Do Crosses at Catholic University Violate “Human Rights” of Muslims?

[BigBadBrian]

LINK (http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/muslims-want-catholic-school-to-provide-room-without-crosses.html)
Do Crosses at Catholic University Violate “Human Rights” of Muslims?

The Washington, D.C. Office of Human Rights confirmed that it is investigating allegations that Catholic University violated the human rights of Muslim students by not allowing them to form a Muslim student group and by not providing them rooms without Christian symbols for their daily prayers.

The investigation alleges that Muslim students “must perform their prayers surrounded by symbols of Catholicism – e.g., a wooden crucifix, paintings of Jesus, pictures of priests and theologians which many Muslim students find inappropriate.”

A spokesperson for the Office of Human Rights told Fox News they had received a 60-page complaint against the private university. The investigation, they said, could take as long a six months.

The complaint was filed by John Banzhaf, an attorney and professor at George Washington University Law School. Banzhaf has been involved in previous litigation against the school involving the same-sex residence halls. He also alleged in his complaint involving Muslim students that women at the university were being discriminated against. You can read more on those allegations by clicking here.

Banzhaf said some Muslim students were particularly offended because they had to meditate in the school’s chapels “and at the cathedral that looms over the entire campus – the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.”

“It shouldn’t be too difficult somewhere on the campus for the university to set aside a small room where Muslims can pray without having to stare up and be looked down upon by a cross of Jesus,” he told Fox News.

A spokesman for Catholic University released a statement to Fox News indicating they had not seen any legal filings — but would respond once they do.

“Our faithfulness to our Catholic tradition has also made us a welcome home to students of other religions,” said Victor Nakas, associate vice president for public affairs. “No students have registered complaints about the exercise of their religions on our campus.”

In a 2010 interview with National Public Radio, university president John Garvey acknowledged that they don’t set aside prayer rooms for Muslim students.

“We make classrooms available, or our chapels are places where they can pray,” he told NPR. “We don’t offer Halal meat, although there are always meals that conform to Halal regulations, that allow students to do what they want.”

Banzhaf said that it is technically not illegal for Catholic University to refuse to provide rooms devoid of religious icons.


“It may not be illegal, but it suggests they are acting improperly and probably with malice,” he said. “They do have to pray five times a day, they have to look around for empty classrooms and to be sitting there trying to do Muslim prayers with a big cross looking down or a picture of Jesus or a picture of the Pope is not very conductive to their religion.”

As for the creation of a Muslim student group, Banzhaf said the university has an association of Jewish students – so why not a Muslim group?

“I think they are entitled as a matter of law to be able to form a Muslim student association and to have the same privileges as associations,” he said. “I think that most of them would much prefer to have a place to pray – that they are not surrounded by various Catholic symbols – a place that is more conductive to their religious beliefs than being surrounded by pictures of Popes.”

Garvey, in his 2010 interview with NPR, addressed that issue.

“It’s just not something that we view as an activity that we want to sponsor because we’re a Catholic institution rather than Muslim,” he said.

Patrick Reilly, the president of the Cardinal Newman Society, an organization that promotes Catholic identity among Catholic schools, seemed stunned by the complaint.

“I don’t know what the attorney wants them to do – if he wants them to actually move the Basilica or if the Muslim students can find someplace where they don’t have to look at it,” he told Fox News.

Catholic University, he said, is a Catholic institution.

“One wouldn’t expect a Jewish institution to be responsible for providing liturgical opportunities for other faiths and I wouldn’t expect a Catholic institution to do that,” he said.

“This attorney is really turning civil rights on its head,” he said. “He’s using the law for his own discrimination against the Catholic institution and essentially saying Catholic University cannot operate according to Catholic principles.”

[Unchainme]

If you're attending a religious university like BYU, Catholic U., Oral Roberts, etc, and chose to go there on your account of own free-will, then it's your own stupid fault.

I'm even thinking this...if you attend a secular university, I fail to see as to why you should receive special treatment over those of the Christian, Jewish, Buddhist faith in practicing their beliefs. If you get something to accommodate your religion, than I for example have the full right to celebrate Christmas and see "Merry Christmas" on various signs throughout campus.

I can see very much so getting maybe a prayer room or something, or getting days off for your religious holidays, so long as Christians, and Jews are afforded the same opp.

[Kristy]

Being a ex-Catholic myself I'd say find yourself another school if the one your are attending now is a private university.

[Nitro Express]

We have separation of church and state but that is regarding having a state religion or religion being promoted by the government. We also have the first amendment that protects freedom of religion. So if it's not the government, you have the right to use religious symbolism. The muslims just think they are the only true religion and they want to push their religion on everyone else but have nobody else have a right to their freedom of expression. The institutions give in out of fear they will be targeted by ape shit muslims. It's called intimidation and we need to tell them to fuck off.

[Nitro Express]

BYU is busting as the seams because the Mormon Church subsidizes the tuition costs. It's the only good thing about paying Mormon tithing. Right now to get in you have to have a 4.0 GPA and a very high SAT score. The downside is you have to take some extra religion classes, there is a dress code on campus (no shorts allowed), and have a bishops interview and his approval to get in. The payoff is you can get a good job coming out of there. A college degree from BYU still beats no degree at all. People know it's a hard school to get into and they assume you are smart by graduating from there even if they think Mormons are nuts. I mean a good GPA from Nortre Dame or Fordham isn't going to hurt you.

The Mormon church wants it's members to be financially successful. They want BYU graduates to land good jobs. It's a no brainer because Mormons pay 10% of their gross to the church. They don't want their members in trailer courts. They like rich members and so BYU is part of the scheme and they really do make an effort to make sure a degree from there will get you a job.

[Seshmeister]

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[Nitro Express]

For a second there I thought he was going to say catholic priests shit out a brick of pure cocaine.

[Satan]

I guess the obvious question would be WHY a Muslim student would want to attend a Catholic university in the first place. Or BYU, or Pat Robertson's school,or any other school obviously founded for the purpose of advocating a religion that isn't theirs.

Saw an article the other day about some transgendered chick who is being kicked out of a Baptist university. While it's obviously wrong of the school to discriminate on that basis, how did s/he not know exactly what would happen in a school owned by homophobic/transphobic bigots?

[SunisinuS]

I guess the obvious question is why not? Tolerance is all talk until it is put to the test.

I am sure that BBB would love to have his daughter marry a Islamic Man. It will show the true test of his Christianity.

After all...if you talk the talk you can walk the walk right?

"Whatever you neglected to do unto one of these least of these, you neglected to do unto Me".

Matthew 25:40.

[Kristy]

Separation of church and state has nothing to do with this. If you attend a private institution you play by their rules. Currently, my roommate is getting her Master's in counseling at Denver Seminary and while she is not highly religious herself part of her education for going there is to mandatory attend a chapel service either on Tuesday or Thursday. You either attend to get kicked out there is no alternative. Denver Seminary makes this clear so why are a bunch of whiny Muslim cry babies bitching about a private university rules and regulations? The must have known about them before attending.

[Nitro Express]

Separation of church and state has nothing to do with this. If you attend a private institution you play by their rules. Currently, my roommate is getting her Master's in counseling at Denver Seminary and while she is not highly religious herself part of her education for going there is to mandatory attend a chapel service either on Tuesday or Thursday. You either attend to get kicked out there is no alternative. Denver Seminary makes this clear so why are a bunch of whiny Muslim cry babies bitching about a private university rules and regulations? The must have known about them before attending.

Exactly. It's unconstitutional to have the government force you to attend a chapel service but if you join a private institution they can. I mean if you want to attend Brigham Young University they lay it down in detail what is going to be expected of you as a student. They make you sign an agreement before you are accepted. No different than joining a country club. You have rules there. Lots of them in fact. If I don't replace a divit or fuck up the greens, I'm in big ass trouble.

[SunisinuS]

That is the point.....if you want a white country club to stay white then never let a black person join. Sorry...I as a black person might just sneak in.....Den wat deh fuck you going to do?


i am a 900lb pound black person.


Ooops...maybe not.


Black Cows hate White Cows hate Christian Cows hate Mormon cows Hate jewish cows Hate Buddhist cows Hate Religious Dumbshits.


(----Son of a Preacher Man.


Hope you religious fucks keep all of that "secret fire" to yourselves.

Comedy.

[Nitro Express]

No. I usually get pissed at the rich black members of the club who play too slow and won't let me play through.

[Blaze]

I call shenanigans!!!!! Fox news is full of bollycocks and anyone that would use them for a press release is full of bollycocks.

A spokesman for Catholic University released a statement to Fox News indicating they had not seen any legal filings — but would respond once they do.

“Our faithfulness to our Catholic tradition has also made us a welcome home to students of other religions,” said Victor Nakas, associate vice president for public affairs. “No students have registered complaints about the exercise of their religions on our campus.”


The article is very poorly written. The writer is mixing one topic with another making it seem as if it is all one event and occurrence, in addition he does not clarify by which person said what, making it read as if that this person said this when it was another that said it.

MSA sure, if there is an JSA. But separate prayer rooms, only if there are separate prayer rooms for other faiths. And the litmus for that is. Are there prayer rooms in the Vatican that accommodating guests from other faiths? In other words, how does the Vatican handle extended guests of other faiths?

[Blaze]

Suni,
Son of a preacher man is not the same as son of a priest..... unless maybe your mother was predatory victim of a preacher :drum:

<--------A person whom father’s blood, sweat, and tears are part of Cathedrals.

[Nitro Express]

Are there prayer rooms in the Vatican that accommodating guests from other faiths? In other words, how does the Vatican handle extended guests of other faiths?

The Vatican is it's own country. It's a theocracy ran by the pope. They do what they damn well please there and the US law does not apply there. Having been to the vatican myself there is pretty much the attitude that they are the only true church. Of course I had the choice whether to step over the white line into St. Peter's Square or to remain in Italy.

The US didn't officially recognize the vatican until Ronald Reagan changed that. People rose a huge stink when Kennedy won the election saying now the pope was going to run the US. Frankly, I'm no fan of the catholic church so if we want to go back to ignoring them, fine with me.

[Blaze]

The Vatican is it's own country. It's a theocracy ran by the pope. They do what they damn well please there and the US law does not apply there. Having been to the vatican myself there is pretty much the attitude that they are the only true church. Of course I had the choice whether to step over the white line into St. Peter's Square on to remain in Italy.
:flame:
Wow, you sound a bit bitter. I did not ask if you got mad about going to the Vatican and could you recite facts from wiki.

I asked how does the Vatican handle extended guest of other faiths.

I have not conducted research through the Vatican portals in quite some times....
I thought perhaps someone might know the answer as general knowledge.

Did you stay through the night when you visited the Vatican?

[Nitro Express]

Suni,
Son of a preacher man is not the same as son of a priest..... unless maybe your mother was predatory victim of a preacher :drum:

<--------A person whom father’s blood, sweat, and tears are part of Cathedrals.

A preacher man can marry a woman and have a legitimate son. A Catholic priest can not. A son of a priest is a real scandal. My main question is how does one make a son from fucking boys?:biggrin:

[FORD]

Priests sometimes fuck girls too. Didn't you ever see "The Thorn Birds"

(irony there of course, is that the hetero priest was portrayed by the very gay Richard Chamberlain)

[Nitro Express]

:flame:
Wow, you sound a bit bitter. I did not ask if you got mad about going to the Vatican and could you recite facts from wiki.

I asked how does the Vatican handle extended guest of other faiths.

I have not conducted research through the Vatican portals in quite some times....
I thought perhaps someone might know the answer as general knowledge.

Did you stay through the night when you visited the Vatican?

I have been to the vatican about five times. I am interested in art especially Michelangeo. Plenty to see at the Vatican and they are especially good at letting you get up real close to it if you have permission. I even climbed to the top of the dome on St. Peter's. The vatican is a combination of some really nice people and some real assholes. I got a real lashing one time that the US was down on it's donations to the church. The one funny thing was a girl fainted and went into a seizer. The Swiss guards came to the rescue in their armor, helmets, swords, and pikes. LOL! I got to watch these middle ages looking dudes administer medical care to her. It was quite the picture. Then the medical team came in. No radios either. One of them had to hoof it to a phone somewhere. It's pretty much like going back 500 years in the place.

[Blaze]

Priests sometimes fuck girls too. Didn't you ever see "The Thorn Birds"

(irony there of course, is that the hetero priest was portrayed by the very gay Richard Chamberlain)

Or "Agnes of God" based on a true story, also.

[Nitro Express]

My sister lived in Peru and they were escavating an old catholic church and they found a bunch a infant skeletons in a pit in the basement. They figure the priests were fucking the nuns and when the nuns would give birth the baby got tossed into the pit. They also loved to destroy any of the native culture as much as they could and usually built the cathedral from stone stollen from a native holy monument. Some dark shit in South America regarding the church.

[Blaze]

I have been to the vatican about five times. I am interested in art especially Michelangeo. Plenty to see at the Vatican and they are especially good at letting you get up real close to it if you have permission. I even climbed to the top of the dome on St. Peter's. The vatican is a combination of some really nice people and some real assholes. I got a real lashing one time that the US was down on it's donations to the church. The one funny thing was a girl fainted and went into a seizer. The Swiss guards came to the rescue in their armor, helmets, swords, and pikes. LOL! I got to watch these middle ages looking dudes administer medical care to her. It was quite the picture. Then the medical team came in. No radios either. One of them had to hoof it to a phone somewhere. It's pretty much like going back 500 years in the place.

Cool. So what's the Edict for extended guests?

[Nitro Express]

I just view the vatican as one of history's great scams with a lot of good people caught up in it. The best way to hide evil is to cover it with good. Much like how oligarchs fuck us over with philanthropy. Hey, when you are in the house of Satan, you still want to check out the artwork.

[Blaze]

I just view the vatican as one of history's great scams with a lot of good people caught up in it. The best way to hide evil is to cover it with good. Much like how oligarchs fuck us over with philanthropy. Hey, when you are in the house of Satan, you still want to check out the artwork.
Confess! Did you do anything naughty while visiting the Vatican? :focus:

[Nitro Express]

Cool. So what's the Edict for extended guests?

Hell if I know. It's amazingly open. You can just walk right in to St. Peter's off the street. They have guards posted where you can't go. If you want a tour or to see something specific you call and make arrangements. I never stayed the night there. It's in the middle of Rome, so plenty of other places to stay. I mean the Vatican is really old. A new addition there means they did it 500 years ago. I was looking at Constantine's mothers throne. It's about 2000 years old. It was still in amazing shape. They have taken really good care of the artifacts over all the years.

[SunisinuS]

I have been and seen the vat and the pope as well...we walked out on him. Sorry....no deference to bullshit.

[Blaze]

Hell if I know. It's amazingly open. You can just walk right in to St. Peter's off the street. They have guards posted where you can't go. If you want a tour or to see something specific you call and make arrangements. I never stayed the night there. It's in the middle of Rome, so plenty of other places to stay. I mean the Vatican is really old. A new addition there means they did it 500 years ago. I was looking at Constantine's mothers throne. It's about 2000 years old. It was still in amazing shape. They have taken really good care of the artifacts over all the years.
Stay on topic... You must have done something naughty while visiting the Vatican. What did you do? Confess!!!

[FORD]

I'm wondering when the Catholics are going to have a pope named George Ringo, since they already had two John Pauls. (Admittedly, the first one might as well have been named Pope Stu Sutcliffe, since he wasn't around for long)

[Nitro Express]

Confess! Did you do anything naughty while visiting the Vatican? :focus:

My sister and I did some sneaking around the papal palace area. We got caught by the Swiss guards. They just escorted us out into St. Peters. They could have kicked us out. What's interesting is there is a lot of Egyptian stuff in the vatican. Out in the more public areas you see biblical story based art but in the inner off the beat areas it's egyptian art. Later I realized they never gave up the pagan sun god worship. It's still the old egyptian/roman paganism covered with christianity. They sell jesus on the outside and worship the sun on the inside. If you look at St. Peter's square from the dome it's a big sun dial with an egyptian oblisk in the middle. Lot's of sundials and equinox markers.

[SunisinuS]

My sister and I did some sneaking around the papal palace area. We got caught by the Swiss guards. They just escorted us out into St. Peters. They could have kicked us out. What's interesting is there is a lot of Egyptian stuff in the vatican. Out in the more public areas you see biblical story based art but in the inner off the beat areas it's egyptian art. Later I realized they never gave up the pagan sun god worship. It's still the old egyptian/roman paganism covered with christianity. They sell jesus on the outside and worship the sun on the inside. If you look at St. Peter's square from the dome it's a big sun dial with an egyptian oblisk in the middle. Lot's of sundials and equinox markers.

True Dat. Catholic bunch of same old same old.....lol. But hey.....not wearing a slicker on your willie is biblical!

Btw...the Sun rotates around the earth....and gallilaaaahoooy is a hooooodlum!

[Nitro Express]

VATICAN CITY - The Vatican called Monday for radical reform of the world's financial systems, including the creation of a global political authority to manage the economy.

A proposal by the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace calls for a new world economic order based on ethics and the "achievement of a universal common good." It follows Pope Benedict XVI's 2009 economic encyclical that denounced a profit-at-all-cost mentality as responsible for the global financial meltdown.

The proposal acknowledges, however, that a "long road still needs to be travelled before arriving at the creation of a public authority with universal jurisdiction" and suggests the reform process begin with the United Nations as a point of reference.

Vatican pronouncements on the economy are meant to guide world leaders as well as the global church. United States Roman Catholic bishops, for example, have released a voter guide for the 2012 election that highlights social concerns such as ending poverty.

"It is an exercise of responsibility not only toward the current but above all toward future generations, so that hope for a better future and confidence in human dignity and capacity for good may never be extinguished," the document said.

It highlights that reforms must assure that financial and monetary policies will not damage the weakest economies while also achieving fair distribution of the world's wealth.

The proposal also called for a "minimum, shared body of rules to manage the global financial market," lamenting the "overall abrogation of controls" on capital movements.

While past Vatican pronouncements have condemned unfettered capitalism, the latest criticized "an economic liberalism that spurns rules and controls."

It also attacked "utilitarian thinking," saying what is useful to the individual does not always favour the common good.

Makes you wonder is the Vatican was behind the EU and some of the other banking shenanigans. They probably are sitting on a shit load of gold they could back a real currency with and bam, the evil church is back in control.

[Blaze]

My sister and I did some sneaking around the papal palace area. We got caught by the Swiss guards. They just escorted us out into St. Peters. They could have kicked us out. What's interesting is there is a lot of Egyptian stuff in the vatican. Out in the more public areas you see biblical story based art but in the inner off the beat areas it's egyptian art. Later I realized they never gave up the pagan sun god worship. It's still the old egyptian/roman paganism covered with christianity. They sell jesus on the outside and worship the sun on the inside. If you look at St. Peter's square from the dome it's a big sun dial with an egyptian oblisk in the middle. Lot's of sundials and equinox markers.
Your sister? How long ago were these visits of yours?

[Nitro Express]

True Dat. Catholic bunch of same old same old.....lol. But hey.....not wearing a slicker on your willie is biblical!

Btw...the Sun rotates around the earth....and gallilaaaahoooy is a hooooodlum!

I've read the bible more than once. The King James version of it so I'm not familiar with the catholic bible. That being said the KJV says it's better to spill thy seed in a belly of a whore than to spill it on the ground. You can't spill seed with a piece of latex on your dick and don't pull out and don't jerk off. Also, you can have multiple wives and concubines. I guess if you call your mistress a concubine, it's not adultry.

[Nitro Express]

Your sister? How long ago were these visits of yours?

That was in 1978. We were just kids. My latest visit was five years ago. The Vatican changes very little. Other than the Sistine Chapel getting cleaned and different cars running around, same shit.

[Nitro Express]

This is the way I see it. The Ten Commandments only states adultry as a sin. So you can fornicate all you want but the Ten Commandments is overshadowed by Abraham having many concubines. So just fuck before marriage and whoever you fuck besides your wife while married call her a concubine and you are ok. No law broken.

When you start to actually think about the Ten Commandments they start to disapear.

[Blaze]

This is the way I see it. The Ten Commandments only states adultry as a sin. So you can fornicate all you want but the Ten Commandments is overshadowed by Abraham having many concubines. So just fuck before marriage and whoever you fuck besides your wife while married call her a concubine and you are ok. No law broken.

When you start to actually think about the Ten Commandments they start to disapear.


Did you do it in the Vatican?

[Nitro Express]

Did you do it in the Vatican?

The place is one big crypt basically. Under the floor of the church lies dead bodies. Not exactly a romantic place. You get laid after going for a nice stroll at night up the spanish steps.

[Nitro Express]

I really don't think religion has the control over people now that it once did. I don't think our population is as controlled by religion as it is by banking. A central bank chairman can affect everyones lives with an interest rate number. No religion on the planet or even politician has that kind of power. If people were smart they would be protesting outside the Federal Reserve and White House demanding that an audit takes place. All this talk about wanting their fair share. Fair share of what? It's a bigger issue than just taxes. It's the interest rate and the bonds.

Who cares about religion. It's so has been.

Even the Vatican knows it. That's why they want to be a bigger player in world banking. Isis to Jesus and now debt slavery to a central bank. Get everyone into debt and then consolidate the debt. All in the name of consumerism. Christmas shopping is the new worship and banking fees and debt are the new tithing.

[Seshmeister]

You're money obsessed. :)

[Blaze]

I am always for audits. Indeed, audits should be standard. ~ Goodnight.

[Little Texan]

I am always for audits. Indeed, audits should be standard. ~ Goodnight.

So, I guess you would be pleased as punch if the IRS showed up at your door to audit your taxes.

[Nitro Express]

I used to be an auditor. I got bored as hell and had to do something else. The most exciting part of the job was I was taking physical inventory at an oil refinery and actually had to climb on top of those big ass tanks and look into the hatch to see if the oil was actually there. There are auditors that love it. My accountant loves dealing with all the tax code bullshit. To me it's just man made waste. He loves it. It's like a game to him. Each to their own. The thing is, the excited person is going to be the best at it. A good auditor can sniff out cooked books pretty quick where a less of an auditor will miss it.

[Blaze]

So, I guess you would be pleased as punch if the IRS showed up at your door to audit your taxes.
Punch can be pleased?
The figure of Punch derives from the Neapolitan stock character of Pulcinella, which was anglicised to Punchinello. He is a manifestation of the Lord of Misrule and Trickster figures of deep-rooted mythologies. Punch's wife was originally called "Joan."

Pulcinella, Italian pronunciation: [pultʃiˈnɛlla]; often called Punch or Punchinello in English, Polichinelle in French, is a classical character that originated in the commedia dell'arte of the 17th century and became a stock character in Neapolitan puppetry.

According to Pierre-Louis Duchartre, his traditional temperament is to be mean, vicious, and crafty: his main mode of defense is to pretend to be too stupid to know what's going on, and his secondary mode is to physically beat people.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Joseph_Faverot_-_L%27ivresse_de_Polichinelle.jpg/240px-Joseph_Faverot_-_L%27ivresse_de_Polichinelle.jpg

[Blaze]

However, it would be pleasing to have a bit of punch
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LaayJVYtK58/SMm5vxeBAII/AAAAAAAAA60/HBHuojgnTUY/s400/bonestand.jpg

with the scent of punch lingering in the air
http://www.jjfox.co.uk/images/prodimages/101732_1.jpg

while watching the delicateness of punches
http://content8.eol.org/content/2009/05/26/01/33085_large.jpg

[Blaze]

Nevertheless, if my taxes were to be graded by the IRS, I do believe I would receive a passing grade with no issue and little effort.

I have always found that paying more than one owes is good practice. Trying to slip by on paying less than what is called for becomes worrisome. (generally speaking. It should be noted: It would be wrong to pay taxes at an income level that is not yours for exploitative purposes. ) :)

[fifth element]

A preacher man can marry a woman and have a legitimate son. A Catholic priest can not. A son of a priest is a real scandal.

fyi: there are several Catholic priests who have not only wives, but families as well.
in general, this stems from a preacher, (usually from the Episcopal church...which is closely related to Catholicism), petitions the Church to become a Catholic priest AFTER having married and begun to raise a family...

it is not common, mind you, as the work one must go through to achieve the end result is arduous and taxing not just to the preacher but to his family, as well.
(having permission granted is generally easier if ones wife is or was of the Catholic faith before marrying.)

There is one of these married priests in Pittsburg, KS, where I lived for several years...another somewhere in CA, and one that was, at some point, in Montana.
about 10 years ago there were only about 5-6 of these in the entire US....still, they do exist, as I can attest to, having met one and his family.