The Founding Fathers on Religion

[Nitro Express]

"[R]eligion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
-James Madison (principal writer of the US Constitution)

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
-Thomas Jefferson (principal writer of the bill of rights)

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it"
-John Adams

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
- Benjamin Franklin

Interesting is the religious right love to spout how this nation was built on religion but nothing could be further from the truth. It was built on the idea of giving individuals the freedom to pursue their own happiness.

[vh rides again]

I watched a show last night on the Vatican and they touched on the subject of U.S presidents having dialog with the pope.
Kennedy was the first and also refused to kiss his ring to show that he was separating church from state.
He shook his hand instead and clearly in the clip the pope was confused, he looked around wondering what the fuck just happened.
Kennedy was catholic.

I dont think the founders of this country had in mind that religion was useless but more like you had the freedom to follow whichever religion you chose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

Roth And Roll

[Seshmeister]

It's also important to remember that in those days it was quite sensible to be religious since no one knew what the fuck was going on.

If noone is even sure what the fuck is going on when there is a thunderstorm then it's not so irrational to think there is an invisible sky daddy.

They had an excuse but even then guys like Jefferson didn't take it.

For a bunch of tax dodging slave traders they did have some redeeming traits...

[ELVIS]

That's pretty darn smug...

[Jack68]

"Thanks for being Christlike not like Christians.."
Great stuff..

[Panamark]

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[Jack68]

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One of the greatest songs ever written.

[Panamark]

Hey Jack68

I think so too.
Made me think theres a set of songs out there that are really
from somewhere else. I started a thread in House of Music.
I love this song.

[Jesus Christ]

Admittedly I'm a little biased, but that has always been My favorite Beach Boys song.

[Jesus Christ]

Oh, and as far as this whole question of church/state separation goes, here's a couple of quotes from Me.....

"My kingdom is not of this world".

"Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's."

[jhale667]

A guy I grew up with has gone all batsh*t zealot in recent years, and regularly posts links from this wacko site called Wallbuilders that's run by a "self-described" "constitutional scholar" who tries to twist quotes from the founding fathers around to make it seem like they actually intended the opposite - for America to be a christian theocracy. It's kind of pathetic, but not unlike what zealots do with scripture on a near daily basis...


Begs the question, if that's indeed what the founding fathers intended, why wouldn't they have just set things up that way?

[Dr. Love]

A guy I grew up with has gone all batsh*t zealot in recent years, and regularly posts links from this wacko site called Wallbuilders that's run by a "self-described" "constitutional scholar" who tries to twist quotes from the founding fathers around to make it seem like they actually intended the opposite - for America to be a christian theocracy. It's kind of pathetic, but not unlike what zealots do with scripture on a near daily basis...


Begs the question, if that's indeed what the founding fathers intended, why wouldn't they have just set things up that way?

um... there's so much about this country that ended up contrary to what was intended that it's shocking.

[Nitro Express]

It's also important to remember that in those days it was quite sensible to be religious since no one knew what the fuck was going on.

If noone is even sure what the fuck is going on when there is a thunderstorm then it's not so irrational to think there is an invisible sky daddy.

They had an excuse but even then guys like Jefferson didn't take it.

For a bunch of tax dodging slave traders they did have some redeeming traits...

Actually the slavery was practiced in the British Empire which the American colonies were part of. The revolution wasn't over just taxes. It was over being taxed an not being represented in the British parliament. Also the colonies due to the lack of gold and silver used continental script paper money. The British government wanted the taxes paid in gold. This essentially ruined the continental currency and created a devastating situation. Basically the whole economy was ruined as a result.

You have to remember most the people in the colonies wanted to remain in the British empire it's just that government policy didn't jive too well with the local situation and the refusal to adapt the tax situation for the local economy sparked off the revolution and the move to have a constitutional republic instead of a monarchy. From what I understand the parliament was against fighting with the colonies but the arrogant King George III pushed the matter. Interesting since he raised taxes to pay off war debts. Basically he sounds like our current batch of knuckle heads.

[Nitro Express]

um... there's so much about this country that ended up contrary to what was intended that it's shocking.

Very true. Once politicians figure out they can use the public treasury to buy votes and the public accepts that, it's the begining of the end. What nails the coffin shut is when the money is issued by a private central bank that prints money like there is no tomorrow and the congress raises debt to run the country while future generations of tax payers get saddled with it, so the private bank board and their friends can live lavish lifestyles. They basically have turn the future unborn generations into collateral that they can borrow against several hundred times. In fact, they just print obscene amounts of money that will never be paid back, the taxes are just there for the illusion to make the money look like it's actually valuable to where the government needs it.

Quite the ponzi scheme I would say. Probably the biggest one ever in world history.

We went from a nation where immigrants wanted their children raised here for the opportunities to where if you are born here you will be saddled with more debt than any other citizens in the world. If this situation isn't remedied soon you will see people leave the US in droves until to stop the drain the government will stop immigration out of here. But then the problem is bigger than the US. We just had the most resources to steal. Other countries are being screwed by the same banking cabals and corporations. It's corporate globalization and it's in bed with the banks and it's become more powerful than whole nations. This is the Hitler of our day we have to fight and the war is economic. The US was not bombed out with bombs. It was infiltrated and sold off and ruined economically. A few people got filthy rich from it and most were ruined. Instead of armies financial institutions were used and debt and outsourcing were the weapons of mass destruction.

[jhale667]