ron paul=awesome/kickass?

[Dr. Love]

WILLIAMS: End Fed’s power; give it to free market
By Armstrong Williams Sunday, March 11, 2012 Armstrong Williams (Courtesy of armstrongwilliams.com)

Ron Paul wants to abolish the Federal Reserve. He may be right: It is hard to see how the Fed has enhanced our economy.

Since 1971, when President Nixon ended the gold standard, the dollar’s value has been more volatile than in any previous period, not only in immediate, day-to-day volatility, but also over the long run. People often marvel that a loaf of bread used to cost a dime, but they never ask why so much inflation has occurred over these past few decades.

There are several reasons, but the biggest is undoubtedly the Fed. By devaluing the dollar, like China is doing to the yuan, the Fed and its technocrats try to encourage our exports. But as we know, the market will not permit distortions, and will punish them: This is bad policy.

Quantitative easing, author Louis Lehrman says, is just “a euphemism for money printing or credit creation.” These excess dollars go abroad as reserves, and are then invested in U.S. securities to finance the deficit. So, we receive back what we give out: We buy without paying. If economic growth were this easy, why stop printing money?

The Fed creates demand for goods and assets without increasing supply. This is a recipe for crippling inflation; it is an insult to hard-working Americans who want to pass down their wealth to their children and not see it turn to worthless paper.

Thus has the Fed has not only fed our consumer culture by financing the national debt, and discouraging savings by weakening the dollar, but it has also masked the problem of vanishing American exports, making the situation look better than it really is. How ironic that this veneer of health is actually helping foreign imports!

One of the many causes of the Great Recession, from which we are now still struggling to escape, is the seemingly endless Federal Reserve subsidies (that’s what they are) to the world banking system.

Not only did the Fed help cause the recession, but it has slowed the recovery. By keeping interest rates low, they have hurt savers and pension funds, when our nation needs above all more savings. Who wants to save a thousand dollars annually only to receive 25 basis points or $25 a year from their bank?

There is a certain irony that the financial recession was caused by overextended lending in the real-estate sector and the Fed’s solution is to reduce interest rates in that sector of the market. Does the Fed, truly, want to encourage Americans to borrow more money to invest in real estate? Our money supply has about tripled. Is this not an inflation nightmare waiting to happen?

Ron Paul of Texas deserves credit (if you pardon the pun) for raising the question of monetary policy among the general electorate. We must examine the wisdom of its independence from congressional oversight. A more moderate view, one we should all be able to agree on, is that the Federal Reserve must be subject to a public audit of its activities. Surely no one on either side of the aisle thinks it wise to put so much power in the hands of so few without any check or balance.

Steve Forbes, investing and business genius, says that it is almost inevitable that the United States return to the gold standard, which would completely take away the power of the Fed to manipulate the market and manipulate our lives. Another irony is that it is our friends on the left who fear this change and wish to preserve the status quo, afraid of the consequences of restoring convertibility to gold simply because we haven’t done it before.

By taking away the power of the Fed and giving it to the free market, we will all benefit. The market, not even the brightest and best-connected of our technocrats, knows best how to allocate resources.

Mr. Paul is 76, and if John McCain was too old to be president, then so is he. But he has already accomplished a tremendous legacy of energizing young people about liberty, and awakening us all to the quiet power of unelected men and women who tinker with our lives. He will be a symbol for years to come.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/11/williams-end-feds-power-give-it-to-free-market/

that's crazy talk! we can't trust free markets!

[LoungeMachine]

maybe I should lecture you on either your memory or your ability to understand what people are saying then

:gulp:

.


Maybe you should turn your lectures towards your failed candidate......

:gulp:

Lecturing me gets you no where....but he obviously could use your help finding a winning strategy that might get noticed.

Because as of now, he's the Sammy Hagar of GOP politics...

Everyone knows he's there, everyone knows he's spouting his mouth off, but he's not getting enough people to care enough to get him out of Chickenfoot.

Ron Paul is in the Chickenfoot of the GOP

Don't be in Chickenfoot.

[Nickdfresh]

Number of Delegates needed for the GOP Nomination = 1,144

Number of Delegates secured by Ron Paul = 33

:gulp:

Almost there!!!!!

http://www.sable-pro.net/WHERE_IS_YOUR_GOD_NOW.jpg

Thank you Lounge, for making me spit beer up on my puter screen in a moment of need.... :)

:bottle:

[Nickdfresh]

more proof that Ron Paul is racist (for jhale):

http://i.imgur.com/uNFoR.jpg

Caption this pic....

"These Negroes are so friendly and a true credit to their race!"

[BigBadBrian]

I believe FREE HEALTHCARE is a moral obligation due every citizen of this country.

There is no such thing as FREE HEALTHCARE. :thumb:

[Dr. Love]

Maybe you should turn your lectures towards your failed candidate......

:gulp:

Lecturing me gets you no where....but he obviously could use your help finding a winning strategy that might get noticed.

Because as of now, he's the Sammy Hagar of GOP politics...

Everyone knows he's there, everyone knows he's spouting his mouth off, but he's not getting enough people to care enough to get him out of Chickenfoot.

Ron Paul is in the Chickenfoot of the GOP

Don't be in Chickenfoot.

That's all you've got left in you?

:gulp:

That's the most retarded thing I've read in months.

:gulp:

And I've read most of Nick's responses in this thread.

[Dr. Love]

Caption this pic....

"These Negroes are so friendly and a true credit to their race!"

Tell us how you really feel...

:gulp:

And people call ELVIS the racist.

[Dr. Love]

There is no such thing as FREE HEALTHCARE. :thumb:

It's free if the government gives it to you, Brian.

GOD IT'S LIKE YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HOW THE ECONOMY WORKS!!!

[Nickdfresh]

Tell us how you really feel...

:gulp:

And people call ELVIS the racist.


Irony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony) (from the Ancient Greek εἰρωνεία eirōneía, meaning dissimulation or feigned ignorance)[1] is a rhetorical device, literary technique, or situation in which there is a sharp incongruity or discordance that goes beyond the simple and evident intention of words or actions. There is presently no accepted method for textually indicating irony, though an irony (punctuation) mark has been proposed.

Ironic statements (verbal irony) are statements that imply a meaning in opposition to their literal meaning.

My, someone had piss in their Cornflakes™ this morning...

[Nickdfresh]

There is no such thing as FREE HEALTHCARE. :thumb:

You mean like your VA insurance?

[Dr. Love]

My, someone had piss in their Cornflakes™ this morning...


Stupidity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupidity) is a quality or state of being stupid, or an act or idea that exhibits properties of being stupid. The root word stupid, which can serve as an adjective or noun, comes from the Latin verb stupere, for being numb or astonished, and is related to stupor: in Roman culture, "the stupidus of the mimes" was a sort of "professional buffoon - the 'fall-man', the eternal he-who-gets-kicked."

Don't worry, you still have a lock on Roth Army's Bitterest Old Man™

:gulp:

Though Lounge is really trying to give you a run for your money.

[jhale667]

more proof that Ron Paul is racist (for jhale):

http://i.imgur.com/uNFoR.jpg


Yeah, you win - the staged photo op convinces me! :lmao:

[Dr. Love]

Yeah, you win - the staged photo op convinces me! :lmao:

Yeah. He staged a photo op that long ago just in case.

Surely you aren't that dense.

[jhale667]

Surely you aren't that dense.

Said the guy whose head the joke just sailed over...:lmao: relax.

[Dr. Love]

Said the guy whose head the joke just sailed over...:lmao: relax.

Sorry. I couldn't tell. Help me out in the future - I can only tell its a joke if its actually funny. ;)

[ELVIS]

These girls are shills for the failing status-quo, Doc...


:elvis:

[Nitro Express]

Excuse me, but didn't RP say at one of the GOP Debates when asked, that if a guy came into an ER with life-threatening illness, but NO insurance he should be turned away?

:gulp:

Don't lecture me on RP's moral high ground.

I believe FREE HEALTHCARE is a moral obligation due every citizen of this country.

How about free gasoline too.

[jhale667]

Sorry. I couldn't tell. Help me out in the future - I can only tell its a joke if its actually funny. ;)


C'mon, dude. Who's playing dense now? I bet if you look hard enough you could find a 50-yr old pic or two of Jesse Helms or Strom Thrumond with black people (in the room). It proves nothing.

[Dr. Love]

Hahaha! Good one jhale!

[kwame k]

It's quite evident you were not babbling about the amendment process when you were discussing a "living, breathing document" but one of interpretation and activist judges.

Oh Forrest! Your lack of comprehension is only overshadowed by your complete and utter lack of intelligence:lmao:

I'd point out exactly what the Supreme Court does but I don't think I could dummy it down to Forrest Speak so, I'll stick with what I was actually talking about.

So amending the Constitution doesn't make it a living breathing document? I know it's hard for you to use abstract thought or critical thinking when 99.9999999% of all your posts are in Idiot Speak [to be referred to herein as Forrest Speak] , monosyllabic retorts. I completely understand your inability to expand or even comment on higher concepts because you've been trained in, "Fire bad, hurt Forrest", thought. Having your opinions spoon fed to you in 30 second sound bytes from Rush and BecKKK has affected your debate skills. You only see in black and white....the world is in Technicolor, when you're forced to actually think for yourself your Neanderthal genes take over and you make completely false statements based on prejudices and propaganda.

It's OK Forrest, every village needs it's idiot;)


That's what the vast majority of people of your ilk (and no doubt was your intent)mean when they refer to the Constitution in that way since Constitutional amendments, the only legal way to change the Constitution, are very few and so far in between. suggest you read up on what Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia says about the Constitution being a "living, breathing document." Google it and/or read THIS BOOK. (http://www.amazon.com/Not-Living-Breathing-Document-Constitution/dp/1461113571)

I suggest reading the Federalist Papers as to the intent of our Founding Fathers but it has big words so;)

Educated, critical thinking people......yep, that's my ilk.

Reactionary sheep who buy into the, "us against them", "you're either with us or against us", people that have ruined this country, that's your ilk.

Let's look at where the famous, "living, breathing document", philosophy comes from, shall we.......I would play name that quote but that would presuppose you had at least a ninth grade education so......


I entirely concur in the propriety of resorting to the sense in which the Constitution was accepted and ratified by the nation. In that sense alone it is the legitimate Constitution. And if that is not the guide in expounding it, there may be no security for a consistent and stable, more than for a faithful exercise of its powers. If the meaning of the text be sought in the changeable meaning of the words composing it, it is evident that the shape and attributes of the Government must partake of the changes to which the words and phrases of all living languages are constantly subject. What a metamorphosis would be produced in the code of law if all its ancient phraseology were to be taken in its modern sense. James Madison, he's one of those commie libs that actually was a Founding Father!


"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors." Thomas Jefferson, another commie lib!




I suggested to FORD long ago after the 2000 election when he was whining about the Electoral College process that he write his Congressman and ask him to get the ball rolling on sponsoring legislation to change the Constitution with an amendment calling for an end to the EC process and go strictly by a popular vote.

Have a good day, Shortbus!

So what you're saying is that the Constitution should live and breathe, be changeable to reflect the times and be a document that faces the current issues, not some relic document that never changes.

As usual you're confused about what Amendments are and the function of the Supreme Court in interpreting the laws.....I'd explain that to you but I think I've overloaded you with enough for today!

In summation, it was the intent of the Founding Fathers to make allowances for the evolution of the Constitution, to change as society changes, to function as our compass when issues that effect the American people arise that could not be foreseen by the Founders........or in Forrest Speak, "your a idiot" :lmao:

[Nitro Express]

Presidential candidates are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are really going to get.

[kwame k]

For the record, I voted for Ron Paul in Virginia's Presidential Primary this past Tuesday. :killer:

You didn't vote like you order fast food did you, Forrest?


http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/150337/barbrady-cant-read

[ELVIS]

kickme k is more worried about how clever his posts sound to himself rather than any actual debate...

[kwame k]

Yeah, 'cause using reason, quotes and facts are so satirical aren't they, E!

Give it a try some time;)

[ELVIS]

See what I mean ??

[kwame k]

....and what I mean;)



Oh Forrest! Your lack of comprehension is only overshadowed by your complete and utter lack of intelligence:lmao:

I'd point out exactly what the Supreme Court does but I don't think I could dummy it down to Forrest Speak so, I'll stick with what I was actually talking about.

So amending the Constitution doesn't make it a living breathing document? I know it's hard for you to use abstract thought or critical thinking when 99.9999999% of all your posts are in Idiot Speak [to be referred to herein as Forrest Speak] , monosyllabic retorts. I completely understand your inability to expand or even comment on higher concepts because you've been trained in, "Fire bad, hurt Forrest", thought. Having your opinions spoon fed to you in 30 second sound bytes from Rush and BecKKK has affected your debate skills. You only see in black and white....the world is in Technicolor, when you're forced to actually think for yourself your Neanderthal genes take over and you make completely false statements based on prejudices and propaganda.

It's OK Forrest, every village needs it's idiot;)



I suggest reading the Federalist Papers as to the intent of our Founding Fathers but it has big words so;)

Educated, critical thinking people......yep, that's my ilk.

Reactionary sheep who buy into the, "us against them", "you're either with us or against us", people that have ruined this country, that's your ilk.

Let's look at where the famous, "living, breathing document", philosophy comes from, shall we.......I would play name that quote but that would presuppose you had at least a ninth grade education so......

James Madison, he's one of those commie libs that actually was a Founding Father!

Thomas Jefferson, another commie lib!





So what you're saying is that the Constitution should live and breathe, be changeable to reflect the times and be a document that faces the current issues, not some relic document that never changes.

As usual you're confused about what Amendments are and the function of the Supreme Court in interpreting the laws.....I'd explain that to you but I think I've overloaded you with enough for today!

In summation, it was the intent of the Founding Fathers to make allowances for the evolution of the Constitution, to change as society changes, to function as our compass when issues that effect the American people arise that could not be foreseen by the Founders........or in Forrest Speak, "your a idiot" :lmao:

[LoungeMachine]

It's free if the government gives it to you, Brian.

GOD IT'S LIKE YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HOW THE ECONOMY WORKS!!!


So there's no FREE military? We each pay a bill to our employer each month?

No free Fire Dept?

Funny how we will SOCIALIZE and spread the risk and pool money if our THINGS are on FIRE...just not our bodies.

:gulp:

Ron Paul drop out yet?

[ELVIS]

Why should he ??

[LoungeMachine]

See what I mean ??

Hardly ever.......

:gulp:

[ELVIS]

That's your fault...

[Nickdfresh]

Don't worry, you still have a lock on Roth Army's Bitterest Old Man™

:gulp:

Though Lounge is really trying to give you a run for your money.

Fuck Lounge! I'm going to have a crazy girlfriend hit him on the knee so I can win!

http://www.fanpix.net/picture-gallery/tonya-harding-picture-13409959.htm

[jhale667]

That's your fault...

Yeah, it's his fault you ramble incoherently... :hee:

[ELVIS]

http://a3.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/109/Purple/7b/87/a9/mzl.zlblqgpx.320x480-75.jpg


:elvis:

[LoungeMachine]

Clever.....

:gulp:

I can see now why RP is doing so well with supporters such as yourself.

[Dr. Love]

So there's no FREE military? We each pay a bill to our employer each month?

No free Fire Dept?

Funny how we will SOCIALIZE and spread the risk and pool money if our THINGS are on FIRE...just not our bodies.

:gulp:

Ron Paul drop out yet?

Lounge you so silly. There's no federal fire department. And the military is mandated by the constitution.

But if you feel so strongly about a federal fire dept, write your congressman and ask for an amendment.

[ELVIS]

Lounge you so silly.

No he's not silly, he's fucking stupid...

He doesn't see the difference between a local police force and the military...

That's fucking stupid...

Stop being so fucking diplomatic, Doc...


:rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

If you don't think there's federal dollars going to police and fire, you're the silly one....

Show me where in The Constitution it says we should have military bases spread all over the world...

And I' have no problem The States administering social healthcare.

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

No he's not silly, he's fucking stupid...

He doesn't see the difference between a local police force and the military...

That's fucking stupid...

Stop being so fucking diplomatic, Doc...


:rolleyes:

I'm not stupid, ELBOW

I have a different perspective on how our tax dollars and society should operate.

I don't agree with you or Doc.

:gulp:

But I'm not stupid....you just think my ideas and opinions are. There's a difference, and words should matter.

[ELVIS]

Show me where in The Constitution it says we should have military bases spread all over the world...

Nowhere... support Ron Paul...

And I' have no problem The States administering social healthcare.

Again... Ron Paul !!

:gulp:


:gulp:

[ELVIS]

I'm not stupid, ELBOW

I have a different perspective on how our tax dollars and society should operate.



Yeah, you seem to agree with the liberals who think that people can't think for themselves or take care of themselves...

[LoungeMachine]

Yeah, you seem to agree with the liberals who think that people can't think for themselves or take care of themselves...

That's not true at all...

And please link me to where "liberals" say people can't think, or take care of themselves...

:gulp:

I'd love to see it.

[LoungeMachine]

LOL...

Yes, I AGREE WITH RON PAUL ON MANY ISSUES

Never said I didn't......

:gulp:

All I ever said is he can't WIN.....and that pisses you and Doctor Stickuphisass off......

[ELVIS]

Yeah, but he can't win because of people like you...


:elvis:

[LoungeMachine]

Yeah, but he can't win because of people like you...


:elvis:


Now THAT is silly/stupid......

RP can't win because he's in a rigged game......

Blame the Bush SCOTUS and Citizens United.....

On a level playing field, he'd have a chance......but still lose because of the Military Inductrial Complex and the Big Oil Companies that rely on their protection paid for by US in the guise of "defense"

We really pay about $10 a gallon for gas, when you factor in our military dollars used to protect Big Oil....

:gulp:

[Dr. Love]

If you don't think there's federal dollars going to police and fire, you're the silly one....

Show me where in The Constitution it says we should have military bases spread all over the world...

And I' have no problem The States administering social healthcare.

:gulp:

I agree with nearly everything you said, excepting that it would be better for tax money to stay with the states instead of redistributed to the states, and if they choose to spend it on healthcare, police or fire, great. Pass laws allocating the money. Otherwise don't.

No need for federal involvement.

[Dr. Love]

No he's not silly, he's fucking stupid...

He doesn't see the difference between a local police force and the military...

That's fucking stupid...

Stop being so fucking diplomatic, Doc...


:rolleyes:

I like lounge and nick and Knuckleboner and kwame and even jhale even if I think they are wrong. :)

They throw their punches, I throw mine back.

My responses are fine.

[Dr. Love]

LOL...

Yes, I AGREE WITH RON PAUL ON MANY ISSUES

Never said I didn't......

:gulp:

All I ever said is he can't WIN.....and that pisses you and Doctor Stickuphisass off......

I don't think he can win either. But if you read the thread, I post about the message and the ideas. You post about the election results. Generally.

[ELVIS]

I like lounge and nick and Knuckleboner and kwame and even jhale even if I think they are wrong. :)

They Mythrow their punches, I throw mine back.



So do I and so do I ...

Can you just feel the love...


:biggrin:

[knuckleboner]

I like lounge and nick and Knuckleboner and kwame and even jhale even if I think they are wrong. :)

They throw their punches, I throw mine back.

My responses are fine.

the knuckleboner's wrong?!??...

in all honesty, i greatly appreciate your enthusiasm. as somebody who's worked for elected officials in the past, i can say that the biggest problem in politics isn't ron paul, or barack obama, or even sarah palin (though she's close...). it's voter apathy. i sincerely hope that your enthusiasm for the right people doesn't end if and when your particular candidate loses in any one election. outside of cain, the other candidates all came from somewhere else. state and local elections are often ignored but are great farm systems. but if only a select few care, there's no guarantee you'll get good people there. i wouldn't want anybody to spend the same time for a town council as we spend debating and researching presidential primaries. and i don't assume you'll find someone to be as individually supportive of as dr. paul. but i hope you at least spend a little time looking at the local candidates' websites.

[jhale667]

Yeah, you seem to agree with the liberals who think that people can't think for themselves or take care of themselves...

:umm: Do whut? Not to be confused with the conservatives that think women can't think for themselves...


Wow, even me? Thanks, Doc... :lmao:

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

[Nitro Express]

the knuckleboner's wrong?!??...

in all honesty, i greatly appreciate your enthusiasm. as somebody who's worked for elected officials in the past, i can say that the biggest problem in politics isn't ron paul, or barack obama, or even sarah palin (though she's close...). it's voter apathy. i sincerely hope that your enthusiasm for the right people doesn't end if and when your particular candidate loses in any one election. outside of cain, the other candidates all came from somewhere else. state and local elections are often ignored but are great farm systems. but if only a select few care, there's no guarantee you'll get good people there. i wouldn't want anybody to spend the same time for a town council as we spend debating and researching presidential primaries. and i don't assume you'll find someone to be as individually supportive of as dr. paul. but i hope you at least spend a little time looking at the local candidates' websites.

I don't think people care about local politics until they own property. Once you own a substantial amount of rental property you will damn well be researching the candidates, going to council meetings, and maybe even running for office yourself. You really see the abuses when you are running a business or own property and once that starts to hurt you in the pocket book you take notice. I have had more battles over signs than anything else.

Honestly. Politics would be better if more people owned something and had some skin in the game and assets to protect.

[Dr. Love]

:umm: Do whut? Not to be confused with the conservatives that think women can't think for themselves...


Wow, even me? Thanks, Doc... :lmao:

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

I had to think about it for a minute. ;)

[LoungeMachine]

I love this thread.....

:gulp:

VOTE RON PAUL

[Dr. Love]

haha... you guys crack me up.

except jhale.

:gulp:

I can never tell if he's joking.

[ELVIS]

He IS a joke...:biggrin:

[Seshmeister]

Now THAT is silly/stupid......

RP can't win because he's in a rigged game......

Blame the Bush SCOTUS and Citizens United.....

On a level playing field, he'd have a chance......but still lose because of the Military Inductrial Complex and the Big Oil Companies that rely on their protection paid for by US in the guise of "defense"

We really pay about $10 a gallon for gas, when you factor in our military dollars used to protect Big Oil....

:gulp:

He's far too old any way.

[LoungeMachine]

He's far too old any way.

Younger than McCain in 2008, isn't he?

Fact is, the GOP loves to trot out the Relics.....

:gulp:

If they're breathing, they're leading tends to be the motto.....

[Dr. Love]

http://i.imgur.com/HDJiq.jpg

[Dr. Love]

http://i.imgur.com/w5dWx.jpg

[LoungeMachine]

When in doubt [and out of hope].......

:gulp:

Post cartoons others drew.......

[Dr. Love]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqv31-r4244&feature=youtu.be

[Nitro Express]

Younger than McCain in 2008, isn't he?

Fact is, the GOP loves to trot out the Relics.....

:gulp:


If they're breathing, they're leading tends to be the motto.....

I went over to the Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley. The main reason was to check out the presidential 707 that was used as Air Force One. The Gipper is buried under a lot of concrete. I like to joke that Nancy wanted a lot of concrete over Ron so the Republican Party wouldn't dig him up and parade him around.

[Dr. Love]

When in doubt [and out of hope].......

:gulp:

Post cartoons others drew.......

No doubt, nor lack of hope.

Isn't yours the party of hope?

:gulp:

NDAA
PATRIOT Act extended
HR 347
Military able to assassinate American Citizens
Military able to arrest and hold Americans indefinitely without trial
Drones authorized to patrol American skies
War on Drugs extended to medical marijuana dispenseries
Defends warrantless wiretapping laws

:gulp:

How's that workin' out for you?

[LoungeMachine]

No doubt, nor lack of hope.

Isn't yours the party of hope?

:gulp:

How's that workin' out for you?



Pretty good, thanks

:gulp:

Especially when the alternatives are considered.....

See you in November, my friend........

[Dr. Love]

Pretty good, thanks

:gulp:

Especially when the alternatives are considered.....

See you in November, my friend........

Lounge, you have my sympathy.

It's surprising you didn't like Bush. He was just a lighter-toned Obama.

[LoungeMachine]

Lounge, you have my sympathy.

It's surprising you didn't like Bush. He was just a lighter-toned Obama.

And Paul is Nader without the party support.....

:gulp:

[Dr. Love]

No surprise then that Nader supports Ron Paul. :)



Ralph Nader Hearts Ron Paul, Hails Potential Left-Libertarian Alliance
Matt Welch | September 28, 2011

Michael Tracey, who wrote about restrictive teen-driving laws in the June issue of Reason, catches up with the consumer crusader for The American Conservative:

Looking ahead to the 2012 presidential race, one might assume that Nader has little to be cheerful about.

Yet he says there is one candidate who sticks out—who even gives him hope: Rep. Ron Paul of Texas. [...]

"Look at the latitude," Nader says, referring to the potential for cooperation between libertarians and the left. "Military budget, foreign wars, empire, Patriot Act, corporate welfare—for starters. When you add those all up, that's a foundational convergence. Progressives should do so good."

I thought I'd bring up the subject of Ron Paul with Nader after seeing the two jointly interviewed on Fox Business Channel in January. Nader had caught me off guard when he identified an emergent left-libertarian alliance as "today's most exciting new political dynamic." It was easy to foresee objections that the left might raise: if progressives are in favor of expanding the welfare state, how well can they really get along with folks who go around quoting the likes of Hayek and Rothbard?

"That's strategic sabotage," Nader responds, sharply. "It's an intellectual indulgence....If they're on your side, and you don't compromise your positions, what do you care who they quote? Franklin Delano Roosevelt sided with Stalin against Hitler. Not to draw that analogy, I'm just saying—why did he side with Stalin? Because Stalin went along with everything FDR wanted." [...]

"Libertarians like Ron Paul are on our side on civil liberties. They're on our side against the military-industrial complex. They're on our side against Wall Street. They're on our side for investor rights. That's a foundational convergence," he exhorts. "It's not just itty-bitty stuff." [...]

There are nascent movements underway to bring disaffected progressives into Ron Paul's fold. A new organization called Blue Republican, advertised on the Huffington Post and elsewhere, urges Democrats to pledge their support for Paul. While Nader isn't willing to endorse Paul's candidacy at this point, during our interview his praise grew increasingly effusive. "Ron Paul has always been anti-corporate, anti-Federal Reserve, anti-big banks, anti-bailouts," Nader says. "I mean, they view him in the same way they view me on a lot of these issues. Did you see the latest poll? He's like two points behind Obama."

http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/28/ralph-nader-hearts-ron-paul-ha

[Nitro Express]

I actually listened to an interview with Ron Paul and Ralph Nader. Ron Paul said he's a Libertarian but runs on the Republican ticket so he can get on all the country ballots. Ralph Nader said it's extremely expensive to run as an independent because you have to have a staff of people to go country to country and satisfy each protocol to get on the ballots. It's a real nightmare.

If anything it just shows how biased the Republican Party is and how corrupt it is. Ron Paul is pulling his own and should be equally treated with the rest of the candidates. The thing is, he's a big threat to the banking system and the war industry. The gravy train for the party.

[LoungeMachine]

No surprise then that Nader supports Ron Paul. :)



http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/28/ralph-nader-hearts-ron-paul-ha



:lmao:



This just in.....Titanic Supports the Andrea Gail!!!!!

:gulp:

omg.

[Dr. Love]

:lmao:



This just in.....Titanic Supports the Andrea Gail!!!!!

:gulp:

omg.

Lounge and Nick are the Roth Army's very own Statler and Waldorf.

http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/video/stills/muppets5-large.jpg

:gulp:

And should be taken about a seriously.

(apologies to Statler and Waldorf for the unflattering comparison)

:lmao:

[LoungeMachine]

You're right. Doc....

Ron Paul will win the GOP Nomination, and Nick and I have been wrong all along.....

Hope you and ELBOW go easy on us in August when Ron is named the GOP Nominee...

:gulp:

lol

[Dr. Love]

I know memory problems are common in your elder years but I did just say that I don't expect him to win.

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Younger than McCain in 2008, isn't he?

Fact is, the GOP loves to trot out the Relics.....

:gulp:

If they're breathing, they're leading tends to be the motto.....


Look what happened to McCain, a guy that 10 years ago seemed reasonably sound.

First he chooses Palin as a running mate which was ludicrous for a million reasons and since then post election as far as I can make out has lost the plot totally veering all over the place.

Late 70s is too old to be president. Look at Reagan's second term which a lot of people like to forget about now, his brain had melted. The job is about decision making and judgement. Anyone that has ever been shopping with someone in their 70s knows that is not a job for them.

[Nitro Express]

Look what happened to McCain, a guy that 10 years ago seemed reasonably sound.

First he chooses Palin as a running mate which was ludicrous for a million reasons and since then post election as far as I can make out has lost the plot totally veering all over the place.

Late 70s is too old to be president. Look at Reagan's second term which a lot of people like to forget about now, his brain had melted. The job is about decision making and judgement. Anyone that has ever been shopping with someone in their 70s knows that is not a job for them.

John McCain is very active in the Senate sponsoring bills that erode habeas corpus and promote a military police state and is totally on a tizzy fit right now for us to attack Iran. Most veterans I know want to avoid war at all costs. You would think a guy who was in the Hanoi Hilton would think the same. For some crazy reason John seems to love war and seems to loath basic human rights. The guy is fucked in the head and would be very dangerous in the White House.

As bad as Barrack Obama is and he's pretty fucking bad. I cringe to think of what a McCain/Palin white house would take us.

[FORD]

Look what happened to McCain, a guy that 10 years ago seemed reasonably sound.

First he chooses Palin as a running mate which was ludicrous for a million reasons and since then post election as far as I can make out has lost the plot totally veering all over the place.


Yeah, the McCain of 2000 and the McCain of 2008 seemed like two entirely different guys. Hell, even I voted for him in the 2000 primary, because I thought a McCain presidency might have been tolerable, and I KNEW a Chimpy presidency would not be.

McCain did a lot of Chimp ass kissing in the years in between, which didn't help his reputation either, but the movie "Game Change" makes it clear exactly how much Moosealini ate his campaign. If you don't have HBO, look for it online, it's not hard to find

[Nickdfresh]

Yeah, you seem to agree with the liberals who think that people can't think for themselves or take care of themselves...

Well, in your case we're right!

[Nickdfresh]

Fact is, the GOP loves to trot out the Relics.....

:gulp:
....

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/2/6/eadef7d2-d768-4096-a048-f3d535e57193.jpg

[Dr. Love]

http://i.imgur.com/JXF1d.jpg

[Dr. Love]

http://i.imgur.com/fRXZu.jpg

[Jagermeister]

Damn this thread is never ending. Even though Ron may as well be completely out of the race at this point.

[LoungeMachine]

He was never "in" any race......

:gulp:

[ELVIS]

Says who, the media ??

[Jagermeister]

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries.html?hpt=hp_t2

[kwame k]

Says who, the media ??

Says the vast majority of people who didn't vote for him.

He's toast and didn't change anything by running.......not the debate nor the GOP.

[ELVIS]

Bullshit...

[kwame k]

69 delegates to Romney's 498........

But I suspect math isn't one of your strong suits either, hick;)

[Guitar Shark]

Doc,

Since you apparently agree that RP will not win the nomination, and is only staying in the race to make a point, what are you planning to do in the general election? Assume that the choices are Obama and Romney. Will you vote for one or the other? Write-in? Just curious.

[ELVIS]

69 delegates to Romney's 498........

But I suspect math isn't one of your strong suits either, hick;)

That's not a real count, dick...

[ELVIS]

Did you know that Ron Paul sort of won the US Virgin Islands caucus last weekend? You might have missed it – that’s one vote The New York Times didn’t consider important enough to live-blog. We say “sort of won” because there’s some controversy over exactly what happened. Representative Paul got the most votes, which in many circles is considered an indication of victory. Mitt Romney got more pledged delegates, however, so his camp says he’s the true winner of the Smackdown in Paradise.

Yes, we know what you’re saying – the Virgin Islands has a caucus? What’s next, the Antarctic primary? Hold on and we’ll explain about politics in the US Insular Areas. First we’d like to focus on Paul.

According to the Virgin Islands Republican Party, Paul won a plurality of 29 percent of their non-binding presidential preference poll. Romney got 26 percent. However, a separate tally chose delegates to the GOP Convention in Tampa. After the smoke from that vote settled, Romney had four delegates, Paul had one, and one remained uncommitted.

Initial main-stream media reports – yes, there were a few – reported this as another Romney triumph. This incensed Paul campaign official blogger Jack Hunter, so he produced a video to explain to doubters how 29 is a bigger number than 26.

“The mainstream media is trying to have it both ways,” said Hunter. “Once again, when Ron Paul does win, they find all sorts of ways to ignore it.”

OK, we’ll take the point. We declare that henceforward we will no longer say that Ron Paul has to prove his staying power by winning somewhere.

However, can we also point out the fact that the Paul campaign has been trying to do to Romney what Romney did to him? In Maine and other caucus states the Paulites have been organizing to win more delegate slots than their vote would indicate they’re entitled to. Have they been successful? We won’t really know until the convention roll call.

Now, as to how the US Virgin Islands got involved in this, the answer is that it’s been involved in US presidential politics for decades, as have Guam, American Samoa, and the Northern Marianas.

These are the US Insular Areas, which are unincorporated US territories. Officially they’re overseen by the US Department of the Interior, though all are self-governing in regards to their own affairs.

Their inhabitants are US citizens, as are the inhabitants of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. (There’s one exception – residents of American Samoa are “US nationals” not US citizens.) The Democratic and Republican parties, which in essence are private clubs, have decided that these citizens should get to help pick their presidential nominees. The Virgin Islands GOP, for instance, was formed in 1948.

The Insular Islanders, however, do not enjoy all the rights of US citizens who reside in the states, points out a comprehensive General Accounting Office study of their relationship to the American Constitution. They cannot vote for president in the general election. Nor are they represented by legislators who can vote in the final approval of legislation by the full Congress.

They can make a difference in the nomination races, though. On Tuesday, Romney won nine delegates from the caucus in American Samoa. In essence, that erases his loss in the Alabama primary, where Rick Santorum won 19 delegates to Romney’s 12.


:elvis:

[LoungeMachine]

If he gets the Virgin Islands does he still qualify for the set of steak knives, too?

:gulp:

It. Doesn't. Matter, Elvis

Where was your electoral outrage during the Florida 200 theft?

Oh yeah, you told us all to stop whining and get over it.

[LoungeMachine]

That's not a real count, dick...

Why not offer up the "real" count, dick?

:gulp:

[ELVIS]

If he gets the Virgin Islands does he still qualify for the set of steak knives, too?

:gulp:

It. Doesn't. Matter, Elvis

Where was your electoral outrage during the Florida 200 theft?

Oh yeah, you told us all to stop whining and get over it.

I'm not sure I said that but if I did, I apologize...

[ELVIS]

Why not offer up the "real" count, dick?

:gulp:

There is no real delegate count yet...

[Nickdfresh]

Says who, the media ??

The media and a thing called reality.

[Dr. Love]

Doc,

Since you apparently agree that RP will not win the nomination, and is only staying in the race to make a point, what are you planning to do in the general election? Assume that the choices are Obama and Romney. Will you vote for one or the other? Write-in? Just curious.

I'm not sure honestly. I will vote. I don't see much difference between Romney and Obama (on the things I care about).

I might write in Ron Paul, but I might vote for Gary Johnson. I'm still reading about him. I support Ron Paul, but I support the ideas even more. I am researching candidates at the local and state levels as well to be sure to vote for people that are in alignment with the parts of the Libertarian philosophy I agree with. It's a lot to read. I do want to use my vote in the most impactful way, but at the same time I reject the idea that I should vote against anyone or vote for "the winner" ... I view my vote as an investment to draw attention to the ideas/causes I care about; the only way I could waste it would be not to vote at all.

[Guitar Shark]

Texas is unlikely to be a battleground state anyway. I expect it to go red like always.

[Dr. Love]

Why not offer up the "real" count, dick?

:gulp:

We won't know for sure until the caucus processes are completed. It won't be enough to get the nomination, obviously, but it might be enough to help keep anyone else from winning an outright majority of delegates.

If we do get to a brokered convention, the dynamics should be interesting. I think Gingrich and Santorum supporters could certainly come together around one or the other. I don't think the Romney people would go too far from him towards either of them, or towards Paul. Gingrich/Santorum people wouldn't go towards Paul most likely either. The Paul people certainly won't go to any of the others.

If Romney has enough to prevent Santorum/Gingrich groups from coalescing and taking the nomination, he'll still need the delegates from one of the groups to put him over the top. I'm not sure where he'll get it unless he can bleed enough off of Gingrich/Santorum, or he ties himself into a bigger knot to get Paul to endorse him. Paul usually doesn't endorse Republican nominees though, and if he did, I'd personally have to be convinced by him as to why I should vote for Romney and not go a different direction anyway.

[Dr. Love]

Texas is unlikely to be a battleground state anyway. I expect it to go red like always.

Yeah. It's just a question if we will go full-on retard and hand Santorum the win or not.

[Dr. Love]

Who knows, maybe Ron Paul will join up with Gary Johnson and run libertarian again. If he does, it won't be until he milks the republican primary process for all its worth to keep attention around his ideas (which is rapidly diminishing).

[FORD]

Texas is unlikely to be a battleground state anyway. I expect it to go red like always.

Apparently, Texas doesn't get a primary until May 29 this year, which would ordinarily mean a meaningless contest, but this year might actually decide 2nd place if not the frontrunner. Since the "confederate" states seem to be divided on which idiot "who isn't Romney" they prefer.

The secessionist wing of the Texas Repukes (and Dr. Love) might vote for Ron Paul. Except for the John Hagee type, who believe that war with Iran is MANDATORY to bring Jesus back, and they're tired of waiting for it. The "defense" industry hacks and oil thieves are the ones who might be up for grabs between the serial adulterer, the frothy mixture, and the dog abuser from Planet Kolob.

[Dr. Love]

I am glad to Ron Paul for one thing ... previous to this cycle I've always sat on the side and been snarky, not really committing to any vision because nothing appealed. After this cycle I am immensely motivated to be involved in the local and state level as well as to participate and advocate at a national level.

[bueno bob]

I'd never vote for him based on several reasons, but predominant among them I think is his view on abortion.

Crazy this thread's still alive...

[Dr. Love]

there's so many things to worry about these days over abortion... but I think his point of view is probably better for everyone. Let the states decide whether or not to allow abortion and don't let the federal government decide one way or another for everyone.

Think of it like this. Today the government says it's legal to have abortions, and every state has to accept that. I'm guessing you're in favor of that. But look at how conservative the supreme court continues to grow.

What will happen if some day another case comes up and they change their mind and say, No, abortion is illegal and shouldn't be allowed. Or if the right-wingers get their wish and put in a constitutional amendment to define life in a way that makes abortion a crime?

If you take that power away from the federal government, and leave it to the states, abortion will always exist in the US, because each state will decide for itself if it wants to allow it or not, and many of them will, and many of them won't. But there won't be any way the federal government can force everyone to do it one way or the other.

That's Ron Paul's view on how the federal government should manage (or rather, not manage) abortion.

[Nickdfresh]

there's so many things to worry about these days over abortion... but I think his point of view is probably better for everyone. Let the states decide whether or not to allow abortion and don't let the federal government decide one way or another for everyone.
....


It's a fundamental hypocrisy and internal contradiction in your messiah you choose to ignore. If Paul were actually elected, many more would follow. If I'm a bitter old man, you're a naive punk!..

[Nitro Express]

Let's say your teenage daughter gets raped and gets pregnant from it. Honestly. Do you want the government involved in what to do in that situation? I sure as hell don't. Abortion is not a cut and dry topic. There is a lot of grey in it. If society degrades to the point where having abortions is no big deal then it's a bigger issue than just the government. You can't legislate morals. That deals with personal character issues and individual choice. I think the government should just stay out of it period. If the church's want to preach about the evils of abortion and help adopt out the unwanted babies then fine but they have no right to tell someone what to do with their body. It's an individual choice issue.

Ok. Ron Paul wants to repeal Roe vs. Wade. He will have better luck auditing the fed and bringing the troops home than he will getting legal abortion appealed.

[Dr. Love]

It's a fundamental hypocrisy and internal contradiction in your messiah you choose to ignore. If Paul were actually elected, many more would follow. If I'm a bitter old man, you're a naive punk!..

Nick, I don't follow you. What's the 'fundamental hypocrisy' and 'internal contradiction' here? And what 'many more would follow'?

You haven't given me enough information to understand what you're talking about.

[Jagermeister]

Here is what I think. I think anybody is an improvement to Obama. This dick head is still convinced the road to lower gas prices is reducing dependency on oil.

[Dr. Love]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UDChEDnISOw

I think I'm starting to understand why the GOP is so concerned about election fraud!

[Nitro Express]

Nick, I don't follow you. What's the 'fundamental hypocrisy' and 'internal contradiction' here? And what 'many more would follow'?

You haven't given me enough information to understand what you're talking about.

The problem is Ron Paul isn't a Democrat. Simple as that. If a Republican did the exact same things Obama has done the Democrats would be all over him. So what I have learned is you have to waive the correct banner to be accepted more than your actions.

[Dr. Love]

Rick Santorum, Ron Paul On Track To Get Most Of Iowa's Delegates
Posted: 03/15/2012 1:30 pm Updated: 03/15/2012 1:50 pm

WASHINGTON -- Rick Santorum and Ron Paul are best positioned to win the most delegates in Iowa as the Republican primary process moves forward, making Mitt Romney the odd man out, state insiders told The Huffington Post.

Santorum and Romney finished first and second on Jan. 3, with Paul finishing about 3,000 votes behind the 29,000 votes Santorum and Romney both got.

Rep. Paul (R-Texas) is currently estimated by The Associated Press to have zero delegates in Iowa. The AP numbers give former Sen. Santorum (R-Pa.) 13 delegates and former Massachusetts Gov. Romney 12. But Iowa Republican operatives scoffed at the AP figure.

"Can I just be bold and tell you that they don't know what they're talking about," Steve Scheffler, one of the state's three Republican National Committee members, told The Huffington Post. "Our delegates are not tied to the percentages of who got what in the straw poll."

"That's just not valid information at all," he reiterated. "That's just not correct information at all."

Santorum, banking on the fact that delegates are not "bound" by rule or law in Iowa to vote for any presidential candidate at the Republican National Convention -- which is similar to other caucus states -- has predicted he'll win the "overwhelming majority" of Iowa's 28 delegates.

But as he is likely to find out in many caucus states, Santorum faces a roadblock: Paul's passionate and organized supporters, working to position themselves for spots as delegates at the national convention in Tampa, Fla., this August.

"They're going to be feisty and they're going to fight," said Craig Robinson, a former state GOP official who now writes a popular state politics blog, The Iowa Republican.

"I think that Santorum will get the delegates he should get but I think Ron Paul will get way more delegates than he should get," Robinson said, adding that he worries that Paul could potentially give Iowa a black eye by winning the most delegates.

The winner of Iowa's caucuses has already changed once, after the state Republican Party announced Santorum the winner three weeks after saying Romney had won the night of the caucuses.

"It would be terrible for Iowa if you had Romney the winner on caucus day, three weeks later Santorum, and then three months later Ron Paul," Robinson said.

But Paul's supporters are not worried about the state's reputation. They just want to snatch delegate spots, and are prepared to use all the flexibility allowed by the rules to get them.

"Ron Paul's respecting the voters of Iowa and the delegates of Iowa who represent them by campaigning for delegates. He didn't just stop at the straw poll on Jan. 3," said Drew Ivers, a member of Iowa's 17-member central committee who was a co-chair of Paul's campaign in Iowa.

Paul's supporters drew attention this past Saturday when they caused a ruckus at several county conventions in Iowa. In Polk County, which includes Des Moines, they urged the county chairman, Kevin McLaughlin, to allow them to nominate delegates to the state convention who had not been elected at the Jan. 3 caucuses.

"They gave us the impression that we owed them something," McLaughlin told HuffPost. "It was like, let's throw out the rules and do it our way. And let's throw temper tantrums if you won't."

Ivers, sensitive to that criticism, said that Paul's supports were "engaging in the normal healthy process."

"It seems to be a little bit concerning among some of the regular Republicans that we are respectful enough to ask for delegates, and because the other [campaigns] are not it makes us an exception," Ivers said.

It's not as if the Paul movement in Iowa is simply a bunch of outsiders crashing the gates of the state GOP. In fact, the state party chairman -- as of early February -- is another former co-chair of Paul's presidential campaign in Iowa, A.J. Spiker. Spiker was elected by the central committee after former chairman Matt Strawn resigned.

Spiker automatically gets one of the 28 delegate spots at the national convention. He did not return an e-mail seeking comment, but Spiker is a likely vote for Paul at the convention.

Yet the Paul line of attack in Iowa is both a frontal assault and an under-the-radar operation. Ryan Rhodes, a Tea Party activist in Iowa, said that as the delegate process goes forward to the congressional district conventions on April 21 and then the state convention on June 15 and 16, there will be an element of suspense about which delegates running for national convention spots are Paul supporters.

"You're not going to know how half these people vote until Tampa. You might have Ron Paul people in there who you won't know how they're going to vote until they get into the arena," Rhodes told HuffPost.

Ivers admitted as much.

"Because the other three [campaigns] are doing very little, there tends to be some caution about the Ron Paul people," Ivers said. "So it does tend to drive the Ron Paul supporters a little more quiet in the way they speak about the candidate. A little more cautious is a better word."

The common theme among Iowa Republicans who spoke with HuffPost is that Paul's supporters have been the only ones who are noticeably aggressive and active so far in angling for delegate spots at the two remaining conventions in the state, all with an eye toward landing as many of the 28 delegate spots for Tampa as possible.

But Santorum is very popular among a great number of Iowa's grassroots conservative base, and so he too is expected to get around half of the delegates.

"If I had to be a betting man I would say that the Santorum and Ron Paul campaigns are best positioned to get their fair share of delegates," Scheffler, the Iowa RNC member, said. "That's where I see most of the energy coming from."

That leaves Romney as potentially the odd man out, getting just a handful of delegates. Such a scenario would only be possible if Romney and Santorum were still locked in a close fight. Romney's state co-chair, Brian Kennedy, did not return phone calls.

But if the national primary does remain competitive through May or June, that will make conventions in many states into high-stakes battles for delegates to the national convention, essentially setting the stage for a floor fight in Tampa.

If that is the case, Santorum is looking to caucus states like Iowa, and other primary states like Arizona where delegate rules are very loose and open to interpretation, in order to chip away at the delegate lead that Romney has in current estimates. The AP count has Romney with 495 delegates to 252 for Santorum, 131 for former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, and 48 for Paul.

The magic number that clinches the nomination is 1,144 delegates.

The only problem for Santorum is that his attempts at prying delegates away is limited by the Paul campaign's determination to secure their own number of seats in Tampa.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/15/rick-santorum-ron-paul-iowa-delegates_n_1347743.html?ref=mostpopular

:gulp:

[Dr. Love]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RU24M72TtM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

:gulp:

[Dr. Love]

http://i.imgur.com/XRFTF.jpg

looks like Ron Paul's campaign is winding down and not getting much turnout when he speaks anymore

:gulp:

[Dr. Love]

http://i.imgur.com/Q02SN.jpg

Regardless of the vote counts, it really makes me happy to see so many people turn out to hear the ideas.

[kwame k]

The more I read about Grandpa Paul's strategy to influence the party's platform by holding his delegates hostage until he gets what he wants......the more I think it isn't, in theory, a bad idea or as naive as I had once thought.

Now it seems like there is a real possibility the GOP will have a brokered convention....Frothy and Newt both are banking on this. Coupled with the reality that no one wants Mitt.....it's going to make for an interesting convention. I still think it's a long shot but the odds are getting better every day. The GOP doesn't want a fractured convention because it makes them all look weak going into the nationals but with no candidate willing to step down it could be a reality.

Changing the course of the debate and getting his followers involved in running for office or using their delegates to ensure party influence might make a difference in the long term. The more I think about his strategy the more I think it could effect the GOP in 2014 and in 2016....long after Paul is out of the picture or is merely a figurehead by then.

Paul's having a minor influence on the debates and not as major of an impact as his supporters have wanted but he has brought a few things into the debate that wouldn't be there without him. As far as his influence goes come Nov......a coin toss at best. Any promises that Romney may make are not enforceable and he can't publicly promise any cabinet position for support because it's illegal.....so even if a backdoor deal is made.....it's only Romney's word that can keep it and that's a lot of faith to put in that scumbag.

Looking back to Pat Robertson's run in 1988....he started this religious reich madness that people like Dubya and Frothy are converts to. Ruined the GOP, IMO but he brought religion into the forefront of the GOP.

Barry Goldwater had a similar influence on the GOP in the '60's.

The big test to the Ron Paul movement is what happens to his supporters after Nov......will his supporters die off and fade away or will another person come in and take the mantle in 2014's mid-terms. That is going to be the test if Paul's ideas will last beyond his time or not. If his supporters don't mobilize and have a cohesive direction in the mid-terms the same thing will happen to Paul that happened to Perot's supporters.

I still am cynical enough to think money and fear and not ideas will run the GOP for years to come but I am man enough to admit I was wrong about Paul's strategic plan......especially with Newt and Frothy now playing the same game.

[Nickdfresh]

Nick, I don't follow you. What's the 'fundamental hypocrisy' and 'internal contradiction' here? And what 'many more would follow'?

You haven't given me enough information to understand what you're talking about.

We were talking about the abortion issue you "don't care about." I mean, really? Stop fucking playing Caveman Lawyer, already.

http://hillaryeason.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/unfrozen-caveman-lawyer.jpg

Stop beating around the bush...

[Dr. Love]

Still not following :)

Are you saying its hypocrisy that Ron Paul doesn't agree with abortion but is a libertarian? And for the many more to follow, do you mean abortions?

Perhaps if you took the time to express your ideas coherently I could follow. I'd be glad to join the conversation you're having. I just need you to pull a few sentences together that make sense. :)

[Nickdfresh]

Still not following :)

Okay.


Are you saying its hypocrisy that Ron Paul doesn't agree with abortion but is a libertarian? And for the many more to follow, do you mean abortions?

I'm saying Ron Paul can "disagree" all he wants, but after that I lost you as well...


Perhaps if you took the time to express your ideas coherently I could follow.

You mean like posting Ron Paul meme pics?


I'd be glad to join the conversation you're having. I just need you to pull a few sentences together that make sense. :)

Check your nonsensical third sentence in your post, then get back to me on making sense...

You're too much of a pussy to have any real conversation. You long ago stated that you 'don't care about abortion' in order to stifle any discussion. But the fact is that Ron Paul if a bit of a frothing and disingenuous hypocrite based on his belief that government should regulate womens' bodies. But you don't care about that, do you? You simply ignore what you find inconvenient...

[Dr. Love]

Take a few deep breaths! It's okay if someone disagrees with you on the internet. :)

Here's what you originally said (which I still don't understand):


It's a fundamental hypocrisy and internal contradiction in your messiah you choose to ignore. If Paul were actually elected, many more would follow.

Many more what would follow?

You seem to misunderstand -- Abortion isn't important to me in comparison with a lot of other issues which I think are much more pressing. Therefore, Ron Paul's stance on it doesn't really factor into my support. I'm happy to discuss it all day long, but that isn't going to make me care about it. It's not an attempt to stifle conversation, it's an explanation for why Ron Paul's stance on abortion doesn't bother me (whereas it very, very clearly bothers you).

But I'll repeat again; Ron Paul has stated that he thinks the federal government shouldn't be involved in deciding whether or not abortions should be legal; It should be up to the states and municipalities to decide for themselves. That isn't regulating women's bodies. It would actually be more consistent with his "no regulations" philosophy. He has stated he thinks abortions are wrong and should be treated as violent crimes, but that goes back to how libertarians view liberty. You are free to do whatever you want, so long as you don't harm another person. I'm certain he views abortion as harmful to a person. And beyond that, I'm sure his time as a doctor and the amount of babies he has delivered has really helped to set that perception.

Good for him. I don't have to agree with every single position someone holds to support the person. The world isn't so black and white. I would have thought you would know that.

I think you're making wild leaps of judgement based on very little data with regard to what conversations I'm willing to have, or why I think the things I do, resulting in some pretty startling (and pretty funny) logical fallacies.

You respond in anger and aggression far, far more often than you do with candor and reason. So if you think I'm too much of a pussy to have a real conversation with you, consider this: I'm not convinced it's possible to have a real conversation with you, based on the content, tone and character of the vast majority of your responses, despite my repeated attempts in this thread to understand what on earth you were saying so that I actually COULD attempt to have a conversation with you.

[Nickdfresh]

Take a few deep breaths! It's okay if someone disagrees with you on the internet. :)

Um, there's a difference to "disagreeing on the internet" and using it as a venue for being a smarmy dick....


Here's what you originally said (which I still don't understand):

You keep saying you 'didn't understand,' yet you responded articulately to exactly the issue I stated. I mean, really? I mean I thought I was speaking incomprehensible gibberish!


You seem to misunderstand -- Abortion isn't important to me in comparison with a lot of other issues which I think are much more pressing.

Well of course not, white male approaching middle age! :)


Therefore, Ron Paul's stance on it doesn't really factor into my support. I'm happy to discuss it all day long, but that isn't going to make me care about it. It's not an attempt to stifle conversation, it's an explanation for why Ron Paul's stance on abortion doesn't bother me (whereas it very, very clearly bothers you).

But it's not really Ron Paul's stance on abortion, it's more his stance on legislating morality...


But I'll repeat again; Ron Paul has stated that he thinks the federal government shouldn't be involved in deciding whether or not abortions should be legal; It should be up to the states and municipalities to decide for themselves. That isn't regulating women's bodies. It would actually be more consistent with his "no regulations" philosophy. He has stated he thinks abortions are wrong and should be treated as violent crimes, but that goes back to how libertarians view liberty. You are free to do whatever you want, so long as you don't harm another person. I'm certain he views abortion as harmful to a person. And beyond that, I'm sure his time as a doctor and the amount of babies he has delivered has really helped to set that perception.

Wow. In all my life I have never seen such a fucking cop out! :) Really, so you're essentially saying that though Ron Paul personally believes that abortion is a "violent crime," he believes that the (federal) state has no right in legislating against such violent murders, nor infringing upon the sanctity of the state governments in either sanctioning or restricting such violent crimes. So, theoretically Ron Paul believes that when he is President of a government that he both instinctively and ideologically hates (despite being well paid as a senator in it), that if a given state decides to commit violent crimes against a segment of its population, that there are "no regulations" provided against them doing so and that he would be powerless as a president to act against state or municipal level tyranny (as Ike, Kennedy, and LBJ did). No?


Good for him. I don't have to agree with every single position someone holds to support the person. The world isn't so black and white. I would have thought you would know that.

I know of no one that would disagree with this. But we're talking about more than a single position here!


I think you're making wild leaps of judgement based on very little data with regard to what conversations I'm willing to have, or why I think the things I do, resulting in some pretty startling (and pretty funny) logical fallacies.

Tell me all about "logical fallacies." You seem to be drawn to them...


You respond in anger and aggression far, far more often than you do with candor and reason.

Pot meets tea kettle...


So if you think I'm too much of a pussy to have a real conversation with you, consider this: I'm not convinced it's possible to have a real conversation with you, based on the content, tone and character of the vast majority of your responses, despite my repeated attempts in this thread to understand what on earth you were saying so that I actually COULD attempt to have a conversation with you.

Then why are you conversing with me?

[Nitro Express]

Abortion, gun control, and the death penalty are those wonderful topics that will continue to be debated and argued over after we are long gone. Also nuclear waste and improving education have been constantly addressed and argued over as long as I can remember and the situations with both have not improved over the last 40 plus years. I doubt a pro choice candidate could get the nomination in the Republican party.

[Dr. Love]

Um, there's a difference to "disagreeing on the internet" and using it as a venue for being a smarmy dick....

For such an aggressive personality you use a lot of passive language. Yes, there is a difference. I am not sure you (or I) care if there is one. Neither of us resist the urge to be dicks in our own way. Mine is more snide and yours is more personally attacking. Who gives a shit.




You keep saying you 'didn't understand,' yet you responded articulately to exactly the issue I stated. I mean, really? I mean I thought I was speaking incomprehensible gibberish!

Context... you eventually give enough of it for me to piece together your train of thought if I sift beyond the hyperbole and personal attacks enough.

You should ask yourself why it takes so many posts from you for someone else to get to the crux of your point (assuming it was, and assuming you had one).


But it's not really Ron Paul's stance on abortion, it's more his stance on legislating morality...

And what's his stance on legislating morality? The federal government shouldn't be involved.




Wow. In all my life I have never seen such a fucking cop out! :) Really, so you're essentially saying that though Ron Paul personally believes that abortion is a "violent crime," he believes that the (federal) state has no right in legislating against such violent murders, nor infringing upon the sanctity of the state governments in either sanctioning or restricting such violent crimes.

Practically all violent crime is handled at the state level.


So, theoretically Ron Paul believes that when he is President of a government that he both instinctively and ideologically hates (despite being well paid as a senator in it), that if a given state decides to commit violent crimes against a segment of its population, that there are "no regulations" provided against them doing so and that he would be powerless as a president to act against state or municipal level tyranny (as Ike, Kennedy, and LBJ did). No?


Congressman, not senator. One of the only few that returns a fair portion of his budget every year to the treasury. And I don't think you get the whole concept of liberty. Would he act as president to stop a state from violently harming its citizenry? I believe he would. It is consistent with the philosophy, which is pretty straightforward: You can do what you want so long as you don't harm someone else in doing it. When that occurs, the government steps in to protect the people.




I know of no one that would disagree with this. But we're talking about more than a single position here!

You've fixated on abortion as an area of hypocrisy (which I disagree with). The only other things we've discussed is philosophy on where federal and state boundaries lie. So I don't think we're talking about much more than a single position.


Tell me all about "logical fallacies." You seem to be drawn to them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy


In logic and rhetoric, a fallacy is usually an improper argumentation in reasoning resulting in a misconception or presumption. Literally, "an error in reasoning that renders an argument logically invalid". By accident or design, fallacies may exploit emotional triggers in the listener or participant (appeal to emotion), or take advantage of social relationships between people (e.g. argument from authority). Fallacious arguments are often structured using rhetorical patterns that obscure any logical argument.

Fallacies can be used to win arguments regardless of the merits. Among such devices, discussed in more detail below, are: "ignoring the question" to divert argument to unrelated issues using a red herring, making the argument personal (argumentum ad hominem) and discrediting the opposition's character, "begging the question" (petitio principi), the use of the non-sequitur, false cause and effect (post hoc ergo propter hoc), bandwagoning (everyone says so), the "false dilemma" or "either-or fallacy" in which the situation is oversimplified, "card-stacking" or selective use of facts, and "false analogy". Another favorite device is the "false generalization", an abstraction of the argument that shifts discussion to platitudes where the facts of the matter are lost. There are many, many more tricks to divert attention from careful exploration of a subject.

I believe several of those apply.


Pot meets tea kettle...

I think you mistake my responses. I am completely happy to speak candidly and reasonably. That is by far the exception around here. No one is interested in a real debate. My responses aren't personal attacks, they are parody of the people involved in the conversation.

:gulp:


Then why are you conversing with me?

There's the rhetorical question/red herring.

Maybe when you are finally queefed out of that vagina you live in, and stop giving handjobs for handouts while obama fucks you in your asshole, you can figure out why.

:gulp:

This over-the-top, hyperbolic, personal-attack thing is going to take some time to get just right.

[Seshmeister]

The more I read about Grandpa Paul's strategy to influence the party's platform by holding his delegates hostage until he gets what he wants......the more I think it isn't, in theory, a bad idea or as naive as I had once thought.

Now it seems like there is a real possibility the GOP will have a brokered convention....Frothy and Newt both are banking on this. Coupled with the reality that no one wants Mitt.....it's going to make for an interesting convention. I still think it's a long shot but the odds are getting better every day. The GOP doesn't want a fractured convention because it makes them all look weak going into the nationals but with no candidate willing to step down it could be a reality.

Changing the course of the debate and getting his followers involved in running for office or using their delegates to ensure party influence might make a difference in the long term. The more I think about his strategy the more I think it could effect the GOP in 2014 and in 2016....long after Paul is out of the picture or is merely a figurehead by then.

Paul's having a minor influence on the debates and not as major of an impact as his supporters have wanted but he has brought a few things into the debate that wouldn't be there without him. As far as his influence goes come Nov......a coin toss at best. Any promises that Romney may make are not enforceable and he can't publicly promise any cabinet position for support because it's illegal.....so even if a backdoor deal is made.....it's only Romney's word that can keep it and that's a lot of faith to put in that scumbag.

Looking back to Pat Robertson's run in 1988....he started this religious reich madness that people like Dubya and Frothy are converts to. Ruined the GOP, IMO but he brought religion into the forefront of the GOP.

Barry Goldwater had a similar influence on the GOP in the '60's.

The big test to the Ron Paul movement is what happens to his supporters after Nov......will his supporters die off and fade away or will another person come in and take the mantle in 2014's mid-terms. That is going to be the test if Paul's ideas will last beyond his time or not. If his supporters don't mobilize and have a cohesive direction in the mid-terms the same thing will happen to Paul that happened to Perot's supporters.

I still am cynical enough to think money and fear and not ideas will run the GOP for years to come but I am man enough to admit I was wrong about Paul's strategic plan......especially with Newt and Frothy now playing the same game.

If all that is true would that not also mean that Santorum, with lots more delegates is going to wield a lot of power too? Scary...

[knuckleboner]

I am glad to Ron Paul for one thing ... previous to this cycle I've always sat on the side and been snarky, not really committing to any vision because nothing appealed. After this cycle I am immensely motivated to be involved in the local and state level as well as to participate and advocate at a national level.

outstanding, doc. improvements will not happen over night. but if more people had your attitude, it WILL happen.

[knuckleboner]

Here is what I think. I think anybody is an improvement to Obama. This dick head is still convinced the road to lower gas prices is reducing dependency on oil.

of course, he's producing more U.S. oil than bush ever did. but i guess the republican talking point still holds...

[Dr. Love]

Great news on the delegate front!

Ron Paul is sweeping various counties/districts as his supporters get ready for the state conventions.

Here's a recount of the county caucus in King County (seattle, I believe), WA:


Right off the bat it was evident that Paul supporters were the majority, around 120 of the 222 delegates. So when it came time to replace the temporary chairman with a permanent one, the Paul voters won and put in their candidate who in turn was able to reappoint the rest of the administrative positions (teller, secretary, sergeant at arms, etc.). This pissed off the Romney people immensely, and a woman at their table got up and ran out with two boxes (which we later learned had our bubble sheet ballots) she was stopped by a Paul supporter who asked what she was carrying, and she said it was 'republican property and they couldn't have it' . Everyone at the caucus was a republican…

So it comes time to vote, and the new chairman asks for the ballots and there is no response from the people who organized the caucus. Then they said that there were no ballots. Then they said that the candidate list that we were given WAS the ballot (it was just a list of all the electable delegates, ). They were doing this because they knew there were no other ballots, so we would have to resort to some sort of public vote (which is illegal by state GOP rules) this would invalidate all delegates from our District. The language of the GOP rule was that it had to be a printed ballot with all the delegates names on it, which the delegate list qualified as. So the chairman decided to declare the list a valid ballot and we would circle the candidates we were voting for. Several Romney supporters protested this saying that they had marked on the ballots, and had fears multiple ballots would be turned in. After some lengthy arguments over bylaws and robert's rules, they decided that authorized tellers, (comprised of delegates from all 4 factions) would collect the ballots and mark on our credentials stickers that we had turned in one. After the votes were tallied, all of the people in the Ron Paul slate (group promoted by the party to fill the exact number of spots, so as not to split their vote) had 110+ votes, while the Romney slate were all around 70-85. A motion was brought to, in the name of speeding things up, appoint the next 21 highest vote receivers as the alternates. This motion failed by a majority vote. After another lengthy discussion on weather the alternate candidates would get to speak prior to voting, and a fellow paul supporter (not from the district) running to Kinkos to print alternate ballots, Ron Paul ended up with all the delegates and all of the alternates. This was all accomplished by having about 55% of the vote.

TL,DR Ron Paul won all the delegates and alternates in district 36 of King County, Washington State

Here's what the reports are for today:

WA:

36th district, King County: RP wins all 21 delegates, all alternates, supporters take over all GOP offices for that county
46th district, King Country: RP wins all 20 delegates


MN:

60th district - RP takes all delegates for the congressional and state conventions


MO:

Taney County - RP takes all 22 delegates
Greene County - Paul 65 Romney 40 Santorum 6
Jasper County - Santorum 24, Paul 11, Romney 7, Newt 3
Franklin County - RP gets 24/40 delegates (60%)
Christian County - Santorum takes all 37 delegates
Buchanan County - Santorum takes all delegate (no count given) - "The committee were all Santorum supporters and had all the delegates preselected and gave no chance for any other slates to be nominated."
St. Charles County - no delegates selected - "They tried to do that in St Charles CO but when Romney and Paul supporters were outraged the meeting was adjourned with nothing completed. I'll post details as soon as I can."
Hadley township (St. Louis) - 3 Romney 2 Santorum 2 Paul 1 Gingrich
Meramac (St. Louis) - Santorum took all delegates (no count given)
Cole County - RP 26, Romney 44
Creve Coeur (St. Louis) - Romney takes 12 all delegates


Obviously not comprehensive, but nice to see him overperforming vs the straw poll. Looking at Missouri, it looks like RP got x of the y delegates (%) of what was posted about today!

For example, here's Missouri's totals from this sample set:

Ron Paul - 150 (38%)
Mitt Romney - 113 (29%)
Rick Santorum - 116 (30%)
Newt Gingrich - 6 (<1%)

Numbers won't add up to 100% because of rounding. From what I've been reading most caucuses around all the caucus states are going either like this (with RP people controlling them) or with a lot of arguing and disregard for the rules. In most cases, the RP people represent a very large part of the caucus proceedings, if not the majority.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the numbers are after the state conventions, and if they try to subvert the process to keep RP from getting any delegates.

[Nickdfresh]

For such an aggressive personality you use a lot of passive language. Yes, there is a difference. I am not sure you (or I) care if there is one. Neither of us resist the urge to be dicks in our own way. Mine is more snide and yours is more personally attacking. Who gives a shit.


Fair enough...but you know I gotz nothing but love for you Dr. Loves...


Context... you eventually give enough of it for me to piece together your train of thought if I sift beyond the hyperbole and personal attacks enough.

You should ask yourself why it takes so many posts from you for someone else to get to the crux of your point (assuming it was, and assuming you had one).

Part of your style is in fact ignoring a point you'd rather not discuss and just dismissing away what is a major chink in Ron Paul's libertarian armor...


And what's his stance on legislating morality? The federal government shouldn't be involved.

Which means that the tyranny can just be shifted to individual state gov'ts and municipalities. Sort of like Segregation...


Practically all violent crime is handled at the state level.

You may be right, but I'd like to see the stats on that one. However, I can tell you I was just discussing a local case (see David Cain Tree Service for more info) where some psychotic asshole basically terrorized an entire town to the extent that it took a federal task force to take him down. Major violent crimes by more powerful criminal syndicates drawing on large resources are prosecuted by the feds...


Congressman, not senator. One of the only few that returns a fair portion of his budget every year to the treasury. And I don't think you get the whole concept of liberty. Would he act as president to stop a state from violently harming its citizenry? I believe he would. It is consistent with the philosophy, which is pretty straightforward: You can do what you want so long as you don't harm someone else in doing it. When that occurs, the government steps in to protect the people.

I'm pretty sure I get the concept of liberty, and it applies to women, not just males. Would Ron Paul intervene? He probably would or would be deposed via some form of impeachment. However, one must also reckon what has happened in history with those of Ron Paul's beliefs of Laize Faire. The U.S. suffered much more in the Great Depression largely because of the inaction by the Hoover Admin. And since it is St. Patrick's weekend, I'd also point out the Irish Potato Famine of 1845-52 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_%28Ireland%29) was vastly worsened by the British gov'ts notion that government has no place in relief efforts, and that was the job of charities. Tens of thousands perished or were forced to emigrate from their homes as a result.


You've fixated on abortion as an area of hypocrisy (which I disagree with). The only other things we've discussed is philosophy on where federal and state boundaries lie. So I don't think we're talking about much more than a single position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy...

I think you mistake my responses. I am completely happy to speak candidly and reasonably. That is by far the exception around here. No one is interested in a real debate. My responses aren't personal attacks, they are parody of the people involved in the conversation.

:gulp:

Your responses are in the eye of the beholder. Once one write something, he or she loses complete ownership of the syntax...


There's the rhetorical question/red herring.

Maybe when you are finally queefed out of that vagina you live in, and stop giving handjobs for handouts while obama fucks you in your asshole, you can figure out why.

:gulp:

This over-the-top, hyperbolic, personal-attack thing is going to take some time to get just right.

Oh my Dr. Love, what was ever on your mind this evening? Being in a vagina is kind of nice, I don't give handjobs for handouts, but if I did, it really wouldn't be a "handout" since I earned it! And I don't think Obama has ever tried to fuck my asshole. In fact, I support his policies of middle class tax breaks while striving for a fair tax burden...

[Kristy]

Ron Paul 2012. What an inevitable reality.

http://www.acegames.us/forum/attachments/free-mp3-ringtones/53799d1233210381t-herbert-family-guy-oldman.jpg

[Kristy]

Regardless of the vote counts, it really makes me happy to see so many people turn out to hear the ideas.


Those are not people those are a bunch of over-privileged 20-something college grads pissed off beacuse they can't find a job, or if they do find a job, feel they are entitled to a minimum of $65K/y. Wonder how many of them served as grunts in Iraq, much less ever wondered where their next meal came from. Paul is nothing more than a limp-wristed daddy figure to these miscreants. And what "ideals" does Paul have? Is he going to abolish the Fed for good? No? Maybe give reprieve on student loans for these shitheads? No? Make healthcare affordable for all? No? So where does this mindset of Paul having some sort of Utopian future for America come from? Paul is noting more than another rich, white Rethuglican pandering a non-religious angle to America's dumbed-down youth for votes. He's not going to change a single thing.

[Kristy]

Okay.



I'm saying Ron Paul can "disagree" all he wants, but after that I lost you as well...





You mean like posting Ron Paul meme pics?



Check your nonsensical third sentence in your post, then get back to me on making sense...

You're too much of a pussy to have any real conversation. You long ago stated that you 'don't care about abortion' in order to stifle any discussion. But the fact is that Ron Paul if a bit of a frothing and disingenuous hypocrite based on his belief that government should regulate womens' bodies. But you don't care about that, do you? You simply ignore what you find inconvenient...

Your quote & paste counter-arguments are really starting to get old, Nick. Please fuck off.

[Headly1984]

- Ron Paul has support of some of the troops who are sick of being part of longer rotations in a currently never ending war with expanding fields of engagement

How long was WWII ? How man yrs has Gulf I, Gulf II, Afghanistan been ? and maybe next Iran, oh yeah, Libya - maybe Syria .. Are we the UN ? what an amazing coalition we have with US - UK lol! wow 2 out of how many nations ?

- Thank Ron Paul for being a person of real opinion unlike Mitt the weather vain or McOld in the last election or Barry shallow elected for skin color by many who thought why not him, lets try something different - it was him or Gramps - what a selection last time ..

this election too - who picks these winners Mitt? Santorum? oh man - if these guys are the best lets just let the Military run the country like Egypt lol!

Ron Paul is if nothing else, injecting debate and opinion into the process again and his grass roots supporters may just keep the GOP honest for the next couple of yrs - I hope he gets to the convention and gets the VP or some concession of fiscal matters by whoever gets the nod

Why was it after the bubble crash - after TARP - which never did purchase troubled assets as a relief program, why was the FED never audited to see where it placed its bets regarding our market - when fannie mae's finances were looked at we saw that they were placing bets on home owners defaulting contrary to the mission of Fannie Mae -oops!

How do we know what our nations bank is doing if we are not allowed to audit them ?

[Dr. Love]

Oh, I love you too nick. :P

I disagree but I understand where you are coming from. I agree it's not so simple, but I still like a lot of the ideas, and I like hearing someone speak about solving problems rather than prolonging them, bring honest about how they see the world instead of using talking points, and answering questions directly instead of using sound bites.

I don't think he has all the answers and I don't think he is right on everything but I do think he is more genuine than the rest.

[Nickdfresh]

Your quote & paste counter-arguments are really starting to get old, Nick. Please fuck off.

Okay, I'll fuck off then. But only because you asked nicely...

[Dr. Love]

Those are not people those are a bunch of over-privileged 20-something college grads pissed off beacuse they can't find a job, or if they do find a job, feel they are entitled to a minimum of $65K/y. Wonder how many of them served as grunts in Iraq, much less ever wondered where their next meal came from. Paul is nothing more than a limp-wristed daddy figure to these miscreants. And what "ideals" does Paul have? Is he going to abolish the Fed for good? No? Maybe give reprieve on student loans for these shitheads? No? Make healthcare affordable for all? No? So where does this mindset of Paul having some sort of Utopian future for America come from? Paul is noting more than another rich, white Rethuglican pandering a non-religious angle to America's dumbed-down youth for votes. He's not going to change a single thing.

Those aren't people, huh. You do realize that Ron Paul's campaign receives more contributions from the military than all of the other candidates (including the President) combined, right?

RP's plan is fairly straight forward - give people the freedom to choose how to live their lives and the accountability that goes along with it. Think about what that means if you apply it to every question you asked.

Aside form that, yes, he will try to abolish the fed. His audit bill is only 4 cosponsors away from a majority in the House.

If you listen to what he says and proposes, I highly doubt it's pandering. Pandering is telling someone you're going to give them everything they want. Ron Paul's plan is a bitter pill to swallow -- basically that he's going to start taking government control of things away and return that control to the people, which is practically the opposite of saying that the government will give you everything you want.

[Nitro Express]

Ron Paul 2012. What an inevitable reality.

http://www.acegames.us/forum/attachments/free-mp3-ringtones/53799d1233210381t-herbert-family-guy-oldman.jpg
We can give Ron the same battery powered heart pump Dick Cheney has to keep him going.

[Kristy]

Those aren't people, huh. You do realize that Ron Paul's campaign receives more contributions from the military than all of the other candidates (including the President) combined, right?

RP's plan is fairly straight forward - give people the freedom to choose how to live their lives and the accountability that goes along with it. Think about what that means if you apply it to every question you asked.

Aside form that, yes, he will try to abolish the fed. His audit bill is only 4 cosponsors away from a majority in the House.

If you listen to what he says and proposes, I highly doubt it's pandering. Pandering is telling someone you're going to give them everything they want. Ron Paul's plan is a bitter pill to swallow -- basically that he's going to start taking government control of things away and return that control to the people, which is practically the opposite of saying that the government will give you everything you want.

Wasn't Obama pretty saying the same 4 years ago? Isn't that how you win the heart of a liberal - tell them what they want to hear? The definition of pandering. You say Paul takes in more contribution for the military? Are we talking the industry complex or ex disgruntled vets? Even if grandpa was elected, I doubt he would end the Fed in 4 years, give reprieve to a single student college loan or let anyone live their life to their own accountability. He's just another Rethuglican puppet.

[Dr. Love]

From active duty members of the military. And you're right, RP wouldn't give any student loan relief. He's pretty clear about that.

Obama wasn't saying he'd reduce government involvement in nearly anything that I can remember (correct me if I'm wrong).

RP is pretty much unanimously agreed upon to be genuine and would try to uphold his interpretation of the constitution. My guess is that a RP presidency would result in a lot of veto threats (and vetoes). He could work to get things done on both sides of the aisle (as he agrees with issues important to both sides). There would certainly be a risk that Congress would get a taste for overriding his vetoes.

If he connected with the voters, hopefully he'd be able to get other like-minded libertarians elected as well. But it's all a great stretch of the imagination; He likely won't get elected. Right now it's about attention and changing the party from within. Given what I read about caucses and precinct/district/county GOP meetings... it's going to be a huuuge fight.

[Nitro Express]

Politicians who have an 18% approval rating get elected 95% of the time. What this means there is no accountability. I personally feel the political process is broken as is. Once we amended the constitution to where senators were elected and not appointed by state legislatures it made the senate a lifetime job. Hell, 60% of our budget is spent inside the executive branch on agencies that have no public accountability.

We need to get rid of the party system and have a system where the candidates meet two months before the election and then we have a series of elections locally until one is finally chosen and they sign a contract that makes them agree to serve the people in specific ways and if they violate the contract they can be removed from office.

www.goooh.com

[Nitro Express]

Wasn't Obama pretty saying the same 4 years ago? Isn't that how you win the heart of a liberal - tell them what they want to hear? The definition of pandering. You say Paul takes in more contribution for the military? Are we talking the industry complex or ex disgruntled vets? Even if grandpa was elected, I doubt he would end the Fed in 4 years, give reprieve to a single student college loan or let anyone live their life to their own accountability. He's just another Rethuglican puppet.

You don't end the FED you flank it. The president by executive order can issue money out of the US Treasury Department. When you have Ben Bernanke running the presses non stop and he's only loaning to the big boys, the president can send the money to the smaller banks that serve you and I. You run that first and then you work on auditing the FED.

[Kristy]

Obama wasn't saying he'd reduce government involvement in nearly anything that I can remember (correct me if I'm wrong).

Obama was saying what was relevant in 2008: economy, Gitmo, Iraq, jobs. Obama sold the American people one of the biggest lies of all time: that government can solve problems if you throw enough money at them - the mindset of a liberal. And you're right right, Obama has chipped away more at the Constitution that makes Bush "Monkey Boy" Junior blush. Now it's the economy on the verge of collapse, Afghanistan/Iran, jobs and a lot of fresh college grads who can't find a job, or like I said, believe they are entitled to a pay that they haven't deserved while wanting their outrageous student loans defaulted on. Out of all the Rethuglicans running, Paul seems the most sane and mature and his contingent of voters are more educated and aware of what in the fuck is going on not only in this country but the world as well although I find their agenda to be quite selfish. It's sad that the Rethuglican party is running on the same outdated principles of tax breaks for the uber rich (i.e., corporations are people, too), religiosity and pseudo-patriotism. I will give credit to Paul in that he does genuinely see beyond such bullshit in which case, he's really a Libertarian in wolf's clothing. He would stand a better chance of winning if he ran as one.

[Nitro Express]

The government has just become a enforcer, a holding company, and collection agency for some corporate and banking interests. The mistake people are making is they get stuck on the social issues that divide us. What made the Tea Party fail is they got political and the Republicans lapped them up. The only kind of movement that is going to work is one that stays non-partisan and focuses on restoring basic constitutional rights. If it gets into social politics, it's ruined. We need to stop arguing about the small shit and just focus on the big simple shit together and then we can turn things around.

Personally I don't want much from the government. Just the basics. Bridges, roads, water works, sewers and those things. Much is provided by the local government. I do like the interstate system and enjoy the cheap electricity that comes from federally managed dams. Other than that I can take care of myself thank you. I won't be a big load on the system so I want to keep more of my money to spend as I please because I earned it. It's mine. We've tried the big government thing and it's been a total failure for the most part. Most these agencies do nothing for us now and they suck up 60% of our yearly budget. The Department of Energy has done nothing to change the energy situation for the better. Maybe some of the EPA and FDA stuff can be ran at the state level by a committee of state governors over seeing it. We need to spread the power out because having it all condensed into the executive branch is being abused.

Ron Paul only has so much money to spend on his campaign. He doesn't have deep pockets. He chose to run as a Republican because by doing so it can get him on all the country ballots in the country. If you run as an independent you have so spend a fortune to get on each ballot. Ralph Nader explained the process and he has to spend millions of dollars and have a big staff of people. I think Ron is trying to do two things here. Win the presidency running a grass roots internet campaign and bring attention to all the corruption in the Republican Party. We will see how his delegate strategy pays off. In some of these caucuses the delegates aren't chosen until months after the voting is done.

[ELVIS]

Obama was saying what was relevant in 2008: economy, Gitmo, Iraq, jobs. Obama sold the American people one of the biggest lies of all time: that government can solve problems if you throw enough money at them - the mindset of a liberal. And you're right right, Obama has chipped away more at the Constitution that makes Bush "Monkey Boy" Junior blush. Now it's the economy on the verge of collapse, Afghanistan/Iran, jobs and a lot of fresh college grads who can't find a job, or like I said, believe they are entitled to a pay that they haven't deserved while wanting their outrageous student loans defaulted on. Out of all the Rethuglicans running, Paul seems the most sane and mature and his contingent of voters are more educated and aware of what in the fuck is going on not only in this country but the world as well although I find their agenda to be quite selfish. It's sad that the Rethuglican party is running on the same outdated principles of tax breaks for the uber rich (i.e., corporations are people, too), religiosity and pseudo-patriotism. I will give credit to Paul in that he does genuinely see beyond such bullshit in which case, he's really a Libertarian in wolf's clothing. He would stand a better chance of winning if he ran as one.

That was beautiful...:cry:

[Nitro Express]

I'm seeing more and more Americans getting the hell out of dodge. When you see people leave the US and move to China to teach English because they fear what the government is going to do here it makes you think. Sure they are staying US citizens and they are going to vote, but they just want themselves and their money out of this country because it's in a totally lawless stage right now. A friend of mine likes to joke every time he comes back home it's worse and every time he goes back to China it's better. We really are at a crossroads here. Our countries resources are just being used by corporate interests for their own gain and they are sticking the public with the bill. The military no longer fights to defend the country. It fights to secure old men's loot. The politicians no longer serve the public, they serve the corporations and banks. They have the system so rigged that even those with low approval ratings get re-elected.

[Nickdfresh]

Wasn't Obama pretty saying the same 4 years ago?

I don't think he was promising exactly that...


Isn't that how you win the heart of a liberal - tell them what they want to hear?

I don't know. Have you tried to win any liberal hearts lately?


The definition of pandering. You say Paul takes in more contribution for the military? Are we talking the industry complex or ex disgruntled vets? Even if grandpa was elected, I doubt he would end the Fed in 4 years, give reprieve to a single student college loan or let anyone live their life to their own accountability. He's just another Rethuglican puppet.

I agree with much of your sentiment, and I in no way support Ron Paul for prez. But he can hardly be called a GOP puppet...

Now fuck off, yourself. :)

[Nickdfresh]

Obama was saying what was relevant in 2008: economy, Gitmo, Iraq, jobs.

Really? No shit! A candidate was addressing some of the bigger issues during an election year?! Well fuck me!!


Obama sold the American people one of the biggest lies of all time: that government can solve problems if you throw enough money at them - the mindset of a liberal.

This seems like a vast blanket-statement. I don't recall Obama ever selling that gov't should solve all their problems. Feel free to cite anything even close to that in one of his speeches or political musings...


And you're right right, Obama has chipped away more at the Constitution that makes Bush "Monkey Boy" Junior blush.

Um, not really. But feel free to cite examples...


Now it's the economy on the verge of collapse...

Do you ever read anything aside from the latest Kardashian update, or are you trying really hard to be stupid? How is the economy "on the verge of collapse" when unemployment is trending lower, the Dow is near 2007 levels, and the vast majority of economists are stating we're in a recovery? You can argue the strength or weakness of said recovery. But saying its on the verge of a collapse just makes you look completely dumb and uninformed in your hyperbole...


Afghanistan/Iran...

Which policies are you specifically criticizing? Obama didn't get us into either. He withdrew Americans from Iraq fulfilling a campaign promise and is attempting to remove U.S. and NATO forces from combat roles in Afghanistan by 2014 and has shown a good deal of restraint with Iran as compared to his potential adversaries' warmongering statements...


...jobs and a lot of fresh college grads who can't find a job, or like I said, believe they are entitled to a pay that they haven't deserved while wanting their outrageous student loans defaulted on. Out of all the Rethuglicans running, Paul seems the most sane and mature and his contingent of voters are more educated and aware of what in the fuck is going on not only in this country but the world as well although I find their agenda to be quite selfish. It's sad that the Rethuglican party is running on the same outdated principles of tax breaks for the uber rich (i.e., corporations are people, too), religiosity and pseudo-patriotism. I will give credit to Paul in that he does genuinely see beyond such bullshit in which case, he's really a Libertarian in wolf's clothing. He would stand a better chance of winning if he ran as one.

I don't find anything objectionable in the last para other than Paul would continue breaks for the uber rich at unprecedented levels and possibly enact insane economic polices based solely on ideology and not experience and fact...

[Dr. Love]

I think Ron Paul's tax policy (i.e. no income tax, lower corporate tax, no capital gains tax) only works if you reduce the size of government rather drastically. Which would be a huuuuuuge fight to get through. I don't think every department of the government should be cut, but there are some that I think should definitely go. I would start with the TSA.

[Dr. Love]

looks like Ron Paul is on course to win the Missouri Caucuses.


Ron Paul Is Winning ANOTHER Caucus, And The Media Isn't Telling You About It

While Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum duke it out for delegates in high-profile primaries like Illinois and Pennsylvania, Ron Paul's quiet pursuit of delegates appears to be paying off.

Early results from Missouri's caucuses this weekend show that the long-shot libertarian candidate is significantly outperforming his rivals in the race for delegates. Senior campaign advisors tell Business Insider that Paul appears to have picked up the majority of Missouri's delegates, despite having lost the state's nonbinding primary to Rick Santorum.

"We did do real well in Missouri," Benton said. "Some county conventions are still going on, but we've got good turnout. Anecdotal evidence shows we won multiple caucuses, and it looks like we're going to pick up the majority of delegates."

Although the final delegate tally won't be determined until the state party convention this spring, Paul's success in Missouri is a validation of his low-key caucus strategy. The Paul campaign has recently shifted its focus to winning unbound delegates in caucus states, where delegates are elected at state conventions rather than by the popular vote.

In Missouri, Paul's robust and aggressive organization has filled a void left by Santorum's lackluster operation. As in Iowa, Maine, and other states, Paul organizers have taken advantage of caucus chaos to stage legitimate takeovers of several county contests. In St. Charles County, outside St. Louis, the crowd was so unruly that party leaders were forced to shut down the caucus before delegates were elected, and two Paul supporters were arrested.

The Santorum campaign has offered a counter-narrative about Missouri. On a conference call with reporters today, senior campaign strategist John Yob told reporters that they anticipate Santorum will win a majority of delegates in the Show Me State.

But reports from the caucuses indicate that the Santorum campaign was completely outmaneuvered by the Paul campaign. Although the former Pennsylvania Senator has gained momentum in recent weeks, his campaign lags far behind his rivals in terms of organization.

“Rick Santorum will never be able to catch up,” Benton told BI. “He’s been scrambling to try, but he had poor organization to begin with. He does have some party insiders and establishment people who have been lending him their organizations, but he doesn’t have one.”

The Paul campaign's internal count has Santorum in third place, Benton added.

"His consultants should stop misleading him," he told Business Insider. "They are destroying his credibility."

In Greene County, for example, Santorum received just six of the delegates despite having the support of nearly half of the county's deeply conservative Republican voters. In Boone County, Paul supporters managed to shut out Santorum entirely.

Yob blamed those losses on an alliance between Paul and Romney supporters, echoing Santorum's past assertions that his two rivals are conspiring to lock him out of the race.

Benton conceded that state organizers did work with the Romney camp to push through a slate of delegate in several Missouri counties. But he said that there were other counties where Paul supporters worked with the Santorum campaign, as well as ones where Romney and Santorum worked together to shut out Paul.

"It was really on a county-by-county basis," Benton said. "In some counties, there is really a palpable desire to block Romney."

Hopefully as the caucus season proceeds in the various states we'll hear more and more stories like this!

[Hardrock69]

Ron Paul is the main guest on Jay Leno NOW.

[Hardrock69]

Never mind. It is a repeat of a show that was on about a month ago. I figured this out not by watching it, but when Jay said there is an all-star tribute to Jimi Hendrix, well, I TIVO'd that, so it is just a repeat.

Carry on....nothing to see here...

[Dr. Love]

was joe rogan on? If so, I saw it already.

[Nitro Express]

We will see how rigged this election will be. There are accounts of the Republican party just giving delegates Ron Paul got to Romney and I hear they had a squabble over it in Missouri and the cops came in. Then the company that is in charge of tallying the votes from the districts is in Switzerland so there are rumors about electronic vote flipping and all of that.

If anything Ron Paul running as a Republican Is just exposing what a corrupt den of shit the Repubican Party has degraded into being. GOP stands for Goddammed Outraging Pricks.

[DONNIEP]

I always keep out of politics here...But does anyone really believe that Obama won't be re-elected? Really?

[Nitro Express]

I always keep out of politics here...But does anyone really believe that Obama won't be re-elected? Really?

Anything can happen. Maybe a lot of people will think Obama has it made and won't bother to vote because of that confidence. Anything can happen in an election.

[Hardrock69]

I should tell myself to fucking never mind. Turns out he was on after all. I accidentally hit the fucking episode of Jay Leno I had Tivo'd a month ago.

Fortunately, I Tivo'd tonight's show, and am watching it now. He is just being Ron Paul.....the most sensible Republican candidate I have heard in my lifetime....

[Hardrock69]

I think Obama will be re-elected. Sure there are a lot of sheeple, but even the idiots can see that the Retardlicans are not interested in doing the job they were elected to do.

All they have been doing for the past 4 fucking years is trying to "stop Obama".

If Obama had a magic pill that would create 20 million jobs instantly, erase the national debt, create instant world peace, and cure cancer, while eliminating income taxes and dropping the price of oil to 25 fucking cents a gallon, but he needed congressional approval to use it, the Retardlicans would fucking be foaming at the mouth to "STOP OBAMA", and would not care that it was a pill that would solve all the world's problems. They would do their damndest to stop Obama from using it. PERIOD.

They do not give a FUCK what is best for the American people. They do not five a FUCK about doing what is best to help the global economy.

They do not give a FUCK about doing ANYTHING that will help ANYONE......all they want to do is to STOP THE FUCKING NI***R PRESIDENT from doing ANYTHING.

Buncha goddamn asshole fuck motherfuckers. :mad:

Anyone who actually cares about this country and wants something to be accomplished will at LEAST vote in the congressional races to REMOVE THE ASSHOLE MOTHERFUCKERS WHO ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOBS!

You want to help Obama get re-elected?

Simply publicize the Republicans for what they are....a bunch of lazy cocksuckers who have not accomplished a goddamn thing in 4 years!

If any normal person was hired to work at some company, and performed as badly as the current Republican congresspeople, that normal person would be kicked the fuck out the door on the first fucking day! :mad:

[DONNIEP]

I think Obama will be re-elected. Sure there are a lot of sheeple, but even the idiots can see that the Retardlicans are not interested in doing the job they were elected to do.

All they have been doing for the past 4 fucking years is trying to "stop Obama".

If Obama had a magic pill that would create 20 million jobs instantly, erase the national debt, create instant world peace, and cure cancer, while eliminating income taxes and dropping the price of oil to 25 fucking cents a gallon, but he needed congressional approval to use it, the Retardlicans would fucking be foaming at the mouth to "STOP OBAMA", and would not care that it was a pill that would solve all the world's problems. They would do their damndest to stop Obama from using it. PERIOD.

They do not give a FUCK what is best for the American people. They do not five a FUCK about doing what is best to help the global economy.

They do not give a FUCK about doing ANYTHING that will help ANYONE......all they want to do is to STOP THE FUCKING NI***R PRESIDENT from doing ANYTHING.

Buncha goddamn asshole fuck motherfuckers. :mad:

I am a white guy, full-time-single-dad...If I'm not a minority in the U.S. then I don't know what is...

[Hardrock69]

True. But then, I never mentioned anything about white-guy, full-time-single-dads. ;)

[Seshmeister]

I am a white guy, full-time-single-dad...If I'm not a minority in the U.S. then I don't know what is...

A black guy, full-time-single-dad. :)

[DONNIEP]

A black guy, full-time-single-dad. :)

Ok, you're right :)

[ELVIS]

Racist pricks...

[Kristy]

Really? No shit! A candidate was addressing some of the bigger issues during an election year?! Well fuck me!!



This seems like a vast blanket-statement. I don't recall Obama ever selling that gov't should solve all their problems. Feel free to cite anything even close to that in one of his speeches or political musings...



Um, not really. But feel free to cite examples...



Do you ever read anything aside from the latest Kardashian update, or are you trying really hard to be stupid? How is the economy "on the verge of collapse" when unemployment is trending lower, the Dow is near 2007 levels, and the vast majority of economists are stating we're in a recovery? You can argue the strength or weakness of said recovery. But saying its on the verge of a collapse just makes you look completely dumb and uninformed in your hyperbole...



Which policies are you specifically criticizing? Obama didn't get us into either. He withdrew Americans from Iraq fulfilling a campaign promise and is attempting to remove U.S. and NATO forces from combat roles in Afghanistan by 2014 and has shown a good deal of restraint with Iran as compared to his potential adversaries' warmongering statements...



I don't find anything objectionable in the last para other than Paul would continue breaks for the uber rich at unprecedented levels and possibly enact insane economic polices based solely on ideology and not experience and fact...

Nick, I warned you about this.

[Kristy]

Really? No shit! A candidate was addressing some of the bigger issues during an election year?! Well fuck me!!

Did he solve any of them, fucktard?



This seems like a vast blanket-statement. I don't recall Obama ever selling that gov't should solve all their problems. Feel free to cite anything even close to that in one of his speeches or political musings...

Oooh, a "vast" blanket statement! Seems you Asperger's no no grammatical bounds.




Um, not really. But feel free to cite examples...

Ever heard of the NDAA Bill, fuckhead?




Do you ever read anything aside from the latest Kardashian update, or are you trying really hard to be stupid? How is the economy "on the verge of collapse" when unemployment is trending lower, the Dow is near 2007 levels, and the vast majority of economists are stating we're in a recovery? You can argue the strength or weakness of said recovery. But saying its on the verge of a collapse just makes you look completely dumb and uninformed in your hyperbole...

Kardashian? Personally, I never seen the show, Nick. Must be a "vast" blanket statement on your part; food and gas prices on the rise, but foreclosures are down 33% which you are basing your freshly Googled DOW 2007 levels upon, and what "vasly" (there is that word again) ecomonist are you citing that you cannot Google in 5 minutes? If you don't think the ecomoney is still in the shitter, you really need to find yourself a job and get the fuck out of your parent's house. Quit Googling your "vast" arguments, fuckhead.



I don't find anything objectionable in the last para other than Paul would continue breaks for the uber rich at unprecedented levels and possibly enact insane economic polices based solely on ideology and not experience and fact... Good for you, Nick.

[Nitro Express]

It doesn't matter who gets elected it's the reality of the situation. If things don't get better and continue on the current path the lid blows off. What has woken everyone up on either side of the isle is the suspension of due process and an ever reaching government. It continues to get worse. We are no longer in the right vs. left paradigm here. We are in the everyone going holly shit! paradigm. Unless you are a banker or a sheltered politician on the take, your quality of life has not gotten better. We supposedly got Bin Laden but the wars don't stop. They want to keep the racket going, giving the banks more money and clamp down on the average guy more than ever.

The election process has pretty much become a joke anyways and most people know that too.

[Kristy]

I don't think he was promising exactly that.

Then what was he promising, Google Boy?




I don't know. Have you tried to win any liberal hearts lately?

Also haven't tried running for any political office, either.



I agree with much of your sentiment, and I in no way support Ron Paul for prez. But he can hardly be called a GOP puppet.

Again good for you. Might come in handy when you apply at BestBuy. And he is a puppet.


Now fuck off, yourself. :)

Only if you go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

[Nitro Express]

Kardashian? Personally, I never seen the show, Nick. Must be a "vast" blanket statement on your part; food and gas prices on the rise, but foreclosures are down 33% which you are basing your freshly Googled DOW 2007 levels upon, and what "vasly" (there is that word again) ecomonist are you citing that you cannot Google in 5 minutes? If you don't think the ecomoney is still in the shitter, you really need to find yourself a job and get the fuck out of your parent's house. Quit Googling your "vast" arguments, fuckhead.


It's all relative Kristy. If you are a Goldman Sachs executive the economy couldn't be better. If you are a small business owner needing to get a loan to cover payroll life sucks. The DOW rallies because the Federal Reserve is financing it with interest free money but it has nothing to do with the average American. There are two money systems. One for the rich and connect and one for us. That's why you can't get a loan and they can. Then they crash the prices and come in and buy everything up cheap. This is what is going on. The Republicans and Democrats all stand in confidence in their little camps with their dicks in their hands beating off to the same old tired fantasies but the world has changed and made that little game obsolete. Both parties have been bought and taken over and lead to nowhere or nothing good anymore.

[ELVIS]

One nation under socialism...

http://cbswashington.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/obama.jpg?w=300


:elvis:

[jhale667]

Oh, FFS....One ELBOW wallowing in lameness... :lmao:

[chefcraig]

One nation under socialism...
:elvis:

Ewwww...where did you find that creepy image of Barnabas Collins from Dark Shadows? :bolt:


http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh45/mennekinpis/barnabas-collins.jpg

[Dr. Love]

I hate Leno, but Ron Paul did pretty well!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ga4cu7LAMl8

[Dr. Love]

haha suck it santorum!


Santorum supporters shocked, angered at Greene County Caucus
Ron Paul walks away with 59 percent of delegates, Romney 36 percent, Santorum 5 percent

SPRINGFIELD, Mo. -- At times, the Greene County Republican Caucus on Saturday seemed to teeter on the brink of chaos.

"Madam Chairman, this is not Russia! This is America!" cried one woman into the microphone in the University Plaza Convention Center's center aisle.

From the moment the doors opened at 8 a.m., it was clear supporters of candidate Ron Paul were playing for keeps. Many wore hunter orange, with the ring leaders sporting Secret Service-style listening devices in their ears tied to two-way radios. Long time party members commented more than once that they had never seen so many young people at a Republican caucus.

Ten hours later, when the the caucus was gaveled to a close, Paul had collected 65 delegates, an overwhelming majority of Greene County's 111 delegates going to the next round of caucuses. Rick Santorum got six.

Winning Missouri's meaningless primary in February may have been the worst thing to happen to Santorum. His supporters, while enthusiastic and vocal, were outmaneuvered and out-prepared by the Paul camp, who had read the rules and played their caucus hand like an ace-high straight.

Along the way, Paul's supporters cut a deal with the Mitt Romney circle, a move that proved to be the caucus' ultimate master stroke.

Tom Fowler, the leader of the Romney supporters, spent years as Missouri's Republican Chairman. Few in the room were as familiar with both the caucus process and how to make the most of what support you have. By teaming with the Paul camp, Romney came away with 40 delegates, 36 percent of the total.

In the end, the caucus unfolded much like an eight-hour episode episode of CBS's "Survivor." With Newt Gingrich skipping Missouri (he was not on the primary ballot), Santorum was outflanked by the Romney/Paul alliance. The final vote was 407-353. The tribe had spoken.

As the writing on the wall became clear, Santorum supporters became increasingly incensed.

"You're out of order!" caucus chairwoman Danette Proctor repeated over and over as the Santorum uprising reached the center aisle microphone.

Many with Santorum stickers said their piece, then left in disgust before the final vote, the ultimate outcome already a foregone conclusion.

"We're one of the most conservative counties in the state," said one disgusted delegate who asked not to be identified. "How in the (heck) did we end up giving almost all of our delegates to the two least conservative candidates?"

That question was not limited to Greene County. In other county caucuses across the state, Paul's supporters used caucus rules and alliances to walk away with far more than establishment Republicans thought they "deserved."

"I apologized to my party, to the entire caucus," said Dallas County Republican Committee Chair Jack Dill. "We were tipped off that something like this was going to happen, and sure enough (it did)."

But rules are rules. And that's how a caucus works. It is not a primary.

"And that's wrong," said Dill. "We (the Missouri Republican Party) made a mistake not having a primary that counted. I hope that never happens again."

Missouri's Republican Party chairman released a statement on Saturday evening in the face of disagreements across the state, including a spat over a video camera at a St. Louis-area caucus that led to two arrests and the caucus shutting down before it even started.

“Reports coming in from across the state indicate that a vast majority of the Missouri caucuses were well run and well attended," said David Cole, chairman of the Missouri Republican Party. "While it is natural that supporters of different candidates will disagree, in most cases, these disagreements were handled in a civil manner."

http://www.ky3.com/news/ky3-greene-county-ready-to-caucus-20120316,0,7536733.story?hpt=po_bn6

[knuckleboner]

One nation under socialism...

http://cbswashington.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/obama.jpg?w=300


:elvis:

i'm curious. how is he socialist?

the private health insurance companies' stocks went up after the health care law passed, because the private market's getting more customers. sounds capitalistic to me.

the government provided money to the banks and has recouped that investment plus interest. sounds capitalistic to me.

the government invested in the auto industry and is actively selling off their shares to recoup. they could sell them all at once, but that would flood the market and depress the price, so they're doing it gradually to increase the chance of a profit. sounds capitalistic to me.

the government invested in AIG and almost certainly will not get all it's money back. ok, so this is socialism? a bad investment?...

[LoungeMachine]

I'd like to personally congratulate RON PAUL........

:gulp:

For making The Newt irrelevant......

[LoungeMachine]

Racist pricks...

If you say it 3 times do you get your wish?

:gulp:

[Nitro Express]

i'm curious. how is he socialist?

the private health insurance companies' stocks went up after the health care law passed, because the private market's getting more customers. sounds capitalistic to me.

the government provided money to the banks and has recouped that investment plus interest. sounds capitalistic to me.

the government invested in the auto industry and is actively selling off their shares to recoup. they could sell them all at once, but that would flood the market and depress the price, so they're doing it gradually to increase the chance of a profit. sounds capitalistic to me.

the government invested in AIG and almost certainly will not get all it's money back. ok, so this is socialism? a bad investment?...

Insurance premiums have shot up in price since the health care bill passed. Also, you have to deal with more bullshit and paperwork than ever before. The thing hasn't even kicked in full bore. It's not socialism at all. It's crony capitalism at it's worst.

[Nitro Express]

I hate Leno, but Ron Paul did pretty well!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ga4cu7LAMl8

I never watch the Tonight Show and really don't care for Leno as a host. I'm more interested in his car collection and his knowledge as far as that goes. I've met Jay and he's actually a nice guy.

[Nickdfresh]

Racist pricks...

That was pretty fucking funny Elbow, I must say... :D

[Nickdfresh]

Nick, I warned you about this.


You're making me very hot right now, mistress...

[Nickdfresh]

Then what was he promising, Google Boy?

Also haven't tried running for any political office, either.




Again good for you. Might come in handy when you apply at BestBuy. And he is a puppet.



Only if you go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

I've never fucked myself with a chainsaw, but it doesn't take much and several former coworkers almost did (by nearly cutting through their Kevlar chaps and almost severing the femoral artery)...

[Dr. Love]

the rEVOLution is on!


Ron Paul supports take over the party in Warren County Virginia

Rift opens between Ron Paul backers, other Republicans


FRONT ROYAL -- A rift has opened between Ron Paul supporters and other Republican party members after a divisive power struggle Thursday that led one committee member to publicly resign and declare himself an independent.

Tim Ratigan said he walked out of a mass meeting of the Warren County party committee in protest of what he called on his Facebook page "unethical and immoral behavior" by a group intent on claiming the chairmanship and vice chairmanship posts.

"I wouldn't call them Republicans," Ratigan said in an interview Tuesday. "I would call them libertarians attempting to take over the Republican Party of Warren County."

As a result of the meeting, Ratigan said, he has declared himself an independent, although he will continue to support conservative candidates in future races. Ratigan is running for mayor of Front Royal, an officially non-partisan position.

Rattan's version of events at the party meeting was supported by two other party leaders, neither of whom spoke for attribution. At least two other committee members resigned, Ratigan and one of the other party, leaders said.

All three said Paul supporters have launched similar efforts in other parts of the state and nation and warned committee members in neighboring counties to expect to meet strong challenges by Paul supporters in the near future.

An ABC television news blog reported that a feud between Paul supporters and Republican leaders at a major caucus in Missouri on Saturday led the organizers to shut down the event.

Paul carried Warren County in the Virginia Republican presidential primary while losing statewide to former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.

Ratigan and one of the other party leaders said around 100 people attended Thursday's meeting. The party's committee website described the purpose of the meeting as electing the top committee leadership and up to 290 delegates to the 6th Congressional District Convention scheduled for May 5 in Lexington. The convention will then elect three delegates and three alternates to the Republican National Convention in Tampa in August.

Ratigan and the two other party leaders said they and the Paul supporters share the same basic beliefs in limited government. Ratigan said his objections to the Paul supporters stem from their efforts to overturn party rules and standard operating procedures.

"Don't get me wrong," Ratigan said. "Everybody has a right to be a Republican, but there's a right way to go about achieving your goals, and there's a wrong way."

The committee is trying to organize another meeting at which another attempt will be made to elect new officers. No date has been set.

http://www.nvdaily.com/news/2012/03/gop-committee-member-quits.php

first the precincts, then the districts, now the counties... next the states!

[Dr. Love]

GOP gunna be sneaky, RP campaign predicts it will carry several state delegations


GOP Insiders Suggest Ron Paul Cannot Legally Be Part Of RNC Ballot

Rule does not mean Paul cannot be part of the convention, or win in a brokered situation

GOP insiders are beginning to float the idea that Congressman Ron Paul cannot legally be on the first ballot at the national convention in Tampa this August because he will not have enough delegates from enough states.

USA Today carries a report that suggests both Paul and Newt Gingrich will not be able to get on the first ballot because they may not have a plurality of delegates from at least five states by the time the convention comes around.

Appearing on MSNBC News, Reince Priebus, chairman of the Republican National Committee, cited Rule No. 40, Section B in the Republican National Committee rulebook, which states:

Each candidate for nomination for President of the United States and Vice President of the United States shall demonstrate the support of a plurality of the delegates from each of five (5) or more states, severally, prior to the presentation of the name of the candidate for nomination.
“So when these candidates are adding up their delegates or when people out there have a particular issue that they would like to move at the convention, they had better make sure they at least have a plurality of five states to make these things happen,” Priebus said on MSNBC’s Daily Rundown.

Of course, Ron Paul’s strategy is to win more unbound delegates, and it is still possible that he could win a plurality of delegates from five states.

Paul campaign chairman Jesse Benton has said that the campaign anticipates meeting the five-state threshold, saying in an email that “we are well positioned to carry WA, MN, AK, ND and ME among several others.”
It is also important to note that the rule does not mean that Paul’s delegates will not be able to take part in the convention.

It is still possible that even if Paul’s delegates cannot vote for their candidate on the first ballot, they could do so on subsequent ballots if the Congressman garners the support of a plurality of delegates from at least five states during the floor fight.
This was the possible situation Paul referred to on the Jay Leno show this week when he said “The second go around, they can go with their conscience… then, I believe, we’ll get a lot of the votes.”
Indeed, it is possible for Paul, Gingrich, or any other presidential candidate for that matter, to get on the ballot after the first round and still be able to win the GOP nomination.

Randy Evans, a Gingrich adviser, told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that the idea that Rule 40, Section B is “a legal prerequisite is a falsehood.”

http://www.prisonplanet.com/gop-insiders-suggest-ron-paul-cannot-legally-be-part-of-rnc-ballot.html

We'll see as the caucuses wind up how many states RP winds up carrying.

[Dr. Love]

RP polls best against Obama - again


Obama leads GOP field by small margins

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/.a/6a0133f2dd8001970b0167641ba744970b-800wi

PPP's newest national poll finds Barack Obama leading all of his potential Republican opponents, although by slightly smaller margins than he did a month ago.

In the most likely match up Obama leads Mitt Romney 48-44. In February Obama's advantage was 7 points at 49-42. The main difference is that Romney is now taking 15% of the Democratic vote, up from 10% he was getting a month ago.

When Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson is included Obama's lead expands to 7 points at 46-39, with Johnson taking 7%. 39% of Johnson voters would support Romney if Johnson wasn't in the picture, while only 18% would go for Obama. I doubt Johnson will really get anywhere close to 7% in the general, but the numbers do make it clear that Obama's base is more committed to him than Romney's is and that any half serious third party bid is more likely to hurt Romney's support.

Reversing a trend of falling favorability numbers Romney's net favorability is -25 this month at 33/58. That's actually a slight improvement from -28 a month ago at 29/57. To put those numbers into some perspective though, we were asked on Twitter this morning whether Romney or George W. Bush is more popular. The answer is Bush by a wide margin. Last month we found 45% of voters rating him favorably to 46% with a negative opinion.

The difference is mainly among Republicans. Bush is at 79/15 with them compared to 49/42 for Romney and there's a good chance once Romney locks up the nomination that the party will unify around him and he'll get closer to Bush. But Bush also does better with independents (36/50 to Romney's 29/58) and they're about equal among Democrats with Romney at 20/71 and Bush at 19/73.

Romney is actually not the most electable Republican candidate on this poll. Ron Paul and Rick Santorum both do a point better than him, trailing by 3 points at 46-43 and 48-45 respectively. As we often find to be the case Paul is the strongest candidate with independents, tying Obama with them while the rest of the GOP field trails by 6-15 points. The reason Santorum does better than Romney is a slightly more unified Republican base, getting 81% of his party vote to 78% for Romney.

The only Republican who doesn't improve on the margin of John McCain's loss in 2008 is Newt Gingrich, who trails by 8 points at 50-42. Only 28% of voters have a favorable opinion of Gingrich to 61% with a negative one.

RP ties Obama with independents... if the GOP wants to win in November, they need to stop being so batshit crazy!

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/03/obama-leads-gop-field-by-small-margins.html

[Nitro Express]

The GOP is owned by the bankers. If Ron Paul gets in he will make an executive order for the US Treasury Department to issue debt free money and accept it for payment in taxes. Then this money will go to the people instead of big foreign or Wall Street banks and once that money is out there, people will start to hire, they will start businesses, commerce will pick up. People will choose the Federal money over the Federal Reserve money because it's cheaper and it's backed by the US Government. Bye Bye Federal Reserve. Then the whole trend will snowball to other countries.

Ron Paul is fucking dangerous if you are a big banker so they will do what they have to do to keep this man out of office.

[Nickdfresh]

the rEVOLution is on!



http://www.nvdaily.com/news/2012/03/gop-committee-member-quits.php

first the precincts, then the districts, now the counties... next the states!

On what?

[Hardrock69]

You are right Nitro. The last President we had that tried that was JFK....he even went so far as to order our currency to be backed by Silver....and it got so far as dollar bills being issued by the Treasury called "Silver Certificates".

Kennedy wanted the Federal Government to control the currency...NOT the Federal Reserve Bank.

Amazing how one President could piss off everyone on Earth you do not want to piss off, ALL AT THE SAME TIME. The FBI, the CIA, The Mafia, The Federal Reserve Bank, Castro, Krushev, LBJ.....

Well, we all know what happened next. And the Silver Certificates were all recalled, and the Federal Reserve Bank got back to "business as usual".

With some of the policies Ron Paul has, I think him refusing Secret Service protection is extremely dangerous.

[Dr. Love]

On what?

On track to capture a lot of the caucus delegates. In other news, RP just took all the delegates in St. Louis, MO!

[Dr. Love]

I'm hopeful for the final totals. Every delegate Ron Paul takes beyond what the media claims he would get in a proportional allocation is a delegate he takes from someone else... moving him up in the placements. Romney and Santorum won't have as many delegates from those early states as everyone thinks.

[FORD]

Again, I seriously hope those of you who think Ron Paul might actually win via delegates taking over a brokered convention, are doing all you can to elect Liberals to congress. Because solid Liberal majorities in both houses are the only defense against a Randtard fascist nightmare, in the unlikely event that Ron Paul becomes President.

If we could actually have the Congressional election first, and this was accomplished, I'd actually consider voting for the old wacko.

[Dr. Love]

if a liberal or conservative or whatever is in line with my philosophy, I'm voting for them. As long as I feel like I can trust them.

[Nitro Express]

if a liberal or conservative or whatever is in line with my philosophy, I'm voting for them. As long as I feel like I can trust them.

Trust? Well that eliminates 99.9% of the politicians you can choose from.

[knuckleboner]

RP polls best against Obama - again



Romney is actually not the most electable Republican candidate on this poll. Ron Paul and Rick Santorum both do a point better than him, trailing by 3 points at 46-43 and 48-45 respectively. As we often find to be the case Paul is the strongest candidate with independents, tying Obama with them while the rest of the GOP field trails by 6-15 points. The reason Santorum does better than Romney is a slightly more unified Republican base, getting 81% of his party vote to 78% for Romney.


http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/03/obama-leads-gop-field-by-small-margins.html

absolutely false. there is no way in hell that ron paul could win in a general election. none. no republican's going to run ads attacking ron paul for his positions on social security and medicare. but, without question, he'd get decimated in a general election once his opponent and the independent PACs started making it clear.

mind you, i'm NOT trying to convince you not to support ron paul if he best represents your views. good.

however, this particular poll is meaningless.

[Nickdfresh]

Did he solve any of them, fucktard?

"Solve"? I think he finally withdrew the troops from Iraq for one. The Great Recession never became a depression for two...but I'm not really a fan of defending Obama on the internetz since he's disappointed me a bit too...

Fucktard? Really?


Oooh, a "vast" blanket statement! Seems you Asperger's no no grammatical bounds.

Psycho, histrionic bitch says what?


Ever heard of the NDAA Bill, fuckhead?

Yeah, it has something to do with defense, and your apparent love for the f-bomb...


Kardashian? Personally, I never seen the show, Nick. Must be a "vast" blanket statement on your part;

I'm sorry. I must have been making assumptions based on your pulling facts out of your ass. Silly me!


...food and gas prices on the rise, but foreclosures are down 33% which you are basing your freshly Googled DOW 2007 levels upon, and what "vasly" (there is that word again) ecomonist are you citing that you cannot Google in 5 minutes? If you don't think the ecomoney is still in the shitter, you really need to find yourself a job and get the fuck out of your parent's house. Quit Googling your "vast" arguments, fuckhead.

I didn't "Google" anything, you fuckity-fuck! It's called reading the paper, the occasional magazine, and articles on internet news sites...



Good for you, Nick.

Yep! Super good for me...

[Nickdfresh]

Then what was he promising, Google Boy?

Vague shit, like every politician...


Also haven't tried running for any political office, either.

Oh, you don't tell people what they want to hear?


Again good for you. Might come in handy when you apply at BestBuy. And he is a puppet.

I doubt they'd hire me. But good of you to slight the personnel of BestBuy. I know, you're too good for the scum you encounter on your trite mall wanderings...


Only if you go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

You're so kinky!
http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/2700000/Charlie-charlie-day-2714471-512-384.jpg

[Dr. Love]

absolutely false. there is no way in hell that ron paul could win in a general election. none. no republican's going to run ads attacking ron paul for his positions on social security and medicare. but, without question, he'd get decimated in a general election once his opponent and the independent PACs started making it clear.

mind you, i'm NOT trying to convince you not to support ron paul if he best represents your views. good.

however, this particular poll is meaningless.

I'm not sure his positions on SS or Medicare are a big problem? He's said many times that he's going to do everything he can to make them solvent and protected from being spent on anything else while allowing people under 25 to opt out if they wish. He ensures there is solvency there for the future by reducing overseas spending.

I don't think the poll is meaningless. It shows how people view electability.

[Dr. Love]

On track to capture a lot of the caucus delegates. In other news, RP just took all the delegates in St. Louis, MO!

here's a quote from one of the people there:


We won all 36 delegates and all 36 alternates!

I was just elected a delegate for the city of St. Louis caucus, it was winner take all and that we did. The vote went something like this: 148 votes for our slate,72 for Santorum slate, 50 or so the the Romney slate. There was not a Newt supporter to be found. We immediately took control of the caucus and it went reasonably well. The other two sides were very unorganized and our organization really shined. If any of the volunteers are reading you guys rocked! I work a lot during the week and have a hard time volunteering, but am definitely going to try from here on out. On a side note, I was surprised there were even that many Republicans in the city limits, nice to see you all!

[knuckleboner]

I'm not sure his positions on SS or Medicare are a big problem? He's said many times that he's going to do everything he can to make them solvent and protected from being spent on anything else while allowing people under 25 to opt out if they wish. He ensures there is solvency there for the future by reducing overseas spending.

I don't think the poll is meaningless. It shows how people view electability.

it doesn't matter what he says now. it mattters that the democrats will put up paul's old quotes and he'll have to either repudiate them (flip flop) or try and explain them away (typical politician.) either way, once people start putting out negatives against him, ron paul's ratings will drop. nobody's doing that in the primary. santorum and gingrich are attacking romney, and to a lesser extent obama. romney's attacking obama, and to a lesser extent santorum.

hence why i think the poll is meaningless with respect to ron paul vs. obama performance. whatever the polls are showing now will inevitably change significantly once people actually start going negative against paul. and, for better or for worse, obama's negatives already are out there.

[Dr. Love]

fair enough :)

At the same time I think if he did get the nomination and got his ideas out there and was able to talk about liberty and freedom and what he wants to do, he would appeal to a lot more people as well.

[Dr. Love]

looks like Ron Paul took Jackson County, MO today too... MO is looking to be good for RP!

[ELVIS]

Again, I seriously hope those of you who think Ron Paul might actually win via delegates taking over a brokered convention, are doing all you can to elect Liberals to congress. Because solid Liberal majorities in both houses are the only defense against a Randtard fascist nightmare

How 'bout you drop the left/right bullshit...

And there is no Rantard nightmare...

[ELVIS]

it doesn't matter what he says now. it mattters that the democrats will put up paul's old quotes and he'll have to either repudiate them (flip flop) or try and explain them away (typical politician.) either way, once people start putting out negatives against him, ron paul's ratings will drop.

Utter bullshit...

You're making it up as you go along...

[ELVIS]

I guess Sanitorum took Louisianastan...

[FORD]

How 'bout you drop the left/right bullshit...

And there is no Rantard nightmare...

No Randtard nightmare?

Then why are the teabaggers in congress trying to pass that ludicrous piece of shit Jockstrap Ryan budget again.

You know.... Jockstrap Ryan? The guy who REQUIRES his staffers to read "Atlas Shrugged".

And you want to elect a President who named his son after that treasonous serial killer worshipping lunatic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMdfptJ_XA4)??

[Nitro Express]

We are already in a fascist nightmare.

[Dr. Love]

Rand isn't named after Ayn rand.


Randal Howard Paul[6] was born on January 7, 1963, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, to Carol Wells Paul and Ron Paul. Paul's father is a physician and U.S. Representative of Texas's 14th congressional district. The middle child of five, his siblings are Ronald "Ronnie" Paul Jr., Lori Paul Pyeatt, Robert Paul and Joy Paul-LeBlanc.[7] Paul was baptized in the Episcopal Church[8] and identified as a practicing Christian as a teenager.[9] Despite his father's libertarian views and strong support for individual rights,[9][10] the novelist Ayn Rand was not the inspiration for Paul's first name; he went by "Randy" while growing up.[11] His wife shortened his name to "Rand".[9][12][13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rand_Paul

[ELVIS]

Thank you, Doc...

The liberal pieces of shit that post here think their bullshit is gospel...

[Dr. Love]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py8cXlLyX18&feature=youtu.be

Dennis Kucinich (in 2008) says he'd pick Ron Paul as his running mate ... wonder if Ron Paul would say the same?

[LoungeMachine]

How 'bout you drop the left/right bullshit...

..






The liberal pieces of shit that post here think their bullshit is gospel...



:lmao:

classic.

:gulp:

[Jesus Christ]

Thank you, Doc...

The liberal pieces of shit that post here think their bullshit is gospel...

THIS Liberal knows My Gospel is Gospel! :jesuslol:

[knuckleboner]

fair enough :)

At the same time I think if he did get the nomination and got his ideas out there and was able to talk about liberty and freedom and what he wants to do, he would appeal to a lot more people as well.

dude, i totally agree with you on that. in a general election, ron paul would do better than most people think he would. though he'd still lose by a decent amount. that's not necessarily an attack on paul as much as to say that the populace isn't ready for a libertarian president. but whereas many people think he'd be slaughtered, i think he'd clearly overperform.

and, as i said before, PLEASE don't assume my (speculative) analysis means i think you should stop your support. the knuckleboner's in this for the debate, not to influence.

[ELVIS]

Lemme ax you dis, palmboner...

How do you think Paul would fare running independent against Romney and Obama ??

How 'bout Sanitorum and Obama ??

[knuckleboner]

Utter bullshit...

You're making it up as you go along...

holy moly, it's like talking to a 4 year old. ok, i'll try this once more, cause i firmly believe you need to engage the minds of little kids.


look, if you like ron paul, that's great. i'm in no way trying to tell you not to vote for him and support him. that said, what i wrote is EXACTLY how campaigns are run. if you don't like it, that doesn't change the fact that that's the way it is.

currently, there are no negative ads against ron paul because neither obama nor the other republican candidates view him as a threat. but if he were THE republican nominee, the democrats would run them. and there's plenty of chances to show ron paul saying he thinks social security and medicare are unconstitutional. now, i don't care if he's right, or if he follows that up by saying, "but i wouldn't get rid of them." the fact is negative ads are not fair and balanced. and if you don't think that a strong negative attack against a politician who has admited he doesn't think social security and medicare should have been adopted won't push his negatives down a bit, then you have no concept of American elections.

[ELVIS]

holy moly, it's like talking to a 4 year old.

You're underestimating me...

I do have a somewhat informed view of american elections, and based on my observations the game is rigged and corrupted by big money...

But the difference between Paul and Obama or Romney or anyone else, is that Paul can answer a negative attack with clear, well thought out reasons of why he does or does not support this or that, as opposed to reading it off a teleprompter or sticking his finger in the political wind...

[knuckleboner]

You're underestimating me...

I do have a somewhat informed view of american elections, and based on my observations the game is rigged and corrupted by big money...

But the difference between Paul and Obama or Romney or anyone else, is that Paul can answer a negative attack with clear, well thought out reasons of why he does or does not support this or that, as opposed to reading it off a teleprompter or sticking his finger in the political wind...

i'm not underestimating you. i just thought that it was a little infantile to call bullshit on the fact that once negative ads go up against ron paul, his ratings will drop a bit. that's just common sense.

and i have no doubt that he'll do a good job answering. but unfortunately, even, negative ads work regardless of how well one responds. the electoral process may or may not be rigged, but the electorate is definitely not always rational. and if you put it out there that ron paul wants to kill medicare and social security, backed with a few of his statements (even taken out of context), it will harm him, regardless. all of the time he spends trying to defend is time he could've spent telling why you should elect him. and voters are notoriously selfish and irrational when it comes to social security and medicare. if obama or the PACs dump $50 million on ads in florida about ron paul's attacks on medicare and social security, it's a given that florida goes for obama. might not be fair. but fact ain't always fair.

[Dr. Love]

Ron Paul Upsets Santorum In Missouri Caucuses Buoyed By Huge Youth Turnout

Ron Paul emerged victorious in the Missouri caucus due to his unmatched grassroots organization and his ability to turn out the youth vote.

The final outcome of Missouri’s lengthy caucus process may not be known for months. Early results, however, indicate that Ron Paul may well walk away from the state with the most delegates. Yesterday, his supporters overwhelmed the largest pooled caucus – Jackson county, responsible for sending 179 delegates to the state and congressional district conventions – winning over two-thirds of the available delegate slots. Mr. Paul also swept St. Louis, winning all of the city’s 36 delegates.

Missouri’s second and third largest caucuses, which convened last Saturday, reported similar results. In Greene county (111 delegates), Paul backers won nearly 60% of the delegate slots. In St. Charles (147 delegates), they so thoroughly dominated that the county GOP chair, allegedly a Santorum supporter, adjourned the meeting and called in the police to prevent the election from taking place.

In each of these counties, Paul supporters were outnumbered by Santorum supporters by at least 4-to-1*. Against these daunting odds, the Ron Paulers emerged victorious due to their unmatched grassroots organization and their ability to turn out the youth vote. In Greene county, party insiders said they had “never seen so many young people at a Republican caucus.”

Missouri’s results – a shot in the arm for the Paul campaign – have led many observers to conclude that Mr. Paul’s caucus strategy is working better than they had anticipated. His strong performance follows several events in recent weeks that suggest that Ron Paul supporters – energized by the message of limited government and fiscal conservatism – are quickly taking over the leadership of the Republican party at the state and local levels across the country.

Earlier this month, in Las Vegas, Paul supporters were elected to two-thirds of the board positions in the Clark County Republican Party after winning more county convention delegates than any other candidate at the caucuses – including Mitt Romney. Meanwhile, in Iowa, the state co-chair of the Paul campaign was elected as the chairman of the Iowa Republican Party in February. Last week, Paul supporters swept all the delegate slots in two of Seattle’s largest legislative district conventions.

Such accomplishments belie the mainstream media’s efforts to marginalize Ron Paul’s candidacy. The Associated Press’s projections, for example, report the Texas congressman as being last in the delegate count. Election analysts, however, insist that those projections are driven by a failure to understand the rules governing delegate allocation in caucus states. Josh Putnam, election expert and professor of political science, agrees. The AP delegate count, he admits, is based on “a fantasy proportional allocation of delegates in the non-binding caucus states.”

Heading into the Missouri caucuses, the New York Times reported that Rick Santorum was "frantically wooing voters" in an attempt to secure a "second victory." Since then, the Times' caucus blog has maintained complete silence about Ron Paul's unexpectedly strong performance in the state.

With his likely victory in Missouri, Mr. Paul has shown once again that his campaign – fueled by the passion and determination of millions of grassroots supporters across the country – should not be written off too quickly. He has more than doubled his voter base since 2008, intends to compete aggressively in Texas and California, and continues to upend the establishment narrative at every turn. Regardless of who wins the Republican nomination, all available evidence suggests that the Ron Paul movement will continue to be a significant force in American politics for decades to come.

* In Missouri’s Feb. 7 primary – meaningless, since it awarded zero delegates - the ratio of Santorum votes to Paul votes was 3.8 in Jackson county, 4.3 in St. Charles county, and 4.5 in Greene county. Ron Paul won the majority of the county-level delegates in Jackson and Greene counties, and is expected to do the same in St. Charles when it holds its rescheduled caucus on April 10.

Missouri doesn't matter anyway

:gulp:

Who cares if RP winds up winning there

[Dr. Love]

dude, i totally agree with you on that. in a general election, ron paul would do better than most people think he would. though he'd still lose by a decent amount. that's not necessarily an attack on paul as much as to say that the populace isn't ready for a libertarian president. but whereas many people think he'd be slaughtered, i think he'd clearly overperform.

and, as i said before, PLEASE don't assume my (speculative) analysis means i think you should stop your support. the knuckleboner's in this for the debate, not to influence.

I'd like to think he wouldn't lose to Obama, as he can outflank him on the left and right. What makes me more happy right now is that we are taking fighting to take control of the local and state levels of the GOP. If we can change things, at these levels, eventually we can change them at the national level. Everywhere it seems like RP people are getting themselves elected to local and county GOP offices (as much as they can).

[Nitro Express]

We just have to realize we really don't have a free press anymore. It's biased one way or the other and it always supports banking industry blessed candidates. They finance both sides of the isle. We have had republican presidents and we have had democratic presidents and the result is the same. More wars, more consolidation of businesses, and more government intrusion. Obama hasn't really done anything different than what Bush/Cheney would have done. We got more corporate bailouts, we got more wars, we got more government/corporate schemes thanks to Obamacare. British Petroleum pretty much got to do whatever the hell it wanted.

It all still looks like bullets, bombs, banks, and oil to me no matter who sits in the oval office.

If you have anyone who is going to break that pattern of course they were going to be ignored and the public told they have no chance in winning. I hear this all the time. Ron Paul can't win. The question is this the actual truth or is it someone just saying that to discourage people from supporting Ron Paul? He actually seems more popular than what the press is letting on.

[Dr. Love]

Ron paul rallies are in the thousands. Santorum/Romney/Gingrich rallies are in the dozens/hundreds at the most. Problem is that there's a lot more people that make their decision based on what they see at the news than those that go to see the candidates.

[Dr. Love]

St. Charles GOP on camera talking about manipulating caucus outcomes in spite of whomever has the majority


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeMM9Tf3IA4

[Dr. Love]

Since I just know you guys are as energized by these updates as I am ... Missouri is progressing into the district conventions, and guess what -- Ron Paul just won the 5th! And guess who got absolutely zero delegates - Missouri Primary winner Rick Santorum. :biggrin:

Here's an update from the Caucus Chairman:


"Yes, We Did!!!

"Not only was I elected Caucus Chairman on the first vote but after a five and a half hour caucus with 1012 people in attendance, we won 2/3rds of the delegates for Dr. Ron Paul. The other third went to Mitt Romney.

"Bottom line was that we only had about 400 votes, not enough to fully control the delegates but by pulling in another 200 votes from the Romney people, we then had a majority to control the caucus. Even then, it was definitely a fight. And being the Chair, a fight I could not even help with.

"Our floor captains had headsets on so they could communicate on the floor of the caucus. We were so organized and well scripted it went really smooth. Of course the Santorum and Gingrich people had an organized slate as well, and put up a fight over the rules - amendment after amendment. It was clear their goal was to tire us out so our people would leave. But the longer we went, the less numbers THEY had. NEVER underestimate a Ron Paul Liberty voter in a caucus. We will stay until we are dead! I would guess that the other 3 campaigns list about 160 voters between them as the day wore on, we only lost about 12.

"There was a bit of anger from the Santorum folks that the Romney and Paul folks were making a deal to control the slate of delegates. Let them be angry - THEY also made a deal with the Gingrich folks AND they sent negotiators to me at the edge of the stage AS WE ARE VOTING ON THE FIRST SLATE, to talk the Paul camp into switching over to work with them. I told the guy that he was too late; not a chance - a deal is a deal, my integrity and ethics are on the line - where were you first thing this morning? You knew your numbers or should have known them.

"So they can scream about deal making all they want, but they were also dealing because they did not have the numbers. In politics, numbers are important on votes - make sure you are dealing with the people with ENOUGH numbers to help you, but NOT ENOUGH to over rule you. We made a very good deal for each of our campaigns and after I get the caucus certified by the state party, which should be Wednesday at the latest, I can tell you more. But I want THIS in the bag before I share any more details that might jeopardize the deal. Yes, there is more to tell. Dr. Paul is in great shape in the 5th District of Missouri."

[ELVIS]

Missouri Primary winner pRick Santorum. :biggrin:



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[Dr. Love]

My Adventure as a Ron Paul Delegate: The Media Gets It Wrong
by John Connolly

As I stated in my first post, there is a vast difference between a straw poll and a caucus. Read that post if you want to learn more how that works.

But now that I voted today [March 24] as a precinct delegate at the Jefferson County convention, I’m going to give you numbers, but also going to tell you how bad the process was and how the caucus at one point almost came to a complete halt. I will also give you my thoughts on how this is looking to play out. I will also tell you what I witnessed as to what the average Ron Paul supporter type and this will hopefully give you a better picture than the media is throwing out there.

First off, the media is reporting false information. I have not seen some of the local rags, but it is reported that the local media is taking their cue from the mainstream and getting it all wrong too.

The reality is that the State of Washington may not go to Romney. The delegates picked through the caucus process are definitely, in my experience, at the precinct and now at the county level, heavily weighting to Ron Paul – so much for the electability problem. It just looks as if the more people try to use that unsubstantiated argument, the more Ron Paul seems to do better.

OK. You want numbers to back it up. Here is the data from Jefferson County – my county.

Of the 115 precinct delegates selected only 31 chose to put their name in the hat to become County Delegates for the State Convention which happens May 30th through June 2nd. Why so few people? Because many can’t make it on those days or do not have the funds to travel. Interesting that it can come to that level of sacrifice, which I have stated is the strength of the average Ron Paul supporter. It takes time and money to be at the state caucus and even more so at the national convention in Florida in August. I’m thinking the Ron Paul supporter is going to pull the underdog with his or her own cash more than any other supporter for any other candidate.

Breaking this 31 down here is what we have.
Ron Paul – 17
Mitt Romney – 8
Rick Santorum – 4
Newt Gingrich – 2

So before we even vote on the 8 open delegate slots, we are more than 50% in the majority for Ron Paul across the precincts in our county. Incidentally from what I understand, 3 other slots were closed and automatically filled by county GOP chair and a couple other board members. Yes. Technically they are the establishment and I am not sure of their favorite candidates. Not even going to guess on that.

Now in filling the 8 slots, the voting process was a completely complicated process and unnecessarily so. The head person at one point was telling the 115 delegate voters that only the 31 state candidates could vote. They actually had to check the RULES! This is like saying that the four GOP candidates can only vote for themselves! I was baffled by the lack of organization. At one point a former Pan Am flight attendant just took control and started getting things organized. The chairman got back on track after awhile, so they ended up following the rules and selecting County Delegates legitimately.
So it took 3 ballot rounds of voting. I will probably never understand why they use the process of elimination as the method – but they did. It’s probably easier to follow if you are used to High School Basketball District Championships, but I digress.

The first round tossed out 5 candidates. We are down to 26.
The second round tossed out another handful and one of the candidates won the first of the 8 County Delegate slots. Now we are down to about 18 left.
The third round filled the other 7 positions.
The final tally for the 8 open positions,
Ron Paul – 7
Mitt Romney – 1
The other guys – 0

I am curious. If the other counties are having similar results, what do you think the State Convention is going to look like? This is only one state, but it appears from the YouTube videos and other reports out there this is happening in other states (Nevada/Colorado and more).
As for the demographic, I cannot give you hard numbers as I did not go and ask each person how old they were, but I will tell you this, this county has a LARGE senior citizen population and most of the people at the convention there today, roughly 90% were over the age of 50. So we got all this Ron Paul success from a bunch of elderly educated, likely non-pot smoking crowd? How will MSNBC or Fox spin that madness?

Lastly, I think it is going to be a bit difficult for the one Romney Delegate, to stand up with the other seven Ron Paul delegates and say Ron Paul is not electable. Just sayin’.
John Connolly is a software developer and avid sushi eater in Washington State.

more RP victories... this time in Washington.

http://consultingbyrpm.com/blog/2012/03/guest-post-my-adventure-as-a-ron-paul-delegate.html

[LoungeMachine]

So RP won?

:gulp:

Thank God that's over......

[FORD]

So Ron Paul won the Repuke delegates in Jefferson County?

This is a county with ONE incorporated city, Port Townsend. And if you have ever been to Port Townsend, you would know it is anything BUT a Republican stronghold. Very cool little town actually. So you had a "Republican caucus" where the locals chose the guy who is the least like a post 80s Repuke. A guy who they could at least agree with on two or three things.

But it's not going to matter worth a shit when they go to the state convention which will be dominated by the King County corporatist Repuke Chris Dunce/Craig McCaw/Dino Rossi establishment types, and the Kolob dog abuser is guaranteed to take the state party.

[ELVIS]

:elvis:

[knuckleboner]

Lemme ax you dis, palmboner...

How do you think Paul would fare running independent against Romney and Obama ??

How 'bout Sanitorum and Obama ??

well, the knuckleboner's speculation is that ron paul pulls more votes from otherwise republicans than otherwise democrats. many of his supporters won't vote for any of the other candidates. but at the end of the day, a ron paul independent run hurts the republicans. either way, though, he winds up like perot. pulls 20% or so of the population, but zero electoral votes.

but at the end of the day, as an independent, i think he guarantees an obama victory. which is why he won't run as an independent. he knows that he doesn't have an actual shot at winning the presidency. he's in the race for 2 reasons, 1) because he wants to get his message out, and 2) to set up rand in 2016. if romney wins, rand will carry on the paul support in 2020. if obama wins, ron will claim that republicans need to listen to something new, his message, now carried on by rand, not the same old, same old which wound up electing a democrat.

[knuckleboner]

I'd like to think he wouldn't lose to Obama, as he can outflank him on the left and right. What makes me more happy right now is that we are taking fighting to take control of the local and state levels of the GOP. If we can change things, at these levels, eventually we can change them at the national level. Everywhere it seems like RP people are getting themselves elected to local and county GOP offices (as much as they can).

nah, obama'd get him hands down. the medicare / social security stuff's enough by itself. i'm not saying it's fair, but it would doom a republican candidate against a democrat. the traditional democratic base wouldn't switch to paul because he's better on the wars. the entitlements, education spending, etc. is enough to keep them voting democrat. and the republican base won't warm to paul, either, because he's too soft for them on national security.

so the only question is, can paul pull enough independents to make up for his eroded base. doubtful.

mind you, a good part of this is because we're such a 2-party system. i think obama's done a decent job (given extraordinarily tough circumstances) but even still, i was hoping bloomberg said fuck it and went in on a 3rd party ticket. he wouldn't win. but he has the money and clout to possibly get a 3rd party into a viable position. and i definitey support that. which means, i may disagree with the policies, but good for the state/local ron paul crowd. new ideas are needed.

[Nitro Express]

The mistake Ron Paul has made is being to laise faire. Both the Republicans and Democrats have their die hard base that will vote the party line no matter what. Instead of saying he's going to get rid of the FDA and EPA just say he's going to clean them up and fix the problems. The real trick to fixing things and he's right here is to take over the money issuing role from the Federal Reserve. A good percentage of the debt we owe is to the FED. The FED has been caught breaking national and international banking laws and an audit surely would show abuses. Then have the Treasury Department issue no interest money and give it interest free to the commercial banks so they can lend it out. That solves a good share of the debt and money problem and gets the economy going. Then he can start cutting out a lot of the waste in the executive branch and start bringing the troops home. The key to the money is you can't print too much and you have to have enough to make the economy work.

What we have now is a congress issuing money in the form of debt. Debt is the money of today and all that does is saddle the tax payer with centuries of debt with more tax money being taken to pay it. It's as bad of a financial system as you can have because eventually everyone becomes a debt slave and then you are going to have a brain drain because people will just leave the country since being here no longer has any benefits. Then you are looking at a situation where the government builds a wall to keep people in. LOL! Sound familiar?

I figure if Obama or Romney get in they will have another $5 Trillion in debt ran up in the next presidential term. So much of this money we are borrowing is unaccounted for. Much has gone overseas. So really even as wasteful as a lot of these government programs are, they are nothing compared to the military spending waste and the banking bailout scams. We need to get that shit under control ASAP!

With interest free government issued money everyone in the country could be given a place to live and have their basic living expenses paid. If you want to paint paintings you can do that. If you want to watch porn all day and masturbate. Fine. You can do that too. That will keep the lazy people happy and then you have opportunities for the go getters to chase their dreams but as long as you have enough money but not too much you won't have run away bubbles like you do when central banks go crazy. They want to build the economy up so everyone buys into the bubble and then defaults and then they come in later and buy everything up cheap. Controlling that interest rate and issuing money is probably the most powerful man made thing on the planet.

[ELVIS]

“Being first to appear on the ballot in all fifty states proves that Ron Paul is the only candidate with the organizational muscle, resources, and stamina to challenge Mitt Romney.”

LAKE JACKSON, Texas -- 2012 Republican Presidential candidate Ron Paul is the first candidate among those vying for the GOP nomination to appear on the ballot in all 50 states, and the only candidate aside from moderate-establishment Mitt Romney to have any prospects for 50-state ballot access.

The 12-term Congressman from Texas filed to appear on the ballot in New Jersey on Tuesday, March 27th with double the required 1,000 signatures, which gave him the status of first candidate to have nationwide ballot access. Romney is expected to file in New Jersey in the coming days, making his 50-state ballot access likely.

Not all states require activity such as the need to file paperwork to appear on the ballot. In the case of some states, for example, the respective secretaries of state simply green-light ballot access for candidates. In the over 30 states that do require some form of filing activity, filing requirements range from formalities such as filing paperwork and paying a fee to appear on the ballot, to similar requirements plus a quota of signatures from those enrolled in the relevant political party, to stringent requirements as in the example of Virginia, which requires filing plus thousands of signatures to authenticate candidate support.

In Virginia, Paul and Romney were the only candidates that appeared on the ballot in the Commonwealth’s primary held on March 6th – Super Tuesday. Counterfeit conservative Rick Santorum failed to file at all in Virginia, and serial hypocrite Newt Gingrich filed but fell short of qualifying. Would-be candidate Rick Perry’s suit that the other candidates joined against the Commonwealth was struck down on appeal, and an injunction determining whether and when paper ballots were to be printed was lifted, making possible the Paul-Romney matchup. More recently, Santorum failed to file in the District of Columbia, which is holding its primary on Tuesday, April 3rd.

“Success in accessing ballots no matter a state’s requirements is a barometer for the strength of a campaign organization. Being first to appear on the ballot in all fifty states proves that Ron Paul is the only candidate with the organizational muscle, resources, and stamina to challenge Mitt Romney for the Republican nomination,” said Ron Paul 2012 National Campaign Manager John Tate.

“In concert with our delegate-attainment strategy, which is working well in states like Iowa, Nevada, Washington, and Missouri, we’re prepared and eager to continue on the long road to Tampa,” added Mr. Tate, referring to the Republican National Convention in to be held in Florida in September. “See you on the campaign trail.”


:elvis:

[Dr. Love]

hahaha...


GOP feud: Santorum and Paul supporters team up to scuttle Romney
Posted by Jim Brunner

Mitt Romney won the straw poll at Washington's precinct caucuses March 3, but the fight over who will claim the state's 43 delegates to the Republican national convention is ongoing.

The latest twist: Rick Santorum's campaign is teaming up with Ron Paul supporters in an effort to deny Romney delegates, apparently at the direction of Santorum himself.

The strategy has alarmed some top GOP officials who fear it will crack party unity and lead to a nasty scene at the state convention in a couple months. It has also angered some grassroots Santorum supporters.

In an email to Santorum supporters Thursday, state volunteer coordinator Graden Neal laid out the plan:

"Last night, the Washington State Rick Santorum leadership had a conference call with a special guest, the Senator himself. We were surprised and honored that Rick Santorum himself came on our call to help give us direction. And the Senator didn't mince words. In order for us to win the nomination in Tampa in August, we must deny Romney delegates to that convention. If the frontrunner, Romney receives 1,144 delegates before the national convention, it is all over for our campaign. That is the reason why the Senator himself directed us to coalition with the Ron Paul delegates to deny Romney any state delegates." [Emphasis added]
Neal confirmed the message in a phone interview, and acknowledged the effort has split Santorum's supporters here. Neal said the alliance is showing a measure of success, but acknowledged some Santorum backers are not happy with the strategy.

"We are a house divided," he said.

The showdown should be evident this weekend when nine counties -- including Snohomish and Clark counties -- hold conventions to elect delegates to the state GOP convention, where the national delegates will be picked in June.

King County Republican Party Chairman Lori Sotelo called it a "weird alliance" given the libertarian views of Paul, which are often at odds with Santorum. Indeed, there has even been speculation nationally that Paul was allying himself with Romney, given several conveniently timed barbs Paul has thrown at Santorum.

State Republican Party Chairman Kirby Wilbur said he's growing "concerned" about the scheming leading to a disruptive fight at the state convention.

And the Santorum campaign's move -- directed by the national campaign -- has turned off some local supporters who had been working on "unity slates" to fairly apportion delegates among the Santorum, Romney and Gingrich campaigns.

Garry Pagon, a long time Snohomish County Republican activist, sent a letter of resignation to the Santorum campaign Thursday.

Pagon had been the campaign's coordinator for the 1st and 2nd congressional districts, but said in the letter he could not continue in that role.

Pagon wrote that "personal animosities" have developed between some Santorum and Paul supporters, so "many of our people will not be willing to work with the Paul campaign."

"If we revoke commitments that we made," Pagon's letter added, "then we will lose most of our credibility going forward, and other campaigns will not trust any negotiations that we attempt in the future."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politicsnorthwest/2017877068_republican_delegate_feud_santo.html

[Dr. Love]

Also, Paul swept Nye County, Nevada today, taking all the delegates and alternates.

[FORD]

Kirby Wilbur is running the Washington state Repuke party now?

Well, that makes me feel better about the next election. He's a failed right wing radio host. Mush Limpdick wannabe who used to have the afternoon shift on KK-KVI radio.

I think he supported Ellen Craswell for Governor She was an old lady with a religious extremist party platform which included the death penalty for homosexuality.

[Dr. Love]

The Ronulans are among us: How Ron Paul’s delegate strategy is actually working
Published: 28 March, 2012, 17:58

On they come, marginalized by the media and ridiculed by the Republican establishment. Their votes are often rejected at precinct caucuses, their voices ignored by temporary chairmen who flaunt their own rules and pretend that they have the votes for their prearranged delegate slates.

On one occasion a crowd of onlookers shouts objections at this fraud, only to be subjected to prearranged organized arrests for “disturbing the peace.” Some participants openly weep, in shame for the obscenity of such blatant corruption. Others become angry. In Missouri, a weary delegate is seen vomiting by the side of a building, sick over what she has just experienced.

In Kentucky they show up to find that their name is on a list prohibited from participation by the County Chairman. He claims he did a drive-by the day before and they had a Libertarian sign in their yard and therefore cannot participate in a GOP caucus.

In Nevada the microphones are only allowed for favored candidates and are turned off when a young Hispanic tries to speak. There are lots of Hispanics among this crowd. Parliamentary rules are ignored. Prospective delegates are intimidated.

In Virginia, they are tricked into leaving the building, told that if there is no quorum the vote can be delayed until the rest of their people show up. But once out of the building the County Chairman, herself, locks the door so they can’t get back in.

In Alaska, election times are changed and their names are excluded from robo calls announcing those changes. Participants from all of the other campaigns are invited. Insiders are reportedly allowed to vote in caucuses by telephone conference calls, meanwhile, young people who show up are turned away in droves, saying they are too late or not registered, in spite of showing registration documents.

In Maine, a county chairman cancels the caucus, knowing that they will have a strong showing. A GOP official transfers false data and her phony numbers are caught by a local newspaper.

In an Oklahoma county convention a corrupt chairman adds new delegates who didn’t attend precinct caucuses and eliminates those who actually did. Another establishes a credentials committee which eliminates anyone under the age of thirty.

And yet, on they come, in spite of the pain, the inconvenience, the open hostility of the Party bosses. They are like a tide of the ocean. And for every precinct or county where they are violated or cheated, there is another where their sheer numbers prevail. These are the Ronulans, the Ron Paul supporters, trying to take back the Mothership from the corrupt Empire. And unseen, unheralded by the national media, they are showing signs of success.

In Seattle they overwhelm the 46th and 36th legislative district delegate elections, electing their own chairman, and winning every single one of the 21 delegates to the state convention. The rejected former GOP chairman, pouting over his loss, walks off the stage with all of the Party ballots and scanners, perhaps believing that they cannot have a meeting without the Republican Party’s technology.

They out-organized us says a Romney man. The same thing happens in the 36th District, where the Paul’s supporters vote down a Romney contrived “unity slate” that claimed to represent all of the other candidates. Weeks ago the Associated Press claimed that Romney would win 30 of the Washington State delegates to the national convention, Ron Paul, they reported would win 5. But it is turning out to be very different.

In Minnesota, where the AP projects 37 delegates for Santorum, 1 for Gingrich and 0 for Ron Paul the difference between media and reality is even more stark. In Carver County, Minnesota (suburban Minneapolis) Ron Paul supporters show up in force securing 30 out of the 52 delegate slots that will go onto the State Convention. Reports across the state are similar, especially in the suburbs. In most of them Ron Paul supporters account for at least a third of the delegates that will go to State. Theoretically, if they could unite, a Santorum-Paul deal could split the whole delegation to Tampa and deny Romney all but a few.

It is the same story in Missouri. Here too, Senator Rick Santorum won the statewide beauty contest but is seeing the delegates being swept away by the Ronulan tide. Ron Paul sweeps the St. Louis City Caucus and doubles the nearest delegate winner, Mitt Romney, in Jackson County (Kansas City.) It is a dramatic showing. In the Sixth Congressional District, Dr. Paul bags the whole lot, winning every single delegate to the State Convention.

Santorum wins Christian County but it is a bittersweet victory. The Country Chairmen himself openly declares “voter fraud.” Videos and written eye witness reports abound on what really happened.

Perhaps the most dramatic contest centers on Greene County. (Springfield, Missouri.) This is the home to the national headquarters for the Assemblies of God and the Baptist Bible Fellowship, of Jimmy Swaggart and Jerry Falwell fame, respectively. The Ronulans extend a hand of cooperation to the Santorum people but it is rejected. And who can blame them? Santorum had carried the County by 54% in the statewide, non binding, contest. The Romney people quickly step into the breach, make peace with the Ronulans. The end result is a delegation to the State Convention that is 59% Ron Paul, 36% Mitt Romney and 5% Rick Santorum.

Again in Boone County, (Columbia, Missouri,) Ron Paul organizer, Bruce Summers tries to strike a deal with Santorum supporters and is flatly rejected. The Ronulans promptly elect a new chairman of the caucus and the Romney supporters, seeing the math, fall into line, offering to join with the Ron Paul forces just to be able to get a piece of the delegation that will go onto State.

Santorum forces become so defensive over the invasion of young Ronulans in Cass County that they make a deal with Romney they didn’t have to make. Just to be certain of keeping out the Ron Paul supporters, they give up five delegates to Romney, their main rival for the GOP nomination. Like the Ron Paul deals with Romney, it is a tactical decision of strategic incompetence.

In Iowa, where it all began last January, where the Romney State Chairman delayed reports that Santorum had really won after all, they have announced a new State Chairman. He is A.J. Spiker, the State co-chairman for Ron Paul for president. And still, the AP delegate tracker suggests that split of delegates from Iowa will be Santorum 14, Romney 12, and Ron Paul 1. Clearly, if the Ronulans can replace the Romney State Chair with their own man, they will get much more than one delegate to Tampa.
So who are these Ron Paul supporters? They are young. He carried 48% of the youth vote in Iowa, 47% in New Hampshire, while six other candidates split the rest. They are Hispanic. He carried 52% of the Hispanic vote in Clark County, Nevada ( Las Vegas) while all of the others split the rest. And they are Independents. In a recent CBS poll he did better among Independents than all other candidates including Barack Obama.

And that means that they are the future. It means they are going to keep coming. They cannot be stopped, only delayed. And not for long. They are coming. They are coming.

http://rt.com/news/blogs/contrarian-view/ron-paul-strategy-republican/

[ELVIS]

Vedy vedy intedesting...

[Nickdfresh]

Vedy vedy intedesting...

Like the fact you believe it's okay for people to arbitrarily assassinate anyone in their neighborhood under the (completely bullshit) guise of "self-defense." Good one, liber'tard...

[Nitro Express]

Like the fact you believe it's okay for people to arbitrarily assassinate anyone in their neighborhood under the (completely bullshit) guise of "self-defense." Good one, liber'tard...

Another good way to reduce the carbon footprint. People exhale carbon dioxide and they use products that add to the carbon footprint which causes global warming. Elvis' philosophy is good for the planet and green friendly. Any way we can reduce the human population is a good thing.

[FORD]

Too bad the doctors didn't realize that last week, when they put a new heart into the body of a 71 year old mass murdering war criminal who had killed his own heart with cigarettes before he was 40.

[Dr. Love]

I've heard a lot of stories like this... Paul supporters getting themselves elected as delegates with the intent to be bound for another candidate at the national convention for the first ballot, believing that no one will have enough to clinch the nomination. Then they will be free to swap their support to Paul.


Ron Paul supporters claim victories in Nevada
The Associated Press
Sunday, April 1, 2012 | 6:31 p.m.


Supporters of Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul say they came away with all 75 state delegates from Nye County and more than half of 108 state delegates from Douglas County in convention voting Saturday.

But leaders of the Nye Republican Central Committee say they plan to appeal the vote to the state GOP Credentials Committee because Paul backers violated party rules and state law, prompting them to leave before the election.

"Me and the others left early because the Paul supporters violated state law, and were unruly and rowdy," said Fely A. Quitevis, chair of the Nye GOP. "I couldn't stand it anymore and gave up. In my heart and mind, I know I did the right thing."

Paul supporters maintain Nye GOP leaders cheated by trying to convene the convention with unelected delegates, and they elected a chair who oversaw a fair election.

"Supporters of Dr. Paul are reshaping Republican politics in Nevada," Carl Bunce, Nevada chairman of Paul's campaign, said in a statement. "They have the stamina and determination to bring the party back to its limited-government roots, county by county."

Last month, Paul backers captured more than half of Clark County's 1,382 delegates to the state convention in Sparks in May. They also won 14 of the Clark GOP's 21 executive board positions. The county encompassing Las Vegas is the state's most populous.

While Paul supporters have said they share the GOP goal of defeating President Barack Obama, the Paul factor could complicate matters at the state convention.

Four years ago, GOP leaders who supported then-presidential candidate John McCain abruptly shut down the state convention in Reno when it appeared Paul would take most of Nevada's delegates to the national convention.

The state convention will elect 28 delegates to the Republican National Convention this summer in Tampa, Fla.

Ralph McMullen, parliamentarian for the state Republican Party, said it would be up to the credentials committee to decide whether the Nye election was legal. The panel also will consider a similar controversy involving Carson City's state delegates, he added.

"I don't care who wins as long as the rules are followed," McMullen said. "We don't want a repeat of 2008. The main thing is you win it fairly and squarely."

Bunce has said Paul supporters would follow rules requiring Nevada's 28 delegates to be bound on the first ballot to vote in line with the GOP caucus-winning percentages. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney earned 14 of those delegates because he finished with 50 percent of the caucus vote in February.

But delegates could switch to other candidates if a contested convention leads to more than one ballot.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/apr/01/nv-ron-paul-nevada-1st-ld-writethru/

[LoungeMachine]

Ahhh..the conspiracy theory campaign strategy....

:gulp:

lolz

[FORD]

I certainly hope all these stealth Paul delegates are also working just as hard as getting Liberals elected to Congress. Because to do otherwise would make them treasonous Randtard scum.

[Dr. Love]

I doubt it, FORD, but it's not treason to vote for non-liberal candidates.

[FORD]

The agenda of Randtard "libertarian" anarchism is practically textbook treason, since destroying the USA (as we know it) is the whole idea.

[Nitro Express]

I certainly hope all these stealth Paul delegates are also working just as hard as getting Liberals elected to Congress. Because to do otherwise would make them treasonous Randtard scum.

I don't think there are any real liberals in power anymore. Liberals used to be the free speech and protest people. They were the disenters. Pretty much what you saw in the 60's with civil rights and the war protesting. It worked too.

Then what the liberals were fighting, the old money corporate establishment infiltrated the Democratic party. We supposedly have a liberal president now but he's shut up or go to jail. Protest and go to jail. The liberals no longer stand for free speech and citizens's rights. It represents tyranny. You are going to say what we want you to say or else! You are going to do what we want you to do or else!

I don't see any liberals anymore, just corrupt politicians who claim to be liberal sucking GE's and Goldman Sach's cock. The Democratic party has become everything the Democrats in the 60's were protesting about.

[Nitro Express]

The agenda of Randtard "libertarian" anarchism is practically textbook treason, since destroying the USA (as we know it) is the whole idea.

I see the Bush/Obama agenda as treason. You may not agree with some of the domestic policy but we have an out of control central bank that has gone completely rogue. If we don't get the Federal Reserve under control nothing else will matter. Someone better stand up and start throwing some of these crooks in jail because if we don't, it will cause a full blown revolution. Someone has to start turning the ship and it ain't going to be Obama. I doubt Romney will be any better.

[FORD]

Those DLC sellouts are not Liberals. They barely qualify as "Democrats".

[Dr. Love]

Ron Paul had 5,200 people turn out for his rally in Wisconsin. The next day, Romney had 700 show up for his.

[Nitro Express]

Those DLC sellouts are not Liberals. They barely qualify as "Democrats".

Yeah but you only have a small handful of real liberals in office now. You don't hold any power.

[Dr. Love]

Ron Paul draws his largest crowd yet - 5,200 people in Wisconsin!

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Angel Clark
Delaware Elections 2010 Examiner
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Last night 1,800 people packed inside a building in Maryland while 200 people lined up outside. All to see Dr. Ron Paul. Tonight, more than 5,200 people stood outside in 40 degree weather to hear Dr. Paul speak. This beats his previous record and is now the largest Town Hall meeting Dr. Paul has had to date!

Ron Paul supporters are enthusiastic, dedicated, and motivated. Many politicians have attempted to wrestle control of Ron Paul supporters by floating rumors regarding secret deals and back room meetings. These politicians do not seem to realize that this is a movement and is about more than just one man.

I was sent the following email on March 29, 2012 at 9:21 pm:

LAKE JACKSON, Texas – 2012 Republican Presidential candidate Ron Paul attracted an amazing more than 5,200 supporters and undecided voters to a college campus town hall meeting in Wisconsin, breaking his record of drawing large crowds to campaign events.


The 12-term Congressman from Texas’ campus town hall meeting took place at 7:00 p.m. CST outdoors on the Memorial Union Terrace – Waterfront, located at 800 Langdon Street, Madison, WI 53706. Event organizers noted that the thousands of event attendees braved a brisk 40-degree breeze emanating from nearby lakes Mendota and Monona.

At the event, Dr. Paul spoke to an admiring crowd about the need for constitutionally-limited government, the enduring ties between civil and economic liberties, and key elements of his ‘Plan to Restore America,’ an oft-praised economic blueprint designed to reverse the rapid growth in government, spending, and borrowing that threatens prosperity and freedom.

Just yesterday, Dr. Paul drew a crowd of more than 2,000 people to his University of Maryland – College Park town hall meeting held inside Ritchie Coliseum.

UPDATE: Examiner.com has declared this article is not newsworthy. This writer disagrees. Please get this news out.

Another UPDATE: While Dr. Paul was speaking in Wisconsin, Vice-President Biden was also speaking in Wisconsin. Biden had over 150 supporters show up.

If you wish to ensure you receive email updates to all of Angel's articles please subscribe clicking the link above or join her Facebook Fan Page. Angel is also the Wilmington Prepper Examiner and the Wilmington Civil Rights Examiner. You can read Angel's last article here. Feel free to comment below and follow Angel on her Twitter! You may listen to Angel LIVE Monday through Friday from 5-7 pm EST on RadioFreedom.us. You may learn more about her Talk Radio Topics and the Radio Freedom News Network on The Angel Clark Show Fan Page!

http://www.examiner.com/elections-2010-in-wilmington/ron-paul-draws-his-largest-crowd-yet-5-200-people-wisconsin

[FORD]

I see the Bush/Obama agenda as treason. You may not agree with some of the domestic policy but we have an out of control central bank that has gone completely rogue. If we don't get the Federal Reserve under control nothing else will matter. Someone better stand up and start throwing some of these crooks in jail because if we don't, it will cause a full blown revolution. Someone has to start turning the ship and it ain't going to be Obama. I doubt Romney will be any better.

I pretty much agree with Ron Paul about the Federal Reserve (as does Dennis Kucinich) but his agenda goes far beyond that. He wants to destroy the legitimate Federal Government, not just the private banking cartel pretending to be a "Federal" agency. And that's why I say the only way a Ron Paul presidency is acceptable is with a congress controlled by actual Liberals. Together they can end the wars and overhaul/eliminate the "Federal" Reserve. But all this Randtard fantasy bullshit about eliminating every last regulation, and every Federal agency.... that's just a nightmare that would make people beg for the "good old days" of the BCE. Or the Mayan apocalypse on December 21.... which ever can happen first.

[Nitro Express]

The agenda of Randtard "libertarian" anarchism is practically textbook treason, since destroying the USA (as we know it) is the whole idea.

I would say G.W. Bush and Obama beat Rand to it. This sure as hell isn't the United States I was living in before those two assholes got elected. Look at how much we have lost since the 90's and look at how much less stuff your dollar buys. I really don't see getting rid of the FDA or EPA as treason. I would say violating the US Constitution is. Right now those in power say we have no rights. They can just lock us up with no trial for anything they suspect and even kill us or take our citizenship away. I would say that's a pretty good definition of a rogue government. They kind of forgot it's WE THE PEOPLE. The country survived without the EPA and even the FDA. It won't survive without a constitutional rule of law.

[Nitro Express]

The problem with these agencies is 60% of our budget gets spent in them. Plus, they are ran by non-elected beurocrats that have a huge affect on how our nation runs. I worked for the Department of Energy for awhile and it's never provided the public with anything worth justifying the huge amount of money it burns through. Also, it's actually illegal to talk to a member of Congress if you head these agencies. They have become so powerful they are a government unto themselves. Government is going to get trimmed one of two ways. A president trimming the agencies or a Revolution tearing it apart. Take your pick.

[Dr. Love]

The worst part is that my generation will be the one to suffer all the consequences of you dumb shits and your inability to do anything but "pick the lesser evil" and shrug your shoulders as the country falls apart, bickering over every little waste of time rather than do what's necessary to move things forward.

[FORD]

Ron Paul had 5,200 people turn out for his rally in Wisconsin. The next day, Romney had 700 show up for his.

Romney's rally had Scott Walker signs all around and Jockstrap Ryan turned up to endorse him. There couldn't be two more unpopular people in Wisconsin right now.