View Full Version : U.S./West Startled by Chinese Military Tech Advances

01-09-2011, 03:50 AM
US defense chief: China moving fast on new weapons
Chinese J-20 Stealth fighter

The Dong Feng ballistic missile (SF-21C) can be used to target both satellites and aircraft carriers.

Robert Gates, Shri AK Antony, Liang Guanglie, Tea Banh, Mustappa Sirat AP – FILE - In this Oct. 12, 2010, file photo U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates gestures as he walks past, …

By ANNE GEARAN, AP National Security Writer Anne Gearan, Ap National Security Writer – Sat Jan 8, 7:38 pm ET

ABOARD A U.S. MILITARY AIRCRAFT – China is farther along in its development of a new stealth fighter jet than the U.S. had predicted, and that plane and other Chinese military advances are worrisome, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Saturday.

The United States is also nervous about a new Chinese ballistic missile that could theoretically explode a U.S. aircraft carrier nearly 2,000 miles out to sea. China has also apparently beaten U.S. estimates to develop that weapon.

"They clearly have potential to put some of our capabilities at risk," Gates said en route to military talks with Chinese leaders. "We have to pay attention to them, we have to respond appropriately with our own programs."

The United States has long known that China wanted to field a stealth jet, but development outpaced U.S. intelligence estimates, Gates said.

China is still years behind U.S. capabilities in radar-evading aircraft, and even by 2015 the United States would still have far more such aircraft flying than any other nation in the world, Gates said.

China says it does not pose a threat and its military forces are purely for defense — which in its definition includes deterring Taiwan, a self-governing island that Beijing claims as its territory, from declaring formal independence.

In an apparent nod to U.S. calls for more openness, China allowed video and pictures of last week's runway tests of its prototype stealth fighter to be taken and posted online.

While there was no official comment on the tests of the J-20, photos and video of the plane taxiing on the runway were widely distributed. That was a sign of official approval because government censors routinely remove politically sensitive content.

Gates is trying to coax Chinese military leaders into more regular discussions with the U.S. A predictable framework for such contacts could help avert the need for some of the capabilities now in development, Gates said.

The Pentagon is focusing scarcer defense dollars on ways to counter the kinds of weapons China is now building. For example, Gates said recently he wants to spend more on a new long-range nuclear bomber and updated electronics gear for the Navy that could throw an incoming missile off course.

Gates said he has been concerned about the anti-ship missile since he became defense secretary. It's unclear how close the "carrier killer" DF-21 missile is to being usable.

China announced a smaller-than-usual increase last year in its military budget, 7.5 percent, bringing it to $76.3 billion. But actual spending, including money for new weapons and research and development, is believed to be as much as double that. China has the second largest defense budget in the world, trailing only the U.S.

Gates is also visiting South Korea, for brief talks about averting war with the North, as well as Japan, which is alarmed by Chinese military moves.

The China invitation was a coup for Gates, who invited a Chinese counterpart for similar talks and a visit to the U.S. nuclear weapons headquarters in 2009. A reciprocal invitation was expected in 2010, but China withheld it in protest of a planned $6.4 billion arms sale to China's rival, Taiwan.

Yahoo (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_china_military)

Nitro Express
01-09-2011, 04:31 AM
I first went into mainland China in 1980 when it first opened up. It was like going back to frontier America. Steam engines were still used and hardly any cars. People were cooking on charcoal fires outside. We went to a school and I went into an electronics class. Grade school aged kids were making reading with a multi-meter and learning about resistance. I speak Cantonese and so I could talk with them a bit and man, those kids hung on everything I said. You could tell they were real eager.

In college I always had Chinese students in my math classes. In calculus we were graded on the curve but there was no curve because on the Chinese students would get 100%. They just had plenty of drive.

Then our corporations were selling us off to them. One of my friends in Hong Kong will admit that the US built China because we gave them the money and information on how to do it. My uncle who worked at Los Alamos labs told me we were just giving the Chinese what they wanted and they didn't even have to steal it from us.

I think it's been more about greedy business people wanting to take advantage of cheap labor. After World War II, the US became a military economy and with the Soviet Union, they could justify it. Why would we just give China the information, tools, and money to build a modern military? We needed a new enemy to justify ours. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. The war on terror doesn't justify some of the big expensive hardware a real military enemy does. A threatening China is a bigger excuse to build more of the big hardware.

I just see it all as military contractors building a market for themselves.

Nitro Express
01-09-2011, 04:35 AM
Everyone I know working in the private sector is having a tough time. Especially small businesses. My brother in law works for L3 Communications who is a big communications supplier to the military and also makes scanning equipment for Homeland Security. Business is good, he got a raise and just bought a 10,000 square foot home in Utah.

Nitro Express
01-09-2011, 04:39 AM
The only area with a growing real estate market is Washington DC. Why? More government jobs than ever. All of Bush's and Obama's spending. I just see this China thing as Washington insiders and their corporate buddies making a market for themselves. Nothing more. Nobody ever thinks about the long-term consequences or the cause and effect. They just want jobs and money and only care about themselves.

01-09-2011, 01:28 PM
Thanks again, BCE.:sick0020:

01-09-2011, 05:57 PM
China has one of the smallest armies in the world by population.

kwame k
01-09-2011, 06:23 PM
Clinton sold secrets to them and when Congress came sniffing around he changed the technology transfer powers away from Defense and gave it to Commerce, IIRC.

01-13-2011, 03:16 PM
Nick, you still play "Army" with little toy plastic soldiers, don't you? I KNEW IT!!!! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

01-13-2011, 04:12 PM
Nick, you still play "Army" with little toy plastic soldiers, don't you? I KNEW IT!!!! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

And just what the hell is wrong with that? I always liked the bag of 100 green soldiers for like .99 cents. I would bury firecrackers strategically so just the fuses would stick out a little. BOOM! My favorites are the ones that come with little parachutes. Throw them from the roof & watch them float down into my field of firecrackers. Good times. Actually had to go outside & use your imagination compared to nowadays you just click in a website game address & pull the shades down.

My soldiers were last seen kidnapping my little sisters Barbie doll. I think they were on a weekend leave and it was payday.

01-14-2011, 02:36 PM
Nick, you still play "Army" with little toy plastic soldiers, don't you? I KNEW IT!!!! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Beats you playing with your fellow seamen.... :)

But yes, at one time I had a shitload of Green Army Men when they were actually good, and cast with realistic detail such as M-14 rifles and M-60 machine guns and based on actual pics of 1960s or WWII vintage infantry. But shitty, outsourcing toy companies ruined them and turned the figures into blobs wearing something vaguely helmet-ish and carrying something that looked like a broomstick...

Nitro Express
01-15-2011, 12:23 AM
I had you all beat. I had a lead furnace and molds that made soldiers. I then painted them myself and abused them. When they got too hammered, I melted them down and made more. The good old days of 800 degree lead and poisonous fumes. I had a sheet of asbestos to protect the wood workbench from the heat.

01-31-2011, 12:50 PM

gotta watch the video! :lmao: the second video

01-31-2011, 09:42 PM
China to create largest mega city in the world with 42 million people

Tuesday 01 February 2011

By Malcolm Moore in Shanghai and Peter Foster in Beijing 12:21PM GMT 24 Jan 2011

City planners in south China have laid out an ambitious plan to merge together the nine cities that lie around the Pearl River Delta.
The "Turn The Pearl River Delta Into One" scheme will create a 16,000 sq mile urban area that is 26 times larger geographically than Greater London, or twice the size of Wales.
The new mega-city will cover a large part of China's manufacturing heartland, stretching from Guangzhou to Shenzhen and including Foshan, Dongguan, Zhongshan, Zhuhai, Jiangmen, Huizhou and Zhaoqing.
Together, they account for nearly a tenth of the Chinese economy.


Over the next six years, around 150 major infrastructure projects will mesh the transport, energy, water and telecommunications networks of the nine cities together, at a cost of some 2 trillion yuan (190 billion). An express rail line will also connect the hub with nearby Hong Kong.

"The idea is that when the cities are integrated, the residents can travel around freely and use the health care and other facilities in the different areas," said Ma Xiangming, the chief planner at the Guangdong Rural and Urban Planning Institute and a senior consultant on the project.

However, he said no name had been chosen for the area. "It will not be like Greater London or Greater Tokyo because there is no one city at the heart of this megalopolis," he said. "We cannot just name it after one of the existing cities."

"It will help spread industry and jobs more evenly across the region and public services will also be distributed more fairly," he added.
Mr Ma said that residents would be able to use universal rail cards and buy annual tickets to allow them to commute around the mega-city.
Twenty-nine rail lines, totalling 3,100 miles, will be added, cutting rail journeys around the urban area to a maximum of one hour between different city centres. According to planners, phone bills could also fall by 85 per cent and hospitals and schools will be improved.

"Residents will be able to choose where to get their services and will use the internet to find out which hospital, for example, is less busy," said Mr Ma.
Pollution, a key problem in the Pearl River Delta because of its industrialisation, will also be addressed with a united policy, and the price of petrol and electricity could also be unified.

The southern conglomeration is intended to wrestle back a competitive advantage from the growing urban areas around Beijing and Shanghai.
By the end of the decade, China plans to move ever greater numbers into its cities, creating some city zones with 50 million to 100 million people and "small" city clusters of 10 million to 25 million.
In the north, the area around Beijing and Tianjin, two of China's most important cities, is being ringed with a network of high-speed railways that will create a super-urban area known as the Bohai Economic Rim. Its population could be as high as 260 million.

The process of merging the Bohai region has already begun with the connection of Beijing to Tianjing by a high speed railway that completes the 75 mile journey in less than half an hour, providing an axis around which to create a network of feeder cities.

As the process gathers pace, total investment in urban infrastructure over the next five years is expected to hit 685 billion, according to an estimate by the British Chamber of Commerce, with an additional 300 billion spend on high speed rail and 70 billion on urban transport.

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02-02-2011, 05:44 PM
31 January 2011 Last updated at 03:28 ET

China TV 'substitutes Top Gun for air force footage'
By Michael Bristow BBC News, Beijing
US actor Tom Cruise in Top Gun US actor Tom Cruise starred in the 1986 Hollywood film Top Gun

China's state broadcaster used footage that appears to have been taken from a Hollywood film in one of its news reports - but not for the first time.

A China Central Television story about the country's air force showed an explosion that was identical to a scene from the 1986 film Top Gun.

The broadcaster often uses film clips in its news reports.

A person familiar with the company said it was currently trying to set up a system to contain this situation.

The disputed scene was aired on CCTV's main news bulletin on 23 January.

It was in a report about a training exercise undertaken by the People's Liberation Army's air force.

There were interviews with senior military figures.

Over pictures of fighter jets in action, the reporter told viewers that this was a live-fire exercise and all targets had been hit.

One scene showed a pilot firing a missile. A plane was then hit before exploding into flames.

But some keen-eyed observers posted comments on the internet claiming that the scene was identical to one in Top Gun, starring Hollywood actor Tom Cruise.

One person familiar with the way CCTV works said this would not be the first time movie footage was used in a news report.

"There are other cases of the deliberate use of inappropriate footage," he said.

Sometimes it happened because picture editors and reporters were being lazy, or the footage was simply too good not to use, said the source.

It occurs mostly in stories about the military, or science and technology. This is because it can be difficult to spot inconsistencies.

CCTV does not always tell viewers the footage is not genuine or pay royalties for the film and TV clips it uses.

A few years ago the European Union's then-trade commissioner, Peter Mandelson, complained that CCTV had never paid any royalties to EU copyright holders.

An editor on the CCTV news programme that broadcast the "Top Gun" footage declined to comment.


02-02-2011, 06:08 PM
see #12. i just present info with the right flair sometimes.

02-02-2011, 06:32 PM
China to create largest mega city in the world with 42 million people

Been watching this happen here my whole life. Los Angeles grows further south. San Diego grows further north. Just a small stretch now that separates the 2 of us. And that stretch seems to get a little smaller every year. San Angeles - coming soon!

02-02-2011, 06:35 PM
I had you all beat. I had a lead furnace and molds that made soldiers. I then painted them myself and abused them. When they got too hammered, I melted them down and made more. The good old days of 800 degree lead and poisonous fumes. I had a sheet of asbestos to protect the wood workbench from the heat.

When you weren't playing with your giant lawn darts or klick-klacks. (makes my forearm sore just looking at the picture. Arms were bruised the entire 3rd grade)


Jesus Christ
02-02-2011, 07:08 PM
I had you all beat. I had a lead furnace and molds that made soldiers. I then painted them myself and abused them. When they got too hammered, I melted them down and made more. The good old days of 800 degree lead and poisonous fumes. I had a sheet of asbestos to protect the wood workbench from the heat.

Oh big deal. I played with dinosaurs when I was a kid. :jesuslol:

02-02-2011, 07:09 PM
Oh big deal. I played with dinosaurs when I was a kid. :jesuslol:


02-02-2011, 10:28 PM
Oh big deal. I played with dinosaurs when I was a kid. :jesuslol:


I remember those fucking 'clackers'. Were outlawed at school REAL fast.

I had a pair. For a little while. Sorta like a rubber band. Fun for a moment, then WTF?