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DLR'sCock
06-17-2004, 11:20 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/16/politics/16panel.html




Panel Investigating 9/11 Attacks
Cites Confusion in Air Defense
By Philip Shenon
New York Times

Wednesday 16 June 2004

Washington - The independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks has found that the Pentagon's domestic air-defense command was disastrously unprepared for a major terrorist strike on American soil and was slow and confused in its response to the hijackings that morning, according to officials who have read a draft report of the commission's findings.

The officials said the draft had been circulated in recent days among commission members and at the Pentagon in preparation for public release of the report at a hearing on Thursday.

[In Spain on Tuesday, a judge ordered 15 people to stand trial in connection with the Sept. 11 attacks.]

The 9/11 commission draft summarized the response of the military, the Federal Aviation Administration and other agencies with this passage:

"On the morning of 9/11, the existing protocol was unsuited in every respect for what was about to happen. What ensued was a hurried attempt to create an improvised defense by officials who had never encountered or trained against the situation they faced."

The report, they said, suggests - though it does not say explicitly - that a more organized response by the North American Aerospace Defense Command, or Norad, might have allowed fighter pilots to reach one jetliner and shoot it down before it flew into the Pentagon, more than 50 minutes after the first of the hijacked planes crashed into the World Trade Center in New York.

Instead, the report finds, an emergency order from Vice President Dick Cheney authorizing the hijacked planes to be shot down did not reach pilots until the last of the four commandeered jetliners had crashed into a field in western Pennsylvania, after a struggle between terrorists and passengers aboard that plane.

A spokesman for Norad, which is based in Colorado, had no immediate comment on accounts of the report. Norad's commander, Gen. Ralph E. Eberhart, and Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, are to testify before the commission at the Thursday hearing, along with former officials of the F.A.A., which has been harshly criticized by the commission in the past.

Commission officials said that Norad and the F.A.A. believed that elements of the criticism in the draft report were wrong or exaggerated, and that they were pressing for last-minute corrections. The 10-member bipartisan commission, which is in the final weeks of its investigation, has repeatedly tangled with the air-defense command and the aviation agency, and issued subpoenas to both last year in trying to gather documents and testimony.

The commission's public hearings this week - Wednesday on Al Qaeda and the development of the Sept. 11 plot, Thursday on the chronology of that morning and how Norad, the F.A.A. and other agencies responded to the attacks - are the last the panel is scheduled to hold before it delivers a final, all-encompassing report late next month.

Thomas H. Kean, the commission's chairman and a former Republican governor of New Jersey, said in an interview Tuesday that the hearings this week would "close the circle" on the inquiry and alter the public's understanding of exactly what happened on Sept. 11 and of the plotting of Qaeda terrorists in the months before.

While Mr. Kean said he could not disclose in advance what exactly the commission had learned, other panel officials said the hearings this week would depict widespread chaos within the federal government on the day of the attacks, offering extensive new evidence of how the White House, the Pentagon and federal emergency response agencies were slow to react.

Members of the commission, they said, are expected to question witnesses about hesitation among White House aides on the morning of the attacks, why President Bush was allowed to remain in a meeting with Florida schoolchildren for several minutes after it became clear that a terrorist attack was under way and why he was then taken on a perplexing, hopscotch series of flights on Air Force One that created the appearance of chaos among the nation's leaders.

"There was a lot of chaos," Mr. Kean said. "We'll go over what the president did, what the vice president did, what was going on in the PEOC - the whole story." PEOC is the acronym for the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, a White House bunker where Mr. Cheney and senior aides were sheltered in the hours after the attacks.

Mr. Kean said that in a closed meeting on Tuesday, the panel began to debate the report's final recommendations in earnest, including proposals for a sweeping overhaul of the nation's intelligence agencies. He said he remained optimistic that the commission could produce a unanimous report.

Commission officials have made clear in the past that the report will offer blistering criticism of the C.I.A., the F.B.I. and other intelligence and counterterrorism agencies for failures before Sept. 11. Some members have suggested that the commission may want to recommend the creation of domestic intelligence-gathering agencies separate from the F.B.I., similar to Britain's MI-5.

The intelligence overhaul "is probably the most complex and the most difficult" of the issues under consideration by the panel, Mr. Kean said. "But yes, I'm optimistic. Even with 10 very independent-minded people, this is not impossible."

Spanish Judge Orders 9/11 Trial
Reuters

Madrid - A Spanish judge has ordered 15 people suspected of being Al Qaeda members to face trial on charges including mass murder for the Sept. 11 attacks, court documents showed Tuesday.

The judge, Baltasar Garzón, has been investigating Islamist militants since 1996, ordering his first arrests in November 2001 in a bid to smash an alleged Qaeda cell in Spain.

Judicial sources said the trial of the 15 suspects could begin in about a year. Fourteen of them are in jail while one, a Syrian-born Spanish journalist for Al Jazeera, the Arab news network, has been freed on bail for medical reasons.

Judge Garzón has charged and issued international arrest warrants for 16 others suspected of being members the of the network. He has also issued a warrant for Osama bin Laden.

The suspects to face trial include Imad Eddin Barakat Yarkas, alias Abu Dahdah, whom Judge Garzón accuses of taking part in organizing the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and Washington. He has charged Mr. Dahdah with 3,000 murders.

Also to face trial is Taysir Alony, the Al Jazeera reporter, who is best known for interviewing Mr. bin Laden shortly after the attacks.

Mr. Alony is charged with providing money and information to al Qaeda operatives and recruiting fighters for the group.

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Viking
06-17-2004, 07:48 PM
Of course there was going to be confusion. We've planned for decades against ICBM's, intercontinental bombers, fighter squadrons, even an alien invasion, for that matter. Nobody ever considered that a handful of dune apes would fly 747's full of civilians into buildings. It's a whole different enemy. Looks like we have a new contingency to plan for.

lucky wilbury
06-17-2004, 08:09 PM
don't let facts get in the way of consperacy theories now

DLR'sCock
06-19-2004, 12:01 PM
Don't let your ego get in the way of your condescending attitude...

lucky wilbury
06-19-2004, 01:01 PM
oh yeah my ego:rolleyes: you were the one who bought theories hook line and sinker that planes were shot down and there were missles at the wtc and it was all planned out and every other piece of shit on the internet. it's not my fault you were a sucker

DLR'sCock
06-19-2004, 01:43 PM
Wow!!! You really are an asshole, goodie good for you bud!!!!;)


I never said there was a missle at the WTC, I said the footage looked "like" maybe something was shooting out of the plane , yeah I "Saw" something....oooohhhhhhhh nooooooo!!!!!!!....it could be percieved that way...I didn't say either way what it was...


Did, I think that the PA plane was shot down??? Well, it wouldn't surprise me....but I don't know....and it really doesn't matter at this point.....I never said it was definately shot down...



Did I think that the Bush Admin leave the door open on 9-11??? Yeah I did...Am I wrong??? I guess I am....I don't really know what the true truth is, and I never will most likely...., do I care that I am probably wrong abtou that???? No.....but goodie good for you!!!!!! :rolleyes:
What we have here is that somehow everyone fucked up...oops...it happens I guess right? The FAA waited too long to tell Norad about the situatiuon and to recommend sending fighters out...... The order to send fighters up in the air and the length of time for them to get up there was the thing I was most curious about....... I guess that's what happened....




Such a jackass....
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:



Funny thing is that you accuse me of spamming the board when I see 13 threads of yours on the first page alone, and how many of mine???? what 2?? 3???...oh boy!!!! That's 355 threads started by you, and what 33 for me??? Yeah...I haord the articles and then WHAMMO!!!!!!! I Spam away like no tomorrow!!!!!

It's pretty evident that I don't post that many threads anymore....and for quite some time.....but you're never wrong....:rolleyes:


Keep up the better than everyone else attitude. You're a real pro. :smoke2:

lucky wilbury
06-19-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Wow!!! You really are an asshole, goodie good for you bud!!!!;)

as opposed to being a self proclaimed dick like you



Originally posted by DLR'sCock
I never said there was a missle at the WTC, I said the footage looked "like" maybe something was shooting out of the plane , yeah I "Saw" something....oooohhhhhhhh nooooooo!!!!!!!....it could be percieved that way...I didn't say either way what it was...

i wasen't even refering to that i was refering to your thread upon thread that claimed to be the truth about how us air defenses work to which i said were totally wrong. i explained to you what happend and how everything that happend on 9-11 reguarding transponder,radar, military procedure etc etc. yet you claimed everyone who belived me was a sheep. well as it turns out the 9-11 commision validated what i said and shot down your bullshit.

no you said quote: "i saw somthing. it wasen't sun reflecting of the building or the plane. it was something else." that is what you said



Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Did, I think that the PA plane was shot down??? Well, it wouldn't surprise me....but I don't know....and it really doesn't matter at this point.....I never said it was definately shot down...


bullshit! you even posted threads and agreed in threads by ford that the story "doesn't ad up" you osted threads on how people saw other planes in the area etc etc etc




Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Did I think that the Bush Admin leave the door open on 9-11??? Yeah I did...Am I wrong??? I guess I am....I don't really know what the true truth is, and I never will most likely...., do I care that I am probably wrong abtou that???? No.....but goodie good for you!!!!!! :rolleyes:

bush didn't leave the door open. the true truth is that after years of cut backs to the military and inteligence agenices as well as the pc policies on place like the ins screwed everyone over. not to mention offers for obl etc etc were passed on by clinton.


Originally posted by DLR'sCock
What we have here is that somehow everyone fucked up...oops...it happens I guess right? The FAA waited too long to tell Norad about the situatiuon and to recommend sending fighters out...... The order to send fighters up in the air and the length of time for them to get up there was the thing I was most curious about....... I guess that's what happened....

again it is just what i said: on 9-11 no one could find the planes that were highjacked because of issuse with transponders. we didn't have planes on strip alert anymore so it's not like they could be shot down. all air defenses were looking outward rather then inward which is the same thing viking said and which i said many times before to which i replied. why was there such a delay ? again no planes on strip alert. it takes time to fuel and arm a plane let alone find a pilot get them suited up, get them to and into the plane on such a short notice. again which is all what i've said since day one to which the 9-11 commision has now said which is in direct opposition to threads to which you posted from moveon that said planes could have gotten there and shot them down. you called everyone sheep how didn't believe those bullshit articles by people who don't know what they are talking about. now whos right?





Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Such a jackass....
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:



Funny thing is that you accuse me of spamming the board when I see 13 threads of yours on the first page alone, and how many of mine???? what 2?? 3???...oh boy!!!! That's 355 threads started by you, and what 33 for me??? Yeah...I haord the articles and then WHAMMO!!!!!!! I Spam away like no tomorrow!!!!!

actually see theres a difference. 13 threads over the coarse of 5 days(and other threads in other parts of this forum count for my total some were started by request by others) some of which have been bumped up by others because they are relivent. you have posted 13 threads in a matter of minutes with articles that are up to 3 weeks old on topics that have already be covered and done with yet you post them anyway even though you reponded to some of the same articles! most of your threads just then get ignored since they were already covered and they sink to the bottom with 1 or 2 views


Originally posted by DLR'sCock
It's pretty evident that I don't post that many threads anymore....and for quite some time.....but you're never wrong....:rolleyes:


Keep up the better than everyone else attitude. You're a real pro. :smoke2:

your right i am never wrong. everything i have said that will happen has happend. i don't go saying bullshit that is unsupported by facts or reality. your the one who has taken an attitude with everyone on the board. if no one believes your shit their sheep. everyone a sheep to you. yet where the facts have supported everyone else and the truth has come out the only sheep here is you and your friends at moveon have lead you right off a cliff by getting you to belive every myth and piece of bullshit about bush and 9-11 out there. i'm still waiting for the time in the war where we are going to "slaughter" to use your words 500,000 iraqis. oh wait? it hasen't happend and never will happen but then again i'm just a sheep what do i know right? :rolleyes: