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Jagermeister
03-13-2012, 02:17 PM
http://health.yahoo.net/experts/dayinhealth/can-lsd-cure-alcoholism

In a truly mind-bending acid flashback, a new study reports that LSD could help alcoholics kick their addiction. Based on a new analysis of six randomized controlled trials from the 1960s and 70s, and published in the Journal of Psychopharmacology, researchers from Norwegian University of Science and Technology and Harvard Univeristy found that a single dose of the hallucinogen “had a significant beneficial effect on alcohol misuse” for up to 12 months.

Dropping acid on a one-time basis also “compares favorably” with the effectiveness of such daily treatments for alcoholism as the FDA-approved addiction-fighting drugs naltrexone and acamporosate, the researchers report. Overall, 59 percent of the 536 study participants treated with a single dose of the psychedelic drug showed improvement in their alcohol habits, compared to 38 percent of those who didn’t take LSD.

Here’s a closer look at this startling study.

Read about the most addictive drugs on the market.

Why would a hallucinogenic drug help with a drinking problem?
The researchers point out that, “LSD is well-known for inducing spectacular and profound effects on the mind,” and “can help prevent a relapse of alcohol abuse…by eliciting insights into behavioral problems and generating motivation to build a meaningful and sober lifestyle.”

The theory is that dropping acid is like speeding up psychotherapy, so alcohol abusers achieve similar results to years of psychotherapy in a single LSD trip, helping them break past habits and obstacles that have kept them from kicking their addiction.

Scientists who conducted one of the 1970s studies included in the analysis also noted that, “It was not unusual for patients following the LSD experience to become much more self-accepting, to show greater openness and accessibility, and to adopt a more positive, optimistic view of their capabilities to face future problems.”

Learn when it may be time to turn to a psychologist.

How scientific were the studies supporting LSD as a therapy for alcohol abuse?
While treating problem drinkers with a mind-altering drug may sound counterintuitive or even crazy, all the studies analyzed were randomized clinical trials (the gold standard of scientific research), in which one group of participants received a single dose of LSD ranging from 210 mcg to 800 mcg, and another group didn’t get LSD.

Almost all of the participants were men who had been admitted to substance abuse centers for alcoholism. Some of those who received LSD were put in quiet rooms with flowers, music, and scenic views to promote a "good trip," while others were safely strapped to their beds so they didn’t hurt themselves while in the throes of their mind-bending visions.

Afterwards, all participants were monitored with urine tests or other methods to see if they remained abstinent or made progress in overcoming their dependency. The analysis found that LSD had a positive effect on the alcohol habits of people for up to six months after treatment, but the benefits disappeared after one year. The LSD could have other health benefits: those tested were also found to have reduced anxiety and less pain.

Isn’t giving alcoholics LSD just replacing one dependency with another?
"Psychedelics are not known to be toxic to the body or dependence-producing,” says study author Pal-Orjan Johansen, who theorizes that while booze and drugs like heroin or cocaine are typically abused to elevate mood and escape problems, LSD seems to help people get insights into the issues in their lives and may aid in finding healthier ways to cope.

However, since the studies that were analyzed only tracked participants over the short term, it’s unknown if they experienced any long-term psychological harm from dropping acid, such as recurrent flashbacks.

What about bad trips and other side effects?
Taking LSD can trigger nightmarish experiences known as “bad trips,” marked by anything from acute anxiety to sheer terror. The analysis reported that eight patients showed adverse effects, ranging from “bizarre behavior” to agitation. One patient had a grand mal seizure, but the researchers note that this patient was in the throes of alcohol withdrawal and had a history of seizures.

One of the studies found that some participants experienced nausea, vomiting, and moderate anxiety that was improved by social support and a more soothing environment during the LSD experience. The low rate of adverse events and high rate of short-term improvement has led the researchers to conclude that LSD treatment for alcoholism could be a valuable but overlooked approach that merits further study.

What’s the bottom line on LSD and alcohol abuse?
The researchers strongly caution against trying the illegal psychedelic at home and emphasize that LSD may not be the answer for every alcoholic. However, they also point to the serious toll that alcohol abuse takes as evidence of the urgent need for better treatments.

Four percent of all deaths and five percent of disabilities are directly attributable to alcohol abuse, and many addicts don’t respond to current treatments. That’s why, say the researchers, a flashback to an approach that was explored in medical experiments and alcohol treatment programs during the hippie era might just make LSD and other psychedelics a breakthrough for those who find it challenging to abstain from alcohol.

I would never take that shit again but it sure was fun to take when I was young.

Mr Walker
03-13-2012, 02:20 PM
Here's an idea for treating alcoholism... grow up and put the fucking bottle down.

kwame k
03-13-2012, 02:27 PM
Fuck that.......'turn on, tune in and drop out', man:hippie:

fourthcoming
03-13-2012, 02:30 PM
I guess Timmy Leary had no problems with the sauce.....

Jagermeister
03-13-2012, 02:32 PM
As far as I can tell outside of not being able to spell a damn thing I had no ill effects form it. :biggrin:

kwame k
03-13-2012, 02:35 PM
In all seriousness.......current treatments are an abject failure.

AA....is a fucking useless cult that has a 97% failure rate. Antabuse and other forms of treatment don't work.

Dropping acid isn't addictive and if it helps to take a 'Journey to the Center of the Mind' to get down to the real issues of abuse, then why not.

Remember LSD was banned not because it wasn't an effective treatment but because middle class white kids were doing it and becoming filthy :hippie:

FORD
03-13-2012, 02:39 PM
The worst thing about acid is that is amplifies anything you are already feeling, good or bad. So putting somebody going through physical withdrawals from alcohol (or other drugs) on acid is probably not a good idea.

I could see the potential use of it in a controlled environment when the "patient" is otherwise in a decent mental and physical state, but there's also an obvious potential for abuse there if it's used by doctors/shrinks/etc. with less than honorable intentions. Let's not forget the CIA has used acid for mind control (MK Ultra) and has caused a few "suicides" by painting people's steering wheels with LSD, which can absorb through the skin easily, and other assorted dirty tricks.

So put me down as a "maybe" for this one. Might be easier if the drunks just switched to weed.

Jagermeister
03-13-2012, 02:42 PM
The worst thing about acid is that is amplifies anything you are already feeling, good or bad. So putting somebody going through physical withdrawals from alcohol (or other drugs) on acid is probably not a good idea.

I could see the potential use of it in a controlled environment when the "patient" is otherwise in a decent mental and physical state, but there's also an obvious potential for abuse there if it's used by doctors/shrinks/etc. with less than honorable intentions. Let's not forget the CIA has used acid for mind control (MK Ultra) and has caused a few "suicides" by painting people's steering wheels with LSD, which can absorb through the skin easily, and other assorted dirty tricks.

So put me down as a "maybe" for this one. Might be easier if the drunks just switched to weed.

That reminds me of an old Richard Prior bit. Cocaine intensifies your personality. Yeah but what of you're an asshole.

Angel
03-13-2012, 02:43 PM
Hmmm... maybe I don't drink because of all the acid I dropped when I was younger. And Walker, in severe cases putting down the bottle can be deadly. Alcohol withdrawal shoukd be done in a hospital setting...I'm off to find a hit for my alcie roommate now :lmao:

fourthcoming
03-13-2012, 02:48 PM
Alcoholism is a damn shame.....I'm glad for all the partying I did a million years ago when I was a kid that the booze didnt grab me and not let go. The acid was fun, not gonna lie....but once you get to a certain age and your not some snot nosed teenager with no reponsibilities and no major cares in the world, I wonder if expanding your mind would just lead to a bad hit. I'm thinking if I dropped now....I wouldn't stop thinking about all the bills I have to pay and I would launch into a bad trip...lol Booze sucks though.....too many cool, genuinely good hearted people I know or used to know have completely fallen apart. I used to have a guitar player in my band who was such a good person and harmonized with so damn well....had such a good vibe with but he was his own worst enemy cuz of the sauce. It's a fine line having sympathy for someone and wanting to kick them in the ass and telling them to snap out of it and grow up....guess it's not that easy. I'm thankful that for all the shit I did to my body back in the day that cigarettes is the only vice that still remains. It's a friggin bitch to quit but I guess it could be worse. I never understood how people say Alcoholism runs in families but there definitely seems to be some correlation. Almost every friend I had that ended up a booze hound all had fathers or mothers who were alcoholics. The one thing I can't stand is when Junkies walk around telling everyone they have a disease.....Diabetes is a disease, Cancer is a disease......being a junkie because you were dumb enough to shoot heroin is not a disease.

kwame k
03-13-2012, 02:54 PM
The worst thing about acid is that is amplifies anything you are already feeling, good or bad. So putting somebody going through physical withdrawals from alcohol (or other drugs) on acid is probably not a good idea.

I could see the potential use of it in a controlled environment when the "patient" is otherwise in a decent mental and physical state, but there's also an obvious potential for abuse there if it's used by doctors/shrinks/etc. with less than honorable intentions. Let's not forget the CIA has used acid for mind control (MK Ultra) and has caused a few "suicides" by painting people's steering wheels with LSD, which can absorb through the skin easily, and other assorted dirty tricks.

So put me down as a "maybe" for this one. Might be easier if the drunks just switched to weed.

The article does state that it would be done in a controlled environment and only be used once every six months to a year.

Obviously, with any drug there are dangers but my point is more about the social stigma surrounding LSD.

The CIA used it mostly on unsuspecting victims, without their knowledge......big difference if you have no idea what LSD is or the effects and all of a sudden you're tripping balls then if it's administered in a control setting with the patients knowledge.

:biggrin:

http://youtu.be/bbHve0Ei3w0

http://youtu.be/n-rWnQphPdQ


Why isn't embedding codes working or using the http link on the video radio button?

Angel
03-13-2012, 02:54 PM
I hear ya. Used to drink like a fish, it's amazing I never got addicted, as it runs in both sides of my family. Maybe it's cause I was often on acid when drinking, lmao. Still addicted to tobacco, weed and the internet though.

hambon4lif
03-13-2012, 02:54 PM
That reminds me of an old Richard Prior bit. Cocaine intensifies your personality. Yeah but what of you're an asshole.I know to you they all look alike, but that was actually Bill Cosby who said that.....

Jagermeister
03-13-2012, 02:58 PM
I know to you they all look alike, but that was actually Bill Cosby who said that.....

Could have been. Thanks for logging in to point that out. :baaa:

hambon4lif
03-13-2012, 03:26 PM
Could have been. Thanks for logging in to point that out. :baaa:No need to thank me, Adolf.
I'm here to help.:thumb:

Nitro Express
03-13-2012, 03:39 PM
Trading one trip down the rabbit hole for another. The only thing one is more colorful.

Nitro Express
03-13-2012, 03:46 PM
Yeah but the controlled environment at Stanford University turned into this. Oh well. Maybe society could use another trip on the bus.:biggrin:

Nitro Express
03-13-2012, 03:55 PM
I hear ya. Used to drink like a fish, it's amazing I never got addicted, as it runs in both sides of my family. Maybe it's cause I was often on acid when drinking, lmao. Still addicted to tobacco, weed and the internet though.

I drank a small ocean of alcohol when I was putting on war paint and raiding all the villages in my late teens and early 20's. Then I got that out of my system and really don't drink much anymore.

Mr Walker
03-13-2012, 04:07 PM
And Walker, in severe cases putting down the bottle can be deadly. Alcohol withdrawal shoukd be done in a hospital setting...

Doing in responsibly falls under the 'grow up' step of my treatment.

Nitro Express
03-13-2012, 04:27 PM
You know it's a good time to stop drinking when all the garbage cans are empty and the dog is pregnant.

fourthcoming
03-13-2012, 04:32 PM
Doing in responsibly falls under the 'grow up' step of my treatment.

I hear what your saying with the "grow up" statement. I just witnessed it in front of my eyes no more than ten minutes ago. I have a driver who just returned to the warehouse and asked me if he could split a little early because his wife only allows him to drink 2 tall boys a night and if he beats her home he can drink two before she gets home and two more after she arrives. This dude is 55 years old.....I told him....knock yourself out. What I really wanted to tell him was....if rushing home to drink two beers is more important than making the money to buy the beers, then be my guest. I used to rush home to drink beers, watch porn or intercept my report card in the mail..... when I was 13 years old. I'll say this though, I do miss blazing up sometimes.

hambon4lif
03-13-2012, 04:54 PM
If someone is in their home getting shitfaced, that's their right and their business.
If someone's getting so fucked up in a bar that they can't even stand up, knowing they'll try to drive home later, those are the motherfuckers I want to knock out before they get to their car.

Some people think they could just Vince Neil their way through life.....that shit fucking pisses me off!!

Jagermeister
03-13-2012, 05:03 PM
I was tripping on acid one night and I talked my date into doing it with me. Actually several of us did it. Any way I took my Dad's 2 door Chrysler Cordoba out that night. I was feeling pretty good after I dropped of the date and that car was pretty fast so I decided I would see if I could get it to do a your turn at about 40 miles and hour. Damn if I didn't do it. Starsky and Hutch style. It was so fun I did it like 8 times. What a rush. I'm surprised I didn't go to jail that night. It was really late at night and no one was in any danger but myself and for the most part the worst that could have happened would have been that I could have rolled it I guess.

Man that was fun. I can't drive that well anymore. Reflexes aren't fast enough. :(

Seshmeister
03-13-2012, 08:56 PM
I'm middle aged and Scottish so have seen every single flavor of booze behaviour over the years.

I'm really not convinced at all that 'alcoholism' per se even exists. As a drug it's not very addictive. It's 100 times easier to stop drinking for a few days than to stop smoking. If you are at the crazy level of booze drinking then of course you need to cut back but it's not a disease or an addiction, it's a character weakness filling a hole. My attitude is get a fucking grip. I can see how people slip down the slope and I've skidded at the top myself before but I still think it's just a case of getting a grip. We get a skewed view about 'addiction' because we are constantly preached to by fucking actors and TV people who are the last people you should listen to about anything. Needy damaged fuckwits. "I was a desperate alcoholic for 3 months but now I am sober." Why don't you go fuck yourself. There is nothing to learn from these people.

At the margins of extreme behaviour there is a bit of unpleasantness going from lots and lots to zero too sudden but compared to most drugs it's not bad.

Seshmeister
03-13-2012, 09:00 PM
Also as an aside when I took acid 20 years ago I drank like a lunatic. The next day I pretty much vowed never to take it again because I was concerned I had drank a bottle and more of vodka straight and it had tasted like water to me. I was worried that I could accidently kill myself.

I think it's a decent rule and one I plan to pass on to my kids that the biggest danger is mixing your recreational drugs be it even booze and dope.

ELVIS
03-13-2012, 09:01 PM
As if Sesh, the Roth Army alcoholic, is a source of good information...

Put the vodka bottle down for one year and we can talk, Sesh...

Otherwise, shut the hell up...


:biggrin:

Seshmeister
03-13-2012, 09:02 PM
And we all need recreational drugs be it booze, god or pussy.

kwame k
03-13-2012, 09:03 PM
The report says it's the introspection that LSD induces that helps the alcoholic come to terms with their reasons for drinking.

I do agree......as a person who has been known to drink a few too many....I've never had a problem stopping and never had withdrawals symptoms.

ELVIS
03-13-2012, 09:03 PM
How 'bout small amounts of all of the abvove ??

Seshmeister
03-13-2012, 09:04 PM
As if Sesh, the Roth Army alcoholic, is a source of good information...

Put the vodka bottle down for one year and we can talk, Sesh...

Otherwise, shut the hell up...


:biggrin:


I'm the perfect source of information.

I can walk people through how to party to the max without fucking up and without having to replace booze with superstition.

Seshmeister
03-13-2012, 09:08 PM
I do agree......as a person who has been known to drink a few too many....I've never had a problem stopping and never had withdrawals symptoms.

Me too apart from occasional mild ill at easiness due to adrenaline.

Alcoholism if it exists is a personality trait and is not for life or a disease it's just an attitude.

ELVIS
03-13-2012, 09:09 PM
Whatever dude...

The "superstition" will see me through 'till I'm 100 years old or better...

The booze wil end you before 70...

ELVIS
03-13-2012, 09:10 PM
Me too apart from occasional mild ill at easiness due to adrenaline.



That's not adrenaline...

It's the shakes...:biggrin:

Seshmeister
03-13-2012, 09:12 PM
Says who? Churchill drank 5 times as much as me and made 80, plenty of teetotal people die young.

In fact people that don't drink anything live less long than those that do, go look it up.

You've replaced one drug with another - fine whatever.

Nitro Express
03-13-2012, 09:14 PM
And we all need recreational drugs be it booze, god or pussy.
I found all three in the same place one night.

Seshmeister
03-13-2012, 09:20 PM
That's not adrenaline...

It's the shakes...:biggrin:

I've never had proper delirium tremens but I've had a hint of it maybe 3 times in 25 years. It's just a matter of proper chemical management. If you go for a week long party don't go cold turkey ease yourself off with a couple of nights mild drinking.

Controlling your use of booze and maximising the pleasure it can give you without fucking up is not rocket science.

ELVIS
03-13-2012, 09:57 PM
Says who? Churchill drank 5 times as much as me and made 80, plenty of teetotal people die young.

Do you have a graph that can prove your drinking as related to Churchill ??

In fact people that don't drink anything live less long than those that do, go look it up.

That is true, and I have looked it up...

You've replaced one drug with another - fine whatever.

That was true for me at one point, but these days I have a drink now and then, but that's it...



Alcohol is fine in moderation...

Very moderated doses...

Very, even...


:biggrin:

ELVIS
03-13-2012, 10:00 PM
I've never had proper delirium tremens but I've had a hint of it maybe 3 times in 25 years. It's just a matter of proper chemical management. If you go for a week long party don't go cold turkey ease yourself off with a couple of nights mild drinking.

Controlling your use of booze and maximising the pleasure it can give you without fucking up is not rocket science.

I agree...

Been there, done that..

But alcohol makes me tired and run down...

I'm much more productive when I'm totally clean and sober...

Nitro Express
03-13-2012, 10:02 PM
Definition
By Mayo Clinic staff
Alcoholism is a chronic disease in which your body becomes dependent on alcohol. When you have alcoholism, you lose control over your drinking. You may not be able to control when you drink, how much you drink, or how long you drink on each occasion. If you have alcoholism, you continue to drink even though you know it's causing problems with your relationships, health, work or finances.

It's possible to have a problem with alcohol but not have all the symptoms of alcoholism. This is known as "alcohol abuse," which means you drink too much and it causes problems in your life although you aren't completely dependent on alcohol. If you have alcoholism or you abuse alcohol, you may not be able to cut back or quit without help. A number of approaches are available to help you recover from alcoholism, including medications, counseling and self-help groups.



I once was a heavy drinker but not an alcoholic. I've seen really bad alcoholism though. I've seen people break down in tears if they can't get to a drink right after work and I've seen people get the dry drunks and shakes. It's the body physically needing the fix. Not every heavy drinker is an alcoholic there is a difference.

Nitro Express
03-13-2012, 10:11 PM
I drank my heaviest when I was in really good shape. I could run a five minute mile and swim laps for 40 minutes straight. I was 4% body fat and a 180 pounds. My young body could take a lot of abuse. I sure as hell couldn't live on the work hard/party hard schedule I lived on then. I was out to conquer the world, enjoy every indulgence, and explore life. In Dave terms I was eating and smiling. By the time I got settled into a career and married I lost interest in it. I found myself in a whole different world. All I can say is enjoy your youth kids, you only have it once.

Headly1984
03-13-2012, 10:13 PM
What is old is new again apparently ..

Bill W. - one of the founders of A.A. found his 'moment of clarity' to stop drinking after Hallucinogenic therapy - belladonna? (sp?)

What is interesting about the study - hallucinogens do not cure people - they offer clarity or personal revelations about best course of action for the person to be more content with their self - after their experience - the individual still has to alter their behavior by their will - which may be a stronger will once they have 'seen the light' or had an epiphany/moment of clarity

oh well - drugs are bad - no way in hell gov't will get behind a recreational drug as therapy, even if it could work, lol!

Headly1984
03-13-2012, 10:31 PM
... partying with a group of people tripping and drinking, smoking, driving - isn't going to give a person clarity ..

The study doesn't mention abusing/partying w/ hallucinogens, it states use as a singular drug - with intent on a person experiencing the effect of the drug

- as a scientific study, it should imply - controlled or safe environment with no access to car keys or booze or ...

Julius
03-13-2012, 10:34 PM
Also as an aside when I took acid 20 years ago I drank like a lunatic. The next day I pretty much vowed never to take it again because I was concerned I had drank a bottle and more of vodka straight and it had tasted like water to me. I was worried that I could accidently kill myself.

I think it's a decent rule and one I plan to pass on to my kids that the biggest danger is mixing your recreational drugs be it even booze and dope.

I had almost the same experience, for me it was acid and beer. While the other fellow droppers were sticking to orange juice, I was chugging beers at an alarming rate. My friends were amazed and horrified. Strangely enough, no ill effects were felt the next day.

Seshmeister
03-14-2012, 08:05 AM
What is old is new again apparently ..

Bill W. - one of the founders of A.A. found his 'moment of clarity' to stop drinking after Hallucinogenic therapy - belladonna? (sp?)


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Headly1984
03-14-2012, 11:11 PM
12 step programs may be BS

but the motivation to become a better self some times takes an epiphany - if lsd or a hallucinogen can give a person that believes they are addicted and 'helpless' over alcohol a vision of/ or realization they can be a better self - that does not necessitate a 12 step program - it as the study says can reduce recidivism of abuse of alcohol to 60% - which is much better than AA

it may not be a cure, it does seem to lend a sense of wellness to a person who feels sick from abuse of alcohol

Nitro Express
03-15-2012, 04:34 AM
The problem with drinking too much cheap 9% beer is you start to see people shape shifting into reptiles. Oh well. If you are good about convincing people it's actually real you can apparently make a good living doing it.

ELVIS
03-15-2012, 09:14 AM
The problem with drinking too much cheap 9% beer is you start to see people shape shifting into reptiles.

Wouldn't that be considered the good stuff ??

Seshmeister
03-15-2012, 09:19 AM
The problem with drinking too much cheap 9% beer is you start to see people shape shifting into reptiles. Oh well. If you are good about convincing people it's actually real you can apparently make a good living doing it.



Haha times must be hard in the world of bullshit!

That's what the down and outs drink here, vile stuff.

Nitro Express
03-15-2012, 07:33 PM
Wouldn't that be considered the good stuff ??

Tennent's is good to get you drunk cheap. It's the alcoholic bum hooch of the UK. The main customers beg for a few quid in the parking lot so they can go buy some.