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FORD
02-02-2012, 08:18 PM
Is Israel preparing to attack Iran?
By David Ignatius, Thursday, February 2, 7:42 AM

BRUSSELS

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has a lot on his mind these days, from cutting the defense budget to managing the drawdown of U.S. forces in Afghanistan. But his biggest worry is the growing possibility that Israel will attack Iran over the next few months.

Panetta believes there is a strong likelihood that Israel will strike Iran in April, May or June — before Iran enters what Israelis described as a “zone of immunity” to commence building a nuclear bomb. Very soon, the Israelis fear, the Iranians will have stored enough enriched uranium in deep underground facilities to make a weapon — and only the United States could then stop them militarily.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu doesn’t want to leave the fate of Israel dependent on American action, which would be triggered by intelligence that Iran is building a bomb, which it hasn’t done yet.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak may have signaled the prospect of an Israeli attack soon when he asked last month to postpone a planned U.S.-Israel military exercise that would culminate in a live-fire phase in May. Barak apologized that Israel couldn’t devote the resources to the annual exercise this spring.

President Obama and Panetta are said to have cautioned the Israelis that the United States opposes an attack, believing that it would derail an increasingly successful international economic sanctions program and other non-military efforts to stop Iran from crossing the threshold. But the White House hasn’t yet decided precisely how the United States would respond if the Israelis do attack.

The Obama administration is conducting intense discussions about what an Israeli attack would mean for the United States: whether Iran would target U.S. ships in the region or try to close the Strait of Hormuz; and what effect the conflict and a likely spike in oil prices would have on the fragile global economy.

The administration appears to favor staying out of the conflict unless Iran hits U.S. assets, which would trigger a strong U.S. response.

This U.S. policy — signaling that Israel is acting on its own — might open a breach like the one in 1956, when President Dwight Eisenhower condemned an Israeli-European attack on the Suez Canal. Complicating matters is the 2012 presidential campaign, which has Republicans candidates clamoring for stronger U.S. support of Israel.

Administration officials caution that Tehran shouldn’t misunderstand: The United States has a 60-year commitment to Israeli security, and if Israel’s population centers were hit, the United States could feel obligated to come to Israel’s defense.

Israelis are said to believe that a military strike could be limited and contained. They would bomb the uranium-enrichment facility at Natanz and other targets; an attack on the buried enrichment facility at Qom would be harder from the air. Iranians would retaliate, but Israelis doubt that the action would be an overwhelming barrage, with rockets from Hezbollah forces in Lebanon. One Israeli estimate is that the Jewish state might have to absorb 500 casualties.

Israelis point to Syria’s lack of response to an Israeli attack on a nuclear reactor there in 2007. Iranians might show similar restraint, because of fear the regime would be endangered by all-out war. Some Israelis have also likened a strike on Iran to the 1976 hostage-rescue raid on Entebbe, Uganda, which was followed by a change of regime in that country.

Israeli leaders are said to accept, and even welcome, the prospect of going it alone and demonstrating their resolve at a time when their security is undermined by the Arab Spring.

“You stay to the side, and let us do it,” one Israeli official is said to have advised the United States. A “short-war” scenario assumes five days or so of limited Israeli strikes, followed by a U.N.-brokered cease-fire. The Israelis are said to recognize that damage to the nuclear program might be modest, requiring another strike in a few years.

U.S. officials see two possible ways to dissuade the Israelis from such an attack: Tehran could finally open serious negotiations for a formula to verifiably guarantee that its nuclear program will remain a civilian one; or the United States could step up its covert actions to degrade the program so much that Israelis would decide that military action wasn’t necessary.

U.S. officials don’t think that Netanyahu has made a final decision to attack, and they note that top Israeli intelligence officials remain skeptical of the project. But senior Americans doubt that the Israelis are bluffing. They’re worrying about the guns of spring — and the unintended consequences.

davidignatius@washpost.com

© The Washington Post Company (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/is-israel-preparing-to-attack-iran/2012/02/02/gIQANjfTkQ_story.html)

Seshmeister
02-02-2012, 08:28 PM
If only there was some sort of recent history we could learn from...

kwame k
02-02-2012, 08:41 PM
If only there was some sort of recent history we could learn from...

I Googled it.....nothing's coming up:headlights:

Dr. Love
02-02-2012, 09:46 PM
Let Iran and Israel duke it out ... move our guys out of the area, and just let them fight it out until it's all settled. Let them deal with it themselves.

I'm tired of us getting in the middle of everything. This is not our fight.

Va Beach VH Fan
02-02-2012, 10:23 PM
Shit's getting real interesting....

Of course, whatever stance the President takes, which I agree should be nothing, it'll be the wrong one according to the Right....

Where it could get real hairy is the possibility of Saudi Arabia and the UAE.... Israeli fighters might have to go over Saudi airspace and refuel....

FORD
02-02-2012, 10:29 PM
I don't think NuttyYahoo would even be seriously considering this if he didn't have an agreement with the House of Saud.

After all, they're Wahabbist Sunnis, and Iran is Shia. Not like they're the best of friends either.

Nickdfresh
02-02-2012, 10:37 PM
And the House of Saud are going to be the recipients of one of the largest aircraft orders in modern history of F-15 Eagles, largely out of the fear of Iran...

sadaist
02-02-2012, 10:43 PM
Let Iran and Israel duke it out ... move our guys out of the area, and just let them fight it out until it's all settled. Let them deal with it themselves.

I'm tired of us getting in the middle of everything. This is not our fight.


It will never be settled. 1000's of years these people have hated each other. Will continue until 1 is vanished. The the Hatfields will just find a new McCoys. Never fucking ends.

Va Beach VH Fan
02-02-2012, 10:48 PM
I don't think NuttyYahoo would even be seriously considering this if he didn't have an agreement with the House of Saud.

After all, they're Wahabbist Sunnis, and Iran is Shia. Not like they're the best of friends either.

Now just wait a minute....

You're not implying that it might be possible that people might die over religion, are you ??

FORD
02-02-2012, 10:49 PM
And the House of Saud are going to be the recipients of one of the largest aircraft orders in modern history of F-15 Eagles, largely out of the fear of Iran...

Yeah, that's right, I forgot about that shit.

Malloy was just talking about some bullshit propaganda report that aired on ABC News the other night, claiming that Iran was a "serious terrorist threat to the US".

The serial adulterer and the frothy mixture are babbling on and on in their debates about "Iranian terraists sneaking across the Mexican border" presumably after spending the weekend at Hugo Chavez' house in Caracas. Clearly the propaganda initiative is ramping up. How long before Condi Rice is on FAUX News whining about a mushroom cloud over NYC??

FORD
02-02-2012, 10:49 PM
Now just wait a minute....

You're not implying that it might be possible that people might die over religion, are you ??

Certainly wouldn't be the first time :(

Va Beach VH Fan
02-02-2012, 10:52 PM
Certainly wouldn't be the first time :(

Actually, wouldn't be like the 500th time, but at this point, who's counting....

Dr. Love
02-02-2012, 10:57 PM
they can kill each other all they want for all of me, so long as we stay out of it.

FORD
02-02-2012, 11:10 PM
they can kill each other all they want for all of me, so long as we stay out of it.

If only that were possible. But if this happens, it will become World War III. Quite possibly even the Biblical war of Ezekiel 38/39. And it doesn't matter whether you take the scriptures seriously or not, the way the sides line up in that battle (Essentially Russia, leading Iran and a bunch of other Muslim countries against Israel) sounds very much like what would happen in reality.

Now there are differing theological views on whether this battle and the battle of Armegeddon (i.e. "end of the world" are one in the same), but goddamn it, there's a new Van HALEN album out, and they're on tour. The world can't fucking end NOW, god damn it! :mad:

Seshmeister
02-02-2012, 11:12 PM
Shit's getting real interesting....

Of course, whatever stance the President takes, which I agree should be nothing, it'll be the wrong one according to the Right....

Where it could get real hairy is the possibility of Saudi Arabia and the UAE.... Israeli fighters might have to go over Saudi airspace and refuel....

You forget this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-saudis-iran

Seshmeister
02-02-2012, 11:14 PM
If only that were possible. But if this happens, it will become World War III. Quite possibly even the Biblical war of Ezekiel 38/39. And it doesn't matter whether you take the scriptures seriously or not, the way the sides line up in that battle (Essentially Russia, leading Iran and a bunch of other Muslim countries against Israel) sounds very much like what would happen in reality.

Now there are differing theological views on whether this battle and the battle of Armegeddon (i.e. "end of the world" are one in the same)

Oh not this crap again...

Oh fuck I walked under a ladder! rolleyes etc

Dr. Love
02-02-2012, 11:23 PM
Russia... I doubt. Even the other arab countries I'd only give a chance to joining in. They hate israel but they aren't big on iran either. They may take a similar view -- let two problem peoples kill each other off.

FORD
02-02-2012, 11:23 PM
Well, here's the thing, Sesh......

Like I said, regardless of whether or not you believe the Scriptures, the "teams" for this war, if Israel attacks Iran, and Iran seeks retribution (which they no doubt would) are probably going to be pretty much like those mentioned.

However, assuming you're correct and there is no God, then He won't be there to save Israel's ass when this huge coalition marches into Israel, so the ending of the story will be the opposite of the Biblical account, unless Israel decides to blow up nuclear warheads on their own soil and kill millions of their own just to stop this invasion. Which of course, NuttyYahoo is just fucking crazy enough to do.

Nitro Express
02-03-2012, 12:17 AM
Let Iran and Israel duke it out ... move our guys out of the area, and just let them fight it out until it's all settled. Let them deal with it themselves.

I'm tired of us getting in the middle of everything. This is not our fight.

The problem is half the world's Jew's live in the US. A small number of people but they have a lot of money and political clout. Then of course you have the evangelical Christians who side with the Jews.

Having lived there I came up with the conclusion Israel is not our friend. It attacked one of our ships when it was flying the US flag and was clearly marked as a US naval vessel. Also, Israel is just as big of a thug if not worse than who it's saying it's trying to defend itself against. Just ask anyone from Lebanon. The Jews and Muslims have gotten along in the middle east for a long time until the Zionists started behaving arrogant. There are jews in Iran. Of course the pro Zionist Israel press won't tell your that.

Nitro Express
02-03-2012, 12:22 AM
Iran is part of the Shanghai alliance which includes China and Russia. China would love to build an oil pipeline to Iran. No if Israel attacks Iran it's the end of Israel. Not even their nuclear arsenal can save them. The question is not if Israel will fall the question is when.

Seshmeister
02-03-2012, 12:31 AM
Well, here's the thing, Sesh......

Like I said, regardless of whether or not you believe the Scriptures, the "teams" for this war, if Israel attacks Iran, and Iran seeks retribution (which they no doubt would) are probably going to be pretty much like those mentioned.

However, assuming you're correct and there is no God, then He won't be there to save Israel's ass when this huge coalition marches into Israel, so the ending of the story will be the opposite of the Biblical account, unless Israel decides to blow up nuclear warheads on their own soil and kill millions of their own just to stop this invasion. Which of course, NuttyYahoo is just fucking crazy enough to do.

Hey I get the whole Christianity thing totally but to me and I would estimate about 99% of the population here in Europe, the apocalypse, revelations and making stuff up based on bible 'prophecies' is just so out there that I can't engage at all. You may as well be talking about Lord of the Rings or Star Wars when you go there and even the vast majority of Christians worldwide would back me on that.

Sorry but it's a peculiar mental tick I'm guessing that goes back to a baptist upbringing or something that you should IMHO have a go at just stepping back from for a minute and analysing what the basis is for it.

I only say that because I am trying to be less of a dick about the anti religion thing these days particularly where it provides a support to people and we all need a crutch but I really don't think the revelations stuff is useful to anyone, nihilism just can't be. It's a extraordinary privilege to be alive, tenfold to be alive in the first world at this time so if there was a god wouldn't it not be incredibly ungrateful to spend your all too brief life on equating the rantings of bronze age fucking goat herders to modern political problems?

vandeleur
02-03-2012, 11:39 AM
Iran is part of the Shanghai alliance which includes China and Russia. China would love to build an oil pipeline to Iran. No if Israel attacks Iran it's the end of Israel. Not even their nuclear arsenal can save them. The question is not if Israel will fall the question is when.

If israel and iran kick off israel has to go nuclear if it is to have any chance ... and that is almost unthinkable
If iran overrun israel it is almost unthinkable that the united states wouldnt get dragged in .......
Either option is bad shit and will end up with the US getting dragged into another shitty war if not a huge shitty war in some shitehole country over some total bollox ... at least when it was over oil it made kinda sense .

Pink Spider
02-03-2012, 02:49 PM
I only say that because I am trying to be less of a dick about the anti religion thing these days particularly where it provides a support to people and we all need a crutch but I really don't think the revelations stuff is useful to anyone, nihilism just can't be. It's a extraordinary privilege to be alive, tenfold to be alive in the first world at this time so if there was a god wouldn't it not be incredibly ungrateful to spend your all too brief life on equating the rantings of bronze age fucking goat herders to modern political problems?


Exactly this. They had next to no knowledge of the universe at all, much less so the future. They thought that the moon was it's own light source and that millions of species could fit on an ark. Why is revelations supposed to be any more credible? I have no trouble with people believing in a god of some sort, or being spiritual without being a dick about it, but the bible is a bunch of nonsense.

Case in point...the time that revelations was supposed to take place has probably already passed. Or at least contradicts.


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/end.html

The end will come within the lifetime of Jesus' listeners.

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." -- Matthew16:28

"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." -- Luke 9:27

"Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." -- Matthew 23:36

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matthew 24:34

"Nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." -- Matthew 26:64

"Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." -- Mark 9:1

"Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." -- Mark 13:30

"And ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." -- Mark 14:62

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." -- Luke 21:32

"Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" -- John 21:22

The end will come within the lifetime of the the New Testament authors.

"Waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ ... that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." -- 1 Corinthians 1:7-8

"But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none." -- 1 Corinthians 7:29

"That ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. -- Philippians 1:10

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." -- 1 Thessalonians 4:17

"I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:23

"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son...." -- Hebrews 1:2

"But now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." -- Hebrews 9:26

"Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you." -- 1 Peter 1:20

"But the end of all things is at hand." -- 1 Peter 4:7

"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." -- 1 John 2:18

The end will come soon. (Within a couple thousand years or so.)

"The Lord is at hand." -- Philippians 4:5

"For the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." -- James 5:8

"For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry." -- Hebrews 10:37

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass. -- Revelation 1:1

"The time is at hand." -- Revelation 1:3

"Behold, I come quickly." -- Revelation 3:11, 22:7, 22:12

"Surely I come quickly." -- Revelation 22:20

So, he has trouble coming. Messiah dysfunction most likely. ;)

K-tuna
02-03-2012, 04:38 PM
Fuck IRAN. Bomb the shit out of their nuke sites.

Funny how everyone forgets Achmidinanutjob constantly calls for the destruction of Israel and even Quote" WIPE THEM OFF THE MAP" , Funds terrorism, tries to destabilize countries and oh yeah just recently tried to plan a assassination of a US statesman.

China won't do shit neither will Russia because Putie has his own problems to worry about.

Israel has a right to exist, people have a right to exist, and if it takes dropping some massive bunker busters on their sites. Let 'em fucking Fly.

and BTW, if we're talking fucking backward religions, Achmadinanutjob is whats called a "Twelver" and is doing all this because he believes in the 12th imam and hastening his return by ushering in a war between Islam and the infidels.

Pink Spider
02-03-2012, 05:39 PM
Funny how everyone forgets Achmidinanutjob constantly calls for the destruction of Israel and even Quote" WIPE THEM OFF THE MAP" , Funds terrorism, tries to destabilize countries and oh yeah just recently tried to plan a assassination of a US statesman.



The quote was mistranslated. Even if it wasn't, so? Israeli and American politicians talk about blowing Iran off the map every day. Trash talking is not a reason for a war.

Destabilizes countries? You're seriously going to go with that one?

K-tuna
02-03-2012, 09:24 PM
The quote was mistranslated. Even if it wasn't, so? Israeli and American politicians talk about blowing Iran off the map every day. Trash talking is not a reason for a war.

Destabilizes countries? You're seriously going to go with that one?


Oh really ? mistranslated? trash talking? ( im sorry how does WE WANT TO WIPE ISRAEL OFF THE MAP get mistranslated....what was he somehow saying "Im a nice guy lets shake hands?")..... Thank god you weren't around or running anything when fucking Hitler was cooking Jewish folks for fun.

Oh the leader of country that sponsors terrorism...THAT OPENLY CALLS FOR THE ERADICATION OF ALL JEWISH PEOPLE is ok with you?

When exactly will it be ok with the folks to stand up against countries like IRAN?

I 'll say it again, Fuck Iran and I hope Israel takes out their nuke sites.

FORD
02-03-2012, 10:10 PM
If Iran deserves to be destroyed for what one dumbass said (and was completely mistranslated), then does that mean Israel should be destroyed for all the stupid things NuttyYahoo (and Sharon before him) have said and done?

Pink Spider
02-03-2012, 10:14 PM
Oh really ? mistranslated? trash talking? ( im sorry how does WE WANT TO WIPE ISRAEL OFF THE MAP get mistranslated....what was he somehow saying "Im a nice guy lets shake hands?").....




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel
The translation presented by the official Islamic Republic News Agency has been challenged by Arash Norouzi, who says the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime occupying Jerusalem". Norouzi translated the original Persian to English, with the result, "the Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."[11] Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, agrees that Ahmadinejad's statement should be translated as, "the Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).[12] According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian." Instead, "he did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[13] The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translated the phrase similarly, as "this regime" must be "eliminated from the pages of history."[14]

There's a big difference in saying that you hope a government goes away and saying that you're going to wipe a country and people off of a map.


Thank god you weren't around or running anything when fucking Hitler was cooking Jewish folks for fun.

Even BigBadBrian was more subtle in his trolling. You never ever go for NAZI card straight away.



Oh the leader of country that sponsors terrorism...THAT OPENLY CALLS FOR THE ERADICATION OF ALL JEWISH PEOPLE is ok with you?

"Jews are respected by everyone, by all human beings ... some people think if they accuse me of being anti-Jew they can solve the problem. No, I am not anti-Jew ... I respect them very much ... We love everyone in the world – Jews, Christians, Muslims, non-Muslims, non-Jews, non-Christians". - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Run, it's Hitler!

Iran is also home to 40,000 Jews.
Next time, maybe you should look into something called FACTS.



I 'll say it again, Fuck Iran and I hope Israel takes out their nuke sites.

I really hope that Faux News goes bankrupt.

LoungeMachine
02-03-2012, 11:19 PM
I've missed the Pink One.....

:gulp:

kwame k
02-04-2012, 12:01 AM
I've missed the Pink One.....

:gulp:

Can lay down an old school slap down, for sure!

Nickdfresh
02-06-2012, 08:01 PM
There's a great article in the present edition of Time Magazine about all this, basically stating that even senior commanders in the Israeli Defense Forces believe they cannot successfully impair Iran's nuke research for very long and are actually arguing against strikes...