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View Full Version : 5 Reasons Unions Are Bad For America



BigBadBrian
03-08-2011, 07:53 AM
http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2011/03/08/5_reasons_unions_are_bad_for_america/page/full/

At one time in this country, there were few workplace safety laws, few restraints on employers, and incredibly exploitive working conditions that ranged from slavery, to share cropping, to putting children in dangerous working conditions. Unions, to their everlasting credit, helped play an important role in leveling the playing field for workers.

However, as the laws changed, there was less and less need for unions. Because of that, union membership shrank. In response, the unions became more explicitly involved in politics. Over time, they managed to co-opt the Democratic Party, pull their strings, and rewrite our labor laws in their favor.

As Lord Acton noted, "Power tends to corrupt," and that has certainly been true for the unions. Unions have become selfish, extremely greedy, and even thuggish in their never-ending quest to take in as much as they can for themselves, at the expense of everyone else who crosses their path.

That's why today, unions have changed from organizations that "look out for the little guy" into the largest, most rapacious special interest group in the entire country. Where unions go, disaster usually follows. Just to name a few examples:

1) Unions are severely damaging whole industries: How is it that GM and Chrysler got into such lousy shape that they had to be bailed out? There's a simple answer: The unions. The massive pensions the car companies paid out raised their costs so much that they were limited to building more expensive cars to try to get their money back. They couldn't even do a great job of building those cars because utterly ridiculous union rules prevented them from using their labor efficiently. America created the automobile industry, but American unions are strangling it to death. Unions also wrecked the steel and textile industries and have helped drive manufacturing jobs overseas. They're crippling the airline industry and, of course, we can't forget that...

2) Unions are ruining public education: Every few years, it's the same old story. The teachers’ unions claim that public education in this country is dramatically underfunded and if they just had more money, they could turn it around. Taxpayer money then pours into our schools like a waterfall and....there's no improvement. A few years later, when people have forgotten the last spending spree on education, the process is repeated.

However, the real problem with our education system in this country is the teachers’ unions. They do everything possible to prevent schools not only from firing lousy teachers, but also from rewarding talented teachers. Merit pay? The unions hate it. Private schools? Even though everyone knows they deliver a better education than our public schools, unions fight to keep as many kids as possible locked in failing private schools. In Wisconsin, we've had whole schools shutting down so that lazy teachers can waste their time protesting on the taxpayers’ dime. Want to improve education in this country? Then you've got to take on the teachers’ unions.

3) Unions are costing you billions of tax dollars: Let's put it plain and simple: Government workers shouldn't be allowed to unionize. Period.

Why?

Because you elect representatives to look out for your interests.

It's obviously in your interest to pay as little as possible to government workers, to keep their benefits as low as possible, and to hire as few of them as possible to do the job. However, because the Democratic Party and the unions are in bed with each other, this entire process has been turned on its ear. Instead of looking out for your interests, Democrats try to hire as many government workers as possible, pay them as much as possible, and give them benefits that are as generous as possible, all so that union workers will do more to get them re-elected.

In other words, the Democratic Party and the unions are engaged in an open conspiracy to defraud the American taxpayer. There's no way that the American people should allow that to continue.

4) Unions are fundamentally anti-democratic : How in the world did we get to the point where people can be forced to join a union just to get a job at certain places? Then, after they're dragooned into the union, they have no choice other than to pay dues that are used for political activities which the unwilling dues-paying member may oppose.

Add to that the fact that the Democrats and the government unions collaborate to subvert democracy at the expense of the taxpayer and it's not a pretty picture. Worse yet, unions have gotten so voracious that they even want to do away with the secret ballot, via card check, so they can openly bully people into joining unions. The way unions behave in this country is undemocratic, un-American, and it should trouble anyone who cares about freedom and individual rights.

5) Government unions are bankrupting cities and states: Government unions have bled billions from taxpayers nationally, but the damage they're doing on the local level is even worse. We have cities and states all across the country that are so behind on their bills that there have been genuine discussions about bankruptcy. There are a lot of irresponsible financial policies that have helped contribute to that sorry state-of-affairs, but unquestionably, the biggest backbreakers can be directly traced back to the unions.

As the Washington Times has noted, union pensions are crushing budgets all across the country.

Yet it comes as little surprise that the same profligacy that pervades the corridors of federal power infects this country’s 87,000 state, county and municipal governments and school districts. By 2013, the amount of retirement money promised to employees of these public entities will exceed cash on hand by more than a trillion dollars.
So, what happens when these pensions can't be paid? They will come to the taxpayers with their hands out. When they stroll forward with their beggar's bowl in hand, the American people should keep their wallets in their pockets. That may not seem fair, but the public sector union members have gotten a great deal at everyone else's expense for a long time and if somebody has to take a haircut, and they do, it should be the union members instead of the taxpayers they've been bilking for so long.

BigBadBrian
03-08-2011, 07:59 AM
I wonder why Obama hasn't insisted Federal workers shouldn't have the same bargaining rights as a lot of state union workers?

It's because he knows it does nothing but hold taxpayers hostage to a bunch of wealthy union leaders.

FORD
03-08-2011, 12:35 PM
What an unbelievable shit pile of lies, hate, and distortions. Or in other words, a typical townhell.com rant.

Most ridiculous part of it is when the bozo attempts to contrast union members with "taxpayers".

Union members ARE taxpayers. It's the corporations who hate unions who are dodging their taxes. And the sick irony is that corrupt politicians are bowing to the will of these criminals who refuse to even pay THEIR salaries.

SunisinuS
03-08-2011, 01:14 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

/shrug

FORD
03-08-2011, 01:32 PM
The KKKoch Brothers sell more astroturf than the guys who get the contracts with football stadiums.

bueno bob
03-08-2011, 04:35 PM
I found it HIGHLY amusing that the link provided immediately gave me a pop up on how to get Sarah Palin's new book for free.

Tells me EVERYTHING I need to know about that stupid fucking website right there.

FORD
03-08-2011, 04:43 PM
Speaking of astroturfing.......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sISKwUkQOWQ

the atomic punk
03-08-2011, 09:01 PM
At one time in this country, there were few workplace safety laws, few restraints on employers, and incredibly exploitive working conditions that ranged from slavery, to share cropping, to putting children in dangerous working conditions. Unions, to their everlasting credit, helped play an important role in leveling the playing field for workers.



Everything in that sentence goes on today in emerging nations at the behest of American Corporations. If they'll do it to them, they'll do it to you. What more really needs to be said? Not only did unions "level the playing feild", they created the middle class.



America created the automobile industry, but American unions are strangling it to death.

Please. The German auto makers unions make the American unions look like girl scouts. They get to vote on the board of directors for crissakes. And the Japanese automakers enjoy a level of protectionism unheard of in the states. When did Toyota start having safety problems? When they started using non-union labor in southern U.S. assembly plants. No automakers in the world suffer the level of contempt from their employers that American autoworkers do.



It's obviously in your interest to pay as little as possible to government workers, to keep their benefits as low as possible, and to hire as few of them as possible to do the job.

What? In my interest to pay as little as possible for teachers? Prison gaurds? Police officers? That's gotta be the craziest shit I've ever read.

Dr. Love
03-08-2011, 09:45 PM
Don't feed the troll, folks!

ELVIS
03-08-2011, 09:56 PM
Which one is the troll ??

Matt White
03-08-2011, 10:35 PM
Wow.....I almost hurt myself from laughing...

Utter teabagger nonsene....
From the guys who brought us slave labor....

What has cost the tax payers billions? How about the savings & loans payout and the....oh yeah the Wall Street payout of 2008.....same people...same old story

Now the oil speculators are bleeding us dry again....

but those damn Unions....hysterical

And that SHIT about the Big 3....what hurt em? Fucking Health Care....

NO WAY we can fix health Care....because they all suck on that tit......

Dr. Love
03-08-2011, 11:15 PM
Which one is the troll ??

the one posting nonsense just to get a reaction

Guitar Shark
03-08-2011, 11:20 PM
the one posting nonsense just to get a reaction

Shut up, troll

the atomic punk
03-09-2011, 07:37 AM
A unionized public employee, an ill-informed citizen, and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the ill-informed citizen and says, “Watch out for that union guy. He wants a piece of your cookie.”

BigBadBrian
03-09-2011, 08:05 AM
I found it HIGHLY amusing that the link provided immediately gave me a pop up on how to get Sarah Palin's new book for free.

Tells me EVERYTHING I need to know about that stupid fucking website right there.

God forbid you actually read an opposing viewpoint and get some info from something other than the Huffington Post and the Daily Show.

Seshmeister
03-09-2011, 08:06 AM
Are you talking about Bob or Sarah Palin?

BigBadBrian
03-09-2011, 08:08 AM
but those damn Unions....

How are those "damn unions" working out for CA and NY?

Von Halen
03-09-2011, 10:10 AM
The Unions have fucked up the auto industry in Detroit, beyond belief. They have zero work ethic. They expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. They spend more time trying to figure out how to get out of working, than they do actually working. They simply abuse the system that was originally designed to protect them. I worked for 2 years to get a contract to supply every Chrysler plant in the U.S. with with equipment. Then I had the unenviable task of going into these plants and training these fucking idiots. No, they aren't idiots because they are dumb and can't learn, they are idiots because the they are blatantly abusing the system that got them what they have (had) now.

Destroying the Unions might not be the answer, but letting them run roughshod isn't the answer either.

The Unions did build the middle class.

Legacy costs are what was killing the Big 3.

ELVIS
03-09-2011, 10:21 AM
And how much were these idiots being paid on average ??

Seshmeister
03-09-2011, 10:55 AM
Did they all have private jets or was that just the bosses?

bueno bob
03-09-2011, 11:17 AM
God forbid you actually read an opposing viewpoint and get some info from something other than the Huffington Post and the Daily Show.

Oh, I'll read opposing viewpoints and give them consideration - I mean, as long as they're somewhat based in reality and not complete and utter bullshit designed to give mental midgets talking points for their next teabag party.

Dr. Love
03-09-2011, 11:25 AM
Shut up, troll

ok :(

ELVIS
03-09-2011, 11:34 AM
Oh, I'll read opposing viewpoints and give them consideration - I mean, as long as they're somewhat based in reality and not complete and utter bullshit designed to give mental midgets talking points for their next teabag party.

Why are tea party people mental midgets ??

Guitar Shark
03-09-2011, 12:09 PM
If the shoe fits...

Nitro Express
03-09-2011, 12:37 PM
What an unbelievable shit pile of lies, hate, and distortions. Or in other words, a typical townhell.com rant.

Most ridiculous part of it is when the bozo attempts to contrast union members with "taxpayers".

Union members ARE taxpayers. It's the corporations who hate unions who are dodging their taxes. And the sick irony is that corrupt politicians are bowing to the will of these criminals who refuse to even pay THEIR salaries.

It's SOME of the corporations that dodge paying taxes and we know which ones they are. The corporations who don't dodge on their taxes pay some of the highest corporate taxes in the industrialized world. As far as unions go, I think most of the union bosses are more concerned about collecting union dues more than anything else.

What's destroying the country is a complicated mess of too many people feeling entitled to take from the system and not put anything back into it or invest for the long-term. Nobody is thinking about the future or planning for it. They are too occupied with robing the system like a bunch of drunk pirates.

Nitro Express
03-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Why are tea party people mental midgets ??

There is no Tea Party. I've never seen it on the ballot. It doesn't exist.

Nitro Express
03-09-2011, 12:49 PM
The Unions have fucked up the auto industry in Detroit, beyond belief. They have zero work ethic. They expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. They spend more time trying to figure out how to get out of working, than they do actually working. They simply abuse the system that was originally designed to protect them. I worked for 2 years to get a contract to supply every Chrysler plant in the U.S. with with equipment. Then I had the unenviable task of going into these plants and training these fucking idiots. No, they aren't idiots because they are dumb and can't learn, they are idiots because the they are blatantly abusing the system that got them what they have (had) now.

Destroying the Unions might not be the answer, but letting them run roughshod isn't the answer either.

The Unions did build the middle class.

Legacy costs are what was killing the Big 3.

The UAW workers couldn't be that bad because the Japanese will hire them in a heartbeat. The ones in Wisconsin certainly built a better truck than the Mexicans at the GM plant down there.

I agree the unions have made Detroit uncompetitive by requiring assembly lines to stay open and make models of cars nobody wants. I always wondered why Detroit made so many models but the unions demand the lines stay open. When your competition don't have to do that you are operating at a handicap. Also, do we hear the non union workers at foreign owned plant in the US complain? No.

Nitro Express
03-09-2011, 12:59 PM
I used to be a member of the Teamsters union. I never got anything out of it and they garnished my paycheck. It was bad enough that we had to deal with all the Department of Transportation bullshit but we had to deal with the union bullshit. Sometimes there was a truck that needed to get back to the depot but all the union workers were busy. There were people in the office licensed to drive a rig but they were not union. If the union found out we sent a non-union person to drive a truck they would throw a royal shit fit. The reality is there was freight on the dock that had to be loaded and the truck was not there because it was 150 miles away at the next depot. So we had an office secrecy pact so we could get that truck back, have a union forklift driver load it and have a union driver take it to it's final destination.

If we followed all the union rules, nobody would get their freight on time, the customers would find another freight company and all those union employees would lose their jobs because the company folded. That's the truth of it.

Nitro Express
03-09-2011, 01:14 PM
Please. The German auto makers unions make the American unions look like girl scouts. They get to vote on the board of directors for crissakes. And the Japanese automakers enjoy a level of protectionism unheard of in the states. When did Toyota start having safety problems? When they started using non-union labor in southern U.S. assembly plants. No automakers in the world suffer the level of contempt from their employers that American autoworkers do.



I often hear the argument that the US can't compete because the cost of labor is too high. Not true. The cost of labor in Germany is higher than the US and they are only second to China in exports and doing well even when the EU is sucking hard on their tits. The average worker in Japan makes more than a US worker. So you can pay your workers a middle class working wage and still compete on a global scale.

In the US right now the best ran and best to work for companies are either private companies or companies owned by the workers. So Wall Street is the obvious problem but then Wall Street has infiltrated the government and unions. I love how the GM bond holders took a bath as the UAW got their bailout. So unions are getting bailouts right there with the banks and the little guy gets fucked. I really don't see these big unions with government ties any different than the banks.

ELVIS
03-09-2011, 03:08 PM
Or the corporations FORD likes to whine about...

Seshmeister
03-09-2011, 04:04 PM
Why are tea party people mental midgets ??

Is this a riddle? :)

A group that thinks Sarah Palin is a good idea?

How about by trying to get involved in peoples sex lives when they claim to be about reducing government spending?

Nitro Express
03-09-2011, 04:13 PM
Sarah Palin wants to get involved in my sex life and have the government pay for it? What exactly does that mean? She is going to have sex with me and use tax money to pay for some extra whores to join in the fun? If those are her plans, I might vote for her. :biggrin:

the atomic punk
03-09-2011, 06:02 PM
Do we hear the non union workers at foreign owned plant in the US complain? No.

Here's an interesting article about that...

http://blogs.payscale.com/ask_dr_salary/2008/12/are-ford-workers-really-paid-73-an-hour.html

The big three and the unions both contributed to the current mess through a combination of bad accounting and unrealistic projections. But keep in mind that the non-union automakers have to keep their people happy because they want to keep the unions out. The threat of unionization keeps even non-union employers honest.


If we followed all the union rules, nobody would get their freight on time, the customers would find another freight company and all those union employees would lose their jobs because the company folded. That's the truth of it.

I've worked for two unions over the years, and yes the rules are cumbersome. There is no question that there is corruption and incompetence in every big union. Can you name the large organization where there isn't? There's a big gulf between "The unions need to be more practical" and "The unions are nothing but crooks and thugs."


I love how the GM bond holders took a bath as the UAW got their bailout.

As I recall the UAW took some major concessions right before the bailout.

knuckleboner
03-09-2011, 07:58 PM
Shut up, troll

Dr. Love is not a troll. he's a dick. there's a difference.

bueno bob
03-09-2011, 09:43 PM
Why are tea party people mental midgets ??

Because I've heard them talk.

FORD
03-09-2011, 09:50 PM
Why are tea party people mental midgets ??

Because they actually believe they have more in common with the KKKoch Brothers and a fat Oxycontin addict who makes $400 million a year than they do with teachers, union members, Liberals, and health care workers (like you used to be)

bueno bob
03-09-2011, 09:52 PM
Because they actually believe they have more in common with the KKKoch Brothers and a fat Oxycontin addict who makes $400 million a year than they do with teachers, union members, Liberals, and health care workers (like you used to be)

Hey now! Those people are creating JOBS, remember?

:rolleyes:

FORD
03-09-2011, 10:01 PM
Yeah, if "professional teabagging astroturfer" or "idiot paid to call Limpdick's radio show (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/07/rush-limbaugh-denies-payi_n_832497.html)" qualify as job descriptions, I guess.

Nitro Express
03-09-2011, 10:55 PM
There's corruption in every corner. That's why everything is going to shit. There are no good guys anymore. Everyone has a hidden agenda.

Nitro Express
03-09-2011, 10:56 PM
We are basically trying to fight fascism with communism. That's how shitty bad things have gotten.

bueno bob
03-10-2011, 12:42 AM
We are basically trying to fight fascism with communism. That's how shitty bad things have gotten.

And we're taking

bueno bob
03-10-2011, 12:42 AM
Five posts

bueno bob
03-10-2011, 12:43 AM
To make

bueno bob
03-10-2011, 12:43 AM
One whole

bueno bob
03-10-2011, 12:44 AM
Statement.

Seshmeister
03-10-2011, 10:37 AM
You have to allow for the fact that nitro grew up in the days of the telegraph stop sometimes though i do wish he would stop

FORD
03-10-2011, 01:39 PM
Hell, he's from Wyoming. They probably still USE telegraphs there! :biggrin:

Seshmeister
03-10-2011, 01:41 PM
That post looked a lot better in capital letters before the software tidied it up but it's a price worth paying to stop the shouty people... :)

Nitro Express
03-10-2011, 01:54 PM
Go ahead and enjoy your illusion of choice. I know a rigged game when I see it. The average person gets fucked in both of them. Until people can get un bought off politicians into office, nothing is going to change.

FORD
03-10-2011, 02:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbzxemJZIc

Nitro Express
03-10-2011, 02:11 PM
Well maybe the Chinese should unionize because that's where most of our union jobs went. Obama hasn't brought any of them back either.

the atomic punk
03-10-2011, 02:45 PM
They'll be back. Once American's get used to the idea that they'll have to work 18 hours a day, 7 days a week for $4 an hour. The CEO's would love to avoid all those pesky shipping costs. Oh, and while they are at it Americans need to get used to the idea that education is for the rich, all the working class needs to know is how to count and read instructions.

FORD
03-10-2011, 02:59 PM
Yeah, I thought this country was fucked when Chimpy made it a living embodiment of Orwell's 1984. But now the KKKoch brothers and their puppets like Muammar Walker have gone beyond that, right into Huxley's Brave New World. Most ironic thing about it is that the Epsilons (teabaggers) actually believe it's all being done for their benefit.

Nitro Express
03-10-2011, 03:21 PM
They'll be back. Once American's get used to the idea that they'll have to work 18 hours a day, 7 days a week for $4 an hour. The CEO's would love to avoid all those pesky shipping costs. Oh, and while they are at it Americans need to get used to the idea that education is for the rich, all the working class needs to know is how to count and read instructions.

Well, they have both parents working and now they have the gaul to ask us to volunteer. Also once inflation starts going it's going to get worse because food and fuel will get real expensive. No it's going to snap. Look at all the US Senators who are going to retire the next election. They never retire hardly. The rats are jumping ship folks and they are going to retire in New Zealand or Paraguay.

Nitro Express
03-10-2011, 03:24 PM
I moved my retirement savings out of the country several years ago. I don't even want to keep any long term money in dollars or in this country anymore. Lot's of American money is going into Singapore banks right now. That place is going to be the next world financial center because everyone can play Asia from there.