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View Full Version : Broke California OKs funding for high-speed rail line



ELVIS
07-06-2012, 08:11 PM
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) -- California lawmakers approved billions of dollars Friday in construction financing for the initial segment of what would be the nation's first dedicated high-speed rail line connecting Los Angeles and San Francisco.

The state Senate voted 21-16 on a party-line vote after intense lobbying by Gov. Jerry Brown, Democratic leaders and labor groups.

The bill authorizes the state to begin selling $4.5 billion in voter-approved bonds that includes $2.6 billion to build an initial 130-mile stretch of the high-speed rail line in the Central Valley. That will allow the state to collect another $3.2 billion in federal funding that could have been rescinded if lawmakers failed to act Friday.

"The Legislature took bold action today that gets Californians back to work and puts California out in front once again," Brown said in a statement. He later celebrated with Senate President Pro Tem Darrell Steinberg of Sacramento, a fellow Democrat.

Brown pushed for the massive infrastructure project to accommodate expected population growth in the nation's most populous state, which now has 37 million people. He said the project is sorely needed to create jobs in a region with higher-than-average unemployment.

The bill, which passed the state Assembly on Thursday, now heads to Brown for his signature.

The first segment of the line will run from Madera to Bakersfield. The final cost of the completed project from Los Angeles to San Francisco would be $68 billion.

Senate Republicans blasted the decision, citing the state's ongoing budget problems.

"It's unfortunate that the majority would rather spend billions of dollars that we don't have for a train to nowhere than keep schools open and harmless from budget cuts," Sen. Tom Harman, R-Huntington Beach, said in a statement.

Sen. Ted Gaines, R-Granite Bay, said the project would push California over a fiscal cliff.

"It will require endless subsidies and will blast a massive hole into our budget," Gaines said in a statement.

The Bay Area Council, a group of business leaders from the San Francisco Bay and Silicon Valley areas, cheered the vote. The council backed the 2008 statewide bond measure regarding the rail line and had been working to sway legislators in support of the project in recent weeks.

"This is a courageous step forward for California's future," said its president and CEO, Jim Wunderman. "California has grabbed a golden opportunity to build the nation's first high-speed rail system, create the backbone of a new, clean 21st century transportation system and support our future economic growth."

Dan Richard, chairman of the California High-Speed Rail Authority, which is managing the project, said California would have lost billions of dollars in federal aid if the Senate fails to pass the bill before adjourning Friday for a monthlong recess.

Richard said California entered a contract that called for the federal government to provide money for building the Central Valley segment if the state also put up its share.

California was able to secure more federal aid than expected after Florida, Ohio and Wisconsin turned down money.

Before the vote, at least half a dozen Democrats in the 40-member Senate remained opposed, skeptical or uncommitted. Some were concerned about how the vote would impact their political futures, while others were wary about financing and management of the massive project.

One dissenter, Sen. Joe Simitian, D-Palo Alto, said public support had waned for the project, and there were too many questions about financing to complete it.

"Is there additional commitment of federal funds? There is not. Is there additional commitment of private funding? There is not. Is there a dedicated funding source that we can look to in the coming years? There is not," Simitian said.

In recent days, Democratic leaders included more funding to improve existing rail systems in an effort to entice support for the bullet train. The bill now allocates a total of $1.9 billion in bonds for regional rail improvements in Northern and Southern California. The upgrades include electrifying Caltrain, a San Jose-San Francisco commuter line, and improving Metrolink commuter lines in Southern California.


:elvis:

chefcraig
07-06-2012, 08:17 PM
Yeah, this looks like a well thought out plan. :duh::yikes:


http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu287/kpstahmer/BBS/san_andreas.jpg

ELVIS
07-06-2012, 08:21 PM
Maybe they should build a one way high-speed rail out of California that doesn't accept welfare debit cards...

Satan
07-06-2012, 09:13 PM
Earthquake jokes all aside, investing in much needed infrastructure improvements is a Most Unholy decision.

Just imagine if Romney was governor. He'd use that money to build CAR ELEVATORS for his fellow billionaires.

jhale667
07-06-2012, 09:36 PM
The rail system here isn't bad at all...takes balls to ride the subway in L.A. - sure in NY you might get mugged, but never will you have to worry about the whole thing collapsing on your head!

All for investing in the state's infrastructure, personally. It's an investment in the future, FFS - that the state's finances are dire NOW is kind of irrelevant in the overall picture. It's pretty short-sighted to say "nope, let shit crumble". Plus the tens of thousands of jobs the project will create from the construction of it and then running it can't hurt. And as long as earthquake "proofing" measures are taken (building codes are pretty strict for that), high speed rail is where the country should be going anyway...





:guitar:

ELVIS
07-06-2012, 09:36 PM
What's wrong with car elevators ??

Satan
07-06-2012, 09:48 PM
What's wrong with car elevators ??

What's wrong is the fact that somebody has stolen so much money through outright theft and tax evasion that he has to build a fucking garage with more than one floor to hold all of his cars.

Now on the other hand, if your kid has this classic Fisher Price toy garage (with built in car elevator), well that's OK, I guess.....

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3514/3789507919_4e36d0411c_z.jpg

gbranton
07-06-2012, 10:06 PM
Now on the other hand, if your kid has this classic Fisher Price toy garage (with built in car elevator), well that's OK, I guess.....

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3514/3789507919_4e36d0411c_z.jpg

I had one of those, I used to park Hot Wheels inside and land my VertiBird on the roof.

PETE'S BROTHER
07-06-2012, 10:11 PM
The rail system here isn't bad at all...takes balls to ride the subway in L.A. - sure in NY you might get mugged, but never will you have to worry about the whole thing collapsing on your head!

All for investing in the state's infrastructure, personally. It's an investment in the future, FFS - that the state's finances are dire NOW is kind of irrelevant in the overall picture. It's pretty short-sighted to say "nope, let shit crumble". Plus the tens of thousands of jobs the project will create from the construction of it and then running it can't hurt. And as long as earthquake "proofing" measures are taken (building codes are pretty strict for that), high speed rail is where the country should be going anyway...





:guitar:

japan's weren't shitty

Va Beach VH Fan
07-06-2012, 10:13 PM
The infrastructure in this country needs updating, especially the bridges....

But I'm sure if another bridge collapses like it did in MN, that'll be Obama's fault too....

PETE'S BROTHER
07-06-2012, 10:14 PM
The infrastructure in this country needs updating, especially the bridges....

But I'm sure if another bridge collapses like it did in MN, that'll be Obama's fault too....

shit, i'm sure some blame him for riverbanks not bein' high enough to stop flooding

Satan
07-06-2012, 10:18 PM
The infrastructure in this country needs updating, especially the bridges....

But I'm sure if another bridge collapses like it did in MN, that'll be Obama's fault too....

It's amazing that Pawlenty even has a snowball's chance in my front yard of being Mittens' running mate after that disaster. Of course if it weren't for that, he wouldn't really be known for anything at all.

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 12:59 AM
Mittens and Paws ??

Nickdfresh
07-07-2012, 10:13 AM
It's funny when hicks like Elvis believe we should behind the rest of the industrialized world in infrastructure development...

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 10:26 AM
What's a high speed train gonna do in California, get the illegals and the welfare bums like asshale to the welfare office and emergence rooms quicker on the taxpayer dime ??

But mark my words...

This project is going to turn into the most bloated construction project in California history and will be prohibitively expensive to ride...If it's ever completed...

BTW, the trains are made in China...

jhale667
07-07-2012, 10:37 AM
welfare bums like asshale

That offer to compare resumes is still open fucktard... believe me you lose.



And what's an "emergence" room, idiot? :biggrin:

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 10:39 AM
A taco, I mean typo..

jhale667
07-07-2012, 10:52 AM
You're just jealous because you can't put high speed rail in a swamp... :biggrin:

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 10:56 AM
You should see the huge new toll bridges over the swamp to get the oilfield equipment in and out of the Gulf...

I drove down there late last night...

jhale667
07-07-2012, 11:01 AM
Nice. To answer your question about what it'd do for CA, how about for starters massively cutting down on commuter traffic -and by getting those thousands of cars off the road every day, helping the environment?

gbranton
07-07-2012, 11:13 AM
Nice. To answer your question about what it'd do for CA, how about for starters massively cutting down on commuter traffic -and by getting those thousands of cars off the road every day, helping the environment?

If it would actually serve that purpose I would be all for it but I don't think it will.

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 11:14 AM
Helping the environment is hardly a reason to spend money on a hugely expensive train when there is no money...

gbranton
07-07-2012, 11:17 AM
Ok, I meant I'd be all for it IF the money existed.

jhale667
07-07-2012, 11:19 AM
If it would actually serve that purpose I would be all for it but I don't think it will.

How wouldn't it? In L.A. alone Metro ridership is up like 300% in the past few years, especially with gas prices as they are. The train to Hollywood and Downtown is usually full.

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 11:22 AM
This is like if jhale borrowed money to finance a super expensive bus to commute people who are looking for work from one Taco Bell to another when there are no job openings at any of them...

But hey, it's helping the environment...


:biggrin:

jhale667
07-07-2012, 11:34 AM
What the fuck is it with you and Taco Bell, weirdo?? Uh, how about all the people that are already employed and commuting daily, asshat? So, you're really going to sit in Louisiana and declare it a bad idea because of your uninformed perception of what the need is, or will be in the future?

Nickdfresh
07-07-2012, 11:52 AM
What's a high speed train gonna do in California, get the illegals and the welfare bums like asshale to the welfare office and emergence rooms quicker on the taxpayer dime ??

But mark my words...

This project is going to turn into the most bloated construction project in California history and will be prohibitively expensive to ride...If it's ever completed...

BTW, the trains are made in China...

Where does it say they were made in China?

PETE'S BROTHER
07-07-2012, 12:16 PM
wisconsin's were gonna be from spain, i think

Nickdfresh
07-07-2012, 12:20 PM
NY's are from Bombardier (Canada) and another company...

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 12:26 PM
Why do they need a super expensive train if they are commuting now ??

Most people will chose to stay in their cars where they have considerably more freedom and don't want to be harassed by the TSA...

And you must know there will be TSA checkpoints before boarding the train...

jhale667
07-07-2012, 12:29 PM
Why do they need a super expensive train if they are commuting now ??

Most people will chose to stay in their cars where they have considerably more freedom and don't want to be harassed by the TSA...

And you must know there will be TSA checkpoints before boarding the train...


You sir, are a paranoid fucktard. There are guards at the stations, but it's not like the fucking airport, FFS. But I'll take a 15-minute train ride nonstop over sitting in bumper to bumper traffic for an hour any day.

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 12:34 PM
NY's are from Bombardier (Canada) and another company...

Bombardier just signed a deal to build trains for the next 10 years in China, and they have been in past trouble for defective parts made in China...

ashstralia
07-07-2012, 12:42 PM
aah, all that aussie coal and iron ore making the world a better place...

smell that son? money.

BITEYOASS
07-07-2012, 12:45 PM
Well for one thing the high-speed rail will keep asshole drivers and poor people driving disintegrating cars off the road. Would ELVIS feel better about a freeway overpass collapsing during an earthquake instead, not to mention highways collapsing near the fault line?

Satan
07-07-2012, 12:48 PM
Well for one thing the high-speed rail will keep asshole drivers and poor people driving disintegrating cars off the road. Would ELVIS feel better about a freeway overpass collapsing during an earthquake instead, not to mention highways collapsing near the fault line?

Why not? He was perfectly fine with levees collapsing (due to neglect) and thousands of (mostly black) people drowning in his own back yard.

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 12:49 PM
I'd rather bee in a car rather than trapped in a train during an earthquake...

PETE'S BROTHER
07-07-2012, 12:52 PM
bio diesel trains could refuel at each taco bell

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 01:01 PM
:biggrin:

ashstralia
07-07-2012, 01:08 PM
bee in a car

i had one of those big motherfucker huntsman spiders drop into my lap once at highway speed, off the sun visor.

that's a character building experience, i can tell you.

gbranton
07-07-2012, 01:11 PM
Why not? He was perfectly fine with levees collapsing (due to neglect) and thousands of (mostly black) people drowning in his own back yard.

Uhhhhh. No. I know that's the impression given on MSNBC or wherever, but the FACTS are a little different. Of the 818 fatalities in which race could be determined, 55% were black, 40% white, not what I'd call "mostly black". Now age is another story altogether, 85% were more than 51 years of age and almost half were older than 75.

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf/2009/08/answers_are_scarce_in_study_of.html?mobRedir=false

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 01:52 PM
i had one of those big motherfucker huntsman spiders drop into my lap once at highway speed, off the sun visor.

that's a character building experience, i can tell you.

I had one in my motorcycle helmet and got stung on the neck and a flat front tire all at the same time...

It was a bad day, especially pushing my bike home...

True story...


:elvis:

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 01:54 PM
Uhhhhh. No. I know that's the impression given on MSNBC or wherever, but the FACTS are a little different. Of the 818 fatalities in which race could be determined, 55% were black, 40% white, not what I'd call "mostly black". Now age is another story altogether, 85% were more than 51 years of age and almost half were older than 75.

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf/2009/08/answers_are_scarce_in_study_of.html?mobRedir=false

My brother is a home health nurse in New Orleans East and nearly half of his patients died...

Nickdfresh
07-07-2012, 05:15 PM
Why do they need a super expensive train if they are commuting now ??

Most people will chose to stay in their cars where they have considerably more freedom and don't want to be harassed by the TSA...

And you must know there will be TSA checkpoints before boarding the train...

I recently took a train from Buffalo to Albany, there was no TSA and it was kind of cool being able to drink booze, get work done, and nod off when it takes me four-and-a-half hours to drive there and just over five (usually) on the trains. Highspeed rail would cut the time to two to three hours...

Va Beach VH Fan
07-07-2012, 05:52 PM
I'd rather bee in a car rather than trapped in a train during an earthquake...

Come on E, I know you've spent some of your time in Southern California, you know if this ever gets off the ground, it will be beneficial....

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 05:59 PM
Maybe if California had the money to pay for it up front...

You know it's going to go way over budget and the federal government will be called on to bail it out on the taxpayer dime...again...


:elvis:

Satan
07-07-2012, 06:18 PM
Maybe if California would tax all the rich fucks that live there (including Willard Mittens Romney) they would have the money. Declare all the anti-tax ballot measures unconstitutional, and raise taxes retroactively among the billionaires at least. Other states need to do the same (Washington comes to mind, as they have the same problems for the same reason)

Two things should NEVER be up for popular vote: Tax laws and civil rights. Because the same ignorant morons will vote stupidly on both, and others will suffer for it.

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 06:23 PM
Oh, take even more money from the people who busted their ass to get it ??

Is that your idea of the american way ??

Satan
07-07-2012, 06:48 PM
Oh, take even more money from the people who busted their ass to get it ??

Is that your idea of the american way ??

I'll bet if you listed the 25 richest people in Collieforneea, you couldn't even find 10 of them who acquired that money by any means that could be qualified as "busting their asses".

Busting others asses, maybe. Probably not as blatantly as the "old money" down south did.... but only because most of the new slaves live in other countries.

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 06:50 PM
Still, you want to take money from people to fund whatever you deem to be a good idea...

Satan
07-07-2012, 07:04 PM
What a Devil wants is for the US to return to the great country it once was. Where you could drive down a road - or take a train, or a plane, or bus, or whatever with relatively little hassle, and aside from the random statistical risk of getting in a crash of whatever vehicle, you were relatively safe, because the roads, rails, and vehicles were all reasonably well built and maintained (Well, people maintained the vehicles themselves if they could, but it was easier to do so)

How was all this built? With a tax code that required the richest Americans to pay their fair share.

When did it start falling apart? After the BCE (first with Reagan, then Chimpy) told them they didn't have to do so anymore.

Why does this matter to the Devil? Because a population that has less time to worry about shit like this, has more time to SIN, of course! http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

BTW Nurse Presley, did Piyush ever fix those levees around NOLA? What about that Huey P. Long bridge? Is it still a deathtrap waiting to happen?

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 07:12 PM
Both have been rebuilt without raising taxes or asking for a bailout..

Satan
07-07-2012, 07:19 PM
Both have been rebuilt without raising taxes or asking for a bailout..

Let me guess......

FEMA money for the Katrina recovery, right?

Because the money apparently wasn't there before the hurricane, so where else would it have come from?

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 07:24 PM
Jobs...

SunisinuS
07-07-2012, 07:30 PM
Yea it is so funny, Cali knows the future. Since the population is more cosmopolitan it has experienced trains etc and knows how valuable they are. For Republicans to make such a simple thing political just shows you how far they have left their frontal lobes behind.

Great Job Cali. We love ya. And in the future when some other states who gave up that money just for spite politically, hope you enjoy walking!

Although Chris Christie has never walked a day in his life. Got to wonder as the Repukes stick their heads so far up Christie's ass....they must really love that smell.



Meet California in the future not the pasture.

Seshmeister
07-07-2012, 07:55 PM
Still, you want to take money from people to fund whatever you deem to be a good idea...

How much does your government spend on each year on maintaining oil supplies, cars and roads?

Satan
07-07-2012, 08:13 PM
Interesting fact from the Wiki page on the Huey P. Long bridge project....


The Huey P. Long Bridge Widening Project is a TIMED (Transportation Infrastructure Model for Economic Development) Program project. The TIMED Program was created by Act 16 of the 1989 Louisiana Legislature, was voted for by the people and is the single largest transportation program in state history. The Program is designed to enhance economic development in Louisiana through an investment in transportation projects.

So Nurse Presley, I guess it's OK if your state invests in infrastructure, just not the Collieforneeans?

gbranton
07-07-2012, 08:34 PM
Both have been rebuilt without raising taxes or asking for a bailout..

C'mon E, you aren't doing a great job debating this. If they were talking shit about Alabama like this I'd be all in it.

Dr. Love
07-07-2012, 08:37 PM
Eventually we're all going to be in deep economic shit. The real choice in front of us is whether we want to deal with it like adults and try to manage our way out of it, or if we want to behave like children and ignore the situation.

Given that the vast majority of the people in this country think that if they ignore a problem it will go away, I say... fuck it. Let's have one last epic shopping spree so we can go through the shitstorm sooner rather than later.

jhale667
07-07-2012, 08:47 PM
C'mon E, you aren't doing a great job debating this. If they were talking shit about Alabama like this I'd be all in it.

His troll fu is getting weaker lately.

Satan
07-07-2012, 08:48 PM
There's a difference between "spending" and investment. Nobody in the US is going to get a single goddamn dime back from Iraq or Afghanistan.

Oh sure, the oil companies will make money. And Halliburton. And the BCE/CIA from their heroin smuggling. But none of them pay taxes, so we won't even see that money indirectly.

Infrastructure improvements, such as the California trains, and the Lousiana bridge project are a far better deal, both short term and long term. It's too bad thousands of people had to die in New Orleans before they realized the levees really should be fixed, and I would hope that Pawlenty's failure in Minnesota might have motivated them to fix the Huey P. Long bridge.

Sometimes it takes money to make money. Sometimes you even have to borrow it. The key is separating the worthwhile investments from the dumbass wastes of time, resources, and lives (such as any "war" the US has been involved in after 1945.)

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 08:49 PM
So Nurse Presley, I guess it's OK if your state invests in infrastructure, just not the Collieforneeans?

It's ok for any state to invest in infrastructure if it's within their budget, but California ran out of any sort of responsible budget years ago...

Louisiana has jobs. South Louisiana has less than 5% unemployment with some areas as low as 3.9%

Bobby Jindal does a very good job of attracting business to the state and the recovery following Katrina and the oil spill has been exemplary...

Our Charity hospital system is not the best, but it's also not the worst by far...

Louisiana could soon become of the model of how to run a state...

Seshmeister
07-07-2012, 09:05 PM
This is a place where dead bodies lay for weeks?

Billions of dollars spent but 7 years on parts of New Orleans still look like this?

http://gdb.voanews.eu/8B5C17C7-946B-4457-A3EF-C615F132CE99_w640_r1_s.jpg

Obviously you know more than me about this but an outsider perception is that this is not a place to even visit at the moment never mind replicate.

gbranton
07-07-2012, 09:16 PM
Obviously you know more than me about this but an outsider perception is that this is not a place to even visit at the moment never mind replicate.

I was just in New Orleans twice last week. I drove all around town, including deep into neighborhoods to visit Domilise's for po boys and into the Ninth Ward to eat at The Joint, not just the tourist traps and to my eye New Orleans looks to be recovering well. Plenty of great places to go, see music and eat in downtown NOLA.

As for that photo above, there are plenty of areas in places like Detroit that look EXACTLY like that which HAVEN'T been hit by the century's worst natural disaster.

Satan
07-07-2012, 09:23 PM
I was just in New Orleans twice last week. I drove all around town, including deep into neighborhoods to visit Domilise's for po boys and into the Ninth Ward to eat at The Joint, not just the tourist traps and to my eye New Orleans looks to be recovering well. Plenty of great places to go, see music and eat in downtown NOLA.

As for that photo above, there are plenty of areas in places like Detroit that look EXACTLY like that which HAVEN'T been hit by the century's worst natural disaster.

The disaster in Detroit was entirely man made. The disaster in New Orleans only partially so

gbranton
07-07-2012, 09:30 PM
The disaster in Detroit was entirely man made. The disaster in New Orleans only partially so

Sadly in both cases that is true. I was traveling through NOLA the summer before Katrina listening to 870AM and they were talking about the results of a hurricane conference that had just taken place in the city and they described exactly what later happened.......EXACTLY. In what later became chilling detail. The local and state governments KNEW. And they didn't have a plan. They should have been held accountable in a court of law.

Post number 1000!

Seshmeister
07-07-2012, 11:20 PM
My understanding is that it wasn't a natural disaster at all, it was caused by a massively disgraceful bit of engineering by a bunch of fucks at the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers who should be prosecuted for manslaughter.

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 11:23 PM
It is true that they knew exactly what would happen since the 60s and Louisiana had nothing but corrupt politicians...

But now the state, new Orleans and baton rouge have much more responsible government than they ever had in the past...

Many people have been put behind bars and they are working their way up to Ray Nagin...


Sent from my iPhone, bitches!

ELVIS
07-07-2012, 11:24 PM
My understanding is that it wasn't a natural disaster at all, it was caused by a massively disgraceful bit of engineering by a bunch of fucks at the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers who should be prosecuted for manslaughter.

That's true as well...


Sent from my iPhone, bitches!

gbranton
07-07-2012, 11:59 PM
Many people have been put behind bars and they are working their way up to Ray Nagin...

Yep, or working their way down, as it were. The headline on my complimentary newspaper the other morning was about that.