

Jesus, who claimed and proved to be God, affirmed the divine authority of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:17-18) and promised that the Holy Spirit would inspire the New Testament revelations (John 14:26, 16:13). New Testament writers also attested that all Scripture is inspired of God (2 Timothy 3:16).

Once we conclude the Bible is the word of God, we will delight in the Scriptures (Psalm 119:92) and, as one writer put it, acquire "that great sense that we are living in the sphere of eternal security."

Eternal security, indeed, for Christ died so that by repenting and trusting in Him, we could live. Now that's the true meaning of Christmas and the best news of all.
**************************************************

Part 2

If I had to single out one thing that played the greatest role in initially convincing me of the Bible's authenticity and the truth of Christianity, I'd choose the Old Testament prophecies, especially those concerning the Messiah. The specificity of some of the individual prophecies is powerfully probative, but the odds against so many of them being fulfilled in the person of Christ by coincidence are utterly breathtaking.

In about 700 B.C., the Prophet Isaiah specifically named the king (Cyrus) who would rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, some 114 years before Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar destroyed it and some 150 years before Persia conquered the Babylonians and its king (Cyrus) issued the decree to rebuild the Temple. Josh McDowell summarized it this way: "Thus Isaiah predicted that a man named Cyrus, who would not be born for about 100 years, would give the command to rebuild the temple which was still standing in Isaiah's day and would not be destroyed for more than 100 years."

Biblical scholar J. Barton Payne cited 574 Old Testament verses containing messianic prophecies, and countless others have listed and explained them, but my favorite compilation is by McDowell, who highlights some 60 of them as unmistakable predictions. Let me give you just a sampling with the humble suggestion that you read and contemplate these verses yourselves.

The Messiah would: reconcile men to God at painful cost to Himself; come from the seed of a woman (Genesis 3:15); be a Semite (Genesis 9:26); descend through Abraham (Genesis 22:18), Isaac (Genesis 21:12) and Jacob Numbers 24:17) and be from the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10); be a prophet, like Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15), a priest (Psalm 110:4), the judge (Isaiah 33:22) and king (Psalm 2:6); descend from Jesse's line (Isaiah 11:1) and David's line and be eternal king (2 Samuel 7:13); be God, the Father's Son (Psalm 2:7; 2 Samuel 7:14); ransom men and restore their righteousness (Job 17:3); exist before time began and be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2), and young children would be killed (Jeremiah 31:15); be given gifts (Psalm 72:10; Isaiah 60:6); be called Lord (Psalm 110:1); be "God with us" (Isaiah 7:14); be anointed by the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 11:2, 42:1); have zeal for His Father's house and reproach those who would violate it (Psalm 69:9); be announced in advance (Isaiah 40:3);

begin his ministry in Galilee; heal the blind, deaf, dumb and lame (Isaiah 35:5,6); teach in parables (Psalm 78:2); enter the Temple (Malachi 3:1); enter Jerusalem on a donkey (Zechariah 9:9); be a stumbling block to the Jews (Psalm 118:22, 8:14); be a light to the gentiles (Isaiah 60:3); be resurrected (Psalm 16:10); ascend (Psalm 68:18) and sit at the right hand of God (Psalm 110:1); be betrayed by a friend (Psalm 41:19) and sold for 30 pieces of silver, which he would throw into the Temple and which would be given for the potter's field (Zechariah 11:12-13); be struck, causing his disciples to scatter (Zechariah 13:7), which Christ affirmed and repeated (Matthew 26:31); be falsely accused (Psalm 35:11); stand silent before His accusers (Isaiah 53:7); be wounded and bruised for people's sins (Isaiah 53:5), smitten and spit upon (Isaiah 50:6) and mocked (Psalm 22:7); be crucified with thieves and plead for those killing him (Isaiah 53:12); be thirsty (Psalm 69:21); ask God why He

had forsaken Him (Psalm 22:1); commit His spirit to God (Psalm 31:5); and be buried in a rich man's tomb (Isaiah 53:9). Darkness would fall over the land (Amos 8:9); His hands, feet (Psalm 22:16) and side (Zechariah 12:10) would be pierced, but none of His bones would be broken (Psalm 34:20); His own people would reject Him (Isaiah 53:3) and hate Him without cause (Psalm 69:4); His friends would witness His ordeal from afar (Psalm 38:11); and people would cast lots for his clothing (Psalm 22:18).

McDowell notes that the Old Testament was completed in about 450 B.C., but if you won't accept that, you can verify that the Septuagint (Greek translation) was begun during the reign of Ptolemy Philadelphus (285-246 B.C.), which means the Hebrew version had to have been completed at least 250 years before Christ was born.

He also notes that while it's true that Jesus could have arranged to fulfill some of these prophecies, He could not have orchestrated the place, time and manner of His birth, that He would be betrayed, the manner of His death, people's reactions to His crucifixion, the piercings and the burial. The statistical odds that any man might have fulfilled all eight of those prophecies, let alone 61 (or 574) of them, are 1 in 10 to the 17th power.

If you're not yet amazed, study Daniel 9:24-27, which many believe predicts, to the precise year, the entry of Jesus into Jerusalem.

Who do you say that He is?

[ZahZoo]

One problem with all this... the history and basis for this as the "savior" of mankind is it's all based on a tiny region of Earth and a very limited portion of the human population both in the time period and demographics.

Many other pockets of human life that existed thousands of years before, during and after have their "gods" and mysterious and magical history along with various alleged proficies and writings to support their spiritual basis and beliefs. Just because a handful of factions from this historical/geographical era took hold and was used/abused as a basis for power and societal control doesn't validate anything. If anything for all the loss of human life and actions directly in violation of the constructs laid out by judeo christian/islamic belief systems it could easily be said this is the most henious source of human power abuse in history...

If this version of God were universal... all this alleged truth would have occurred globally. But it didn't. You can't apply the basis for the old testiment globally because other, much larger and historically prominent portions of humanity and nature existed before, during and after the birth of this belief system in the middle east. Simple science and archiology has proven many other societies and various mystical belief systems have been at play around this planet. Once you get beyond a certain point... there's too much factual science and history to hook your wagon to one little place and period and call it "the one and only" way...

Once you start to realize the vastness of the universe, time, and history, of which we're still just skimming the surface of this speck of dust we live on... one myopic system originating from tribal folklore doesn't cut it...

[chefcraig]

...Once you start to realize the vastness of the universe, time, and history, of which we're still just skimming the surface of this speck of dust we live on... one myopic system originating from tribal folklore doesn't cut it...

Even so, there are still people out there walking around in public that will tell you with a straight face that Van Halen begins and ends with Sammy Hagar.



http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/unhappy/unhappy-089.gif (http://freesmileyface.net/free-unhappy-smileys.html)

[ZahZoo]

True but every time I come across one of those... instant tribal council and another idiot voted off...

[chefcraig]

True but every time I come across one of those... instant tribal council and another idiot voted off...

Yeah, it gives you the same inner glow and overwhelming sense of satisfaction of answering the door naked when the Jehovah's come knocking early Saturday mornings.

[Sam42]

If the story of jesus and the bible is true, then explain the findings of much older and ancient religions that lays out the same story with a different person as a messiah that is born of a virgin and dies only to rise on the third day.

[jhale667]

If the story of jesus and the bible is true, then explain the findings of much older and ancient religions that lays out the same story with a different person as a messiah that is born of a virgin and dies only to rise on the third day.

So true - there are many identical "messiah" stories that pre-date Jesus that have in some cases the EXACT same mythology - born of a virgin, healed the sick, hung out with 12 dudes, was executed and arose from the grave 3 days later...are we to believe he was a divine copycat? :umm:

[Guitar Shark]

Who do you say that He is?

This guy. (http://www.venganza.org/)

[Jesus Christ]

The last person I need doing My publicity is Rush Limpball's little brother. :jesuslol:

[Mushroom]

Thank God for Buddhists

[Jesus Christ]

You're welcome.

[sadaist]

The last person I need doing My publicity is Rush Limpball's little brother. :jesuslol:



If you weren't so damn spiteful, you wouldn't need publicity.

[Coyote]

Strong words in the title...

"What If"...

[BigBadBrian]

So true - there are many identical "messiah" stories that pre-date Jesus that have in some cases the EXACT same mythology - born of a virgin, healed the sick, hung out with 12 dudes, was executed and arose from the grave 3 days later...are we to believe he was a divine copycat? :umm:

You're a typical moonbat who believes everything you read on the Internet. The idea that Christianity is based on other ancient religions has been proven false by scholars for what it is...junk. Particularly the Christianity/Mithraism fable. Go to This site (http://www.fredsbibletalk.com/twentyways20.html) for just one small example of someone disputing your feeble argument.

[chefcraig]

The idea that Christianity is based on other ancient religions has been proven false by scholars for what it is...junk. Particularly the Christianity/Mithraism fable. Go to This site (http://www.fredsbibletalk.com/twentyways20.html) for just one small example of someone disputing your feeble argument.

I tend to disagree, Brian. If people can see parallels to their own beliefs inherent in a "new" religion being promoted, logically they will be far more willing to accept it. Therefore, it is suggestible that early Christian leaders would use myths from other religions to make converting easier and more acceptable. But somewhere along the line, what was originally the true essence of Christianity became subverted or distorted with the introduction of these myths to the story line. For instance, take the concept of the virgin birth, which can be directly attributed to the sun God Mithra, who also just happened to be born on December 25th. The subject of Baptism is another example. Although closely defined as part of the Christian ethos, the practice was described in The Iliad, which was written some 800 years before Christ showed up.

Yet when you get right down to it, who really cares? If the Bible holds truths for people, does it really matter if it is a work of fiction or not? Yes, it is a debatable point, but it merely establishes which side a person is on when speaking about it with any conviction. Those opposed to Christianity for various reasons are always going to point to it's origins as stated in the Bible, just as those that believe in it will use the same source to defend it. If anything, the situation creates a balanced argument, one in which neither side is going to change it's reasoning on. People would have better luck attempting to get others to change their allegiance to particular sports teams based not upon geography, but uniform color.

The issue with Christianity (and religion in general) isn't that it provides comfort and solace to it's believers. That is a given. The problems start when it is used as a device for people to inflict their will upon others. There is nothing quite as frightening to hear or read as the 5 word statement "With God On Our Side". I mean, c'mon...with that as a foundation for reasoning, you can not only justify, but get away with just about anything.

[jhale667]

You're a typical moonbat who believes everything you read on the Internet. The idea that Christianity is based on other ancient religions has been proven false by scholars for what it is...junk. Particularly the Christianity/Mithraism fable. Go to This site (http://www.fredsbibletalk.com/twentyways20.html) for just one small example of someone disputing your feeble argument.

You're the only one making "feeble arguments" Brie. It's not an "idea" - it's a fact. The resurrection story is NOT unique, or even the original one. You're the one believing bullshit off the Internet, stupid.

[kwame k]

You're a typical moonbat who believes everything you read on the Internet. The idea that Christianity is based on other ancient religions has been proven false by scholars for what it is...junk. Particularly the Christianity/Mithraism fable. Go to This site (http://www.fredsbibletalk.com/twentyways20.html) for just one small example of someone disputing your feeble argument.

Hate to break it to ya, Forrest but..............................Christianity is based on an older religion entirely and the books they used were from a people called the Jews. Christians were so impressed with those books they included it in their own Bible, it's called the Old Testament, jackass! So based on the Bible itself you have to concede that Christianity is based on an older religion.

Now where does the religion we call Christianity come from? Oddly enough the New Testament wasn't written in Christ's lifetime and the books that are included in the New Testament weren't even consolidated till Constantine commissioned 50 Bibles for the Church of Constantinople around 330 AD. Before that Constantine ordered the 1st Council of Nicaea which resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine...........the Creed of Nicaea.


We've been all over this in so many different threads here that I'm not going to go over all the facts we have proven before. The basic fact is Christianity is based on an older religion and you don't need the internet to realize that.......pick up a Bible and open it to the first book.

[BigBadBrian]

You're the only one making "feeble arguments" Brie. It's not an "idea" - it's a fact. The resurrection story is NOT unique, or even the original one. You're the one believing bullshit off the Internet, stupid.

Prove it, Mr Shortbus!

[BigBadBrian]

Hate to break it to ya, Forrest but..............................Christianity is based on an older religion entirely and the books they used were from a people called the Jews. Christians were so impressed with those books they included it in their own Bible, it's called the Old Testament, jackass! So based on the Bible itself you have to concede that Christianity is based on an older religion.

Now where does the religion we call Christianity come from? Oddly enough the New Testament wasn't written in Christ's lifetime and the books that are included in the New Testament weren't even consolidated till Constantine commissioned 50 Bibles for the Church of Constantinople around 330 AD. Before that Constantine ordered the 1st Council of Nicaea which resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine...........the Creed of Nicaea.


We've been all over this in so many different threads here that I'm not going to go over all the facts we have proven before. The basic fact is Christianity is based on an older religion and you don't need the internet to realize that.......pick up a Bible and open it to the first book.

Do you even know why the OLD TESTAMENT is included in the Christian Bible? Do you know how Christianity and Judaism differ? Hmm?

[kwame k]

Of course I do...........Do you know who altered the beliefs of the original Christians and allowed the Gentiles in, took away dietary restrictions and paved the way for Christianity as you know it?

It's all in the Book........try reading it sometimes and digging a little deeper into it's history and ultimately into what became Christianity.

You might come away better informed and not sound like a parrot devoid of independent thought.

[jhale667]

Prove it, Mr Shortbus!

Well, I would have (a dozen years of parochial school later, I can probably still kick your ass in a theological debate w/o breaking a sweat or consulting "reference material", and I'm not even "practicing" any longer, you simp!) but seems Kwame beat me to it. He left a shoe-print in your sorry ass that'll be there for some time! :baaa:

You are indeed a mental midget, Brie - arrogant, narrow (and small) minded, bigoted, judgmental, and about as far from "Christian" as it gets. Btw, congrats on that whole "you're going to hell" bit, zealot. :lol:

[jhale667]

Btw, BrainlessBitchBrian, there's a two-hour doc on YouTube (I'm not going to bother searching for at work, do your own research) that explains the parallels between Christianity, the Sun god and other religions throughout history. Find it, watch it, then STFU. Believe what you want, but don't show up here preaching your bullshit with ZERO to back it up and try telling the rest of us we're uniformed heathens.... ya douche!

[kwame k]

.......interestingly enough, the modern conception of Hell comes from a source other than The Bible. Some dude named Dante wrote a Divine Comedy :)

[chefcraig]

"Hell is other people." - Jean-Paul Sartre, No Exit

[kwame k]

"Hell is other people." - Jean-Paul Sartre, No Exit

"Hell is for Children". - Pat Benatar ;)

[jhale667]

.......interestingly enough, the modern conception of Hell comes from a source other than The Bible. Some dude named Dante wrote a Divine Comedy :)

I forgot...which level is specifically for douche-nozzles like Brie? :lmao:

[kwame k]

Several levels fit Forrest. 5, 6 and 8 loosely fit him ;)

[chefcraig]

Several levels fit Forrest. 5, 6 and 8 loosely fit him ;)

In a way, the whole levels thing is kind of reassuring to me. I never could get very far at Zelda, and Super Mario Brothers or Donkey Kong Country were a foregone conclusion.

[BigBadBrian]

Btw, BrainlessBitchBrian, there's a two-hour doc on YouTube (I'm not going to bother searching for at work, do your own research) that explains the parallels between Christianity, the Sun god and other religions throughout history. Find it, watch it, then STFU. Believe what you want, but don't show up here preaching your bullshit with ZERO to back it up and try telling the rest of us we're uniformed heathens.... ya douche!

A 2 hr doc on youtube....you are pathetic.

And you ARE an uninformed heathen. Deal with it. :biggrin:

[jhale667]

A 2 hr doc on youtube....you are pathetic.

And you ARE an uninformed heathen. Deal with it. :biggrin:

I know you are but what am I?

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQLZQKwTxmRjyI1OxKayZWw5Qai8LhAz 1XZx2g1AUOOCq57Os61TQ


Yes, juvenile responses are the only kind an idiot like you deserves. Deal with THAT. And while you're at it, figure out which level of hell you're going to, Forrest.

[kwame k]

A 2 hr doc on youtube....you are pathetic.

And you ARE an uninformed heathen. Deal with it. :biggrin:

Says the uninformed zealot..............

So Forrest, where did the NT originate from and was Christ a Reformist Jew or was He trying to create a new religion?

[ThrillsNSpills]

I got blistas on my fingas

[kwame k]

Stop going against God's will and he won't smite ye with blistas...................................

[jhale667]

I got blistas on my fingas

Have you gotten to the bottom and gone back to the top of the slide yet?

[FORD]

The issue with Christianity (and religion in general) isn't that it provides comfort and solace to it's believers. That is a given. The problems start when it is used as a device for people to inflict their will upon others. There is nothing quite as frightening to hear or read as the 5 word statement "With God On Our Side". I mean, c'mon...with that as a foundation for reasoning, you can not only justify, but get away with just about anything.

So sayeth the prophet Zimmerman.......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSuSWZUYHmg

[chefcraig]

I got blistas on my fingas


Have you gotten to the bottom and gone back to the top of the slide yet?

My Fat Baby Loves To Eat!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzcT40e762o&feature=related

[ThrillsNSpills]

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mWUptVHNfvw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mWUptVHNfvw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

depending on which book you were using at the time.....

[ThrillsNSpills]

Have you gotten to the bottom and gone back to the top of the slide yet?

You know you got problems when you listen to Revolution 9 and it makes sense.

[Seshmeister]

David Limbaugh
Link (http://townhall.com/columnists/DavidLimbaugh/2010/12/28/what_if_the_bible_really_is_true_part_ii/page/full/)

I'd like to challenge you to consider that the "good news" we celebrate during the Christmas season really is true.

You may choose to believe the Bible is merely a book of fables with nice moral lessons, but there is more abundant and accurate manuscript evidence for the New Testament than any other book from antiquity.

This is very funny.

You would think after making this point at the start of this very silly article the guy would then at some point give a single bit of this 'abundant and accurate evidence'. :biggrin:

What is it about religion that switches peoples brains off?

[jhale667]

What is it about religion that switches peoples brains off?

Doesn't help that at a very early age, questioning it is severely discouraged...I remember questioning/challenging the logic behind something in religion class as a 2nd or 3rd grader and a nun yelling at me telling me I was a "bad christian" and likely "going to hell for even THINKING such thoughts". That's some pretty heavy shit to lay on a 7 or 8 yr old kid....but they attempt to indoctrinate you early that you should NEVER, EVER question anything they say, no matter how ridiculous it sounds...after all, THEY'RE getting their info via "divine" channels, right? It's literally like the old military mantra "Ours is not to question why, ours is but to do and die". Even as I kid I thought that was messed up.

And how weird is that anyway - the premise of a benevolent being granting us not only life, but free will as well as the ability to question and reason for ourselves - "BUT DON'T YOU DARE USE THOSE GIFTS I GAVE YOU TO QUESTION ME!" :umm:

[Seshmeister]

Check out this little short film, it's perfect. :)

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fDp7pkEcJVQ?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fDp7pkEcJVQ?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[Seshmeister]

If I had to single out one thing that played the greatest role in initially convincing me of the Bible's authenticity and the truth of Christianity, I'd choose the Old Testament prophecies, especially those concerning the Messiah. The specificity of some of the individual prophecies is powerfully probative, but the odds against so many of them being fulfilled in the person of Christ by coincidence are utterly breathtaking.


The stupidity of this argument is breathtaking. Watch as I repeat the incredible trick.

Chapter 1

And lo there will be born a Spaghetti Monster. He will be able to fly and he will have great noodley appendages. At some time in the future a great work will be written called Chapter 2 which will outline his birth.

Chapter 2

There was Flying Spaghetti Monster born with noodley appendages fulfulling the prophecy of Chapter 1. This proves Chapter 1 was right and Chapter 1 has now proved Chapter 2 was true.






Merry Xmas!

http://www.venganza.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/treetoptop1.jpg

[Kristy]

You're a typical moonbat who believes everything you read on the Internet.

First off why is "Internet" capitalized and second, for someone who copies and pastes just about everything you post here from the "Internet" maybe you should stop with your pseudo-intellectualism "feeble argument" attempts and just relish in your own irony.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

:popc1:

[Nitro Express]

I love it. A god you can eat. I like meatballs and that's an American thing and not an Italian thing so my question regards if God is Italian or American?

[Blaze]

The Internet standards community has historically differentiated between the Internet and an internet (or internetwork), the first being treated as a proper noun with a capital letter, and the latter as a common noun with lower-case first letter.

"Internet Capitalization Conventions." Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia. Web. 30 Dec. 2010. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_capitalization_conventions

capitalize Internet as a noun, but not as adjective (ex: "internet resources")
"MIT Libraries House Style." Staff Web: MIT Libraries. Web. 30 Dec. 2010. http://libstaff.mit.edu/publications/housestyle.html

IBM's TCP/IP Tutorial and Technical Overview (ISBN 0-7384-2165-0)
The words internetwork and internet is [sic] simply a contraction of the phrase interconnected network. However, when written with a capital "I," the Internet refers to the worldwide set of interconnected networks. Hence, the Internet is an internet, but the reverse does not apply. The Internet is sometimes called the connected Internet.

See also

The Columbia Guide to Online Style: Second Edition; Janice R. Walker and Todd Taylor (ISBN: 978-0-231-13210-7)

5.1.4. The Principle of Standardization

Like citation style, then, document style must follow the principle of standardization, which requires that users all follow the same code so they can understand each other. If authors and readers are to use document style to support effective knowledge building, they must employ and understand the standards on which the codified style is based. Spelling and punctuation standards for the English language were strikingly nascent until the nineteenth and twentieth century.

[chefcraig]

I love it. A god you can eat. I like meatballs and that's an American thing and not an Italian thing so my question regards if God is Italian or American?

I thought the Chinese invented noodles? http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-confused-smileys-718.gif (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/skype-emoticons.html)

EDIT: Sure enough...Oldest noodles unearthed in China (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4335160.stm)

[ELVIS]

:popc1:

May I join you ??


:biggrin:

[PETE'S BROTHER]

May I join you ??


:biggrin:

yeah, but bring beer..:gulp:

[ThrillsNSpills]

May I join you ??


:biggrin:

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[PETE'S BROTHER]

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yes, t-n-s, you can tag along, the boat is plenty big..:tongue0011:

[chefcraig]

yeah, but bring beer..:gulp:



http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1418/gifloveu.gif (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/gifloveu.gif/)

[ELVIS]

http://blogs.citypages.com/food/anheuser%20busch%20beer.jpg


:elvis:

[ZahZoo]

If I had to single out one thing that played the greatest role in initially convincing me of the Bible's authenticity and the truth of Christianity, I'd choose the Old Testament prophecies, especially those concerning the Messiah. The specificity of some of the individual prophecies is powerfully probative, but the odds against so many of them being fulfilled in the person of Christ by coincidence are utterly breathtaking.



Sesh's spaghetti prophecies aside... These alleged "truths" get pretty murky in the old testament.

A few simple things that derail us off the path of truth enough to question several basic foundational constructs. The whole creationism story... the book of truth says God created all this stuff in 6 days and then took a day off for football and NASCAR.

Hmmmm... We've fairly accurately determined the universe is about 13.75 billion years old dating back to the big bang. Along with that good ole Earth
is about 4.54 billion years old. Since the universe continues to expand, clearly creation of everything still ain't done yet.

There's that little issue of the sun orbiting the Earth... which Christian headquarters tried to keep under wraps for hundreds of years, but finally gave in back in 1972 acknowledging what Galileo figured out in 1615, but cleared him of any wrong doing in 1616, just sequestered him and told him to shut the fuck up...

Just on those 2 examples alone, and given the pure wealth of historical records showing many, many human attempts at altering, witholding, destroying or rewriting many of the ancient writings the bible is allegedly based on. How can anyone with a small amount of intelligent forethought claim blindly on faith that all that has been carefully presented and packaged to suit the political whims of those in power the last 2-3000 years that his whole package is the end all of truth today in the 21st century..?

Sighting scriptures and alleged predictions that maybe came true if the story was accruately handed down without embellishment around the tribal campfire several hundreds of years... proves nothing. Most of the writings have little practical application to life beyond simple concepts of right and wrong... the rest is twisted to suit human arrogance and abuse given your slant on it all.

[FORD]

http://blogs.citypages.com/food/anheuser%20busch%20beer.jpg


:elvis:

How did so many shit beers get into one picture? Yeah, there's a few good ones in the middle, but the whole fucking front row is Anheuser-Busch swill. And why is there a can of "Monster" in the top row? That's not an alcoholic drink.

[chefcraig]

How did so many shit beers get into one picture? Yeah, there's a few good ones in the middle, but the whole fucking front row is Anheuser-Busch swill. And why is there a can of "Monster" in the top row? That's not an alcoholic drink.

Some of the ones near the top look like shampoo bottles. :confused13:

[FORD]

And in the top two rows it looks like SOBE drinks rebranded with the Obama campaign logo. What's up with that?

(Started drinking SOBE on occasion when they took the corn poison out and switched to sugar. Stopped drinking it when they switched to plastic bottles. :( )

[Little Texan]

How did so many shit beers get into one picture? Yeah, there's a few good ones in the middle, but the whole fucking front row is Anheuser-Busch swill. And why is there a can of "Monster" in the top row? That's not an alcoholic drink.

And O'Doul's center right, which the last time I checked was NA beer.

[Blaze]

http://blogs.citypages.com/food/anheuser%20busch%20beer.jpg


:elvis:

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll thank you for bringing dranks. Good of you to think of the one's that do not partake. .

Now please go with Pete's Brother to clean the bathroom, someone puked......:biggrin:

[FORD]

Now please go with Pete's Brother to clean the bathroom, someone puked......:biggrin:
After drinking all that shit beer, I'm not surprised.

[Kristy]

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"All Stones, all the time..."

[Hardrock69]

You're a typical moonbat who believes everything you read on the Internet. The idea that Christianity is based on other ancient religions has been proven false by scholars for what it is...junk.


:lmao:

No need for me to comment, other than to say Brian, do you have any idea how you have just painted yourself into a corner with that statement? With a "Dunce" cap on? :hee:

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll thank you for bringing dranks. Good of you to think of the one's that do not partake. .

Now please go with Pete's Brother to clean the bathroom, someone puked......:biggrin:

i ain't cleanin' up nothin'. can't jesus wave his hand and it goes away?

[FORD]

You expect the Son of God to clean up puke?? He's a carpenter, not a janitor.

[Seshmeister]

He can't be squeamish. Can you imagine some of the shit he has to watch being everywhere all the time watching over everyone?

[FORD]

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"All Stones, all the time..."

All Stones all the time I can deal with, but shit beer, I can't. Guess I won't be going to Leary's bar. :(

[PETE'S BROTHER]

5377
All Stones all the time I can deal with, but shit beer, I can't. Guess I won't be going to Leary's bar. :(

had a few of these new years day

[PETE'S BROTHER]

not the candle :hee:

[PETE'S BROTHER]

You expect the Son of God to clean up puke?? He's a carpenter, not a janitor.

who cleaned up the mess at the wedding when he watered down all that cheap wine? and fuck that anyways, elvis brought the alcohol, he can clean.

[Blaze]

You know.... How Jesus' parties, err assemblies, were cleaned is a very interesting research question. And one that could provide another way to research his movements through Roman areas. :umm: I am sure someone has already thought of it and used that as a means of locating and documenting his movement.

Sounds like you guys may need to bribe Jesus. :biggrin: Have you tried prayer? :hitch:

[PETE'S BROTHER]

:biggrin: Have you tried weed? :hitch:

daily :baaa:

[FORD]

who cleaned up the mess at the wedding when he watered down all that cheap wine? and fuck that anyways, elvis brought the alcohol, he can clean.

Jesus didn't make cheap wine. It was top of the line Kosher, Organic, and sulfite-free. So no impurities there to cause puking or hangovers.

But I agree, Elvis should have to clean up the mess if he brought the shit beer.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Jesus didn't make cheap wine. It was top of the line Kosher, Organic, and sulfite-free. So no impurities there to cause puking or hangovers.

.

chapter and verse, please.....chapter and verse.. :biggrin:

[FORD]

chapter and verse, please.....chapter and verse.. :biggrin:

From the modern translation "The Message", so nobody gets hung up on the thous, shalts, and verilys......


John 2
From Water to Wine
1-3 Three days later there was a wedding in the village of Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there. Jesus and his disciples were guests also. When they started running low on wine at the wedding banquet, Jesus' mother told him, "They're just about out of wine."

4 Jesus said, "Is that any of our business, Mother—yours or mine? This isn't my time. Don't push me."

5 She went ahead anyway, telling the servants, "Whatever he tells you, do it."

6-7 Six stoneware water pots were there, used by the Jews for ritual washings. Each held twenty to thirty gallons. Jesus ordered the servants, "Fill the pots with water." And they filled them to the brim.

8 "Now fill your pitchers and take them to the host," Jesus said, and they did.

9-10 When the host tasted the water that had become wine (he didn't know what had just happened but the servants, of course, knew), he called out to the bridegroom,"Everybody I know begins with their finest wines and after the guests have had their fill brings in the cheap stuff. But you've saved the best till now!"

11 This act in Cana of Galilee was the first sign Jesus gave, the first glimpse of his glory. And his disciples believed in him.

12 After this he went down to Capernaum along with his mother, brothers, and disciples, and stayed several days.

[ELVIS]

I've heard quite a few fundamentalists try to say the wine was non-alcoholic...:biggrin:

[PETE'S BROTHER]

From the modern translation "The Message", so nobody gets hung up on the thous, shalts, and verilys......

:lmao: awesome

9-10 When the host tasted the water that had become wine (he didn't know what had just happened but the servants, of course, knew), he called out to the bridegroom,"Everybody I know begins with their finest wines and after the guests have had their fill brings in the cheap stuff. But you've saved the best till now!"


isn't it weird that at the end of the "bender" you could be drinkin' pabst thinkin' "this he-brew is the bomb!"? :barf:


6-7 Six stoneware water pots were there, used by the Jews for ritual washings. Each held twenty to thirty gallons. Jesus ordered the servants, "Fill the pots with water." And they filled them to the brim and added some pomegranite juice or some shit. :biggrin:

[FORD]

I've heard quite a few fundamentalists try to say the wine was non-alcoholic...:biggrin:

Yeah, I've known people like that. The Baptist church I grew up in used regular non-fermented grape juice for their communion services. And I worked with a newly saved fundamentalist black lady in a restaurant who was suddenly convinced that she would go to Hell if she even served alcohol to paying customers. This of course became problematic when she and I were the only ones working, as I was under 21 at the time. I told her God would forgive her, but the Washington State Liquor Control Board wouldn't forgive me. And besides, Jesus drank wine, so how could she object to the "blood of Christ"?

She continued to insist it was just grape juice. I reminded her that these people lived in the desert with no refrigeration, and therefore, "grape juice" wasn't going to stay juice for very long.

[ELVIS]

~Ha!~


:biggrin:

[PETE'S BROTHER]

the "christian reformed" church and "lutheran" grade school i went to both used grape juice as well

[jhale667]

the "christian reformed" church and "lutheran" grade school i went to both used grape juice as well

Pretty sure the Catholic school I attended used grape juice for the "kiddie-only" masses, but I can remember when I was an altar boy they always had gallons of Port on hand for the regular services...

[Hardrock69]

Here is something many Christian idiots are not aware of. The only reason the servants would come to Jesus to ask him about the wine supply at a wedding party back then would have been if he was in charge of the party, because it was HIS wedding. If it had been someone else's wedding, they would not have come to him to ask about such a thing, they would have gone to the bridegroom to ask him.

Your average moronic zealot knows nothing about the culture or customs of that area at that time (early First Century BCE). They only foam at the mouth when discussing all the 'miracles' Jebus performed, but, not being intellectuals, they miss entirely anything else to do with that storytale.

[Diamondjimi]

Pretty sure the Catholic school I attended used grape juice for the "kiddie-only" masses, but I can remember when I was an altar boy they always had gallons of Port on hand for the regular services...

You realize that grape juice is a gateway juice... :biggrin:

[FORD]

Here is something many Christian idiots are not aware of. The only reason the servants would come to Jesus to ask him about the wine supply at a wedding party back then would have been if he was in charge of the party, because it was HIS wedding. If it had been someone else's wedding, they would not have come to him to ask about such a thing, they would have gone to the bridegroom to ask him.

Your average moronic zealot knows nothing about the culture or customs of that area at that time (early First Century BCE). They only foam at the mouth when discussing all the 'miracles' Jebus performed, but, not being intellectuals, they miss entirely anything else to do with that storytale.

The groom was supposedly one of JC's cousins, and his mom seemed to be running the party, so the servants might have been ordered by the groom to "do whatever Aunt Mary says" and from there, she told them to listen to JC, since she knew He would come through with the wine. If it had been JC's wedding, He probably wouldn't have been as hesitant to break out the miracle powers, since He would want to get through the show and on to the honeymoon.

[FORD]

**hiccup** :bottle:

[fifth element]

Yeah, I've known people like that. The Baptist church I grew up in used regular non-fermented grape juice for their communion services. And I worked with a newly saved fundamentalist black lady in a restaurant who was suddenly convinced that she would go to Hell if she even served alcohol to paying customers. This of course became problematic when she and I were the only ones working, as I was under 21 at the time. I told her God would forgive her, but the Washington State Liquor Control Board wouldn't forgive me. And besides, Jesus drank wine, so how could she object to the "blood of Christ"?

She continued to insist it was just grape juice. I reminded her that these people lived in the desert with no refrigeration, and therefore, "grape juice" wasn't going to stay juice for very long.


people do, however, simply insist on seeing things their own way at times, don't they...lol

[fifth element]

The groom was supposedly one of JC's cousins, and his mom seemed to be running the party, so the servants might have been ordered by the groom to "do whatever Aunt Mary says" and from there, she told them to listen to JC, since she knew He would come through with the wine. If it had been JC's wedding, He probably wouldn't have been as hesitant to break out the miracle powers, since He would want to get through the show and on to the honeymoon.

let's hear it for honeymoon's...lol :beers8:

[PETE'S BROTHER]

people do, however, simply insist on seeing things their own way at times, don't they...lol

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[fifth element]

LOL...i remember those commercials....lolol

[chefcraig]

Alma Sorrowbridge: I don't mind a bit of swearing, it's only natural, but I draw the line when you involve Jesus.
Arthur Bryant: Oh, please spare me the sanctimony. The Christian legend is an embarrassingly childish reiteration of hoary old vegetation myths, the simple impregnation-and-resurrection cycle of pagan tree gods. You should try one of the more complex, grown-up religions from the Far East for a while, rather than worrying over a bunch of ghost stories concocted by bored shepherds in tents. Wait until they confirm life on other planets, that'll mess up Christianity for you.
Alma Sorrowbridge: Shame on you, you wicked old man! Every time you blaspheme, an angel is stripped of it's wings.
Arthur Bryant: A good job, too. Sanctimonious bloody things drifting about with their harps, ticking people off all the time like feathered traffic wardens.
Alma Sorrowbridge: I don't think you'll ever get into Heaven.
Arthur Bryant: The only reason why people need to believe in an afterlife is because they're fed up with this one.

Chapter 7, pgs 41-42 Bryant & May On The Loose - Christopher Fowler, 2009

[Hardrock69]

@ Ford:

Anything is possible. Just posting what the customs were back then. The person in charge of the wine was usually the groom.

Not a bad custom if you ask me. Though if it had been me, the servants would be coming to me saying " Master, we are almost out of hash!" and I would be replying "Go outside, dig up some dirt, and put it here on this table." :hee:

[fifth element]

to chefcraig:

so she doesn't mind being told that she's a "fucking bitch" as long as you dont say a "God damned fucking bitch"????


seriously though....she is a bit on the extreme side.....

[chefcraig]

to chefcraig:

so she doesn't mind being told that she's a "fucking bitch" as long as you dont say a "God damned fucking bitch"????


seriously though....she is a bit on the extreme side.....

Alma is the seventy something year old housekeeper of Arthur Bryant, and both live in a former toothbrush factory, which might help explain their dour demeanor. He and his partner John May are detectives with London's Peculiar Crimes Unit, a special branch of the police force in charge of crimes (usually murder) that fall into the category of unusually bizarre. Bryant and May are also in their seventies, and often avail themselves of illegal hiring practices by commissioning freelancers specializing in "alternative" areas such as psychic investigation, dowsing and on more than one occasion, witchcraft. Both detectives have been with the PCU since WWII, and their high success rate at solving these baffling crimes have kept them in demand beyond the mandatory retirement age.

I highly recommend the series, the eighth book of which is to be released soon.

[fifth element]

Alma is the seventy something year old housekeeper of Arthur Bryant, and both live in a former toothbrush factory, which might help explain their dour demeanor. He and his partner John May are detectives with London's Peculiar Crimes Unit, a special branch of the police force in charge of crimes (usually murder) that fall into the category of unusually bizarre. Bryant and May are also in their seventies, and often avail themselves of illegal hiring practices by commissioning freelancers specializing in "alternative" areas such as psychic investigation, dowsing and on more than one occasion, witchcraft. Both detectives have been with the PCU since WWII, and their high success rate at solving these baffling crimes have kept them in demand beyond the mandatory retirement age.

I highly recommend the series, the eighth book of which is to be released soon.

love to read...will read almost anything.....
so who is the author and the names of the books already out....I'll drive my library crazy tracking them all down for me.

See the author is Christopher Fowler....sorry, I'm slow....but still need names of books....and thanks!!

[chefcraig]

love to read...will read almost anything.....
so who is the author and the names of the books already out....I'll drive my library crazy tracking them all down for me.

See the author is Christopher Fowler....sorry, I'm slow....but still need names of books....and thanks!!

Here is a list of the books and their British publication dates. You can learn more about Fowler at his web site: ChristopherFowler.co.uk (http://www.christopherfowler.co.uk/blog/)

1. Full Dark House (2003)
2. The Water Room (2004)
3. Seventy-Seven Clocks (2005)
4. Ten Second Staircase (2006)
5. White Corridor (2007)
6. The Victoria Vanishes (2008)
7. Bryant and May on the Loose (2009)
8. Off the Rails (2010)

[fifth element]

tyty...will give me something to do since my hours have been slashed at work...

[PETE'S BROTHER]

You realize that grape juice is a gateway juice... :biggrin:

i always felt breast milk started the problem :boobs:

[PETE'S BROTHER]

i always felt breast; milk started the problem :boobs:

:hee:

[Seshmeister]

Alma is the seventy something year old housekeeper of Arthur Bryant, and both live in a former toothbrush factory, which might help explain their dour demeanor. He and his partner John May are detectives with London's Peculiar Crimes Unit, a special branch of the police force in charge of crimes (usually murder) that fall into the category of unusually bizarre. Bryant and May are also in their seventies, and often avail themselves of illegal hiring practices by commissioning freelancers specializing in "alternative" areas such as psychic investigation, dowsing and on more than one occasion, witchcraft.

Hmm it's maybe a bit rich to deride Christianity for it's lack of proof and then use dowsing and psychics which have been completely scientifically debunked a thousand times.

[chefcraig]

Hmm it's maybe a bit rich to deride Christianity for it's lack of proof and then use dowsing and psychics which have been completely scientifically debunked a thousand times.

The psychics and dowsers that are brought in are completely off their collective rockers and are usually useless, but for some reason inspire the detectives to go off on a tangent or look at things in another manner that sparks a new line of inquiry. So in effect, it isn't the methods or even the "results" these people bring in, it's more their personalities and karma.

[Hardrock69]

Personally I don't care how nutso one of these dowsers or psychics are as long as they can produce results and solve cases. But 9 times out of 10 they cannot.

[Seshmeister]

It's not as good as 9 times out of 10 unless the random chance is 9 out of 10.

[Nitro Express]

I think it's pointless to argue over the unprovable. The only people who have a vested interest whether Jesus was the real deal or not are church's who make money selling fear that you won't benefit from Jesus' atonement unless you invest in their approved by Jesus authority program.

Frankly who gives a rat's ass? Who care if it's real or not as long as some of the teachings make some sense. I like the golden rule and society would be better off if we all followed it. It can also solve some of these annoying religion problems. For example, if you don't like assholes hounding you over religion, don't hound other assholes with your religion. The golden rule would put an end to those annoying missionaries that knock on your door.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

I think it's pointless to argue over the unprovable.

on page three of the thread, ironic.:biggrin: we all must feel the same way :baaa:

[Nitro Express]

You can find some good in all religions. Now I have no interest in joining Islam but let's take a peek and see if there is anything I like. I do like the 72 virgin thing but I don't want to die to get them and why can't it be 72,000 virgins? How about if you kill someone you hate, you get 72,000 virgins in this life? Sounds good to me but the problem is the church can't deliver the goods here. They never can.

[Nitro Express]

Here's my two bits. I think this life is upper hell and we have managed to climb up through lower hell to get here. Why we are here is to learn truth from fiction and learn how to discern one from the other. Once you learn that all religion is bullshit you now find new freedom and have more money to spend on yourself. This bit on knowledge moves you into a more enjoyable existence free from church duty and guilt. Also you gain more knowledge being able to look at the universe as it is other than through a narrowly defined explanation cooked up by priests and monks.

[Seshmeister]

I'm ordering one of these t-shirts... :)

http://www.dougstanhope.com/storage/post-images/november-2010/DOAS_shirt_JClarge.png?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION= 1291514942187

[chefcraig]

I thought he was a carpenter?

[Nitro Express]

Shit. We should start doing that to salesmen again. I can't stand the fuckers.

[Nitro Express]

I thought he was a carpenter?

He was. He built crosses and sold them. He put on a demonstration on how the things were properly used. Jesus was the Ron Propiel of his day. They didn't have electricity so the salad shooter and chicken rotisery oven would have to wait 2000 years.

[Nitro Express]

See the whole story got fucked up. Jesus threw a sales meeting and dinner. Judas sold a cross for 30 pieces of silver. Jesus died in a product demonstration and Judas went and hung himself because he thought he lost his job. Then the other employees started rumors that Jesus came back to life and started making crosses again because the customers would only buy an official MADE BY JESUS cross.

[Seshmeister]

I thought he was a carpenter?

They can't even agree on that.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1263029/New-book-claims-Jesus-son-middle-class-architect.html

How can you pin down mythology?

[chefcraig]

They can't even agree on that.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1263029/New-book-claims-Jesus-son-middle-class-architect.html

How can you pin down mythology?

So, Christ was in effect either a general contractor or an architect. Terrific. In my experience, neither one knows which end of a hammer to swing. :duh:

[SunisinuS]

It is the Greek word for wine. No way they were talking about Grape Juice (Smuckers).

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[PETE'S BROTHER]

So, Christ was in effect either a general contractor or an architect. Terrific. In my experience, neither one knows which end of a hammer to swing. :duh:

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[chefcraig]

Oddly reminiscent of the old barrel of bricks on a pulley myth.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

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chimney scene cracks me up

[Hardrock69]

Brian could learn a thing or two from this kid! :biggrin:

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[Seshmeister]

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[Hardrock69]

So true. Can you say 'brainwash'?

Sure, I knew you could....

[Seshmeister]

So true. Can you say 'brainwash'?

Sure, I knew you could....

I changed my post because although true it was a bit too dark.

Early January is bad enough :)

[Blaze]

Not meaning to Necro post, however, I thought some might want to pass this on to other places.
Elvis seems to be real busy in LA ... :biggrin:

I didn't sign it because I think that creationism should be taught in schools. Not necessarily the creationism from the Bible, but the possibility of higher being that "introduced us" should be part of the theoretics. When addressing creationism all theories are as valid as others at this point, and many do fit within the scientific structure as is known today.

Now as for the not teaching climate change that is ... well Elvis has a lot of free time on his hands now that he is not educating us here. Besides, I want climate change so I can see my favored mountain ridge in the Pensacola Mountains. ;)
I can now see the valid reason of why certain posters should not be banned. :biggrin:

================================================== ========

Dear,

There's no such thing as evolution. There's no such thing as climate change. And that's the law.

Outrageous as it sounds, this is the situation that thousands of science teachers find themselves in as more and more states pass radical laws promoting the teaching of creationism and climate-change denial in public classrooms.

But in Louisiana, one high school senior is fighting back.

Zack Kopplin is just 17 years old, but he knows what's right: He wants his science teachers to teach him science, not religion. Zack is spearheading a campaign to repeal the Louisiana law that pushes science teachers to deny evolution and climate change.

Zack wrote a letter to the Louisiana state legislature, and 42 Nobel Prize winners have signed it, too. Now, he's asking you to join his fight on Change.org.

Zack's campaign is working: On April 15th, Louisiana State Senator Karen Carter Peterson introduced a bill to repeal the repeal the recent legislation, but Zack still needs help to keep the pressure up.

Please sign the petition today to tell the Louisiana legislature to let science teachers teach science:

http://www.change.org/petitions/tell-louisiana-to-teach-real-science-in-public-schools-not-creationism-and-climate-change-denial

Thanks for taking action,

- Patrick and the Change.org team

[jhale667]

Creationism has NO PLACE IN A SCIENCE CLASS. End of discussion. :mad:

[binnie]

It just baffles me, it really does.

There may very well be Truth in the Bible, but that Truth is not literal - most people who consider themselves Christian would surely admit that (at least in my experience.)

Teaching evolution and other scientific theory does not have to be an assault on faith - I have no idea why fundamentalists believe it to be so.

[jacksmar]

Not to throw so many too far but:

How old are you and why?

[Blaze]

Not to throw so many too far but:

How old are you and why?
That does not even make sense.
"Not to throw" what "too far"?


What you are trying to say is that a man and a woman "created" another.
No, they did not... well maybe in essence, but what occurs with a self-replicating species is 2 "compounds" of like substance take a part of each and combines that for the replication.

That is not the same as starting with base elements injected into an environmental compound that alters the environmental toward a certain known or predicted goal for whatever reasons.

In my opinion, we have not even established exactly what are life forms. It is arrogant to think what we consider life to be the only kind or what we consider intelligence to be the only kind.

Quite honestly we could simply be a part of the food chain of predator black holes. We as humans simply cannot see time in a "godly" fashion at this point.

If or if not certain one's, for whatever reason, retain a knowledge or a spirit essence after the removal of the kinetic force , is not reliant to, if or if not, a being Superior to us by chance or purpose inject us into this environment. Not to mention to what extent was the environment manufactured and what are those building blocks. Moreover, even if we are given this knowledge, we may not be able to place such to use. In addition we may never have the ability to conduct time in a fashion where such things could be put to use instead of merely existential.

[jhale667]

Not to throw so many too far but:

How old are you and why?

Anyone over the age of 4 that thinks creationism is "science" and therefore should be taught in SCIENCE CLASS probably still has a single digit IQ - like you. Hope that fact doesn't "throw you too far".

[Nitro Express]

If the bible is true the immoral majority are completely fucked and meek will inherit the earth after everyone else kills each other off or are consumed in the big ass fire Jesus cleanses the earth with. Maybe this is the global warming everyone is worried about.

[Nitro Express]

It just baffles me, it really does.

There may very well be Truth in the Bible, but that Truth is not literal - most people who consider themselves Christian would surely admit that (at least in my experience.)

Teaching evolution and other scientific theory does not have to be an assault on faith - I have no idea why fundamentalists believe it to be so.

They both are theories. Look at how much science changes over the years. We know less about this world than we know and only a fool would say they know it all. There is a lot of corruption in science as well. Scientists can be bought off like anyone else to further someone's agenda.

I think the safe place to be is to look at everything and not just pigeon hole yourself in one spot because the church, family, school, employer, or society said it's the way it is. More people need to think for themselves. I mean open up a science journal from 60 years ago and have a good laugh. Some of it will still be right on the money and a good share of it will be what in the hell were they thinking?

[Hardrock69]

The historical parts of the Bible ARE true. A lot of the people mentioned did exist. Not saying all of them, as there are a lot of parables (fables used to illustrate a point) in it.

Though the Four Gospels of the New Testament are the creation of anonymous authors, and at least 2 of them are simply derivatives of one of them.

There is much that should not be taken literally. The LOR-DUH! did not create the Universe, the Earth, Humans and all living things in 7 days and 7 nights. Anyone who truly believes that is a fucking retard.

Jebus did not magically come back to life after he died (whether on the cross or later). He is now a pile of bones somewhere in the Middle East.

[jacksmar]

Blaze,
All your points are valid.

How old are you and how it measured? What's the universal baseline? Is it accurate?

[Nitro Express]

One problem with anything that is written is it can be interpreted wrong. What does 7 days and 7 nights really mean? That's a measurement of time and time is relative to where you are. So is that seven days in God's time or seven days in earthly time and what rate was the earth rotating then? A day could be really fucking long compared to now. See you can come up with an explanation for anything or interpret how you want. The bible is the basic ingredients and people have cooked up all sorts of stuff from those basic ingredients. The bottom line really is what does if mean to you and what do you get from it? See this is where I hate everyone having to conform to one thing or another. I hate that shit. It always ends up empowering a few people at the top. I say believe what you want and don't push it on others. What turns the world to shit is people trying to force everyone into their way of reality instead of letting people just have their own experiences.

[jacksmar]

Hardrock you are correct. My question is was Jesus born 33 years prior to his death?

[Nitro Express]

You have these people that know everything there is to know about what would fill a thimble and are totally clueless on everything else. Then you have more generally informed people. We seem to fall into the trap just because someone is an expert in one small area well they are smart enough to know more about everything. The reality is everyone has their little piece of the universe and is probably right on some things. Then you have the control freaks who tend to migrate to finance, religion and politics (which if you look at all three they actually tend to be the same thing. People control technology) because of their mindset and they just can't stand people being empowered and thinking for themselves so they set up matrixes to contain the population in.

[Hardrock69]

Hardrock you are correct. My question is was Jesus born 33 years prior to his death?

Not if he lived past 33 AD. And there is just as much evidence that he survived the crucifixion or had a stand-in as there is evidence that he actually died that day.

And as for the creationism thang, the Pope recently stated that there is NO conflict between Religion and Science, as Science is the study of the physical Universe, which was created by God.

But then I have gone on and on and on about this rubbish. I shutteth mine piehole about it now.

[Diamondjimi]

Anyone over the age of 4 that thinks creationism is "science" and therefore should be taught in SCIENCE CLASS probably still has a single digit IQ - like you. Hope that fact doesn't "throw you too far".




There is much that should not be taken literally. The LOR-DUH! did not create the Universe, the Earth, Humans and all living things in 7 days and 7 nights. Anyone who truly believes that is a fucking retard.

Jebus did not magically come back to life after he died (whether on the cross or later). He is now a pile of bones somewhere in the Middle East.

:lol:


IMO, "God" is merely a concept, neither proven nor dispelled.....

[Nitro Express]

Not if he lived past 33 AD. And there is just as much evidence that he survived the crucifixion or had a stand-in as there is evidence that he actually died that day.

And as for the creationism thang, the Pope recently stated that there is NO conflict between Religion and Science, as Science is the study of the physical Universe, which was created by God.

But then I have gone on and on and on about this rubbish. I shutteth mine piehole about it now.

Science at it's best is nothing more than observation. It tends to be the most accurate in things that are easy to measure and repeat with constant results. Once you add in variables it becomes less accurate. Conventional science starts to fall apart when you get into geophysics because then you get into the space-time, time-space, and relativity aspect of the model. So what is true for a certain time or space may not be true for a different time and space. Like a photon. It's either a particle or a wave depending on the situation it's in. So when you start talking creationism and universes, you are in a whole different realm than just trying to make a physical observation here on planet earth.

[Nitro Express]

It always cracks me up when people say we need to save the planet when we actually know very little about the planet and can't even take care of ourselves yet.:biggrin: Then when they say we need to tax you more and regulate you more to save the planet and the people behind the science grants are energy companies, you go oh shit. This is like a new religion but instead of the great wrathful god getting angry unless I pay the priest some money we will all die if we don't pay our carbon taxes. I'm amazed at how many people who make fun of religion fall for the same shit when it's cloaked in the name of science. It's all about scaring people into giving you something. It's been practiced by con men for thousands of years. The biggest con men on the planet are energy executives and bankers. I don't think we are as sophisticated as we think we are.

I mean all this shit is driven by fear. The left and the right are both equally stupid. The right fear a manmade God and the left fear some cooked up save the planet shit. Con artists yank the chains of both but one side always thinks they are more enlightened than the other. It's just entertaining as hell to watch the ants argue as their whole society circles the drain. If anything, the universe is harsh on the stupid.

[jacksmar]

Not if he lived past 33 AD. And there is just as much evidence that he survived the crucifixion or had a stand-in as there is evidence that he actually died that day.

And as for the creationism thang, the Pope recently stated that there is NO conflict between Religion and Science, as Science is the study of the physical Universe, which was created by God.

But then I have gone on and on and on about this rubbish. I shutteth mine piehole about it now.

I really just wanted to stay on the time baseline. There are some important dates prior to 0(zero) like during the Babylonian invasion of Jerusalem in 586 BC The Ark of the Covenant disappeared from the Jewish Temple.

How's does someone or anyone determine 586 BC?

Hows does any comparative narrative of the original question miss the point when this what we see daily:

http://www.5newsonline.com/news/kfsm-three-people-arrested-after-babies-found-beaten-starved-20110316,0,2494650.story

Babies Starved and Beaten, Cling To Life In Little Rock Hospital

FORT SMITH, Ark. - Fort Smith investigators say a dozen dogs inside a north side home were well fed, but a baby they rescued was little more than skin and bones. Another infant showed signs of abuse.

We want to warn you that some of the photos with this story are very graphic and not appropriate for children.

Officers at the Fort Smith Police Department have seen many things, but this is one of the worst cases. Most of them have young children themselves, and this case challenged them to set their personal feelings aside and do their jobs as professionals.

“These children can't fend for themselves,” Captain Jarrard Copeland told 5NEWS.

Officers discovered two babies they say were severely neglected. One of them was grossly malnourished.

[jhale667]

And as for the creationism thang, the Pope recently stated that there is NO conflict between Religion and Science, as Science is the study of the physical Universe, which was created by God.


So that shuts up creationist catholics...does nothing for the inbred masses of baptist and other more fundaMENTAList sects that don't even believe catholics are "christians"...They'll still want that BS pawned off as fact.

And to Nyquil who stated evolution is also a theory...that may be true, but at least THAT theory has MOUNTAINS of evidence to support it, not a bunch of guys named Cletus goin' "Nuh-uh, the BIIIIIIIIAHBLE says so!"

[Nitro Express]

I hate to say it and I'm not a fan of it but some children would be better off if they were aborted.

[jhale667]

I hate to say it and I'm not a fan of it but some children would be better off if they were aborted.

Truth hurts.

[DONNIEP]

I just want to know if God can help Van Halen finish the new freaking record!!!!! I mean come on, if He made the whole universe in 6 days surely he can tell them to pick up the pace!

[Nitro Express]

So that shuts up creationist catholics...does nothing for the inbred masses of baptist and other more fundaMENTAList sects that don't even believe catholics are "christians"...They'll still want that BS pawned off as fact.

And to Nyquil who stated evolution is also a theory...that may be true, but at least THAT theory has MOUNTAINS of evidence to support it, not a bunch of guys named Cletus goin' "Nuh-uh, the BIIIIIIIIAHBLE says so!"

Yeah but you are stereotyping a group of people. This is not a new problem. When they were putting the US together the founding fathers couldn't agree on various issues so they decided to have the states have most the legal authority and just make the federal government in charge of foreign policy, interstate commerce, and national security.

What I'm getting at is we can't solve all these social differences on the national level because different groups in the country differ on so many things. So live in the area of the country you are most comfortable with. If you don't like baptists, don't live in the bible belt and if you don't like gays and liberals stay out of San Fransisco. Trying to make everyone equal to one standard just isn't going to work so we need to put the social issues back where they belong in the local governments and keep the federal government out of it.

This is a diverse country so live where you are the most comfortable.

Move where you want to live. I just don't get why people live in places they don't like to live for years. Sometimes you get stuck short-term for a job or school but long-term you have control to live where you want to live and you will be much more happier. It's easier to move than change they dynamic of the status quo of an area. If the majority of people think a certain way, you are stuck in that paradigm.

[Nitro Express]

I just want to know if God can help Van Halen finish the new freaking record!!!!! I mean come on, if He made the whole universe in 6 days surely he can tell them to pick up the pace!

Sadly God only helps those who help themselves. Do you really think Eddie and Alex can help themselves? I think God just said fuck it! I'm tired of babysitting you fucks. You are here to learn and all you do is sit around 5150 smoking cigarettes and being angry at the world.

[jhale667]

Yeah but you are stereotyping a group of people.


No, I merely stated the fact that there are those that do not consider the Pope the absolute authority as far as all things Christian (or even a Christian in the 1st place), so there will automatically be a bunch of other sects that will dismiss that statement outright. That's not stereotyping - again, that's a statement of FACT.

[Hardrock69]

Ark Of The Covenant disappearred in the 8th century BC actually.

[Jesus Christ]

I just want to know if God can help Van Halen finish the new freaking record!!!!! I mean come on, if He made the whole universe in 6 days surely he can tell them to pick up the pace!

Trust Me, We're trying! :jesuslol:

[Jesus Christ]

Not if he lived past 33 AD. And there is just as much evidence that he survived the crucifixion or had a stand-in as there is evidence that he actually died that day.



Don't be ridiculous, My son. :jesuslol:

[Nitro Express]

No, I merely stated the fact that there are those that do not consider the Pope the absolute authority as far as all things Christian (or even a Christian in the 1st place), so there will automatically be a bunch of other sects that will dismiss that statement outright. That's not stereotyping - again, that's a statement of FACT.

I didn't mean the recognition of the pope. I meant the stereotype that baptists in general are halfwitted, chicken screwing, cousin marrying, third grade educated, guys named Cletus. I had a boss at Hewlett-Packard that hated anyone from the south period. He was a San Fransisco Bay liberal. He would start going off on the whole stereotype shit and it just got old. If anything he was as bad as the people he was criticizing. And yes those southern accents sound half witted but there were some very good engineers and programmers out of the bible belt and yes some of them were active baptists. They probably would catch shit from the wife, and the family if they became anything else. Most people stay in the religion they were born into because they don't want to catch shit from the family or it's just easier to go with the flow. I really don't think most people think about their religion too deeply to be honest. It's more of a family/social matrix than actual belief.

[DONNIEP]

Hey, I have one of those half-witted southern accents! :biggrin:

I live in the south and was brought up in a Southern Baptist church. Most of the sterotypes are pretty close to the mark - Southern Baptists despise cursing, drinking (smoking's ok though), gambling, dancing and as recently as 25 years ago still frowned on pretty much all secular music. And man am I grateful for that - otherwise we wouldn't have drive-thru beer stores all over the place where you can grab your beer without running into your Sunday School teacher!

[binnie]

They both are theories. Look at how much science changes over the years. We know less about this world than we know and only a fool would say they know it all. There is a lot of corruption in science as well. Scientists can be bought off like anyone else to further someone's agenda.

I think the safe place to be is to look at everything and not just pigeon hole yourself in one spot because the church, family, school, employer, or society said it's the way it is. More people need to think for themselves. I mean open up a science journal from 60 years ago and have a good laugh. Some of it will still be right on the money and a good share of it will be what in the hell were they thinking?

They are both theories, true. However, one theory is based on empirical evidence and written by men and institutions who are prepared to modify their theories as evidence emerges.

The other is 2000 years old and based on the wisdom of agents.

It's like medicine: 100 years from now cancer care may have moved on dramatically from where we are now. But as it stands, if I was diagnosed with cancer I would follow the advice of a doctor rather than a faith healer: both have 'theories' about my cancer could be cured, but I know who my money would be on.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Hey, I have one of those half-witted southern accents! :biggrin:

I live in the south and was brought up in a Southern Baptist church. Most of the sterotypes are pretty close to the mark - Southern Baptists despise cursing, drinking (smoking's ok though), gambling, dancing and as recently as 25 years ago still frowned on pretty much all secular music. And man am I grateful for that - otherwise we wouldn't have drive-thru beer stores all over the place where you can grab your beer without running into your Sunday School teacher!

thank god for kevin bacon...

[Seshmeister]

Science at it's best is nothing more than observation. It tends to be the most accurate in things that are easy to measure and repeat with constant results. Once you add in variables it becomes less accurate. Conventional science starts to fall apart when you get into geophysics because then you get into the space-time, time-space, and relativity aspect of the model. So what is true for a certain time or space may not be true for a different time and space. Like a photon. It's either a particle or a wave depending on the situation it's in. So when you start talking creationism and universes, you are in a whole different realm than just trying to make a physical observation here on planet earth.

You are completely ignorant of science. Just fucking clueless. Most people that know fuck all about something either don't talk about it or better go read up on it. You try and give lectures on stuff you know almost zero about. Will you please stop and go read a fucking book or something.

How about you start with something about geophysics which according to you science can't explain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophysics

Jesus...

[PETE'S BROTHER]

he left

[Seshmeister]

One problem with anything that is written is it can be interpreted wrong. What does 7 days and 7 nights really mean? That's a measurement of time and time is relative to where you are.

One of the problems with the 'each day in Genesis' is an age is that even if that were true what he does in each 'day/age' is still fucking senseless.

[Nitro Express]

You are completely ignorant of science. Just fucking clueless. Most people that know fuck all about something either don't talk about it or better go read up on it. You try and give lectures on stuff you know almost zero about. Will you please stop and go read a fucking book or something.

How about you start with something about geophysics which according to you science can't explain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophysics

Jesus...

Exactly what area of science are we talking about? Life is too short to read up on all of it. You talk about science in such general terms. May I ask what your scientific background is? I took physics and organic chemistry in college and got good grades in both. My degree is in international finance with a minor in statistics. From that I leaned you can lie real good with numbers and make people think it's real which of course governments and other organizations do all the time including in things like scientific studies you seem to put so much faith in. Much like the financial institutions people used to trust. So much for those AM Best AAA ratings on companies that failed and had to be bailed out.

I would say in this day and age be very wary of trusting any data. There seems to be a trend of tainting it to enrich whoever is providing the grant money.

[Nitro Express]

They are both theories, true. However, one theory is based on empirical evidence and written by men and institutions who are prepared to modify their theories as evidence emerges.

The other is 2000 years old and based on the wisdom of agents.

It's like medicine: 100 years from now cancer care may have moved on dramatically from where we are now. But as it stands, if I was diagnosed with cancer I would follow the advice of a doctor rather than a faith healer: both have 'theories' about my cancer could be cured, but I know who my money would be on.

Looking at what the industry charges for medicine and care it's all about money more than helping anyone. So you are back to making an informed decision yourself on who to trust basically. It's amazing all the different opinions you get from various doctors. At the end of the day you have to choose someone's advice.

[Nitro Express]

But here's some reading for you Sesh.:biggrin:

http://www.amazon.com/Science-God-Convergence-Scientific-Biblical/dp/076790303X

[Seshmeister]

Exactly what area of science are we talking about? Life is too short to read up on all of it. You talk about science in such general terms. May I ask what your scientific background is? I took physics and organic chemistry in college and got good grades in both. My degree is in international finance with a minor in statistics. From that I leaned you can lie real good with numbers and make people think it's real which of course governments and other organizations do all the time including in things like scientific studies you seem to put so much faith in. Much like the financial institutions people used to trust. So much for those AM Best AAA ratings on companies that failed and had to be bailed out.

I would say in this day and age be very wary of trusting any data. There seems to be a trend of tainting it to enrich whoever is providing the grant money.

You write about 4000 words a day on finance here mainly the same thing again and again but fine knock yourself out.

It's bullshit however for you to confuse the manipulation of data with the scientific method and evidence based thought. Your hypothesis seems to be everyone is lying so I'll just make up whatever I want and that is equally true. Well it isn't.

The reason I'm complaining today in particular is you say geophysics is beyond science. I think maybe you were mixing geophysics with string theory or something or maybe not?

When you go onto science it becomes a mixture of the odd random half truth like light is a wave and a particle and then crazy illogical suppositions.

Same goes for your earlier non argument about how no one knew anything 60 years ago so they know nothing now. That is just BS on every level. Back up your crazy thoughts with some sort of logic or examples or something.

[Seshmeister]

But here's some reading for you Sesh.:biggrin:

http://www.amazon.com/Science-God-Convergence-Scientific-Biblical/dp/076790303X

Wow.

What a fucking idiot.

I'm amazed at the ridiculous mental gymnastics these people attempt.

[Nitro Express]

This facility in Washington state is interesting. I visited it last year. They are actually trying to measure ripples in space time. There are two more. One in Puerto Rico and one in Australia.

http://www.ligo-wa.caltech.edu/

[Blaze]

While were talking about unprovable theories, questionable science, descriptive qualities of God and while Nick is asking me to STFU I guess because of my theories of how to reduce war.

I think the many holy books are a historical event of eons. I think time lines where smashed together into the "word of God" that the word of God is a collective memory of time and space. Theory keep in mind.

I think we have been totally destroyed as a advanced civilization many times before, but at least once. Scattered to the four corners, or rather there were pockets of survivors in locations, maybe just one location but I doubt that because there is too much migration patterns of ancient man. I think we do not have record of this with the exception of the collective memory because like today most things would be gone in a few eons. That if there were only pockets of humans left in a few locations we would loose much of our brain trust in a few generations by shear survival.

Where and how we as self replicating being came to exist... that is still theory. Other than the fact , for the most part, have ears, eyes, nose, mouth, and what nots, we all are very different. There has been no real information on how we became so different. Sure it is said that environment play a rule into it. However, if that was the baseline fact why did people that live close to water not grow useful items like webbed feet.

As for God, as humans, I do not think we are able to grasp conceptually God. God is beyond human reasoning, at this point. Moreover, if we ever can, we will no longer be human.

[Seshmeister]

This facility in Washington state is interesting. I visited it last year. They are actually trying to measure ripples in space time. There are two more. One in Puerto Rico and one in Australia.

http://www.ligo-wa.caltech.edu/

Sorry to sound cynical but it's only a matter of time before someone starts a thread on the space shuttle and you reply 'well when I flew Columbia...' :)

[Seshmeister]

While were talking about unprovable theories, questionable science, descriptive qualities of God and while Nick is asking me to STFU I guess because of my theories of how to reduce war.

I think the many holy books are a historical event of eons. I think time lines where smashed together into the "word of God" that the word of God is a collective memory of time and space. Theory keep in mind.

I think we have been totally destroyed as a advanced civilization many times before, but at least once. Scattered to the four corners, or rather there were pockets of survivors in locations, maybe just one location but I doubt that because there is too much migration patterns of ancient man. I think we do not have record of this with the exception of the collective memory because like today most things would be gone in a few eons. That if there were only pockets of humans left in a few locations we would loose much of our brain trust in a few generations by shear survival.

Where and how we as self replicating being came to exist... that is still theory. Other than the fact , for the most part, have ears, eyes, nose, mouth, and what nots, we all are very different. There has been no real information on how we became so different. Sure it is said that environment play a rule into it. However, if that was the baseline fact why did people that live close to water not grow useful items like webbed feet.

As for God, as humans, I do not think we are able to grasp conceptually God. God is beyond human reasoning, at this point. Moreover, if we ever can, we will no longer be human.

That's interesting but have you ever looked into the flying spaghetti monster?

[Blaze]

That's interesting but have you ever looked into the flying spaghetti monster?

Actually, I have. I did not memorize much of it however. :biggrin: It's it just a rework of the Bible?

[Dr. Love]

You clearly are not familiar with Captain Mosey and the 8 I'd rather you didn'ts.

[hambon4lif]

That's interesting but have you ever looked into the flying spaghetti monster?:lmao:

I almost forgot the fact that Sesh is a Pastafarian.

[Blaze]

You clearly are not familiar with Captain Mosey and the 8 I'd rather you didn'ts.

to test Pastafarians' faith—parodying certain biblical literalists.

^ a b c Van Horn, Gavin; Lucas Johnston (2007). "Evolutionary Controversy and a Side of Pasta: The Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Subversive Function of Religious Parody". GOLEM: Journal of Religion and Monsters 2 (1). Retrieved 2009-12-19.:tongue0011:

[sadaist]

:lmao:

I almost forgot the fact that Sesh is a Pastafarian.


Does that mean he worships this guy?



http://www.pennypinchinmom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/chef-boyardee-logo.jpg

[FORD]

Chef Boyardee would probably be the Antispaghettimonster. If you have eaten his crappy products, you know why.....

[Nitro Express]

Chef Boyardee would probably be the Antispaghettimonster. If you have eaten his crappy products, you know why.....

Some cable food show did a documentary on Chef Boyardee. He was an actual person but they changed the spelling on his real Italian name to be more easy to pronounce. During WWI the US military was looking for high carbohydrate rations. Chef Boyardee convinced them he could can spaghetti and the soldiers would enjoy it. He got the contract and spaghetti in a can was born. Before that the only people who ate spaghetti in the US were the Italian immigrants. The soldiers liked the spaghetti rations so much they continued to eat it when they got home and a new staple food was born. The Boyardee came out with his boxed spaghetti.

That being said all the Italians I know would beat you silly for serving the shit at dinner.:biggrin:

[Nitro Express]

My question is how many wives does the spaghetti monster have? Also, if we are born in god's image how come we don't look like spaghetti? Also, do I have to wear spaghetti underwear to get into the spaghetti kingdom?

[sadaist]

Chef Boyardee would probably be the Antispaghettimonster. If you have eaten his crappy products, you know why.....


Well. I liked it as a kid. I tolerate it as an adult. It makes for a really cheap & fast meal so I always have a can or 2 of raviolis in the house. I've eaten much worse. Get them on sale and it's not a bad thing for $1.

[Hardrock69]

I'll be damned....never knew Chef Boyardee was a real dude. And if it were not for WWII, we would not have Spaghetti-Os, lol.

Eetsa BLASPHEEM-A!

[Hardrock69]

Been a good while since I have had REAL lasagne. I LOVE Italian food. When I was visiting London some years ago, my girlfriend and I went to some kickass Italian restaurante in Kensington (I think) and had it the REAL way, with real egg noodles and everything.

Was not that expensive.....amazingly, as we were served by a small army of waiters in tuxedos......and I looking like the usual rocker in my motorcycle jacket.

Mmmmmm....Italian....

[SunisinuS]

I'll be damned....never knew Chef Boyardee was a real dude. And if it were not for WWII, we would not have Spaghetti-Os, lol.

Eetsa BLASPHEEM-A!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorton%27s_of_Gloucester

[Nitro Express]

I don't think I had one bad meal in Italy.

[Hardrock69]

Does not surprise me. Food is the national pastime there. That, and drinking wine and fucking, lol. But then, those have been the national pastime for over 2,000 years, lol.

Someday I hope to be able to travel to Rome. Will have to win the lottery to be able to do so though.

[Nitro Express]

Rome is one of my favorite cities. The people are nice and it actually has kind of a small town vibe to it. It's fun to walk around at night or ride a Vespa around. I think it's more romantic than Paris. You could make some great deals before the lira was replaced by the euro. We pretty much bought out the Gucci store in those days and Italian leather was reasonable. Not now.

[Hardrock69]

Well, I would surely dig travelling there with a hot chick! :D

[Hardrock69]

Bet that fucking city is one HAUNTED motherfucking place, as much horror and violence has gone down there over the centuries.

[Nitro Express]

Bet that fucking city is one HAUNTED motherfucking place, as much horror and violence has gone down there over the centuries.

I never found it creepy or haunted. I've been to Rome several times once when I was pretty young. There were all sorts of stray cats that would roam around the old Roman ruins of the forum. So it was playing with stray cats and not creepy ghosts of Nero or Caligula or their many victims running around.

I think all this ghost business is just people's minds playing games on them. When I was in college I worked nights at a funeral home and had to close up at night. I never saw anything. One time the eye lid stays on a corpse slipped and his eye popped open. That scared me. That happened once at a viewing and people thought the person was alive. they put these plastic velcro things under the eye lids to keep them closed. Dead people pretty much don't cause too much trouble but if you let your mind get psyched out on all that stuff in movies and on television then you will feel and see all sorts of shit. It's mind games.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

I never found it creepy or haunted. I've been to Rome several times once when I was pretty young.

:headlights:

[hideyoursheep]

A copy/paste thread....started by Brian....that exposes his own hypocrisy....


:deadhorse:

You'd better HOPE the Bible isn't true, brian....or you'll be bunking with UBL. :lmao:

[binnie]

Looking at what the industry charges for medicine and care it's all about money more than helping anyone. So you are back to making an informed decision yourself on who to trust basically. It's amazing all the different opinions you get from various doctors. At the end of the day you have to choose someone's advice.

Yes, you may very well get different opinions from different doctors. But the fact stands that they are DOCTORS. If I had 2 opinions from 2 different doctors, and opinion from the little old lady down the road and an opinion from my car mechanic, all of those opinions would not be equally valid.

[binnie]

Bet that fucking city is one HAUNTED motherfucking place, as much horror and violence has gone down there over the centuries.

Rome is actually one of the most beautiful places in the world. Pretty awe-inspiring, actually.

[Satan]

You'd better HOPE the Bible isn't true, brian....or you'll be bunking with UBL. :lmao:

Nah, probably not. Osama's a permanent resident of the BCE wing of Hell, a very special realm of eternal torment. Brian may be one of the BCE's biggest fans, but I doubt he's on their payroll. http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

[Nitro Express]

Rome is actually one of the most beautiful places in the world. Pretty awe-inspiring, actually.

What I like about it is the new is mixed with the old in this wonderful hodgepodge. It really is the eternal city and is very unique. Hot summer days but the nights are wonderful there. It's a great summer night city.

[fifth element]

definitely a place that i would like to visit one day.

[Hardrock69]

Hey Nitro, perhaps you have never experienced any paranormal activity, but I have. And there are numerous reports by people who work guarding the ruins of the Colosseum at night where they say they have heard a lot of strange shit when nobody else was around.

[Blaze]

She wants to travel to Rome to do it on the dome.
She is going to call St. Peter, St. Peter
Then he is going to eat 'er
The pope will go ballistic.
When the Eagle lands.
Oh Michael Michael, the poor pope says
Lord have mercy ole Michael is dead.


Then then she is going to the dome.
Lord Lord the papal guards
There with the rapier penetrated.
Into the lung to take the breath away.

Blood on the dome
Lord come home.

Oberst Ordered.
Pull your baton
bludgeon him!
Bludgeon him!

As they drown in the holy see.
It was always meant to be.
There is no nature here.
Mother Mary, Mother Mary.
Oh where was
Oh where was

Come with me, my love.
Let us swim in the deep Holy See
It is our destiny.

To this man she doth honor
To this man she doth honor

[Nitro Express]

Hey Nitro, perhaps you have never experienced any paranormal activity, but I have. And there are numerous reports by people who work guarding the ruins of the Colosseum at night where they say they have heard a lot of strange shit when nobody else was around.

I had a near death experience where I found myself out of my body feeling like a million bucks. I sort of did the Nikki Sixx thing but it was accute bronchitus instead of heroin. So I would be the first to admit we are more than just a physical body. That being said, I just haven't experienced a lot of this paranormal stuff people are always talking about. I think in many cases people kind of see what they want to see. Or the creepiness of a place kind of sikes people out. I know people who have had some scary experiences with Ouiji boards and stuff like that. I never messed around with that stuff.

[Nitro Express]

You can climb up to the top of St. Peter's dome. I did it. I thought the Vatican would be pretty regulated and closed but it was amazingly pretty open. You could wonder around in quite a few places there. One chick passed out and started going into a seizure and two Swiss guards in full garb came to the rescue. It was pretty damn funny to see these dudes in helmets, stripes, armor giving medical assistance. Then the guys in the blazers showed up.

[Hardrock69]

Further evidence the New Testament is a fraud:

http://freethoughtnation.com/contributing-writers/63-acharya-s/531-bible-scholar-new-testament-books-and-letters-bogus.html



Bible scholar: New Testament books and letters bogus

Monday, 16 May 2011 15:48

Some 80 years after lawyer Joseph Wheless wrote his classic Forgery in Christianity, it seems some - or at least one - mainstream scholars are catching up to the fact that the New Testament is not what it appears to be and what hundreds of millions have been taught around the world for the past 2,000 or so years.

Published in 1930, Wheless's work - which was a major influence on my own after I found it on a bookshelf some 20 years ago - essentially consists of quoting the authoritative Catholic Encyclopedia's admissions against interest about the New Testament books and epistles, as well as the writings of the early Church fathers. Although the Catholic Encyclopedia ("CE") does not go so far as to admit that Christianity itself is forged, its editors were fairly honest in their scholarly analyses of some of the individual texts. Obviously, in order to maintain the party line and their vocations, CE editors couldn't go so far as New Testament scholar Dr. Bart Ehrman has done in his new book Forged: Writing in the Name of God, but even he doesn't go as far as Wheless did, which was to call the entire gospel tale into question, including the very historicity of its main character, Jesus Christ.

Yet, Ehrman's hat in the ring of scholarship basically proving textual forgery is a step in the right direction. If one truly studies the literature from the Mythicist School beginning at the latest in the 18th century, one will find as much merit in it as in this "new" analysis of many New Testament texts as forged. It's just a very small step, really, when one realizes how much of the NT is bogus and how little credible, scientific evidence exists that the gospel tale actually took place when and where claimed or that its main characters were even "historical."

The Christ Conspiracy

[The Christ Conspiracy] In 1999, my mythicist book The Christ Conspiracy was published, detailing the same research, which, again, actually dates back several centuries, the reason the CE wrote about it. In Christ Con - which has been read by tens of thousands over the past decade+ since its release - I included a chapter entitled, "The Holy Forgery Mill," in which I stated (24):

From the very beginning of our quest to unravel the Christ conspiracy, we encounter suspicious territory, as we look back in time and discover that the real foundation of Christianity appears nothing like the image provided by the clergy and mainstream authorities.

I went on to describe the atmosphere of fraud that pervaded the founding of the Christian religion, including wholesale forgery of numerous texts, such as not only the "apocryphal" or noncanonical writings but also many of the canonical New Testament books themselves. I quoted Wheless (94) thus:

The gospels are all priestly forgeries over a century after their pretended dates.

I then proceeded to provide numerous proofs of this statement, as well as evidence showing that other canonical texts such as several "Pauline" epistles were known not to have emanated from the apostle's own hand, such as the three "Pastorals" or epistles to Timothy and Titus, as well as Hebrews. The supposed authorship of the books of Acts and Revelation is likewise highly questionable, despite claims to the contrary, as these texts also do not appear in the literary record until the last half of the second century, neither quoted nor noticed at all by any Christian or other writer before that time. I further included the opinion that the epistles of James, John and Peter were likewise bogus, appearing in the literary/historical record decades after their purported dates and so patently forged in the name of the apostles in order to give authority to doctrines and positions that did not even exist until the second century.

To reiterate, none of this scholarship is new; it's just the typical catch-up game being played by somewhat mainstream academics following on the heels of "radicals" and laymen, although many of the pioneers in this field of Bible criticism have been professional theologians and New Testament scholars, as my copious quoting reveals.

Since the publication of The Christ Conspiracy, I have written several more books with expanded scholarship demonstrating this contention concerning the forged books of the New Testament, including Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled, Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of The Christ and Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection. Needless to say, none of the points made by Ehrman is new to me and, while his details may differ, all of them can be found in my books, published years ago.

"There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good," says Ehrman

Ehrman's contention of rampant lying in antiquity is precisely correct, especially as concerns Christianity, a fact I demonstrate repeatedly in The Christ Conspiracy. Indeed, such fraud is the Christ conspiracy, extending not just to the Christian texts but also to the gospel tale itself, which is clearly based largely upon the myths and sayings of pre-Christian cultures such as the Greek, Roman, Egyptian, European and Indian. This latter contention I also demonstrate in my books and articles revealing numerous mythical motifs that were worked into the gospel story, along with Old Testament "messianic prophecies" that were used as blueprints in the creation of the Christ myth.

Needless to say, with all the heat I've taken over the past 15+ years online since I began publishing my mythicist articles, including and especially "The Origins of Christianity," which began this entire endeavor, it's good to see mainstream scholarship finally catching up and exposing the truth. Now, if professional scholars can just take that last little step onto the solid ground of recognizing the gospel story as fiction rather than history, we will all be better off.

Half of New Testament forged, Bible scholar says

A frail man sits in chains inside a dank, cold prison cell. He has escaped death before but now realizes that his execution is drawing near.

“I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come,” the man – the Apostle Paul - says in the Bible's 2 Timothy. “I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I have kept the faith.”

The passage is one of the most dramatic scenes in the New Testament. Paul, the most prolific New Testament author, is saying goodbye from a Roman prison cell before being beheaded. His goodbye veers from loneliness to defiance and, finally, to joy.

There's one just one problem - Paul didn't write those words. In fact, virtually half the New Testament was written by impostors taking on the names of apostles like Paul. At least according to Bart D. Ehrman, a renowned biblical scholar, who makes the charges in his new book “Forged.”

“There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good,” says Ehrman, an expert on ancient biblical manuscripts.In “Forged,” Ehrman claims that:

* At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries.

* The New Testament books attributed to Jesus' disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate.

* Many of the New Testament's forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.

Were Jesus' disciples 'illiterate peasants?'

Ehrman's book, like many of his previous ones, is already generating backlash. Ben Witherington, a New Testament scholar, has written a lengthy online critique of “Forged.”...

Will the real Paul stand up? Ehrman reserves most of his scrutiny for the writings of Paul, which make up the bulk of the New Testament. He says that only about half of the New Testament letters attributed to Paul – 7 of 13 - were actually written by him.

Paul's remaining books are forgeries, Ehrman says. His proof: inconsistencies in the language, choice of words and blatant contradiction in doctrine.

For example, Ehrman says the book of Ephesians doesn't conform to Paul's distinctive Greek writing style. He says Paul wrote in short, pointed sentences while Ephesians is full of long Greek sentences (the opening sentence of thanksgiving in Ephesians unfurls a sentence that winds through 12 verses, he says).

“There's nothing wrong with extremely long sentences in Greek; it just isn't the way Paul wrote. It's like Mark Twain and William Faulkner; they both wrote correctly, but you would never mistake the one for the other,” Ehrman writes.

The scholar also points to a famous passage in 1 Corinthians in which Paul is recorded as saying that women should be “silent” in churches and that “if they wish to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home.”

Only three chapters earlier, in the same book, Paul is urging women who pray and prophesy in church to cover their heads with veils, Ehrman says: “If they were allowed to speak in chapter 11, how could they be told not to speak in chapter 14?”

Why people forged

Forgers often did their work because they were trying to settle early church disputes, Ehrman says. The early church was embroiled in conflict - people argued over the treatment of women, leadership and relations between masters and slaves, he says.

“There was competition among different groups of Christians about what to believe and each of these groups wanted to have authority to back up their views,” he says. “If you were a nobody, you wouldn't sign your own name to your treatise. You would sign Peter or John.”

So people claiming to be Peter and John - and all sorts of people who claimed to know Jesus - went into publishing overdrive. Ehrman estimates that there were about 100 forgeries created in the name of Jesus' inner-circle during the first four centuries of the church.

Witherington concedes that fabrications and forgeries floated around the earliest Christian communities....

Ehrman, of course, has another point of view. “Forged” will help people accept something that it took him a long time to accept, says the author, a former fundamentalist who is now an agnostic.

The New Testament wasn't written by the finger of God, he says – it has human fingerprints all over its pages.

“I'm not saying people should throw it out or it's not theologically fruitful,” Ehrman says. “I'm saying that by realizing it contains so many forgeries, it shows that it's a very human book, down to the fact that some authors lied about who they were.”

[chefcraig]

Stephen Hawking: Heaven is "a fairy story"

CBS NEWS (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20063168-503543.html)

Physicist Stephen Hawking believes there is no afterlife, and that the concept of heaven is a "fairy story" for people who fear death.

In an interview published in the Guardian, Hawking - author of the bestselling "A Brief History of Time" - said that when the brain ceases to function, that's it.

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail," he told the Guardian's Ian Sample. "There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."

Hawking, 69, who has survived for nearly five decades with a motor neurone disease that doctors believed would kill him while he was still in his early 20s, said he does not fear death. He also said that having lived with the prospect of death from his incurable illness has ultimately led him to enjoy life more.

"I'm not afraid of death, but I'm in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first," he said.

Hawking was the target of criticism from religious circles when his most recent book, "The Grand Design," argued that there was no need for a creator to explain the universe's existence.

In the Guardian interview - conducted in advance of his lecture at this week's Google Zeitgeist meeting in London, where he will address the question: "Why are we here?" - Hawking rejects an afterlife and emphasizes the need for people to realize their full potential on Earth.

When asked what is the value of knowing why are we here, Hawking replied, "The universe is governed by science. But science tells us that we can't solve the equations, directly in the abstract. We need to use the effective theory of Darwinian natural selection of those societies most likely to survive. We assign them higher value."

When asked what he found most beautiful in science, Hawking said, "Science is beautiful when it makes simple explanations of phenomena or connections between different observations. Examples include the double helix in biology, and the fundamental equations of physics."

Hawking said that our existence is down to pure chance, and that one's goal should be to "seek the greatest value of our action."

[Seshmeister]

Say for example there were some sort of spirit thing going on and that's what black matter was made up of.

Even if that were true how would it work if you died after having dementia for a few years? Over 50% of people over 85 have dementia of some sort.

That would mean unless some sort of magic ghostie or spaghetti monster stepped in taking you back in time then you would continue into eternity or the spirit world or whatever as an idiot hole. By that reasoning you would want to die young. In fact if you compare eternity to the short human life the only sensible thing to do would be to kill yourself right away in case your mind got damaged before death.

[chefcraig]

Say for example there were some sort of spirit thing going on and that's what black matter was made up of...
That would mean unless some sort of magic ghostie or spaghetti monster stepped in taking you back in time then you would continue into eternity or the spirit world or whatever as an idiot hole. By that reasoning you would want to die young. In fact if you compare eternity to the short human life the only sensible thing to do would be to kill yourself right away in case your mind got damaged before death.

Yet it is easier to believe that once dead, you get a fresh start in order to set right the generally absurd, fucked-up drama your life has become. Children do not have need of such devices, so only "adults" could want or need to come up with such a redemptive concept. In this way, if you are a drunkard, a pederast, an adulterer, an axe murderer or some other variant of less than wonderful yet totally irresponsible example of human behavior, you get an imagined free pass to set things right, a place where everyone loves you and all is jolly. This also helps those with a crippling sense of self doubt, so that their imagined flaws, including an unsightly zit in the middle of their foreheads, will magically disappear and everything will be just as it is supposed to be. Whatever the fuck that means.

[Seshmeister]

My kids are going through a strange phase where they don't believe in god but they do believe in the tooth fairy.

Theologically it's quite close to Scientology.

[chefcraig]

Yet the entire idea of religion comes from the idea of "redemption", a concept that, given even casual scrutiny, holds water like a fucking cheese-grater. Somewhere along the line, people get the notion that their life has become unjustly fractured, even though the laws of nature, science and good old fashioned common sense prove this not to be the case. Rather than accepting responsibility for their own actions, they decide that they have been wronged somehow, and set out to "put things right". As a result, we get Hollywood screenplays like Rocky, where a man feels the need to prove himself to people as a worthwhile human being, even though he has made some drastically bone-headed vocational choices in his lifetime.

It's just stupid. Rather than addressing the various flaws and correcting them in one's life, people expect a clean slate in the next one in order to start again fresh. It is highly unlikely that that one gets a reset button upon death, and to imagine one to exist is to reduce life itself to an online game of Space Invaders, where if you are losing, you simply shut the damned thing off and start over again. Such an expectation not only cheapens whatever the so-called afterlife might be (if there is one), it points out the inherently flawed thinking taking place in the current one.

[Seshmeister]

I'm seriously beginning to think that the world is run by clinical psychopaths but that is a whole other thread.

[Anonymous]

As a result, we get Hollywood screenplays like Rocky, where a man feels the need to prove himself to people as a worthwhile human being, even though he has made some drastically bone-headed vocational choices in his lifetime.

My memories of Rocky are of a man that, by chance, is given a chance to be in the spotlight. Instead, he chooses to go all out & seizes this opportunity as a means to turn his life around, even though, everyone tells him he should be grateful for just being given one match & leave it at that, 'cuz he's never gonna make it. But he does. Through sheer force of will & hard training, he gets himself ready to take every advantage of the opportunity he was given & at last, he succeeds.

So, I view Rocky not as a fairy tale, but as the story of a man who learned from his mistakes & does not squander this unlikely opportunity that was given to him so apparently late in his life.

It's been YEARS since I saw that film, though & I must've been a young teenager then. It's quite likely that it's very different from what I remember & I probably filled the memory gaps in the plot.

Well, if it isn't like I described, it SHOULD be. Now THERE'S a kickass film.


It's just stupid. Rather than addressing the various flaws and correcting them in one's life, people expect a clean slate in the next one in order to start again fresh.

Bingo. Hence the need for a higher power that will give 'em a next life, so they can just wait it out instead of living. It's the perfect excuse for having absolutely no responsibilities whatsoever.

Cheers! :bottle:

[Anonymous]

I'm seriously beginning to think that the world is run by clinical psychopaths but that is a whole other thread.

You'd be right. Why would people need power, otherwise?

For the pussy nit brings, I hear you reply.

Well, that's just it. Everyone who obsesses over power ends up being a paedophile.

And you'd have to be a clinical psychopath to lust for children.

Cheers! :bottle:

[Kristy]

Sorry to sound cynical but it's only a matter of time before someone starts a thread on the space shuttle and you reply 'well when I flew Columbia...' :)

I know. It's like he's seen, done, been and experienced everything.

[binnie]

The world isn't 'run' by anyone. Our lives are just the results of an impossible number of actions, reactions, motivations and events.

Some groups and indivduals make a bigger splash than others, for sure; but non-one is driving the bus.

[hambon4lif]

I know. It's like he's seen, done, been and experienced everything.Well....in a way, he has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mitty

[Seshmeister]

The world isn't 'run' by anyone. Our lives are just the results of an impossible number of actions, reactions, motivations and events.

Some groups and indivduals make a bigger splash than others, for sure; but non-one is driving the bus.

I agree but the thesis forming in my mind is that most of the many random people making the major decisions that affect us are psychopathic and that's exactly how they got the job.

When I say psychopathic I mean in the clinical sense of the word which is basically someone who has absolutely no empathy with other humans or conscience.

Estimates vary on the number of people like that but it could be around 1% so 600 000 in the UK alone.

That's more than enough to run the financial systems, government, estate agents, prisons, lawyers, traffic wardens and cops whilst leaving plenty to do the more traditional jobs like violent thug or burglar.

[binnie]

I agree but the thesis forming in my mind is that most of the many random people making the major decisions that affect us are psychopathic and that's exactly how they got the job.

When I say psychopathic I mean in the clinical sense of the word which is basically someone who has absolutely no empathy with other humans or conscience.

Estimates vary on the number of people like that but it could be around 1% so 600 000 in the UK alone.

That's more than enough to run the financial systems, government, estate agents, prisons, lawyers, traffic wardens and cops whilst leaving plenty to do the more traditional jobs like violent thug or burglar.

Errrrrrrm, that conspiracy theory doesn't seem any less deluded or irrational than the religions you deride. The world isn't out to get us.

I'm intrigued - and suspicious - by the idea that up to 1% of the population have zero empathy. That seems very unlikely - especially since most of the jobs in question need excellent communication skills and charisma.

There is undoubtedly something unique about people who become politicans, bankers, CEOs etc - an insatiable ambition, competitiveness and drive (not to mention considerable intelligence). Not sure whether that means they are 'psychotic' however.

[FORD]

When I say psychopathic I mean in the clinical sense of the word which is basically someone who has absolutely no empathy with other humans or conscience.


And that is the very root of this sickening Ayn Rand cult that is currently running the Koch Brothers/Teabagging/Paul Ryan/Scott Walker/John Kasich/Rick Snyder/Rick Scott/Rick Perry wing of the Republican party. Do any of the Tories in the UK Parliament openly admit to being Randtards??

[Anonymous]

need excellent communication skills and charisma.

You will find that the less you care about someone, the easier it is to communicate & captivate that person.

The fact that you have absolutely no feelings towards the person you're speaking to allows you to tell that person what it wants to hear, lie & manipulate effortlessly, 'cuz you don't give a fuck to what that person thinks about you and/or if it gets hurt by your lies & deceit.

Cheers! :bottle:

[binnie]

You will find that the less you care about someone, the easier it is to communicate & captivate that person.

The fact that you have absolutely no feelings towards the person you're speaking to allows you to tell that person what it wants to hear, lie & manipulate effortlessly, 'cuz you don't give a fuck to what that person thinks about you and/or if it gets hurt by your lies & deceit.

Cheers! :bottle:

The bodies in your basement need washing down before you go to bed.

[lesfunk]

If the Bible is really true, then I'm fucked.

[Anonymous]

The bodies in your basement need washing down before you go to bed.

Sure, I bring that to your attention & that makes me the evil one.

A slap in the face can be a lot more friendly than a pat on the back, Binnie.

Cheers! :bottle:

[binnie]

Sure, I bring that to your attention & that makes me the evil one.

A slap in the face can be a lot more friendly than a pat on the back, Binnie.

Cheers! :bottle:

'Jeremy spoke in class today.......'

[Anonymous]

Bah, you're hopeless.

You obviously would rather be mugged by a good-looking, well-mannered, honey-tongued thief, than to get a kick in the backside for walking around with a roll of bills in your hand.

Just another one in line...

Cheers! :bottle:

[binnie]

Don't listen to the voices, Sylicker, they are not you're friends.

Step awaaaaay from The White Album. Step awaaaaay.

[Nickdfresh]

My kids are going through a strange phase where they don't believe in god but they do believe in the tooth fairy.

Theologically it's quite close to Scientology.

Or Buddhism...

[Seshmeister]

Errrrrrrm, that conspiracy theory doesn't seem any less deluded or irrational than the religions you deride. The world isn't out to get us.

I'm intrigued - and suspicious - by the idea that up to 1% of the population have zero empathy. That seems very unlikely - especially since most of the jobs in question need excellent communication skills and charisma.

There is undoubtedly something unique about people who become politicans, bankers, CEOs etc - an insatiable ambition, competitiveness and drive (not to mention considerable intelligence). Not sure whether that means they are 'psychotic' however.

I didn't say psychotic I said psychopathic which is a different thing. Psychopathy is personality disorder characterized by an abnormal lack of empathy masked by an ability to appear outwardly normal.

It's not a conspiracy theory at all, in simpler terms think of it as more that the nice guy doesn't often get to the top of organisations. Having a lack of empathy doesn't stop you having excellent communication skills or charisma, in many ways quite the reverse.

I rarely pull figures out my ass, the figure seems to vary between 0.6% and 1% depending on definition.

http://roar.uel.ac.uk/jspui/handle/10552/660

http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/10/6/466


Your false comparison of this with criticism of invisible cloud daddies or people taking legends and myths literally isn't worth comment.

[Seshmeister]

I'll give you an example that I posted a while ago.

I think this is a demonstration of the actions of psychopaths. Again I'm talking about the disorder in it's clinical definition as opposed to the more commonly thought of Hollywood psychopath who eats your liver with fava beans.

It's not too long, I hope people will read it. It's from the Independent newspaper not some wacko blog.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-how-goldman-gambled-on-starvation-2016088.html



How Goldman gambled on starvation

Speculators set up a casino where the chips were the stomachs of millions. What does it say about our system that we can so casually inflict so much pain?

Friday, 2 July 2010

By now, you probably think your opinion of Goldman Sachs and its swarm of Wall Street allies has rock-bottomed at raw loathing. You're wrong. There's more. It turns out that the most destructive of all their recent acts has barely been discussed at all. Here's the rest. This is the story of how some of the richest people in the world – Goldman, Deutsche Bank, the traders at Merrill Lynch, and more – have caused the starvation of some of the poorest people in the world.

It starts with an apparent mystery. At the end of 2006, food prices across the world started to rise, suddenly and stratospherically. Within a year, the price of wheat had shot up by 80 per cent, maize by 90 per cent, rice by 320 per cent. In a global jolt of hunger, 200 million people – mostly children – couldn't afford to get food any more, and sank into malnutrition or starvation. There were riots in more than 30 countries, and at least one government was violently overthrown. Then, in spring 2008, prices just as mysteriously fell back to their previous level. Jean Ziegler, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food, calls it "a silent mass murder", entirely due to "man-made actions."

Earlier this year I was in Ethiopia, one of the worst-hit countries, and people there remember the food crisis as if they had been struck by a tsunami. "My children stopped growing," a woman my age called Abiba Getaneh, told me. "I felt like battery acid had been poured into my stomach as I starved. I took my two daughters out of school and got into debt. If it had gone on much longer, I think my baby would have died."

Most of the explanations we were given at the time have turned out to be false. It didn't happen because supply fell: the International Grain Council says global production of wheat actually increased during that period, for example. It isn't because demand grew either: as Professor Jayati Ghosh of the Centre for Economic Studies in New Delhi has shown, demand actually fell by 3 per cent. Other factors – like the rise of biofuels, and the spike in the oil price – made a contribution, but they aren't enough on their own to explain such a violent shift.

To understand the biggest cause, you have to plough through some concepts that will make your head ache – but not half as much as they made the poor world's stomachs ache.

For over a century, farmers in wealthy countries have been able to engage in a process where they protect themselves against risk. Farmer Giles can agree in January to sell his crop to a trader in August at a fixed price. If he has a great summer, he'll lose some cash, but if there's a lousy summer or the global price collapses, he'll do well from the deal. When this process was tightly regulated and only companies with a direct interest in the field could get involved, it worked.

Then, through the 1990s, Goldman Sachs and others lobbied hard and the regulations were abolished. Suddenly, these contracts were turned into "derivatives" that could be bought and sold among traders who had nothing to do with agriculture. A market in "food speculation" was born.

So Farmer Giles still agrees to sell his crop in advance to a trader for £10,000. But now, that contract can be sold on to speculators, who treat the contract itself as an object of potential wealth. Goldman Sachs can buy it and sell it on for £20,000 to Deutsche Bank, who sell it on for £30,000 to Merrill Lynch – and on and on until it seems to bear almost no relationship to Farmer Giles's crop at all.

If this seems mystifying, it is. John Lanchester, in his superb guide to the world of finance, Whoops! Why Everybody Owes Everyone and No One Can Pay, explains: "Finance, like other forms of human behaviour, underwent a change in the 20th century, a shift equivalent to the emergence of modernism in the arts – a break with common sense, a turn towards self-referentiality and abstraction and notions that couldn't be explained in workaday English." Poetry found its break with realism when T S Eliot wrote "The Wasteland". Finance found its Wasteland moment in the 1970s, when it began to be dominated by complex financial instruments that even the people selling them didn't fully understand.

So what has this got to do with the bread on Abiba's plate? Until deregulation, the price for food was set by the forces of supply and demand for food itself. (This was already deeply imperfect: it left a billion people hungry.) But after deregulation, it was no longer just a market in food. It became, at the same time, a market in food contracts based on theoretical future crops – and the speculators drove the price through the roof.

Here's how it happened. In 2006, financial speculators like Goldmans pulled out of the collapsing US real estate market. They reckoned food prices would stay steady or rise while the rest of the economy tanked, so they switched their funds there. Suddenly, the world's frightened investors stampeded on to this ground.

So while the supply and demand of food stayed pretty much the same, the supply and demand for derivatives based on food massively rose – which meant the all-rolled-into-one price shot up, and the starvation began. The bubble only burst in March 2008 when the situation got so bad in the US that the speculators had to slash their spending to cover their losses back home.

When I asked Merrill Lynch's spokesman to comment on the charge of causing mass hunger, he said: "Huh. I didn't know about that." He later emailed to say: "I am going to decline comment." Deutsche Bank also refused to comment. Goldman Sachs were more detailed, saying they sold their index in early 2007 and pointing out that "serious analyses ... have concluded index funds did not cause a bubble in commodity futures prices", offering as evidence a statement by the OECD.

How do we know this is wrong? As Professor Ghosh points out, some vital crops are not traded on the futures markets, including millet, cassava, and potatoes. Their price rose a little during this period – but only a fraction as much as the ones affected by speculation. Her research shows that speculation was "the main cause" of the rise.

So it has come to this. The world's wealthiest speculators set up a casino where the chips were the stomachs of hundreds of millions of innocent people. They gambled on increasing starvation, and won. Their Wasteland moment created a real wasteland. What does it say about our political and economic system that we can so casually inflict so much pain?

If we don't re-regulate, it is only a matter of time before this all happens again. How many people would it kill next time? The moves to restore the pre-1990s rules on commodities trading have been stunningly sluggish. In the US, the House has passed some regulation, but there are fears that the Senate – drenched in speculator-donations – may dilute it into meaninglessness. The EU is lagging far behind even this, while in Britain, where most of this "trade" takes place, advocacy groups are worried that David Cameron's government will block reform entirely to please his own friends and donors in the City.

Only one force can stop another speculation-starvation-bubble. The decent people in developed countries need to shout louder than the lobbyists from Goldman Sachs. The World Development Movement is launching a week of pressure this summer as crucial decisions on this are taken: text WDM to 82055 to find out what you can do.

The last time I spoke to her, Abiba said: "We can't go through that another time. Please – make sure they never, never do that to us again."

[Seshmeister]

More stuff on psychopathy by Borat's cousin. :)

No really. He's a professor at Cambridge.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-a-lack-of-empathy-is-the-root-of-all-evil-2262371.html


Why a lack of empathy is the root of all evil

From casual violence to genocide, acts of cruelty can be traced back to how the perpetrator identifies with other people, argues psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen. Is he right?


By Clint Witchalls
Tuesday, 5 April

Lucy Adeniji – an evangelical Christian and author of two books on childcare – trafficked two girls and a 21-year-old woman from Nigeria to work as slaves in her east London home. She made them toil for 21 hours a day and tortured them if they displeased her. The youngest girl was 11 years old.

Sentencing her to 11-and-a-half years in prison last month, Judge Simon Oliver said: "You are an evil woman. I have no doubt you have ruined these two girls' lives. They will suffer from the consequences of the behaviour you meted out to them for the rest of their lives."

Most people would probably agree with Judge Oliver's description of Adeniji as evil, but Simon Baron-Cohen, professor of developmental psychopathology at the University of Cambridge, would not be one of them. In his latest book, Zero Degrees of Empathy: A new theory of human cruelty, Baron-Cohen, argues that the term evil is unscientific and unhelpful. "Sometimes the term evil is used as a way to stop an inquiry," Baron-Cohen tells me. "'This person did it because they're evil' – as if that were an explanation."

Human cruelty has fascinated and puzzled Baron-Cohen since childhood. When he was seven years old, his father told him the Nazis had turned Jews into lampshades and soap. He also recounted the story of a woman he met who had her hands severed by Nazi doctors and sewn on opposite arms so the thumbs faced outwards. These images stuck in Simon's mind. He couldn't understand how one human could treat another with such cruelty. The explanation that the Nazis were simply evil didn't satisfy him. For Baron-Cohen, science provides a more satisfactory explanation for evil and that explanation is empathy – or rather, lack of empathy.

"Empathy is our ability to identify what someone else is thinking or feeling, and to respond to their thoughts and feelings with an appropriate emotion," writes Baron-Cohen. People who lack empathy see others as mere objects.

Empathy, like height, is a continuous variable, but for convenience, Baron-Cohen splits the continuum into six degrees – seven if you count zero empathy. Answering the empathy quotient (EQ) questionnaire, developed by Baron-Cohen and colleagues, will put you somewhere on the empathy bell curve. People with zero degrees of empathy will be at one end of the bell curve and those with six degrees of empathy at the other end.

Baron-Cohen provides vignettes of what a typical person with x-degrees of empathy would be like. We're told, for example, that a person with level two empathy (quite low) "blunders through life, saying all the wrong things (eg, 'You've put on weight!') or doing the wrong things (eg, invading another person's 'personal space')."

Being at the far ends of the bell curve (extremely high or extremely low empathy scores) is not necessarily pathological. It is possible to have zero degrees of empathy and not be a murderer, torturer or rapist, although you're unlikely to be any of these things if you are at the other end of the empathy spectrum – level six empathy.

"You could imagine someone who has low empathy yet somehow carves out a lifestyle for themselves where it doesn't impact on other people and it doesn't interfere with their everyday life," says Baron-Cohen.

"Let's take someone who's very gifted at physics and they're focused on doing physics. They might not be interacting very much with other people but they are interacting with the world of objects. They might have low empathy but it's not interfering. In that respect it's not pathological and they don't need a diagnosis. They have found a perfect fit between their mind and the lifestyle that they have."

Baron-Cohen doesn't see very high empathy as potentially debilitating. He sees someone with level six empathy as possessing a "natural intuition in tuning into how other are feeling".

I was intrigued to read a different account of empathy overdrive. In a recent newspaper article, Fiona Torrance described the hell of hyper- empathy. She has a rare condition known as mirror-touch synaesthesia. She first became aware of it aged six when she saw butcher birds hanging mice on a wire fence. "I felt the tug on my neck and spine; it was as if I was being hanged," Torrance recalled.

Empathy excess, however, is much rarer than empathy deficit. And while people with empathy excess suffer alone, those with empathy deficits cause others to suffer. Or at least some of them do.

At zero degrees of empathy are two distinct groups. Baron-Cohen calls them zero-negative and zero-positive. Zero-positives include people with autism or Asperger's syndrome. They have zero empathy but their "systemising" nature means they are drawn to patterns, regularity and consistency. As a result, they are likely to follow rules and regulations – the patterns of civic life.

Zero-negatives are the pathological group. These are people with borderline personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder. They are capable of inflicting physical and psychological harm on others and are unmoved by the plight of those they hurt. Baron-Cohen says people with these conditions all have one thing in common: zero empathy.

The question is: did people with these personality disorders lose their empathy or were they born that way?

One of Baron-Cohen's longitudinal studies – which began 10 years a – found that the more testosterone a foetus generates in the womb, the less empathy the child will have post- natally. In other words, there is a negative correlation between testosterone and empathy. It would appear the sex hormone is somehow involved in shaping the "empathy circuits" of the developing brain.

Given that testosterone is found in higher quantities in men than women, it may come as no surprise that men score lower on empathy than women. So there is a clear hormonal link to empathy. Another biological factor is genetics. Recent research by Baron-Cohen and colleagues found four genes associated with empathy – one sex steroid gene, one gene related to social-emotional behaviour and two associated with neural growth.

Does that mean, in the future, we will have gene-therapy to correct for low empathy?

"I'd be very concerned about those sorts of directions," Baron-Cohen says. "I mean, they are at least plausible from a science point of view, but whether they're desirable from a societal point of view is another matter. I would probably put more emphasis on early interventions – environmental interventions. I think empathy could be taught in schools for example."

The other side of the empathy coin is environment. John Bowlby, the British psychiatrist and psychoanalyst who developed "attachment theory", was the first to point out the lifelong impact of early neglect and abuse. "We think children are very robust, they'll somehow adapt," says Baron-Cohen, "but Bowlby showed that children who had what he called insecure attachment – a lack of opportunity to form a strong bond with a caregiver – are more at risk of delinquency and they're more at risk from a range of personality disorders, which I translate into a lack of empathy because many of the personality disorders, like the psychopath, or people with borderline personality disorder are just operating on a totally self- centred mode. Early attachment is one big risk factor for low empathy."

With functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scanners, it is possible to look at the effect hormones, genes and the environment have on the brain. In his book, Baron-Cohen identifies ten interconnected brain regions that are part of what he calls the "empathy circuit". People who score low on the empathy questionnaire show less neural activity in these brain regions.

Science is beginning to unravel the mystery of why some people have less empathy than others and the implications are potentially far reaching, not least for the criminal justice system. "The hallmark of a compassionate and civilised society is that we try to understand other people's actions, we don't try to simply condemn them," says Baron-Cohen.

"There is even a question about whether a person that commits an awful crime should be in a prison as opposed to a hospital."

But if someone endures a neglectful upbringing and they subsequently grow up to be a violent criminal, should they be absolved of any wrong doing because an fMRI scanner reveals low neural activity in their inferior frontal gyrus? "When people do commit crimes there may be determinants to their behaviour which are outside their control," says Baron-Cohen. "No one is responsible for their own genes."

Indeed, but we are all capable of making moral choices. Making the right choice may be more difficult for people with compromised empathy circuits, but the choice still exists.

Baron-Cohen wants to move the debate on the causes of evil "out of the realm of religion and into the realm of science", but I wonder if he is going beyond science and into other domains such as moral philosophy and jurisprudence.

"I don't see that we have to keep them apart," he says. "What I'm hoping is that the book will be seen as: how can science inform moral debates. It might even have relevance for politics and politicians, that when we try and resolve conflict, whether it's domestic conflict or international conflict, issues about empathy might actually be useful. The alternative is that science just does science and doesn't engage with moral issues or the real world. I think that would be a backward step."

If you consider the big atrocities in history – the ones we think of as evil – the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, the slave trade, communist purges, Rwandan genocide, apartheid, etc, it took the support of the masses to make them happen. Can we blame evil on this scale on psychopaths (who comprise less than one per cent of the population) and narcissists (also less than one per cent of the population)?

Surely beliefs are a much bigger cause of evil than biology or upbringing? Negative memes are spread by the church or state about the outgroup until they become thoroughly dehumanised. And the thing to restore humanity to the outgroup is not drugs and therapy but re-humanising narratives.

"Whatever your causes of loss of empathy, it's the very same empathy circuit that would be involved when you show empathy or fail to show empathy," says Baron-Cohen.

He argues that our beliefs can have an impact on the empathy circuit. Our level of empathy isn't necessarily fixed for all situations and right across our lives. It can fluctuate, depending on the situation. When people are tired or stressed they may show less empathy than when they're calm and rested. Baron-Cohen wants to differentiate transient changes to empathy, where empathy can be restored, versus more permanent changes.

"If for genetic reasons, for example, you have low empathy, it might be much harder to restore it but I remain optimistic even in those situations that there are therapeutic or educational methods that could be tried to improve anybody's empathy," he says.

So far, science has made little progress in treating empathy deficits. Psychopaths, for example, are notoriously untreatable as are children who present with callousness/unemotional (CU) trait. And trying to improve the empathy of sex offenders is one of the least effective interventions, according to Tom Fahy, professor of forensic mental health at the Institute of Psychiatry.

As someone who works with violent criminals, I wanted to know if Fahy thinks zero empathy is a good explanation for cruelty. "It may be one of the ingredients," he says, "but it's not usually an entirely satisfactory explanation for cruelty or acts of serious violence."

Narrowing the focus down to empathy when trying to prevent repeat behaviour is not a very effective approach, in Fahy's view. "It's difficult enough, anyway, to reduce offending behaviour through complex psychological interventions," says Fahy, "but to put all your eggs in one basket is undoubtedly a mistake."

Although zero degrees of empathy is necessary for someone to do evil, it is not sufficient to explain it. As Fahy says, there is usually a "complex tree of experiences" that leads to a violent or cruel act. Also, not everyone who has zero empathy will commit evil acts – Baron-Cohen devotes an entire chapter to extricate himself from this dilemma. Zero degrees of empathy requires too many qualifications to make it a satisfactory explanation for evil. And trying to boost empathy using therapy and other non-drug interventions doesn't appear to have much effect.

I wholly agree with Judge Oliver's description of Lucy Adeniji as evil. That doesn't mean I want to shut the conversation down. I think it's important to know – from a biological, psychological and societal point of view – how someone like Adeniji came to be cruel and uncaring, but I also think it's important to condemn her actions. I don't see the two things as being mutually exclusive.

I agree with Baron-Cohen that we shouldn't use evil as an explanation for why people do bad things, and finding ways to improve empathy, can't be a bad thing. But, for me, replacing the idea of evil with the idea of empathy-starvation is a simplification too far.

'Zero Degrees of Empathy: A new theory of human cruelty' is published by Allen Lane on 7 April (£20). To order a copy for the special price of £18 (free P&P) call Independent Books Direct on 08430 600 030, or visit www.independentbooksdirect.co.uk

[Seshmeister]

My memories of Rocky are of a man that, by chance, is given a chance to be in the spotlight. Instead, he chooses to go all out & seizes this opportunity as a means to turn his life around, even though, everyone tells him he should be grateful for just being given one match & leave it at that, 'cuz he's never gonna make it. But he does. Through sheer force of will & hard training, he gets himself ready to take every advantage of the opportunity he was given & at last, he succeeds.


I think that was maybe Rocky II, the first of the sequels.

By the 4th movie it certainly does become a fairytale where he is fighting giant Russian robots while being cheered on by a huge crowd of Russians who are won over by his amazing ability to be repeatedly punched in the face.

[Blaze]

How the earth is/was made will not affect most people's daily lives. Like wise, a faith that is wholesome is really a mute point.
Believing in an folklorist heaven, which provides motivation toward a wholesome life is not necessarily a bad thing.
Nevertheless, many are not able to gain a pious discipline. That does not mean a pious life should be disregarded.

[binnie]

I didn't say psychotic I said psychopathic which is a different thing. Psychopathy is personality disorder characterized by an abnormal lack of empathy masked by an ability to appear outwardly normal.

It's not a conspiracy theory at all, in simpler terms think of it as more that the nice guy doesn't often get to the top of organisations. Having a lack of empathy doesn't stop you having excellent communication skills or charisma, in many ways quite the reverse.

I rarely pull figures out my ass, the figure seems to vary between 0.6% and 1% depending on definition.

http://roar.uel.ac.uk/jspui/handle/10552/660

http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/10/6/466


Your false comparison of this with criticism of invisible cloud daddies or people taking legends and myths literally isn't worth comment.

Surely the ability to communicate effectively with people requires a sense of empathy? That is, giving people want they want requires you to understand that they want it and why....

I actually just looked up the definition of psychopath and realized I come pretty close. Surely, anyone is successful or driven pretty much fits the bill? A top sportsmen as much as a top politician or CEO? Really, isn't this just the case of the most able, dedicated and driven rising to the top? I'm not sure it makes the world a (more) dangerous place - in fact, I'd argue that the whole mentality is an outgrowth of the more aggressive forms of capitalism we've experienced since the '80s.

[Nitro Express]

More stuff on psychopathy by Borat's cousin. :)

No really. He's a professor at Cambridge.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-a-lack-of-empathy-is-the-root-of-all-evil-2262371.html

I just need a clean whore who's ass is tight like a little boy's and some vodka and that's therapy for me. Oh yes, please no vagins as loose as sleeve of wizard please.

[Nitro Express]

The interesting people are narcissists. They have zero empathy for anyone and love attention. They even love negative attention. In fact, they often will create a crisis just so they can have the attention of trying to fix the problem.

When Bernie Madoff got caught he just reveled in the attention. He loved every minute of it as the reporters followed him with that big smirk on his face. Then in prison he bragged about stealing tens of billions. He got a rush from successfully scamming people but he absolutely loved the attention that was on him after he got exposed.

[ashstralia]

Estimates vary on the number of people like that but it could be around 1% so 600 000 in the UK alone.

but maybe only a quarter of them are going postal at any time, or ever. i reckon that stat, per capita, hasn't changed for decades. don't quote me though...

[Seshmeister]

Surely the ability to communicate effectively with people requires a sense of empathy? That is, giving people want they want requires you to understand that they want it and why....


You can understand what people want without giving a flying fuck whether they get it or not. Think of a David Koresh type character.

Like most good ideas mine about psychopaths in power has been had before many times, I've been doing some reading.

e.g.

http://www.apbusinesscontacts.com/the_people_bulletin-pb_9/snakes.aspx

[chefcraig]

You can understand what people want without giving a flying fuck whether they get it or not. Think of a David Koresh type character.

Like most good ideas mine about psychopaths in power has been had before many times, I've been doing some reading.

e.g.

http://www.apbusinesscontacts.com/the_people_bulletin-pb_9/snakes.aspx

I think the more appropriate word for nutjobs in power would be "sociopath". These lunatics have many of the same personality traits as psychopaths, but they are manifested in a far more frightening way. Every so often, the rage, guilt or whatever it is that is being repressed uncorks like a volcano. Just look at that IMF chief Strauss-Kahn. To just about everyone, the guy seemed like a brilliant economist, as his education and career would seem to back this up. Still, there were rumblings here and there throughout that same career about sexual misconduct, the latest of which is front page news here in the States.

The point has been made elsewhere that we have pretty much gotten to an era when a political figure goes on a crusade against something, the act pretty much conveys the fact that in reality they covet what is being derided. Sociopaths are far more cunning than to take a stand against things they secretly enjoy. They simply rarely mention the subject, and when they do, it is with an offhanded glibness that comes across so smooth as to be calculated. And that in and of itself is a tell.

[Seshmeister]

The sex thing fits with the whole0 hypothesis.

I don't think the fact that almost all of these guys cheat so much can only just be because of the aphrodisiac of power or that they have more opportunity.

I'm not just talking bankers and politicians. Top clinicians and academics I meet are the same, fucking anything that moves. :)

[chefcraig]

The sex thing points out another angle, that of total self-absorption and an inability to love anyone but themselves. And the constant cheating in order to quell desire more often displays a self-destructive disconcern with the consequences of their actions, which you'd think would be totally at odds with their controlling nature. Then again, these creeps are in fact bananas, so I guess logic goes right out the window. So much for self preservation.

[Seshmeister]

I guess the flipside to this is that it means Ace Diamond would be perfect marriage material. :)

[chefcraig]

Wouldn't exactly surprise the living shit out of me, as history seems to have proven that I certainly am not. :duh:

[ashstralia]

The sex thing points out another angle, that of total self-absorption and an inability to love anyone but themselves. And the constant cheating in order to quell desire more often displays a self-destructive disconcern with the consequences of their actions, which you'd think would be totally at odds with their controlling nature. Then again, these creeps are in fact bananas, so I guess logic goes right out the window. So much for self preservation.

'the game'. this type also thinks it is far too clever and above everyone else to ever get caught, so the risk taking escalates. it's a common theme in criminology, also.:)

[hideyoursheep]

Sorry to sound cynical but it's only a matter of time before someone starts a thread on the space shuttle and you reply 'well when I flew Columbia...' :)



I know. It's like he's seen, done, been and experienced everything.

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[chefcraig]

Sorry to sound cynical but it's only a matter of time before someone starts a thread on the space shuttle and you reply 'well when I flew Columbia...' :)

http://img1.imagehousing.com/30/26f56f8106095b79f0f0d201f666916f.gif (http://www.imagehousing.com/)

http://img1.imagehousing.com/31/837d6bd26abb5e2082ba11e7b7d66e65.gif (http://www.imagehousing.com/)

http://img1.imagehousing.com/46/95bc31c5b1f60b29882235c141f8231b.gif (http://www.imagehousing.com/)