No high-speed rail for Florida

[jacksmar]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article1155233.ece

Tard Big Eared Kenyan Houseboy Ubama pulled 1.26 billion out of his ass for a train that would never make money and new Florida Gov Scott tells him to shove it back up his ass. (Wonder if Ubama is afraid of mice?)

US Rep Kathy Caster Oil forced to pull back tit. Sen Neslon still looking for Jeannie and settles for Caster Oil's tit.

And the losses keep on coming.

[Kristy]

I'm with the Gov on this one. As for a shithole State as Florida is what are a bunch of Cuban gangbangers, Geritol overdosing snowbirds and SCC rule-breaking quarterbacks going to do with a high-speed train? Ride it past your hurricane destroyed trailer park?

[FORD]

Leave it to a felon like Prick Scott to be a bigger fool than even Jebbie was. Miss Charlie should have stayed on as governor.

[SunisinuS]

Hehe Comedy. Sorry this is not about politcs, it is just about how Americans who have never lived abroad make inane decisions like that Scott there. Comedy. Lol.....sigh....and it just shoves another million barrels of oil down their throats from the middle-east...lol what a patriot.


The facts
Seven major railroad companies reported the following for 2007:

•1,770,545,245,000 ton-miles of freight were moved
•4,062,025,082 gallons of diesel fuel were consumed
•That works out to be almost 436 ton-miles per gallon (435.88)
Trains today 85% more efficient than in 1980
The Association of American Railroads is boasting an 85.5 percent improvement in fuel efficiency for their trains since 1980.

“In fact, if just 10 percent of the freight currently moving by truck went instead by rail, the nation could save one billion gallons of fuel per year."

Lol Florida has to suffer with a fool at the helm. ANYONE that has lived in Europe knows trains are very very good for everyone. So many reasons why. Lol and Rush has made Republicans turn it into a political football.....it is so funny and sad at the same time. Rush is reponsible for more dependence on Middle-easter oil, and the fact that some one's grandmother who can't drive and who can't be stripped searched at the airport won't see her grand kids at christmas. Lol comedy, like common sense and tons of facts should be political cannon fodder. Comedy.

[jacksmar]

Sorry, it's about politics.

It’s about political correctness, leftist lobbies, green credits, and other commie lib bullshit.
And I question the Euro rail system based on the simple power use. Currently, you go from London to Manchester in about 2 hours. To get there in an hour and a quarter the train would have to travel about 160mph. It comes to about 4 times the power and 2 and half times more energy use. In the UK the train runs about 125 mph. Simply put: it takes eight times the power to move at twice the speed.

Speed = distance\time

None of the proposals included building self sustaining power plants. And that makes it political right away for the commie lib "eco" assholes.

[FORD]

The sun shines a lot in Florida, doesn't it. And if the sun isn't shining, there's probably a hurricane going, so set up some wind turbines as a backup.

Endless supply of energy right there.

[Seshmeister]

Sorry, it's about politics.

It’s about political correctness, leftist lobbies, green credits, and other commie lib bullshit.
And I question the Euro rail system based on the simple power use. Currently, you go from London to Manchester in about 2 hours. To get there in an hour and a quarter the train would have to travel about 160mph. It comes to about 4 times the power and 2 and half times more energy use. In the UK the train runs about 125 mph. Simply put: it takes eight times the power to move at twice the speed.

Speed = distance\time


I was going to respond to this but I don't understand what you are trying to say.

I think maybe one of the things you have forgotten about is that trains stop at stations which increases the journey times.

[VAiN]

I'm with the Gov on this one. As for a shithole State as Florida is what are a bunch of Cuban gangbangers, Geritol overdosing snowbirds and SCC rule-breaking quarterbacks going to do with a high-speed train? Ride it past your hurricane destroyed trailer park?

Nice blanket statement.

Anyway, a high-speed rail would actually be very useful here. Florida is very spread out and the public transportation here sucks. I'd love to jump on a train and be in Orlando/Naples/Tampa/etc in minutes vs. hours... Tourism would appreciate being able to move around the state without the added expense of rental cars, but I doubt the rental lobby would let that happen. Also, Florida is huge in the shipping industry, so there's a benefit there as well.

Hasn't this train thing been brought up and shot down a few times in the past? I seem to recall it always being around...

[FORD]

As I said in another thread the other day, the logical approach to high speed rail is to first build lines that run parallel to the Interstate highways that "border" the US, and one of those would be the I-95 corridor on the East Coast, which obviously includes Florida. There's really no excuse left NOT to do it. Including the money part, which could easily be solved by ending the failed occupations and making the rich pay their taxes.

[chefcraig]

Hasn't this train thing been brought up and shot down a few times in the past? I seem to recall it always being around...

Yes it has. But seeing the high speed train shot down once again does not come as a surprise, because as you said, our public transportation is a joke to begin with. Look at the Tri-Rail system, which is supposed to serve three counties. Somehow, the planners failed to create bus lines that would not only get you to the train station, but deliver you to where you wished to go once getting off the train! So in effect, residents living to the far west must drive roughly 20-30 miles to get to the train station, ride it north or south, then use a taxi to get to the location they choose. In the case of heading south, buses will not take you east to the beach because of a deal struck in the 1950s with cab owners, guaranteeing them the right to the highway (and the lucrative amounts of money charged to the passengers).

In other words, the idea of public transportation is completely stillborn. It is a clusterfuck that never will be corrected, because there are so many entities wanting a piece of the pie that none will ever be served, particularly the public. And this is co-opted by a state government that has allowed the place to become the pill-mill capital of the United States, led by a governor who believes a prescription drug database is a waste of time and money. Anyone else sense a theme taking place here?

[SunisinuS]

As I said in another thread the other day, the logical approach to high speed rail is to first build lines that run parallel to the Interstate highways that "border" the US, and one of those would be the I-95 corridor on the East Coast, which obviously includes Florida. There's really no excuse left NOT to do it. Including the money part, which could easily be solved by ending the failed occupations and making the rich pay their taxes.

Same here....I always said to build them right in the middle of the I-5 right straight up Cali. Having lived in Europe, I know how sweet the rail systems are. They will do nothing but good things for the nation. Btw, England is a Democracy, not communist, and they are lock stock and barrel full of trains govenur'....along with (Long list of democracies with trains follows)...... Hey even the Fascists had them!

Republicans should be supporting them (uh trains don't vote so confused why they hate them so much), or is this somehow supporting the "common good"? They will not be powered by moonshine and butterly wings (if for some reason trains are considered "wimpy" by Hannity), so why again would you label the most effecient method of travel "communist"? Even in SLC in the Reddest state in the union, they were forced to build a light rail line to host the Olympics, now there EVEN the Republicans use and love them and are forcefully expanding it as fast as they can. The opposition to them melted away when they started using them.


And yes Craig, in Europe all the local connections are handled very nicely, in the case you cited above, probably not even 2 blocks of walking to each connecting point along the route. But as you know, you have to start somewhere, so the main line is where most of the impetus starts.

[FORD]

Republicans hate the trains for two reasons:

1) Less profit for the oil industry

2) Obama gets credit for doing something that actually helps the country

They don't care that it would create jobs, benefit the environment, and give the most significant upgrade in this nation's infrastructure since Ike started building the freeways. In fact the current Repuke party would have hated that plan too (and a lot of other things in the 1956 party platform (http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=25838))

[Kristy]

Nice blanket statement.


So sorry but a high-speed rail in Florida makes no sense when you consider the demographic of the population there. Americans, especially older Americans are not going to let go of their cars so easily for public transportation no matter how fast it is. Plus, Miami is not a major metropolitan area such as L.A. It would make more sense to put it in Texas than Florida.

[FORD]

Texas would be on the Southern I-10 corridor, and would have I-35 going north-south, under the FORD Plan® laid out in another thread.

Tourism is a big part of Florida's revenue, so it wouldn't just be for the locals, but anything that gets 95 year olds out of cars would be a good thing.

[SunisinuS]

So sorry but a high-speed rail in Florida makes no sense when you consider the demographic of the population there. Americans, especially older Americans are not going to let go of their cars so easily for public transportation no matter how fast it is. Plus, Miami is not a major metropolitan area such as L.A. It would make more sense to put it in Texas than Florida.


My grandmother would have loved to see us without driving...rain sleet snow hail....trains keep rolling...she can stand up, take a wiz, let the varicose veins unfurl (lol) not get lost, arrive safe and sound, all for 1/3rd to 1/2 the cost of driving (in Europe, not that price point in the US yet). I guess it just is hard to explain how and why until you actually live in another country that has it (sorry military service on a base is not the same thing). Everyone benefits from the train. /shrug. I guess people really love traffic jams and spilled coffee in their laps on their daily commute snorting up Carbonmonoxide for that 15 miles that takes them two hours instead of kicking back and reading the paper for the 30 minutes the train takes. again /shrug.

[Kristy]

You're talking more of a light-rail, Sunisinus. High-speed is more for long terrain destinations.

[chefcraig]

So sorry but a high-speed rail in Florida makes no sense when you consider the demographic of the population there. Americans, especially older Americans are not going to let go of their cars so easily for public transportation no matter how fast it is. Plus, Miami is not a major metropolitan area such as L.A. It would make more sense to put it in Texas than Florida.

The idea of a high speed rail train in Florida is dumb, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the age demo of the people living here or the size of it's cities. The proposal is for it to link the south with the north, which is pretty much pointless unless somebody wishes to visit either South beach or Disney World. In other words, it would be devised to bolster in-state tourism, which is absolutely ludicrous. Rather than spending the money on a train that perhaps a third or less of the population will use, the money should go toward the existing transportation system, which is completely inept and entirely inadequate due to poor planning, mismanagement and now, huge budget cuts. As a result, people of all ages, not just the elderly, have been forced into widespread car use because there is no viable alternative in place. Hell, just using a bicycle is a suicidal act, as the road planners have only recently (in the past 4 years) started creating pathways and laws (all drivers must remain at least three feet away from cyclists, you should see how poorly the public has taken to this, as I have a gash on my leg for proof) to accommodate alternate forms of transportation.

The calamity at work here is far deeper than the area's population statistics are aged or the metropolis isn't quite as developed as other cities. The problem is that leaders idiotically believe that a high speed train would solve the issues that the malfeasance of the past 40-50 years has led to.

[SunisinuS]

You're talking more of a light-rail, Sunisinus. High-speed is more for long terrain destinations.

In a country that has invested in this type of infrastructure it is integrated.

The light rail example of SLC was to illustrate that even Republicans will take the train and like it, once they see it as nonpolitical.

The grandma example still stands. Mine were in the Midwest and wanted to go to Cali. In a country that has an evolved train network, this is one of their journeys: 3 blocks to the Light Rail station (sure a friend could drive them if they wanted): Light rail takes her to large station (Tulsa perhaps): High Speed Train leaves 25 minutes later: Enters Ontario: Light Rail to Redlands: 7 blocks to destination.

No cars and fatigue and WORK in operating them (although she could drive her car to the train and put it onboard if she wanted to just like a ferry), and not waiting for 3-6 hours in airports just to have driven to them each time either.


Believe it or not: That is how it really works in Europe. Once people had this in the United States they would kill for it, and wipe out the politicians who kept it from them all this time. It is EASY, Safe, Cost Effective, Convenient, pleasant. If you only know Amtrak, and Greyhound, you must immediately forget those horrible excuses for transportation and clear your head.

Hope I explained that better as like I said, if you have only LIVED in the US you don't really get what I am explaining.

And yes, if you were a bicyclist you could take the SAME trip in the very same way and be bicycling on either end for those last 7 blocks to moms....Even in Winter (least in cali). We used to have the best train system in the world and we pissed it out the window. Sad.

[FORD]

High speed rail has to be part of a national project, or it would be worse than useless. A train that ONLY went from Jacksonville to Miami (or any other two points in Florida) would make less sense than the 2000 ballot counting process.

[Kristy]

I'm all for rail travel providing it is practical. When I used to work downtown I took light rail all the time and loved it the only problem was the park 'n' ride lots but when I think of high speed rail I'm thinking someone traveling from Miami to say, Daytona

[SunisinuS]

Airlines raising domestic fares again.

Sorry Florida. :(


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20110303/ap_tr_ge/us_travel_brief_airlines_fares;_ylt=AlIGFuEYgmhIZT Gofw0A3zNH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTNtbjY2Zzk4BGFzc2V0A2FwX3 RyYXZlbC8yMDExMDMwMy91c190cmF2ZWxfYnJpZWZfYWlybGlu ZXNfZmFyZXMEY2NvZGUDcHpidWUEY3BvcwMxMARwb3MDMTAEc2 VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNhaXJsaW5lc3JhaXM-

[jacksmar]

Sorry no one could comprehend the math. This will help. It takes 2 hours to drive to Orlando from St Pete Beach. I stop when I want to and when I need to and where I need to. If the trains total time at best is 1 hour 45 minutes it isn’t worth shit. That doesn’t include stops.

Just so the math lesson isn’t lost: distance 60 miles\ 1 hr = 60 mph
Sometimes it takes 1hr 45 minutes to Orlando from St Pete beach sometimes 2+ hours. A train won’t be any different.

So Ubama made the train political by pulling money out of his ass he doesn’t have. The Kenyan Houseboy pissed away court time and cost trying to shove trains on Florida and lost.

And for the dumbasses that still don’t get it: There isn’t a train anywhere in the U.S. that makes a profit. If the Florida train was going to be a haul ass money maker, someone would have done it by now.

Typical Ubama: I with the government and I’m here to help.

[FORD]

Why does everything have to be about "profit". I'm talking national infrastructure upgrade here. Was the Interstate Highway System built "for profit"??

It's certainly true that a lot of businesses profited from the highways, by locating themselves next to them. And certainly the oil companies have done well, even before they began practicing blatant fraud and thievery.

If you must bring "profit" into it, how about the money that would be saved by both the people riding the trains, and companies who choose to make them part of their freight operations?

[SunisinuS]

And for the dumbasses that still don’t get it: There isn’t a train anywhere in the U.S. that makes a profit. If the Florida train was going to be a haul ass money maker, someone would have done it by now.

Typical Ubama: I with the government and I’m here to help.

Turn off Rush just for one minute and read below:

http://www2.dailyprogress.com/news/2011/feb/13/how-should-train-profit-be-spent-ar-840692/

http://peoriastation.blogpeoria.com/2010/02/19/passenger-train-profits-in-2010/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Lake_City_TRAX

http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/

Sorry just a quick 3 as I only had 2 minutes over lunch.

Would the gentleman like some Wine with his Crow?

[jacksmar]

Because you have to give the fucking train money back when the fucking train fails.

[Nitro Express]

Why does everything have to be about "profit". I'm talking national infrastructure upgrade here. Was the Interstate Highway System built "for profit"??

It's certainly true that a lot of businesses profited from the highways, by locating themselves next to them. And certainly the oil companies have done well, even before they began practicing blatant fraud and thievery.

If you must bring "profit" into it, how about the money that would be saved by both the people riding the trains, and companies who choose to make them part of their freight operations?

The interstate system was built for the US military actually. They never would have spent that much money for just commercial and civilian use. It was built to move the military around quickly and easily if need be.

[FORD]

The interstate system was built for the US military actually. They never would have spent that much money for just commercial and civilian use. It was built to move the military around quickly and easily if need be.

It was built for both military and civilian use actually. Just as the German Autobahn was when Adolf built it. And there's no reason why the military couldn't use the high speed rail system as well. In fact, having been stuck behind military convoys on I-5 before, I would encourage them to do so. Some of their vehicles just can't go fast enough to be on the freeway, so might as well load them on a flatbed rail car to get them from point a to point b faster.

[Nitro Express]

Governments have to run at a profit as well of they go broke a cease to exists or they get bought up by foreign interests. That's why you have to choose your projects carefully and calculate a return on investment over time. Everything that runs on money is a business whether it's in the private sector or the government. Spend your money away and you disappear or someone else buys you up cheap.

[Nitro Express]

It was built for both military and civilian use actually. Just as the German Autobahn was when Adolf built it. And there's no reason why the military couldn't use the high speed rail system as well. In fact, having been stuck behind military convoys on I-5 before, I would encourage them to do so. Some of their vehicles just can't go fast enough to be on the freeway, so might as well load them on a flatbed rail car to get them from point a to point b faster.

Roads and railways have always been win win projects if they are built in the right areas and serve various interests. There's all sorts of things we can do but at the current time we need to get this whole banking situation under control. The Federal Reserve System is robbing us and people need to understand that no real recovery happens until the Fed is nationalized and we audit it. We could free up 100's of Trillions of looted dollars and wipe out derivative debt. Then we need to pay our legitimate foreign debtors off and then we can look at long-term domestic projects. We don't need high speed rail right now but it's worth looking into once we get the banking fraud neutered and straightened out.

[Nitro Express]

The Fed has ran up so much debt that our taxes are going to pay the Fed off. They are giving 0% loans to the speculators but not to any productive means. So we will pay socialist level taxes and get nothing out of it the way things are. So we need to get the Fed under control.

[jacksmar]

Turn off Rush just for one minute and read below:

http://www2.dailyprogress.com/news/2011/feb/13/how-should-train-profit-be-spent-ar-840692/

http://peoriastation.blogpeoria.com/2010/02/19/passenger-train-profits-in-2010/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Lake_City_TRAX

http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/07/15/french-high-speed-trains-turn-175b-profit-leave-american-rail-in-the-dust/

Sorry just a quick 3 as I only had 2 minutes over lunch.

Would the gentleman like some Wine with his Crow?

Link 2 - the first word? Amtrak
Since the first bailout in 1970, and 30 billion dollars later, Amtrak is no closer to service sustain¬ability today than it was in 1971 when the system began service.
Amtrak annual federal bailout: 1.3 BILLION. 1970-2008
An over used and under funded bridge collapse in Minnesota made these figures available.
Do you want load factors to go with your OOPS?

Trains are a government handout. Take a few minutes more next time.

Fuck Limbaugh, he's another fucking drug abuser like Ubama, Gore, Clinton, Morrison, Hendrix, Joplin, Staley, Bloomfield, Bolin, Farndon, and Cobain.

[SunisinuS]

"There isn’t a train anywhere in the U.S. that makes a profit"

Lol link 2. First thing it says is that it made a profit.

Follow the bouncing ball please. I just rebutted your lack of investigation that would have backed up your statement.

You said it, I shred it. Not really my fault if you think about it. Thinking would be souper huh?

I don't have any respect for Amtrak either. But if you are going to make such a broad statement, you might want to research it.

[fifth element]

So sorry but a high-speed rail in Florida makes no sense when you consider the demographic of the population there. Americans, especially older Americans are not going to let go of their cars so easily for public transportation no matter how fast it is. Plus, Miami is not a major metropolitan area such as L.A. It would make more sense to put it in Texas than Florida.

many older Americans are forced, (bad hearing, bad eyesight, etc), to let go of their cars and would EMBRACE a decent public transportation system.....
and that is EVERYWHERE, not just in Florida or in California,
although I do agree that we have to start somewhere, and the chances are that that somewhere will be on one Coast or the other....
if for no other reason than because the Mid-West usually seems to trail behind, taking a "wait and see" approach

[jacksmar]

I'm pretty darn good at thinking.
"Amtrak’s new Washington, DC-Lynchburg (VA) service" - Link 2

Amtrak = Government subsidy
For any Amtrak line to have made a profit.....EVER......Amtrak would have paid back 30 Billion + to the U.S. coffers and THEN.... made a profit above our loss.

The story reads the line made more money than expected and the FACT is Amtrak, a government subsidy, owes everyone for trains and service since 1970.

The truth in all of the bullshit is Ubama lost again.

The REAL truth is trains are a great fucking idea just about everywhere. The unions squeezed rail out years ago for trucks.

The point is if the Fed needs high speed rail in Florida, they can build the power plants to self sustain and not use FPL, EVER. And the Fed needs to have their accounts in order first.

(Ubama's ass may blown sunshine but it doesn't have any cash shooting out. Hell, this dumb unlettered tard didn't know his own fucking credit card was bad 1992. Actually he knew, he just thought he could coast.)

[Nitro Express]

many older Americans are forced, (bad hearing, bad eyesight, etc), to let go of their cars and would EMBRACE a decent public transportation system.....
and that is EVERYWHERE, not just in Florida or in California,
although I do agree that we have to start somewhere, and the chances are that that somewhere will be on one Coast or the other....
if for no other reason than because the Mid-West usually seems to trail behind, taking a "wait and see" approach

There is public transportation but outside of big cities, nobody uses it. I can think of a college town about 100 miles from here that has all these green and white new buses running around town with nobody on them. It's all government subsidized. They have nice new bus stops and buses but you never see anyone riding the buses. Now in Salt Lake City they built a light rail system and commuter rail system that is working very well because they tied it into the city bus system. I actually use that quite a bit when I go down there.

When I lived in New York I rarely drove into New York City. I would just get on the train in Yonkers and take the train in.

One problem in Salt Lake City is they didn't make the parking lots big enough at the train stations. Some people have to drive a car to get to the public transportation.

[FORD]

SLC also needs to time their traffic lights better, so you aren't sitting on the tracks when a trains coming, and find yourself in a face to face meeting with Elohim and Joseph Smith sooner than you had planned (which is what almost happened to me last time I was there.)

[fifth element]

There is public transportation but outside of big cities, nobody uses it. I can think of a college town about 100 miles from here that has all these green and white new buses running around town with nobody on them. It's all government subsidized. They have nice new bus stops and buses but you never see anyone riding the buses. Now in Salt Lake City they built a light rail system and commuter rail system that is working very well because they tied it into the city bus system. I actually use that quite a bit when I go down there.

When I lived in New York I rarely drove into New York City. I would just get on the train in Yonkers and take the train in.

One problem in Salt Lake City is they didn't make the parking lots big enough at the train stations. Some people have to drive a car to get to the public transportation.

Kudos to the system in SLC. I have also used it, and thought how nice it would be if all major cities had a set up like that.
now, public transportation.
in many small areas the only stops those little busses make are the store, bank and library...(and mall if the city is big enough)
the County transport around here sucks, and that'sthe flat out truth.

[fifth element]

SLC also needs to time their traffic lights better, so you aren't sitting on the tracks when a trains coming, and find yourself in a face to face meeting with Elohim and Joseph Smith sooner than you had planned (which is what almost happened to me last time I was there.)

and yet, they have one of the better transport systems around in this day and age. You'd thinkthat perhaps someone would start taking a look at the plusses and minuses of having systems similarto theirs.

[Nitro Express]

Metropolitan Salt Lake City is actually liberal and Democrat. All the conservative Mormons moved to the suburbs. That's why the mormon church is spending billions of dollars buying up downtown because they don't control it politically anymore and they just can't move the Salt Lake temple to Provo. If that temple wasn't there, the mormon church would move it's headquarters down to Brigham Young University.

[Nitro Express]

They had light rail in Portland when I lived there but it was stupid because it didn't go anywhere but one suburb. What makes it work in Salt Lake City is the city runs the length of the mountains and the Union Pacific right of way was in the right place as well so they lucked out because the city was just laid out perfect for such a system. Also they have larger than normal city blocks and wide streets because Brigham Young laid his cities out that way. He wanted to be able to turn a wagon and a team of horses around in the street and have enough room on each block so each home could grow it's own food supply. When the city grew, those big roomy streets and big blocks worked for light rail. They can put four cars on a train going through the streets.

[FORD]

Maybe Elohim gave old Brigham a vision of the future and told him to leave room for the trains?

[Nitro Express]

Maybe Elohim gave old Brigham a vision of the future and told him to leave room for the trains?

Well apparently Elohim told Brigham to put in empty shafts in the temple and later, the elevators fit perfectly. All I know is I went into a restroom in the basement of the Salt Lake temple and the urnal was placed underneath where a spiral staircase is above the restroom. A little kid could stand up and take a piss no problem but if you are six feet tall, you have to lean back while pissing. If Elohim inspired this, then the Mormon god has some flaws.

[Seshmeister]

All this talk about trains not making money is not clear thinking. Most train systems are subsidised but not as much as cars are in the US.

Spending a trillion on oil wars is a big subsidy.

Also there are huge hidden profits from infrastructure. For example I bet a fuck of a lot of tourists would take a train down to the Keys.

[FORD]

Yeah, but a lot of them queers go to Key West, and Republicans wouldn't want to encourage that either. :biggrin:

[ELVIS]

You would know where queers go...

[FORD]

only because my gay friend who used to go to Key West at least once a year told me. Apparently there's even a gay coffee house there called "Sodom". You would think some entrepreneur would open a burger joint next to that and call it "Gommorah", but to my knowledge that hasn't happened yet.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

only because my gay friend who used to go to Key West at least once a year told me. Apparently there's even a gay coffee house there called "Sodom". You would think some entrepreneur would open a burger joint next to that and call it "Gommorah", but to my knowledge that hasn't happened yet.

i'm sure it would be a "hot dog" stand......:biggrin:

[fifth element]

only because my gay friend who used to go to Key West at least once a year told me. Apparently there's even a gay coffee house there called "Sodom". You would think some entrepreneur would open a burger joint next to that and call it "Gommorah", but to my knowledge that hasn't happened yet.

*Making plans to check outbusiness opportunities in Key West...:biggrin:

[FORD]

i'm sure it would be a "hot dog" stand......:biggrin:

Of course....

[Seshmeister]

Yeah Key West has a big gay community.

It's one of those situations though where it seems to leave a lot of single straight women around.

[Nitro Express]

All this talk about trains not making money is not clear thinking. Most train systems are subsidised but not as much as cars are in the US.

Spending a trillion on oil wars is a big subsidy.

Also there are huge hidden profits from infrastructure. For example I bet a fuck of a lot of tourists would take a train down to the Keys.

I think passenger rail in the US would have to be government ran or subsidized. The commercial railroads make so much more money hauling freight than passengers and you have to be set up completely different to keep them happy. They don't want to mess with it. We have a lot of grand old train terminals sitting around the US unused in the worst parts of down falling apart.

[Nitro Express]

The last real passenger train I rode on was the Union Pacific 844. I took my family to Portland, Oregon on it a few years back.

[Seshmeister]

One way to do it is to have the railways and stations government run and then let private companies run the trains themselves.

Government usually aren't very good at doing stuff which is very customer focussed.

[Nickdfresh]

The interstate system was built for the US military actually. They never would have spent that much money for just commercial and civilian use. It was built to move the military around quickly and easily if need be.

It wasn't JUST built for the military. A lot of that was Ike using that as a cover against accusations of a FDR "gov't works projects" criticisms from the hard right. If we were to examine Ike's beliefs about the Autobahn being of a military significance during WWII, he'd have to acknowledge that it was the ATTACKER (mainly the Western Allied forces that were the most mechanized) that benefited from the Autobahn; not the defenders against them, as the Germans were still largely dependent on ox/horse carts for their logistics despite what a lot of the "super-badass panzer elite ubermench" faboi shit a lot of SS-lovers on the internet come up with. Yes, Ike was indeed impressed by the Autobahn, but not for solely military reasons. It was also out of embarrassment of America's largely parochial, decentralized system of highway transit that varied widely, but were often just increasingly congested two lane roads with no centralized sense of organization nor layout causing increasing problems in the U.S. for commerce and commuters. The military necessity was valid, but also largely subterfuge as neither China nor the Soviets possessed the capability to actually invade North America in the foreseeable future. And even if they did, a mechanized attacker could also drive down I-95 with their tanks and trucks just as easily as U.S. forces could....




It was built for both military and civilian use actually. Just as the German Autobahn was when Adolf built it. And there's no reason why the military couldn't use the high speed rail system as well. In fact, having been stuck behind military convoys on I-5 before, I would encourage them to do so. Some of their vehicles just can't go fast enough to be on the freeway, so might as well load them on a flatbed rail car to get them from point a to point b faster.

Absolutely true, armies always have used rail, including the U.S.

[Nickdfresh]

Yeah Key West has a big gay community.

It's one of those situations though where it seems to leave a lot of single straight women around.

LOL I've been reading a new fad where straight guys go to gay bars (high end ones, not ones with macho leather dudes) in order to pick up the five to ten extremely hot women there with their gay friends...

[Nickdfresh]

Governments have to run at a profit as well of they go broke a cease to exists or they get bought up by foreign interests. That's why you have to choose your projects carefully and calculate a return on investment over time. Everything that runs on money is a business whether it's in the private sector or the government. Spend your money away and you disappear or someone else buys you up cheap.

Like the Pentagon?

[Nitro Express]

Like the Pentagon?

Like the Roman empire, the USSR, or the British empire. We are just following the same mistakes the British and other empires have made. Britiain got by in the 20th century because they got a lot of foreign aide, cheap loans, and had oil assets and the US surpassed it. It looks like it may be China's turn to surpass us. We will probably waddle on for a few more decades thinking we are still a super power.

Sesh would probably agree Scotland should break away and keep it's oil and natural gas money instead of sending it down to that big gaping hole in London.

[hideyoursheep]

I think passenger rail in the US would have to be government ran or subsidized. The commercial railroads make so much more money hauling freight than passengers and you have to be set up completely different to keep them happy. They don't want to mess with it. We have a lot of grand old train terminals sitting around the US unused in the worst parts of down falling apart.

I prefer it be government ran, actually. If it were privatized, safety and quality would be compromised without any oversight. It would be like any other buisness....strictly profit-driven, over priced and unsafe. An organization similar to the FAA or DOT....or maybe the DOT itself could keep an eye on things. Other than that, a high speed rail between major metro areas to avoid high gas prices and traffic congestion only makes sense. We've saturated the freeways to the point of needing a release valve, so to speak.

This dumb-fuck that we have up here, John Kasich, doesn't seem to be able to wrap his mind around a good idea.

[hideyoursheep]

If you live in Glory Hole, Wy., you probably need a train just to get shit paper, huh?:biggrin:

[Nickdfresh]

And just because something is "government run" doesn't mean that a whole host of private contracting firms won't be making a good buck building and running things with the gov't oversight essentially being a general contractor. Something that often happens in things like...oh...highways, infrastructure projects such as dams, and land management/environmental cleanup....

[jacksmar]

How Flaws Undid Obama’s Hope for High-Speed Rail in Florida

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/us/12rail.html?_r=2&hp

The rest of the world calls them bullet trains because they go so fast. But in the United States, the nickname is apt for a different reason: They keep getting shot down.

The nation’s first true high-speed railroad was supposed to leave the station in 2015, a sleek Tomorrowland-worthy train that would have whisked riders between Orlando and Tampa at speeds of up to 168 miles an hour.

Tampa and Orlando are only 84 miles apart, generally considered too close for high-speed rail to make sense. The train trip, with many stops along the way, would have shaved only around a half-hour off the drive. Since there are no commercial flights between the two cities, the new line would not have lured away fliers or freed up landing slots at the busy airports. And neither Tampa nor Orlando has many public transportation options. So the question arose: Could riders be persuaded to leave their cars behind and buy tickets to places where they would still probably need cars?

[ELVIS]

No they would not...

[chefcraig]

And neither Tampa nor Orlando has many public transportation options. So the question arose: Could riders be persuaded to leave their cars behind and buy tickets to places where they would still probably need cars?

Which is the problem facing most municipalities, be the train a high speed rocket or built on technology for a kid's ride at the county fair: Without an infrastructure of supporting/connecting buses or trolley services, travelers are have two choices, either renting a car or using a taxi, neither option being long on convenience or light on expense. And even if transportation is readily available, just what are people supposed to do with their luggage or bags full of shopping items? As a consumer driven society, Americans are used to some sense of independence as well as convenience. Asking them to give up either for the sake of expedience is simply not going to happen in our lifetime without reprogramming on an astronomically giant scale.

[FORD]

This is what happens when the BCE runs your state. :(

[Seshmeister]

And neither Tampa nor Orlando has many public transportation options. So the question arose: Could riders be persuaded to leave their cars behind and buy tickets to places where they would still probably need cars?

That's actually a really good point.

I once stayed for 5 days in Orlando without a car and ended up spending about $600 on taxis.

[Nitro Express]

That's actually a really good point.

I once stayed for 5 days in Orlando without a car and ended up spending about $600 on taxis.

Only a lunatic would spend $600 on taxis. You need to learn how to get good car rental deals.

[FORD]

LOL I've been reading a new fad where straight guys go to gay bars (high end ones, not ones with macho leather dudes) in order to pick up the five to ten extremely hot women there with their gay friends...

Upside of that is that you have a lot less competition, at least from the males (though if the women have any inclinations to swing from both sides of the plate, that opens up a whole new field of competition.) Sometimes the girls just go there to dance, and the gay guys do that better than most of us breeders do.

Downside is, don't get so drunk that you forget to check that the women are actually women. I have seen a few trannies that might have fooled me under heavy beer goggles. :headlights:

[Seshmeister]

Only a lunatic would spend $600 on taxis. You need to learn how to get good car rental deals.

I never drink and drive.

[ELVIS]

That's actually a really good point.



And that's been one of my points...

American suburbs and neighborhoods are way too spread out...

You would have to drive to the train and then find additional transportation for the last legs of your travel...

And Florida has nice roads and highways that are not badly congested...

Nobody would use it and it would lose tons of money...


:elvis:

[ELVIS]

Upside of that is that you have a lot less competition, at least from the males (though if the women have any inclinations to swing from both sides of the plate, that opens up a whole new field of competition.) Sometimes the girls just go there to dance, and the gay guys do that better than most of us breeders do.



You're like the Roth Army queer expert...

[chefcraig]

And Florida has nice roads and highways that are not badly congested...


Really, whereabouts? I might move there. http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-confused-smileys-298.gif (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/skype-emoticons.html)

[FORD]

I'm like the Roth Army Klan expert...

That's really nothing to brag about.