Mitt romney announces vice presidential candidate in norfolk saturday

[FORD]

How to Tell Paul Ryan Wants to Be Veep: He's Rejected His Former Idol Ayn Rand

Associated Press
Elspeth Reeve 1,401 Views Apr 26, 2012

Rep. Paul Ryan, looking to undercut his image as a hard-hearted Objectivist, has told the National Review of one of his favorite authors, Ayn Rand, "I reject her philosophy... It’s an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview." It's a surprising statement, given that Ryan said nearly the complete opposite in 2005: "The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand." And she didn't drive him into politics because he couldn't stand her philosophy, either. Ryan made those comments at a dinner in Washington, D.C. honoring Ayn Rand's birthday -- hosted by The Atlas Society, a group that takes its name from Rand's book Atlas Shrugged and is dedicated to promoting her ideas. But today, in an interview with National Review's Robert Costa, Ryan says something very different:

‘You know you’ve arrived in politics when you have an urban legend about you, and this one is mine,” chuckles Representative Paul Ryan, the Budget Committee chairman, as we discuss his purported obsession with author and philosopher Ayn Rand... These Rand-related slams, Ryan says, are inaccurate and part of an effort on the left to paint him as a cold-hearted Objectivist...

"If somebody is going to try to paste a person’s view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas... Don’t give me Ayn Rand..."

Where does this terrible urban legend come from? Some conservatives have been working to stamp it out recently: "Ryan Isn’t a Randian," the National Review's Brian Bolduc wrote just a couple weeks ago. Bolduc writes that New York Times columnist Paul Krugman "dubbed the congressman 'an Ayn Rand devotee,' an oft-employed epithet among Ryan’s detractors." But the Ryan-hearts-Rand meme wasn't created by liberals. You know who else said Ryan was a Rand "devotee"? Tucker Carlson, founder of the conservative Daily Caller. A year ago, Benjamin Domenech wrote that, contra New York magazine and other newspapers, "Paul Ryan Doesn't Require Staffers to Read Ayn Ran." For some reason, those staffers wouldn't say so on the record. Maybe that's because Ryan started the rumor himself. He's publicly talked about Rand on multiple occasions:

He told Insight on the News on May 24, 1999, that the books he most often rereads are "The Bible, Friedrich von Hayek's The Road to Serfdom and Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged."
He told the Weekly Standard on March 17, 2003, "I give out Atlas Shrugged as Christmas presents, and I make all my interns read it. Well... I try to make my interns read it."
At a February 28, 2009 speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington, Ryan said Obama was trying "to use this [financial] crisis to move America toward the sort of Europeanized economy… Sounds like something right out of an Ayn Rand novel."

At the 2005 birthday party for Rand, Ryan said, "Almost every fight we are involved in here on Capitol Hill... is a fight that usually comes down to one conflict -- individualism versus collectivism." That doesn't sound so "antithetical" to Rand's worldview. For decades, Rand has been popular among fiscal conservatives from Alan Greenspan to Rick Santellii. But it makes sense that a politician with national aspirations wouldn't want to be too closely associated with Rand, who not only espoused philosophy a little further right than your average voter -- "Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction" -- but was also a little weird. Ryan, the Wisconsin congressman and Republican budget wonk, has got tough competition to be Mitt Romney's running mate. There's the equally dreamy Marco Rubio, not to mention the pleasantly boring Rob Portman. So Ryan needs to fix any weaknesses. That's why Ryan gave a big foreign policy address last year, why he talked about his humble beginnings "flipping burgers" earlier this month, and probably why he's distancing himself from Ayn Rand. It's a genius spin, really -- not only does he reject her, he rejects her for socially conservative reasons!

Link (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/04/how-tell-paul-ryan-wants-be-veep-hes-rejected-his-former-idol-ayn-rand/51605/)

[FORD]

Geezus what's next? Will he pretend to reject the KKKoch Brothers too? Maybe if he really wants to convince people he's not an extremist nutbag, he'll renounce his own fascist budget proposals, then go back to Wisconsin and campaign for who ever the Democrats pick to remove that other KKKoch flunkie piece of shit from the governor's mansion.

[Nitro Express]

The VP pick is usually some brainless twit or a evil mastermind. You get either a complete idiot like Joe Biden or you get this really crafty mastermind like Dick Cheney. You either get someone who stays the hell out of the way or you get the ventriloquist of the dummy president. Maybe George HW Bush told Cheney "My son is a real idiot but we pulled enough strings in the system to shoe him into the oval office. Dick. Would you please stick your hand up my son's ass and further our New World Order plan? We ain't going to get that thousand points of light with George Jr really running the show. You might pick Rumsfeld as a cabinet member to help you out. And oh yeah, put some black person on the staff just to make things look more balanced."

[FORD]

Well, in Eddie Munster Ryan's case, he would be the brainless twit who is the puppet of the Stalinist KKKoch Brothers.

[Nitro Express]

Amazing how these oil barons could do business behind the iron curtain. Armand Hammer was the same way. Why? Like the Nazis, the communists were backed by western oligarchs. The Rockefellers were going into China and doing deals with chairman Mao before China opened up. I was told by a guy who worked in naval intelligence that he discovered the US was actually supporting Mao in secret while we were supporting Chaing Kai Shek in the open. This floored him and he thought about exposing it but was told to destroy his evidence because if he did try and expose it, he probably would be locked up. It's amazing what comes out when people holding secrets get old and just don't give a fuck anymore. They finally get off their chest what has been bothering them all those years.

There always was a plan to tear down the US while building China up. To make the world more even so it eventually could be ruled by oligarchs. The thing is they never can seem to control some of the people they put into power. Hitler went off script and became a loose cannon. The Chinese are doing their own thing. The EU seems to be coming apart. Really, the big oligarch stronghold now sadly is the US. We need to bust that up somehow.

[Seshmeister]

Ryan - Is he a man or is he a muppet?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Paul_Ryan%2C_official_portrait%2C_112th_Congress.j pg/220px-Paul_Ryan%2C_official_portrait%2C_112th_Congress.j pg http://www.nextmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/walter-500.jpg

[Nitro Express]

All these stuffed suit assholes wear a flag pin on their lapel. He actually looks like he type of fuckwit that comes strolling out when you are looking at cars and hovers around you when you are just fucking looking. Then you actually find yourself leaving even though you want to stay and look but he's hanging around, he won't go away and you really don't want to go for a fucking test drive or get a sales presentation.

[Seshmeister]

To be fair it seems that if they don't wear a flag pin some asshole in the media starts having a go at them, it's pathetic.

[jhale667]

Notice it didn't take long for the media to pull up every past kiss-ass statement Ryan made regarding Rand and prove he's completely full of it... :rolleyes:

[Terry]

Ryan may well reject Rand's religious views, but all his fiscal proposals reek of Rand's view that, in essence, the top 1% are better than the remaining 99% and the 99% are just a bunch of parasites who owe their existence to the kindness of the 1%.

[BigBadBrian]

LINK (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/vp-pick-coming-tomorrow_649727.html)

MITT ROMNEY ANNOUNCES VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IN NORFOLK SATURDAY

Boston, MA – On Saturday, Mitt Romney will begin his “The Romney Plan For A Stronger Middle Class” bus tour by announcing his choice for Vice Presidential candidate in Norfolk, Virginia. The following events are open to the press. Please note that the tour of the USS Wisconsin and Homemades by Suzanne drop by are pool coverage.

Saturday, August 11, 2012

Event: Governor Romney Tours USS Wisconsin

Location: USS Wisconsin

1 Waterside Drive

Norfolk, Virginia

Program Time: 8:45 AM EDT

Stephen F. Hayes and William Kristol report that Romney is preparing to pick Paul Ryan.

http://smartregion.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/USS-Wisconsin-Norfolk.jpg

[fourthcoming]

Fuck Romney AND Nobama.

[BigBadBrian]

Watch Obama get schooled by Paul Ryan:

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Did you go down there Brian?

I passed.... ;)

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Just a reminder that the anti-government Ayn Rand who @reppaulryan says inspired him to seek office, ended up on Social Security + Medicare— Keith Olbermann (@KeithOlbermann) August 11, 2012

[Nickdfresh]

Just a reminder that the anti-government Ayn Rand who @reppaulryan says inspired him to seek office, ended up on Social Security + Medicare— Keith Olbermann (@KeithOlbermann) August 11, 2012



And the anti-gov't politicians who want to shrink deficits routinely vote themselves raises, have excellent gov't benefits, and don't even work close to 200 days per year...

[LoungeMachine]

And this pick helped him how?

:gulp:

Gives Mittens Wisconsin?

Can't wait for the reporters' question: Mr Ryan, how many years of Tax Returns did The Romney Campaign have you disclose?

[Nickdfresh]

And by announcing it this early, the media, PAC's, and Admin can pick him apart more...

[FORD]

Book of Mormon/Atlas Shrugged 2012

BCE/KKKoch Brothers 2012

Dumb/Dumber 2012

Herman Munster/Eddie Munster 2012

Yeah, this is brilliant :lmao:

[FORD]

Fuck Romney AND Nobama.

www.voterocky.org

[Nitro Express]

Fuck Romney AND Nobama.

Yes fuck Shit and Obummer.

[Nitro Express]

www.voterocky.org

Rocky will buy you a beer. He has been known to do that.

[Nitro Express]

Watch Obama get schooled by Paul Ryan:



At least Ryan knows what he is talking about and doesn't need to have a former president do his press conference for him because he has no clue about financial matters.

[LoungeMachine]

At least Ryan knows what he is talking

Bullshit

:gulp:

[Nitro Express]

Obama can't talk financial matters without a script. He is lost. All he is good at is rallying a base of welfare recipients. The guy is as stupid if not more so than George W. Bush. He probably has his Columbia records locked up because he's hiding an Indonesian citizenship or he just plain has shitty grades. When an employer hires someone they check where they went to school and check their grades. I would say if you have a person running your country it's a good thing to check and if they lock them up then you have to question why. You only do that when you are hiding something.

The only thing Barrack has going for him is he has charisma and he can bullshit fairly well. That's about it. His celebrity equity is spent.

[FORD]

Bumping, because Mittens made it official.

[Nitro Express]

To be fair it seems that if they don't wear a flag pin some asshole in the media starts having a go at them, it's pathetic.

To counter that attitude someone should wear a flag lapel pin the size of a license plate. LOL!

[Nitro Express]

www.voterocky.org

I went to voterocky.org. I found this.



God she's so deliciouse! I didn't pay attention to anything Rocky said because I was too busy pounding my nuts off.

[FORD]

Alyona AND Rocky in the same interview? Now that's good TV. God bless RT!

[Sgt Schultz]

My Congressman will be your next VP and ultimately President. I've talked to him a few times. Once at a Memorial Day ceremony being held at a cemetary in Fulton, Wisconsin he fell in next to me in the front rank of a color guard I was in. He was a good sport. He's a good guy and a real Wisconsinite. Don't you feel better now? :clap:

[hambon4lif]

Did you go down there Brian?

I passed.... ;)Romney and Ryan are holding a campaign event later today in MAN-ASSas, Va.

It even sounds like a place you'd find Brie camping out at.....

[Guitar Shark]

Obama can't talk financial matters without a script. He is lost. All he is good at is rallying a base of welfare recipients. The guy is as stupid if not more so than George W. Bush. He probably has his Columbia records locked up because he's hiding an Indonesian citizenship or he just plain has shitty grades. When an employer hires someone they check where they went to school and check their grades. I would say if you have a person running your country it's a good thing to check and if they lock them up then you have to question why. You only do that when you are hiding something.


This may be the stupidest thing you've ever posted, and that's saying a lot.

Could you at least attempt to stop talking out of your ass occasionally?

[Little Texan]

Herman Munster/Eddie Munster 2012


http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/9/9/5/0/0/3/Mitt-Romney-78626023709.jpeghttp://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n298/denco428/eddiemunster.jpg
:biggrin:

[Nickdfresh]

My Congressman will be your next VP and ultimately President. I've talked to him a few times. Once at a Memorial Day ceremony being held at a cemetary in Fulton, Wisconsin he fell in next to me in the front rank of a color guard I was in. He was a good sport. He's a good guy and a real Wisconsinite. Don't you feel better now? :clap:

Yeah, because any politician that talks to you must be a great human being...Did he graciously shake your hand, too?

[gbranton]

You only do that when you are hiding something.

Didn't you know that only applies to Republicans.

[jhale667]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/185402_401506773247091_729949707_n.jpg

[Dr. Love]

http://i.imgur.com/lWHvN.jpg

[ELVIS]

God bless Russian KBG propaganda!

That's about right...

[FORD]

You mean, as opposed to BCE/CIA propaganda on FAUX Noize, or Mossad propaganda delivered by their agent Leslie Blitzer on AOLTimeCNNWarner?

[Nitro Express]

This may be the stupidest thing you've ever posted, and that's saying a lot.

Could you at least attempt to stop talking out of your ass occasionally?

You are the one talking out your ass. Specifically WHAT is stupid and WHY is it stupid? Just more partisan bullshit because I pointed out some unflattering truths about your team leader.

[Nitro Express]

You mean, as opposed to BCE/CIA propaganda on FAUX Noize, or Mossad propaganda delivered by their agent Leslie Blitzer on AOLTimeCNNWarner?

I hate to say it but you still can't get elected president of the United States without AIPAC's blessing. Israel made sure of that when Eisenhower told them to get the fuck out of the Sinai. That's why every US president that wants to stay in for another term kisses Israel's ass.

[Nitro Express]

Didn't you know that only applies to Republicans.

Gee. You mean some tax returns? It will probably go into a trading game. I will release my tax returns if you release your college records. At least with Romney you can check his college transcripts and has a social security number from a state he actually lived in.

[Nitro Express]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/185402_401506773247091_729949707_n.jpg

The guy on the left has a terrified look on his face. "Oh fuck, four more years." I will be paying so much money in taxes and higher utility bills, I will never be able to afford that Chevy Volt.

[Seshmeister]

Can someone explain to me what this ship is for?

http://smartregion.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/USS-Wisconsin-Norfolk.jpg

Seriously try and think of a scenario where the US will need this.

[BigBadBrian]

Can someone explain to me what this ship is for?

http://smartregion.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/USS-Wisconsin-Norfolk.jpg

Seriously try and think of a scenario where the US will need this.

It's a WWII Battleship, dipshit. It's now part of a museum.

[Nickdfresh]

It's a WWII Battleship, dipshit. It's now part of a museum.

The US Navy de-mothballed various units of the the Iowa/Missouri Class Battleship and used them into the 1990's. Even this ship could be brought back into service...


Can someone explain to me what this ship is for?

http://smartregion.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/USS-Wisconsin-Norfolk.jpg

Seriously try and think of a scenario where the US will need this.

There is none, it's a static display although some were used during the Cold War as giant gun platforms using their 16-inch guns for offshore bombardment. I always thought the fact they were so big was cool, but then their signature would have made them huge, expensive targets for Soviet subs and air-power...

[Nitro Express]

Can someone explain to me what this ship is for?

http://smartregion.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/USS-Wisconsin-Norfolk.jpg

Seriously try and think of a scenario where the US will need this.

It helped win a little spat called World War II. Since battleships are obsolete now it's been turned into a museum.

[Nickdfresh]

It helped win a little spat called World War II. Since battleships are obsolete now it's been turned into a museum.

Talking out of your ass again? As I said the ship was renovated and modernized in the 1980's with a relatively wasteful, short-term deployment and it was again deactivated in 1992. It could be brought back into active service probably a few months...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wisconsin_%28BB-64%29

[LoungeMachine]

At least with Romney you can check his college transcripts and has a social security number from a state he actually lived in.

Thanks for mentioning that....

:gulp:

Let's look into his voting record. Does anyone really believe his primary residence in Mass. was his son's basement?

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Can someone explain to me what this ship is for?

http://smartregion.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/USS-Wisconsin-Norfolk.jpg

Seriously try and think of a scenario where the US will need this.

It's a decent little area down there, a lot of time the Wisconsin is used for re-enlistments and retirement ceremonies....

[LoungeMachine]

It's a decent little area down there, a lot of time the Wisconsin is used for re-enlistments and retirement ceremonies....

A little more expensive to upkeep than the Lido Room at the local Marriott......

:gulp:

[Va Beach VH Fan]

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Ryan threads merged....

[Nickdfresh]

You are the one talking out your ass. Specifically WHAT is stupid and WHY is it stupid? Just more partisan bullshit because I pointed out some unflattering truths about your team leader.

I'm not speaking for him, but I'm sure it is regarding your tendency to completely just make shit up and throw it out as fact in your posts and to authoritatively comment on stuff you haven't a clue on...

[ELVIS]

Nitro's posts are grounded in reality much more than yours...

[Nickdfresh]

Just like a blackman grounded his penis in your wife much deeper than you did...

[ELVIS]

Oh, you told me that time didn't you...

But the effect is lust like the first five times you posted your "Blackman" racist fantasy...LAME

Why do you feel like you gotta repeat the same bullshit over and over, anyway ??

[Nickdfresh]

Oh, you told me that time didn't you...

I guess, you responded to it. :)


But the effect is lust like the first five times you posted your "Blackman" racist fantasy...LAME

I've really never fantasized about a blackman fucking your ugly wife....


Why do you feel like you gotta repeat the same bullshit over and over, anyway ??

You tell me...

[kwame k]

Oh, you told me that time didn't you...

But the effect is lust like the first five times you posted your "Blackman" racist fantasy...LAME

Why do you feel like you gotta repeat the same bullshit over and over, anyway ??

Freudian slip much;)

[Nickdfresh]

Freudian slip much;)

Ha ha! We're just making up Elbow's racist meltdowns...

[Nickdfresh]

Dupie poops...

[Nitro Express]

We are never going to fix anything without both sides coming together. What are the main problems? Crony capitalism which is no longer free market capitalism and not enough jobs that offer any growth potential.

I think the political process is bought and paid for and in many cases the legal system is compromised. We have so many people on food stamps and other government assistance that taking that away would basically mean genocide. The problem is those people need the government and don't want to rock the boat because it's their source of food and shelter. So they aren't going to stand up to anything.

That doesn't stop the continued destruction of what's left of the private economy and you have people that will never get on welfare but then you have the right wing suckering them into thinking massive government cuts overnight is the way to go.

If you look at this long-term and realistically the only card the public can play is massive general strikes. Start shutting things down but this needs to be organized which traditionally is unions. The thing is we don't have the manufacturing we used to so we don't have the unions we used to have. Some of the unions are corrupt. But there is still a chance things could organize that way and that is why the Romney types want to break unions which is not a good thing.

The problem we have right now is the public is divided and we don't have a well defined foe to organize against but we can define the problems which is not enough living wage jobs for the population and a banking system that has shut us out of the political process.

The Democratic party at it's best was the living wage party and legitimate civil rights came out of it. If people can get the attitude back that we want an honest wage for an honest days work instead of the attitude of a free lunch we might be able to turn things. Where Obama is failing is he is selling the free lunch to get re-elected. Long-term the welfare programs need to transform into get you back to work programs. We need some entry-level jobs with the opportunity to improve your education again. Without that nothing is going to change.

But everyone agrees, we need real jobs, we need the cost of healthcare and education reduced, and we need banking regulation. The problem is there is no leadership anyone trusts to do those things.

[Nitro Express]

Talking out of your ass again? As I said the ship was renovated and modernized in the 1980's with a relatively wasteful, short-term deployment and it was again deactivated in 1992. It could be brought back into active service probably a few months...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wisconsin_%28BB-64%29

Picky Picky. I got to board the New Jersey when it came into the Port of Seattle years ago. You are right, the old battle wagons were upgraded to be missile launch platforms. I think Reagan just wanted to get them out of mothballs and see them sail again. They still are battleships and battleships were obsolete by the end of World War II. Good for shelling the beach which we did during the Gulf War to make ol' Saddam think we were making an amphibious invasion on his coast line.

[jhale667]

Why do you feel like you gotta repeat the same bullshit over and over, anyway ??


You might want to ask yourself that question first, idiot.

[jhale667]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/293140_462171423817280_495556262_n.jpg

[kwame k]

Here's a nice Ayn Rand-ish one!

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/realtodd/Paul2.jpg

[kwame k]

Great vid here......We're heading back to the good ole days of Compassionate Conservatism;)

[ELVIS]

Burrock Oh bye bye...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Here's a nice Ayn Rand-ish one!

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/realtodd/Paul2.jpg

To be fair, for a little context, "used social security benefits" should also include "due to the death of his father when Ryan was 18"....

[ELVIS]

Ryan was 16 when his father died, but facts don't matter to these Obama supporters...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Ryan was 16 when his father died, but facts don't matter to these Obama supporters...

I stand corrected....

[ELVIS]

Waukesha (http://m.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/romneyryan-rally-planned-for-waukesha-sunday-night-096f6lt-165842666.html) - Brushing aside tears and responding to raucous cheers, U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan returned to Wisconsin on Sunday for an emotional homecoming in front of thousands of people on the grounds of the Waukesha County Expo Center.

"It's good to be home," Ryan said in a speech that wove personal history and national aspiration.

A day after he was named Mitt Romney's running mate and vaulted on to the Republican Party's biggest political stage, Ryan spoke of his family's deep roots in Wisconsin and his ties to Janesville, where "we live on the block I grew up on."

"My veins run with cheese, bratwurst, a little Spotted Cow, Leinie's and some Miller," he said. "I was raised on the Packers, Badgers, Bucks and Brewers.

"I like to hunt here, I like to fish here, I like to snowmobile here. I even think ice fishing is interesting. I'm a Wisconsinite through and through."

Despite dark skies that threatened rain, the weather remained pleasant for the early evening appearances by Ryan and the GOP's presumptive presidential nominee, Romney. The sun peeked through clouds to light the stage during most of the 26 minutes of speeches by the newly minted Republican ticket.

In many ways, this was a Ryan family affair, the candidate saying hello to his mother, Betty, from the stage, while also speaking warmly about his wife, Janna, and children, Liza, Charles and Sam. He also joked that half the crowd was made up of the extended Ryan family.

Ryan saluted three other Wisconsin Republicans who have achieved national prominence: Gov. Scott Walker, Republican National Committee chairman Reince Priebus and U.S. Sen. Ron Johnson.

"We're just guys from Tosa, Kenosha, Oshkosh and Janesville," Ryan said "What we learned in this state, just a little while ago, is that we want to elect men and women who run for office and tell us who they really are, what they really believe, what they're really going to do, and when they get elected, they do that.

"That's what we do here in Wisconsin."

Ryan framed the fall campaign between the Republicans and Presi dent Barack Obama as a stark choice.

"Do we want that opportunity society, a safety net, a land of upward mobility, where people can make the most of their lives, where people can get ahead?" Ryan said. "Or, do we want to go down the path of debt, doubt and despair. Do we want to copy Europe? No."

Ryan said, "We want to have the kind of an election where we earn your support, where we win an election because you said, 'Go fix the mess in Washington.' So when we win the election, we go fix this mess in Washington."

Romney lauded his new running mate "as someone who is a leader . . . who has real character, who loves America," before quickly stepping up the rhetoric against Obama.

"If you follow the campaign of Barack Obama, he's going to do everything in his power to make this the lowest, meanest negative campaign in history. We're not going to let that happen," Romney said.

He declared: "Mr. President, take your campaign out of the gutter and let's talk about the real issues that America faces."

Feisty and animated, Romney appeared to draw new energy from his new running mate. He easily brushed aside a heckler near the stage, telling him, "You ought to find yourself a different place to be disruptive because here we believe in listening to people with dignity and respect."

The Romney-Ryan ticket ignited the Republican base in its Wisconsin heartland. Roads were jammed for miles as thousands of people vied to get an up-close-and-personal view of the GOP's national ticket. Romney-Ryan T-shirts were big sellers, and people waved Romney-Ryan placards.

"This pair is fantastic," said Mary Lou Kavon of Verona. She called Ryan an outstanding pick by Romney and predicted they would win in the fall.

She said Ryan was a great choice because of his fiscal conservatism and knowledge of the federal budget.

Sharon Roder of Waukesha said she couldn't be more pleased with the Ryan pick.

"He's a good Christian, outstanding character, just a really incredible guy," Roder said. "He's very conservative, which is very important."

Despite the celebratory tone of the event, U.S. Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner of Menomonee Falls introduced a dose of caution on the problems plaguing the country.

"A Romney administration will change business as usual," he said. "This administration will be controversial. It will cause pain" to restore the economy.

Obama weighed in on Ryan's selection during a fundraising event in Chicago.

"Just yesterday, my opponent chose his running mate, the ideological leader of Republicans in Congress, Mr. Paul Ryan. . . . I want to congratulate Congressman Ryan. I know him. I welcome him to the race."

Obama said, "Congressman Ryan is a decent man. He is a family man. He's an articulate spokesman for Governor Romney's vision. But it's a vision that I fundamentally disagree with."

Wisconsin Democrats also weighed in on Ryan's rise to the No. 2 spot on the Republican ticket.

"While in places like Janesville, I'm sure there's a certain pride for having Paul on the ticket, this state and nation are focusing on the future of this country," Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett said.

Barrett added that the policies of Romney and Ryan "are based on a flawed economic theory, a trickle-down economic theory that takes us back to the past."

Still buzzing from the rollout of the ticket Saturday in Virginia, Romney and Ryan began Sunday with campaign rallies in North Carolina.

They also sat down for a joint interview with "60 Minutes" during which they tried to blunt Democratic criticism of Ryan's budget plans, particularly his proposal to transform Medicare into a voucher system for younger Americans.

"My mom is a Medicare senior in Florida," Ryan told CBS. "Our point is, we need to preserve their benefits because government made promises to them that they've organized their retirements around. In order to make sure we can do that, you must reform it for those of us who are younger. And we think these reforms are good reforms that have bipartisan origins. They started from the Clinton commission in the late '90s."

In an interview with CNN, Obama's senior campaign adviser, David Axelrod, called Ryan "a right-wing ideologue" and said his selection as Romney's running mate "has helped further define the race."

"I don't think it has shaken up the race, because Governor Romney has embraced many of the positions that Congressman Ryan espouses, extreme as they sound," Axelrod said.

Democrats appear to be rushing to define Ryan before he can define himself to a national audience. Before his selection Saturday, about 43% of Americans said they hadn't heard of Ryan, according to a series of You Gov polls for the Comparative Campaign Analysis project.

After the event, the Ryan-Romney entourage headed to Mitchell International Airport. Romney and Ryan grasped one another and said goodbye before heading to separate airplanes.


:elvis:

[jhale667]

Ryan was 16 when his father died, but facts don't matter to these Obama supporters...

Untrue. The only reason I'd fault him for this is if he wants to take the same opportunity he had to finish school away from others.

[ELVIS]

That's just spin...

[Sgt Schultz]

The US Navy de-mothballed various units of the the Iowa/Missouri Class Battleship and used them into the 1990's. Even this ship could be brought back into service...

There is none, it's a static display although some were used during the Cold War as giant gun platforms using their 16-inch guns for offshore bombardment. I always thought the fact they were so big was cool, but then their signature would have made them huge, expensive targets for Soviet subs and air-power...

The USS Wisconsin shelled the shit out of the Iraqis in Kuwait and it also launched cruise missles into Iraq. The Iraqis feared it so much that they surrendered to the Wisconsin's reconnaissance/artillery spotting drone. It's plenty useful.

[Nickdfresh]

The USS Wisconsin shelled the shit out of the Iraqis in Kuwait and it also launched cruise missles into Iraq. The Iraqis feared it so much that they surrendered to the Wisconsin's reconnaissance/artillery spotting drone. It's plenty useful.

I never said they were useless, the 16" rifles alone are pretty psychologically intimidating. But that was against the Iraqis; against the Chinese or Iranians armed with Sunburn missiles, things might not be so one-sided...

[FORD]

What Wisconsin Journalists Want You To Know About Paul Ryan
Blog ››› August 12, 2012 12:25 PM EDT ››› JOE STRUPP (http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/08/12/what-wisconsin-journalists-want-you-to-know-abo/189288)

Local Wisconsin reporters say that as the national media begins to scrutinize Rep. Paul Ryan's (R-WI) life and career following his selection as Mitt Romney's running mate, they may overlook details such as his inside-the-Beltway focus, the high level of unemployment in his hometown, and his family connection to the natural gas industry.

In the early stages of such reviews, news outlets are often dependent on the campaigns themselves, prior national coverage of the candidate, and even Wikipedia for insight and can miss the kind of information local reporters who have covered the vice presidential selection for years may know best.

Media Matters went to some of those local reporters in Wisconsin and asked for their take on the information voters, and reporters, need most but may miss as they look at Ryan's career.

One issue most journalists raised was that Ryan left Wisconsin at a young age and climbed the political ladder in Washington. One local scribe compared him to Dick Cheney in that regard, stating both men rose to the top by focusing on D.C. connections and not in home state political circles.

"The way to understand him is he is Dick Cheney, he is a guy who went to Washington as soon as he could, rooted himself in the establishment, got himself elected as soon as he could and became a major player," said John Nichols, an associate editor at the Capital Times in Madison. "He is Dick Cheney with very good hair."

Other Wisconsin news people who have covered Ryan describe him as likeable and accessible to reporters, but something of an unknown even to local voters who re-elect him regularly despite his hometown being hit by hard economic times.

Scott Angus, editor of The Janesville Gazette, the daily newspaper in Ryan's hometown, described Ryan's fellow residents as having mixed views on their representative.

"The people of Janesville are probably as divided about Paul Ryan as the rest of the country," Angus said Saturday, hours after Ryan was announced as Romney's choice. "A lot of people would view [Ryan's opinions] as pretty conservative and pretty far to the right and that does not sit well with a lot of people in his district."

Angus, a 21-year editor of the paper, added, "He has lived here, but he has not worked here much, he has been in Washington working on his career path. I think a lot of people are surprised because he has always said his plans were not to rise to national office. He never had any elected office until he was elected to Congress."

But Janesville's recent past is also important, several reporters said, citing the town's difficult economic situation, sparked by the closure of a General Motors plant in 2009.

"Their unemployment rate is double digits," said Jeff Flynt, a news reporter at WTAQ Radio in Green Bay. "For a state that is trying to turn around the business aspects of the state the fact that Janesville unemployment continues to be pretty high and you have a guy who is known pretty well nationally and has not found a way to help the plant or put something in its place, that may catch" the national media's attention.

He added, "Paul's district has no big city in it. It is small cities, small towns and farms. He has had a congressional career that has gone largely under the radar."

"There are people in his district shocked to find out he was a big player on budget stuff. He has been able to define his own story.He didn't really spend any time in state politics and right out of college he went right into interning. While he is a Wisconsin congressman, he is not somebody who came up through the state ranks."

Columnist Dan Bice of the Journal Sentinel in Milwaukee, offered a similar view, saying "His hometown has been hurt economically, GM pulled out of there and some have said he has not done a lot to help out. The recession has hit Janesville as much as anywhere."

The Bureau of Labor Statistics data on Janesville finds unemployment spiked to more than 15 percent when the plant closed and was above 10 percent as recently as February.

Bice cited several other elements of Ryan's past that could be of interest to the national debate. He noted ties to a Kenosha businessman, Dennis Troha, who pled guilty in 2007 to illegal campaign contributions to the Wisconsin Democratic Party and to President Bush's 2004 re-election campaign. Troha had funneled donations to those campaign committees through family members. Troha and his family and associates had also given more than $58,000 to Ryan's campaigns over several years.

Ryan donated the Troha contributions to his campaign to charity in the wake of the scandal according to the Journal Sentinel.

"People will look into the connection with his father-in-law who is pretty heavily into natural gas and several people have raised the issue of fracking and his support of that," Bice said about Daniel Little, Ryan's father-in-law, who owns interests in four companies that lease land for mining and drilling by energy companies.

Another piece of Ryan's life that was mentioned by several Badger State journalists is his praise for Ayn Rand, the controversial atheist author and her books, Atlas Shrugged and Fountainhead, which promote objectivism, the belief that individualism and self-interest is the key to success and happiness.

"There are things that are sort of known among the intelligencia that could become a little weird," said Nichols. "For instance, the Ayn Rand stuff. He has read Fountainhead, he has said it inspired him to go into politics, it is hyper individualist, no government at all. Ayn Rand was an atheist and you tie that kind of stuff to the vice presidential candidate and it is a lot to talk about."

Bice and Nichols both agreed Ryan's image back home is somewhat different than his D.C. persona as a fiscal hardliner.

"He is a deer hunter," Bice said. "He is not the sort of guy who is reading James Joyce. He is a smart guy, a clean cut guy."

Nichols agreed, stating:

"He is a genuinely nice guy who operates in almost an 18th Century, 19th Century view of partisan politics; a very old school, 'we are all Americans,' type arguing about fundamental issues but the hyper-partisanship has not really been a part of who he is. He is not thought of as the attack dog who makes the hit on someone."

[Nickdfresh]

John Nichols, an associate editor at the Capital Times in Madison (said) "He is Dick Cheney with very good hair."

And a much, much better ticker and better aim apparently...

[Sgt Schultz]

What Wisconsin Journalists Want You To Know About Paul Ryan
Blog ››› August 12, 2012 12:25 PM EDT ››› JOE STRUPP (http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/08/12/what-wisconsin-journalists-want-you-to-know-abo/189288)

Local Wisconsin reporters say that as the national media begins to scrutinize Rep. Paul Ryan's (R-WI) life and career following his selection as Mitt Romney's running mate, they may overlook details such as his inside-the-Beltway focus, the high level of unemployment in his hometown, and his family connection to the natural gas industry.

In the early stages of such reviews, news outlets are often dependent on the campaigns themselves, prior national coverage of the candidate, and even Wikipedia for insight and can miss the kind of information local reporters who have covered the vice presidential selection for years may know best.

Media Matters went to some of those local reporters in Wisconsin and asked for their take on the information voters, and reporters, need most but may miss as they look at Ryan's career.

One issue most journalists raised was that Ryan left Wisconsin at a young age and climbed the political ladder in Washington. One local scribe compared him to Dick Cheney in that regard, stating both men rose to the top by focusing on D.C. connections and not in home state political circles.

"The way to understand him is he is Dick Cheney, he is a guy who went to Washington as soon as he could, rooted himself in the establishment, got himself elected as soon as he could and became a major player," said John Nichols, an associate editor at the Capital Times in Madison. "He is Dick Cheney with very good hair."

Other Wisconsin news people who have covered Ryan describe him as likeable and accessible to reporters, but something of an unknown even to local voters who re-elect him regularly despite his hometown being hit by hard economic times.

Scott Angus, editor of The Janesville Gazette, the daily newspaper in Ryan's hometown, described Ryan's fellow residents as having mixed views on their representative.

"The people of Janesville are probably as divided about Paul Ryan as the rest of the country," Angus said Saturday, hours after Ryan was announced as Romney's choice. "A lot of people would view [Ryan's opinions] as pretty conservative and pretty far to the right and that does not sit well with a lot of people in his district."

Angus, a 21-year editor of the paper, added, "He has lived here, but he has not worked here much, he has been in Washington working on his career path. I think a lot of people are surprised because he has always said his plans were not to rise to national office. He never had any elected office until he was elected to Congress."

But Janesville's recent past is also important, several reporters said, citing the town's difficult economic situation, sparked by the closure of a General Motors plant in 2009.

"Their unemployment rate is double digits," said Jeff Flynt, a news reporter at WTAQ Radio in Green Bay. "For a state that is trying to turn around the business aspects of the state the fact that Janesville unemployment continues to be pretty high and you have a guy who is known pretty well nationally and has not found a way to help the plant or put something in its place, that may catch" the national media's attention.

He added, "Paul's district has no big city in it. It is small cities, small towns and farms. He has had a congressional career that has gone largely under the radar."

"There are people in his district shocked to find out he was a big player on budget stuff. He has been able to define his own story.He didn't really spend any time in state politics and right out of college he went right into interning. While he is a Wisconsin congressman, he is not somebody who came up through the state ranks."

Columnist Dan Bice of the Journal Sentinel in Milwaukee, offered a similar view, saying "His hometown has been hurt economically, GM pulled out of there and some have said he has not done a lot to help out. The recession has hit Janesville as much as anywhere."

The Bureau of Labor Statistics data on Janesville finds unemployment spiked to more than 15 percent when the plant closed and was above 10 percent as recently as February.

Bice cited several other elements of Ryan's past that could be of interest to the national debate. He noted ties to a Kenosha businessman, Dennis Troha, who pled guilty in 2007 to illegal campaign contributions to the Wisconsin Democratic Party and to President Bush's 2004 re-election campaign. Troha had funneled donations to those campaign committees through family members. Troha and his family and associates had also given more than $58,000 to Ryan's campaigns over several years.

Ryan donated the Troha contributions to his campaign to charity in the wake of the scandal according to the Journal Sentinel.

"People will look into the connection with his father-in-law who is pretty heavily into natural gas and several people have raised the issue of fracking and his support of that," Bice said about Daniel Little, Ryan's father-in-law, who owns interests in four companies that lease land for mining and drilling by energy companies.

Another piece of Ryan's life that was mentioned by several Badger State journalists is his praise for Ayn Rand, the controversial atheist author and her books, Atlas Shrugged and Fountainhead, which promote objectivism, the belief that individualism and self-interest is the key to success and happiness.

"There are things that are sort of known among the intelligencia that could become a little weird," said Nichols. "For instance, the Ayn Rand stuff. He has read Fountainhead, he has said it inspired him to go into politics, it is hyper individualist, no government at all. Ayn Rand was an atheist and you tie that kind of stuff to the vice presidential candidate and it is a lot to talk about."

Bice and Nichols both agreed Ryan's image back home is somewhat different than his D.C. persona as a fiscal hardliner.

"He is a deer hunter," Bice said. "He is not the sort of guy who is reading James Joyce. He is a smart guy, a clean cut guy."

Nichols agreed, stating:

"He is a genuinely nice guy who operates in almost an 18th Century, 19th Century view of partisan politics; a very old school, 'we are all Americans,' type arguing about fundamental issues but the hyper-partisanship has not really been a part of who he is. He is not thought of as the attack dog who makes the hit on someone."

BS. I live in Janesville. Most of the sources for this story are leftist pinko-commies. Everyone knows the unions killed GM in Janesville. Most people also know Ryan is a both a good guy and that he is also very knowledgeable regarding fiscal policy in Washington. Argus' paper is also a joke.

[ELVIS]

If that's all Media Matters can come up with Paul must be pretty darn clean...

[jhale667]

If that's all Media Matters can come up with Paul must be pretty darn clean...

There's that part about him worshipping chain-smoking racist sociopath Ayn Rand...

[FORD]

Ryan may very well come off as a "nice guy" personally, and if John Nichols thinks he's a "nice guy", then it's probably genuine enough.

But then, my grandfather used to work with a man whom everybody in the office thought was a "nice guy" too.

That nice guy was named Ted Bundy.

Is it fair to compare Paul Ryan to a serial killer? Well, he is a Randtard, and Ayn Rand's entire fucked up "philosophy" was based on her worship of a serial killer named William Edward Hickman. Paul Ryan might not physically murder and dismember people like his hero (by one degree of separation) did, but his planned destruction of Medicare and Social Security certainly would amount to mass murder.

[FORD]

So does this mean that ELVIS the fundagelical "Christian" is now supporting a Mormon cultist and his sidekick, the fan of the Atheist serial killer groupie?

I could see you becoming a fan of this ticket, if Mittens had picked Piyush Jindal, but we all know why that didn't happen, right?

Repukes have spent the last 4 years complaining about a brown skinned guy with a funny name who was raised around a "foreign" religion, so they couldn't go with the Indian guy who grew up as a practicing Hindu (and then converted to Catholicism and performed exorcisms on his college roomates)

But seriously..... how does your Alex Jones psuedo Libertarian mentality justify supporting these two dweebs?

[FORD]

The Huffington Post | By Chris Gentilviso Posted: 08/12/2012 5:24 pm

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) took a stroll down memory lane on Sunday, drawing some comparisons between his 2008 vice presidential selection and Mitt Romney's 2012 decision.

In an interview on "Fox News Sunday," the veteran senator expressed nothing but approval for Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), calling him an "excellent choice."

The news prompted McCain to circle back to his 2008 campaign. He noted how the vice presidential selection can provide a boost in battleground states, while reinforcing his satisfaction with Sarah Palin serving as his running mate.

“First of all, the selection is made as to who will best help you get nominated and who you believe is best suited for the role of vice president of the United States,” McCain said. “At that time — I’m still proud of my running mate. I’m proud of Sarah and her family and I’m proud of the work that we did.”

“Many people thought that other people who were being considered might bring home those states into the Romney column," he added. "I think this is a pretty bold choice as well. And I think it’s a good matchup because of Paul Ryan’s ability to carry a Romney agenda through the Congress of the United States, and his intimate knowledge of the budget.”

McCain's support for the Palin pick comes a month after he vowed that she was a better candidate than Romney for his VP slot. Two weeks later, Vice President Dick Cheney lambasted his decision in an ABC News interview, bluntly casting the Palin pick as a "mistake."

"I like Governor Palin," Cheney said. "I've met her. I know her. She – attractive candidate. But based on her background, she’d only been governor for, what, two years. I don't think she passed that test … of being ready to take over.

McCain fired back the following Monday, turning to a notable disagreement he had with Cheney over the Bush administration's policies on torture.

"I'm always glad to get comments four years later," said McCain on July 30's edition of "Fox & Friends." "Look, I respect the vice president. He and I had strong disagreements as to whether we should torture people or not. I don't think we should have."

[ELVIS]

But seriously..... how does your Alex Jones psuedo Libertarian mentality justify supporting these two dweebs?

I'm not supporting them, I'm just exploring my options...

The reasons I can't support this ticket are the following:

Both Ryan and Romney support the military industrial complex and war with Iran...

Both support the indefinite detention bill...

Ryan voted to support the patriot act three times...

Both support wireless surveillance...

Ryan supported the stimulus and auto bailouts...

Romney has way too many globalist banker and wallstreet ties...

Romney might be better than Obama for the private sector and small business (which is very important to me) but I'm not willing to look away from the infringements on my freedom...

Gary "Who?" Johnson 2012


:biggrin:

[FORD]

The thing is, Gary Johnson supports all the same corruption except for possibly the foreign invasions.

He may not admit to doing it, but the Libertarian Randtard fairytale of total deregulation means that all restraint is removed from predatory capitalism.

Everything that has gone wrong the last 30 years - the meda, the banks, big pharma, the "defense" industry, etc. can all be traced directly to DEregulation.

www.voterocky.org

[ELVIS]

The regulation powers should be at the state level...

Over reaching federal regulation favors big corporations and puts huge burdens on small business...

[ELVIS]

Oops...

[FORD]

By Igor Volsky on Aug 11, 2012 at 8:27 am

Mitt Romney has picked as his running mate 42 year-old Republican Congressman Paul Ryan (R-WI), the architect of the GOP budget, which the New York Times has described as “the most extreme budget plan passed by a house of Congress in modern times.” Below are 12 things you should know about Ryan and his policies:

1. Ryan embraces the extreme philosophy of Ayn Rand.
Ryan heaped praise on Ayn Rand, a 20th-century libertarian novelist best known for her philosophy that centered on the idea that selfishness is “virtue.” Rand described altruism as “evil,” condemned Christianity for advocating compassion for the poor, viewed the feminist movement as “phony,” and called Arabs “almost totally primitive savages. Though he publicly rejected “her philosophy” in 2012, Ryan had professed himself a strong devotee. “The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand,” he said at a D.C. gathering honoring the author of “Atlas Shrugged” and “The Fountainhead.” “I give out ‘Atlas Shrugged’ as Christmas presents, and I make all my interns read it. Well… I try to make my interns read it.” Learn more about Ryan’s muse:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7zwO88nRH8

2. Ryan wants to raises taxes on the middle class, cut them for millionaires.
Paul Ryan’s infamous budget — which Romney embraced — replaces “the current tax structure with two brackets — 25 percent and 10 percent — and cut the top rate from 35 percent.” Federal tax collections would fall “by about $4.5 trillion over the next decade” as a result and to avoid increasing the national debt, the budget proposes massive cuts in social programs and “special-interest loopholes and tax shelters that litter the code.” But 62 percent of the savings would come from programs that benefit the lower- and middle-classes, who would also experience a tax increase. That’s because while Ryan “would extend the Bush tax cuts, which are due to expire at the end of this year, he would not extend President Obama’s tax cuts for those with the lowest incomes, which will expire at the same time.” Households “earning more than $1 million a year, meanwhile, could see a net tax cut of about $300,000 annually.”

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ryanraisestaxes.jpeg

Audiences have booed Ryan for the unfair distribution:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5kgnE1Xvec

3. Ryan wants to end Medicare, replace it with a voucher system.
Ryan’s latest budget transforms the existing version of Medicare, in which government provides seniors with a guaranteed benefit, into a “premium support” system. All future retirees would receive a government contribution to purchase insurance from an exchange of private plans or traditional fee-for-service Medicare. But since the premium support voucher does not keep up with increasing health care costs, the Congressional Budget Offices estimates that new beneficiaries could pay up to $1,200 more by 2030 and more than $5,900 more by 2050. A recent study also found that had the plan been implemented in 2009, 24 million beneficiares enrolled in the program would have paid higher premiums to maintain their choice of plan and doctors. Ryan would also raise Medicare’s age of eligibility to 67.

4. Ryan thinks Social Security is a “ponzi scheme.”
In September of 2011, Ryan agreed with Rick Perry’s characterization of Social Security as a “Ponzi scheme” and since 2005 has advocated for privatizing the retirement benefit and investing it in stocks and bonds. Conservatives claim that this would “outperform the current formula based on wages earned and overall wage appreciation,” but the economic crisis of 2008 should serve as a wake-up call for policymakers who seek to hinge Americans’ retirement on the stock market. In fact, “a person with a private Social Security account similar to what President George W. Bush proposed in 2005″ would have lost much of their retirement savings.

5. Ryan’s budget would result in 4.1 million lost jobs in 2 years.
Ryan’s budget calls for massive reductions in government spending. He has proposed cutting discretionary programs by about $120 billion over the next two years and mandatory programs by $284 billion, which, the Economic Policy Institute estimates, would suck demand out of the economy and “reduce employment by 1.3 million jobs in fiscal 2013 and 2.8 million jobs in fiscal 2014, relative to current budget policies.”

6. Ryan wants to eliminate Pell Grants for more more than 1 million students.
Ryan’s budget claims both that rising financial aid is driving college tuition costs upward, and that Pell Grants, which help cover tuition costs for low-income Americans, don’t go to the “truly needy.” So he cuts the Pell Grant program by $200 billion, which could “ultimately knock more than one million students off” the program over the next 10 years.

7. Ryan supports $40 billion in subsides for big oil.
In 2011, Ryan joined all House Republicans and 13 Democrats in his vote to keep Big Oil tax loopholes as part of the FY 2011 spending bill. His budget would retain a decade’s worth of oil tax breaks worth $40 billion, while cutting “billions of dollars from investments to develop alternative fuels and clean energy technologies that would serve as substitutes for oil.” For instance, it “calls for a $3 billion cut in energy programs in FY 2013 alone” and would spend only $150 million over five years — or 20 percent of what was invested in 2012 — on energy programs.

8. Ryan has ownership stakes in companies that benefit from oil subsidies .
Ryan “and his wife, Janna, own stakes in four family companies that lease land in Texas and Oklahoma to the very energy companies that benefit from the tax subsidies in Ryan’s budget plan,” the Daily Beast reported in June of 2011. “Ryan’s father-in-law, Daniel Little, who runs the companies, told Newsweek and The Daily Beast that the family companies are currently leasing the land for mining and drilling to energy giants such as Chesapeake Energy, Devon, and XTO Energy, a recently acquired subsidiary of ExxonMobil.”


9. Ryan claimed Romneycare has led to “rationing and benefit cuts.” “I’m not a fan of [Romney's health care reform] system,” Ryan told C-SPAN in 2010. He argued that government is rationing care in the state and claimed that people are “seeing the system bursting by the seams, they’re seeing premium increases, rationing and benefit cuts.” He called the system “a fatal conceit” and “unsustainable.” Watch it:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnYlx3Rh-Lg

10. Ryan believes that Romneycare is “not that dissimilar to Obamacare.”
Though Romney has gone to great lengths to distinguish his Massachusetts health care law from Obamacare, Ryan doesn’t see the difference. “It’s not that dissimilar to Obamacare, and you probably know I’m not a big fan of Obamacare,” Ryan said at a breakfast meeting sponsored by the American Spectator in March of 2011. “I just don’t think the mandates work … all the regulation they’ve put on it…I think it’s beginning to death spiral. They’re beginning to have to look at rationing decisions.”

11. Ryan accused generals of lying about their support for Obama’s military budget.
In March, Ryan couldn’t believe that Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey supports Obama’s Pentagon budget, which incorporates $487 billion in cuts over 10 years. “We don’t think the generals are giving us their true advice,” Ryan said at a policy summit hosted by the National Journal. “We don’t think the generals believe that their budget is really the right budget.” He later apologized for the implication. Watch it:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE4I1rSPrrY

12. Ryan co-sponsored a “personhood” amendment, an extreme anti-abortion measure.
Ryan joined 62 other Republicans in co-sponsoring the Sanctity of Human Life Act, which declares that a fertilized egg “shall have all the legal and constitutional attributes and privileges of personhood.” This would outlaw abortion, some forms of contraception and invitro fertilization.

[Unchainme]

Ryan may very well come off as a "nice guy" personally, and if John Nichols thinks he's a "nice guy", then it's probably genuine enough.

But then, my grandfather used to work with a man whom everybody in the office thought was a "nice guy" too.

That nice guy was named Ted Bundy.

OT as all hell.

But, I read online that Bundy was a Huskies fan? And that when he escaped in 78 he actually went to a bar in ann arbor to watch them play in the rose bowl.

That was the most bizarre story I had ever heard.

[FORD]

OT as all hell.

But, I read online that Bundy was a Huskies fan? And that when he escaped in 78 he actually went to a bar in ann arbor to watch them play in the rose bowl.

That was the most bizarre story I had ever heard.

Probably the most bizarre part about it is that he watched the game in Ann Arbor, and didn't get caught....

Because I remember that game very well, and I know that the Dawgs played the Michigan Wolverines in that game. (Beat them 27-20, in fact) So if Ted were rooting for the Huskies in a Michigan bar, he's lucky he didn't get in a fight, and have the cops called on him. :biggrin:

[Unchainme]

Probably the most bizarre part about it is that he watched the game in Ann Arbor, and didn't get caught....

Because I remember that game very well, and I know that the Dawgs played the Michigan Wolverines in that game. (Beat them 27-20, in fact) So if Ted were rooting for the Huskies in a Michigan bar, he's lucky he didn't get in a fight, and have the cops called on him. :biggrin:

Warren Moon and Don James FTW. (James is from Kent State)

Really that is bizarre though. Most serial killers don't strike me as people who'd be remotely interested in football.

I'd love to hear an interview with the bar patrons there, and if he even conversed with any of them there, because again, it's just flat out weird.

BTW, did you know that the guy who does "The Soup" was a Tightend on one of the Rose Bowl teams in the mid-90's?

[FORD]

BTW, did you know that the guy who does "The Soup" was a Tightend on one of the Rose Bowl teams in the mid-90's?

I don't remember him playing for the Dawgs, but I knew he was from Seattle, because he was on Almost Live in the later years. Here he is (go 3:00 into the clip) making fun of WSU like any true Husky would :biggrin:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8WcGwCIzTQ

[jhale667]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8pf1pelyY1qav5oho1_500.jpg

[Dr. Love]

The thing is, Gary Johnson supports all the same corruption except for possibly the foreign invasions.

He may not admit to doing it, but the Libertarian Randtard fairytale of total deregulation means that all restraint is removed from predatory capitalism.

Everything that has gone wrong the last 30 years - the meda, the banks, big pharma, the "defense" industry, etc. can all be traced directly to DEregulation.

www.voterocky.org

I don't think Gary Johnson supports the things ELVIS listed out as objectionable to him about Romney/Ryan. And drawing a correlation between any "nice guy" and Ted Bundy is fairly silly. On an unrelated topic, it is interesting to note that both Barack Obama and Jeffrey Dahmer are both adult males. Is it fair to compare Obama to a serial killer cannibal on such a tenuous and incidental association? I say no, but I see as much justification for the other comparison, so why the hell not!

[Guitar Shark]

On an unrelated topic, it is interesting to note that both Barack Obama and Jeffrey Dahmer are both adult males.

Wrong!

[ELVIS]

Hey, OJ and Obama have similarities...

Both names begin with 'O', similar skin color, OJ was born the EXACT month right before the month Obama was born, they both paid millions in legal fees to hide the truth, etc, etc...

But if you really want to compare someone to a murderer, Eric Holder would be a good fit...

[Guitar Shark]

Now that you mention it, ELVIS and Eric start with the same letter! Murderer!

[Dr. Love]

Now that you mention it, ELVIS and Eric start with the same letter! Murderer!

It's amazing what we are uncovering using the patented FORD Tenuous Correlation Method!

Using this very method we have been able to accurately* identify the cause of global warming:

http://www.dailycommonsense.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/fsm_pirates.png

*it's probably bull shit

[FORD]

Well, modern day pirates come from Somalia, and a lot of fucked up environmental damage (leading to global warming) has taken place on the continent of Africa.

So I suppose there's a very slight connection there.

[FORD]

I don't think Gary Johnson supports the things ELVIS listed out as objectionable to him about Romney/Ryan.

As I said, if Gary Johnson opposes reinstatement of the common sense regulations which prevented these things from happening, and in fact supports further deregulation, then he effectively supports the worst of predatory capitalism. Passive support is no better than the active support of Mittens & Munster. :(

[ELVIS]

That's wrong, FORD...

Just like you tried to say Ron Paul was for zero regulation...

That's bullshit and you should know it...

[FORD]

That's wrong, FORD...

Just like you tried to say Ron Paul was for zero regulation...

That's bullshit and you should know it...

Then don't take my word for it. Take Gary Johnson's..... (all quotes from his campaign website)


KEEP THE INTERNET THE CENSOR-FREE, AFFORDABLE TOOL it is today.

Government should cease subsidizing or giving favorable treatment to Internet service providers and content-creators. 'Net Neutrality' leads to a government role in the Internet that can only lead to unwanted regulation.
The FCC should not be allowed to create rules regulating content, Internet speeds, and pricing for services. The government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers in the content marketplace. The Internet should remain independent, accessible and market-based.
Internet 'kill switch' legislation should be scrapped completely. No person or group of people should be able to turn off the Internet.

Now, for the record, I agree with him on the "kill switch", but he is completely wrong on net neutrality. It is the LACK of net neutrality which will allow greedy cocksucker predatory capitalist companies like Comcast to censor content. They're already doing so, just ask anyone who uses bit torrent.

But moving on.........



MUCH FEDERAL INTERVENTION IS A PAYOUT TO special interests or counterproductive meddling that stifles competition, innovation, and growth.

We should:

Reject auto and banking bailouts, state bailouts, corporate welfare, cap-and-trade, card check, and the mountain of regulation that protects special interests rather than benefiting consumers or the economy.
Restrict Federal Reserve policy to maintaining price stability, not bailing out financial firms or propping up the housing sector.
Eliminate government support of Fannie and Freddie.
Reduce or eliminate federal involvement in education; let states expand successful reforms such as vouchers and charter schools.
Legalize, tax, and regulate marijuana, rather than wasting money on an expensive and futile prohibition.
Eliminate needless barriers to free trade and make it easier for would-be legal immigrants to apply for work visas.

Well, Gary's correct on marijuana, banking bailouts, and the "Federal" reserve, but dead wrong on the rest. If the banks were still properly regulated as they were under Glass Stegal, there would BE no bailouts, mortgage crisis or Wall Street gambling casino bullshit.

And MORE free trade and immigrant work visas???? Uh, fuck you Gary!


LOCAL CONTROL MEANS THAT WE ALL WIN.

All parents should have an opportunity to choose which school their children attend.
Putting educational funds in the hands of the people who use them gives parents and students a vote as to which schools are best and which need to improve.
Our children deserve the chance to succeed educationally, but the same old way of thinking won't cut it. It's time to free individuals and states from burdensome federal mandates and regulations so they can pursue the right educational strategies for their students.

Yeah right... let's destroy public education entirely, and put all kids in private schools, using those idiotic fucking textbooks being written in Texas right now where Jesus rode a dinosaur to school, and Thomas Jefferson is eliminated from history so you have more room for "Christian patriots" like Joe McCarthy and Ronald Wilson Reagan (666). Surely THAT will save America!!


Much more on Gary and his love of deregulation can be found here (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=regulation&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=garyjohnson2012.com&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=#hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=regulation+site:garyjohnson2012.com&oq=regulation+site:garyjohnson2012.com&gs_l=serp.3...0.0.0.1145352.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.l es%3B..0.0...1c.6gGJbot2F10&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=1a3e810cf4e23ff6&biw=1152&bih=739)

[ELVIS]

That's funny, I agree with everything you posted from his site, and I've read it before...

[Dr. Love]

FORD, you seem to think that if the government is given the power to regulate something, that the power won't be abused by elected officials serving their corporate sponsors.

How can you arrive at this conclusion in the face of everything that has happened with our representative government? Or do you believe we should pass legislation that aligns with how you believe the world "should be" more than it actually is?

[FORD]

You agree that more outsourcing of jobs (i.e. "free trade") and importing of cheap foreign labor with "work visas" to do the few jobs left here is the way to solve unemployment?

You believe that destroying public education and brainwashing children to be good little corporatist slaves who are incapable of critical thinking is a GOOD thing?

You believe that further deregulation of the criminal banking industry will save this country??

[FORD]

FORD, you seem to think that if the government is given the power to regulate something, that the power won't be abused by elected officials serving their corporate sponsors.

How can you arrive at this conclusion in the face of everything that has happened with our representative government? Or do you believe we should pass legislation that aligns with how you believe the world "should be" more than it actually is?

I believe that regulations put in place by Franklin D. Roosevelt (and others passed earlier by his Republican cousin Teddy) kept this country safe, stable, and economically prosperous for half a century, and the day those regulations began to be dismantled in 1981, is the day this country began a 30 year toilet spiral.

We need to undo that damage and go back to what we know damn well WORKED BEST FOR 99% OF THIS COUNTRY, and FUCK what the KKKoch Brothers, the BCE, that Mormonic son of a bitch Romney or his little Eddie Munster bitch think about it.

[ELVIS]

It's amazing all of the federal government corruption FORD has pointed out and cried about over the years, yet he seems to want to sign on to more...

[FORD]

It's amazing all of the federal government corruption FORD has pointed out and cried about over the years, yet he seems to want to sign on to more...

No.... What I really want is for every last member of the BCE, the KKKoch Brothers, the leadership of the NRA, and every last single person who works for Gold Mansacks to be tried on charges of treason (in front of a judge NOT appointed by the BCE) and then executed on live network television when found guilty. As they all would be.

Yeah, it's not likely to happen, but it should. :(

I remember when that Chinese baby formula that was laced with cadmium (or whatever it was) killed a bunch of kids, and the Chinese government put a bullet in the head of the pieces of shit responsible for that.

I'm not saying we should always follow their example, but in that case, I think they made the right call. If somebody had done that to the head of a big pharma company (for example) they might think twice about releasing any more drugs that they KNOW aren't worth a shit, and then playing dumb when the body count starts piling up from people gullible enough to believe their paid off doctors who prescribe the poison.

[ELVIS]

It's funny you never mention Obama when you drop corrupt names...

But how can you expect Big Pharma to be regulated by the Feds when they're in bed together and write the regulatory laws together...

There's a reason we have states as opposed to one huge state with a huge bureaucratic corrupt government, but that's exactly where we're headed...

[Dr. Love]

How does giving a corrupt government more power fix the problem?

I would put more faith in the states calling a constitutional convention and pushing the federal government out of the discussion. Then we could get to the business of fixing things.

[ELVIS]

Amen to that!!

[Nickdfresh]

FORD, you seem to think that if the government is given the power to regulate something, that the power won't be abused by elected officials serving their corporate sponsors.

...

Um, that is why gov't exists. And ideally it should be used to reign in "corporate sponsors." Taxpayers gov't is to protect should be the ultimate sponsor. A lot of corp's don't even PAY taxes!!

[ELVIS]

Is that what the mainstream media told you ??

[Nickdfresh]

No, I came up with that on my own in 11th grade civics/American studies class...

[Nickdfresh]

US Today/Gallup poll: Ryan gets low marks as VP choice. (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2012/08/paul-ryan-poll-vice-president-mitt-romney-/1?csp=34news#.UCppbaOiPms)

http://i.usatoday.net/_common/_notches/00ea9f4f-e835-4d43-9494-3ee9bd7be3c2-ryan-poll.jpg

[ELVIS]

The federal government is controlled by the federal reserve, the five or six big world banks, Big Pharma and other huge corporations, and the military industrial complex...

There is zero representation of the people at the federal level...ZEE-FUCKING-ROW !!

I bet they didn't tell you that in your 11th grade propaganda training class...

[ELVIS]

US Today/Gallup poll: Ryan gets low marks as VP choice. (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2012/08/paul-ryan-poll-vice-president-mitt-romney-/1?csp=34news#.UCppbaOiPms)

http://i.usatoday.net/_common/_notches/00ea9f4f-e835-4d43-9494-3ee9bd7be3c2-ryan-poll.jpg

More mainstream propaganda ??

[jhale667]

Even Caribou Barbie had higher positives than Eddie Munster does. That's saying something.

[Nickdfresh]

"Propaganda?" Why would it be propaganda? Is it still "propaganda" if it shows Romney in the lead?

[ELVIS]

It doesn't matter...

Those polls are cherry picked and I'm sure I can find one showing Romney and Ryan doing quite well...

The corporate media, no matter what network or political bias, lies quite effectively by complete omission (see Ron Paul) editing of audio and / or video, as well as deliberate distortion and misinterpretation of facts...

Hence propaganda...

Aljazeera is a better source for US news than the mainstream propaganda machine, and that's no exaggeration...

[Nickdfresh]

'Kay, Got'cha...

[Dr. Love]

Um, that is why gov't exists. And ideally it should be used to reign in "corporate sponsors." Taxpayers gov't is to protect should be the ultimate sponsor. A lot of corp's don't even PAY taxes!!

We don't live in the United States of Should.

I'm all for intelligent, reasonable regulation. I'm all for paying reasonable taxes, and everyone paying them.

I don't believe that either are possible with the government we have. That's why I think the states need to intervene.

[ELVIS]

Bobby Jindal is leaning in that direction...

[FORD]

Aljazeera is a better source for US news than the mainstream propaganda machine, and that's no exaggeration...


But not as good as RT.

[FORD]

Bobby Jindal is leaning in that direction...

Of course..... Piyush is fine with most citizens living in complete poverty, and an untouchable elite few running everything. It's the way things are done where he comes from.

[ELVIS]

RT is a front for Russian intelligence activities...

[FORD]

And AlJazeera is based in a Muslim terraist funding state.

[ELVIS]

Of course..... Piyush is fine with most citizens living in complete poverty, and an untouchable elite few running everything. It's the way things are done where he comes from.

That's where were headed now...

The house of cards economy is being artificially kept afloat and it's coming down at some point...

[Nickdfresh]

Oh thank God! The state gov't of Louisiana will save us. I mean, what gov't has been more honest, corruption free, efficient, and responsive to its subjects than the gov't of the great state of Louisiana?

[ELVIS]

And AlJazeera is based in a Muslim terraist funding state.

Says who, our propaganda media and government ??

But I'm much more afraid of Russia and China who both back Syria and Iran, than any terrorist bogeyman...

Every fucking bit of the Bin Laden story is bullshit, from his made up involvement in 911 which he denied to faking his death ten years after he died...

[FORD]

Says who, our propaganda media and government ??

Says the same people spreading lies about RT.

[ELVIS]

So, what do you think of the pro-Syria stories I read on RT where the Russian government says the US government is lying and that the US and Israel are behind the unrest there ??

[Dr. Love]

Oh thank God! The state gov't of Louisiana will save us. I mean, what gov't has been more honest, corruption free, efficient, and responsive to its subjects than the gov't of the great state of Louisiana?

you've found the fatal flaw in the whole idea! The whole thing is doomed to fail because of the Louisiana delegation! Certainly the other states will be swayed by their corrupt, charismatic rhetoric!

I guess we're just better off with what we have ... time to shut up and appreciate what they're willing to let us do (even if that list continues to shrink). ;)

[FORD]

So, what do you think of the pro-Syria stories I read on RT where the Russian government says the US government is lying and that the US and Israel are behind the unrest there ??

Just because Syria's leader is an Assad-hole doesn't mean there isn't some BCE-CIA/Mossad bullshit fueling the fire there.

It makes sense that NuttyYahoo would want an occupied Syria under control before he could get what he REALLY wants: War with Iran.

[ELVIS]

Just because Syria's leader is an Assad-hole doesn't mean there isn't some BCE-CIA/Mossad bullshit fueling the fire there.



I don't see how you can say that and still trust the Feds with honest transparent regulation...

[FORD]

We need to get past the goddamned Ronald Reagan/Grover Norquist the Unfriendly Monster distortion of what government is and what it should be, and get back to the way that Tom Jefferson defined it, and Abe Lincoln affirmed it.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people.

And no, that does not mean "people" the way that Mittens and Opie Roberts define them, but actual flesh and blood people made by God, and not signatures on a corporate tax cheat form.

[FORD]

Let's not lose sight of the topic here, which is what a complete fucking piece of Randtard serial killer groupie worshipping KKKoch funded shit that Eddie Munster Ryan is.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBhdXfCdaA8

[ELVIS]

I agree with that...

The federal government is way too large and corrupt to ever be representative of the people again...

We're just about to go over a huge cliff...

[ELVIS]

He's not a rantard groupie...

He poses as a Ron Paul type to hide his true neocon agenda...

[FORD]

He's not a rantard groupie...

He poses as a Ron Paul type to hide his true neocon agenda...

He loves the dead and burning in Hell fascist bitch more than you love Yingyang Egosteen!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fojrlX6rmmM

[FORD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6LSpFgxL94

[ELVIS]

I'm 100% familiar with all of that, but he's a Neocon These days...

[jhale667]

I'm 100% familiar with all of that, but he's a Neocon These days...

Bullshit. He's only recently renounced Ayn Rand because he has to.

[ELVIS]

He hasn't only recently announced anything...

[jhale667]

Yes he has. Maybe Alex Jones hasn't gotten around to mentioning it yet.

[FORD]

Yes he has. Maybe Alex Jones hasn't gotten around to mentioning it yet.

Well, it actually looks like Alex (or at least this employee of his) isn't exactly a fan of Eddie Munster either.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8NuxaFJGZ0

[knuckleboner]

you've found the fatal flaw in the whole idea! The whole thing is doomed to fail because of the Louisiana delegation! Certainly the other states will be swayed by their corrupt, charismatic rhetoric!

I guess we're just better off with what we have ... time to shut up and appreciate what they're willing to let us do (even if that list continues to shrink). ;)

so, articles of confederation then?...

[Dr. Love]

Not at all. But I think it's the best shot to get the constitution reformed and things reigned back in to where they need to be. There are things that the public agrees need to be done but our representatives won't or can't do. Corporations are not people. Money should not determine the outcome of elections. There need to be reasonable protections for the public good. And the government should fear the people, not the other way around.

[knuckleboner]

Not at all. But I think it's the best shot to get the constitution reformed and things reigned back in to where they need to be. There are things that the public agrees need to be done but our representatives won't or can't do. Corporations are not people. Money should not determine the outcome of elections. There need to be reasonable protections for the public good. And the government should fear the people, not the other way around.

i agree with you, mostly. though, personally, i think the biggest problem lies with voter apathy. i'm not a big fan of the primary process, in that i don't think it leads to optimal outcomes in the general election. that said, the system would work better if more people got involved, at least a little bit. (even if it's for dr. paul...;))

[FORD]

Posted: 08/14/2012 8:40 am
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/14/janna-ryan-paul-ryan-wife_n_1774265.html)

WASHINGTON -- Janna Ryan was introduced to America on Saturday as a stay-at-home mom who has raised three children while her husband, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), built a career in Washington.

But the wife of Mitt Romney's vice presidential pick spent a decade in Washington herself, first as a congressional aide and then as a corporate lobbyist, whose clients included the cigar industry, a logging company, drugmakers, the health insurance industry and a nuclear power plant.

The details of Janna Ryan's lobbying career come as Democrats and Republican party insiders question whether Paul Ryan's career in government, and his scant private sector experience, are at odds with Mitt Romney's pro-business, anti-Washington message.

Ryan, born Janna Christine Little, quit her lobbying job shortly after marrying her husband in late 2000, but by all accounts she was an effective lobbyist before that. Over just three years, Ryan's 20 corporate clients paid more than $2.7 million in lobbying fees to her two employers, Pricewaterhouse Coopers and Williams & Jensen, according to records compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics.

Her clientroster reads like a who's who of some of America's most politically polarizing corporate interests. Drug industry clients included the Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers Alliance (PhRMA), Wyeth Pharmaceuticals and Novartis. Oil industry clients included Conoco and Marathon Oil. Big health insurance companies Blue Cross Blue Shield and Cigna were also on the list.

From 1998 to 2000, Ryan was part of a small team that lobbied the House, Senate and White House on behalf of the Cigar Association of America to exclude cigars from many of the same regulations placed on cigarettes, like warning labels and excise taxes. PwC received $760,000 from the cigar lobby during Ryan's tenure.

The cigar lobbying effort was launched to fend off congressional scrutiny of the industry, following revelations in the late 1990s that cigar manufacturers had orchestrated a decades-long campaign to make cigars look cool, and to minimize their health hazards. This included paying celebrities to smoke cigars at events and launching Cigar Aficionado magazine, which portrayed cigars as an elite hobby. Cigars contain as much nicotine as several cigarettes.

During the same period, Ryan and her colleague Pat Raffianello also represented cigar industry interests through the National Association of Convenience Store Operators, a trade group seeking to limit the impact of potential cigar regulations on booming convenience-store cigar sales. Together, they brought in at least $240,000 from the group over three years of lobbying the House and Senate.

Ryan and Rafianello had worked together before -- he was the former chief of staff to Rep. Bill Brewster (D-Okla.), for whom Ryan also worked in the early 1990s. A pro-business, fiscally conservative "Democrat" from Janna Ryan's home state, Brewster was the subject of a damning profile in The American Prospect, which in 2001 labeled him "a vivid illustration of what the system still permits: fundraising practices that skew politics in favor of wealthy interests."

Today, Brewster is a lobbyist and founder of the Capitol Hill Consulting Group, a lobbying firm. Brewster did not return a request for comment. Like Paul Ryan, Brewster served on the powerful House Ways and Means Committee, charged with determining how taxpayer funds are spent -- and vigorously lobbied by corporate tax lobbyists.

Ryan and Rafianello also represented the Vermont Yankee Corp., a nuclear power plant, on "nuclear waste issues," according to federal lobbying registration forms. The company paid $180,000 over three years between 1998 and 2000, while Vermont Yankee was being sold; its owners hoped more favorable tax laws would make it more attractive to buyers.

In 1998, the same year that her future husband was elected to Congress, Ryan was also part of a team that received $220,000 in fees for lobbying on behalf of United Parcel Service, part of the company's ultimately successful effort to defeat a postal reform bill, which would have made the U.S. Postal Service more profitable.

The effects of that effort can still be felt today. Earlier in August, after a decade of continued revenue decline, the Postal Service defaulted on payments due to the U.S. Treasury.

Ryan and her then-boyfriend's work appear to have overlapped. In February 2000 while Janna Ryan still was working on behalf of UPS, Paul Ryan made one of only two corporate-funded trips he took that year, from Milwaukee to Atlanta, where UPS is headquartered. The trip was paid for by UPS, which also flew the congressman back to Washington, according to his financial disclosure reports.

The Romney campaign declined to comment on the UPS trip, nor did the campaign comment on her lobbying clients.

sounds like a marriage made in Hell, doesn't it?

[ELVIS]

Yes he has. Maybe Alex Jones hasn't gotten around to mentioning it yet.

Dude, I didn't just learn who Ryan was this week as you obviously have...

[jhale667]

Keep telling yourself that, tinfoil hat wearer.

[ELVIS]

I was also aware Ryan's wife was a big pharma lobbyist...

[ELVIS]

Keep telling yourself that, tinfoil hat wearer.

Mainstream bullshit believer...

[jhale667]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/11-300x269.jpg

[Nickdfresh]

you've found the fatal flaw in the whole idea! The whole thing is doomed to fail because of the Louisiana delegation! Certainly the other states will be swayed by their corrupt, charismatic rhetoric!

I guess we're just better off with what we have ... time to shut up and appreciate what they're willing to let us do (even if that list continues to shrink). ;)

State gov'ts reforming the Fed gov't is sort of like La Cosa Nostra reforming the Mexican Cartels....

[Seshmeister]

The corporate media, no matter what network or political bias, lies quite effectively by complete omission (see Ron Paul) editing of audio and / or video, as well as deliberate distortion and misinterpretation of facts...


That is a perfect description of Infowars et al.

[ELVIS]

No, Alex jones has exposed the propaganda mainstream on countless occasions...

[Nickdfresh]

Name one occasion...

[Nickdfresh]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/ryan-begins-attacking-romneys-record-as-massachuse,29179/

LOL :)

[ELVIS]

Name one occasion...

I posted quite a few as they happened...

Doc also posted some examples when they were current...

[Nickdfresh]

I posted quite a few as they happened...

Links?


Doc also posted some examples when they were current...

I've never seen him post anything regarding Jones...

[ELVIS]

I didn't say it was from jones and I'm not gonna hold your hand and lead you to shit that has already posted with links...

You obviously blew it off the first time, so why should I post it again ??

Do you need your diaper changed as well ??

[Dr. Love]

State gov'ts reforming the Fed gov't is sort of like La Cosa Nostra reforming the Mexican Cartels....

Let's hear a better alternative, then. I'm all ears!

[Nickdfresh]

Let's hear a better alternative, then. I'm all ears!

Vastly shortening the election cycle and limiting the amount of advertizing a candidate can do, thusly limiting the money-whore aspect of campaign fundraising...

[ELVIS]

You'd still have the exact same candidates and media manipulation...

[FORD]

Repealing Shittyzens United is the obvious first step for any REAL political reform.

And it's time to start taking economic terrorism - which is actually destroying this country - more seriously than cartoonish exaggerated cave dwelling "terraists" who allegedly have super powers to defy the laws of physics like some goddamned Legion of Doom.

[ELVIS]

Amen to that!

[Nickdfresh]

Paul Ryan doesn't know much about his own budget proposal:

Video of Brit Hume Interview of Ryanl (http://mediacast.realgravity.com/sharing/abd3f6b0-4082-012f-2a8c-12313d00d151/9f466fc0-c88d-012f-c1a1-12313b01b22c.html)


Washington (CNN) (http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/15/politics/ryan-budget/index.html) -- When Paul Ryan struggled to explain a budget-balancing timeline under Mitt Romney, he highlighted the difficulty of trying to run a substantive campaign without being too specific.

While Ryan's interview Tuesday with Fox News' Brit Hume was no Sarah Palin-Katie Couric moment, the Republican vice presidential candidate's discomfort in answering when Romney's proposal would balance the budget was evident.

Ryan, a seven-term congressman from Wisconsin and chairman of the House Budget Committee, said he was unsure when Romney's proposals would balance the federal budget. Romney's plans say he would "put the federal government on a course toward a balanced budget" but does not say when.

Hume repeatedly pressed Ryan on the question of "when" Romney's budget would balance.

Hume: "The budget plan you're now supporting would get to balance when?"

Ryan: "Well, there are different -- the budget plan that Mitt Romney is supporting gets us down to 20% of GDP (gross domestic product) government spending by 2016. That means get the size of government back to where it historically has been. What President Obama has done is he brought the size of government to as high as it hasn't been since World War II. We want to reduce the size of government to have more economic freedom."

Hume: "I get that. What about balance?"

Ryan: "I don't know exactly what the balance is. I don't want to get wonky on you, but we haven't run the numbers on that specific plan. The plan we offer in the House balances the budget. I'd put a contrast. President Obama, never once, ever, has offered a plan to ever balance the budget. The United States Senate, they haven't even balanced, they haven't passed a budget in three years."
...

[jhale667]

In other words "We don't know, but we're not the black guy..."

[FORD]

"The United States Senate, they haven't even balanced, they haven't passed a budget in three years."

Uh, that's because YOUR "budget" sucks, Eddie Munster.

[Dr. Love]

Vastly shortening the election cycle and limiting the amount of advertizing a candidate can do, thusly limiting the money-whore aspect of campaign fundraising...

You can't do that or what FORD suggests in our current political system. I propose a constitutional convention by the states to try to accomplish these things. You said it wasn't likely to work. What method of reform would actually make the changes you propose possible? Obviously elections aren't working.

[LoungeMachine]

I honestly don't think anything short of a total collapse is going to change anything in this country anymore.

Just too much money involved. Parties and Lobbyists just too entrenched.

:gulp:

Seriously, unless the Move to Amend can gain traction and start some real change, I'm getting pretty pessimistic.

[Dr. Love]

well, if things continue on their current trajectory, I can see that happening easily in our lifetimes.

[ELVIS]

I'd say in the next decade easily...

Some economists say this year...

[knuckleboner]

Paul Ryan doesn't know much about his own budget proposal:

Video of Brit Hume Interview of Ryanl (http://mediacast.realgravity.com/sharing/abd3f6b0-4082-012f-2a8c-12313d00d151/9f466fc0-c88d-012f-c1a1-12313b01b22c.html)
Ryan: "I don't know exactly what the balance is. I don't want to get wonky on you, but we haven't run the numbers on that specific plan. The plan we offer in the House balances the budget. I'd put a contrast. President Obama, never once, ever, has offered a plan to ever balance the budget. The United States Senate, they haven't even balanced, they haven't passed a budget in three years."




ryan's budget balances...in 2040. (not a typo.) and it balances by raising revenue through the addition of dynamic scoring - meaning that tax cuts get to count as revenue increases. and while some tax cuts have, the bush cuts most certainly have not.

[ELVIS]

At least he's tried to propose some sort of budget...

Where's Oblamas ??

[knuckleboner]

At least he's tried to propose some sort of budget...

Where's Oblamas ??

yeah, ryan proposed a budget with a bunch of smoke and mirror tricks.

obama has had budgets that yes, have more spending and more debt than ryan's. but it also has more investment in things like science and transportation. is it a better budget? depends on your vision. but he's got one.

[ELVIS]

No he doesn't, he's done nothing but stall on presenting a budget...

But who needs a budget when you can print money and give it to banks, buddies and bullshit green companies...

[LoungeMachine]

No he doesn't, he's done nothing but stall on presenting a budget...



:lmao:

You really have no clue, do you?

:gulp:

[ELVIS]

Yes I do...

Here's Obama's budget:

Taxes!

Raise taxes on everyone and everything and usher in a huge health tax and force everyone onto a bullshit Medicare like plan...

[LoungeMachine]

Yes I do...

Here's Obama's budget:

Taxes!

Raise taxes on everyone and everything and usher in a huge health tax and force everyone onto a bullshit Medicare like plan...

Don't be so stupid.....

:gulp:

At least stick to the facts, not the rhetoric.

[jhale667]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/217824_469649069720079_194330641_n.jpg

[jhale667]

Apparently Ryan's a big Rage Against the Machine fan...which does not sit well with Tom Morello...

Tom Morello: 'Paul Ryan Is the Embodiment of the Machine Our Music Rages Against'


http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/tom-morello-paul-ryan-is-the-embodiment-of-the-machine-our-music-rages-against-20120816/1000x600/main.jpg

Rage Against the Machine's guitarist blasts Romney's VP pick and unlikely Rage fan

By Tom Morello
August 16, 2012 6:44 PM ET
Last week, Mitt Romney picked Paul Ryan, the Republican architect of Congress's radical right-wing budget plan, as his running mate. Ryan has previously cited Rage Against the Machine as one of his favorite bands. Rage guitarist Tom Morello responds in this exclusive op-ed.

Paul Ryan's love of Rage Against the Machine is amusing, because he is the embodiment of the machine that our music has been raging against for two decades. Charles Manson loved the Beatles but didn't understand them. Governor Chris Christie loves Bruce Springsteen but doesn't understand him. And Paul Ryan is clueless about his favorite band, Rage Against the Machine.

Ryan claims that he likes Rage's sound, but not the lyrics. Well, I don't care for Paul Ryan's sound or his lyrics. He can like whatever bands he wants, but his guiding vision of shifting revenue more radically to the one percent is antithetical to the message of Rage.

I wonder what Ryan's favorite Rage song is? Is it the one where we condemn the genocide of Native Americans? The one lambasting American imperialism? Our cover of "Fuck the Police"? Or is it the one where we call on the people to seize the means of production? So many excellent choices to jam out to at Young Republican meetings!

Don't mistake me, I clearly see that Ryan has a whole lotta "rage" in him: A rage against women, a rage against immigrants, a rage against workers, a rage against gays, a rage against the poor, a rage against the environment. Basically the only thing he's not raging against is the privileged elite he's groveling in front of for campaign contributions.

You see, the super rich must rationalize having more than they could ever spend while millions of children in the U.S. go to bed hungry every night. So, when they look themselves in the mirror, they convince themselves that "Those people are undeserving. They're . . . lesser." Some of these guys on the extreme right are more cynical than Paul Ryan, but he seems to really believe in this stuff. This unbridled rage against those who have the least is a cornerstone of the Romney-Ryan ticket.

But Rage's music affects people in different ways. Some tune out what the band stands for and concentrate on the moshing and throwing elbows in the pit. For others, Rage has changed their minds and their lives. Many activists around the world, including organizers of the global occupy movement, were radicalized by Rage Against the Machine and work tirelessly for a more humane and just planet. Perhaps Paul Ryan was moshing when he should have been listening.

My hope is that maybe Paul Ryan is a mole. Maybe Rage did plant some sensible ideas in this extreme fringe right wing nut job. Maybe if elected, he'll pardon Leonard Peltier. Maybe he'll throw U.S. military support behind the Zapatistas. Maybe he'll fill Guantanamo Bay with the corporate criminals that are funding his campaign – and then torture them with Rage music 24/7. That's one possibility. But I'm not betting on it.


http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/tom-morello-paul-ryan-is-the-embodiment-of-the-machine-our-music-rages-against-20120816#ixzz23l7V4m00


:guitar:

[Satan]

Yes I do...

Here's Obama's budget:

Taxes!

Raise taxes on everyone and everything and usher in a huge health tax and force everyone onto a bullshit Medicare like plan...

If it was a Medicare like plan, that would be Most Unholy indeed. Unfortunately, it's the exact opposite. And if Eddie Munster gets his way, there will be no Medicare FOR ANYBODY. Which is exactly the opposite of the way you mortals should be going.

Believe me, with 99.9% of all insurance agents eventually becoming residents of my domain, it would be tempting for me to replace HellCare with a for profit system.

But it actually torments the insurance goons here more to see a single payer system that works. And it lowers the pain between the horns for me and my demon accountants, as well.

[ELVIS]

Is the Satan act how you hide from the BCE on the net ??

[Satan]

The BCE has no jurisdiction in Hell. Yeah, they all come here when they die, but they ain't running shit down here!

[LoungeMachine]

The BCE has no jurisdiction in Hell. Yeah, they all come here when they die, but they ain't running shit down here!

See, I dont get that......

This is where the wheels fall off the wagon of the whole "Heaven V Hell" story......

If the truly "evil" are doing your bidding "up" on earth, then why aren't they welcomed with punch and cookies, and strippers and coke when they get to "hell"??????

:gulp:

If you PUNISH evil, then you're just another "God" like the old man in the clouds that hides behind pearly gates and hire harp players to bore the shit out of the "faithful"

[Satan]

You forget that I didn't design this infernal playground, God did.

I'm just the Warden here, not the judge & jury.

And we do have strippers, but it IS Hell, so they all look like Bea Arthur.

[LoungeMachine]

I didn't forget....I just never learned.

Strippers who look like Bea Arthur?

:gulp:

I don't envy_you

[jhale667]

And we do have strippers, but it IS Hell, so they all look like Bea Arthur.

So much for "Hell ain't a bad place to be"...:umm:
So....all the hot chicks with questionable morals that aren't full-on evil go where...purgatory? Where do I sign up? :biggrin:

[Satan]

So much for "Hell ain't a bad place to be"...:umm:
So....all the hot chicks with questionable morals that aren't full-on evil go where...purgatory? Where do I sign up? :biggrin:

They only work in my private club. http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d065.gif

[jhale667]

They only work in my private club. http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d065.gif

That totally makes you the "Prince of Jerkness", Scratch. NOT cool. ;)

(Y'know, unless I can get a membership without having to kill kittens or something...)

[LoungeMachine]

Oh please......a few kittens die but we get to spend eternity doing lines off hot strippers?

:gulp:

Buh-bye, Fluffy

[Satan]

You guys know you're welcome at the club. I just have to restrict access so I can keep Nixon out. That son of a bitch gets drunk and starts running around with a video camera.... him and his goddamned recording fetish.

Best producer in Hell though.... as long as he's sober!

[LoungeMachine]

You'll probably being seeing Phil Spector soon enough....

:gulp:

Let him keep his wig

[jhale667]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/540334_463740780327011_2047614272_n.jpg

[Satan]

You'll probably being seeing Phil Spector soon enough....

:gulp:

Let him keep his wig

Please.... that wig is going to burst into flames the minute he steps out of the Hellevator! http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

[jhale667]

Oh please......a few kittens die but we get to spend eternity doing lines off hot strippers?

:gulp:

Buh-bye, Fluffy


OK, but....

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzuxwyQKDF1qi36o9o1_500.gif

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzuxwyQKDF1qi36o9o2_500.gif

[jhale667]

Back on topic...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/395953_428349077216429_373267784_n.jpg

[LoungeMachine]

Ryan says he sought economic stimulus money after twice denying it


By Associated Press, Published: August 16 | Updated: Friday, August 17, 1:06 AM

WASHINGTON — Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan on Thursday reversed course and acknowledged lobbying the government for millions of dollars in economic stimulus money after twice denying he had done so.

The Wisconsin congressman said he had forgotten that his office sent letters — with his signature — to the Energy and Labor departments asking for money from the stimulus program on behalf of two companies in his home state.


“They should have been handled differently, and I take responsibility for that,” Ryan said in a written statement released only after he again denied requesting stimulus funds Thursday in an Ohio television interview.

Ryan’s denial in an interview with Cincinnati’s WCPO-TV contradicted letters he wrote in 2009 to Energy Secretary Steven Chu and Labor Secretary Hilda Solis seeking stimulus grant money for two Wisconsin energy conservation companies. One of them, the nonprofit Wisconsin Energy Conservation Corp., later received $20.3 million from the Energy Department to help homes and businesses improve energy efficiency, according to federal records.

“After having these letters called to my attention I checked into them, and they were treated as constituent service requests in the same way matters involving Social Security or Veterans Affairs are handled,” Ryan said in a statement late Thursday. “This is why I didn’t recall the letters earlier.”

The congressman’s denial came as new audio surfaced of Ryan telling Boston’s WBZ Radio two years ago that he “did not ask for stimulus money” in response to a caller’s question about the recovery program. “I’m not one who votes for something and then writes to the government to ask them to send us money,” Ryan said. The exchange was first reported Thursday by The Boston Globe.

But a year earlier in his request to Chu for funds for the Wisconsin Energy Conservation Corp. Ryan said the stimulus cash would help his state create thousands of new jobs, save energy and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

The apparent contradiction underscores Ryan’s conflicts with his larger federal budget proposal as the House Budget Committee chairman. That plan would slash Energy Department programs aimed at creating green jobs and calls for “getting Washington out of the business of picking winners and losers in the economy — and that includes our energy sector.”

Ryan’s actions in Congress have been drawing fresh scrutiny since he was named last weekend as Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s running mate.

The vice presidential contender is not alone among Republicans who criticized the stimulus plan only to seek money later. Georgia’s Republican senators, Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isakson, for example, blasted the bill as a bloated government giveaway yet asked then-Defense Secretary Robert Gates to steer $50 million in stimulus money to a constituent’s bio-energy project.

Ryan’s views are also consistent with Romney’s long-held position that the stimulus was a flawed idea that did not create private sector jobs.

“That stimulus didn’t work,” Romney said at an Ohio speech in June. “That stimulus didn’t put more private-sector people to work.”

Yet in Ryan’s letter to the Labor Department in October 2009, he backed the Energy Center of Wisconsin’s grant application for stimulus money “to develop an industry-driven training and placement agenda that intends to place 1,000 workers in green jobs.” The company did not win the Labor Department grant, federal records show.

Despite the letter, Ryan echoed Romney’s position on Thursday.

“Regardless, it’s clear that the Obama stimulus did nothing to stimulate the economy, and now the president is asking to do it all over again,” he said.

:gulp:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ryan-now-says-he-sought-economic-stimulus-money-after-twice-denying-it/2012/08/17/944644f8-e826-11e1-9739-eef99c5fb285_story.html

[jhale667]

Saw that on the news earlier, and wow was Ryan waffling. Only a week on the ticket and he's already being proven to be completely full of shit (not that anyone who's been paying attention didn't already know). And the radio quote was actually more up Ann Ryan's alley: "I'm not one of THOSE PEOPLE that asks...".

[ELVIS]

What are you babbling about ??

[BigBadBrian]

The BCE has no jurisdiction in Hell. Yeah, they all come here when they die, but they ain't running shit down here!

Right. The Kennedy's (Joe, John, Robert, and Ted) rule down in HELL. Everyone knows that.

:gulp:

[jhale667]

What are you babbling about ??

Something you haven't seen on Alex Jones yet, obviously...

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/presented-with-letters-ryan-admits-requesting-stimulus-cash/

Presented With Letters, Ryan Admits Requesting Stimulus Cash

After repeated denials, Paul Ryan has admitted he requested stimulus cash even after sharply criticizing the program.

Ryan had denied doing so as recently as Wednesday, when he spoke to ABC’s Cincinnati affiliate, WCPO, in Ohio.

“I never asked for stimulus,” Mitt Romney’s new running mate said. “I don’t recall… so I really can’t comment on it. I opposed the stimulus because it doesn’t work, it didn’t work.”

Two years ago, during an interview on WBZ’s NewsRadio he was asked by a caller if he “accepted any money” into his district. Ryan said he did not.

“I’m not one [of those] people who votes for something then writes to the government to ask them to send us money. I did not request any stimulus money,” the congressman answered.

But as we’ve now learned, Ryan did write letters. He did request stimulus funds.

“The Olympics may be over but Paul Ryan could have gotten a gold medal in hypocrisy,” a senior administration official told ABC’s Jake Tapper. “As someone who spends all day every day railing against government spending, but then secretly seeks millions in funds for pet projects, he is as Washington as it gets.”

In 2009, Ryan wrote to Energy Secretary Steven Chu and Labor Secretary Hilda Solis asking for stimulus money to cover costs on two energy conservation projects in his home state of Wisconsin. In the letter, Ryan said the funds would help create jobs and reduce “energy consumption” in the state. At least one of the companies received the requested cash.

The letters were first obtained by The Wall Street Journal through the Freedom of Information Act back in early 2010. The Boston Globe turned them up for the first time during this campaign season Wednesday. At that point, a Ryan aide referred ABC News back to what a Ryan spokesman said when the letters first went public.

“If Congressman Ryan is asked to help a Wisconsin entity applying for existing Federal grant funds, he does not believe flawed policy should get in the way of doing his job and providing a legitimate constituent service to his employers,” the spokesman told the Milwaukee (Wisc.) Journal Sentinel.

Thursday, Ryan responded to the questions himself.

“After having these letters called to my attention I checked into them, and they were treated as constituent service requests in the same way matters involving Social Security or Veterans Affairs are handled,” he said in a statement. “This is why I didn’t recall the letters earlier. But they should have been handled differently, and I take responsibility for that.

“Regardless, it’s clear that the Obama stimulus did nothing to stimulate the economy, and now the President is asking to do it all over again.”



Many economists (and most auto workers, I'd imagine) would disagree with the statement that the stimulus "did nothing".

[FORD]

Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 09:01 PM PDT
by Billionaires for Wealthcare (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/16/1120714/-Republican-Senator-Calls-Romeny-a-Stupid-Back-Stabber)


Responding to Romney's plan to kill energy production and thousands of jobs in Iowa, long time conservative Senator Chuck Grassley called Romney "stupid" and a "back stabber" at two town hall meetings.

In his unabated campaign to piss off every possible voter, Mitt Romney called for the cancellation of tax credits for wind energy, a move that would kill 37,000 good paying jobs nationwide.

In Iowa alone, 7,000 people are employed in the wind energy sector, producing a quarter of the state's electric power.

Why would Romney do something so heartless? To pay for tax cuts for the rich, naturally.

At a town hall meeting in rural Iowa, Chuck Grassley, Iowa's conservative Senator for 32 years, said,

"I'm the author of the wind energy tax credit of 1992, and there were people from outside the state came into Iowa and issued a press release that the Republican candidate for president was opposed to wind energy, and I felt it was just like a knife in my back".

Calling Romney's proposal an insult, Grassley continued his attack on the Republican standard-bearer at a different town hall meeting:

"when you think at a time of 8.2 percent unemployment there would be any question that you wouldn't want to lay off 4,000 more people in the state of Iowa and probably 25,000 people nationwide, but that's kind of what's at stake here."

Grassley concluded by saying,

"I don't know who's behind it and I'm going to find out who's behind it, and expose them and tell them how stupid their policy is."

Local rank and file Republicans agreed:

"In our rural community, we're looking at which candidate is going to take care of the real Iowa," said Rob Hach, a Republican wind energy consultant from Storm Lake who met with Obama last year and says he plans to vote for the president because of his support of the tax issue.

[BigBadBrian]

"They should have been handled differently, and I take responsibility for that," Ryan said

Democrats don't know anything about that. RESPONSIBILITY is a foreign concept.

[BigBadBrian]

After repeated denials, Paul Ryan has admitted he requested stimulus cash even after sharply criticizing the program.



There is nothing wrong here. Being against Obama's miserable failure of a program, there's nothing wrong with wanting a piece of the pie his constituents helped make once the stimulus was passed.

[FORD]

There is nothing wrong here. Being against Obama's miserable failure of a program, there's nothing wrong with wanting a piece of the pie his constituents helped make once the stimulus was passed.

It's called HYPOCRISY. Following in the footsteps of his serial killer groupie messiah Ayn Rand, of course.

[Nickdfresh]

There is nothing wrong here. Being against Obama's miserable failure of a program, there's nothing wrong with wanting a piece of the pie his constituents helped make once the stimulus was passed.

Failure? Most actual economists will differ with you...

[knuckleboner]

Democrats don't know anything about that. RESPONSIBILITY is a foreign concept.

that's a load of BS. (ryan, not you.) ryan's office knew that was stimulus money. and there is NO WAY they would have signed on to a request for stimulus funding without him at least knowing about it. unless they're a bunch of gigantic morons.