Green Fascism: The Growing Threat of Eco-Tyranny

[ELVIS]

The nightmare that awaits if climate change alarmists go unchallenged

Paul Joseph Watson (http://www.infowars.com/green-fascism-the-growing-threat-of-eco-tyranny/)

Tuesday, April 3, 2012

Professor Kari Norgaard’s assertion that skeptics of man-made climate change should be “treated” for some kind of psychological disease because they refuse to be brainwashed by the global warming mantra gives us an opportunity to take a retrospective look at some choice cuts from past statements made by climate alarmists in which they openly advocate fascism under the banner of saving the planet.



- Forum for the Future, an organization funded by monolithic elitist banks and corporations like Royal Dutch Shell and Bank of America as well as the British government, floated the scenario in the video above as one of the proposals for their “Megacities on the move” project. The clip shows every facet of human behavior, from meat consumption, to car use, to career choices, regulated by a dictatorial technocracy. People who resist the state controlling every aspect of their existence will be forced to live in squalid ghettos while the rest of the population will be tightly controlled in high-tech prison cities. As we previously documented, every draconian idea in this scenario has been borrowed from historical dictatorships, but it’s all OK because it’s for the earth!

- Finnish environmentalist guru Pentti Linkola, publicly called for climate change deniers be “re-educated” in eco-gulags and that the vast majority of humans be killed with the rest enslaved and controlled by a green police state, with people forcibly sterilized, cars confiscated and travel restricted to members of the elite.

- Another Finnish environmentalist writer, Martin Kreiggeist, hails Linkola’s call for eco-gulags and oppression as “a solution,” calling for people to “take up the axes” in pursuit of killing off the third world. Kreiggeist wants fellow eco-fascists to “act on” Linkola’s call for mass murder in order to solve overpopulation.

- In 2010, James Lovelock, the creator of the Gaia hypothesis, told the Guardian that “democracy must be put on hold” to combat global warming and that “a few people with authority” should be allowed to run the planet because people were too stupid to be allowed to steer their own destinies.

- This sentiment was echoed by author and environmentalist Keith Farnish, who in his book called for acts of sabotage and environmental terrorism in blowing up dams and demolishing cities in order to return the planet to the agrarian age. Prominent NASA global warming alarmist and Al Gore ally Dr. James Hansen endorsed Farnish’s book.

- Another prominent figure in the climate change debate who exemplifies the violent and death-obsessed belief system of the movement is Dr. Eric R. Pianka, an American biologist based at the University of Texas in Austin. During a speech to the Texas Academy of Science in March 2006, Pianka advocated the need to exterminate 90% of the world’s population through the airborne ebola virus. The reaction from scores of top scientists and professors in attendance was not one of shock or revulsion – they stood and applauded Pianka’s call for mass genocide.

- The current White House science czar John P. Holdren also advocates the most obscenely dictatorial, eco-fascist, and inhumane practices in the name of environmentalism. In his 1977 Ecoscience textbook, Holdren calls for a “planetary regime” to carry out forced abortions and mandatory sterilization procedures, as well as drugging the water supply, in an effort to cull the human surplus.

- The mindset of this gaggle of arrogant, scoffing elitists in their drive to micro-manage the human race, which they regard as a plague on the earth, is best encapsulated by the following quote from ‘Planet Under Pressure’ attendee and Yale University professor Karen Seto. “We certainly don’t want them (humans) strolling about the entire countryside. We want them to save land for nature by living closely [together],” Seto told MSNBC.

- These control freaks even see the very act of breathing itself as a sin against mother earth. A 2007 New York Times editorial seriously floated the idea that humans should be taxed for exhaling carbon dioxide and “using the atmosphere like a municipal dump”.

- In 2010, UK government-backed global warming alarmist group 10:10 produced an infomercial in which children who refused to lower their carbon emissions were slaughtered in an orgy of blood and guts. After a massive backlash, the organization was forced to remove the video from their website and issue an apology. Watch the clip below.



- The bloodlust shared by global warming alarmists is also embraced by infamous serial killer mastermind Charles Manson, who during prison interviews routinely spoke of his belief that around 50 million humans should be slaughtered for the good of the planet. Still behind bars, Manson is now a climate change guru and attracts a wave of devoted followers.

- We occasionally see demented devotees of climate alarmists act out violently to express their beliefs. People like James Jay Lee are now turning such rhetoric into violent action, following in the footsteps of others like Francisco Lotero and 23-year-old Miriam Coletti, who killed themselves, their son, and attempted to kill their own baby as part of a suicide pact to bring attention to global warming

- While demanding the general public lower their living standards to comply with the new green agenda, its proponents are complete hypocrites who live in the lap of luxury. Think Al Gore and his multiple oceanside mansions with heated swimming pools. Gore will still be able to roll around in SUV’s and fly private jets while quaffing the finest fillet steak and belching tons of CO2 as he lecture the rest of humanity about their carbon footprint. Think Prince Charles and his insistence that the proles not be allowed to take baths as he lounges in the luxuriant splendor of royal palaces.

This is by no means an exhaustive list, but it gives you an insight into the kind of eco-tyranny we will be living under if these lunatics are allowed to go unchallenged, which if Kari Norgaard has her way is exactly what will happen – because we’ll have all been lobotomized out of our common sense and re-educated to accept green fascism.


:elvis:

[private parts]

I also think we should recycle and drink our own urine to save water.
:clap:You sir, get 5-stars

[chefcraig]

That second clip was a lot better the first time I saw it, when it was used by Pearl Jam for their tune "Jeremy."

[Jesus Christ]

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. - Revelation 11:18

Do ye think that maketh Dad and Me "green fascists", Gregory?

[jhale667]

Climate-change deniers DO need help, that's for sure.

[ELVIS]

There is no man-made climate change...

That's rediculous...


And FORD, I don't understand your point...

[Jesus Christ]

Gregory, ye claim to have faith in Me, whom ye hath not seen, yet ye ignore the evidence ye hath seen with thine own eyes. The hurricane that did such serious damage to thy home town was a direct result of warmer surface temperatures in the Gulf of Mexico, and the ocean currents which feed it.

I do not understand the thinking of those who think they must deny science to believe in Me. Dad & I created science too, ye know?

[kwame k]

You could just imagine Elvis during the whole.......the Earth is flat, the Earth is round debate.

Any guesses on which side he would of been on;)

[ELVIS]

Gregory, ye claim to have faith in Me, whom ye hath not seen, yet ye ignore the evidence ye hath seen with thine own eyes. The hurricane that did such serious damage to thy home town was a direct result of warmer surface temperatures in the Gulf of Mexico, and the ocean currents which feed it.

I do not understand the thinking of those who think they must deny science to believe in Me. Dad & I created science too, ye know?

There have been killer hurricanes in the gulf since the beginning of time...

The heat is caused by the sun...you know, that big ball in the sky...

[jhale667]

There is no man-made climate change...




"Denial" ISN'T a river in Egypt...

[kwame k]

Given E's amazing track record on Presidents, social issues and science......

I'm not surprised at all that he'd rather see the Earth polluted and it's resources depleted.

[Seshmeister]

There is no man-made climate change...

That's rediculous...



Did you ever make any money from that BP oil spill?

[ELVIS]

Logic ISN'T part of a liberal's mental faculty...

[kwame k]

You and logic are very distant cousins;)

[ELVIS]

Did you ever make any money from that BP oil spill?

No, it was too much trouble than it was worth...

I took their silly classes, though...

[jhale667]

Nice try at Repuke projection, but...



Logic ISN'T part of a conservatard's mental faculty...


Corrected. :baaa:

[ELVIS]

I'm not surprised at all that he'd rather see the Earth polluted and it's resources depleted.

That's silly...

[kwame k]

That's silly...

Yep, isn't happening either, right.......

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/realtodd/smog-air-pollution-city-1.jpg

[ELVIS]

Blast from the past; first hurricane hit Pilgrims in 1635

NEW YORK (AP) — The winds whipped up to 130 mph, snapping pine trees like pick-up sticks and blowing houses into oblivion. A surge of water, 21 feet high at its crest, engulfing victims as they desperately scurried for higher ground.
The merciless storm, pounding the coast for hours with torrential sheets of rain, was like nothing ever seen before. One observer predicted the damage would linger for decades.

This wasn't New Orleans in August 2005. This was New England in August 1635, battered by what was later dubbed "The Great Colonial Hurricane" — the first major storm suffered by the first North American settlers, just 14 years after the initial Thanksgiving celebration in Plymouth Colony.

The Puritans, after landing at Plymouth Rock, endured disease, brutal winters and battles with the natives. But their biggest test roared up the coast from the south, an unprecedented and terrifying tempest that convinced rattled residents the apocalypse was imminent.

And why not? The transplanted Europeans knew almost nothing of hurricanes, an entirely foreign phenomenon. Their fears of approaching death were reinforced when a lunar eclipse followed the natural disaster.

Once the weather cleared and the sun rose again, the few thousand residents of Plymouth and Massachusetts Bay colonies were left to rebuild and recover from a hurricane as powerful as 1938's killer Long Island Express. The 20th century hurricane killed 700 people, including 600 in New England, and left 63,000 homeless.

"The settlers easily could have packed up and gone home," said Nicholas K. Coch, a professor of geology at Queens College and one of the nation's foremost hurricane experts. "It was an extraordinary event, a major hurricane, and nearly knocked out British culture in America."

Last year, Coch used information that he collected from detailed colonial journals to reconstruct the great hurricane. The 371-year-old data was brought to Brian Jarvinen at the National Hurricane Center, where it was interpreted using the SLOSH (Sea, Lake and Overland Surges from Hurricanes) computer model.

The result: The hurricane likely tracked farther west than was thought, passing over uninhabited easternmost Long Island before moving north into New England. Once clear of the colonies, it veered off into the Atlantic.

Previously, researchers had believed the hurricane missed Long Island — which always annoyed Coch.

"We started out doing this as a lark, and it turned out to be a very interesting piece of science," said Coch. "This information can be applied to any hurricane in the north. I think that's neat."

Coch said the pioneers from across the Atlantic likely endured a Category 3 hurricane, moving faster than 30 mph, with maximum winds of 130 mph and a very high storm surge — 21 feet at Buzzards Bay and 14 feet at Providence. Reports at the time said 17 American Indians were drowned, while others scaled trees to find refuge.

The storm was moving about three times as fast as the typical southern hurricane, and arrived in full bluster. Although it struck nearly four centuries ago, very specific details about the first recorded hurricane in North America were provided by the local leaders' writings.

"The documentation was better than any hurricane until the mid-1800s," said Coch. "That's a story in itself."

John Winthrop, head of the Massachusetts Bay group, recalled in his Aug. 16, 1635, entry that the winds were kicking up a full week before the hurricane.

Once it did arrive, the hurricane "blew with such violence, with abundance of rain, that it blew down many hundreds of trees, overthrew some houses, and drove the ships from their anchors," Winthrop wrote. He detailed the deaths of eight American Indians sucked under the rising water while "flying from their wigwams."

William Bradford, the leader of the Plymouth group, offered a similarly florid recounting.

"Such a mighty storm of wind and rain as none living in these parts, either English or Indian, ever saw," he wrote. "It blew down sundry houses and uncovered others ... It blew down many hundred thousands of trees, turning up the stronger by the roots and breaking the higher pine trees off in the middle."

The local crops, along with the forests and many local structures like the Aptucxet trading house on the southwest side of Cape Cod, suffered major damage. Bradford, in his account, predicted signs of the damage would endure into the next century.

So brutal was the storm that 50 years later, Increase Mather wrote simply, "I have not heard of any storm more dismal than the great hurricane which was in August 1635." His father, the Rev. Richard Mather, was aboard one of the ships nearly sunk at sea by the ferocious weather — but he survived, along with about 100 other passengers.

Others were less fortunate.

The Rev. Anthony Thacher, his cousin and their two families were headed by boat on a short swing from Ipswich to Marblehead. The fast-moving storm smashed their craft on the rocks, dooming all aboard except for the preacher and his wife, who somehow survived the storm as 21 others perished.

"Before daylight, it pleased God to send so mighty a storm as the like was never felt in New England since the English came there nor in the memories of any of the Indians," Thacher wrote in a letter home to his brother.

Thacher's Island and Avery's Rock — named for his late cousin Joseph Avery — remain as geographic reminders of the storm and its toll.

Coch said the most interesting news about the hurricane, more than 350 years later, is that storms can often follow the same track. And just a minuscule shift of the storm's movement in the area of North Carolina — "a fraction of a degree" — could send a hurricane up through Providence and right into Boston, the professor said.

"We could have a catastrophic situation with national repercussions," said Coch. "If the track of a future moves 25 miles to the west of the 'Colonial Hurricane,' the dangerous right side could pass right over Boston and Providence. That's why we study old hurricanes in the Northeast."


:elvis:

[Seshmeister]

To know if these storms represent a trend or are affected by anything you need to use science. If you are going to ignore science then it's pointless talking about storms killing some pretty nasty people 500 years ago because how can measure significance.

[ELVIS]

Global warming is natural as is global cooling and it is cyclical...

Carbon Dioxide is not a pollutant...

[kwame k]

:headlights:

[jhale667]

What causes the greenhouse effect, ELBOW?

[kwame k]

Hippies living in greenhouses, obviously;)

[jhale667]

Hippies living in greenhouses, obviously;)

:lmao:

[ELVIS]

What causes the greenhouse effect, ELBOW?

Water vapor, methane, nitrous oxide and carbon dioxide as well as aerosols...

[ELVIS]

New temperature comparisons using ocean-going robots suggest climate change began much earlier than previously thought

TED THORNHILL
UK Daily Mail
April 2, 2012

It’s widely believed that global warming began in the 1970s, but new ocean temperature readings show that the Earth has in fact been warming for far longer.

A study by the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in San Diego traced ocean warming to the late 19th century, which implies, say researchers, that the Earth’s climate as a whole has been heating up since then.

The report is the first global comparison of temperature between the historic voyage of HMS Challenger between 1872 and 1876 and modern data obtained by ocean-probing robots now continuously reporting temperatures via the global Argo program.


Full article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2123968/Global-warming-started-100-years-ago-New-ocean-temperature-comparisons-suggest-climate-change-began-earlier-previously-thought.html)


:elvis:

[Seshmeister]

Global warming is natural as is global cooling and it is cyclical...



Cyanide is 'natural'.

[jhale667]

Logic ISN'T part of a liberal's mental faculty...

Still laughing about this bullshit statement... Yeah, liberals are the ones denying science, reason, empirical data, REALITY...oh yeah, and we don't want our kids going to college, getting "indoctrinated" or learning how to do any of that "critical thinking" hooey... :hee:

[Jesus Christ]

There have been killer hurricanes in the gulf since the beginning of time...

The heat is caused by the sun...you know, that big ball in the sky...

Know it? I created it, ye dumbass! :jesuslol:

[Nickdfresh]

There is no man-made climate change...

That's rediculous...


And FORD, I don't understand your point...

The scientist, Elbow, has spoken. So sayeth he amen...

[Nickdfresh]

New temperature comparisons using ocean-going robots suggest climate change began much earlier than previously thought

TED THORNHILL
UK Daily Mail
April 2, 2012

It’s widely believed that global warming began in the 1970s, but new ocean temperature readings show that the Earth has in fact been warming for far longer.

A study by the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in San Diego traced ocean warming to the late 19th century, which implies, say researchers, that the Earth’s climate as a whole has been heating up since then.

The report is the first global comparison of temperature between the historic voyage of HMS Challenger between 1872 and 1876 and modern data obtained by ocean-probing robots now continuously reporting temperatures via the global Argo program.


Full article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2123968/Global-warming-started-100-years-ago-New-ocean-temperature-comparisons-suggest-climate-change-began-earlier-previously-thought.html)


:elvis:

Um, where do you get this complete shit to spout...

Global Warming almost directly corresponds with dawning of civilization and the rise of agriculture, and is intensified by the Industrial Revolution....

[Seshmeister]

Um, where do you get this complete shit to spout...



The Daily Mail - which is also the punchline to many a joke in the UK... :)

[Nickdfresh]

Blast from the past; first hurricane hit Pilgrims in 1635

NEW YORK (AP) — The winds whipped up to 130 mph, snapping pine trees like pick-up sticks and blowing houses into oblivion. A surge of water, 21 feet high at its crest, engulfing victims as they desperately scurried for higher ground.
The merciless storm, pounding the coast for hours with torrential sheets of rain, was like nothing ever seen before. One observer predicted the damage would linger for decades.

This wasn't New Orleans in August 2005. This was New England in August 1635, battered by what was later dubbed "The Great Colonial Hurricane" — the first major storm suffered by the first North American settlers, just 14 years after the initial Thanksgiving celebration in Plymouth Colony.....

:elvis:

Well, if we're using anecdotal "evidence," then you'll have to admit that Global Warming is real because Buffalo, NY received just over one-third it's usual snowfall total this last winter and had three 80F days in March...

[DLR Bridge]

...And FORD, I don't understand your point...

Wait a minute...FORD is Jesus Christ?! Damn, this place should come with a handbook or something.

[Seshmeister]

If you read your bible close enough it's kind of obvious...

[jhale667]

Well, if we're using anecdotal "evidence," then you'll have to admit that Global Warming is real because Buffalo, NY received just over one-third it's usual snowfall total this last winter and had three 80F days in March...

Or how about the fact that plant and animal species are migrating farther north than they've ever been able to in US history because (now) they can...

[Jesus Christ]

Wait a minute...FORD is Jesus Christ?! Damn, this place should come with a handbook or something.

The Messiah shall neither confirm nor deny such rumours :jesuslol:

[ELVIS]

Actually, Jesus Christ is Satan...


:elvis:

[ELVIS]

Or how about the fact that plant and animal species are migrating farther north than they've ever been able to in US history because (now) they can...

I never denied that it may be getting very slightly warmer...

It's the carbon dioxide propaganda and carbon footprint bullshit that is going to have us all paying a fucking tax to some fucking world bank that I don't agree with...

You're being played by the globalists and their bankers who want to control the population of the world...

[PETE'S BROTHER]

"Denial" ISN'T a river in Egypt...

but! :) it is a street in new egypt!



Directions to New Egypt Speedway:



From NJ Turnpike:
Exit 7A to 195 East (Shore Points) to Exit 16A (Route 537 West). Stay on 537W for 5 miles. Left on Route 539 (South). Track is 3 miles down Denial Street on left.


http://www.newegyptspeedway.net/directions.htm


:lmao:

[Jesus Christ]

Actually, Jesus Christ is Satan...


:elvis:

That cannot be, Gregory. For if Satan cast out Satan, then how would his kingdom stand?

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Wait a minute...FORD is Jesus Christ?! Damn, this place should come with a handbook or something.

:gossip: he has an alter-ego alias as well

[jhale667]

I never denied that it may be getting very slightly warmer...

It's the carbon dioxide propaganda and carbon footprint bullshit that is going to have us all paying a fucking tax to some fucking world bank that I don't agree with...

You're being played by the globalists and their bankers who want to control the population of the world...

Meh. Keep denying, you'll be underwater before Cali will... :D

[ELVIS]

:elvis:

[ELVIS]

That cannot be, Gregory. For if Satan cast out Satan, then how would his kingdom stand?

Satan doesn't have a kingdom...

[Jesus Christ]

See here's the deal, My children.....

Dad and I put millions of trees and plants on Earth to take in the carbon dioxide and recycle it back into oxygen. But when ye pollute more, and part of that pollution involves clearcutting forests and paving over meadows, then you have less creation of oxygen along with the increased carbon dioxide (and other gases) coming from thy man made sources.

Gregory posted an article that states that Earth has been warming since the mid 19th century, but it fails to mention the obvious - this coincides with the timing of what you mortals called "the Industrial Revolution, the westward migration of white Americans, railroads, etc. All of which add to the pollution and resulted in the oxygen factories Dad & I gave you being eliminated. And this behavior hath only escalated since then.

[Jesus Christ]

Satan doesn't have a kingdom...

This world is his kingdom, Gregory. As well as the place beneath where he dwells.

[ELVIS]

Bullshit FOR... I mean jesus...

[ELVIS]

This world is his kingdom

Actually, Satan's Kingdom is in New Hartford, Connecticut...

http://steveb.biz/2008/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/satans-kingdom-400x265.jpg

[Jesus Christ]

Do ye not remember when Satan tempted Me in the Wilderness? He offered Me all the kingdoms of this world, if I would worship him. If those kingdoms were not his, he would not have had them to offer.

[Jesus Christ]

Actually, Satan's Kingdom is in New Hartford, Connecticut...

http://steveb.biz/2008/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/satans-kingdom-400x265.jpg

Verily, is that not the original home of the ones FORD calleth "The BCE"? :jesuslol:

[Nitro Express]

No question there is climate change but then the earth has been changing long before the industrial age happened. We had ice ages, mini ice ages, we warned up and maybe we will cool down again. I say always question the sold reality. Why are they so desperate to shove something down your throat and ask who benefits? I'm really not much of an environmentalist or an alarmist. Human beings will always be around most likely. They have survived in the arctic, they have survived in the desert, human beings have survived some horrid conditions. The world is full of ruins of once great civilizations. Some we know little about. My advice is do some traveling on your own and think for yourself. There is always a huxter trying to sell the end of the world to benefit their agenda. It's 2012, It's global warming, Jesus is coming. One of these days a super volcano will blow or a big ass asteroid will hit us an that will be that.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Do ye not remember when Satan tempted Me in the Wilderness? He offered Me all the kingdoms of this world, if I would worship him. If those kingdoms were not his, he would not have had them to offer.

he was lying. he invented lying.

[WACF]

No question there is climate change but then the earth has been changing long before the industrial age happened. We had ice ages, mini ice ages, we warned up and maybe we will cool down again. I say always question the sold reality. Why are they so desperate to shove something down your throat and ask who benefits? I'm really not much of an environmentalist or an alarmist. Human beings will always be around most likely. They have survived in the arctic, they have survived in the desert, human beings have survived some horrid conditions. The world is full of ruins of once great civilizations. Some we know little about. My advice is do some traveling on your own and think for yourself. There is always a huxter trying to sell the end of the world to benefit their agenda. It's 2012, It's global warming, Jesus is coming. One of these days a super volcano will blow or a big ass asteroid will hit us an that will be that.

We are still coming out of the last ice age.

Earth also at one time had no polar ice caps.

Do we have an impact on our world...yes...is it always changing yes...are people like Al Gore or in Canada David Suzuki making loads of cash off scaring people...yes...

[kwame k]

It still puzzles me that even if climate change is naturally occurring right now it doesn't change the fact that we are adding to it and polluting/depleting our natural resources.

How can anyone argue that making less pollution is a bad thing:headlights:

[ELVIS]

How can anyone argue that making less pollution is a bad thing:headlights:

We are making less, far less than say 30 to 40 years ago in this country...

Our cars are clean...

Our coal plants are clean...

Our hydrofluorocarbon emmissions are miniscule...

Now compare that to China or other newly industrial parts of the world where pollution goes almost completely unregulated...

Forcing this green bullshit technology on americans does nothing but take money out of their pockets...


:elvis:

[kwame k]

Granted the Carbon Credit thingy is fucking just plain stupid.......you can sell your credits to a polluting company so they're in compliance but they're still allowed to pollute at the same levels:headlights:

Forcing us to go green will do more for our economy, in the long run, then allowing the status quo. Even the countries you mentioned are outpacing us in green technologies.

Countries are recognizing that reliance on oil and gas is a self-defeating prospect......it's not in the best interests of any country to rely so heavily on a product, in a region, that is historical unstable. It drives prices up and it's stability is at the whim of those countries.

Being able to produce your energy has always been a better alternative to being overdependent on imports. You create more jobs, more tax revenue, stabilize your infrastructure, and strengthen your national defense by relying on your own resources.

The people bitching the most about this isn't the average Joe....it's the companies making billions off of a product that pollutes, has wild price fluctuations, is limited and puts money in the hands of terrorists.

No one really has given me a good reason to not get off the teat of oil.

[private parts]

Well, if we're using anecdotal "evidence," then you'll have to admit that Global Warming is real because Buffalo, NY received just over one-third it's usual snowfall total this last winter and had three 80F days in March...

Ya it hasn't been that warm in March since like the 1880's. Those damn polluting carbon spewing pioneers and their horse drawn wagons.

[kwame k]

We are making less, far less than say 30 to 40 years ago in this country...

Our cars are clean...

Our coal plants are clean...

Our hydrofluorocarbon emmissions are miniscule...

Now compare that to China or other newly industrial parts of the world where pollution goes almost completely unregulated...

Forcing this green bullshit technology on americans does nothing but take money out of their pockets...


:elvis:

Sure we're cleaner than 30 or 40 years ago but that's not saying a lot. When you factor in the wind currents and ocean currents, places that are relatively low in producing pollution are feeling the effects of countries thousands of miles away.

Think about it like this........although the levels were small remember that when Japan had it's nuclear melt-down radiation did reach the US. The same is happening in other countries, too. Acid rain was a big problem in Windsor, Ontario.....not because they were producing acid rain but because the wind direction from Detroit was sending it's pollution towards them.

Burning coal is getting cleaner but look at the environmental devastation that is caused by mining it.

[ELVIS]

Forcing us to go green will do more for our economy, in the long run, then allowing the status quo.

Forcing americans to do anything is wrong...

I don't see how you can just say that so easily...

[kwame k]

Ah....pollution bad, hurt me!

Is that simple enough;)

[kwame k]

Forcing americans to do anything is wrong...

I don't see how you can just say that so easily...

You're forcing companies to not pollute.....what freedom is that taking away from you?

They found out that lead in paint was killing people or causing children to become mentally retarded......they regulated that. What freedom did you lose?

[jhale667]

Forcing americans to do anything is wrong...

I don't see how you can just say that so easily...


Some behaviors aren't changed voluntarily, and there needs to be a mandate. A certain segment of Americans had to be forced to end segregation, or respect women's voting rights, for example. Clearly in both cases that was the right thing to do. So the "can't force them to do anything" - especially when it's a definite positive -argument falls flat.


Plus suggesting we continue to allow countries like China to kick our ass in green technology is just stupid.

[Seshmeister]

We are making less, far less than say 30 to 40 years ago in this country...

Our cars are clean...

Our coal plants are clean...

Our hydrofluorocarbon emmissions are miniscule...

Now compare that to China or other newly industrial parts of the world where pollution goes almost completely unregulated...

Forcing this green bullshit technology on americans does nothing but take money out of their pockets...


:elvis:

That's nonsense.

US coal plants are some of the dirtiest inefficient power plants in the world, that's one of the main reasons that the US is much worse than even Europe for emissions.

China and the US create around the same amount of CO2 emissions about a quarter each of the whole worlds but there are 7 times as many Chinese so that is a bit more forgiveable...

[Nickdfresh]

We are making less, far less than say 30 to 40 years ago in this country...

Our cars are clean...

Our coal plants are clean...

Our hydrofluorocarbon emmissions are miniscule...

Now compare that to China or other newly industrial parts of the world where pollution goes almost completely unregulated...

Forcing this green bullshit technology on americans does nothing but take money out of their pockets...


:elvis:

The coal plants are only cleaner because of regulations driven by Global Warming...

And China, while a major polluter, has a burgeoning environmental movement beginning to have a real impact on their gov't. But someone has to lead by example...

[Nickdfresh]

Ya it hasn't been that warm in March since like the 1880's. Those damn polluting carbon spewing pioneers and their horse drawn wagons.

Um, aside from the fact you missed my point entirely, they had factories and trains spewing unregulated plumes of hydrocarbons into the air back then--commonly known as the Industrial Revolution. And of course, as I already mentioned, even agriculture and herding have contributed to Climate Change...

[Seshmeister]

The coal plants are only cleaner because of regulations driven by Global Warming...


5 or 10 years ago they alone were 40% of the whole of the US emissions, I think that may be getting a little better with legislation.

[Nickdfresh]

5 or 10 years ago they alone were 40% of the whole of the US emissions, I think that may be getting a little better with legislation.

I believe plants have installed newer filtration technologies. There's also a technology that allows coal plants to be nearly as clean as natural gas ones, but it is so prohibitively expensive you'll never see another coal plant built in the U.S. due to new, stringent emissions demands...

[kwame k]

5 or 10 years ago they alone were 40% of the whole of the US emissions, I think that may be getting a little better with legislation.

The bigger issue is the waste we have in our power grid! 58% waste?

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/realtodd/usenergyuse.jpg

This flow chart of the estimated US energy use in 2009, assembled by the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL), paints a pretty sobering picture of our energy situation. To begin with, it shows that more than half (58%) of the total energy produced in the US is wasted due to inefficiencies, such as waste heat from power plants, vehicles, and light bulbs. In other words, the US has an energy efficiency of 42%. And, despite the numerous reports of progress in solar, wind, and geothermal energy, those three energy sources combined provide just 1.2% of our total energy production. The vast majority of our energy still comes from petroleum (37%), natural gas (25%), and coal (21%). Link (http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-04-energy_1.html)

[Nitro Express]

We are still coming out of the last ice age.

Earth also at one time had no polar ice caps.

Do we have an impact on our world...yes...is it always changing yes...are people like Al Gore or in Canada David Suzuki making loads of cash off scaring people...yes...

Pretty much. I remember hearing all this in the 1970's. All the electric car talk and solar panel talk. We have had large advancements in computing and electronic gizmos but amazingly transportation has changed very little during my lifetime. They can squeeze more gas mileage out of an internal combustion engine using a computer but really if you think about it, cars haven't changed much and they used electric cars in big cities 100 years ago.

We are still putting power lines on big wood poles like we have done the last 100+ years. If anything, we are just making energy more expensive. Probably the biggest backers of environmentalism is the energy companies themselves. It makes the price for their product go up by making it scarcer.

[Nitro Express]

What's interesting is the Department of Energy was going to build a prototype clean coal plant at their National Laboratory in Idaho. A lot of lawsuits ended the project. It's like someone doesn't want clean coal. The US is the Saudi Arabia of coal. If they can burn it clean that bites into someone's pocket. The great liberator would be cheap electricity. That would raise the standard of living worldwide. It's the holy grail but it does away with the current system of economic power. Cap and Trade was nothing more than a scam. It would kill the standard of living for everyone except the few who benefit from the taxes.

In my opinion if it doesn't benefit everyone it's not a good plan.

[kwame k]

Our government right now is giving how many billions away in subsides to oil, natural gas and coal companies?

While most of them pay little to no taxes and we're double taxed on the stuff. Subsides [taxpayer's money] and various federal, state and local taxes add up to being taxed twice. One is a tax and the other is a give away with money they've collected from us......they'd piss it away somewhere else but that's not my point:)

We're giving away 12 billion for green technologies and next to nothing is getting done. A few months ago it was revealed how much money they're scamming off of those programs....it seems to me by just making our power grid and our distribution of energy more efficient we'd solve over 50% of our problem.

If the companies that produce and distribute our energy refuse to become efficient.......who in their right mind doesn't think it's time for We The People, our government, to step in? Who in their right mind is against a new and more efficient power grid?

Answer: Republicans:biggrin:

[ELVIS]

They're stealing money and giving it to fake green technology companys...

I'm thiking about getting a P.O. box coming up with a clever green sounding name and see if I can get some of that money....


:elvis:

[kwame k]

Shit....if you want to get on that gravy train it's easy......they'll give you money to run a building company if you go into the whole energy upgrade home improvement market!

[Nitro Express]

They're stealing money and giving it to fake green technology companys...

I'm thiking about getting a P.O. box coming up with a clever green sounding name and see if I can get some of that money....


:elvis:

They have looted the Department of Energy budget. Exactly. Lot's of lay offs at a lab that actually develops cutting edge energy technology. They can't do that for real because Obama is diverting the money, putting it into front companies and stealing it. Name one thing useful this man has done other than spend and steal money. They call it the green movement because it's all about laundering that green money through front green companies.

A friend of mine has a box of Obama golf balls. He says it feels good to swing at them.

[ashstralia]

we're about to get saddled with a tax no-one here wants... please bear with me and skim over this email i receieved.




Nolan's Transport
For those of you who do not know, the Gatton District is located some 100k west of Brisbane, Nolan's Transport is one of the biggest employers in the area, and only last year was given the "Business of the Year" award.
Now read on!
Julia Gillard's Labor Party and the Greens are going to take us all down with this Carbon Tax. We, as Australians, should protest and protest until we cannot protest any more! This is a real scenario, brought on by Gillard.



Nolan's Transport, which operates out of Gatton, has been earmarked as one of Gillard's 500. This Company has been going for 102 years, is still run by the family, operates 126 transports and employs 265 people. Gillard has targeted this Company as one of her 500 'guests' to pay carbon tax. Just imagine. Last year, this Company was told it put out 144,700 tonnes of carbon gas. So, 144,700 tonnes x $23 = $3,328,100.00. Yes, that is correct - 3.3 million dollars!!!


Where is Australia headed if companies like this one, (and there are several much bigger than Nolan's - LinFox comes to mind) are put out of business? Our Prime Minister said there would be no extra charges on transport or fuel. What do you call 3.3 million dollars on just one operator?



Any transport Company producing less than 25,000 tonnes of carbon tax pays nothing. If Nolan's goes broke or shuts down operations and another 126 replacement transports are put on the road by smaller Companies under the 25,000 tonne limit to take up the slack, then exactly the same amount of carbon gas will be produced, illustrating the futility of the whole exercise.


Mr. Nolan said in an interview that if he put what the Company was worth into a bank account, he would make ten times as much in interest as he makes now, throwing 265 people out of work. We must, as citizens on Australia and tax payers - not to mention consumers of goods - somehow force Gillard and her Green and ``Independent`` cronies to an election on the issue of Carbon Tax before July this year to keep this Nation going. If we don't, this country will be ruined!


This is just one scenario. What about the other 499 companies that will also be hit by this ridiculous tax?



Additionally, we must not forget the other smaller companies which will fail because they depend on these larger companies which are doomed to either fold or cut back on their work-force.



COME ON AUSTRALIA, THIS IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. BRING THIS GOVERNMENT TO THE POLLS, TO SAVE OUR COUNTRY FROM GOING INTO POVERTY!


IF THE TAX IS IMPLEMENTED IT WILL TAKE MANY YEARS TO RECOVER. DO YOUR PATRIOTIC DUTY FOR YOUR FELLOW AUSTRALIANS - THINGS ARE BAD ENOUGH NOW!


ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

Please pass on to all in your address book.



A very concerned Aussie.

[Seshmeister]

It's kind of funny to me that we have one poster who lives in a swamp state whose main city was fucked up by weather just a few years ago and another who lives in a place beset with skin cancers and super heat and they are the people who are against trying to do something about climate change.

There was a huge study by the best science and economics people here a couple of years ago and they came back with the figure of 2% of GDP to sort this thing out. Since then we've bailed out the banks a fuck of a lot more than that. As I've posted before I have fire insurance on my house and I'm pretty sure that I will never ever have to claim on it.

I guess we'll just need to sit back and see whether this fucks things up or not because of human nature being too short term to deal with a problem like this.

[kwame k]

Humans have a hard time thinking in those terms.....throw in millions of dollars of anti-climate change propaganda and you get to where we are now.

This has strayed so far away from a simple problem, when you break it down......pollution and depleting our natural resources spells disaster.

One look to history shows what happens to civilizations that deplete their natural resources!

Here's a nice article about doom and gloom...........

Next Great Depression? MIT researchers predict ‘global economic collapse’ by 2030


A new study from researchers at Jay W. Forrester's institute at MIT says that the world could suffer from "global economic collapse" and "precipitous population decline" if people continue to consume the world's resources at the current pace.

Smithsonian Magazine writes that Australian physicist Graham Turner says "the world is on track for disaster" and that current evidence coincides with a famous, and in some quarters, infamous, academic report from 1972 entitled, "The Limits to Growth."

Produced for a group called The Club of Rome, the study's researchers created a computing model to forecast different scenarios based on the current models of population growth and global resource consumption. The study also took into account different levels of agricultural productivity, birth control and environmental protection efforts. Twelve million copies of the report were produced and distributed in 37 different languages.

Most of the computer scenarios found population and economic growth continuing at a steady rate until about 2030. But without "drastic measures for environmental protection," the scenarios predict the likelihood of a population and economic crash.

However, the study said "unlimited economic growth" is still possible if world governments enact policies and invest in green technologies that help limit the expansion of our ecological footprint.



The Smithsonian notes that several experts strongly objected to "The Limit of Growth's" findings, including the late Yale economist Henry Wallich, who for 12 years served as a governor of the Federal Research Board and was its chief international economics expert. At the time, Wallich said attempting to regulate economic growth would be equal to "consigning billions to permanent poverty."

Turner says that perhaps the most startling find from the study is that the results of the computer scenarios were nearly identical to those predicted in similar computer scenarios used as the basis for "The Limits to Growth."

"There is a very clear warning bell being rung here," Turner said. "We are not on a sustainable trajectory."


Link (http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/blogs/sideshow/next-great-depression-mit-researchers-predict-global-economic-190352944.html?orig_host_hdr=news.yahoo.com&.intl= us&.lang=en-us&ref=type:read,user:qdgVjsctLD85KZg0_VtBCXN3FzI& fb_action_ids=3678177712245&fb_action_types=news.r eads&fb_source=other_multiline)

Not that I'm quoting this as gospel but it's simple logic that at some point we can't sustain the amount of people using our resources the way we do.

[Seshmeister]

The ridiculous thing that you always hear people say is 'well the Earth goes in cycles, it's been much warmer, it's been much colder'.

Fucking A Einstein but at that point there weren't 7 billion people living there using the resources to the fucking max, most living near water and expecting to live to 80+ years old.

We use more than 50% of all the fresh water on the planet at the moment and there is almost no new water coming our way. Think about that. More than 50% of every drop has to be used often pissed out go up in a cloud rain and then be used again. As that happens one of the major superstitions is that people can't prevent having unlimited children because it will upset an invisible cloud god.

Meanwhile we have politicians who boast at how much sexcrement they have generated. Vote for me I have 6 kids, no vote for me I have 7.

Fucking madness.

[kwame k]

The predictions about when we run out of water and the chaos that results is horror movie frightening!

The current water usage rates put Africa and parts of the US on a collision course with depletion in the next decade or so.

There's always that BCE conspiracy theory that they're buying up land in Paraguay in the Guarani indigenous water region so they own one of the largest aquifers in the world, too;)

[gbranton]

Our government right now is giving how many billions away in subsides to oil, natural gas and coal companies?

While most of them pay little to no taxes and we're double taxed on the stuff. Subsides [taxpayer's money] and various federal, state and local taxes add up to being taxed twice. One is a tax and the other is a give away with money they've collected from us......they'd piss it away somewhere else but that's not my point:)

I get tired of hearing this shit all the time. A little research will show you that so called “Big Oil” gets no special subsidies that any other manufacturing group doesn't get. It's called the tax code. Only a bunch of fucking politicians with help from the media can twist the truth so that letting a company lawfully keep a portion of the revenues it EARNS is a “subsidy”.

The truth about Big Oil subsidies...."Every American manufacturing company gets tax deductions that help it create jobs and strengthen our economy -- whether it produces newspapers, furniture, cars or fuel,". "Oil industry tax deductions cover costs incurred in exploration, drilling, production, transportation and refining. They aren't subsidies or special tax breaks. ... Between 1981 and 2008, the largest consolidated oil companies alone paid $1.95 trillion in severance, property, excise, sales and corporate income taxes, the Tax Foundation reports."

http://townhall.com/columnists/pauldriessen/2011/08/26/spreading_big_oil_subsidy_disinformation

[Jesus Christ]

Why do ye help a liar puppet of the Satanic Koch Brothers to bear false witness?

[ashstralia]

It's kind of funny to me that we have one poster who lives in a swamp state whose main city was fucked up by weather just a few years ago and another who lives in a place beset with skin cancers and super heat and they are the people who are against trying to do something about climate change.


no no no, sesh! i'm absolutely not against "trying to do something about climate change".

but a dumb tax (that will just be circumvented by the big players anyway) isn't the answer. imho.

in oz, solar is the way to go.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

no no no, sesh! i'm absolutely not against "trying to do something about climate change".

but a dumb tax (that will just be circumvented by the big players anyway) isn't the answer. imho.

in oz, solar is the way to go.

in everywhere, solar is the way to go ;)

[ashstralia]

agree PB!

we've got a very clever guy here called Dr Karl. by his estimate, a solar farm the size of victoria could potentially power the whole freakin world!!!

and as an amateur astronomy enthusiast, it pisses me off how much wasted energy gets blasted into the night sky every night.

[kwame k]

I get tired of hearing this shit all the time. A little research will show you that so called “Big Oil” gets no special subsidies that any other manufacturing group doesn't get. It's called the tax code. Only a bunch of fucking politicians with help from the media can twist the truth so that letting a company lawfully keep a portion of the revenues it EARNS is a “subsidy”.

The truth about Big Oil subsidies...."Every American manufacturing company gets tax deductions that help it create jobs and strengthen our economy -- whether it produces newspapers, furniture, cars or fuel,". "Oil industry tax deductions cover costs incurred in exploration, drilling, production, transportation and refining. They aren't subsidies or special tax breaks. ... Between 1981 and 2008, the largest consolidated oil companies alone paid $1.95 trillion in severance, property, excise, sales and corporate income taxes, the Tax Foundation reports."

http://townhall.com/columnists/pauldriessen/2011/08/26/spreading_big_oil_subsidy_disinformation


:lmao:


Exxon Mobil, the most profitable of the big five oil companies, made $41.1 billion in profits last year. Although Exxon made 35 percent more profits since 2010, its estimated effective tax rate actually dropped. Citizens for Tax Justice reported Exxon paid only 17.6 percent taxes in 2010, lower than the average American, and a Reuters analysis using the same criteria estimates that Exxon will pay only 13 percent in effective taxes for 2011. Exxon paid zero taxes to the federal government in 2009.

Reuters compares the 45 percent tax rate Exxon claims it pays to the effective rate estimated by Citizens for Tax Justice — a rate that’s even lower than Mitt Romney’s tax rate. Chevron, which made $26.9 billion profit in 2011, paid 19 percent:

Citizens for Tax Justice considers U.S. profits and U.S. taxes paid only. By that measure, Exxon Mobil paid 13 percent of its U.S. income in taxes after deductions and benefits in 2011, according to a Reuters calculation of securities filings.

It is a far cry from the 35 percent top corporate tax rate.

Still, the three-year average for telecom companies is 8 percent; for information technology services companies, it is 2.5 percent, according to CTJ.

Chevron CEO John Watson recently claimed “We’re the highest taxed industry that I’m aware of” while the American Petroleum Institute has claimed the industry pays a tax rate at more than 40 percent. But as Reuters explains, the oil industry uses a different methodology to claim it pays an artificially higher tax rate to the public. The industry “lumps together U.S. and foreign taxes. It includes taxes that are deferred and thus not paid yet. U.S. companies must pay taxes on profits earned abroad, but they can defer these taxes until they bring the cash into the country.” The big five use this tactic of hoarding cash oversees in tax havens, cutting their tax rates drastically. Exxon uses at least 20 tax shelters.Link (http://thinkprogress.org/green/2012/03/26/452213/exxon-mobils-tax-rate-drops-to-13-percent-after-making-35-percent-more-profits-in-2011/)

[Nickdfresh]

What's interesting is the Department of Energy was going to build a prototype clean coal plant at their National Laboratory in Idaho. A lot of lawsuits ended the project. It's like someone doesn't want clean coal. The US is the Saudi Arabia of coal. If they can burn it clean that bites into someone's pocket. The great liberator would be cheap electricity. That would raise the standard of living worldwide. It's the holy grail but it does away with the current system of economic power. Cap and Trade was nothing more than a scam. It would kill the standard of living for everyone except the few who benefit from the taxes.
In my opinion if it doesn't benefit everyone it's not a good plan.

Um**coughBULLSHIT!***

In fact, a plant modernized and installed new filtration technologies and made coal as clean as about anything else. Their verdict was that it was far too expensive to ever do again and they began investing in other fuels...

[PETE'S BROTHER]

roof tiles/shingles, could be panels. cells on EVERY roof, every building, every streetlight, traffic signal, bus stop, parking structure, stadiums, college campussessess, hybrid cars, trams/trains. my lord

[PETE'S BROTHER]

agree PB!

we've got a very clever guy here called Dr Karl. by his estimate, a solar farm the size of victoria could potentially power the whole freakin world!!!

and as an amateur astronomy enthusiast, it pisses me off how much wasted energy gets blasted into the night sky every night.

they are makin' progress on cells that may even produce at night/low light

[ashstralia]

okay, take professor tim flannery. he's a guy (PAID by our gov) who told us in 2007 that we'd be facing the worst drought in history by now.

in the intervening 5 years we've had several 100 year flood events. the points being; 1) he's an 'expert'. 2) he guessed wrong.

[ashstralia]

they are makin' progress on cells that may even produce at night/low light

storage technology too brother.

[kwame k]

roof tiles/shingles, could be panels. cells on EVERY roof, every building, every streetlight, traffic signal, bus stop, parking structure, stadiums, college campussessess, hybrid cars, trams/trains. my lord

Already people doing this in Michigan....... Stan & Iris Ovshinsky are in this vid at the 15 min mark.


http://www.hulu.com/watch/23322/scientific-american-frontiers-hydrogen-hopes?c=News-and-Information#s-p1-so-i0

[Nitro Express]

Solar panels work fine but you have to keep them clean. That means getting up on the roof and cleaning them. You would be amazed at how much a little dirt cuts down the efficiency.

[kwame k]

In the above video I posted they have solar panels that look just like roof shingles! Work the same way, too!

[Nitro Express]

Um**coughBULLSHIT!***

In fact, a plant modernized and installed new filtration technologies and made coal as clean as about anything else. Their verdict was that it was far too expensive to ever do again and they began investing in other fuels...

I don't know where you read that. Coal technology is complex and always moving forward. I got my information talking to PHD's who actually work at the laboratory they develop some of the technology.
https://inlportal.inl.gov/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1269&mode=2&featurestory=DA_62236

[Nitro Express]

In the above video I posted they have solar panels that look just like roof shingles! Work the same way, too!

Yeah but it's like reading an issue of Popular Mechanics. It's full of a bunch of neat things that never seem to transfer to the real world. A nice heavy Michigan snow storm and ice buildup would probably do those solar shingles in. Not to mention climbing on the roof to do repair work and walking on them. They probably would break.

[kwame k]

Maybe....he was beating the hell out of them on that show!

[WACF]

Um**coughBULLSHIT!***

In fact, a plant modernized and installed new filtration technologies and made coal as clean as about anything else. Their verdict was that it was far too expensive to ever do again and they began investing in other fuels...

Clean coal is very expensive...

[Nitro Express]

Clean coal is very expensive...

Yeah but so much of the world's electricity comes from coal and it's not going to easily be replaced. So you have a ton of research going into how to burn it cleaner and even how to reprocess it into other useful fuels. A friend of mine is working on his PHD in biology and his dissertation is the use of bio filters to clean coal plant emissions. He says they have developed a way to turn coal emissions into bio diesel.

The truth of the matter is there will always be a group of people who want to control energy and keep the prices high by manipulating supply. Also, there are people who take advantage of the hype to sell scams. I'm sure a lot of break through technology has been bought and shelved over the years. I see energy as more of a political or control problem than a technological one. Solar panels may make sense in certain situations as does wind. I hate driving along what was a scenic area and seeing a bunch of ugly windmills all over the place. I find them ugly. Wind is also an expensive energy. Keeping those turning and working requires a huge amount of maintenance and it's usually the transmissions that go due to the wide fluctuations of temperatures. Everything has it's problems.

I've been in a state of the art coal plant. You see nothing coming out of a stack. You smell nothing. They are surprisingly quiet. I think a lot of people still envision stokers covered in coal dust shoveling coal into a hellish belly of a boiler with black smoke belching out of a stack. Actually I have spent my whole life around and in various industrial plants. My dad owned a company the relined boilers, reactors, and tanks. I've been in steel mills, nuclear plants, phosphate plants, refineries, smelters. Places the average person has just seen on TV and frankly most people don't understand. They want their modern conveniences but they don't want refineries or oil wells. I'm sorry but oil made the plastic in your computer. It took an industrial plant somewhere to provide the components that go into it.

Most people haven't been to China. I have. The pollution is horrible. The worst I have ever seen. We just pretty much outsourced our pollution along with our manufacturing. People want their jobs back because that industrial base provides a lot of jobs across the board. It was the base of the American middle class. The thing is they don't want the pollution back.

So really we want clean plants but we want reasonable prices and we want our industrial base back. I think we can make them cleaner but prices on goods will go up but the up side is we will create more jobs. Some industries are just going to be dirty. I have yet to see how you can make steel and not smell the plant. It smells like someone welding. I think the smell is worse than a refinery.

The truth of the matter is people want cheap goods but they don't want to see the slaves. They want modern conveniences but they don't want to see or smell the chemical or industrial plants that make that possible. So let's put the slavery and stink in someone else's country. Amazingly the country that gets this stuff always seems to be the next world industrial power because they make stuff. Funny how that works. Britian had the stink in the 19th century, then the US had the stink in the 20th, in the 21st century China has the stink. I guess who has the stink and makes stuff becomes the world power. It's been that way for two centuries. I think we have a love/hate relationship with what the industrial revolution brought us.

[kwame k]

Clean coal is very expensive...

Anytime you update an antiquated system there'll be costs to upgrade........since they'll never give this shit away for free, they'll recoup their costs in what, 5 years! You're talking about an industry that combined makes in the 100's of billions a year!

They're not hurting for cash, it'll make us safer as a planet, the government will subsidize you and in the end you'll still have customers for life!

What's the issue, really.......

[ashstralia]

great post nitro. you should be president. :)

[Nitro Express]

I think a nice reality check would be to have people experience a life with no industry for awhile. Live a month with no factory made anything. The only pollution will be the campfire, the remains from the killed animals, shit, piss, and the occasional puking. Maybe the occasional dead body. All biodegradable. I think the biggest environmentalist would start to go nuts after the first couple of days. Hunting and gathering is non stop work. Pretty much your existence is based on finding something to eat, and trying to survive. It would be a great teacher of nature and reality. It's easy to sit there in a nice climate controlled home, sitting in a nice comfortable seat, eating and drinking stuff you bought at the store, typing on a computer and just taking it all for granted. Most people have no idea what is involved in even making and distributing the goods they use and never think about. They somehow think they can have it all but get rid of what makes it possible.

[ashstralia]

exactly. maybe the real problem is overpopulation...

[Nitro Express]

great post nitro. you should be president. :)

Only a total nut job would want that job.

[ashstralia]

yeah, i see your point. one of our early PM's was a train driver. now they're all just career trough slurpers.

[Nitro Express]

exactly. maybe the real problem is overpopulation...

Not really. When countries industrialize people have less children. Now you have countries like Russia, Japan and France that the native populations are going to die off unless women start having three children each. You have to have 2.1 children per family just to sustain the population. I think population growth is just more alarmist bullshit. The population grows due to technology (longer life spans) and technology sustains it. We can grow more food per acre with less water than ever before. A good place to see a place that thrives on scarce resources is Israel. You can go to Jerico and see green farms and then at the Jordan border it just turns to desert again. Israel is the definition of water crisis but they grow lots of wonderful food there on very little water. They pioneered drip irrigation.

I think the world population will regulate itself. What's been the disaster is any government cooked up scheme to reduce it. China's one child policy has been a disaster. It's going to be a country full of men with not enough women. Those only childs are spoiled rotten too. No woman in her right mind is going to want anything to do with them. Right now in the world areas with a young, educated population are the places that are going to show the most promise. Believe it or not Iran is a place a lot of investors are always looking at. If their political situation ever changes to an more open one, Iran will take off. You will see lots of foreign investors coming in. Places like North America, Europe, and Japan are aging. From and investment standpoint such countries are has beens unless a younger population that is productive can replace the old farts who are sucking resources.

I got balled out by some lady in Seattle for having three kids. She gave me the big lecture on how the world is overpopulated and how we are wasting resources and blah blah blah. I just said lady, these kids will take care of me when I'm old. Who's going to take care of you? She couldn't answer me. That shut the bitch up.

[Nitro Express]

yeah, i see your point. one of our early PM's was a train driver. now they're all just career trough slurpers.

I hear your current one is a female Adolf Hitler.

[WACF]

Anytime you update an antiquated system there'll be costs to upgrade........since they'll never give this shit away for free, they'll recoup their costs in what, 5 years! You're talking about an industry that combined makes in the 100's of billions a year!

They're not hurting for cash, it'll make us safer as a planet, the government will subsidize you and in the end you'll still have customers for life!

What's the issue, really.......

I am all for it...but I believe the governemnt can not afford subsidize us...

I know here is Sask. a year ago they were going ahead with clean coal...I believe they still are...but the cost was unreal and almost a deal breaker.
But...here we are on a small scale...pop of just over 1 million and a large province that covers 227,100 sq mi...

[ashstralia]

I hear your current one is a female Adolf Hitler.

i'm sure she means well; but she's just a puppet controlled by the faceless backroom tyro's. sound familiar?

[Nitro Express]

The way I see the world now is the old Brenton Woods financial guard of the west became corrupt and destroyed the world's banking system trying to create a monopoly for themselves. Now the whole thing is falling apart and the nut jobs need a huge world war as a red herring to save their asses. Meanwhile you have the newer coming nations aligned with China wanting to pull away from the Federal Reserve and European banks which in reality have become the same thing basically. So it's the rise of the east and the fall of the west. Right now we are going to see if places like the US fall into a fascist dictatorship where the desperate failed world bankers just clamp down here and hold their ground. It seems to be falling apart in Europe actually. I think the Euro and European Community are toast. I think the big wild card is the US. A lot of people in power need to go to jail but we are in the early stages of becoming a dictatorship but we will see where it goes. I think a lot of people now see the banking scams for what they are and if we can get control of the printing of dollars and write off the bad money and get the crooks in jail we can write off a lot of fraudulent debt as can Europe.

If we can get through this period and play our cards right, we might see a world that is more economically stable and prosperous than ever before. China and it's allies don't seem to want war. If Europe and the US can get this corrupt war economy bunch out of power and focus on making consumer goods again then we might have a chance. Let's use the technology and resources on bringing the whole world up economically. I think this scarce resource bullshit is promoted by those who have no interest in world peace or bringing the standard of living up across the board. This is what the Brenton Woods Accord was supposed to do but it got hijacked by a bunch of greedy assholes who want scarce resources that they control. You see this same bunch promoting carbon credits, crying about overpopulation, and invading oil rich nations in the name of democracy. Notice this always comes out of North America or Europe. Non of this nonsense comes out of Asia. Really if Australia could break from the old European oligarchs and be part of the new Asian trade alliance it would be better for Australia. We have to get away from these old banking institutions and families because they have ruined us. The road to recovery is to refuse to use their money or pay their debt. Iceland stiffed them and so did Ireland and I think Spain. Nobody has invaded them yet.

But in reality, there is plenty of resources and amazing technology to support the population of planet earth. We just have a few assholes (mostly in the US and Europe) that want to hoard it for themselves.

Ironically I think a lot of people saw Obama to be the guy who would turn us from the old war and scarcity program. The reality is he's just another puppet ran by the same old oligarchs who have been in power for the last 100 years. They needed a superstar who would be loved worldwide. That's why he got the Nobel Peace Prize with nobody really knowing who he was and never having have accomplished anything. They actually thought the world would be dumb enough to get Barrack fever and they would open themselves up so the fleecing could begin. I think it's proven to be a failed experiment and it's become obvious and we are tired and see through the bullshit. I think this game is ending.

[ashstralia]

Really if Australia could break from the old European oligarchs and be part of the new Asian trade alliance it would be better for Australia.

interesting you say that. our top trading partners HERE (http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/focus/081201_top10_twoway_exports.html)

[Nitro Express]

i'm sure she means well; but she's just a puppet controlled by the faceless backroom tyro's. sound familiar?

The US, most of Europe, and the old common wealth nations of the UK pretty much all have puppets running them.

[Nitro Express]

interesting you say that. our top trading partners HERE (http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/focus/081201_top10_twoway_exports.html)

Yeah. You have the resources and then actually some really innovative technologically minded people as well. I would imagine most your mines and other assets are owned by old school oligarchs who want to keep everyone down so they can retain their power structure. The Asian markets seem less smothering. More open to trade and business than some entrenched old money trying to control everything through their puppet politicians and beaurocrats. I see it all as a big fat dinosaur way past it's prime farting dust. As long as that stays in charge your country goes nowhere.

Enternched oligarchs go for three main areas of interest. Raw resources, banking, and politics.

[Nitro Express]

interesting you say that. our top trading partners HERE (http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/focus/081201_top10_twoway_exports.html)

The question is how many of these companies are owned by Australians? Where does the bulk of the trade money flow to? You very well could have a bulk of that trade money leaving the country and that off shore interest could have you politicians in their back pocket. That means less money in your economy and less for the average Australian while it feeds politicians who ignore you or despise you and kiss up to the foreigner who is robbing your nation blind.

[ashstralia]

yeah, i know bhp isn't 100% aussie anymore...

[WACF]

yeah, i know bhp isn't 100% aussie anymore...

BHP...a huge global company with very deep pockets.

They are here building a Potash Mine(and talking of two others)...they have the current Potash companies nervous...they know BHP is too big to mess with.

They will be changing the markets when that mine goes into operation.

[ELVIS]

roof tiles/shingles, could be panels. cells on EVERY roof, every building, every streetlight, traffic signal, bus stop, parking structure, stadiums, college campussessess, hybrid cars, trams/trains. my lord

Yeah right...

Can you say Solyndra ??

[ELVIS]

the government will subsidize you and in the end you'll still have customers for life!

What's the issue, really.......

The issue is that the "government" can't subsidize anything without the taxpayers money...

On top of that, the cost of removing the evil carbon will be passed on to the consumer, more of the taxpayers money...

Then you have people who won't be able to afford the premium energy costs, so I imagine you will want the "government" to subsidize them, again with more of the taxpayer money...

So then I guess the "government" can just raise taxes...right kickme ??


:elvis:

[kwame k]

I could point out we already give them 4 billion in subsidizes and are giving another 12 billion for companies to go green but we know how you and facts go together.......

Seriously, your parents were brother and sister, right.

[jhale667]

I could point out we already give them 4 billion in subsidizes and are giving another 12 billion for companies to go green but we know how you and facts go together.......

Seriously, your parents were brother and sister, right.

:lmao:

[ELVIS]

I could point out we are giving 12 billion for companies to go green.......



The problem is people like you think that's a good thing...

Did you see what happened to the Chevy Volt ??

It's dead...

The government cannot force a technology that isn't fully developed with the taxpayers money...

[kwame k]

The real problem is people like you voting for people like Bush.....not once but twice!

Upgrading the power grid and fixing how we waste energy is a no-brainer.........even an inbred hick like you should be able to grasp that concept;)

[Jesus Christ]

The issue is that the "government" can't subsidize anything without the taxpayers money...

On top of that, the cost of removing the evil carbon will be passed on to the consumer, more of the taxpayers money...

Then you have people who won't be able to afford the premium energy costs, so I imagine you will want the "government" to subsidize them, again with more of the taxpayer money...

So then I guess the "government" can just raise taxes...right kickme ??


:elvis:

Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, Gregory.

And would ye rather have Caesar using that money to fight useless wars in the part of the world where I was born, or use it to create more sensible uses of energy, so the excuse for starting such wars would no longer exist?

[Jagermeister]

This probably is not the best thread to say I support nuclear energy and drilling more in gulf huh?

[chefcraig]

This probably is not the best thread to say I support nuclear energy and drilling more in gulf huh?

Not really. Personally, I'm into alternate forms of energy and prefer my seafood/fowl served minus a coating of motor oil. But what do we know?

[Jagermeister]

Not really. Personally, I'm into alternate forms of energy and prefer my seafood/fowl served minus a coating of motor oil.

All the sea food in the gulf is fine chef. In fact I saw recently there is a web site you can go to and see what they are finding.

[kwame k]

The thing is we are producing more barrels of oil now........yet costs are not going down. Ban oil speculators, as a first step!


North America appears headed for an oil renaissance, with crude production expected to hit an all-time high by 2016, given the current pace of drilling in the U.S. and Canada, according to a study released by an energy research firm this week.

U.S. oil production in areas including West Texas' Permian Basin, South Texas' Eagle Ford shale, and North Dakota's Bakken shale will record a rise of a little over 2 million barrels per day from 2010 to 2016, according to data compiled by Bentek Energy, a Colorado firm that tracks energy infrastructure and production projects.

Canadian crude production is expected to grow by 971,000 barrels per day during the same period, with much of the oil headed for the U.S.

Combined, the U.S. and Canadian oil output will top 11.5 million barrels per day, which is even more than their combined peak in 1972.
Link (http://www.chron.com/business/energy/article/N-American-oil-output-could-top-40-year-old-peak-2193837.php)

[chefcraig]

All the sea food in the gulf is fine chef. In fact I saw recently there is a web site you can go to and see what they are finding.

This time. Who is to say the next time there isn't an event that the word catastrophic fails to adequately describe? Sorry, there simply has to be a better plan for producing energy that doesn't include the word "whoops."

[kwame k]

Fascist commie lib:)

There is no other way, they'll charge us more money if we force them to do anything!

Wait......how much is gas right now?

[ELVIS]

Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, Gregory.

And would ye rather have Caesar using that money to fight useless wars in the part of the world where I was born, or use it to create more sensible uses of energy, so the excuse for starting such wars would no longer exist?

Neither!!!!!!!!!!!!

The federal government has been hijacked by lobbysts and bankers along with the Federal reserve!!!

I don't want taxpayer money to fund illegal wars, green bullshit, a false healthcare bureaucracy or any of the bullshit the lobbysts and politicians try to sell us...

Wake the fuck up...


:elvis:

[jhale667]

All the sea food in the gulf is fine chef. In fact I saw recently there is a web site you can go to and see what they are finding.


Bullsh*t. It's been several weeks ago now, but I picked up some shrimp from the gulf at my local supermarket and when I opened it up it absolutely reeked of oil - so bad I complained and got a refund!

[ELVIS]

Bullsh*t. It's been several weeks ago now, but I picked up some shrimp from the gulf at my local supermarket and when I opened it up it absolutely reeked of oil - so bad I complained and got a refund!

No way do I believe that...

[jhale667]

No way do I believe that...

Riiiight. Yeah, that's it - I made it up, f*cktard. You're an idiot. Seriously, it's a wonder your inbred brain-stem can tell your lungs to inflate...

[Jagermeister]

The thing is we are producing more barrels of oil now........yet costs are not going down. Ban oil speculators, as a first step!


Link (http://www.chron.com/business/energy/article/N-American-oil-output-could-top-40-year-old-peak-2193837.php)

Yeah that's true.

[Jagermeister]

Bullsh*t. It's been several weeks ago now, but I picked up some shrimp from the gulf at my local supermarket and when I opened it up it absolutely reeked of oil - so bad I complained and got a refund!

No that's not bullshit. I'll find the site for you.

[Jagermeister]

No that's not bullshit. I'll find the site for you.

http://www.gulfsource.org/

http://neworleanscitybusiness.com/blog/2011/10/07/louisiana-seafood-safety-testing-results-go-online/

BATON ROUGE — Louisiana officials seeking to erase the stereotype of tainted shrimp, crab and fish dirtied by the Gulf oil spill unveiled a new website Friday that contains test results they say proves to restaurants and consumers that the state’s seafood is safe to eat.

The website , www.gulfsource.org, shows data collected by the Louisiana departments of wildlife and fisheries, environmental quality, health and hospitals, and agriculture and forestry.

Health and Hospitals Secretary Bruce Greenstein said of more than 2,100 samples taken since last year’s Gulf of Mexico oil spill, no sample of seafood, water or sediment has tested near the federally established “level of concern.”

“Our seafood in Louisiana is absolutely the most tested
seafood in the world, and we’ve got a lot of data we want to share with the public,” said Wildlife and Fisheries Secretary Robert Barham. “We obviously have to overcome consumer resistance to Louisiana seafood, and part of the process is education.”

The testing is paid through an $18 million grant from BP after the oil spill. Shrimp, crab, finfish and oysters are sampled monthly, along with water and sediment, to look for oil, toxins and chemicals and determine how much the 2010 spill has damaged the Gulf of Mexico ecosystem.

Louisiana leaders say they want to advertise and market the findings around the country to seafood buyers who have stopped getting Gulf Coast oysters and shrimp because they fear contamination. Online ads already have begun to tout the new GulfSource website, and they plan to expand the advertising.

The site allows users to look at all the testing done by the four Louisiana agencies since the spill or to conduct specific searches by date, region or type of sample.

The seafood testing money from BP, which started flowing this year, is to cover three years of soil, water and seafood sampling up to $18 million. A separate $13 million grant from the oil giant is paying for a three-year study of the spill’s impact on fisheries habitat.

[jhale667]

Just because you found a site that says everything's cool doesn't change what showed up in my store's seafood department. I'm still buying the Indonesian shrimp just in case...

[ELVIS]

Riiiight. Yeah, that's it - I made it up, f*cktard. You're an idiot. Seriously, it's a wonder your inbred brain-stem can tell your lungs to inflate...

You may have smelled something, but it wasn't oil, at least not oil from the gulf...

I went to BP's classes and I've seen the "oil." I've smelled it and I've touched it, and it's not even a liquid oil. It's a tar-like substance...

I have fresh gulf shrimp every few days and I have never seen an oily shrimp, or one that smelled like those tar balls...

I think you bought shrimp that was not fresh...

[chefcraig]

No way do I believe that...

Oh, I do. But as always, it's a case of buyer beware. Chances are, if the seafood product you are buying includes the word Castrol in the packaging, it would probably make sense to avoid purchasing it. This would apply to certain curious energy drinks found drunkenly late in the evening at the 7/11, as well.


http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/nuwave_trading/castrol2t.jpg

[ELVIS]

The best shrimp in the world come from the Gulf...

I hope you enjoy that Indonesian poision...

[Jesus Christ]

Shrimp is only good with olive oil, Gregory. Not with crude....

Errr.... not that I would advocate eating shellfish, of course :jesuslol:

[jhale667]

You may have smelled something, but it wasn't oil, at least not oil from the gulf...

I went to BP's classes and I've seen the "oil." I've smelled it and I've touched it, and it's not even a liquid oil. It's a tar-like substance...

I have fresh gulf shrimp every few days and I have never seen an oily shrimp, or one that smelled like those tar balls...

I think you bought shrimp that was not fresh...

You're not paid to think, this is well documented. Tried de-veining one, and it was indeed filled with an oily tanish sludge I've never seen in a couple of decades of cooking for myself. And it actually smelled more like transmission fluid than oil - but I've smelled less-than fresh shrimp before, and that was NOT what it smelled like, at all.

[Jagermeister]

You may have smelled something, but it wasn't oil, at least not oil from the gulf...

...
Yeah jhale it was probably something stuck left over in that mop on your head.

[jhale667]

Yeah jhale it was probably something stuck left over in that mop on your head.

More hair envy...:lmao:

[Jagermeister]

Just because you found a site that says everything's cool doesn't change what showed up in my store's seafood department. I'm still buying the Indonesian shrimp just in case...

Just because your local market said it was "gulf shrimp" doesn't' mean it was.

[kwame k]

I have fresh gulf shrimp every few days and I have never seen an oily shrimp, or one that smelled like those tar balls...

I think you bought shrimp that was not fresh...

I always pegged you as the black dude from Forrest Gump.......it's your posting style that gives it away:lmao:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=09KL2HUXE6Q#!

[Kristy]

Not really. Personally, I'm into alternate forms of energy and prefer my seafood/fowl served minus a coating of motor oil. But what do we know?
As opposed to radiation poisoning from "accidental" nuclear spillage of course.
http://www.hastynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Three-Eyed-Fish-Caught-In-Nuclear-Lake.jpg

[jhale667]

Just because your local market said it was "gulf shrimp" doesn't' mean it was.


Riiight, it was from somewhere else with an oil spill... :rolleyes:

[ELVIS]

You're not paid to think, this is well documented. Tried de-veining one, and it was indeed filled with an oily tanish sludge I've never seen in a couple of decades of cooking for myself. And it actually smelled more like transmission fluid than oil - but I've smelled less-than fresh shrimp before, and that was NOT what it smelled like, at all.

Maybe it was iodine...

BTW, show me one of those well documented documents...

[chefcraig]

Just because your local market said it was "gulf shrimp" doesn't' mean it was.

This is true. You'd be surprised at how many locals here purchase so-called "bay" scallops that are nothing more than the side of a tuna hacked out with an X-ACTO knife. Shit, the truly hi-tech operators use a hole saw bit attached to a power drill.


http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/DavicusPrime/HoleSaw.jpg

[jhale667]

Maybe it was iodine...

Wouldn't explain the transmission fluid odor.




BTW, show me one of those well documented documents...


Go to your user CP, and click on "view all of ELVIS' posts"... :dafinger: :hee:

[ELVIS]

I always pegged you as the black dude from Forrest Gump.......it's your posting style that gives it away:lmao:



And you're Harry Dunne...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Knx4Cbwi1Es/Rzq97IeDCxI/AAAAAAAAAU0/aYwu0EDTN4E/s320/Harry+Dunne+(Jeff+Daniels_Dumb+n'+Dumber).jpg

Your lack of any posting style gives it away...


:elvis:

[kwame k]

:biggrin:

[ELVIS]

Wouldn't explain the transmission fluid odor.




Transmission fluid smells good. Kinda has a friuty smell...

[jhale667]

Transmission fluid smells good. Kinda has a friuty smell...


:headlights:

[kwame k]

He does take.....having an opposing view to the extreme;)

[Jagermeister]

Actually some pretty interesting stuff on that web site I just happened to find. :rolleyes:

http://www.gulfsource.org/#

[chefcraig]

Transmission fluid smells good. Kinda has a friuty smell...

Why does this remind me of that MASH episode where Klinger ate the jeep? He sauteed the lug nuts around in heated motor oil, but only wound up with a dramatic stomach ache instead of a Section 8.


http://img1.imagehousing.com/63/5446a0dc8412aba7fc570236d02faa6a.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/993764)

[Jesus Christ]

Actually some pretty interesting stuff on that web site I just happened to find. :rolleyes:

http://www.gulfsource.org/#

Do ye think that site might be a little biased?


The state of Louisiana received $18 million from BP to conduct seafood testing and monitoring for three years after the initial Deepwater Horizon oil spill. This project will be funded by BP through January 2014, at a minimum unless future fishing area closures are required as a result of the Deepwater Horizon spill.

One might think that BP is getting the results they paid for......

[Jagermeister]

Oh that's bull shit. It was a fucking grant.

[ELVIS]

Oh that's bull shit. It was a fucking grant.

Isn't it funny how no conspiracy theories exist in a liberal's mind until one fits their agenda ??

[Jagermeister]

Isn't it funny how no conspiracy theories exist in a liberal's mind until one fits their agenda ??

Yes. ..

[jhale667]

Isn't it funny how no conspiracy theories exist in a liberal's mind until one fits their agenda ??


More funny is that's more true of conservatards.

[Jesus Christ]

Isn't it funny how no conspiracy theories exist in a liberal's mind until one fits their agenda ??

Sure, Gregory.... and when Judas Iscariot took 30 pieces of silver from the Pharisees, he was going to use that money to benefit My ministry, right? :jesuslol:

[Jagermeister]

well. jhale's sun tan lotion shrimp derailed the hell out of this thread.

[Jesus Christ]

At least suntan oil would hath a coconut flavor, which would be better than crude oil. I'm beginning to regret that I ever created dinosaurs. :(

[ELVIS]

well. jhale's sun tan lotion shrimp derailed the hell out of this thread.

It was his hair he was smelling...

[chefcraig]

well. jhale's sun tan lotion shrimp derailed the hell out of this thread.

Mmmm, Coconut shrimp. Crap, and all I have in front of me is a can of Mountain Dew, a thing of peanut butter crackers and a fucking stale bag of Funyuns. http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-mad-smileys-264.gif (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/facebook-smileys.html)


http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m473/chanfan56/Cocoa/CoconutShrimp.jpg

[jhale667]

At least suntan oil would hath a coconut flavor, which would be better than crude oil. I'm beginning to regret that I ever created dinosaurs. :(

Unfortunately I'm not a fan of coconut shrimp, your holiness. And since when did transmission fluid smell like coconuts or fruit??

[jhale667]

It was his hair he was smelling...




Toilet-bowl mullet having redneck Yngwie-wannabe says what? :lmao:

[Jesus Christ]

Unfortunately I'm not a fan of coconut shrimp, your holiness. And since when did transmission fluid smell like coconuts or fruit??

Only in Heaven, My son. Where it's actually made from coconut oil. We only use all natural biofuels up here. :jesuslol:

[chefcraig]

Only in Heaven, My son. Where it's actually made from coconut oil. We only use all natural biofuels up here. :jesuslol:

Wait a minute, angels drive in heaven? I thought that only happened on tv.


http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr144/JJPAxorrrr/Supernatural/l374041e90001_1_4792.jpg

[Jesus Christ]

Would it BE Heaven if ye had to walk everywhere?? :jesuslol:

[chefcraig]

Would it BE Heaven if ye had to walk everywhere?? :jesuslol:

Yes, it would. My idea of heaven would mean I could go to the pub, hit a supermarket or go out to eat all within walking distance. Dealing with the inadequacies of other drivers is my concept of HELL.

[Jesus Christ]

The beauty of driving in Heaven, is that ye do not have to drive anywhere, you do so because ye want to. And there is no such thing as a traffic jam. I've heard they have a lot of them down in Hell though, as ye might imagine.

[chefcraig]

The beauty of driving in Heaven, is that ye do not have to drive anywhere, you do so because ye want to. And there is no such thing as a traffic jam. I've heard they have a lot of them down in Hell though, as ye might imagine.

Oh, great. So heaven is like the first 3/4s of Rush's "Red Barchetta", before the gleaming alloy air car shows up. Or a car commercial. Lemme guess, the only hot dogs available are Hebrew National, not Nathan's?

[Jesus Christ]

Oh, great. So heaven is like the first 3/4s of Rush's "Red Barchetta", before the gleaming alloy air car shows up. Or a car commercial. Lemme guess, the only hot dogs available are Hebrew National, not Nathan's?

The Kosher Nathan's are allowed, but not the other kind. :jesuslol:

[BITEYOASS]

Last time I checked, it was the polluters who were actually terrorizing people. They've been hiring mercenaries to take care of their dirty work in the third-world for quite a few decades now.

[BITEYOASS]

But no multi-national corporations....whoops I mean job creators are so angelic and merciful aren't they?

[ELVIS]

Jurriaan Maessen (http://www.infowars.com/earth-summit-2012-promoters-call-for-implementation-of-personal-carbon-quotas/)

April 5, 2012

http://static.infowars.com/2012/04/i/general/earthsummit.jpg

An organization calling itself “The Regeneration Project” calls for governments and NGO’s to create “personal carbon quotas, essentially making carbon a new form of currency for Individuals.”

In addition the group suggests “expanding the mandate of the UN Security Council to include environmental issues and security issues related to the environment” as well as “an International Court for the Environment (ICE) to settle disputes related to the environment and international environmental law.”

A global carbon policy, in other words, enforced by global carbon cops. Furthermore, the group advocates implementation of population stabilization policies at the earth summit to be held in Rio in June of this year.

In their manifest Bringing Rio Closer the organization, describing itself as a “collaborative and multi-facetted initiative by Globescan and SustainAbility”, proposes among other things that the UN mandates governments to execute their population reduction agenda:

“Securing commitments from governments to try to stabilize global population”, the document reads.

Stabilize the global population no less, and using the state (governments) as the enforcers of policies designed to achieve that goal. Here we have yet another example, which we document exhaustively, of key globalist players proposing far-reaching measures to exercise control over the masses. One of the ways of enforcing the agreed upon proposals is, what the Regeneration Project calls: “an International Court for the Environment (ICE) to settle disputes related to the environment and international environmental law.”

Another measure proposed by the Regeneration Project:

-Establishing a World Environment Organization (WEO);

This is quite a set of proposals issued by the group that would raise our eyebrows if the group was not co-sponsored by the United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) and the World Bank. We have come to expect such things from these organizations. It was the World Bank which back in 1984 suggested (page eight) that “drastic steps” will be necessary if developing nations do not comply with their population control directives.

It was not the first time that the Regeneration Project sought to curb the human population. In their paper Unfinished Business the group advises governments to keep the population under a certain number, reminiscent of the Georgia Guidestones:

“(…) stabilizing population to not more than eight billion people”, the Unfinished Business report explains.

Leading up to the next UN’s “earth summit” we see an acceleration of calls for global population control and global government. We can expect to feel even more dark energy emanating from the scientific dictatorship in the weeks and months to come.



:elvis:

[Jesus Christ]

But no multi-national corporations....whoops I mean job creators are so angelic and merciful aren't they?

Remember that Lucifer sometimes disguiseth himself as an angel of light.

[Nickdfresh]

From "Info Wars" huh, bud? Kay, bullshit!


More Alex Jones bullshit for you.
Posted on 08/23/2009 by WHM

Source: Examiner

Many followers of Alex Jones and his web-site infowars.com are full of terrifying conspiracies of a new world order. Many critics of Alex Jones claim that his conspiracies never come true and that there is not much research behind what he says.

William Cooper author of the book Behold a Pale Horse exposed Alex Jones as a scaremonger just before William Cooper was killed by authorities in 2001. William Cooper explained how on New Year’s Eve of 1999 Alex Jones’ radio show was full of lies, propaganda and scare tactics. Cooper explained how Alex Jones discredited patriots with his acts of fear mongering. According to William Cooper, Jones’ radio broadcast on that night could have created mass panic that led to martial law.

[listen to this here: Youtube -PSUSA]

Cooper believed that Alex Jones is trying to make Americans violent so martial law can take place. On New Year’s Eve of 1999 Alex Jones explained how cash machines were failing, explosives were going off in France, missiles being launched in Russia and how China was being attacked. Alex Jones also began shouting about how there were more wars going on at that time than in the last 50 years. Alex Jones even said that hundreds of thousands of people were dying on the last day of 1999. None of these so called wars or mass killings were taking place. Jones succeeded in panicking large amounts of people that night and is still succeeding to this day.

Some who oppose Alex Jones believe he is a change agent who is trying to inspire violence so the United States has a revolution. Other’s claim that he is part of a secret government project called ‘mockingbird’ where a commercial broadcaster infiltrates the media. One of Cooper’s favorite quotes was, “Whoever fires the first shot loses.” Many claims and accusations of conspiracies are being made by Alex Jones but solutions are seldom offered.

Supporters of Alex Jones call him a true patriot and much of the alternative media appreciate the attention he has brought to out of the box thinking on commercial media. So is Alex Jones exposing conspiracies or is he inspiring fear in hopes of creating martial law? Maybe he was just a victim of reporting so-called facts and stories that he didn’t research or maybe he is being fed false information. William Cooper often said, “We must have moral high ground.” Scaring each other will get us nowhere except in a bunker with water and ammunition in the mountains. Topics such as immigration, H1N1 vaccinations and an Orwellian new world order all need to be researched and openly discussed with a foundation of education.

Scaremongering fictional e-mails that have Obama, Rush Limbaugh and Oprah saying this and that need to be researched not gossiped and forwarded to your friends and co-workers. So the next time you hear some frightening news do your research and see if a panic merchant sold you some chicken fried fear.

http://surrealworld.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/more-alex-jones-bullshit-for-you/

See! You're just a pawn in a devious disinformation and agent provocateur scheme, Elvis!

[jhale667]

From "Info Wars" huh, bud? Kay, bullshit!



Info Wars...Oh, FFS... :lol:

[ELVIS]

Info Wars automatically makes it BS ??

[Jesus Christ]

No, but quoting from a BP funded "study" certainly does.

[Nickdfresh]

Info Wars automatically makes it BS ??

Yep. Complete charlatan, scam artist scaremongering for a paranoid audience BS...

[ELVIS]

I disagree...

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Yeah right...

Can you say Solyndra ??

yes, i think :umm: but i'll have to google the meaning...

[PETE'S BROTHER]

yes, i think :umm: but i'll have to google the meaning...

that's what i thought, fuck them, there are legit reputable companies that can do real work with real oversight.

[Seshmeister]

Yes, it would. My idea of heaven would mean I could go to the pub, hit a supermarket or go out to eat all within walking distance.

I can report from here in your heaven that it does rain more than you would expect.

[Seshmeister]

Info Wars automatically makes it BS ??

The one time I watched it he spent 30 minutes screaming that Wolfgang didn't play bass on the new Van Halen album...

[chefcraig]

I can report from here in your heaven that it does rain more than you would expect.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRF5ps3ZIGg


http://img1.imagehousing.com/65/7d83292bec8850cccf1ae4b60f04d40e.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/993950)

[ELVIS]

The one time I watched it he spent 30 minutes screaming that Wolfgang didn't play bass on the new Van Halen album...

Well, it is Wolfgang...

That must be the one time Alex was wrong...

[ELVIS]

See! You're just a pawn in a devious disinformation and agent provocateur scheme, Elvis!

Why, because William Cooper, a conspiracy theorist, said something negative about Jones in a book 12 years ago ??

That's a load of bullshit if I ever heard one...

Next...


:elvis:

[gbranton]

Here's another big believer in man made, anthopological global warming. He claims to be an expert of sorts and has some simple, common sense solutions. But then again he's always been a leader of sorts and knows a thing or two about cults as well.

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/197314/slide_197314_845435_huge.jpg?1333636532

http://www.prisonplanet.com/charles-manson-global-warming-prophet.html

[Seshmeister]

Jones is full of fucking shit.

The irony is that he says that various people are trying to manipulate the public while at the same time completely and cynically cutting and splicing stuff together to make false evidence for fake stories.

Most of the time though he just says things that come from nowhere like 'the UN is taking over the world' but doesn't explain where these ideas have come from.

[ELVIS]

Manson or Jones ??

[Seshmeister]

Here's another big believer in man made, anthopological global warming. He claims to be an expert of sorts and has some simple, common sense solutions. But then again he's always been a leader of sorts and knows a thing or two about cults as well.


Manson shits out of his anus.

Does that mean we all have to stop doing that now? :)

[Seshmeister]

Manson or Jones ??

Jones. Manson is completely irrelevant.

[chefcraig]

Why, because William Cooper, a conspiracy theorist, said something negative about Jones in a book 12 years ago ??

That's a load of bullshit if I ever heard one...

Next...


:elvis:

Well, to be fair E, Bill Cooper was a nut case. He's the guy that predicted that NASA (backed by the Illuminati) was going to blow up planet Jupiter using the Galileo space craft packed full of plutonium on a mission in 1999. This is the same guy that supposedly had photos of a secret alien moon base that he frustratingly never got around to showing anyone, and furthermore claimed to have found a top secret government training manual for social engineering in a photocopier at a yard sale. For him to say anything about Alex Jones' was kinda silly.

[ELVIS]

Jones. Manson is completely irrelevant.

I knew you meant Jones...

But I wouldn't expect any less from someone who thinks everything is fine...

Alex Jones lives for research, and I admit he sometimes connects dots that maybe shouldn't be connected...

But I think he's honest and has some guts to say some of the things he says, and he has good guests pretty often...

It's great entertainment if nothing else...


:elvis:

[Seshmeister]

Here's a conspiracy theory for you.

Look at Alex Jones' advertisers and sponsors. When you are watching/listening have you noticed a lot of them are selling 'alternative medicines' at the same time Jones is saying shit like all doctors are owned by big Pharma? Have you noticed that maybe there are quite a lot of commercials which are for gold and silver at the same time he is trying to get people scared. What do people who are scared about the future buy?

It's pretty blatant http://www.infowars.com/gold-collapse-the-bubble-is-pricked/

[ELVIS]

I'm well aware of his sponsors...

I'm sure you could use some Tangy Tangerine...

Good stuff !!

[Nickdfresh]

Why, because William Cooper, a conspiracy theorist, said something negative about Jones in a book 12 years ago ??

That's a load of bullshit if I ever heard one...

Next...


:elvis:

Yep...at least he had the balls to be shot dead...

[ashstralia]

I'm beginning to regret that I ever created dinosaurs. :(

hang on; if the world's only 6000 years old, how the hell could there have been dinosaurs??

[Seshmeister]

[ashstralia]

is there something you want to tell us, sesh? (it's cool, i'll keep it on the quiet)

[ELVIS]

hang on; if the world's only 6000 years old, how the hell could there have been dinosaurs??

You think the world is only 6000 years old ??

[vandeleur]

This should be good

[Seshmeister]

Elvis isn't a young earth nutcase.

Actually very few Christians in the world are, for a start the Catholics don't think the earth is 6000 years old.

It's mainly just some fuckwit minority in the US.

This whole bible literalism is a new thing, people are actually getting more stupid with their religions. In the 1800s the vast majority of Christians realised that the bible wasn't literally true and treated the stories as allegory.

[ashstralia]

You think the world is only 6000 years old ??

yes. now shush, the people are talking.

[ELVIS]

Even taken completely literally there's nothing in the Bible that suggests the age of the planet...
























And shaddup, ashholio...

[Nitro Express]

Even taken completely literally there's nothing in the Bible that suggests the age of the planet...

























And shaddup, ashholio...

The way the Mormon church spins it is they say God the father lives on a different time continum on his planet Kolob than what is here on earth. So one of God's days is something like a 1000 years here if I remember right. The thing is the church is changing more and more stuff due to it bringing bad PR on them. Since Brigham Young was a racist who threatened those who married outside their race with death, the church wants to avoid that so they have been systematically ignoring Brigham Young while focusing on a reinvented Joseph Smith. It's fun to watch them try and dodge their history. The thing is if they deny the old prophets and teachings they basically admit the church was never true to begin with. But how they spin that is they say they believe in a living prophet and they follow the current revelations and not the old ones. So they are making it up as they go hoping enough people won't leave and stop their generous donations. I think one of two things will happen here. The Mormon Church will just become a mainstream Christian church that has tossed off the old teachings or it will just become an all commercial holding company with no religious affiliation. They seem to focus more and more on the business end than the church.

[ELVIS]

That's some comedy right there, Nitro...


:elvis:

[FORD]

Even taken completely literally there's nothing in the Bible that suggests the age of the planet...


It's not in the Bible, but it's a common belief in Fundagelical circles that it was 2000 years from Adam & Eve to Moses, and an additional 2000 years from Moses to JC. And of course, 2000 years from JC to now. Add to that the "day is like 1000 years" thing, and they see the whole of existence as one "week" with the Millenial reign of JC being analagous to God resting on the 7th day.

Though obviously, we're in 2012 and JC isn't here yet (except for online, of course). Maybe it doesn't really count until 2030, which would be the anniversary of His crucifixion & resurrection.

[Nitro Express]

If the records are right we know Jesus existed during the rein of King Herod and Caesar Augustus. In that ball park. There is no specific date on his second coming. So people have been anticipating that forever. Supposedly Jesus was born in the median of time. So if you go from his crucifixion to the second coming and then add on the thousand years of peace where Christ reins personally on the earth. Then once you have the year total at the end of the thousand years of peace and you move that amount before the birth of Christ and you supposedly have the date of when Adam and Eve were put into the garden.

In other words this all has to happen first before you have the real answer. Kind of like Nacy Pelosi saying we have to pass it before you can see what's in it.

What the religions do is pump the congregation full of fear. Jesus is coming and are you ready? If you want to scare the shit out of a Christian dress up like Jesus and knock on their door and say,"I am the son of God and I have returned." They will shit an absolute brick because they have been told their whole lives they aren't worthy and Jesus is coming and the only way to please him is the pay the church money and do whatever the church leaders want. Even at that it's still not good enough, Jesus died in agony for your sins, until you are on a cross, bleeding, in pain you can't even come close to Jesus.

In other words, we are going to rape and use you because it will humble you to meet Jesus someday and unless you let us totally exploit you, he won't give you your eternal reward.

[private parts]

The way the Mormon church spins it is they say God the father lives on a different time continum on his planet Kolob than what is here on earth. So one of God's days is something like a 1000 years here if I remember right. The thing is the church is changing more and more stuff due to it bringing bad PR on them. Since Brigham Young was a racist who threatened those who married outside their race with death, the church wants to avoid that so they have been systematically ignoring Brigham Young while focusing on a reinvented Joseph Smith. It's fun to watch them try and dodge their history. The thing is if they deny the old prophets and teachings they basically admit the church was never true to begin with. But how they spin that is they say they believe in a living prophet and they follow the current revelations and not the old ones. So they are making it up as they go hoping enough people won't leave and stop their generous donations. I think one of two things will happen here. The Mormon Church will just become a mainstream Christian church that has tossed off the old teachings or it will just become an all commercial holding company with no religious affiliation. They seem to focus more and more on the business end than the church.

"The Mormon Cult" flows off the tongue a little better don't you think? They are a huge business. Probably one of the riches cults in the US.(yes, I too watch the Discovery Channel)
And by the way, do they listen to VH on planet Kolob? Or just Slammy Hagar?

[FORD]

And by the way, do they listen to VH on planet Kolob? Or just Slammy Hagar?

No, this is what passes for "hard rock" on Kolob.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMM3MgS4yxc

[Nitro Express]

That's some comedy right there, Nitro...


:elvis:

The Mormon church is a great comedy. Hell, the South park guy made a hit Broadway musical based on it. All he did was show what the church really teaches and people laugh their asses off.

[Nitro Express]

No, this is what passes for "hard rock" on Kolob.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMM3MgS4yxc

They got Gladys Knight now. She converted.


Motab meets Motown. With the carribean vibe they need to be smoking a ganja sacrament.

[Seshmeister]

That's very appropriate, she's rhyming slang in the UK.

e.g. I wouldn't go into the bathroom for a while I just did a stinky Gladys.

[Nitro Express]

That's very appropriate, she's rhyming slang in the UK.

e.g. I wouldn't go into the bathroom for a while I just did a stinky Gladys.

You would get in trouble here. Naming your brown shit after a black entertainer would be racist.

[Seshmeister]

It never even occurred to me but i guess so.

It only works because of our word shite rhyming it with Night.

It's a better word used just as a stronger version of shit. I think Australians use it too but not Americans.

[FORD]

It never even occurred to me but i guess so.

It only works because of our word shite rhyming it with Night.

It's a better word used just as a stronger version of shit. I think Australians use it too but not Americans.

I've used it before.... but only on censorship happy websites that won't let you type "shit". Of course you have to spell it "shyte" then.

[Seshmeister]

It's funny but I never knew Americans used the word cunt until the early 90s. I just assumed it was another one of our unique ones because up until then I had never heard it in an American movie, song or book.

[Kristy]

It's mainly just some fuckwit minority in the US.

My roommate attends Denver Seminary and is probably the most religious person I know and yet she doesn't subscribe to the just over 6,000 year old theory. Other than her wanting to be a social worker and that I cannot play Black Sabbath tunes for some gawd only knows reason while she is around I'm happy that she is not in the minority.

[FORD]

You should play "After Forever" for her. Despite it being Black Sabbath, it was probably the first "Christian Rock" song ever written....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkmyZ8juZWw

[ashstralia]

And shaddup, ashholio...


hahaha! ashholio. i'll pay that. :biggrin: