Stop the Flow of Dirty Money

[Blaze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3CSbloiYgg

We will eliminate the outsized influence of the oil industry and challenge public officials who take contributions and then put Big Oil's interests above those of the American people. Oil companies spend millions each year to mislead the public, undermine science, undercut clean energy alternatives, and manipulate our democracy to keep America dependent on oil. The Sierra Club will:

Hold accountable any politician who favors the oil industry at the expense of fiscal responsibility and the environment.

Raise public awareness of the direct negative influence that oil contributions have on politics and pocketbooks.

Build the voter support needed to elect environmentally and fiscally responsible candidates.

For decades, the oil industry's hold on politics has seemed inevitable and untouchable. The fossil-fuel industry poured $500 million into anti-climate lobbying and pro-oil candidates during the 2010 midterm elections. This money had enormous influence on climate policy, the price of gas, and the $4 billion in taxpayer subsidies that oil companies collect each year. In a 2012 vote to repeal those subsidies, the U.S. senators who voted in favor of Big Oil had collected five times more in oil and gas industry campaign contributions than those who voted to cut the subsidies.

We will publicize and stigmatize Big Oil's political giving so that accepting campaign contributions and then voting for Big Oil's interests over the interests of the American people becomes an irrecoverable political vulnerability.

Learn More

beyondoil.org (http://www.beyondoil.org)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCq015rc_lk

[Nitro Express]

If you think about it, transportation has changed very little during our lifetimes. Sure commercial jets are more fuel efficient but flying actually has gone downhill since I was a kid flying on Boeing 707's.

The same with cars. We have made them lighter and they get better mileage but your average car now isn't that much different than what we were driving around in the 70's.

The one thing that has changed a lot is personal access to computing power and communications.

One trend I have noticed is we continue to get more and more choices on unimportant things but on things that are important we are getting less choice. It's like the people who really control the political machines have figured it out. Give the little people all sorts of entertainment and consumer choices. Give them easy credit to indulge and they will be distracted from what we are doing and in the end, we will own their ass because they will be in debt up to their ears and as long as we can maintain political control, they remain debtors slaves to us.

[Angel]

One trend I have noticed is we continue to get more and more choices on unimportant things but on things that are important we are getting less choice. It's like the people who really control the political machines have figured it out. Give the little people all sorts of entertainment and consumer choices. Give them easy credit to indulge and they will be distracted from what we are doing and in the end, we will own their ass because they will be in debt up to their ears and as long as we can maintain political control, they remain debtors slaves to us.

Nailed it.

[jacksmar]

Back on topic.

Products made from oil:

Ammonia
Antifreeze
Antiseptics
Art supplies
Artificial limbs
Aspirin
Astroturf
Awnings
Bandages
Cleaning products
Candles
Carpets
Caulking
Clothing
Crayons
Creams
Cosmetics
Cutlery
Dentures
Dice
Dyes
Electronics
Film
Fishing line
Floor wax
Foam
Glasses
Glue
Glycerin
Guitar strings
Heart valves
Helmets
Ink
Insulation
Lubricants
Medicine
Nail polish
Nylon
Paint
Paint brushes
Panty hose
Petroleum jelly
Plastics
Records
Refrigerant
Roofing
Shampoo
Shaving cream
Shoes
Shower curtains
Skis
Soap
Solvents
Sports equipment
Tires
Toys
Trash bags
Umbrellas
Upholstery
Vitamin capsules

Walk down any grocery aisle and try to find no trace of oil. Even your "organic food" food stores. You can't do it. Go to a hospital. Same deal.

This commie lib green bullshit is costing taxpayers too much cash. Has from the start. FBHO has stopped coal West Virginia. FBHO tries to deflect the blame. Nobody is buying his muslo-Marxism Obamanure.

Oil is the fuel of the engine for capitalism and freedom. Period.

All responses to the contrary must be made from a non-oil based product.

[BigBadBrian]

All responses to the contrary must be made from a non-oil based product.

All computers are made from predominantly plastic....oil....and metal....requiring oil to make.....and manufactured in plants that run on...oil. :biggrin:

[Satan]

So how is all that shit going to be made when the oil runs out? Considering it's getting pretty close to that, don't you think you mortals better figure that out?

The easy part will be going back to packaging that should have never changed in the first damn place. (i.e jars and bottles being made from glass. The products taste better, and the container recycles easy. And there's plenty of sand to make more glass, even if none of you lazy bastards recycled)

Most of the other products could be made from a natural renewable source, like hemp.

And if you need an effective advertizing gimmick to get people off oil, just blame me like you do for everything else. After all, oil comes from deep beneath the ground, so we must be making it in Hell, right? http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d010.gif

[jhale667]

Amazing how the conservatard crowd always goes worst-case-nightmare batsh*t scenario and wants you to think "liberals" want to cease the use of ALL oil, when we should be talking about reducing and eventually eliminating the use of it as our primary fuel source for vehicles.

[jacksmar]

"The easy part will be going back to packaging that should have never changed in the first damn place."
Correct. Sort of. This type of packaging is truly recyclable, not re-used. The catch is the lighter plastic package used currently costs about the same to ship at half the weight. So simply: A 54' trailer full of "plastic goods" shipped at the same price as 1/2 a 54' trailer with "glass goods": same price.

You can't go in to the food supply to fuel vehicles. It's counter productive. Andy Granatelli made car that ran on kerosene and water. The oil lobbies and autoworkers unions shut that car down.

In addition, as tested at Indy, carbon fiber pieces are attached to your car for fuel economy and safety reasons. Your car dissipates K energy easier in an accident leaving you in one piece. Brakes are made of carbon fiber where they used to be made from asbestos. Development has stalled at GM due to the government buyout.

Vehicles took the left protestors to Madison Wisconsin to protest by the bus load. They could have spent their time and effort better protesting in DC and asking for Hempseed Bio fuel and getting legitimate about the issue instead of acting like Jerry Garcia invented the movement.

They left is a victim of their own ideology. They want clean air, clean water, and clean vehicles but aren't willing to build a plant to make it or sustain it.

The United States isn't a national park.

Oil is the fuel of the engine for capitalism and freedom. It's what turns your lights on and what keeps our ships at sea. It cradles your children and attacks disease.

Everything surrounding you at this moment has "touched" a truck.

That's how it is.

[Satan]

Oil is the fuel of the engine for capitalism and freedom. It's what turns your lights on and what keeps our ships at sea. .

Which ships would those be?

The oil tankers shipping it in from foreign countries?
The military ships occupying foreign countries because of oil (yes I know the aircraft carriers are nuclear)?
The ships bringing in all the cheaply manufactured plastic shit from China which shouldn't be coming from there in the first place?

None of that should be happening either. We don't need those ships at sea.

[jacksmar]

Then send back your computer(laptop), throw away your car keys, and move to Syria.

BTW, oil is enabling your response across a wire.

[jacksmar]

You bet your red little ass were occupying foreign countries for oil. Reagan, Bush, Clinton,and G W Bush all got it. Even Obamanure gets it. Your oil in the US is the nation's "oil reserve". And all other oil is ours for the buying. All we have to do is "remind" the oil producing nations that this is the case.

[Satan]

Then send back your computer(laptop), throw away your car keys, and move to Syria.

BTW, oil is enabling your response across a wire.

Not here in Hell..... we use geothermal energy for everything. Other than the pure fire used for tormenting the damned, of course.

[jacksmar]

Not quite sure where HELL is, but in the U.S., geothermal accounts for about .38 percent of all energy use.

Geothermal is VERY expensive due to the cost of finding a drill site. In the oil industry when they miss an oil well it's called a loss. In the geothermal industry a miss is called a taxpayer subsidized write-off. Oil companies get subsidies too, right?
Wrong.
They get: a domestic manufacturing tax deduction, a percentage depletion allowance, intangible drilling costs (not available at the same price to all oil companies), and a foreign tax credit.

Do you know what oil company does get a U.S. subsidy? Petrobas. Made in Brazil.

Get serious on this issue. Oil companies threw around about 17 million in the 2008 election. You know where that puts them? 19th. You know who was first? Your friendly neighborhood lawyer. 126 million.

Even if you stopped these "subsidies", the oil companies money would run the government for about two hours.

That's how it is.

[Satan]

Geothermal is cheap here. Because we're at the source. No drilling necessary.

[Angel]

You bet your red little ass were occupying foreign countries for oil. Reagan, Bush, Clinton,and G W Bush all got it. Even Obamanure gets it. Your oil in the US is the nation's "oil reserve". And all other oil is ours for the buying. All we have to do is "remind" the oil producing nations that this is the case.

Do you even know where most of your oil is imported from??? I can tell you this much, you've never invaded them...although you came close in 1812.

[Satan]

Do you even know where most of your oil is imported from??? I can tell you this much, you've never invaded them...although you came close in 1812.

Yeah, but if the teabaggers figure that out, they will probably demand an invasion of Canada. And if (my Former Employer forbid) Romney steals the election and appoints that fucking lunatic John Bolton to his cabinet (which he's already threatened to do) then I wouldn't put it past them for a second.

Sadly, it probably wouldn't be funny like Michael Moore's only fictional movie, "Canadian Bacon".

[Blaze]

Back on topic.

Products made from oil:

~prattle ~

Oil is the fuel of the engine for capitalism and freedom. Period.

All responses to the contrary must be made from a non-oil based product.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8meWY0W40OA

http://www.transitionnetwork.org/sites/default/files/uploaded/u5857/TransitionNetwork-Logo-Web.jpg

transitionnetwork.org -link (http://www.transitionnetwork.org/support/7-buts)

[ELVIS]

What "teabaggers" are you talking about ??

Define a teabagger...

[jacksmar]

[QUOTE=Blaze;1662654][video posted about a clueless dumbass.

Picture of a basement organization worried about"football" cured by Southern Solar.

Facts:
http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Stay on topic, no matter how hard this is to do. Stay on topic. It's about oil's dirty influence. Not what you think you know about replacing oil.

Oil is here for at least the next two hundred years. 80% of all oil is state owned. Most countries that produce oil have nationalized their in ground supply.


So here is a favor to all the RothArmy faithful: Weatherford Industries: NYSE:WFT


That's how it is.

[ELVIS]

BUt the liberals say we're running out of oil...:biggrin:

[Angel]

Just keep on buying. Our economy enjoys it thoroughly.

[Satan]

BUt the liberals say we're running out of oil...:biggrin:

And they are correct in saying so.

Believe me, Nurse Presley, when you live where I do, and commute to Earth on occasion, you travel through oil pockets to get there. And there's a lot less of them than there used to be. http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d085.gif

[WACF]

Just a thought....

That clip on the "Tar Sands"....just a heads up....it is not tar...look up what tar is....any organization that portrays it as such is not valid...so by default either is their opinion.

It is easy to attack Canada on it...because you don't die or end up in Jail.

Do some research on Eithical oil....lots of dirty and bloody oil from many countries the US imports from....and I do not mean the Middle East either.

[LoungeMachine]

Yeah, but if the teabaggers figure that out, they will probably demand an invasion of Canada.".

Can we just send in Seal Team 6 to get Nickleback instead?

:gulp:

[Angel]

Can we just send in Seal Team 6 to get Nickleback instead?

:gulp:

Oh God! Please do!!!

[BITEYOASS]

We need more public transportation in this country, mainly to keep all the dumbasses and drunks off the road, and to keep poor people from having to purchase and drive vehicles that look like they are going to disintegrate any moment.

[Nickdfresh]

....
You can't go in to the food supply to fuel vehicles. It's counter productive.

Why not? Brazil does...


Andy Granatelli made car that ran on kerosene and water. The oil lobbies and autoworkers unions shut that car down.

Bullshit...

[Nickdfresh]

Can we just send in Seal Team 6 to get Nickleback instead?

:gulp:


SEAL Team6? All you'd need are Boyscouts with slingshots for those pansy pussy-bitches...

[Unchainme]

Why not? Brazil does...

I'll swoop in on this,.

The problem is not the production, but the transportation. When we finally find a cheaper way to transport ethanol, than, things will go a lot smoother.

I have no clue as to how the Brazilians are able to pull theirs off though. I'd be in full support of us figuring that out, because, with a limited oil supply, the us would be fucked.

[jhale667]

Don't the Brazilians produce their ethanol from sugar, which is waaaaaay cheaper than from corn - which due to the corn lobby - is the only type the US is pursuing?

[FORD]

Don't the Brazilians produce their ethanol from sugar, which is waaaaaay cheaper than from corn - which due to the corn lobby - is the only type the US is pursuing?

Yep. And of course they also put it in their Coca Cola where it belongs. Hell, they even make alcohol from sugar cane down there! I have never tried the stuff, but it's supposedly lethal shit, from what I've read.

Sugar cane won't grow in every state in the US, of course. But the states that can grow it really need to start.

[jhale667]

Yep. And of course they also put it in their Coca Cola where it belongs. Hell, they even make alcohol from sugar cane down there! I have never tried the stuff, but it's supposedly lethal shit, from what I've read.

Sugar cane won't grow in every state in the US, of course. But the states that can grow it really need to start.

Like yesterday...

[Nickdfresh]

Don't the Brazilians produce their ethanol from sugar, which is waaaaaay cheaper than from corn - which due to the corn lobby - is the only type the US is pursuing?

Admittedly I'm not the biggest fan of ethanol gas, at least the way its formulated. A lot of people are using additives with it because it can lose some lubricity in cars, and especially small engines...

[Blaze]

Just a thought....

That clip on the "Tar Sands"....just a heads up....it is not tar...look up what tar is....any organization that portrays it as such is not valid...so by default either is their opinion.

It is easy to attack Canada on it...because you don't die or end up in Jail.

Do some research on Eithical (sp) oil....lots of dirty and bloody oil from many countries the US imports from....and I do not mean the Middle East either.

Tar (disambiguation)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_(disambiguation)

~

IPCC Third Assessment Report (TAR)
1. What makes the climate change?
2. How is climate changing and how has it changed in the past?
3. How is the climate going to change in the future?
4. What impacts of climate change have already been observed?
5. What impacts are expected in the future?
6. How do people adapt to climate change?
7. What are the current trends in greenhouse gas emissions?
8. What actions can be taken to reduce greenhouse gas emissions?
9. How can governments create incentives for mitigation?
10. Conclusion

Current warming trends are unequivocal. It is very likely that greenhouse gases released by human activities are responsible for most of the warming observed in the past fifty years. The warming is projected to continue and to increase over the course of the 21st century and beyond.

Climate change already has a measurable impact on many natural and human systems. Effects are projected to increase in the future and to be more severe with greater increases in temperature. Adaptation measures are already being implemented, and will be essential in order to address the projected consequences. There is, however, a limit to adaptation; mitigation measures will also be needed in order to reduce the severity of impacts.

Mitigation measures that aim to reduce greenhouse gas emissions can help avoid, reduce or delay many impacts of climate change. Policy instruments could create incentives for producers and consumers to significantly invest in products, technologies and processes which emit less greenhouse gases. Without new mitigation policies, global greenhouse gas emissions will continue to grow over the coming decades and beyond. Rapid world-wide investments and deployment of mitigation technologies, as well as research into new energy sources will be necessary to achieve a stabilization of the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

Additional research addressing gaps in knowledge would further reduce uncertainties and thus facilitate decision-making related to climate change.
Source (http://www.greenfacts.org/en/climate-change-ar4/index.htm)
http://www.history.navy.mil/pics/jack-tar-jake.gif
^Jack Tar^

[Blaze]

a clueless dumbass.

NYSE:WTF


That's how it is.

It is on topic.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Liz-ONBC/LIFE/Other%20Locations/keith-brian_1360232i.jpg
^at The Jack Tar Hotel^ Clearwater, FL 1965



Curbing, culling, and redirecting the oil (energy) industry, as we know it, is on the topic of stopping the flow of dirty money.

[jacksmar]

Bullshit...
http://www.turbinecowboy.com/carstrucksmotorcycles/1967IndyTurbine/


Typical Knicki DeFazio answer. Knicki, were you one of the zoo apes at the Madison rotunda? How's the box lunch on the bus ride? Knicki, would you have jumped in if I was not here?

Anyway,
To simplify again, for the very useful idiots here. Oil is a commodity. Prices are set in the marketplace globally.

Fact: the lower the prices, the less investment will be made, and future prices go up.

Fact: Crude prices are a huge cost of producing gasoline. Exxon buys a huge portion of crude oil to keep their refineries going. When crude prices go up, the refining side suffers. The offset is that the exploration side makes more money.

The Kenyan HouseBoy doesn't realize, (because he can't; Obamanure is wayyyyy to ignorant),is when you focus on the bottom line you lose perspective of what it takes to produce a profit.

Exxon produced a profit and it was reported as bad news. It was on front page of major newspapers and became the lead off story on TV. It should have been reported as good news. Asshole Harry IDidn't Read accused them of profiteering. This while we were paying $4 a gallon for gas.

It's so funny that the collective"dumbass" in the U.S. miss the fact that Exxon shareholders get paid, myself included, after expenses.

The question everyone should be asking is: what happens when it's not profitable to reinvest the democrat BIG government sanctioned profit amount in searching for new oil sources?

You can turn off your pc.

That's how it is.

[jacksmar]

Curbing, culling, and redirecting the oil (energy) industry, as we know it, is on the topic of stopping the flow of dirty money.[/QUOTE]

Blaze,
Just one correction:
NYSE:WFT
Weatherford International

Not WTF as in what are these two guys drinking?

Funny pic.:biggrin:

[FORD]

Well, since we already had the pic of Keef and Brian in this thread, might as well throw in a Stones song on the topic.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2s9HTdUqso

[WACF]

Tar (disambiguation)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_(disambiguation)

~

IPCC Third Assessment Report (TAR)
1. What makes the climate change?
2. How is climate changing and how has it changed in the past?
3. How is the climate going to change in the future?
4. What impacts of climate change have already been observed?
5. What impacts are expected in the future?
6. How do people adapt to climate change?
7. What are the current trends in greenhouse gas emissions?
8. What actions can be taken to reduce greenhouse gas emissions?
9. How can governments create incentives for mitigation?
10. Conclusion

Current warming trends are unequivocal. It is very likely that greenhouse gases released by human activities are responsible for most of the warming observed in the past fifty years. The warming is projected to continue and to increase over the course of the 21st century and beyond.

Climate change already has a measurable impact on many natural and human systems. Effects are projected to increase in the future and to be more severe with greater increases in temperature. Adaptation measures are already being implemented, and will be essential in order to address the projected consequences. There is, however, a limit to adaptation; mitigation measures will also be needed in order to reduce the severity of impacts.

Mitigation measures that aim to reduce greenhouse gas emissions can help avoid, reduce or delay many impacts of climate change. Policy instruments could create incentives for producers and consumers to significantly invest in products, technologies and processes which emit less greenhouse gases. Without new mitigation policies, global greenhouse gas emissions will continue to grow over the coming decades and beyond. Rapid world-wide investments and deployment of mitigation technologies, as well as research into new energy sources will be necessary to achieve a stabilization of the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

Additional research addressing gaps in knowledge would further reduce uncertainties and thus facilitate decision-making related to climate change.
Source (http://www.greenfacts.org/en/climate-change-ar4/index.htm)
http://www.history.navy.mil/pics/jack-tar-jake.gif
^Jack Tar^

Yeah I fucked up the spelling on ethical...I caught it too late.

But...back to point...that clip on tar sands oil is fucked.

Also...the point on ethical oil...not many want to touch it.
The oil sands are not the dirtiest oil on earth...by far amongst the most labour/worker friendly.
Living wages, Health and Saftey laws and officers....and Unions are allowed to operate....no beheadings in Fort Mac for organizing or refusing unsafe work!

Lucky for the activists for hire they are in Canada so it's easy to pick on.


Just an example of the shit that goes on with special interests groups that pretend to care...
http://archive.citycaucus.com/2010/10/north-vancouver-mom-exposes-us-millions-for-oil-sands-activism

[BITEYOASS]

Frankly I blame this whole Oil Shale BS on the Conservative dipshits from both the USA and Canada. We need alternative energy ASAP! I just hope the right geographic locations are utilized for the appropriate means of obtaining this energy such as: Geothermal for areas with known volcanic activity, Solar power plants located in the desert and wind turbines on farmland with gusty winds (Nebraska). Do that and the maximum potential will be realized.

[FORD]

Frankly I blame this whole Oil Shale BS on the Conservative dipshits from both the USA and Canada. We need alternative energy ASAP! I just hope the right geographic locations are utilized for the appropriate means of obtaining this energy such as: Geothermal for areas with known volcanic activity, Solar power plants located in the desert and wind turbines on farmland with gusty winds (Nebraska). Do that and the maximum potential will be realized.

Sounds so simple, doesn't it. Of course the reason why it doesn't happen is just as simple......

Nobody can own the sun, the wind, or a volcano. And predatory capitalism can't allow the existence of energy when they can't monopolize the source. Hell, they even fight against electric cars, even though you would have to plug them in and pay for the electricity (at least until everyone has a home based wind and/or solar based charging station set up)

[jhale667]

What happened to when Americans wanted the next technology, the next energy source - to be on the cutting edge of everything? Weren't we supposed to have fazers and flying cars by now? WTF?

[FORD]

What happened?

50 years of the BCE/KKKoch Brothers/Oil industry controlling everything.

It's pretty goddamn pathetic when you consider that 30 years ago, bicycles and rickshaws were still the most common form of transportation in China. Now they have bullet trains and are making solar panels. While corporate America wants to keep us trapped in the 19th century technology of the petroleum burning engine. :(

[MUSICMANN]

You guys are predictably short sighted. While yes, oil companies do make outlandish profits, by dropping the use of oil all together, would cause even more unemployment and send this country into even more of a tailspin than it already is, which is happening as we speak. The first thing that needs to be done is get this country's dependency off of foreign oil, by drilling and producing our own oil. The second thing is to start weening ourselves off of our own oil needs for a much cleaner full source all the while creating jobs for those that make their living in the oil industry. Look, i live in Louisiana and own a business that sells high pressure pumps and component's to the petroleum and rental industry. I talk to oil and gas folks everyday who are hurting because the president has forced so much regulation on drilling and would rather cater to the EPA and special interest groups than allow a pipeline to be built that would put thousands of people to work. The trickle down affect from the Obama policies to the so called Corporate America/evil oil guys to the companies that hire the people to work not only offshore but on inland rigs to the rental companies down to my own business is seeing such a dramatic down turn in sales and margins is shameful. Were talking about business's that have about 20 to 30 employee's shutting down and all of them losing their jobs. While yes, the suits are making buttloads of money, when they are allowed to do their thing and drill, they are in turn putting millions of people to work that can make a great life for themselves and their families.

It's nice to sit around and talk about all this green this or that, but to put the cart before the horse, is downright shortsighted and unrealistic.The president and a whole lot of people in this country just don't understand, that a guy living under a bridge can't offer you a job. People that have stuck their necks out and took a chance in whatever business and have become rich, deserve everything they have and are willing to expand their companies and hire more people, but only if they don't feel threatened that the government is gonna come in and tax the shit out of them or come down with some type of stupid regulation or policy. The more money they make the more raises and bonus's employee's earn and in turn the more their wealth grows which keeps the economy moving and growing.

Oil companies are not evil, what is though, is not letting our own American companies drill and show those sand pricks that we don't need their oil, they can fuck off. It's time to put American 's back to work, and tell anyone who want's big government and a hand out to shove it. It's also time to for those union dumbass's to understand that you can't pay people $50.00 an hr. plus $20.00 to $30.00 more in benefit's until they fucking die and expect not to go broke and then have taxpayers bail their ass's out. It's time to not give out loans to those that are a high risk and move them into a renter's state of mind. It's time to throw out all this political correctness crap and tell it like it is, the truth is the truth, deal with it. America is in need of change and a reawakening and that won't come from any president no matter who they are. It will only come from us, the people, ourselves.

[FORD]

I can't believe that anybody who lives in Louisiana (or anywhere else on the Gulf Coast) could possibly defend the fucked up practice of "offshore drilling" after the BP ecological massacre.

What that disgusting event proved is that oil should never be drilled off shore anywhere. Not the Gulf, not the Arctic, not even the artificially created bass pond next to Chimpy's pig ranch in Crawford (where I actually had the best day of fishing of my life when I was a kid, long before the BCE owned the place)

If there's some places where oil can be drilled on land in this country, without fucking up the water table or doing any other large scale environmental damage, then yeah, that should be considered. But not as a long term strategy. This toxic industry needs to be broken up and not controlled by 5 fucking multinational greedy bastard corporations.

And as I said earlier, other petroleum based shit, like plastics need to either be made from cleaner renewable sources, or eliminated altogether for the original glass or metal packages.

[MUSICMANN]

I can't believe that anybody who lives in Louisiana (or anywhere else on the Gulf Coast) could possibly defend the fucked up practice of "offshore drilling" after the BP ecological massacre.

What that disgusting event proved is that oil should never be drilled off shore anywhere. Not the Gulf, not the Arctic, not even the artificially created bass pond next to Chimpy's pig ranch in Crawford (where I actually had the best day of fishing of my life when I was a kid, long before the BCE owned the place)

If there's some places where oil can be drilled on land in this country, without fucking up the water table or doing any other large scale environmental damage, then yeah, that should be considered. But not as a long term strategy. This toxic industry needs to be broken up and not controlled by 5 fucking multinational greedy bastard corporations.

And as I said earlier, other petroleum based shit, like plastics need to either be made from cleaner renewable sources, or eliminated altogether for the original glass or metal packages.


First, the spill wasn't as bad as the media portrayed. All it did was slowed down the shrimping industry/restaurants for about 6 months and pretty much everyone that was affected was getting monthly payments from BP until it was cleaned up. So to use that excuse to not drill anywhere and everywhere to get this country off foreign oil as a solid first step is being shortsighted. Like i said, some of you want to put the cart before the horse. If you just drop the use of petroleum in plastics, how many people who work in those plants will lose their jobs, pretty much all of them. Don't get me wrong, i am all for new ideas and all that, but there has to be millions of new jobs created for all those that will ultimately be affected. You can't just throw out the old and the very next day bring in the new without bringing this country to it's knees with even more unemployment than what we have now. You have to get people working and get this country turned around and then gradually move into new and cleaner energy sources.

[Nitro Express]

You pretty much described the problem Ford but it's hard to regulate industries that own both political parties and most the politicians. Both big oil and banking not only deregulated themselves but they use the regulatory agencies to harass their competition or anyone who gets in their way. The regulatory agencies right now are a big joke because they are bought and paid for by who they should be regulating. So more regulation doesn't help the average person when this is the situation. You are just giving a bunch of crooks in Washington permission to steal, cheat, and rape some more.

[Nitro Express]

First, the spill wasn't as bad as the media portrayed. All it did was slowed down the shrimping industry/restaurants for about 6 months and pretty much everyone that was affected was getting monthly payments from BP until it was cleaned up. So to use that excuse to not drill anywhere and everywhere to get this country off foreign oil as a solid first step is being shortsighted. Like i said, some of you want to put the cart before the horse. If you just drop the use of petroleum in plastics, how many people who work in those plants will lose their jobs, pretty much all of them. Don't get me wrong, i am all for new ideas and all that, but there has to be millions of new jobs created for all those that will ultimately be affected. You can't just throw out the old and the very next day bring in the new without bringing this country to it's knees with even more unemployment than what we have now. You have to get people working and get this country turned around and then gradually move into new and cleaner energy sources.

It's the same with getting all the people we have on welfare off of it. You just can't pull the rug from underneath people who were raised that way. It would freak them out. So you have to have a long-term plan to systematically wing them off the dole and get them into a working situation and sell them on the concept of owning something of their own for a change and laying the groundwork for that to be possible. The problem is we have a failed government that no longer does any long-term planning. It can't even make a five year budget. Everyone is in for the short-term buck and the hell with everyone else and any long-term community goals. That's the problem. Everyone is out for themselves in reality even when they blab out some we the people bullshit.

[FORD]

The people making plastic bottles couldn't make glass bottles? That's a lame excuse.

And as I said, if they insist on making them out of plastic, then make the plastic from something other than petroleum.

Legalize hemp. Start growing the shit everywhere (and there's very few places it won't grow) and use it to make plastic. And biofuels, for that matter.

All of which would also create jobs.

[Nitro Express]

What happened to when Americans wanted the next technology, the next energy source - to be on the cutting edge of everything? Weren't we supposed to have fazers and flying cars by now? WTF?

Because it's not technology that is holding us back it's the political situation. Politicians no longer issue a challenge and we no longer have anyone like the Russians to outdo. After the Berlin Wall came down the US had this huge military machine to feed and too many people were making big bucks off of it. So we use the military to take over countries sitting on oil or countries where a pipeline supplying China may be built. That's why the US wants to control the Kyber Pass between Afghanistan and Pakistan. That's where the Chinese will have to run a pipeline to Iran through.

It's all about controling the world's flow of oil and having the US Dollar as the oil reserve currency and feeding the military industrial complex. Getting off of oil ruins this power trio that so many people make a lot of money off of. Staggering amounts of money. In fact, it makes the money itself.

[Nitro Express]

The people making plastic bottles couldn't make glass bottles? That's a lame excuse.

And as I said, if they insist on making them out of plastic, then make the plastic from something other than petroleum.

Legalize hemp. Start growing the shit everywhere (and there's very few places it won't grow) and use it to make plastic. And biofuels, for that matter.

All of which would also create jobs.

It's not about creating new products or going back to old ones like glass. The problem is the people in power do what they want and could care less about what you want. They have it figured out. Give the people unlimited choices on unimportant stuff and give them entertainment. Then they consolidate what matters like the media, energy, healthcare, political candidates, political parties, banking, insurance. The boring stuff people who like big tits and football don't care about. They figure the public is so stupid they can do what they damn well please. Has anyone gone to jail for banking or war crimes yet? I mean we have people stealing billions of dollars out in the open, we even know their names and nothing has been done. If you can't throw the president of MF Global in jail well then good luck on the rest of it. We have a rogue government right now and it could cares less about you and it could really care less about the environment.

[FORD]

You pretty much described the problem Ford but it's hard to regulate industries that own both political parties and most the politicians. Both big oil and banking not only deregulated themselves but they use the regulatory agencies to harass their competition or anyone who gets in their way. The regulatory agencies right now are a big joke because they are bought and paid for by who they should be regulating. So more regulation doesn't help the average person when this is the situation. You are just giving a bunch of crooks in Washington permission to steal, cheat, and rape some more.

Just roll the regulations back to the ones that worked. Pretty much everything before the BCE stole the 1980 election. And repeal Shittyzens United, make lobbyists illegal (which would also solve the AIPAC and NRA problems, though thats entirely another thread of discussion), enforce the Sherman anti-trust act, etc.

If we can't actually resurrect Franklin Delano Roosevelt AND his cousin Teddy from the dead, at least we should restore the things they did to save this country.

[MUSICMANN]

It's the same with getting all the people we have on welfare off of it. You just can't pull the rug from underneath people who were raised that way. It would freak them out. So you have to have a long-term plan to systematically wing them off the dole and get them into a working situation and sell them on the concept of owning something of their own for a change and laying the groundwork for that to be possible. The problem is we have a failed government that no longer does any long-term planning. It can't even make a five year budget. Everyone is in for the short-term buck and the hell with everyone else and any long-term community goals. That's the problem. Everyone is out for themselves in reality even when they blab out some we the people bullshit.


It's really about job creation. The more jobs that are made available the more people who are on welfare can be moved into the workforce and actually contribute to society. But this issue is very different than having business's that deal with the oil and petroleum industry getting hammered because drilling has been halted or slowed down to a crawl. The amount of hard working folks that is being affected by the president's policies and the amount of new jobs that could be created by allowing new pipeline's to be built and ran is huge. There's no doubt that, big oil and banking is a virus that needs to be watched to a degree, actually more banking than oil. The things is, like i said, a person who lives under a bridge can't create or offer anyone a job, but at this time, big companies and the rich people who own them can. So until we can get this county off of foreign oil and like you said, actually set forth a long term goal that benefit's every hard working American, we're kinda spinning our wheels right on the edge of a very high cliff.

[Nickdfresh]

Bullshit...
http://www.turbinecowboy.com/carstrucksmotorcycles/1967IndyTurbine/


Typical Knicki DeFazio answer. Knicki, were you one of the zoo apes at the Madison rotunda? How's the box lunch on the bus ride? Knicki, would you have jumped in if I was not here?

Anyway,
To simplify again, for the very useful idiots here. Oil is a commodity. Prices are set in the marketplace globally.

Fact: the lower the prices, the less investment will be made, and future prices go up.

Fact: Crude prices are a huge cost of producing gasoline. Exxon buys a huge portion of crude oil to keep their refineries going. When crude prices go up, the refining side suffers. The offset is that the exploration side makes more money.

The Kenyan HouseBoy doesn't realize, (because he can't; Obamanure is wayyyyy to ignorant),is when you focus on the bottom line you lose perspective of what it takes to produce a profit.

Exxon produced a profit and it was reported as bad news. It was on front page of major newspapers and became the lead off story on TV. It should have been reported as good news. Asshole Harry IDidn't Read accused them of profiteering. This while we were paying $4 a gallon for gas.

It's so funny that the collective"dumbass" in the U.S. miss the fact that Exxon shareholders get paid, myself included, after expenses.

The question everyone should be asking is: what happens when it's not profitable to reinvest the democrat BIG government sanctioned profit amount in searching for new oil sources?

You can turn off your pc.

That's how it is.

Um, are you talking to me? You do realize that gas-turbines are immensely thirsty? Right? Ever check the mileage of an M1A2 Main Battle Tank? It's measured in gallons per mile, you silly goose! :)

[Angel]

My grandfather was an Alberta oil pioneer. I grew up with those assholes. Oilmen care about nothing but the oil. They don't give a shit about their own families for fucks sake. The majority are most definitely evil.

As for employment on new pipelines...temporary. Yes, lots employed to build, but then requires few employees for maintenance. Ask the farmers that just lost their land to a spill on a pipeline what they think of pipelines...

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

[ELVIS]

So, pipelines bad and oil people evil, got it...

LMAO!!


Sent from my iPhone, bitches!

[FORD]

So, pipelines bad and oil people evil, got it...

LMAO!!


Sent from my iPhone, bitches!

The toxic goo and dead animals washing up on the shores of your delta swamp should be enough to tell you that. :(

[Angel]

So, pipelines bad and oil people evil, got it...

LMAO!!


Sent from my iPhone, bitches!

Only an oil man would tell a grieving mother who has just lost her eldest son "I know how you feel, I feel the same way when a well dries up"....

I would prefer to see Canada increase our own refining over exporting.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

[WACF]

Only an oil man would tell a grieving mother who has just lost her eldest son "I know how you feel, I feel the same way when a well dries up"....

I would prefer to see Canada increase our own refining over exporting.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

Yes...I agree.

Another thing going on is shipping raw resources and refining elsewhere.

[Nitro Express]

It's really about job creation. The more jobs that are made available the more people who are on welfare can be moved into the workforce and actually contribute to society. But this issue is very different than having business's that deal with the oil and petroleum industry getting hammered because drilling has been halted or slowed down to a crawl. The amount of hard working folks that is being affected by the president's policies and the amount of new jobs that could be created by allowing new pipeline's to be built and ran is huge. There's no doubt that, big oil and banking is a virus that needs to be watched to a degree, actually more banking than oil. The things is, like i said, a person who lives under a bridge can't create or offer anyone a job, but at this time, big companies and the rich people who own them can. So until we can get this county off of foreign oil and like you said, actually set forth a long term goal that benefit's every hard working American, we're kinda spinning our wheels right on the edge of a very high cliff.

There is an agenda to keep energy expensive. I often wonder if we really do have the technology to make electricity cheap with low pollution. Obama clearly is part of the cabal that wants to control the public by controlling energy. They want to be big daddy and treat us all like a bunch of dumb kids. That's what it boils down to. Make no mistake, Obama works for the energy companies and the fake environmental movements were sponsored by energy companies. It just makes their product more expensive. They make more money because of it and they keep us on a short leash. There is two major areas control freaks want to control: Water and energy. Obama is a control freak who works for bigger control freaks.

[ELVIS]

There is an agenda to keep energy expensive.

the same goes for the failing medical system...

[FORD]

the same goes for the failing medical system...

So would you agree with Thom Hartmann, Mike Malloy, and FORD that neither one should be a "for profit" industry?

[ELVIS]

Not sure...

[Nitro Express]

There is no such thing as a not for profit industry. Sure. Some people will volunteer to work in medicine for free. My dentist is in Peru doing exactly that right now. The thing is you can't pay your bills and support your family on volunteer work unless of course we set up this big sophisticated barter bank but money is more convenient. So the supplies have to be bought and the staff has to be paid for their time and expertise. You can't become a nurse or doctor for free. The university wants to get paid.

I think the problem is not having a for profit industry, it's that too many people want others to pay for it. The problem with the US right now is too many people accept government money and the politicians are using the public treasury to buy massive amounts of votes. Something like 60% of US households get government assistance of some kind. The problem with this country is too many people want a handout. They will vote in whoever gives it to them instead of having some pride in themselves and saying no thanks, I will take care of myself.

Nothing is for free. Nothing. If you take a handout you give your power to the person who gave it to you and they can dictate the terms. This is the problem. You become an owned slave on such a system and you lose the power to vote with your pocket book and you get less choices. Yeah if you are down and out and really need the help take it but get off of it when you don't need it. Too many people playing the system and it's unsustainable.

What has happened to medicine along with education is they have had skyrocketing costs due to corruption in the system. The politicians went from doing all they could to make college affordable to making it the gateway to debtor slavery. What happened to medicine as Elvis has said the insurance companies and pharmacutical companies started overcharging because they politically could get away with it. Go to India and buy the same services and stuff and see how much cheaper it is there. What we really need is some anti-trust legislation in the education and medical areas because it's obviously monopoly pricing. Maybe we should get rid of all these student loans and go back to buying education with cash. The same with medicine. It's the insurance and loans that are making things expensive. The money is in issuing the loans and getting the government to pay for the defaults. The money is not in providing the healthcare it's selling the insurance. And gee our so called universal healthcare program came with a mandate to buy the insurance from a few selected insurance companies. Duh. Gee who do you think wrote Obamacare? The insurance industry. The same people the so called legislation was supposed to compete against. All they had to do way hire some liberals and parade them around and call it socialized medicine and most dolts fell for it.

With a public this stupid no wonder the monopoly men are laughing to the bank. Yup. Nothing is for free and people who think it is will continue to get fleeced.

[ELVIS]

Well said, Nitro...


:elvis:

[FORD]

There is no such thing as a not for profit industry. Sure. Some people will volunteer to work in medicine for free. My dentist is in Peru doing exactly that right now. The thing is you can't pay your bills and support your family on volunteer work unless of course we set up this big sophisticated barter bank but money is more convenient. So the supplies have to be bought and the staff has to be paid for their time and expertise. You can't become a nurse or doctor for free. The university wants to get paid.

I'm sure our friends in Canada and the UK (and elsewhere) will correct me here if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard anything about doctors or nurses working for free in countries that have an actual health care system. Of course they get paid. The Universities also get paid. Who does NOT get paid is a bunch of criminal insurance felons who sit around their swimming pools in the Bahamas, counting their feloniously tax-cheated profits, which they did NOTHING to earn, and contribute nothing at all to the purpose of treating/preventing illness or injuries.



I think the problem is not having a for profit industry, it's that too many people want others to pay for it. The problem with the US right now is too many people accept government money and the politicians are using the public treasury to buy massive amounts of votes. Something like 60% of US households get government assistance of some kind. The problem with this country is too many people want a handout. They will vote in whoever gives it to them instead of having some pride in themselves and saying no thanks, I will take care of myself.

And when shit happens, like you suddenly get cancer or MS, or you get run over by a stampeding herd of Buffalo crossing the street in Wyoming, then who takes care of you when taking care of yourself is no longer an option? A national health care system isn't a handout. It's simply fucking sanity.


Nothing is for free. Nothing. If you take a handout you give your power to the person who gave it to you and they can dictate the terms. This is the problem. You become an owned slave on such a system and you lose the power to vote with your pocket book and you get less choices. Yeah if you are down and out and really need the help take it but get off of it when you don't need it. Too many people playing the system and it's unsustainable.

First of all, you're confusing the need for a national health care system with welfare, or unemployment, or whatever. It's not remotely the same thing.


What has happened to medicine along with education is they have had skyrocketing costs due to corruption in the system. The politicians went from doing all they could to make college affordable to making it the gateway to debtor slavery. What happened to medicine as Elvis has said the insurance companies and pharmacutical companies started overcharging because they politically could get away with it. Go to India and buy the same services and stuff and see how much cheaper it is there. What we really need is some anti-trust legislation in the education and medical areas because it's obviously monopoly pricing. Maybe we should get rid of all these student loans and go back to buying education with cash.

So only the rich should be able to go to college? That's a crock of fascist elitist bullshit.



The same with medicine. It's the insurance and loans that are making things expensive. The money is in issuing the loans and getting the government to pay for the defaults. The money is not in providing the healthcare it's selling the insurance. And gee our so called universal healthcare program came with a mandate to buy the insurance from a few selected insurance companies. Duh. Gee who do you think wrote Obamacare? The insurance industry. The same people the so called legislation was supposed to compete against. All they had to do way hire some liberals and parade them around and call it socialized medicine and most dolts fell for it.


Liberals had nothing to do with this horseshit plan. Dennis Kucinich wrote HR 676. Ted Kennedy wrote the Medicare for All bill in 2007. Bernie Sanders wants to bring single payer in on a state by state basis. THESE are the liberal plans. Not this Nixon/Gingrich/Dole/Romney/Heritage Foundation corporate mandate horseshit. Obama didn't run on this. Hillary did, and that's why she lost the nomination.

You admit that the criminal insurance industry is the problem. So why not just take them out of the equation altogether?

[Nitro Express]

You can pay your doctor directly and negotiate price directly or you can pay an insurance company or the government who will pay the doctor. It's all about how the money is channeled. I pay cash and get cash discounts. In fact I negotiated what my daughter's shoulder surgery would cost and got a 25% discount from the doctor and got an 18% discount from the hospital. I didn't even get an insurance company or the government involved and saved money.

I paid cash to get through college. I took zero loans out. Worked my way through.

If you pay cash prices go down. What has made college increase nine times the rate of inflation has been the wide availability of student loans and those kids come out saddled with debt.

In my lifetime the poor always could go to college. It's called getting a job and applying for whatever scholarships you can get and you work your way through. Millions of people have done it. If more people paid cash for school it would be cheaper.

People need to stop taking out loans and stop laying around thinking the government is going to do everything for them. All you become there is a professional voter supporting whatever scumbag politicians feed your kitty.

[Nitro Express]

Liberals had nothing to do with this horseshit plan. Dennis Kucinich wrote HR 676. Ted Kennedy wrote the Medicare for All bill in 2007. Bernie Sanders wants to bring single payer in on a state by state basis. THESE are the liberal plans. Not this Nixon/Gingrich/Dole/Romney/Heritage Foundation corporate mandate horseshit. Obama didn't run on this. Hillary did, and that's why she lost the nomination.

You admit that the criminal insurance industry is the problem. So why not just take them out of the equation altogether?

Obama promoted it and signed it into law. As president he could have vetoed it. Sorry dude but not all the criminals are on the right side of the isle. This blaming one side or the other goes nowhere and solves nothing. The reason these corporations get what they want is too many people like you give the government too much power. Yeah, that really works well when the same corrupt people you point your finger at own most the politicians on both sides of the isle. Not only that congress has lost control of the government. We have government agencies now with their military styled police forces and they make their own laws and regulations with no representation. The managers of these agencies love to tell our congressmen they come and go but they stay in Washington indefinately. Also, it looks like we only have seven US senators that even care about citizens' rights at all.]

So yeah, let's just give this government system more power that will fix things.:umm:

I see what your strategy was. It was to give the insurance companies some low priced competition from the government and let that settle the prices in the free market. I would work but sadly there isn't enough people in the government on our side.

[FORD]

O

I see what your strategy was. It was to give the insurance companies some low priced competition from the government and let that settle the prices in the free market. I would work but sadly there isn't enough people in the government on our side.

That wasn't my strategy. My preferred strategy is using the existing national health care system we already have (Medicare) and opening it up to everyone. Though the "public option" as Howard Dean proposed it would have been the next best thing, which would force the insurance companies to either clean up their act or to go out of business.

It would have been a reasonable compromise.

[ELVIS]

The CBO already said the healthcare costs will be more than double the proposed NINE HUNDRED BILLION !!

The government is only successful at driving the costs of services way way WAY up...

[ELVIS]

Medicare fraud is already through the roof...

So let's expand the system by say, about 20 - 25 times...


No fucking way...

[FORD]

Medicare fraud is already through the roof...

So let's expand the system by say, about 20 - 25 times...


No fucking way...

Well, the solution to that is simple....

Right now you have a bunch of people working for the criminal insurance industry who earn their paychecks by digging up dirt on people, so the corporation can try to weasel their way out of paying off a valid claim.

If everyone was covered by one single payer, there would be no way to get out of paying a legitimate claim, so all these amateur detectives would need something to do. Let them use their snooping skills to find the fraud.

[FORD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUdJTkKO8_w

[WACF]

You guys are predictably short sighted. While yes, oil companies do make outlandish profits, by dropping the use of oil all together, would cause even more unemployment and send this country into even more of a tailspin than it already is, which is happening as we speak. The first thing that needs to be done is get this country's dependency off of foreign oil, by drilling and producing our own oil. The second thing is to start weening ourselves off of our own oil needs for a much cleaner full source all the while creating jobs for those that make their living in the oil industry. Look, i live in Louisiana and own a business that sells high pressure pumps and component's to the petroleum and rental industry. I talk to oil and gas folks everyday who are hurting because the president has forced so much regulation on drilling and would rather cater to the EPA and special interest groups than allow a pipeline to be built that would put thousands of people to work. The trickle down affect from the Obama policies to the so called Corporate America/evil oil guys to the companies that hire the people to work not only offshore but on inland rigs to the rental companies down to my own business is seeing such a dramatic down turn in sales and margins is shameful. Were talking about business's that have about 20 to 30 employee's shutting down and all of them losing their jobs. While yes, the suits are making buttloads of money, when they are allowed to do their thing and drill, they are in turn putting millions of people to work that can make a great life for themselves and their families.

It's nice to sit around and talk about all this green this or that, but to put the cart before the horse, is downright shortsighted and unrealistic.The president and a whole lot of people in this country just don't understand, that a guy living under a bridge can't offer you a job. People that have stuck their necks out and took a chance in whatever business and have become rich, deserve everything they have and are willing to expand their companies and hire more people, but only if they don't feel threatened that the government is gonna come in and tax the shit out of them or come down with some type of stupid regulation or policy. The more money they make the more raises and bonus's employee's earn and in turn the more their wealth grows which keeps the economy moving and growing.

Oil companies are not evil, what is though, is not letting our own American companies drill and show those sand pricks that we don't need their oil, they can fuck off. It's time to put American 's back to work, and tell anyone who want's big government and a hand out to shove it. It's also time to for those union dumbass's to understand that you can't pay people $50.00 an hr. plus $20.00 to $30.00 more in benefit's until they fucking die and expect not to go broke and then have taxpayers bail their ass's out. It's time to not give out loans to those that are a high risk and move them into a renter's state of mind. It's time to throw out all this political correctness crap and tell it like it is, the truth is the truth, deal with it. America is in need of change and a reawakening and that won't come from any president no matter who they are. It will only come from us, the people, ourselves.

Some real good points.

But...

The the thing I can not agree on is wages.

I work in the resource sector.
Union's have saved lives...and benefited non-union workers too.
If you think $50/hr is too much you should follow me around for one of my 12 hr shifts.
Nothing wrong with being paid well considering that companies still are making massive profits...and when you give your working life to that company there is nothing wrong with a pension.
A pension is defered wages...believe me...companies would gladly pay us more per hour if they could get rid of our pension.
The hrs are long...the work hard at times...the conditions can be ugly...I am thankful for my Union.

You want to see what companies are like really...look at Brazillian companies like Vale or Rio Tinto and see what they do to workers in developing nations.
They can not pull that shit in North America or Europe.

So....being well paid helps us, helps the community...and no company is being starved of profit.

[Blaze]

:horn:

This may be changing, thanks to a steer from the G20, which at its summit in Pittsburgh last year, told FATF to get serious about stamping out corruption and plugging the gaps in the regulatory system that allow corrupt politicians to hide behind a veil of corporate secrecy. This must happen if we are to have any hope of stopping billions of dollars from flowing out of the world's poorest countries.

In 2008, Africa received $44bn (£29.5bn) in international aid. In the same year, the continent exported oil and minerals worth $393bn. Many of the poorest countries could lift their populations out of poverty with their natural resource revenues. One of the biggest things stopping them is the willingness of the international financial system to accept looted funds. The flow of corrupt funds into the banks of the developed world is a disaster for the world's poor. Some estimates put this transfer of wealth as high as $40bn a year.

Earlier this month, in a small London court, the sister and the mistress of James Ibori, a Nigerian state governor, were both sentenced to five years in jail for helping him to launder millions of dollars of stolen national funds. Ibori is just one of a number of Nigerian governors accused of using the UK's financial system to hide stolen assets: Diepreye Alamieyeseigha and Joshua Dariye have both had their assets frozen and returned to Nigeria. The former pleaded guilty to money laundering in July 2007, while the latter faces trial in Nigeria.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/25/west-financial-system-dirty-money

The Financial Action Task Force (FATF) is an intergovernmental body that sets international anti-money laundering standards and assesses laws designed to keep dirty money out of the financial system. It meets largely under the radar, but the processes it recommends have major implications for how the world's financial system works. Items on the agenda this week include how to deal with terrorists, drug lords, tax havens and corrupt politicians.
http://www.fatf-gafi.org/

[BigBadBrian]

What happened to when Americans wanted the next technology, the next energy source - to be on the cutting edge of everything? Weren't we supposed to have fazers and flying cars by now? WTF?

That Star Trek convention got you excited, huh? :biggrin:

[BigBadBrian]

So would you agree with Thom Hartmann, Mike Malloy, and FORD that neither one should be a "for profit" industry?

Do you also want to put physicians on a set salary, paid for by the government?

[BigBadBrian]

First of all, you're confusing the need for a national health care system with welfare, or unemployment, or whatever. It's not remotely the same thing.


It's EXACTLY the same thing.

[Nickdfresh]

It's EXACTLY the same thing.

Do you get welfare then? I noticed you claimed to be a retired semen who gets the typical VA benefits....

[jacksmar]

I notice my posts get deleted quite a bit. But anyway Knicki, back on topic.

For the simpletons and unlettered that voted for the Kenyan Houseboy, a simple headline:

"U.S. ethanol production dropped to its lowest level in 10 months last week as dwindling pre-harvest corn stocks crushed profit margins, while a deepening drought in the Midwest threatens to extend the pain into next year. "

So should we use the remaining crop for food or fuel?

This topic is wayyyyyy beyond the understanding of FBHO faithful, especially the cargo by cargo or shipment by shipment agreed pricing structures.

There are so many key factors beyond simple supply and demand like OPEC output and refinery repairs, that impact prices. It too tough for the the useful idiots here to understand.

Have your own ALGoreDay and shut off all your AC, refrigeration, and stay home. In the winter wear a Jimmy Carter sweater, turn off your heat, and stay home. Just stay home and turn off your pc's.

Oil is here to stay beyond your pathetic life spans.

That's how it is.

[Nickdfresh]

I notice my posts get deleted quite a bit. But anyway Knicki, back on topic.

....

I can't delete posts, Jack'ssperm...

[ELVIS]

Dickforbrains has special deleting power...


Sent from my iPhone, bitches!

[jacksmar]

I put up a response about your combat tanks vs a race car comparison. Plymouth developed the turbo charged car with better fuel mileage and engine stability. Granatelli developed a rocket car and merged the technologies. I don't know who knocked the response down and don't care.

There have been many innovations in car and chassis development at Indy. Fuel mileage can be transferred to passenger cars due to the fuel used in Indycar and chassis innovations. Aero packages on passenger cars have improved fuel mileage but due to Congressional mandates and UAW laws regarding passenger car manufacturing it will never get close to optimal at lower speeds or city driving.

The last bailout ensured more gas will be used for years to come than need be. Oil keeps the UAW alive.

That's how it is.

[Nickdfresh]

Dickforbrains has special deleting power...


Sent from my iPhone lodged in my asshole along with my head, bitches!


I wish I could delete your "special" kind of intelligence, but I can't find the button marked "fuckwit."

[Nickdfresh]

I put up a response about your combat tanks vs a race car comparison. Plymouth developed the turbo charged car with better fuel mileage and engine stability. Granatelli developed a rocket car and merged the technologies. I don't know who knocked the response down and don't care.

There have been many innovations in car and chassis development at Indy. Fuel mileage can be transferred to passenger cars due to the fuel used in Indycar and chassis innovations. Aero packages on passenger cars have improved fuel mileage but due to Congressional mandates and UAW laws regarding passenger car manufacturing it will never get close to optimal at lower speeds or city driving.

The last bailout ensured more gas will be used for years to come than need be. Oil keeps the UAW alive.

That's how it is.

Um, why would the UAW give a fuck about gas mileage? Race cars, Indy or otherwise, don't get good fuel economy. There has been a tech transfer from Formula One and Indy to passenger cars such as "paddle shifting," which is gay and in no way compares to the joy of a nice manual syncromesh transaxle...

[Von Halen]

The 8 speed trans in the 2013 Dodge Ram is a dial. A fucking dial! http://www.allpar.com/model/ram/2013-ram.html

Oil keeps the world alive. All the green fuckers want to talk about is the liquid gas and oil burned in cars. But just about everything manufactured, that isn't edible, requires petroleum products of one form or another.

"Green" is somewhat of a scam. Battery powered vehicles are a total scam.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

i'm curious to know how much the electric bill at home has gone up for chevy volt owners

[FORD]

http://www.allpar.com/photos/ram/2013/shifter.jpg

That's some crazy shit....

My grandpa used to have a car that had push button transmission when I was a kid. Can't remember what kind of car it was, but I don't remember him ever driving anything that wasn't a Ford or GM product. He definitely never owned a foreign car. I remember thinking (and I was probably about 7 or 8 at the time, and didn't even understand what a transmission really was) how dumb that was that you would shift gears like you were changing radio stations.

[jacksmar]

There's nothing gay about paddle shifters Knicki other than people like you don't know to use them.

First: Ford Automotive have been developing direct-injection twin-turbocharged 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6 engines. Fuel economy is 8% higher.

And as a commie lib democrat you're correct about the UAW and fuel economy. They don't care just as long as NON UNION people bailed their useless asses out.

Oil and the UAW are to blame for the types of cars we drive. If in the 70's we had pushed both aside the fuel economy on cars would be much higher.

There is soooooooooooo much difference between an Indycar and a Formula One car that you have no clue about and would be best not to comment. You're out of your league, stay with NASCAR.

And Formula One did run this year in Bahrain and will run in Abu Dhabi. Why?

O-I-L

That's how it is.

[Von Halen]

Probably could have been any of the American manufacturer's cars. I believe most of them had push buttons at one time or another.

[jacksmar]

By the way Knicki, will I see any of the RothArmy faithful at USGP in Austin this year?

[FORD]

i'm curious to know how much the electric bill at home has gone up for chevy volt owners

Here's a Volt owner in Colliefornia who posted his own electric bill. Looks like it cost him about $20 a month. Of course, his sampled bill was in January, so it may vary in other months.

http://www.mychevroletvolt.com/first-chevy-volt-electricity-bill-pge

[Von Halen]

There's nothing gay about paddle shifters Knicki other than people like you don't know to use them.

First: Ford Automotive have been developing direct-injection twin-turbocharged 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6 engines. Fuel economy is 8% higher.

And as a commie lib democrat you're correct about the UAW and fuel economy. They don't care just as long as NON UNION people bailed their useless asses out.

Oil and the UAW are to blame for the types of cars we drive. If in the 70's we had pushed both aside the fuel economy on cars would be much higher.

There is soooooooooooo much difference between an Indycar and a Formula One car that you have no clue about and would be best not to comment. You're out of your league, stay with NASCAR.

And Formula One did run this year in Bahrain and will run in Abu Dhabi. Why?

O-I-L

That's how it is.

The paddle shifters are a decent novelty. But I'd much rather bang the gears on a good old fashioned stick shift. With a clutch, I might add.

Rumor on the streets of Detroit is, the EcoBoost engine is experiencing overheating issues when towing. Personally, I think when the bugs are worked out, it will be badass. Love to see the same concept on a V8. Fuck fuel economy. I am for POWER!

The UAW and GOVERNMENT are to blame for the 70's, and what has gone on since. Do you really believe the guys in Washington aren't interested in the money the oil business generates? That they aren't lining their own pockets? That it's not political as to why we are not tapping into the oil that North America is sitting on? We have so much oil under us, we could tell the foriegners to fuck off. That is not in the best interest of the politicians, or we'd have already done it.

Formula One cars and their technology are light years ahead of Indycar. Not even close. Fortunately as I said earlier, I prefer power. That's why I pay more attention to the fire breathing 8000 horsepower Top Fuel vehicles.

[Von Halen]

Here's a Volt owner in Colliefornia who posted his own electric bill. Looks like it cost him about $20 a month. Of course, his sampled bill was in January, so it may vary in other months.

http://www.mychevroletvolt.com/first-chevy-volt-electricity-bill-pge

And once these things are plugged in all over America, and everywhere else, where are we going to get the power to supply the electricity needed to charge them? Build more power plants? Of what Variety? Nuclear? Coal fired? We sure as hell can't supply juice to all these cars with our current power plant infrastructure.

How much more pollution is going to be generated by using even more electricity than we do now?

It is 6 of one, half dozen of the other. A fucking scam to keep lining politicians pockets. They are just figuring out new ways to go about it.

[ELVIS]

I can't find the button marked "fuckwit."

Right on your forehead...

[PETE'S BROTHER]

And once these things are plugged in all over America, and everywhere else, where are we going to get the power to supply the electricity needed to charge them? Build more power plants? Of what Variety? Nuclear? Coal fired? We sure as hell can't supply juice to all these cars with our current power plant infrastructure.

How much more pollution is going to be generated by using even more electricity than we do now?

It is 6 of one, half dozen of the other. A fucking scam to keep lining politicians pockets. They are just figuring out new ways to go about it.

this is kinda what i'm thinkin'. az could have a hybrid in every driveway, but will that just dry up the colorado river in 6 months?

[jacksmar]

It's just a preference for me actually. When I went from the paddle shifter on the kart to a formula Ford the manual "stick" shifter was hard to get used to again.
I like horsepower too. It's sad the cars at Indy were faster and better balanced in 1992 than the DW12 Chevy powered of 2012.

The only reason I said the UAW and OIL in the 70's was because Nixon wanted the UAW to get him elected and he played both sides of the issue with OPEC. Ultimately, the US made passenger car was shit for a number of years. Remember the 1976 Ford Mustang? A Pinto on a different chassis.

Oil will run the US and capitalism for years beyond my life span.

That's how it is.

[FORD]

And once these things are plugged in all over America, and everywhere else, where are we going to get the power to supply the electricity needed to charge them? Build more power plants? Of what Variety? Nuclear? Coal fired? We sure as hell can't supply juice to all these cars with our current power plant infrastructure.

How much more pollution is going to be generated by using even more electricity than we do now?

It is 6 of one, half dozen of the other. A fucking scam to keep lining politicians pockets. They are just figuring out new ways to go about it.

Yeah, definitely an upgrade to the power grid would be required, if electric cars are going to be the norm.

Or better still, take them off the grid entirely. It shouldn't be that difficult to build a self-contained home charging station, either solar or wind powered (depending on which one works better in your local climate.) A commercial version of these charging stations could be implemented at hotel and motel chains, for when you're on the road.

[jacksmar]

TARD,
They don't come off the grid for a reason. Measured service. Similar law: http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/90.536
Who wrote this?

WiTricity is working with Audi for auto charging but stations will remain on the grid. Solar and wind powered charging stations are too unreliable.
Back to the topic.......

You won't replace oil anytime soon. Don't think it will ever happen as long as there is a military to keep ready, a government that needs to run way past lights out, and a bunch a selfish assholes that keep getting paid every time you flick a light switch. By the way, thanks for the checks.

That's how it is.

[Nickdfresh]

Right on your forehead...

Maybe your wife can hit it after sitting on my face?

[Nickdfresh]

...

The only reason I said the UAW and OIL in the 70's was because Nixon wanted the UAW to get him elected and he played both sides of the issue with OPEC. Ultimately, the US made passenger car was shit for a number of years. Remember the 1976 Ford Mustang? A Pinto on a different chassis.

...

The UAW doesn't design cars, it was the typical attitude of the big three that small, economical cars were cheap starter cars and didn't need to last nor require much R&D. That's why the Japanese handed them their asses...

[FORD]

TARD,
They don't come off the grid for a reason. Measured service. Similar law: http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/90.536
Who wrote this?

WiTricity is working with Audi for auto charging but stations will remain on the grid. Solar and wind powered charging stations are too unreliable.


I'm not sure how quoting a subsection of the state of Oregon's Landlord/Tenant law has any relevance to a self-contained solar/wind charging station for electric cars, but I guess your employers in the KKKoch Brothers call center only have so many canned responses to support their talking points.



Back to the topic.......

You won't replace oil anytime soon. Don't think it will ever happen as long as there is a military to keep ready, a government that needs to run way past lights out, and a bunch a selfish assholes that keep getting paid every time you flick a light switch. By the way, thanks for the checks.

That's how it is.

And as long as idiots like yourself continue to tell yourself that, and vote in morons who act on those policies because they personally profit from them (BCE) then that's how it will be.

But as a great man, Robert Francis Kennedy once said, "Some men see things as they are and say, 'Why'? I dream of things that never were and say, 'Why not'?"

Why not, indeed?

[WACF]

And once these things are plugged in all over America, and everywhere else, where are we going to get the power to supply the electricity needed to charge them? Build more power plants? Of what Variety? Nuclear? Coal fired? We sure as hell can't supply juice to all these cars with our current power plant infrastructure.

How much more pollution is going to be generated by using even more electricity than we do now?

It is 6 of one, half dozen of the other. A fucking scam to keep lining politicians pockets. They are just figuring out new ways to go about it.

California's coal plants are dirtier than the Oil Sands...but we always hear about dirty Canadian oil.

For some reason many do not want to think about it.

Winds farms use generators to keep the turbines turning on some days....solar and wind farms are being heavily subsidized by governemnts in Europe and in some cases abandoned.

In some places it works...in many it does not.

In cold climates those battery cars will not work...you need an engine to generate heat...

[FORD]

In cold climates those battery cars will not work...you need an engine to generate heat...

That could well be a problem.... but just as they have "engine block warmers" in many newer vehicles, there could be a "battery block warmer" in the electric cars, also powered by the same solar/wind charging stations. This technology may well take a while to perfect, but hybrids would still be a step in the right direction for such people. Even if you had to burn petroleum and/or biofuels for the winter months, you could still go emission free the other half of the year.

If you live someplace where it's colder longer than that, you're probably traveling by dog sled half the time anyway.

[jhale667]

But as a great man, Robert Francis Kennedy once said, "Some men see things as they are and say, 'Why'? I dream of things that never were and say, 'Why not'?"

Why not, indeed?

Kennedy was actually quoting George Bernard Shaw there, but totaly agree...

[WACF]

That could well be a problem.... but just as they have "engine block warmers" in many newer vehicles, there could be a "battery block warmer" in the electric cars, also powered by the same solar/wind charging stations. This technology may well take a while to perfect, but hybrids would still be a step in the right direction for such people. Even if you had to burn petroleum and/or biofuels for the winter months, you could still go emission free the other half of the year.

If you live someplace where it's colder longer than that, you're probably traveling by dog sled half the time anyway.

Hybrids are more the right step...but overall I need something to pull my camper.

The thing with cold climates are here on the prairies...you can't always plug in...plus you need the heat off the engine to keep windows clear and your fingers intact.

Biofuels also suck.

Lower octane and bad ecomomy.

We tried Bio Diesel underground in our mining equipment and it was terrible.

[Nickdfresh]

...

Biofuels also suck.

Lower octane and bad ecomomy.

We tried Bio Diesel underground in our mining equipment and it was terrible.

Biodiesel doesn't suck, but it is the last thing you should put in construction or industrial type equipment...

[WACF]

Biodiesel doesn't suck, but it is the last thing you should put in construction or industrial type equipment...

Or Semi's...driver's that go south hate it.

[Angel]

Or Semi's...driver's that go south hate it.

By the way, WACF...I can't seem to get back to it on Tapatalk, but you previously said something about Canadian mining companies paying well, keeping workers safe,etc.

Are you aware that 75% of the mines in third-world countries are owned by Cdn companies? They pay shit and their workers are not protected...

[WACF]

By the way, WACF...I can't seem to get back to it on Tapatalk, but you previously said something about Canadian mining companies paying well, keeping workers safe,etc.

Are you aware that 75% of the mines in third-world countries are owned by Cdn companies? They pay shit and their workers are not protected...

Yes I am.

Alot of them are only Canadian registered though.
There are some bad ones based in Canada though...and they do not operate in Canada.

The United Steelworkers are working to expose them.

Also...there is a bill tabled in the House Of Commons to make Canadian registered companies legally responsible under Canadian law for thier actions globaly too...hope to hell it passes.

Companies take advantage of local governments in other countries...buys offs...buy governments to pass laws in the companies favour.

That is part of the reason Brazilian companies like Vale and Rio Tinto are having problems here...they are not used to stricter laws and a unionized educated work force.

Right now there is a campaign to hopefully cause Rio Tinto to lose the contract to make the Olympic medals...based on thier labour practices.

http://www.usw.ca/media/news/releases?id=0778


EDIT

Just found this link...looks like a victory!

I was in Toronto for a USW mining conference in June...this was a big topic and it is a victory for the community.\
Glad to see it is now resolved!

http://www.justiceforriotintoworkers.ca/

[PETE'S BROTHER]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/07/11/20120711cave-creek-electric-car-chargers-installed.html

[Satan]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/07/11/20120711cave-creek-electric-car-chargers-installed.html

Good news, but the article fails to mention the source of the chargers electricity. Hopefully they are solar? It's Arizona, for Hell's sake, so they better be!

[gbranton]

Biodiesel doesn't suck, but it is the last thing you should put in construction or industrial type equipment...

Biodiesel made from corn DOES suck. It sucks because it drives up food prices (especially during a drought like some states are currently suffering) and because there are other ways to manufacture biodiesel from non-foodstock materials that seem to be getting 0.00% attention from the Federal government, such as microdiesel. Personally I think microdiesel could be the future, in particular the research being done to manufacture petroleum using genetically modified e-coli bacteria.

[Satan]

They should just make it from hemp. The e-coli idea sounds interesting, but the concept of having huge amounts of biotoxin stored up (to make fuel) obviously has potential for some truly fucked up unintended consequences. Or intended, if you want to take the Alex Jones view of everything.

[Nickdfresh]

Biodiesel made from corn DOES suck. It sucks because it drives up food prices (especially during a drought like some states are currently suffering) and because there are other ways to manufacture biodiesel from non-foodstock materials that seem to be getting 0.00% attention from the Federal government, such as microdiesel. Personally I think microdiesel could be the future, in particular the research being done to manufacture petroleum using genetically modified e-coli bacteria.

Very little biodiesel is from corn, that shit is going to gas in the form of ethanol. Biodiesel is mostly french fry grease oil...

[Von Halen]

My grandpa used to have a car that had push button transmission when I was a kid. Can't remember what kind of car it was, but I don't remember him ever driving anything that wasn't a Ford or GM product. He definitely never owned a foreign car. I remember thinking (and I was probably about 7 or 8 at the time, and didn't even understand what a transmission really was) how dumb that was that you would shift gears like you were changing radio stations.

I was at a cruise the other night, and ran across this 1962 Chrysler Imperial with a pushbutton trans. Man, they just don't make cars with this much character anymore.

[ELVIS]

All Chrysler products of that area had push buttons if they were Torque Flight automatic equipped...

Drag racers of the late 50s early 60s loved them...

Those Chrysler automatics were faster in the quarter than their manual counterparts...


:elvis: