Plane crashes at Reno air show, described as "mass casualty event"

[FORD]

Plane crashes at Reno air show, 75 injured

RENO, Nev. -- A World War II era fighter plane plunged into the grandstands Friday during a popular annual air show, injuring at least 75 spectators and leaving a horrific scene of bodies and wreckage.

It wasn't immediately known if anyone died in the crash but a spokesman for the event called it a "mass casualty event." Video showed a chaotic scene with several people apparently badly wounded.

Stephanie Kruse, a spokeswoman for the Regional Emergency Medical Service Authority, said 25 people were critically injured and another 25 people were seriously injured in the crash. More than 25 more people were treated for minor injuries, she said.

Kruse said the critically injured were considered to have life-threatening injuries.

Airport personnel and military evacuated other spectators, and several emergency vehicles were headed to the scene.

The P-51 Mustang crashed into a box seat area at the front of the grandstand at about 4:30 p.m., said race spokesman Mike Draper said.

Draper identified the pilot of the P-51 Mustang as Jimmy Leeward. According to his Facebook page, Leeward has raced airplanes since the 1970s. A post on the page Friday afternoon said "Jimmy is starting up right now" and posted a link to live video of the airshow.

Jeff Martinez, a KRNV weatherman, was just outside the air race grounds at the time of the crash. He said he saw the plane veer to the right and then "it just augered straight into the ground."

"You saw pieces and parts going everywhere," he said. "Everyone is in disbelief."

The National Championship Air Races draws thousands of people every year in September to watch various military and civilian planes race.

The races have attracted scrutiny in the past over safety concerns, including four pilots killed in 2007 and 2008. It was such a concern that local school officials once considered whether they should not allow student field trips at the event.

The competition is like a car race in the sky, with planes flying wingtip-to-wingtip as low as 50 feet off the sagebrush at speeds sometimes surpassing 500 mph. Pilots follow an oval path around pylons, with distances and speeds depending on the class of aircraft.

Video here.... can't see much close up, but it looks bad............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCNePeKn3Tg

[Little Texan]

I've never been to an air show, and from what I've seen on the news over the years, I never want to go to one, either, as it seems there is a crash at every one of them.

[sadaist]

$10 bucks says someone who died was yet another VH fan that will never have the opportunity to unwrap & play a new Van Halen album. Good going Eddie...you ass.

Thoughts to all involved & their friends and family. I truly hope any casualty numbers stay very very low.

[FORD]

Yeah, my parents live about 2 miles east of the Olympia Airport, and sometimes I get a little nervous if I'm out there with all these old planes flying pretty low over their house. In this case, I think it was a combination of old plane AND old pilot. Both were about 80. And now, both are dead, along with a dozen or so others, according to the Reno TV channel. :(

[SunisinuS]

I was feted for my birthday with a trip to Reno. Was a tradition. As a pilot and a fan my heart goes out to all those hurt and for everyone there. Tragedy.

I have been around airplanes whenever I could my whole life. I have tremendous respect for their abilities and their lethality. I have sat in those very same stands where the video was shot. :(

[Seshmeister]

I don't mean to sound cold but there have been so many of these things now at air shows if you do get killed you can't really complain about it.

I would never go anywhere near one of these things.

[Nitro Express]

We were at Reno the year this happened. The owner of the P-51 was a family friend. It was a very cool plane. Counter rotating props and loud as hell when it fired up. Luckily the guy flying survived the crash and is still flying today.

[Blaze]

I don't know , Ford. I was a CAP and an Aviation Explorer, part of that was hosting an Air Show. We never had any deaths. There are 1000's of Air Shows, but the one that make the news are the one that give death to the ratings thirsty.
Cheers!

[Nitro Express]

I was at this Thunderbird show at Mountain Home air force base and saw one of the Thunderbirds crash his plane. These are experienced highly trained pilots but he forgot to reset his altimeter and it was still set for the runway in California that they flew in from. Whoops! A big fucking expensive mistake!

[Nitro Express]

[PETE'S BROTHER]

what? they don't automatically "reset"?

[Nitro Express]

what? they don't automatically "reset"?
Nope. The one in the plane I fly has a little knob you turn to set the altimeter for the elevation of the runway you are going to land at. It's call flight prep and what seems mundane and repetitive may save your life. I'm amazed he forgot to do it. He must have tossed the checklist.

[SunisinuS]

Nope. The one in the plane I fly has a little knob you turn to set the altimeter for the elevation of the runway you are going to land at. It's call flight prep and what seems mundane and repetitive may save your life. I'm amazed he forgot to do it. He must have tossed the checklist.

Kudo to a fellow pilot. Cherokee 6528Charlie says hello.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

hola from whiskey tango bravo 420 :biggrin:

[SunisinuS]

lol Nice Orion. Man the whole cavalier shit is so military. Everyday is a good day to die! Was fun watching this crew...thanks nitro.

Gotta love the hula gal. Think I will have to add her to my flight collective. For those that watch this video, at :49 you will see how I used to pass beers back to the people in the back seat as we flew on our way to a Grateful Dead Concert. Let it float out of my hand and then push the nose back down and watch it gracefully travel back to the person that needed one. Me I was flying...so no beer for the pilot. Only for the drummer when I was back on the ground. It was also how I used to pass the boombox after starting My Tunes in it. Lol this huge boombox would float back over the headrest and just float down in their lap. Comedy.

Roth On!

[Nitro Express]

It doesn't concern me how old the plane is so much. An airframe can pretty much last forever as long as it's maintained. Look at the B-52's still flying and will fly until the middle of this century. To keep a plane FAA certified requires going over everything. Most crashes are the result of pilot error. I've seen people do some stupid shit. I've seen too many people load up a small plane with people and luggage and then try to take off on a hot day. They stall the plane and crash. I've seen people take off without topping their tanks off thinking they can make it to the destination and then they run into a headwind. A friend of mine ran out of fuel on final approach and plowed through a barbed wire fence. He was in a hurry to get home and didn't want to mess with waiting for the fuel truck. If you are going 150 miles you can get there faster just driving. By the time you do your pre flight check, top the tanks off, warm up the engine, taxi and takeoff you are well on your way in a car. Then you have to land, find a tie down spot (getting expensive these days) and rent a car. In a small plane if bad weather rolls in you are grounded because you can't get above it. Small planes are just glorified toys and not serious transportation. Unless you can get up above the weather you are seriously handicapped.

[Nitro Express]

I grew up in central Idaho so I'm used to landing on some scary airstrips. We had quite a few bush pilots in our town including my dad.

[SunisinuS]

I have my mountain checkout. All you have to do is to check and follow the charts, communicate, ask locals. Speak! Listen for that stall horn! Look for deer and the rabbits following them. hehe. Courtesy car baby...then you just take a tarp and drape it over the wing. Camping camping campin. Lewiston was part of my cross country solo. :) Walla Walla.

Tell your dad if he is still kicking hello.


Went up to CDL just to go golfing for the weekend with two buddies. Got fogged in.....didn't get out until Monday right before classes.

My neck of the woods Currently:




This one is a pilot killer for those who do not know the area.

[Nitro Express]

lol Nice Orion. Man the whole cavalier shit is so military. Everyday is a good day to die! Was fun watching this crew...thanks nitro.

Gotta love the hula gal. Think I will have to add her to my flight collective. For those that watch this video, at :49 you will see how I used to pass beers back to the people in the back seat as we flew on our way to a Grateful Dead Concert. Let it float out of my hand and then push the nose back down and watch it gracefully travel back to the person that needed one. Me I was flying...so no beer for the pilot. Only for the drummer when I was back on the ground. It was also how I used to pass the boombox after starting My Tunes in it. Lol this huge boombox would float back over the headrest and just float down in their lap. Comedy.

Roth On!

Glad you liked it. It's the Marines flying the Blue Angel's transport plane. Flying by the numbers to say the least. Grateful Dead? Were you flying one of these with wings?

[SunisinuS]

It's all in the takeoff baby...without that...there would be no landing.

:)

Let me roll up on the sidewalk and take a look!

[Nitro Express]

I have my mountain checkout. All you have to do is to check and follow the charts, communicate, ask locals. Speak! Listen for that stall horn! Look for deer and the rabbits following them. hehe. Courtesy car baby...then you just take a tarp and drape it over the wing. Camping camping campin. Lewiston was part of my cross country solo. :) Walla Walla.

Tell your dad if he is still kicking hello.


Went up to CDL just to go golfing for the weekend with two buddies. Got fogged in.....didn't get out until Monday right before classes.

My neck of the woods Currently:




This one is a pilot killer for those who do not know the area.

We used to have a cabin not too far from an old forrest service strip. My dad put in a windsock and we used it. Then at the cabin we had an old Willie's Jeep we would bring up for the summer. Man, I was always scared that old Jeep would break down and leave us stranded but it never did. The horn was just a piece of wire on the steering wheel hub and it would shoot sparks all over the place if you honked the horn. Some good memories there. I remember if we had a plane full of people he would wait until right before sunset to take off to take advantage of the cold air so we could miss the big ass mountain at the end of the runway. Fun but scary at times. What scared the shit out of people that never flew with us before was the signal going off from the end of runway beacon flying into our home airport. That thing was loud as hell and would make the unnacustomed shit their pants thinking it was an engine alarm or something. Most my friends dads had their pilots licenses. Different times. If you were middle class you could have a plane and boat in those days.

[Nitro Express]

It's all in the takeoff baby...without that...there would be no landing.

:)

Let me roll up on the sidewalk and take a look!

If you have some good acid man yeah you deffinately can take off. Sometimes those landings are rough though.

[SunisinuS]

Yea. Man Yea. Times are always going forward. The sports license now. All I can hope for now is a personal amphibious X plane that I can fly off of John Denver's ashes. I will not stop though. So like you and your dad.....we will continue to fly. Period.

http://kerslake.net/images/FatAlbert.jpg

[Nitro Express]

http://youtu.be/QsgiEubacT0

Every now and then I will see Harrison Ford's DeHavilland flying above the valley here.

[Nitro Express]

Yea. Man Yea. Times are always going forward. The sports license now. All I can hope for now is a personal amphibious X plane that I can fly off of John Denver's ashes. I will not stop though. So like you and your dad.....we will continue to fly. Period.

http://www.pbase.com/wvphoto/image/135985276

The real flying junky is my brother in law. He's been a commercial pilot for about 30 years. He's flying for Delta now. If he's not flying for work he is flying some kind of cool small plane. He flys everyday whether it's for work or fun. I will be flying and we will be going up and down and I turn the yoke over to him and it's dead steady. He makes it look easy.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

http://news.yahoo.com/3-dead-56-injured-horrific-reno-air-show-020656982.htmlhttp://http://news.yahoo.com/3-dead-56-injured-horrific-reno-air-show-020656982.html

[SunisinuS]

You know that this is the nation recognized for doing flight...Wright?


So even when the world hurts....and the chances we take seem to be leading towards death.....without Flight....where would this country be?

[Nitro Express]

Kudo to a fellow pilot. Cherokee 6528Charlie says hello.

I spent many hours in a Piper Cherokee myself. Kind of gave the tail end some gravel rash from landing it on gravel runways though. I'm flying a Mooney now. Too nice to land on gravel and oh yes retractable gear is nice unless you forget to put it down. Got to have that on the checklist. LOL!

[Nitro Express]

You know that this is the nation recognized for doing flight...Wright?


So even when the world hurts....and the chances we take seem to be leading towards death.....without Flight....where would this country be?

What amazes me about the Wright Brothers is modern technicians and engineers try to recreate their planes and what they did and always end up failing. They can't do it as well as the Wright Brothers did. Also, that simple wing lift mechanism they designed is very accurate. You don't realize how gifted and brilliant those guys were until people today try to copy what they did.

[SunisinuS]

I spent many hours in a Piper Cherokee myself. Kind of gave the tail end some gravel rash from landing it on gravel runways though. I'm flying a Mooney now. Too nice to land on gravel and oh yes retractable gear is nice unless you forget to put it down. Got to have that on the checklist. LOL!


Envious of the Mooney. Sweet sliding well designed airplane. Please always do your checklist and fear the weather ok?

[Nitro Express]

http://news.yahoo.com/3-dead-56-injured-horrific-reno-air-show-020656982.htmlhttp://http://news.yahoo.com/3-dead-56-injured-horrific-reno-air-show-020656982.html

It's too bad it crashed into the crowd. I know when the Blue Angels did an air show in Idaho Falls they closed off I-15 and used it as a safe corridor to fly over. In Seattle as Sea Fair they always fly over Lake Washington. Things happen and planes crash. The most dangerous place to be in an airplane is close to the ground because you have very little time to do anything. It's always thrilling to see a plane fly fast and low overhead or come for the stands low and fast and then pull up but if you lose an engine or have control problems you go into the crowd.

[Nitro Express]

Envious of the Mooney. Sweet sliding well designed airplane. Please always do your checklist and fear the weather ok?

You sound like my dad. Flying is like scuba diving. It's too easy to kill yourself if you do one little thing wrong. I'm a completely different person in the cockpit. I'm more serious than I normally am. People recognize that right off. Especially when you have passengers. It's one thing to kill yourself but it's a whole other thing to kill others and be responsible for that and know they will blame your family for it and all that. So yeah, I'm careful.

Mooneys are so fast for what they are. Very slick planes. Not the best plane for beginners that's for damn sure.

[SunisinuS]

N.A.U.I. and P.A.D.I. II open water myself. So is my sister. Tough People we.


i can get air tanks accross the globe.


I used to take out air ashes for people. I would give them the flight where they could pour out their loved one's ashes.

They would never listen to the airflow.

So I would have to wash the ashes off the airplane with a hose, so clean their loved ones off the right side.

Down the Drain.

It is not easy being a pilot.

[Nitro Express]

My brother in law didn't have 20/20 vision so he couldn't be a military pilot. His goal was to be a commercial pilot. He worked as a gopher at a small airport in exchange for pilot's lessons and then he started to fly charter air on small shoe string airlines. Man he can tell some funny and horrifying stories. He would fly out of Las Vegas and take people over the Grand Canyon or he might fly some wetbacks back to Mexico. Then he finally got hired by Northwest Orient and flew 747 400's to Asia and back. He actually had corrective contacts that reshaped his eye lens to improve his vision and now with surgery they can improve your vision. But he did all this at a time when there were always ex military pilots to compete with. Now he's flying an Airbus and is going to Europe. He's used to four engines over the drink and he says when he looks at the throttle bank and then all the water ahead he gets nervous with only two. He doesn't dig the Airbus. He hates having no manual backup to the computerized fly by wire system. He absolutely hates the steering wheel for taxiing the plane. He says you barely turn the thing and the plane whips around too much. He says it a bigger fucking pain to taxi the damn thing than to fly it. LOL!

[Nitro Express]

"You can pull her off anytime you wish captain." The comments from the tower crack me up every time I watch this. Ivan is probably shitting himself wondering why the plane isn't lifting off like it does in ice cold Siberia. LOL!

[fifth element]

I don't know , Ford. I was a CAP and an Aviation Explorer, part of that was hosting an Air Show. We never had any deaths. There are 1000's of Air Shows, but the one that make the news are the one that give death to the ratings thirsty.
Cheers!

thank you Blaze.

It is like anything else...shark attacks, cars, trains, and most of what goes on in life. We don't hear reports if everything is calm and cool, or while things go well....

Let something go wrong, however, and it will make the news, the papers and the internet in seconds.

[BITEYOASS]

I've been to many airshows and will continue to attend them. Being in Iraq and having aircraft fly less than 100 ft over me is what eliminates my fear of airshows.

[Nitro Express]

I've been to many airshows and will continue to attend them. Being in Iraq and having aircraft fly less than 100 ft over me is what eliminates my fear of airshows.

We are just bags of water existing in a world full of sharp corners. If you are scared of dying then you will never do anything or leave the house and then you will die slipping on a bar of soap in the shower.

[LoungeMachine]

One of the spectators killed on the ground was the best friend of a musician buddy of mine.

:gulp:

RIP Greg Morcom

[Diamondjimi]

Sorry to hear that Lounge. I wonder why they don't have these events over water?

[Nitro Express]

One of the spectators killed on the ground was the best friend of a musician buddy of mine.

:gulp:

RIP Greg Morcom

Sorry to hear that. I know it's more thrilling to be closer to the planes but I think after this they are going to distance the crowd away from where the planes fly.

[Blaze]

That is very sad to read, Lounge Machine. It is always sad when a show turns tragic. :(

More bad news

1 killed in 2nd deadly air show crash in 24 hours

MARTINSBURG, W.Va. (AP) — The second deadly air show crash in 24 hours has left one pilot dead in West Virginia and prompted the National Transportation Safety Board to dispatch an investigator to the site where an aerobatic demonstration plane plunged into a runway and exploded as spectators looked on.

Thousands of people were watching from a distance but no one was injured when a T-28 fixed-wing plane in a civilian aerobatics group wobbled and crashed Saturday, authorities said. Many in the crowd hugged each other and cried after seeing the aircraft appear to disintegrate in a fireball.

The ill-fated aircraft was part of a T-28 acrobatic team that tours the nation performing in air shows such as the Thunder Over the Blue Ridge airshow organized over the weekend at an airport near Martinsburg, according to Gen. James Hoyer, West Virginia Air National Guard adjutant.

The rest of the air show, including Sunday's planned performances, were canceled.

http://news.yahoo.com/1-killed-2nd-deadly-air-show-crash-24-094927692.html

NTSB TO PROBE RACE SAFETY

The incidents raised questions about the safety of air shows and races, and Rosenkind said investigators would evaluate the Reno Air Races to see if proper safety protocols were followed.

On August 20, the pilot of an aerobatic airplane died in a fiery crash in front of onlookers at a weekend air show in Kansas City. The following day a wingwalker fell to his death at an air show near Detroit as he tried to climb onto a helicopter in midair.

But proximity to the planes is clearly a draw for the annual Reno race, which advises on its website, "Always remember to fly low, fly fast and turn left."

Mike Draper, a spokesman for the races, said the planes sometimes fly at high speeds "about 50 feet off the ground and it's an exciting, exciting sight."

The thrill has been a deadly one on occasion, with the nine deaths on Friday marking 28 people killed in the history of the race, flown every year in Reno since 1964, Draper confirmed.

Reno Mayor Bob Cashell told reporters this year marked the first time that spectators had been killed, saying that past fatalities had been limited to pilots.

In an interview for the May issue of Sport Aviation magazine Leeward, who bought the plane in 1983, described the modifications he made to the fighter, saying he had trimmed the wings by 10 feet, among other things.

The magazine said it was built during World War II and named after Chicago Bears running back Red Grange, who went by the nickname "The Galloping Ghost."

Asked by the magazine how fast his plane could go, he said: "There are some things you never tell the competition and that's one of them. But it's fast. Really fast."

A website for Leeward Air Ranch Racing Team features pictures of "The Galloping Ghost" and says such planes can race at more than 500 miles per hour.

"These (pilots) are always on the edge knowing one wrong move, in one split second, could mean the end," the site says.
By Saturday afternoon, makeshift memorials had sprung up at the airfield north of Reno, including flowers and tiny white, wooden crosses memorializing the dead.

A wooden sign leaning against a fence read: "To the men, women, and children who lost their lives on 16 September 2011 you're in God's hands now. Rest in peace. galloping ghost #177 clear for take off ... fly to the angels."

(Additional reporting by Dan Whitcomb and Mary Slosson; Writing by Dan Whitcomb; Editing by Ellen Wulfhorst)

http://news.yahoo.com/death-toll-nevada-air-crash-rises-nine-000530761.html


:( Racing is just a dangerous sport. So is "wing walking"

But many Air Shows happen all across the country. Many are just like regular car shows, no racing or undue risk taking. There is a lot to admire and watch when skilled pilots exhibit their years of training. Flying in formation, simple dust cropping skills, and the like to the layman is a delight to watch.
I would like to think that the extra risk taking occurring is due to the pressing economy. However, there has always been a certain segment of aviation that practice skills of undue risk.

[lesfunk]

They do actually DJ. The Reno Air Races have been around for a very long time but the modern air races have pilots flying Extra 300's and Edge 540's through an obstacle course against the stopwatch. I think red bull sponsored them.

[lesfunk]

This will no doubt be used as the government's excuse to ground vintage aircraft. They've been wanting to do this for a long time.

[lesfunk]

Hey Sinusitis and Nitro I could tell you some airplane stories for sure...
To those who think airplanes are dangerous, I disagree. Flying Aircraft is not inherently dangerous. It is however, very intolerant of negligence or error in judgment on the part of the operator.
Those of you who fly will agree with me when I say that The experience of piloting an aircraft is 100 times worth any risk associated with it.

[Seshmeister]

I wouldn't say that flying aircraft is particularly dangerous, but I think airshows are.

[FORD]

Yeah, it's not so much the planes themselves but rather the closeness of the audience. If you get a mechanical fuckup in your "trim tab" (part of the tail) that causes the plane to go vertical, then the pilot can pretty much kiss his ass goodbye, and that sucks for him, but, absent an air show, he wouldn't have taken 8 others with him.

At the very least, I'll bet they don't have "box seats" at this event in the future. Had the entire audience been in the bleachers when this crash happened, I doubt there would have been any other casualties at all, since the flying debris didn't seem to go that far, from the videos I've seen.

[Seshmeister]

After watching the Ukraine air show disaster on line a few months ago I vowed I would never go to one of those things.

Absolutely horrific.

I realise that statistically there is an argument that hundreds of them go off with no problem but the footage of bits of the 19 dead kids strewn all over the place was pretty convincing that standing underneath planes doing acrobatics with your family was taking a needless risk.

[Nitro Express]

I wouldn't say that flying aircraft is particularly dangerous, but I think airshows are.

Flying an aircraft low to the ground and pushing it hard is dangerous. Flying in the Reno air races is dangerous. The most dangerous part of flying is take off and final approach. If you lose an engine then you don't have time to restart it. Being up higher buys you time.

Air shows can be made safer by distancing the crowd from where the planes are flying. Notice at Reno the plane crashed into the VIP section. Why? Those were the seats closest to the action.

The closer you are the more thrilling but the plane might just crash where you are observing from. Maybe they should have general seating in a safe distanced area and then post it that you may be hit by airplane wreckage past a certain point. At least let the people know the risk they are taking.

I ski in avalanche areas and they post the dangers and let everyone know past that point you are on your own. I know how to read the snow and there are some days you do it and other days it's suicide to go in there. The fabulous untouched powder is worth the risk. I've done it for years.

[fifth element]

kudos to all of you pilots ...you're all doing something that i would have loved to try, but never got around to.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

kudos to all of you pilots ...you're all doing something that i would have loved to try, but never got around to.

ya need one of these?

http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/2458600.jpg

[Nitro Express]

kudos to all of you pilots ...you're all doing something that i would have loved to try, but never got around to.

Flying has always been expensive but right now it's really expensive and it's all about flight hours. The more the better. What's funny is my flight instructor said so many beginning pilots use a flight simulator program to learn the instrument panel that when you get them into a real plane you have to tell them to look out the fucking window instead of being fixated on the instruments all the time.

He said before those programs became available you were always trying to get the newbies to learn their instruments and stop relying on visual references so much. Now he says instruments are no longer the challenge they were common sense seems to be missing. LOL!

Really if you want to start flying get you one of those flight simulator programs and go to it. You can actually learn a lot from them and will be better prepared than if you just showed up to a flight school with zero experience. You can learn the instrument panel, how to navigate, how to do a controlled turn. You can kill yourself many times over without actually dying. That's where I would start.

[fifth element]

thx, Nitro, my son actually has one of those Simulator programs, given to him from a friend of ours who is a pilot....
I'll have to give it a shot one day.

[Nitro Express]

thx, Nitro, my son actually has one of those Simulator programs, given to him from a friend of ours who is a pilot....
I'll have to give it a shot one day.

You can actually get real flight hours on simulator now. I got real stick time very young. My dad would let me fly his plane. He would tell me the compass heading and the altitude. I always went up in altitude though. I wasn't even big enough to reach the rudder pedals with my feet or see over the instrument panel. My job during the pre flight was to go under the wing and bleed the tank bottoms. I was short enough that I could get under the wing of a Piper Cherokee no problem.

[lesfunk]

Some pics just before impact

[Nitro Express]

With the G's that plane was pulling I'm sure the pilot blacked out before it crashed. He barely had time to shit his pants. If he was up higher he probably could have recovered from it and landed the plane. Pushing things that hard that low is extremely dangerous. Flying the air races is also very taxing on your body because of the high G load.

[SunisinuS]

The fight of flight goes on:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/world/americas/af447-transcript/index.html?iref=obinsite