Second Amendment: It’s Not About Hunting, It’s About Tyranny

[ELVIS]

Kurt Nimmo

July 26, 2012

Now that Obama has tested the water on government gun control with a speech delivered before the National Urban League, we can expect the divisive issue to play a role in his re-election campaign.

Obama and his globalist handlers – who ultimately want every gun confiscated – understand that the American people by and large support the Second Amendment. This is why the president patronized hunters and shooters with an oily sleight of hand.
“I also believe that a lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals,” Obama said. “That they belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities.”

In fact, according to the founders, guns – including AK47s in the modern context – belong in the hands of the citizens and their state militias, as plainly and eloquently spelled out in the Second Amendment. Thomas Jefferson and the founders did not craft the Second Amendment to protect the right of hunters and target shooters. It was included – right after the First Amendment guareenting political speech – to ensure the right of citizens to violently oppose a tyrannical federal government if need be.

AK47s and other “assault” weapons are the sort of tools that will be used if push comes to shove and the people must violently oppose the government.

Obama supporters and other lovers of the state recoil at the prospect of armed resistance to a tyrannical centralized federal government and refuse to accept that this is what the Second Amendment is all about.

“The rights of conscience, of bearing arms, of changing the government, are declared to be inherent in the people,” wrote Fisher Ames, a member of the Massachusetts convention that ratified the Constitution in 1788. This concept is antithetical to the modern liberal who believes government to be a force of good.

“The Second Amendment was to protect the ability of the people to violently overthrow the government,” writes Richard Schrade, an attorney from Georgia and member of the Libertarian National Committee. “Let’s remember that this country was formed in a violent revolution. Let’s remember that at Lexington and Concord citizen fired on and killed government soldiers sent by the central government to confiscate their weapons and arms….

When viewed in this light, it is apparent that a limitation on automatic weapons would be an infringement on the purposes of the Second Amendment.”

If Obama supporters, Democrats, “progressives” and others demanding the government take our firearms in a misplaced effort to stop maniacs from killing people were honest, they would work to repeal the Second Amendment instead of chipping away at it piecemeal. “If we are going to have gun control then let’s not dicker around the fringes. Let those who would limit the law-abiding citizen’s access to arms first repeal the Second Amendment. That would be the intellectually honest way to address the issue."

Such a debate is only possible today because formerly free men no longer have a grasp of history and have been brainwashed by decades of government mandated public education and propaganda.

Early on in America, both the Federalists and the anti-Federalists agreed that arms and liberty are inextricably linked. George Mason and others knew reflexively that the most effective way to enslave a people is to disarm them. Mason, in particular, argued that divine providence had given every individual the right of self-defense – including the right to defend against a tyrannical government. Today, we have forgotten all of this.

Obama can easily get away with making an outrageous speech about hunting and target shooting and almost completely ignore criticism and not be called to task. We are told that he is a constitutional scholar. How could a constitutional scholar be completely ignorant of the Second Amendment’s true purpose and the admonitions of the founders? What constitutional scholar would be ignorant of Jefferson’s famous assertion, made in a letter to William Smith in 1787, that the “tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants”?

Obama is not a constitutional scholar. It is a phony title like just about everything else about the man. He is a teleprompter reader for a shadow global elite determined to debar access to weapons and take away those already in our possession. Not because of maniacs in theaters or classrooms, but in order to render us helpless against the violence of the state.


:elvis:

[BigBadBrian]

http://theshastalaker.com/any_questions.jpg

[ELVIS]

I don't really think this a left / right issue...

Playing the paradigm game is part of the problem...


:elvis:

[clarathecarrot]

Dear Mother Fuckers in the Liberal Socialist Mind Set,... this is the only reason China hasn't slammed into our west coast, and we have never been attacked on this continent in the last 200 years and never will be, when all the candy asses surrender themselves, you better hope these guys are still standing.

http://realscreen.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/duck-dynasty-1-622x414.jpg?9707a5

God Bless the Hunters, Gun Owners, who keep thier trigger, exersized.

[vandeleur]

1941 pearl harbour

[clarathecarrot]

911, San Juan Harbor..,, yeah etc... I,... know.

And I also mean these exact 4 guys and the guy who took the pics, as long as they are standing we sleep in peace...lol

lol

[Nitro Express]

1941 pearl harbour

The Japanese did that one, not the Chinese. Then of course that resulted in a bunch of yanks coming over there where the overpaid, oversexed, and over here bit started.

[Nitro Express]

The only way they can legally get rid of the 2nd Amendment is to follow the amendment process as outlined in the US Constitution. Put it up to a vote and see how far it gets. Not very far.

[vandeleur]

The Japanese did that one, not the Chinese. Then of course that resulted in a bunch of yanks coming over there where the overpaid, oversexed, and over here bit started.

Yeah I knew who started it , thought he meant 200 years in general not 200 years by china ...

As for the over here bit .... Man we were getting tired of keeping them nazi up and were looking share the glory about :biggrin:

[ELVIS]

We're being attacked from within, and our wonderful imposter president answers to the UN and not the Constitution...

[clarathecarrot]

The only way they can legally get rid of the 2nd Amendment is to follow the amendment process as outlined in the US Constitution. Put it up to a vote and see how far it gets. Not very far.

They will do it by small City while no-one is looking, then County, then State.

Just like I have always posted around here, do you all even know who is on your local city council, the Napoleon Complex, these little egoists have, they won the debate team in highschool and college, but couldn't get thier movie career going, failed at their state senate aspirations, and now they think thier legacy needs to be as though they were the framers of, The Constitution.


They will start in the local townships and no-one reads the things they are doing,.. no-one shows up for the votes, they aren't even published in your local fish wrap.

From within is correct!!! Small and tiny like a church mouse with a pen and ink.

Like a thief in the night, they will!!

The only thing crazy about the wino on the corner is, his sign.. it shouldn't read, "the end is near"
it should read, "the end is right over there in your city council meeting, so close you cannot see it".

EDIT: It may read can't intead of cannot, winos are know slackers and probably use contractions!!!

Keep The Faith Bitches!!!

[ELVIS]

Hey carrot...

This may help you:

Get some acetone and wipe the letters off of your keyboard and relabel them however seems best to you...

[Nitro Express]

They will do it by small City while no-one is looking, then County, then State.

Just like I have always posted around here, do you all even know who is on your local city council, the Napoleon Complex, these little egoists have, they won the debate team in highschool and college, but couldn't get thier movie career going, failed at their state senate aspirations, and now they think thier legacy needs to be as though they were the framers of, The Constitution.


They will start in the local townships and no-one reads the things they are doing,.. no-one shows up for the votes, they aren't even published in your local fish wrap.

From within is correct!!! Small and tiny like a church mouse with a pen and ink.

Like a thief in the night, they will!!

The only thing crazy about the wino on the corner is, his sign.. it shouldn't read, "the end is near"
it should read, "the end is right over there in your city council meeting, so close you cannot see it".

EDIT: It may read can't intead of cannot, winos are know slackers and probably use contractions!!!

Keep The Faith Bitches!!!

Things always rot from the inside out. That's how Rome fell and that's how we are falling. Once too many politicians buy too many votes with other people's money you are on the slippery slope. I get tired of hearing people say they got this for free. Nothing is for free and some things you sell your soul to politicians to get. If they are powerful enough to give it to you, they are powerful enough to take it away from you. Most people today would elect another Hitler for a free hot dog.

[ELVIS]

In that sense, Romney would be a more stable president...

[FORD]

In that sense, Romney would be a more stable president...


Yeah, just look at all the "stability" that 30 years of BCE/Randtard economic destruction has accomplished so far.

[clarathecarrot]

Things always rot from the inside out. That's how Rome fell and that's how we are falling. Once too many politicians buy too many votes with other people's money you are on the slippery slope. I get tired of hearing people say they got this for free. Nothing is for free and some things you sell your soul to politicians to get. If they are powerful enough to give it to you, they are powerful enough to take it away from you. Most people today would elect another Hitler for a free hot dog.

You are correct most also say when Rome reached the point that 51% of the people were supported by thee taxes of the 49% that labored for a income....( employed on the backs of the working class).

Obama care will increase the employment of government workers by the millions, I am sure.

More stress on the working people and the tax base...some say that is why we are where we are now..it will only get worse, if the Democrats have thier way.

They will create a socialist state and we will crumble into a no win scenario, of overburdened the overtaxed, unable to support the majority by the minority, just as Rome did.

[Nitro Express]

Obamacare is right out of the communist manifesto if you look at it. It will destroy what's left of the middle class through taxation and it allows the government to take over more of the economy. Of course by saying "The Government" you say the banks because they have printed enough funny money to buy off most the politicians. They just have a Marxist puppet at the moment instead of a Skull and Bonehead fascist.

It's the banks people and they are playing us like fools. As long as we are divided and focus our attention on red herrings like gay marriage and all that other garbage they got us. These guys are cocky and laughing. Occupy Wall Street? I guess when the congress and president said you can be arrested indefinately with no due process for protesting that kind of ended that idea. It's getting whittled away folks. They are taking it all.

[clarathecarrot]

Hey carrot...

This may help you:

Get some acetone and wipe the letters off of your keyboard and relabel them however seems best to you...

Those were the days huh Elvis..? line cameras, picas, t-squares and actuall hand done paste-up I miss my rubber eraser smell more.

But the acetone was good for a lunch hour escape..huh?

[ELVIS]

They're not whittling anymore though...

It's full steam ahead...

Just wait for Obama's next term, he might even tell us his real name...

[Nitro Express]

Historically when a superpower is this far gone, they usually just thrash around a bit before they break apart. I wouldn't be suprised to see the US split into sepparate countries. Either we have a constitutional convention that settles it or certain states just say fuck this and that ends up in another war and the end result of that settles it.

[FORD]

Obamacare is right out of the communist manifesto if you look at it. It will destroy what's left of the middle class through taxation and it allows the government to take over more of the economy. Of course by saying "The Government" you say the banks because they have printed enough funny money to buy off most the politicians. They just have a Marxist puppet at the moment instead of a Skull and Bonehead fascist..

Right..... because nothing says "Marxism" like mandatory payments to private corporations

[Nitro Express]

They're not whittling anymore though...

It's full steam ahead...

Just wait for Obama's next term, he might even tell us his real name...

I see is as a failed banking system desperately trying to just take everything over before their funny money ponzi scheme stops working. Obama is their main tool in this country right now to do that with. Look at his exective orders. It's going to hit the fan one way or another. The sitution is not sustainable. As soon as they are done with Obama they will toss him to the dogs. He's expendable.

[Nitro Express]

Right..... because nothing says "Marxism" like mandatory payments to private corporations

Call it fascism if you want. But the corporations bought the government so it can be marxism as well. Bush duped the conservatives and Obama duped the liberals. Nobody got what they were hoping to get and the bankers laugh. They have more power than ever if they can hold it. If someone doesn't blow their heads off.

[jhale667]

Just wait for Obama's next term...


Never mind the Alex Jones ass-puppetry, are you already conceding the election? :biggrin:






:guitar:

[Romeo Delight]

I don't really think this a left / right issue...

Playing the paradigm game is part of the problem...


:elvis:

PART of the problem? :lmao:

[ELVIS]

Never mind the Alex Jones ass-puppetry, are you already conceding the election? :biggrin:






:guitar:

Pretty much, people vote by what they see on TV, by looks, by color, by everything under the sun except what matters...

People are stupid...

[jhale667]

Pretty much, people vote by what they see on TV, by looks, by color, by everything under the sun except what matters...

People are stupid...


But you're saying the majority aren't stupid enough to vote for WRONGney.


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/376589_178575468941995_1553241525_n.jpg




:guitar:

[ELVIS]

I've had enough of Obama and his lies...

He lied to get elected, trying someone else is a safer bet than more lies...

[jhale667]

That's the same idiot logic that got us W. "Lied to get elected"? Elaborate.

[FORD]

But you're saying the majority aren't stupid enough to vote for WRONGney.


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/376589_178575468941995_1553241525_n.jpg

The majority didn't vote for Chimpy either, but that didn't stop them.

They're already stealing this election, and Diebold isn't even involved..... yet.

But this shouldn't surprise anyone. All these voter suppression bills are coming from the KKKoch funded "American Legislative Exchange Council" (who apparently want to exchange the American legislative process for unrestrained corporate fascism)

ALEC's original founder was a douchetube named Paul Weyrich, who made his feelings about voting clear, back in 1980....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPsl_TuFdes

[ELVIS]

We already have unrestrained corporate fascism...

[jhale667]

Weyrich's statement is so - fucking Un-American...geez. :puke:

[FORD]

I've had enough of Obama and his lies...

He lied to get elected, trying someone else is a safer bet than more lies...

I know you aren't voting for Mittens then, because he's a serial liar.

As well as a serial bully, and serial tax cheat. And based on his own insistence that "corporations are people, my friends", that would make him a serial killer as well.

[ELVIS]

You need to find some other website to spew Obama campaign commercial bullshit...

[jhale667]

The 4 Most Meaningless Arguments Against Gun Control


http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-4-most-meaningless-arguments-against-gun-control/

With 12 dead and 58 injured, the recent The Dark Knight Rises midnight massacre is currently the largest mass shooting in American history. With it comes the familiar conversation of whether or not to have an actual conversation about gun control. Even when a congresswoman gets shot, Congress doesn't seem interested in discussing the issue past "This was a terrible and violent crime. Our prayers are with-" and I don't know the rest, because I stopped listening, because prayers don't actually do anything. Except of course in Forrest Gump, when Jenny turns into a bird and flies far, far away from there.
But I'm not here to argue how many times prayers have been answered (according to Wikipedia, as many as but not exceeding 404 times!). Nor am I here to give concrete solutions about the gun problem our country and planet faces. NOR am I saying that gun control is the ONLY problem in these cases. As some have pointed out, a better mental health system would likely reduce the amount and frequency of these tragic events. NOR am I here to offend gun nuts by referring to them as "gun nuts." I've shot guns a few times, and I have guns to thank for helping me look the coolest I will ever look.

But guns are still a part of the core problem. If everything goes as expected this time around, not much will happen. But if nothing goes as expected, maybe we'll finally end up in a real conversation about guns and safety. And if we want that conversation to move beyond a simple "Well, that was tragic, here's hoping something like it doesn't happen again, and again, and again," then we need to stop saying the following four things, because they lead to nowhere. And as we all know, nothing gets done nowhere.

#4. "Guns Don't Kill People, People Kill People"


I almost didn't include this, because it's such a silly and empty dodge of the real conversation behind it. I hear and read it so often, though, that I decided to include it. You can tell by you reading this now. Here I am, including it.

Now, people DO kill people. That much is true. It has always been true, before we even had tools. Before we were even people. And that killing truth is indeed part of the problem. Humanity is persistently inconsistent and complex, even in the reasons we kill: desperation, survival, anger or accident, to name a few of the big ones. Insanity, to name the currently most relevant one. Bottom line, though, is that many of us are killers. It's what half of the above saying means: Human nature is deeply intertwined with violence and killing, and we as a species need to evolve past that in order to move forward into the vast playground of the Universe.
Yes, people kill people, and that is terrible. But guns? Guns also kill people. The first gunpowder weapon to exist is the fire lance, and it was created by the Chinese around the 12th century. The first description of their use was in the Shou Cheng Lu, an account of the siege of De An in 1132. It describes the Song forces using fire lances against the Jurchens, presumably because they were such jerk-ens. Since the beginning, guns were invented by the people, for the people, to kill the people. They puncture your flesh until you die. That's what they're for. Yes, guns can also be used for hunting, or maybe for nope just hunting. Killing people, and killing animals. Guns don't do anything other than kill. Guns kill. That's, like, the fucking point.

So the true saying here isn't "Guns Don't Kill People, People Kill People." That's, I'm sorry, fucking stupid. It should actually read "Guns Kill, and People Kill People." If the problem is really "people kill," then the solution shouldn't be "Here, people. Have this instrument that makes it super easy to kill." If we perpetuate the thought that killstruments are OK, we will never be able to evolve past our violent roots. "People Kill People" will always be true as long as we create and nourish a culture where killing is an option.

One could say, though, that killing is always an option, even without guns. There are countless tools at our disposal that could double as instruments of death. So ...

#3. "Fire and Drugs Kill People, Too. You Wanna Outlaw Matches and Drugs?"

As far as that first bit is concerned, I couldn't agree more. Fire and drugs kill people. I am so agreeing with that right now. But in this article by Scott L. Bach, president of guns and stuff, he puts forth an argument in favor of guns and stuff that takes it too far. It is a very common yet very broken argument, so I'll just copy/paste it for you right here:

"When an arsonist lights a match that burns a building, is the match at fault? Are match manufacturers responsible for the fire? Should laws be passed prohibiting you from having and using matches, or restricting which types you can have, and in what quantities?

"The obvious answer to these questions is no. The same match that is misused by the arsonist lights the fireplace that warms us, and the stove that feeds us. The match has no mind of its own. It is not an evil invention. Its purpose is to ignite, nothing more. If it is misused, the solution is to punish the individual wrongdoer. Everyone else should be left alone.

"The same is true of firearms."

OK. Simply put, "Nuh-uh."

A match has many uses completely unrelated to causing death. A match is not manufactured or intended for death. And the same goes for drugs (unless of course you're talking about the death of the walls confining us to our limited understanding of perception, man). In fact, the same goes for basically anything other than a firearm. Tools are misused to kill people, it's true. But tools are meant for something else entirely. Tools build and fix and aid and improve. Firearms do not. If used correctly, a firearm is meant to, in an instant, kill or destroy something. If a gun is used incorrectly, it would actually mean that something doesn't get shot.

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/7/3/6/139736.jpg?v=1

Again, I'm not saying we should outlaw guns. But the conversation can't progress if people keep using arguments that ignore what guns actually are, and what they are used for. Likening a gun to a match or recreational drugs or an icicle or [anything else that can cause death] is an attempt to lighten the weight of a firearm's actual purpose. Guns and [anything else] are not the same. They should not be discussed as though they are.


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/139742.jpg
OK, then how do you propose I get my goddamn kids back?




Oh, right, what of me and my situation with my kids? What of the people who use guns to stand in the way of those who would use them for killing? "What of those people?" I am forcing you to ask right now. Because guns don't only kill. There's hunting (read: killing), target practice (read: practicing killing) and defense! Forgot about defense! Yeah! That's the one! Defense! Because as we all know ...

#2. "Guns Save Lives."

After last week's shooting, some are saying that the tragedy could have been avoided if someone in that audience had been holding a gun. Ignoring the intense panic and huge crowd, the tear gas filling the theater and the body armor the shooter was wearing, sure, maybe someone could have gotten a good shot off. After all, there are many success stories of defensive gun uses, or DGUs. Around the Internet, many people toss around the number "2.5 million," as in "There are 2.5 million DGUs a year." That's quite a lot of lives possibly saved. Now compare it to, say, the 75,684 gun-related injuries back in 2000, or the 31,224 gun-related deaths in 2007. Two and a half million! Wowzers!

Except "2.5 million" comes from a single study back in 1993. A study that involved calling 4,977 people across the country, asking them a few gun questions and then adjusting the number to fit the population of the whole country. The number is both highly cited and highly disputed. Not only are the figures not enough to make an accurate estimate (other studies range from 50,000 to 2 million), but the results don't actually translate to "lives saved thanks to gun use." They refer to a gun being involved in the presumed protection of a person or thing. This could be a life-threatening situation or a situation where a gun wasn't needed at all. DGUs include people who were in actual danger of losing their lives, as well as people who were George Zimmerman. Regardless, the general consensus is that 2.5 million is a gross exaggeration.

So we have a mixed bag of "guns saving lives" scenarios. In some cases, guns will stop a crime. In others, guns will kill a maybe criminal. In others still, they will be a part of a terrible accident. It's quite a gamble. Like Russian roulette, only no one knows they're playing it. And now, since the Dark Knight shooting, gun sales have gone up thanks to a healthy dose of fear. More potential to save a life, and just as much more potential to end one. I of course don't want to belittle the success stories, though. A life saved is fantastic, and however many lives saved is however many fantastics.

But the real problem with a "guns save lives" argument is the language used. People talk about "defensive gun uses" and their right to defend themselves and their property. But there's actually nothing defensive about a gun. They are all ATTACK. They are made and used for offense. "Defense," on the other hand, is resistance against an attack. Defense is protection, something that STOPS an attack. Wearing a condom is defense, whereas punching yourself in the balls is offense. Protection is a bullet-proof vest, or mace, or a security system. A gun is not defense. The widespread use of an actual defensive weapon would potentially save more lives than a gun because, again, guns are for killing, not protecting. The sooner we are all provided a weapon LIKE a gun that merely incapacitates a person, the sooner we can safely defend ourselves, instead of defending ourselves by killing each other.

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/7/4/0/139740.jpg?v=1

OK, that poster isn't super relevant. I just felt like lightening the mood. Because I don't want to say that "Guns Save Lives" is absolutely meaningless. But it is muddy. It's just not all there, which makes it not have true meaning in the context of the larger conversation. The truth is, "Guns Have Saved Lives. Guns Have Ended Lives. Guns Are Meant to Kill." The issue isn't whether or not we have the right to protect ourselves and others, it's whether or not guns are the best instrument to do the protecting.

Speaking of rights, none of this actually matters, because ...

#1. "Well, the Second Amendment Says ..."

Stop it. Technically yes, the Second Amendment says what you were going to say before I cut you off, but stop it. I'll tell you what the Second Amendment says.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

There's quite a lot of debate over what this actually means, and many will argue that the amendment only refers to people in a militia. So if you're not in a militia, then you should not have a gun. Except in 2008, the Supreme Court held that the Second Amendment protects the right of an individual to possess a firearm. So there. The Second Amendment wins. You can grab your gat and go get your kids back now.

Except that court ruling doesn't have as much meaning as you think, in the long run. The very nature of the Constitution is not permanent. We're talking about the Second Amendment, after all. The Constitution is supposed to be amended. Not only that, it's supposed to be completely rewritten. Take it from Thomas Jefferson:

"Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of nineteen years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right."

Our Constitution, of course, has not been rewritten in more than 200 years (read: ever). But people change, and nations change. Ideals and rights change. Life was, ya know, totally way different 230 years ago. It's quite possible that the people no longer require or even want every citizen to have the ability of point-and-shoot death. We should also consider what "bear arms" meant when it was written. Back then, guns were muskets, and muskets could fire about three incredibly inaccurate rounds per minute. Today, an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle can shoot off more than 60 rounds per minute with extreme accuracy, and reload in seconds. Perhaps it's time to reevaluate our needs and freedoms. In fact, regardless of the gun control issue, perhaps we're about 200 years late on reevaluating our needs and freedoms.

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/7/3/5/139735.jpg?v=1

All I'm really asking is that when the conversation starts, let's actually have it. These basically meaningless phrases always seem to stop the conversation from even beginning. Let's move past that, and really look at ourselves and our country and our planet and our future. Let's consider who we are on a larger scale, and who we want to be, and where we are headed.

[jhale667]

You need to find some other website to spew Obama campaign commercial bullshit...

Quoth the guy posting Alex Jones conspiracy horseshit... :rolleyes:

[ELVIS]

That's some real UN-American bullshit right there...

[ELVIS]

So assfail, where do you think the next CIA shooting will be ??

[So this is love]

you guys are at it day in day out, have you agreed to disagree yet:popcorn:

[ELVIS]

Fuck no!!!

[jhale667]

Fuck no!!!


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/270958_379762185406934_2055236477_n.jpg

[ELVIS]

Serving up the feeling tacos as usual, I see...

[FORD]

The CIA doesn't shoot people anymore. They switched to the plane crash model (i.e. Salem Bin Lade/John Tower/Paul Wellstone/the guy who rigged the Diebold machines in Ohio,2004/etc) but too many people are catching on so they need a new idea.

[ELVIS]

Yes they do...

[Dr. Love]

The 4 Most Meaningless Arguments Against Gun Control


http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-4-most-meaningless-arguments-against-gun-control/

With 12 dead and 58 injured, the recent The Dark Knight Rises midnight massacre is currently the largest mass shooting in American history. With it comes the familiar conversation of whether or not to have an actual conversation about gun control. Even when a congresswoman gets shot, Congress doesn't seem interested in discussing the issue past "This was a terrible and violent crime. Our prayers are with-" and I don't know the rest, because I stopped listening, because prayers don't actually do anything. Except of course in Forrest Gump, when Jenny turns into a bird and flies far, far away from there.
But I'm not here to argue how many times prayers have been answered (according to Wikipedia, as many as but not exceeding 404 times!). Nor am I here to give concrete solutions about the gun problem our country and planet faces. NOR am I saying that gun control is the ONLY problem in these cases. As some have pointed out, a better mental health system would likely reduce the amount and frequency of these tragic events. NOR am I here to offend gun nuts by referring to them as "gun nuts." I've shot guns a few times, and I have guns to thank for helping me look the coolest I will ever look.

But guns are still a part of the core problem. If everything goes as expected this time around, not much will happen. But if nothing goes as expected, maybe we'll finally end up in a real conversation about guns and safety. And if we want that conversation to move beyond a simple "Well, that was tragic, here's hoping something like it doesn't happen again, and again, and again," then we need to stop saying the following four things, because they lead to nowhere. And as we all know, nothing gets done nowhere.

#4. "Guns Don't Kill People, People Kill People"


I almost didn't include this, because it's such a silly and empty dodge of the real conversation behind it. I hear and read it so often, though, that I decided to include it. You can tell by you reading this now. Here I am, including it.

Now, people DO kill people. That much is true. It has always been true, before we even had tools. Before we were even people. And that killing truth is indeed part of the problem. Humanity is persistently inconsistent and complex, even in the reasons we kill: desperation, survival, anger or accident, to name a few of the big ones. Insanity, to name the currently most relevant one. Bottom line, though, is that many of us are killers. It's what half of the above saying means: Human nature is deeply intertwined with violence and killing, and we as a species need to evolve past that in order to move forward into the vast playground of the Universe.
Yes, people kill people, and that is terrible. But guns? Guns also kill people. The first gunpowder weapon to exist is the fire lance, and it was created by the Chinese around the 12th century. The first description of their use was in the Shou Cheng Lu, an account of the siege of De An in 1132. It describes the Song forces using fire lances against the Jurchens, presumably because they were such jerk-ens. Since the beginning, guns were invented by the people, for the people, to kill the people. They puncture your flesh until you die. That's what they're for. Yes, guns can also be used for hunting, or maybe for nope just hunting. Killing people, and killing animals. Guns don't do anything other than kill. Guns kill. That's, like, the fucking point.

So the true saying here isn't "Guns Don't Kill People, People Kill People." That's, I'm sorry, fucking stupid. It should actually read "Guns Kill, and People Kill People." If the problem is really "people kill," then the solution shouldn't be "Here, people. Have this instrument that makes it super easy to kill." If we perpetuate the thought that killstruments are OK, we will never be able to evolve past our violent roots. "People Kill People" will always be true as long as we create and nourish a culture where killing is an option.

One could say, though, that killing is always an option, even without guns. There are countless tools at our disposal that could double as instruments of death. So ...

#3. "Fire and Drugs Kill People, Too. You Wanna Outlaw Matches and Drugs?"

As far as that first bit is concerned, I couldn't agree more. Fire and drugs kill people. I am so agreeing with that right now. But in this article by Scott L. Bach, president of guns and stuff, he puts forth an argument in favor of guns and stuff that takes it too far. It is a very common yet very broken argument, so I'll just copy/paste it for you right here:

"When an arsonist lights a match that burns a building, is the match at fault? Are match manufacturers responsible for the fire? Should laws be passed prohibiting you from having and using matches, or restricting which types you can have, and in what quantities?

"The obvious answer to these questions is no. The same match that is misused by the arsonist lights the fireplace that warms us, and the stove that feeds us. The match has no mind of its own. It is not an evil invention. Its purpose is to ignite, nothing more. If it is misused, the solution is to punish the individual wrongdoer. Everyone else should be left alone.

"The same is true of firearms."

OK. Simply put, "Nuh-uh."

A match has many uses completely unrelated to causing death. A match is not manufactured or intended for death. And the same goes for drugs (unless of course you're talking about the death of the walls confining us to our limited understanding of perception, man). In fact, the same goes for basically anything other than a firearm. Tools are misused to kill people, it's true. But tools are meant for something else entirely. Tools build and fix and aid and improve. Firearms do not. If used correctly, a firearm is meant to, in an instant, kill or destroy something. If a gun is used incorrectly, it would actually mean that something doesn't get shot.

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/7/3/6/139736.jpg?v=1

Again, I'm not saying we should outlaw guns. But the conversation can't progress if people keep using arguments that ignore what guns actually are, and what they are used for. Likening a gun to a match or recreational drugs or an icicle or [anything else that can cause death] is an attempt to lighten the weight of a firearm's actual purpose. Guns and [anything else] are not the same. They should not be discussed as though they are.


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/139742.jpg
OK, then how do you propose I get my goddamn kids back?




Oh, right, what of me and my situation with my kids? What of the people who use guns to stand in the way of those who would use them for killing? "What of those people?" I am forcing you to ask right now. Because guns don't only kill. There's hunting (read: killing), target practice (read: practicing killing) and defense! Forgot about defense! Yeah! That's the one! Defense! Because as we all know ...

#2. "Guns Save Lives."

After last week's shooting, some are saying that the tragedy could have been avoided if someone in that audience had been holding a gun. Ignoring the intense panic and huge crowd, the tear gas filling the theater and the body armor the shooter was wearing, sure, maybe someone could have gotten a good shot off. After all, there are many success stories of defensive gun uses, or DGUs. Around the Internet, many people toss around the number "2.5 million," as in "There are 2.5 million DGUs a year." That's quite a lot of lives possibly saved. Now compare it to, say, the 75,684 gun-related injuries back in 2000, or the 31,224 gun-related deaths in 2007. Two and a half million! Wowzers!

Except "2.5 million" comes from a single study back in 1993. A study that involved calling 4,977 people across the country, asking them a few gun questions and then adjusting the number to fit the population of the whole country. The number is both highly cited and highly disputed. Not only are the figures not enough to make an accurate estimate (other studies range from 50,000 to 2 million), but the results don't actually translate to "lives saved thanks to gun use." They refer to a gun being involved in the presumed protection of a person or thing. This could be a life-threatening situation or a situation where a gun wasn't needed at all. DGUs include people who were in actual danger of losing their lives, as well as people who were George Zimmerman. Regardless, the general consensus is that 2.5 million is a gross exaggeration.

So we have a mixed bag of "guns saving lives" scenarios. In some cases, guns will stop a crime. In others, guns will kill a maybe criminal. In others still, they will be a part of a terrible accident. It's quite a gamble. Like Russian roulette, only no one knows they're playing it. And now, since the Dark Knight shooting, gun sales have gone up thanks to a healthy dose of fear. More potential to save a life, and just as much more potential to end one. I of course don't want to belittle the success stories, though. A life saved is fantastic, and however many lives saved is however many fantastics.

But the real problem with a "guns save lives" argument is the language used. People talk about "defensive gun uses" and their right to defend themselves and their property. But there's actually nothing defensive about a gun. They are all ATTACK. They are made and used for offense. "Defense," on the other hand, is resistance against an attack. Defense is protection, something that STOPS an attack. Wearing a condom is defense, whereas punching yourself in the balls is offense. Protection is a bullet-proof vest, or mace, or a security system. A gun is not defense. The widespread use of an actual defensive weapon would potentially save more lives than a gun because, again, guns are for killing, not protecting. The sooner we are all provided a weapon LIKE a gun that merely incapacitates a person, the sooner we can safely defend ourselves, instead of defending ourselves by killing each other.

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/7/4/0/139740.jpg?v=1

OK, that poster isn't super relevant. I just felt like lightening the mood. Because I don't want to say that "Guns Save Lives" is absolutely meaningless. But it is muddy. It's just not all there, which makes it not have true meaning in the context of the larger conversation. The truth is, "Guns Have Saved Lives. Guns Have Ended Lives. Guns Are Meant to Kill." The issue isn't whether or not we have the right to protect ourselves and others, it's whether or not guns are the best instrument to do the protecting.

Speaking of rights, none of this actually matters, because ...

#1. "Well, the Second Amendment Says ..."

Stop it. Technically yes, the Second Amendment says what you were going to say before I cut you off, but stop it. I'll tell you what the Second Amendment says.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

There's quite a lot of debate over what this actually means, and many will argue that the amendment only refers to people in a militia. So if you're not in a militia, then you should not have a gun. Except in 2008, the Supreme Court held that the Second Amendment protects the right of an individual to possess a firearm. So there. The Second Amendment wins. You can grab your gat and go get your kids back now.

Except that court ruling doesn't have as much meaning as you think, in the long run. The very nature of the Constitution is not permanent. We're talking about the Second Amendment, after all. The Constitution is supposed to be amended. Not only that, it's supposed to be completely rewritten. Take it from Thomas Jefferson:

"Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of nineteen years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right."

Our Constitution, of course, has not been rewritten in more than 200 years (read: ever). But people change, and nations change. Ideals and rights change. Life was, ya know, totally way different 230 years ago. It's quite possible that the people no longer require or even want every citizen to have the ability of point-and-shoot death. We should also consider what "bear arms" meant when it was written. Back then, guns were muskets, and muskets could fire about three incredibly inaccurate rounds per minute. Today, an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle can shoot off more than 60 rounds per minute with extreme accuracy, and reload in seconds. Perhaps it's time to reevaluate our needs and freedoms. In fact, regardless of the gun control issue, perhaps we're about 200 years late on reevaluating our needs and freedoms.

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/7/3/5/139735.jpg?v=1

All I'm really asking is that when the conversation starts, let's actually have it. These basically meaningless phrases always seem to stop the conversation from even beginning. Let's move past that, and really look at ourselves and our country and our planet and our future. Let's consider who we are on a larger scale, and who we want to be, and where we are headed.

Well, you've convinced me. Without guns, we won't have any more terrible mass killings because the people that want to do them won't be able to figure out how to do it anymore. Where do I sign away my rights to protect me from the 0.00091824% of the population that have commit gun crimes every year?

[jhale667]

What was that? I was mesmerized by your sig pic...

[Dr. Love]

What was that? I was mesmerized by your sig pic...

It's how I keep a tactical edge despite my weak arguments...

[jhale667]

It's how I keep a tactical edge despite my weak arguments...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m68i1jFUKR1qdyxtgo1_500.gif

[Nitro Express]

Chairman Mao once said power grows out of the barrel of a gun and that is what it is. Power. People who want all the guns want all the power. The US Constitution gives some of that power to the citizens. Why? As Ice T recently said, it's the last resort against tyranny. Not to target shoot or to hunt. It's a source of power. Period.

Tyrants know it's power and people who want to defend freedom know it.

What amazes me when we live in a day where government corruption is rampant and people want to continue to give a bunch of lying power hungry despots more power. Why? They promise good things. Well talk is cheap and actions speak. History speaks and apparently society has learned nothing from it.

[Nickdfresh]

http://theshastalaker.com/any_questions.jpghttp://skiffleboom.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/american-beauty-rain.jpg

What exactly is that picture supposed to mean, Brian? That you want to "do" a marine in kevlar? By the way, I didn't know Fallujah, Iraq was a Red State...

[Nitro Express]

Yeah I knew who started it , thought he meant 200 years in general not 200 years by china ...

As for the over here bit .... Man we were getting tired of keeping them nazi up and were looking share the glory about :biggrin:

The Chinese had the technology to be world travelers and they did go out and about but never were much into colonizing. About the only place the Chinese have taken over is Tibet. Right now instead of running a big military around and trying to keep up a huge number of overseas bases they are becoming the number one customer and business partner. But they can be jackass bullies when someone flys a Taiwan flag in the olympics. They will throw a tizzy fit and pressure the authorities to take it down. They tried this in Salt Lake City. Someone was flying a Taiwan flag off their own balcony. The response was the neighbors all flew Taiwan flags and told the Chinese to get fucked. The strange thing is there are more and more Taiwan owned factories in mainland China. Go figure.

[Nitro Express]

I think Brian's picture alludes that the red state youth get suckered into fighting lame wars because of the false patriotism and gung ho mind set while the blue state youth are smart enough to avoid military service and party it up in gay parades. Of course if it ever came down to really needing someone to defend us, I would take that marine in kevlar over the two poofs.

[Nickdfresh]

Notice how these intellectually defective essayists that write about the Second Amendment and tie it to universal, unrestricted gun-rights never actually quote it?

[FORD]

I think Brian's picture alludes that the red state youth get suckered into fighting lame wars

....and yet they keep voting for the fucking idiots who start them.

[Nitro Express]

That's because an evil Republican is less evil than an evil Democrat.:biggrin:

[FORD]

As far as I'm concerned, an evil Democrat is worse.

Because I expect Republicans to evil, which is why I don't vote for them.

Democrats aren't supposed to support evil, but unfortunately, many of them have since 1992 or so. :(

[tbone888]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the basic idea of the 2nd amendment wasnt intended for hunting or protecting yourself from a crazy guy busting your door down...but it was, in addition to the rest of the bill of rights, intended to protect "the people" from an overbearing, overreaching government. Considering the government has weapons that allows them to sit off the coast and take out each house in your neighborhood one by one, standing on the front porch with a rifle wont do much good. If one really wanted to follow the "spirit" behind the 2nd amendment, you would have to allow everyone access to all the weapons the government currently has...obviously not feasible. In other words, the 2nd amendment is one of the most outdated laws on the books. We might as well be talking about a law prohibiting women from wearing dresses above the ankles on sundays.

[clarathecarrot]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the basic idea of the 2nd amendment wasnt intended for hunting or protecting yourself from a crazy guy busting your door down...but it was, in addition to the rest of the bill of rights, intended to protect "the people" from an overbearing, overreaching government. Considering the government has weapons that allows them to sit off the coast and take out each house in your neighborhood one by one, standing on the front porch with a rifle wont do much good. If one really wanted to follow the "spirit" behind the 2nd amendment, you would have to allow everyone access to all the weapons the government currently has...obviously not feasible. In other words, the 2nd amendment is one of the most outdated laws on the books. We might as well be talking about a law prohibiting women from wearing dresses above the ankles on sundays.

I agree.. if we only had a boat and a drill press and some steel pipe and knew the, SECRET OF GUNPOWDER!!!

Damn that govenrment and thier ability to use screw drivers and a soldering iron when will they give us the technology!!!!

Word has been once said, that we to will also know the secret of fllight ...but ye..knoweth.. there it is said, to be a man that cometh in the future to deliver unto us the ability, to pour gasoline into a engine and then the government will!! PAY!!!!

Get with the program .

[ELVIS]

Some nice assault weapons in the appropriately trained hands of a small percentage of citizens who understand freedom would be enough to stop the tyrannical federal government in its tracks...

[ELVIS]

It might be way more difficult now that Obama has the UN and foreign governments involved...

They are going to attempt to disarm the public soon, though...

[FORD]

Some nice assault weapons in the appropriately trained hands of a small percentage of citizens who understand freedom would be enough to stop the tyrannical federal government in its tracks...

Yes, but until the time machine is invented, we can't go back and storm the chambers of the Supreme Court on December 12,2000.

Because THAT is when armed rebellion against unconstitutional tyranny might have done some good.

[ELVIS]

At least you agree that it may be possible to achieve...

[FORD]

At least you agree that it may be possible to achieve...

Well.... that was before the BCE invented the "Patriot" act and unmanned drones .

Truthfully, if I had a time machine, I'd go back a lot further and just take out Prescott Bush early.

No Hitler....No Nixon....No Reagan....No Poppy.....No Chimpy......etc.

[ELVIS]

Looks like California will be the first state with widespread use of drones...

I guess they want to test public reaction in liberalville...

I hope people start shooting them down left and right...

[clarathecarrot]

That just means another 500 TV shows about the aliens we have really really really really!! found this time.

Talk about wasting taxpayer money in a state that can't keep the water turned on for thier unemployed.

[Nickdfresh]

Some nice assault weapons in the appropriately trained hands of a small percentage of citizens who understand freedom would be enough to stop the tyrannical federal government in its tracks...

If you really believe that, you're completely fucking retarded...

[ELVIS]

There's plenty of people willing to die for freedom who believe that...

You're just a brainwashed victim of propaganda and liberalism...

You believe lies and have no idea what the truth is or where to look for it...

[Angel]

Correct me if I'm wrong...I thought the purpose of the 2nd amendment was so that the citizens would be armed should England try to come back....

I don't think you have to worry anymore....

[ELVIS]

Replace England with tyranny and you got it...

The English pilgrims, also known as separatists fled the tyranny of King James I to form the English colony of Plymouth Rock...

But asshale and Dickforbrains will say this is conspiracy...

[FORD]

Replace England with tyranny and you got it...

The English pilgrims, also known as separatists fled the tyranny of King James I to form the English colony of Plymouth Rock...

But asshale and Dickforbrains will say this is conspiracy...

King James??

You mean the guy who came up with the Bible translation that most fundagelicals consider the "official Word of God", even to this day?

[clarathecarrot]

If you really believe that, you're completely fucking retarded...


I would hate to go up against our military what a loosing scenario that would be, if they were leveled against us, the citizens of this country.

I do however believe that if that ever happens 60% of them would hesitate to fire on fellow citizens...so, it really doesn't matter what happens, the majority in this country will always win out over the government controlled military.


It is different when a soldier is mind set against another countries combatants,.. than his own neighbors and family members.

I have thought about this and am no expert, but our government hasn't a chance against, The People.

[ELVIS]

Nick thinks the government will win and continue on robbing real Americans while pretending to take care of the rest...

[ELVIS]

And you're not gonna get the marines or the army to wage war against US citizens, even nick knows that...

They'll be on the side of the people...

That's why Obama wants a homeland security force made up of illegal immigrants and convicted felons...

[clarathecarrot]

The damage the 40% would do by following orders (the correct thing for them to do) would be hard for the normal citizens to survive, plus the 40% would have some of the non-military on thier side.

The winner would have to be the one who is, "in the right" and rarely does a government lead all out open fire policy on the peoples of that country have anything to do with "in the right".

I am almost sure the Syrians are not doing what they are doing in order to form a more oppressive government, maybe to unite in opression against other governments, but not for the opression of self.

[FORD]

And you're not gonna get the marines or the army to wage war against US citizens, even nick knows that...

They'll be on the side of the people...

That's why Obama wants a homeland security force made up of illegal immigran and convicted felons...

It's also why the BCE encouraged the creation of mercenary private armies like BlacKKKwater. Which, as ELVIS knows, has already been deployed against American citizens in the Hurricane Katrina disaster.

[ELVIS]

That's exactly right!

And now with the UN vote the federal government can use foreign troops to confiscate guns anywhere in the world...

[Nickdfresh]

There's plenty of people willing to die for freedom who believe that...

You're just a brainwashed victim of propaganda and liberalism...

You believe lies and have no idea what the truth is or where to look for it...

Are you done on your soapbox of phoney, sanctimonious bullshit yet?

Have you finished The Turner Diaries yet?

[Nickdfresh]

Replace England with tyranny and you got it...

The English pilgrims, also known as separatists fled the tyranny of King James I to form the English colony of Plymouth Rock...

But asshale and Dickforbrains will say this is conspiracy...

You're such an asshole with these high school boy lectures. I'm a direct descendant of the Pilgrims actually, and they were fleeing religious persecution so they could commit their own forms of persecution and tyranny. Any asshole can pick up a gun and think he's fighting for "freedom", but usually freedom is confused with personal selfishness and self-interest...

You wouldn't know real freedom if it bit you up the ass, Harecuntt...

[Nickdfresh]

Nick thinks the government will win and continue on robbing real Americans while pretending to take care of the rest...

No. Nick just thinks you're a deluded, moronic cunt with a wildly misplaced persecution complex manifesting itself from your miserable, unhappy life. That might be the reason your on here 24/7 lately at about 40-50 posts a day spouting a good deal of completely nonsensical gibberish with no factual basis whatsoever...


And you're not gonna get the marines or the army to wage war against US citizens, even nick knows that...

They'll be on the side of the people...

That's why Obama wants a homeland security force made up of illegal immigrants and convicted felons...

Who said anything about waging war "on US citizens." I was more like thinking the self-deluded angry militia shitheads, which are mainly the types that think they need guns to keep their freedom when they don't vote and take no interest in local politics...

And Obama wants a security force of felons and illegal immigrants? Dude, where the fuck are you getting this shit from? I'm sure you can blame Obama for everything turning to shit in your life, a nice convenient scapegoat is a great way to avoid personal responsibility!

[Nitro Express]

:biggrin:
You're such an asshole with these high school boy lectures. I'm a direct descendant of the Pilgrims actually, and they were fleeing religious persecution so they could commit their own forms of persecution and tyranny. Any asshole can pick up a gun and think he's fighting for "freedom", but usually freedom is confused with personal selfishness and self-interest...

You wouldn't know real freedom if it bit you up the ass, Harecuntt...

Yeah. It didn't take long for the indians (native americans) to realize they should have let the motherfuckers starve.

[Nitro Express]

That's exactly right!

And now with the UN vote the federal government can use foreign troops to confiscate guns anywhere in the world...

????? The UN Small Arms Treaty fell apart. They couldn't agree enough to come up with anything.

[Nitro Express]

Gun control means hitting your target. So all of you who own firearms, follow the safety procedures! We don't want any accidents and practice, practice, practice. Make sure you are shooting into a propper backstop and know what's behind it. That's all I have to say.

[clarathecarrot]

America is a beacon of light to all the world we are the culmination of all of mans hopes and dreams for a life without servitude and no reward.

Freedom.

There are other countries doing the same thing and those started earlier than, America.

I can tell you from my few travels to other countries, all eyes are on us.

I think that is kinds fucked up when this is a evolving concept democracy.

I do not believe we have evolved far enough for anyone to set thier weapons down and expect freedom to just be there.

That is my school lesson.

[Nickdfresh]

????? The UN Small Arms Treaty fell apart. They couldn't agree enough to come up with anything.

When Nitro Express knows more about what is actually happening in reality, you know you're posting utter shit! :biggrin:

[clarathecarrot]

Gun control means hitting your target. So all of you who own firearms, follow the safety procedures! We don't want any accidents and practice, practice, practice. Make sure you are shooting into a propper backstop and know what's behind it. That's all I have to say.


Eye, face and chest protection for the ricochet. those projectiles are always trying to go to thier maximum range, if you know what I mean.

[Nitro Express]

The US is a republic not a democracy. Our rights are documented in the US Constitution. Democracy is a lynch mob. Ben Franklin once said democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. The theory is the constitution is supposed to protect everyone because everyone has inaliable god given rights just because they are on this planet. The problem is we never even got close to following that. Certain states refused to give up slavery, and then when people with a different lifestyle i.e. native Americans were in the way of progress they had no rights either.

So a lot of people say the constitution is bullshit and we need to get rid of it. I disagree with that. We no longer have slavery, the indians are getting their revenge by taking our money by running casinos. They will end up owning the whole damn country again eventually. My whole life I have seen people from other parts of the world move here including Switzerland and say how unique our rights are. Maybe it's not for everyone but it's worked pretty good. It created the biggest middle class in world history and raised a lot of money that did a lot of good. The Marshall Plan being a prime example. I would say the main problem with the US right now is we have forgotten that freedom is not free and when you let your guard down bad people come in and take over. We have been taken over politically by the banks and they are using our military for their own selfish reasons. The middle class is almost gone. People no longer care for freedom, they want bailouts and handouts. Things aren't as bad as they really should be because we can print funny money the stores still accept and buy the public off with it. This is not long-term sustainable and when real goods will no longer be bartered for funny money, the whole house of cards comes crashing down, quick and hard. This is what will happen without a manufacturing base and entry level jobs and affordable education that people can work towards without getting into debt. This is what people don't see. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We need real jobs, a living wage, and affordable higher education. We had those things in the past we can get them again if we really want them and then we will have those with a better civil rights situation than we had in the past. Living off of printed money never works. You need real goods and a real economy. The banks want to keep us in debt forever.

None of this happens without a population base of people that know how to set goals and work towards them. We have become lazy as a nation. This has to stop. Kids need a job. They need to learn how to work again and manage their hard earned money and pay for things on their own. There is no pride anymore. Just slugs living on a handout and it makes the nation weak.

[clarathecarrot]

The Constitution and Bill Of Rights were designed a certain way due to the forethought of a smart group of men.

Here is how the Liberals, Socialists,etc.. and the people, who don't understand, would have designed it, the wrong way.

What we need to do is beat this kid of ours right now, for all the things he may do and will probably do wrong, all of his life.

Then what do you have ?

[Nitro Express]

Eye, face and chest protection for the ricochet. those projectiles are always trying to go to thier maximum range, if you know what I mean.

That's why you make a propper backstop out of soft dirt. Even sling shots are dangerous without a propper backstop.

[Nitro Express]

The Constitution and Bill Of Rights were designed a certain way due to the forethought of a smart group of men.

Here is how the Liberals, Socialists,etc.. and the people, who don't understand, would have designed it, the wrong way.

What we need to do is beat this kid of ours right now, for all the things he may do and will probably do wrong, all of his life.

David Rockefeller makes the case our form of democracy has been a huge failure and the world would be better ran by intellectuals and industrialists. He admits full heartedly that he has done everything to tear down our constitutional republic. Well, that sounds like a great system if you are on the upper side of things. But for the people under the elites it will be a world of no personal freedom.


Then what do you have ?

They always try and sell a perfect utopia. I would rather have some imperfection and freedom. I would rather give someone I don't like some freedom so I can have mine. I really don't want big daddy micromanaging my life. What happens if big daddy is someone that hates everything you are about? What happens if big daddy hates rock and roll music, long-hair, tattoos, and pornography? You are forced to have a hair cut and no porn? Oh it will be utopia for big daddy but you will live in this central managed hell.

[clarathecarrot]

That's why you make a propper backstop out of soft dirt. Even sling shots are dangerous without a propper backstop.

I agree but the shooting range gets expensive and I have do drive so far, to get out of city limits, (not real far but) so I set up in my basement and thought I had propper stopage and decelleration (sp) till I bored a hole all the way thru over time and wham bb comes wizzing back at me right past my ball cap.

I may not be actually any good in a real gun fight or even target practice with a real gun, because of the weight issues, recoil etc.. but one of these is cheap and alot of fun.

http://www.gamousa.com/product.aspx?product=P-23%20Laser&productID=125

[ELVIS]

Everything you said is correct, nitro, but you failed to mention that it's being done by design...

Jobs moved overseas, bank bailouts, subprime lending, regulation and taxes that kill small business and favor corporations, health tax, etc...

All done by design to pull the rug out from under the people that keep the free market alive...

Disarm the people and there will be nothing left except Disney, the grand canyon and some restaurants and casinos to visit from other parts of the world...

[ELVIS]

I'm a direct descendant of the Pilgrims actually, and they were fleeing religious persecution so they could commit their own forms of persecution and tyranny.



Now that we know what you're all about, you can take Your tyranny and persecution and shove it up your ass, pilgrim !!!

Hahahahaha...

[Nitro Express]

Everything you said is correct, nitro, but you failed to mention that it's being done by design...

Jobs moved overseas, bank bailouts, subprime lending, regulation and taxes that kill small business and favor corporations, health tax, etc...

All done by design to pull the rug out from under the people that keep the free market alive...

Disarm the people and there will be nothing left except Disney, the grand canyon and some restaurants and casinos to visit from other parts of the world...

All while the People's Republic of China is allowing it's citizens more freedom to keep the economy going. They not only allow them to own gold but encourage it. Go to Shanghai right now and you will see an emerging middle class. The first thing the Chinese want to buy when they get enough money is a car. The thing in China is the citizens have no documented rights. We do. It's why I stay in the US. I know what we have here. I not so sure a good share of the US public do anymore. It's shocking to see how many don't understand just basic banking or economics. You can't keep throwing good money after the bad. It's not sustainable. I think the people in power have the mindset they are just going to take everything. It doesn't matter if the money fails then. They own the farms, the water, what's left of the manufacturing, everyting. All they need is the right crisis. And oh yeah, we need to get rid of those pesky firearms.

It's getting so bad I think the two party system is a joke and useless. So I think enough states will call a constitutional convention and try and fix things that way. If that doesn't work, I'm afraid it might get bloody.

[ELVIS]

I hear that...

And quite a few states are beginning to see through all of this...

Louisiana is one of them...

[Nitro Express]

Everything you said is correct, nitro, but you failed to mention that it's being done by design...

Jobs moved overseas, bank bailouts, subprime lending, regulation and taxes that kill small business and favor corporations, health tax, etc...

All done by design to pull the rug out from under the people that keep the free market alive...

Disarm the people and there will be nothing left except Disney, the grand canyon and some restaurants and casinos to visit from other parts of the world...

That's because the corporations own everyone except for the small business owner. The biggest employers in the country I might add. This has been going on for a long time. It started with the outsourcing and now they have taken over the regulatory agencies. With Obamacare they can destroy with taxes and reward with exemptions. McDonald's complained and Kathleen Sebelius gave them an exemption. So not everyone is going to pay into Obamacare equally. Then of course the IRS will be used as an intimidating enforcing arm.

In short, it's economic warfare and bullying. I might add the federal government has ordered 300 million rounds of hollowpoint .40 S&W pistol ammo. It's against the Geneva convention to used such ammo so it's not for the military. It's for some kind of police force. Hmmmmmm. Who talked about a national police force when he campaigned? A certain skinny guy with big ears.

Yeah Elvis I know what's going on. The banks bought the government and infiltrated it. They know their paper money schemes can't go on much longer so they are going to use force to take all the REAL assets. Nobody knows more than a banker that money is worthless. Especially a banker in the the Federal Reserve. The ice is melting and they know it. So they have to grab power quick. Get ready. Things will happen fast if they happen.

I think the problem they are having is they don't have enough pawns. They don't have enough enforcers. Another problem is the UN is in disarray. I mean when you see the head of the IMF go to Brazil to beg for money something has changed. The IMF, World Bank, UN, Davos World Forum and all these other post WWII globalist organizations are becoming has beens. I see it like Nazi Germany being in it's death throws. It's finished but that doesn't mean they aren't going to go out swinging and try and grab as much loot as they can. I think the last place to get cleaned up and where the biggest struggle may be is right here in the US. Those bankers sure love to use our military and enjoyed playing games with the US dollar. We had the most to steal and they had a hey day. I hope we can end it and their attempt to take over everything here fails.

[ELVIS]

Amen brother...

I'm trying my best to be ready, I promise you that...

And I will side with and defend anyone who is trying to take care of themself and be ready for anything...

[jhale667]

When Nitro Express knows more about what is actually happening in reality, you know you're posting utter shit! :biggrin:

Pretty much...and since it dawned on me I hadn't Olivia Munn'ed a thread lately...


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/olivia-munn-feb-maxim-03-620x843.jpg

[ELVIS]

What an idiot...

[Nitro Express]

I hear that...

And quite a few states are beginning to see through all of this...

Louisiana is one of them...

I believe 40 states have passed sovergnty acts. That means the state legislature and governor has signed the act and it states they believe in state sovergnty as the founding fathers originally set up the country. It's the united STATES of america. The federal government was just suppossed to protect the extrerior borders (which it doesn't do), run the military, engage in foriegn policy, and run a supreme court that would decide whether laws were constitutinal or not. Most of the day to day opperations were suppossed to be ran by the states.

Thomas Jefferson himself said the biggest mistake they made in the constitution was allowing congress to borrow money. This makes the federal government unbeatable in power because it can borrow an endless supply of money and run huge defficites. The states can't. What happend the the federal government became the big money bag to suck off of and it made the people who administered it, enormousely powerful. Now it's come to a head. Most the states are broke and now Obamacare is expecting the states to fund most of it. It's unsustainable.

That healthcare plan was the straw that broke the camel's back and just may result in a constitutional convention and if that happens the power goes back to the states again.

[Nitro Express]

Amen brother...

I'm trying my best to be ready, I promise you that...

And I will side with and defend anyone who is trying to take care of themself and be ready for anything...

A firearm is the last resort. They are no good unless the people with them are organized. Organizing is the most important weapon in itself. The bad guys are very organized. The good guys not so much. So yeah, keep your firearm, know how to use it, and never surrender it and ORGANIZE! Hopefully we will never have to use the firearms. Everyone has been on the couch drinking beer and eating snacks watching TV while the bad guys have been getting everything they want. These guys are really smart. They are cocky. I hope the sleeping giant busts through the floor pissed as hell and eats them.

If anything the country has been through way worse shit than this. We are just a pampered generation that has seen our first major problem that is affecting everyone. In the past we just watched things on television that really didn't affect everyone that much. This affects everyone and everyone feels the pain. We haven't been in such a situation since the Great Depression.

[ELVIS]

That's exactly what Bobby Jindal was talking about on local TV the other day...

Nice post, Nitro...

You know what you're talking about and you explain it well...

[ELVIS]

I've met a few local people who understand what's going on and are armed to the teeth. One even has a bunker...

We've hung out and discussed these things on a few occasions so far...

[Nitro Express]

I've met a few local people who understand what's going on and are armed to the teeth. One even has a bunker...

We've hung out and discussed these things on a few occasions so far...

We have a decent sheriff's department so we basically are on the list of people to deputize if there is trouble. I also volunteer in the search and rescue. So we organize for natural disasters or man made disasters. Many people don't know it but your county sherrif has to give the federal government permission to police your county. He is the main juristiction in your county. He's a good guy to get to know and to work with, if you can trust him.

Find out how many people in your local government still believe in constitutional rights and organize with them. It's fine to do it with some friends but you are going to need some leadership everyone trusts and will follow in a crises. If you can do that under the sheriff thats great because his authority is already recognized. That's how we do it.

The other advantage is we can use the sheriff's department gun range. The US Forrest Service use to maintain a wonderful rifle range but it closed.

[Nitro Express]

Also beware of certain people or groups who claim to be right wing. They are infiltrators and fakes. Lot's of fake conservatives who will just stab you in the back. You are better to just be middle of the road. We actually have some Democrats in our group. Gun owning Democrats but then hey this is Wyoming.

[ELVIS]

We just got a new sheriff and he laid off a bunch of idiots...

I don't know the new one yet, but I have thought about volunteering for the local fire and rescue...

[ELVIS]

There are quite a few very tough Cajuns around here with more money than brains, but they are loyal, wealthy and they love the bayou and their freedom...

[Nitro Express]

This country will be saved locally. The best thing a person can do is to know their own community. The change won't come from politicians. It will come from the grass roots. The days of just voting once a year are over. We have to be more active than that.

[Nickdfresh]

The US is a republic not a democracy. Our rights are documented in the US Constitution. Democracy is a lynch mob...

Um, no. We have a republican form of gov't, but since we have elections that pretty clearly makes us a democracy...

[Nitro Express]

[QUOTE][/QDemocracy is often confused with the republic form of government. In some definitions of "republic," a republic is a form of democracy. Other definitions make "republic" a separate, unrelated term.[QUOTE]

I would say we are a constitutional republic with democratically elected representatives. That's how it was taught in my school. If I said we were a democracy the teacher would have a fit.

[vandeleur]

Replace England with tyranny and you got it...

The English pilgrims, also known as separatists fled the tyranny of King James I to form the English colony of Plymouth Rock...

But asshale and Dickforbrains will say this is conspiracy...



sshhh

[LoungeMachine]

We just got a new sheriff and he laid off a bunch of idiots...

I don't know the new one yet, but I have thought about volunteering for the local fire and rescue...

:lol:

I can see it now........I'LL BE RIGHT THERE......BUT FIRST I NEED TO START A THREAD ABOUT THE CIA AND GUNLOCKS ON THE INTERWEBS............

:gulp:

You go, Girl.

[jhale667]

:lmao:

[clarathecarrot]

:lmao:

That was stupid not funny..?

[jhale667]

That was stupid not funny..?

It was so funny it's stupid.

[ELVIS]

And you're so stupid it's funny...

[jhale667]

And you're an unemployed, racist, deluded trailer-dwelling hick who can't play guitar to save his life and is also Alex Jones' personal ass puppet....that's pretty stupid AND kinda funny.

[DLR Bridge]

When you guys (Elvis & J) took a break from verbally assaulting one another to discuss guitar to computer recording options last week, I thought of that Wile E. Coyote and Roadrunner cartoon where they were having cigarettes on a coffee break. The. Whistle blew, and they were back at it!

[ELVIS]

:biggrin:

[jhale667]

:hee:

[Dr. Love]

Be nice you two! I don't want anyone to get their feelings hurt and go off and put anyone on ignore now! :biggrin:

[ELVIS]

I've never put anyone on ignore...

[Nickdfresh]

Can someone tell me what Dr. Love said, I have him on ignore due to his sig's causing me injuries...