'International Permission’ Trumps Congressional Permission For Military Actions [Archive]

Nitro Express

03-08-2012, 04:45 AM

Let me tell the world something...

FUCK THESE FUCKING BASTARDS !@!!!!

This fucking sold out country is finished !!

It's over unless people wake up and take our country back !!!

:elvis:

It's all about putting the US under the control of the UN. Hillary just agreed to the UN small arms ban treaty. The current batch of politicians are pretty much gonzo. Only a very small minority are upholding the supreme law of the land. The thing is everything they are doing is blatantly illegal but they are just going ahead with their agenda thinking most of us have no clue what our rights are or will do anything about it. We no longer have a functioning constitutional government so it's going to be the citizens that are going to have to stand up and tell them to shove it and refuse to cooperate. It's time to grow a pair people.

I don't think they have enough muscle to enforce martial law. They might start harassing certain groups here and there. What they will probably do is declare a bank holiday and seize people's bank accounts. Homeland Security is set up to do exactly that. Oh well. I saw this coming down the pike and prepared for it.

Nitro Express

03-08-2012, 05:11 AM

I think with all the banking scams surfacing the powers that be just have to take things over by force because their money deception games are being exposed. They have ruined their own banking system due to rampant speculation and leverage. Then the flow of foreign money has been cut off. So the FED prints funny money but that is only good in the US and Bernanke avoids hyperinflation by keeping the new money off market and only trading it between the big banks and corporations. This is why we have a rallying DOW Jones Industrial Average and huge unemployment numbers. It's just nothing more than financial hocus pocus. At the end of the day you have to grab real power and this is what they are trying to do because they are desperate.

Seshmeister

03-08-2012, 06:22 AM

Are you posting from your nuclear shelter in the woods? :)

ELVIS

03-08-2012, 01:28 PM

kwame k

03-08-2012, 01:31 PM

Welcome to the club, E!

Now you know how we felt during the 8 years of Dubya!

ELVIS

03-08-2012, 01:32 PM

No dude, you don't get it...

This is the UN taking over the government and the military...

kwame k

03-08-2012, 01:36 PM

Yes, I get it and I got it years before you got a clue, bro!

This is nothing new!

ELVIS

03-08-2012, 01:40 PM

Yes it is!

George Bush had CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL for what he did...

Fast foward to two minutes and fourty seconds and pay attention!!!

:elvis:

Nitro Express

03-08-2012, 01:42 PM

Are you posting from your nuclear shelter in the woods? :)

No. I work with organizations full of millions of people who realize what our government leaders are doing now is blatantly illegal and not as powerful as they want us to believe they are. Like I said, they have all this propaganda trying to scare people into just taking it so they won't be arrested but in reality, they have no way to completely reinforcing it.

It's a bunch of bankers that bought a bunch of dumb politicians and they infiltrated parts of the government at high levels and they are trying to have their way. This has pretty much been going on in the US for the last 100 years ever since the Federal Reserve Bank charter was set up. It was a 100 year charter too. It expires next year. In short it's a rogue banking system with roque patsy politicians trying to keep something completely based on bullshit afloat with leaks spewing out all over the world here and there. They have saber rattled Iran for ten years. They need a big ass war. It's the only card they have left to play but people aren't buying it. The cat is out of the bag. It's OZ with a bunch of geriatric old fucks behind the curtain trying to scare everyone. We will take your money away! We will arrest you! The terrorists are coming! A flu pandemic is coming! Anything to make us think we need to quiver in fear and give them more power. It's nothing but a blatant in the open power grab now and everyone is seeing it and that is a good thing.

Who really hold the cards in this country are the citizens themselves. We have a supreme document outlining the laws of the land. When our leaders break those laws we just need to say FUCK YOU! You are breaking the law and we aren't doing shit. It's that simple and we don't even need to elect the next so called supermen to do it. They don't have enough power to make us do shit all they can hope to do is trick us into doing what they want and that is what their media propaganda is for. They will try and stir race riots, fan the flames of class warfare, anything to keep the masses divided. They have already tried. It's not working.

They would actually love everyone to go into a nuclear proof bunker. No opposition and they can finish taking over. Nope, we need to be in their face and off their corrupt bullshit system.

Nitro Express

03-08-2012, 01:57 PM

Welcome to the club, E!

Now you know how we felt during the 8 years of Dubya!

The whole Republican vs. Democrat thing is so passe. It no longer counts. It's who sides with the US Constitution and who does not at this point my friend.

ELVIS

03-08-2012, 02:05 PM

Exactly, Nitro...

ELVIS

03-09-2012, 11:38 AM

:elvos:

BigBadBrian

03-09-2012, 11:38 AM

Yes, I get it and I got it years before you got a clue, bro!

This is nothing new!

Like it or not, W had Congressional permission for Afghanistan and Iraq.

:gulp:

BigBadBrian

03-09-2012, 11:40 AM

Elvis is correct: Obama is a traitorous fuck for even thinking about getting permission from an assinine world body like the UN before deciding US policy.

BigBadBrian

03-09-2012, 11:41 AM

It's all about putting the US under the control of the UN. Hillary just agreed to the UN small arms ban treaty. The current batch of politicians are pretty much gonzo. Only a very small minority are upholding the supreme law of the land. The thing is everything they are doing is blatantly illegal but they are just going ahead with their agenda thinking most of us have no clue what our rights are or will do anything about it. We no longer have a functioning constitutional government so it's going to be the citizens that are going to have to stand up and tell them to shove it and refuse to cooperate. It's time to grow a pair people.

I don't think they have enough muscle to enforce martial law. They might start harassing certain groups here and there. What they will probably do is declare a bank holiday and seize people's bank accounts. Homeland Security is set up to do exactly that. Oh well. I saw this coming down the pike and prepared for it.

I'm not sure about the seizing of bank accounts, but the rest of Nitro's post is dead on.

FORD

03-09-2012, 01:41 PM

Elvis is correct: Obama is a traitorous fuck for even thinking about getting permission from an assinine world body like the UN before deciding US policy.

You seem to forget that the entire BCE case for invading Iraq (the second time) was based on Saddam Hussein allegedly violating a UN resolution concerning WMDs.

In reality, since it turned out he didn't have any such weapons, he probably didn't actually violate the UN resolution either. But that WAS Chimpy's argument. Based on violations of an international body.

ELVIS

03-09-2012, 02:29 PM

That's totally different, FORD and you know it...

knuckleboner

03-09-2012, 06:39 PM

This is ILLEGAL!!!

This is a blatent treasonous takeover of the government and country...

It is CLEAR grounds for impeachment...

But none of the pussies here care...

Nitro is the only member here that understands what is going on...

And Dr. Love, I believe...

:elvis:

oh, the knuckleboner understands what's going on. it's just that in my understanding the sky's blue. sorry.

and jesus christ is this a non-issue.

he said, the U.S. acts militarily when 1) invited by another country (gulf war); 2) out of national security (afghanistan); or 3) under U.N. law (iraq war). he NEVER says that the U.S. is beholden to international law. this as an "issue" is absolutely pathetic.

ELVIS

03-09-2012, 06:59 PM

No it isn't...

gbranton

03-09-2012, 07:19 PM

I don't think they have enough muscle to enforce martial law.

Not in THIS part of the world. Nobody has that kind of muscle. We ALL have plenty of guns and know how to use them.

I would add to this thread but Nitro has my thoughts covered in their entirety.

Guitar Shark

03-09-2012, 07:33 PM

I would add to this thread but Nitro has my thoughts covered in their entirety.

That is truly a scary thought...

knuckleboner

03-10-2012, 09:15 AM

No it isn't...

you're going to need a little more than that. see, i explained what the guy actually said, and didn't say. i'm going to need a "why" from you.

ELVIS

03-10-2012, 10:11 AM

You see, that "kinetic military action" in Libya that was supposed to take "days, not weeks", but took nearly a year, was in fact WAR in the mind of sane americans...

So now we have Panetta basically telling congress that he and Oblama can perform another "kinetic military action" in Syria having "options" regarding where authorization might come from...

Well, knuckleheader...

That authorization can only legally come from the Congress of the United States...

:elvis:

Nickdfresh

03-10-2012, 11:43 AM

Nickdfresh

03-10-2012, 11:46 AM

oh, the knuckleboner understands what's going on. it's just that in my understanding the sky's blue. sorry.

and jesus christ is this a non-issue.

he said, the U.S. acts militarily when 1) invited by another country (gulf war); 2) out of national security (afghanistan); or 3) under U.N. law (iraq war). he NEVER says that the U.S. is beholden to international law. this as an "issue" is absolutely pathetic.

Say that again reeeaaallllyyyy sllllooooowwwww for these mouthbreathing 'tards lookin' to nitpick at the slightest excuse so they can rationalize voting for Rummny while holding their nose....

Nickdfresh

03-10-2012, 11:54 AM

You see, that "kinetic military action" in Libya that was supposed to take "days, not weeks", but took nearly a year, was in fact WAR in the mind of sane americans...

Gaddafi fell seven months after declaration of the no-fly-zone with most of the heavy fighting after six...

So now we have Panetta basically telling congress that he and Oblama can perform another "kinetic military action" in Syria having "options" regarding where authorization might come from...

Um, no. He's just heading off the notion that any possible military action would a unilateral U.S. one...

Well, knuckleheader...

That authorization can only legally come from the Congress of the United States...

Actually, the Executive branch has options for conducting limited military incursions without Congressional authorization, though that is not recommended...

ELVIS

03-10-2012, 12:03 PM

Dude, they are marching our troops into world war three against the will of "we the people" or our representatives....

ELVIS

03-10-2012, 12:05 PM

Say that again reeeaaallllyyyy sllllooooowwwww for these mouthbreathing 'tards lookin' to nitpick at the slightest excuse so they can rationalize voting for Rummny while holding their nose....

I'm not voting for Ro-money...

Dr. Love

03-10-2012, 12:07 PM

You're completely insane. Nothing will make you happy. Would you prefer we blundered into Iraqs and Vietnams without the slightest inclination that these things are not very good ideas.

Easy fix. If we want to commit acts of war, then we should declare war first.

The reason it doesn't happen is that (outside of Afghanistan in 2001) the Congress wouldn't pass declarations of war because the majority of the people would be opposed.

knuckleboner

03-10-2012, 01:14 PM

Dude, they are marching our troops into world war three against the will of "we the people" or our representatives....

nick is right.

whether it's right or wrong, it's nothing new. under your argument the country's been fucked since korea...

ELVIS

03-10-2012, 01:17 PM

under your argument the country's been fucked since korea...

There is an argument there...

But the federal government is like a dog, give an inch and they take a mile...

Time to reel some of this crap in...

:elvis:

knuckleboner

03-10-2012, 01:22 PM

Easy fix. If we want to commit acts of war, then we should declare war first.

The reason it doesn't happen is that (outside of Afghanistan in 2001) the Congress wouldn't pass declarations of war because the majority of the people would be opposed.

i would strongly support a law that broadly defined what constituted military action and required any president to get congressional authorization after a very short time period. i think i'd set it at a month. as opposed to the current near-indefinite permissible actions.

knuckleboner

03-10-2012, 01:26 PM

There is an argument there...

But the federal government is like a dog, give an inch and they take a mile...

Time to reel some of this crap in...

:elvis:

fair enough. though i was just trying to point out that if you're really upset about the situation outlined in the original post, then you should've been really upset for your entire life, since these things have been going on since the 40s. it doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't improve. but it also doesn't mean the situation is so much different than before. it's not.

ELVIS

03-10-2012, 01:49 PM

It's getting more and more that the gederal government seems to think it can do whatever it wants...

Nickdfresh

03-10-2012, 06:13 PM

Dude, they are marching our troops into world war three against the will of "we the people" or our representatives....

What does that have to do with the trite statements above? The gov't has always done that! WTF does U.N. rhetoric have to do with anything? Remember a war called Korea? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War) We even fought under the U.N. flag, and that was in the very early 1950's. I think it would be hard to argue that led to any sort of "one world gov't" conspiracy crap...

Nitro Express

03-12-2012, 11:48 AM

What does that have to do with the trite statements above? The gov't has always done that! WTF does U.N. rhetoric have to do with anything? Remember a war called Korea? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War) We even fought under the U.N. flag, and that was in the very early 1950's. I think it would be hard to argue that led to any sort of "one world gov't" conspiracy crap...

In 1947 the National Security Act was passed and it made national security the prime focus. The US Constitution started to be ignored around 1913. The income tax and federal reserve act were unconstitutional as was the NSA Act of 1947. So they have been rolling over the Constitution for almost 100 years. The NSA Act opened us up to participating in police actions and not declared wars. It has not been a good thing. What did we ever accomplish during the Vietnam war? It got the country into debt and got a bunch of people killed. We lost the war and now you can enjoy a nice beach vacation in Vietnam and we trade with them. Honestly. I have no idea why we trade with Vietnam and China but not Cuba. It's all such a fucking joke.

The funny thing is the federal income tax only legally applies to The District of Columbia and Puerto Rico but everyone has paid over the years due to fear of a federal judge ruling against you. Then the Federal Reserve Bank charter expires next year. Will it be renewed? Does it even matter?

George Carlin was right when he said power does what power wants to do.

A lot of things have been "unconstitutional" or illegal over the years but unless you can win in court or convince enough people it's wrong or bully the government down, you have to comply or else.

Nitro Express

03-12-2012, 11:56 AM

What does that have to do with the trite statements above? The gov't has always done that! WTF does U.N. rhetoric have to do with anything? Remember a war called Korea? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War) We even fought under the U.N. flag, and that was in the very early 1950's. I think it would be hard to argue that led to any sort of "one world gov't" conspiracy crap...

There already is a one world government. It's been there for years. It's the central banking system. In most industrialized countries the government doesn't issue the money. The central banks do. The Bank of Japan is partly owned by foreigners as is The Federal Reserve Bank. You control the world through interest rates. So this system has been in play in the US for 99 years. What's brought all the attention to it as of late was the Fed being involved in making 100 times leverage legal and then flooding the system with money so they could speculate with derivative scams. A system of make money and stick the loses to the taxpayer. If anything, it's the central banks who ruined the economy and so this is why you are hearing so much negative stuff about them.

I guess unconstitutional doesn't matter if it doesn't do too much damage but then it seems to once the damage has been done.

I think my dad was right. He always said people vote their pocketbook. To be honest, I don't think most people care if it's unconstitutional or not as long as they get their piece of the pie. If they benefit oh sure let's have more! People only stand up and get angry when they are no longer benefiting from it.

Nitro Express

03-12-2012, 12:12 PM

Not in THIS part of the world. Nobody has that kind of muscle. We ALL have plenty of guns and know how to use them.

I would add to this thread but Nitro has my thoughts covered in their entirety.

Firearms are great to protect yourself if civil unrest breaks out. The Koreans didn't get killed and looted during the LA riots because they were armed to the teeth. If you live in the intermountain western US who really wears the pants is the Mormon Church. They could put a man with a rifle on every street corner real quick if they ever wanted to. They have a system and they are organized.

The thing is you aren't going to go up against the US military with that kind of weaponry. But then they would have to replace the soldiers with foreigners who could operate the equipment and fire on US citizens. Lot's of rumors about setting up free trade zones and having the Chinese military come in and all that. Lot's of paranoia.

If anything, if it got real bad it would be like the civil war. You would have the military itself split up and war with the other part just like in the civil war. I think what's going on is it's a combination of military contractors wanting more war to make more money and the corrupt politicians and bankers needing a big war as a red herring. I mean you can rip people off when they are happy but when your bubble bursts and people are angry and the economy sucks and they find out who's been ripping them off, you need a distraction. War with China and Russia due to attacking Iran and Syria is one hell of a distraction. Maybe the fucks just figure they can crawl down in a bunker and let the nukes take care of their problems which is us. If anything I think it's safe to say our corporate and political leaders have gone completely insane.

Nickdfresh

03-12-2012, 05:14 PM

i would strongly support a law that broadly defined what constituted military action and required any president to get congressional authorization after a very short time period. i think i'd set it at a month. as opposed to the current near-indefinite permissible actions.

I totally agree with more stringent limitations on the Executive Branch in relation to use of force and the military. However some here may think we need a congressional declaration of war if we use Navy SEALs to rescue a hostage from Somali pirates...

Nickdfresh

03-12-2012, 05:25 PM

In 1947 the National Security Act was passed and it made national security the prime focus. The US Constitution started to be ignored around 1913. The income tax and federal reserve act were unconstitutional as was the NSA Act of 1947. So they have been rolling over the Constitution for almost 100 years. The NSA Act opened us up to participating in police actions and not declared wars. It has not been a good thing. What did we ever accomplish during the Vietnam war? It got the country into debt and got a bunch of people killed. We lost the war and now you can enjoy a nice beach vacation in Vietnam and we trade with them. Honestly. I have no idea why we trade with Vietnam and China but not Cuba. It's all such a fucking joke.

The funny thing is the federal income tax only legally applies to The District of Columbia and Puerto Rico but everyone has paid over the years due to fear of a federal judge ruling against you. Then the Federal Reserve Bank charter expires next year. Will it be renewed? Does it even matter?

George Carlin was right when he said power does what power wants to do.

A lot of things have been "unconstitutional" or illegal over the years but unless you can win in court or convince enough people it's wrong or bully the government down, you have to comply or else.

A bunch of vast over-generalizations, most of which are not supported by facts. The United States was under grave threat of nuclear annihilation, infiltration by enemy intelligence, and conventional defeat but many of the more tyrannical actions during the "Red Scares" after WWI and during the 1950's were overruled via the Judicial Branch citing the U.S. Constitution...

Nickdfresh

03-12-2012, 05:25 PM

There already is a one world government...

:rolleyes:

FORD

03-12-2012, 06:04 PM

I have no idea why we trade with Vietnam and China but not Cuba. It's all such a fucking joke.

The answer is the same as it usually is: Blame the BCE.

Prescott Bush Sr. personally lost a shitload of money when Castro nationalized the Cuban sugar plantations. It's been a grudge ever since, and doesn't really have a goddamn thing to do with "communism".

Meanwhile, Poppy was serving as Nixon's ambassador when he allegedly "opened" China. What he really did was begin the selling out of this country to the ChiComs, which Poppy soon outsourced to his brother, Prescott Jr, who created something called the "US-China Chamber of Commerce" which he chaired up to his death a couple of years ago.

So, same as it is with terrorist funding Saudi Arabia, the "most favored nations" are the ones who make money for the BCE.

knuckleboner

03-12-2012, 08:01 PM

The US Constitution started to be ignored around 1913. The income tax and federal reserve act were unconstitutional as was the NSA Act of 1947. .

DUDE! the income tax is explictly authorized by the 16th amendment to the constitution. by DEFINITION it's constitutional.

Dr. Love

03-12-2012, 08:55 PM

Wasn't the first or last bad idea that got into the constitution.

Nitro Express

03-12-2012, 09:15 PM

DUDE! the income tax is explictly authorized by the 16th amendment to the constitution. by DEFINITION it's constitutional.

There are arguments it was never properly ratified. The reality is you will never get a federal Judge to agree with you so you are in trouble if you don't pay up. The only way around it is to be a big wig like Timothy Geithner and then you are exempt I guess.

Nitro Express

03-12-2012, 09:23 PM

The answer is the same as it usually is: Blame the BCE.

Prescott Bush Sr. personally lost a shitload of money when Castro nationalized the Cuban sugar plantations. It's been a grudge ever since, and doesn't really have a goddamn thing to do with "communism".

Meanwhile, Poppy was serving as Nixon's ambassador when he allegedly "opened" China. What he really did was begin the selling out of this country to the ChiComs, which Poppy soon outsourced to his brother, Prescott Jr, who created something called the "US-China Chamber of Commerce" which he chaired up to his death a couple of years ago.

So, same as it is with terrorist funding Saudi Arabia, the "most favored nations" are the ones who make money for the BCE.

I believe Chase bank was doing business in China before Nixon even opened it up. You had people like Hammer and the Rockefellers doing business behind the iron curtain during times when they were supposedly closed. It's always banking and oil interesting enough.