Fix the filibuster NOW!

[Satan]

[BigBadBrian]

The filibuster is fine the way it is.

[kwame k]

Yup, so much has been accomplished in the last four years because of it:headlights:

[ELVIS]

The election might as well have been a year ago...

We're still at status quo combined with out of control spending and federal regulation...

[Matt White]

They need to get moving on things...the people spoke...end this bullshit....

Put people back to work & stop the endless flood of jobs going overseas to use slave labor

[kwame k]

Instead of parroting the same old cliches........ask yourself some real questions about our deficit!

How much of it is because Obama refused to hide the war costs and put it back in the budget, unlike the previous guy.......how many trillion is that.

How much of the deficit is paying the interest on the previous guy's deficit.....haw many trillion is that?

Now I'm not saying Obama has done a great job.......his lack of leadership was the reason I voted for Rocky but between the mess he inherited and is still trying to clean up and an obstructionist Congress who's sole purpose was making him a one termer. I'm surprised he did as good of job as he did. Marginal at best but better than the last guy!

[ELVIS]

We need a grimmace button...

[kwame k]

We need a grimmace button...

OK......

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/realtodd/grimace.jpg

[BigBadBrian]

Yup, so much has been accomplished in the last four years because of it:headlights:

Sorry, but Congress is not Obama's rubber stamp. All 3 entities, the POTUS, Senate, and House, are going to have to learn to work together and COMPROMISE.

[kwame k]

Agreed!

[FORD]

It's the Repukes who are going to have to learn to compromise.

Our side has been compromising for the last 32 fucking years, and look where that got us.

The only thing that will save this country is to reverse those fucked up policies.

[ELVIS]

Blah blah blah...

[kwame k]

That's the most sense you've made in a while........keep up the good work, E :yo:

[Nitro Express]

It's the Repukes who are going to have to learn to compromise.

Our side has been compromising for the last 32 fucking years, and look where that got us.

The only thing that will save this country is to reverse those fucked up policies.

Nobody is going to fix a thing. Too much corruption on both sides to really do anything about the problems.

[Nitro Express]

Sorry, but Congress is not Obama's rubber stamp. All 3 entities, the POTUS, Senate, and House, are going to have to learn to work together and COMPROMISE.
Dream on. I've been hearing this for the last 40 years. The problem is they have fucked the economy and the US Dollar to where they no longer have the luxery to kick the can much further. Obama buying everyone off and doing nothing to start a real economy isn't going to fix a thing. You can get re-elected buying people off but you don't fix problems, you actually make problems worse.

[FORD]

If you look at this election overall, it was a great victory for "liberals"/"progressives"/those of us who live in reality and not in the Book of Mormon or Atlas Shrugged..

Legalizing weed....marriage equality....electing a lesbian senator in Wisconsin...getting rid of Joe Lieberdouche and Ben Nelson in the Senate and replacing them with Elizabeth Warren and Angus King - another independent of the Bernie Sanders variety. Alan Grayson is back in the House and teabagger war criminal Allen West is not. And the pro-rape wackjobs Akin, Mourdock, and Deadbeat Dad Walsh - GONE.

No we didn't get Rocky or Jill for President. And the House was so fucking gerrymandered that it was still out of reach. But at least some of the very worst are gone.

We, the people WON this election. And as the Repukes were so fucking fond of saying after elections they didn't even actually win (2000/2004) ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

It is time to reverse this 32 year toilet spiral of Jude Wanniski "Two Santa Clauses" trickle down supply side horseshit. The so called "job creators" actually created more jobs when they had to either invest money in their businesses or PAY TAXES on it. And that should be their only options again. Not outsourcing, cutting corners, going cheap.

[Nitro Express]

Nothing is going to change because nobody is going to do a thing about the real economic problems. It will just be more taxes, more fees, less personal freedom and a dollar that buys less. Neither the Republicans or Democrats understand sound economic policy. What about all the constitutional freedoms we lost? The door is open for the government to start arresting, detaining, and killing anyone they don't like. The Patriot Act. The National Defense Authorization Act.

I don't see another four years of Obama doing a thing about these problems and they are serious problems.

It's historically rare that a country this big can get itself in this big of a quagmire and pull out of it. The only way to turn it is massive spending cuts. Everyone is going to have to take the pain and anyone who sells that can't get elected. So the politicians will continue to buy votes and the Federal Reserve will continue to debase the currency to avoid having to pay the debt the politicians run up.

Until massive spending cuts happen and we get on a sane currency program, the US will continue to die a slow death.

[Nitro Express]

You can't have the national debt be bigger than the gross national product of the country and have a working economy. The big problem is the monetary system has gotten too far from reality and that monetary system took over the US Federal Government a long time ago.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I don't see another four years of Obama doing a thing about these problems and they are serious problems.

He CAN'T do it by himself, our government is set up so that he CAN'T do it by himself....

So when you say statements like that, you MUST say that neither Obama NOR Congress will do a thing about it.....

Which I still disagree with, because it's not the Democrats who are filibustering everything Obama does.....

[ELVIS]

But Va, nobody on either side but Ron Paul in Congress has put forth one bit of real effort or proposal to do anything whatsoever about the real fiscal problem that is here now...

It's here NOW!

You and others (not saying you do) may say it's not here now, but it is...

People don't feel it...yet...

[FORD]

It actually is too bad that neither Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich will be in the House next year. But that's a seperate issue from the filibuster horseshit.

BTW Senator Bernie Sanders has been pretty much on the same page with Paul and Kucinich when it comes to the "Federal" Reserve. I'm not sure where the new independent Senator Angus King is on that.

Elizabeth Warren is no friend of the banksters though, that much is certain.

[ELVIS]

BTW Senator Bernie Sanders has been pretty much on the same page with Paul and Kucinich when it comes to the "Federal" Reserve.

yeah, there are people like Sanders who are on board but it's mostly rhetoric...

Most if not all of these people are too afraid to put their cushy political careers on the line for a cause...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

But Va, nobody on either side but Ron Paul in Congress has put forth one bit of real effort or proposal to do anything whatsoever about the real fiscal problem that is here now...

It's here NOW!

You and others (not saying you do) may say it's not here now, but it is...

People don't feel it...yet...


What do you call the American Jobs Act ??

[ELVIS]

A good idea...

I'm not an Obama hater...

[LoungeMachine]

Sorry, but Congress is not Obama's rubber stamp. All 3 entities, the POTUS, Senate, and House, are going to have to learn to work together and COMPROMISE.

How is The Filibuster Rule fostering COMPROMISE?

:gulp:

Why should anyone have to compromise, if they know they can simply stop things dead in their tracks without lifting a finger?

[knuckleboner]

Sorry, but Congress is not Obama's rubber stamp. All 3 entities, the POTUS, Senate, and House, are going to have to learn to work together and COMPROMISE.

so you're ok with some level of increased revenue?

[Nitro Express]

We have a very divided country and the currency is going to pot. That's the big picture. People wasted all their energy on following an election that didn't change a thing. A bunch of partisan bickering and maneuvering over nothing. There will just be more arguing and finger pointing as energy and food become more expensive. The big wakeup will be when the food stamps are no good. That won't be pretty.

[Dr. Love]

I don't think any 1 group of people should have to pay shoulder more of the burden. As much as I'd like to reduce spending to the point we don't need a federal income tax, it aint' going to happen.

They need to reduce spending and increase taxes -- on everyone -- until the debt is repaid. We're all in this together.

[BigBadBrian]

They need to reduce spending and increase taxes -- on everyone -- until the debt is repaid. We're all in this together.

Agreed. Even a family of 4 making 20K can chip in $100 a year in taxes.

If you get a full refund from the IRS, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!!

[BigBadBrian]

so you're ok with some level of increased revenue?

Depends on how you raise that revenue. Broadening the tax base would be the most effective way.

[ELVIS]

Agreed. Even a family of 4 making 20K can chip in $100 a year in taxes.

If you get a full refund from the IRS, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!!

That is fucking idiotic...

[DavidLeeNatra]

It's the Repukes who are going to have to learn to compromise.

Our side has been compromising for the last 32 fucking years, and look where that got us.

The only thing that will save this country is to reverse those fucked up policies.

to compromise with those tea party radicals is as simple as to compromise with the taliban...

[Nickdfresh]

I don't think any 1 group of people should have to pay shoulder more of the burden...

I think they should...they receive far more benefits this country has to offer as far and security and infrastructure and often statistically do less for the consumerist economy overall. Also, the continued trends are a slipping middle class with stagnant wages while CEO's pocket books have swelled in the last 30 years. Corporate profits have never been better, yet they're have far less investment in their workers than ever with the obsolescence of pensions in favor of 401K's for example. So yes, those who benefit the most and give back the least should have to pay more taxes...

[Nickdfresh]

Agreed. Even a family of 4 making 20K can chip in $100 a year in taxes.

If you get a full refund from the IRS, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!!

How is that? That disposable income goes directly back into the economy far more so than all the money Mitt Romney is saving on his 14% tax bracket on interest. Has Mitt created any jobs with all the money he's saving?..

[Nickdfresh]

Depends on how you raise that revenue. Broadening the tax base would be the most effective way.

Um, no it wouldn't you dolt! That would do far more harm to the economy than only letting the Bush-era wartime tax cuts expire on the top earners...

What's funny is how easily deluded you are even in your own economic Kool Aidz™ beliefs of lower taxes is always great for the economy, the notions of "how" and "why" you clearly cannot comprehend...

[BigBadBrian]

Um, no it wouldn't you dolt! That would do far more harm to the economy than only letting the Bush-era wartime tax cuts expire on the top earners...

What's funny is how easily deluded you are even in your own economic Kool Aidz™ beliefs of lower taxes is always great for the economy, the notions of "how" and "why" you clearly cannot comprehend...

You have no clue of what I was talking about, that much is obvious by your reply. Nick, seek help!!! Preferably in an economics classroom!

[Nickdfresh]

You have no clue of what I was talking about, that much is obvious by your reply. Nick, seek help!!! Preferably in an economics classroom!


Agreed. Even a family of 4 making 20K can chip in $100 a year in taxes.

If you get a full refund from the IRS, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!!

How 'bout this one? YOU HAVE NO CLUE...

A family of four is in poverty on $20K! And's that's $100 less spent on groceries, diapers, insurance, gas, etc. Why don't YOU go into a fucking classroom?..

[DavidLeeNatra]

Why don't YOU go into a fucking classroom?..

he tried...couldn't find it...

[Nickdfresh]

he tried...couldn't find it...

He was too busy hanging out with the guys in the gym locker room...

[DavidLeeNatra]

He was too busy hanging out with the guys in the gym locker room...


bending for the soap...

[ELVIS]

And the steroid injection...

[DavidLeeNatra]

And the steroid injection...


and using this...big time...

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vakuum-Penispumpe-Penis-Pumpe-Power-Potenzhilfe-Penisverlaengerung-Enlarger-Mann-/00/s/MTAwMFgxMDAw/$T2eC16dHJHwE9n8ii-sRBQNjgpp7Dg~~60_35.JPG

[Nitro Express]

and using this...big time...

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vakuum-Penispumpe-Penis-Pumpe-Power-Potenzhilfe-Penisverlaengerung-Enlarger-Mann-/00/s/MTAwMFgxMDAw/$T2eC16dHJHwE9n8ii-sRBQNjgpp7Dg~~60_35.JPG

If the TSA found that on you, they would think it was some sort of terrorist device.

[Dr. Love]

I think they should...they receive far more benefits this country has to offer as far and security and infrastructure and often statistically do less for the consumerist economy overall. Also, the continued trends are a slipping middle class with stagnant wages while CEO's pocket books have swelled in the last 30 years. Corporate profits have never been better, yet they're have far less investment in their workers than ever with the obsolescence of pensions in favor of 401K's for example. So yes, those who benefit the most and give back the least should have to pay more taxes...

I have no problem with paying more, I just think everyone should pay a little more. We're all in this together, and we should all work to get out of it together. We need to pay down our debt and reduce our deficits until things are balanced again. I'm for everyone's tax rates going up by some arbitrary number (3%?) and putting that additional revenue towards financial repair for the nation and at the same time reducing overall spending across the board, starting with the military budget.

Not suggesting that you are saying this, but I have a real problem with anyone saying they think other people should pay more to fix a problem we all share. Comes across as though people only care about the problem so long as they aren't a part of the solution.

We have a big financial problem in this country. Everyone needs to chip in and bail us out. Everyone. It's not sacrifice if we only expect one group to do it.

[knuckleboner]

Depends on how you raise that revenue. Broadening the tax base would be the most effective way.

broadening the base can be very ineffective if it causes lower income individuals to pay more taxes - i.e. taking more money out of spending. you take an extra $100 from somebody making $20,000 and that is definitely $100 gone from the spending. take an extra 1% from the top tax bracket and there's no loss of spending. yes, there's probably a loss of investment capital, but that's not as much of an impact on economic growth as direct expenditure.

[LoungeMachine]

Maybe because the top 1% received the largest GIMME from the Bush Tax Cuts, which were a mistake, and now should have to give back more?

Maybe because the 2 wars that were off-budget, made many, many people incredible wealthy?

Maybe because most of the 1% have been living large off of incredible tax loopholes and giveaways, such as "carried interest" and capital gains that are too low?

:gulp:

And maybe because the Middle Class that built this country and defended this country deserves a fucking break?

[Nitro Express]

They are just going do a last minute scramble and kick the can down the road again. One reason this country sucks is you can't even come up with a five year business plan because the stupid government can't come up with a solid budget or tax plan. Since taxes are one of the biggest expenses it's nice to know what they are going to be. It will be the usual bickering and not much substance.

[BigBadBrian]

How 'bout this one? YOU HAVE NO CLUE...

A family of four is in poverty on $20K!

Yeah, at least I caught your attention with that figure. It was intentionally a little extreme.

My point is everyone should be paying income taxes. We can have a minimum cut-off...no problem there but most people can afford to pay income taxes. I know people making $60K that get a full refund. That is wrong.

BTW - you can get caught up in Elvis' and David Lee Natra's circle-jerk if you want, but I think you're better than that. Those two are not. :gulp:

[ELVIS]

Notice how your mood calms down when you've been off the juice for a few days ??

Keep up the good work...


:elvis:

[kwame k]

I have no problem with paying more, I just think everyone should pay a little more. We're all in this together, and we should all work to get out of it together. We need to pay down our debt and reduce our deficits until things are balanced again. I'm for everyone's tax rates going up by some arbitrary number (3%?) and putting that additional revenue towards financial repair for the nation and at the same time reducing overall spending across the board, starting with the military budget.

Not suggesting that you are saying this, but I have a real problem with anyone saying they think other people should pay more to fix a problem we all share. Comes across as though people only care about the problem so long as they aren't a part of the solution.

We have a big financial problem in this country. Everyone needs to chip in and bail us out. Everyone. It's not sacrifice if we only expect one group to do it.

I'm starting to think it's not a bad idea.

Increase everyone's taxes to pay for our 2 wars, tell people they're doing it because we went to war and occupied/rebuilt 2 countries!

I bet the next time the Hawks start their saber rattling the American people would refuse to let them war.

Seriously though, it's a pretty simple answer here.......all they'd be doing is letting a Tax Break expire!!!!! Not raising taxes but putting them back to where they were:pullinghair:

Close the corporate loopholes and the subsides to big oil........reduce our military spending by half! Get the fuck out of areas we don't belong, close useless military bases around the globe and start investing money back into this country.....our infrastructure! Simple!

[Nickdfresh]

Yeah, at least I caught your attention with that figure. It was intentionally a little extreme.

My point is everyone should be paying income taxes. We can have a minimum cut-off...no problem there but most people can afford to pay income taxes. I know people making $60K that get a full refund. That is wrong.

BTW - you can get caught up in Elvis' and David Lee Natra's circle-jerk if you want, but I think you're better than that. Those two are not. :gulp:

Almost everyone is paying taxes, payroll taxes are still income taxes. And retirees and others with little income need to be putting their money back into the economy, not paying Federal Income taxes...

Tell me how people making $60K+ can get a full refund, cause I want to know!

[BigBadBrian]

reduce our military spending by half! !

Ridiculous! :gulp:

[BigBadBrian]

I have no problem with paying more, I just think everyone should pay a little more.

That'll happen on 1 January if something between POTUS and Congress isn't worked out. I can't believe they're arguing over the $250,000 limit and raising taxes BS. The solution there is so simple (a solution that both sides should go for) it's ridiculous.

Barack, I'm waiting on your call. :biggrin:

[Satan]

Here's the flaw with the idea of raising everybody's taxes.....

The economic damage of the last 32 years was specifically CAUSED by the tax "cuts" for the rich tax dodgers which came from Reagan and Chimpy, as well as other bullshit economic policies like ending Glass Steagal, NAFTA, refusing to enforce laws that are still on the books such as the Sherman Act, etc.

It comes down to this: Before 1980, the so-called "job creators" either could invest the money they made back into their business, or they would have to pay taxes on it. It made no sense for them to cut corners and outsource to cheap labor in order to make excessive profits, because they would have to pay taxes on those profits, and what's the fun in that?

So instead, they expanded their businesses, hired more people at decent living wages, and the people making those wages had plenty of money to spend, which means they were buying more stuff, which in turn meant more stuff needed to be made, which then meant more people needed to be hired to make it.

Reality based, demand-side economics. It was so simple it could be explained in a fucking cartoon.....



Elfmer Fudd got it. Somehow 32 years of politicians can't??

So yes, it's the rich who need to pick up their burden. They're the ones who dropped it in the first place.

[Nitro Express]

I hate income taxes. Replace them with a national sales tax and then maybe exclude certain things like food. The rich will pay more because they buy more. You would get all the tax dodgers and everyone pays some tax. Everyone needs some skin in the game because it would force people to be more politically involved when government spending is concerned. You tend to watch the politicians more when it's your money they waste.

[envy_me]

You don't have sales tax??????

[Nitro Express]

I'm starting to think it's not a bad idea.

Increase everyone's taxes to pay for our 2 wars, tell people they're doing it because we went to war and occupied/rebuilt 2 countries!

I bet the next time the Hawks start their saber rattling the American people would refuse to let them war.

Seriously though, it's a pretty simple answer here.......all they'd be doing is letting a Tax Break expire!!!!! Not raising taxes but putting them back to where they were:pullinghair:

Close the corporate loopholes and the subsides to big oil........reduce our military spending by half! Get the fuck out of areas we don't belong, close useless military bases around the globe and start investing money back into this country.....our infrastructure! Simple!

That's all made possible because Nixon took us off the gold standard in 1971. When your central bank can print the amount of money needed and then deffer the debt to future generations, the current cluster fuck is the result. When your currency is actually backed by commodities, you can't get into huge amounts of debt because you only have so much money in the treasury and you have to be careful how it's managed. I think the attitude of many is who cares, I won't be alive when it comes to roost. The rampant spending of the last two president have sped up the day of reckoning. This is a debtor nation and inflation is good for the government because it can make it's debt easier to pay off. It's lousy for citizens on fixed incomes and those who save their money in US Dollars. Basically I'm positioned to where inflation won't hurt me so much and I'm betting against the Federal Reserve and the US Government. It's all how you position yourself and those who hold US Dollars in long-term investments are going to get burned big time. Anyone even buying long-term US Treasury Bonds at this time is taking a risk. Not too long ago you could buy US Treasuries and not worry. This is how much things have changed in a decade.

They are going to kill the US Dollar. The next question is what replaces it? Is this done on purpose to usher in another currency like the Euro? or is it just plain incompetence? It does seem like a few oligarchs want consolidated currencies like the Euro and global taxes like the carbon tax. If you sit in their seat, these measures makes the world easier to control. They tried it in Europe but it didn't work because countries didn't follow the rules on spending. Politicians will use that money to buy votes and to keep themselves in power and it just gets expensive. Then you end up with one country Germany footing the bill. One German put it this way, why should Germans retire at age 80 so a Greek can retire at age 40?

So these unions just don't work without sound money management and that is what is missing. Right now there really isn't a good currency world wide. The dollar was always popular because it's the world's reserve currency and the US was politically stable, but now people are cautious on the US Dollar. It's a mess.

[Nitro Express]

You don't have sales tax??????

Not on the national scale. Taxes vary city to city and state to state. In Oregon they don't have any sales tax for the state. That's why people from Washington state go to Portland to do some shopping. Here in Wyoming we don't have a state income tax and that is why more Californians are making Wyoming their primary residence and still keep a home in California. It's to escape the ever increasing California state income taxes. About half my neighbors are from California. Taxes have a huge impact on why things are. If you go to Amsterdam you see those tall skinny houses. Why they were built that way is you got taxed on the buildings footprint so they just built up and that's why those structures look funny. Tax policy has a huge affect on society, how things are built and how people live.

If you live in New York City you have to pay city income tax, state income tax, and federal income tax. So here in the states, where you live determines what kind of taxes you are going to be paying.

[Nitro Express]

Flat taxes seem to work well with church's. You pay your 10% tithing and it goes into the budget. In the case of the Mormon Church everyone payed 10% but the local people still had to build their own local buildings and raise a local budget. Eventually there was enough money in Salt Lake City from investing the tithing the church could do away with local budgets and a centralized building department now builds and maintains the buildings. So if a church can do this with a flat tax why can't a government? It used to be you payed 10% tithing, the building fund, and the local ward budget. Now members just pay the 10% because the money was well invested in the past. It's basically a flat tax working.

[envy_me]

Not on the national scale. Taxes vary city to city and state to state. In Oregon they don't have any sales tax for the state. That's why people from Washington state go to Portland to do some shopping. Here in Wyoming we don't have a state income tax and that is why more Californians are making Wyoming their primary residence and still keep a home in California. It's to escape the ever increasing California state income taxes. About half my neighbors are from California. Taxes have a huge impact on why things are. If you go to Amsterdam you see those tall skinny houses. Why they were built that way is you got taxed on the buildings footprint so they just built up and that's why those structures look funny. Tax policy has a huge affect on society, how things are built and how people live.

If you live in New York City you have to pay city income tax, state income tax, and federal income tax. So here in the states, where you live determines what kind of taxes you are going to be paying.


So whole Oregon is just like a big Tax-Free shop :-)

We have tax on EVERYTHING. But people who live outside of EU can get a tax free form and get the tax back at the customs. But they only get about half back, the half is payed to the customs :D
I try to avoid and inform people about that, that is not my job to do. But if they ask, of course I'll give it to them. But us Europeans probably never get our tax money back if we shop outside of EU.
Chinese are obsessed. "Tah fee, tah fee, discount?". I also love when people from Norway get the wrong info and demand their tax free. Then you calmly have to explain that they are the exception. They don't get money back even if they are outside of the union :D

[Nitro Express]

So whole Oregon is just like a big Tax-Free shop :-)

We have tax on EVERYTHING. But people who live outside of EU can get a tax free form and get the tax back at the customs. But they only get about half back, the half is payed to the customs :D
I try to avoid and inform people about that, that is not my job to do. But if they ask, of course I'll give it to them. But us Europeans probably never get our tax money back if we shop outside of EU.
Chinese are obsessed. "Tah fee, tah fee, discount?". I also love when people from Norway get the wrong info and demand their tax free. Then you calmly have to explain that they are the exception. They don't get money back even if they are outside of the union :D

Socialist countries always have high tax rates. It's what pays for all the government sponsored services. When I was in Norway I couldn't believe how expensive food and other things were. Compared to the US it seemed like robbery. Our prices are way lower here. I had a crown come loose and needed to go see a dentist. When I asked how much the bill was going to be they said it was covered. I said by who and they said the government. I said I was not a Norwegian citizen and they said it didn't matter. They weren't set up to take payment. I found it very strange.

Oh the Chinese are the most capitalistic people on the planet. I don't know how they ever managed to become communist. I'm probably more capitalistic than the average American because of spending some of my childhood in Hong Kong. They treat money with respect. You better have your wits about you when you negotiate with the Chinese. They will get the upper hand on you. It was all about negotiating and deal making. I can deffinately see them asking for the discount and if they are main landers as we called them in Hong Kong, they will have a bit of attitude. LOL!

[envy_me]

I just looked it up and saw that your sales tax is 0-13%. Our is 25% :-/

[FORD]

I just looked it up and saw that your sales tax is 0-13%. Our is 25% :-/

Yeah, but you get decent roads, schools, and health care for that money, right?

And no high fructose corn poison in your food?

[Nitro Express]

So whole Oregon is just like a big Tax-Free shop :-)

We have tax on EVERYTHING. But people who live outside of EU can get a tax free form and get the tax back at the customs. But they only get about half back, the half is payed to the customs :D
I try to avoid and inform people about that, that is not my job to do. But if they ask, of course I'll give it to them. But us Europeans probably never get our tax money back if we shop outside of EU.
Chinese are obsessed. "Tah fee, tah fee, discount?". I also love when people from Norway get the wrong info and demand their tax free. Then you calmly have to explain that they are the exception. They don't get money back even if they are outside of the union :D

Norway stayed out of the EU because they have all the oil and gas resources. They also have the Norwegian Pension Fund that they invest some of their oil money into so the future Norwegains have something when the oil runs out. Nothing to be gained by joining the EU for them. I don't think the Euro or the Union are going to last anyways. It was just thrown together by some oligarchs to rob nations of their money. You just can't have a few people paying the way of the rest. It does not work.

[Nitro Express]

Yeah, but you get decent roads, schools, and health care for that money, right?

And no high fructose corn poison in your food?

If the money is managed well and if that's what the citizens want. But you have way less choice than here.

[envy_me]

Socialist countries always have high tax rates. It's what pays for all the government sponsored services. When I was in Norway I couldn't believe how expensive food and other things were. Compared to the US it seemed like robbery. Our prices are way lower here. I had a crown come loose and needed to go see a dentist. When I asked how much the bill was going to be they said it was covered. I said by who and they said the government. I said I was not a Norwegian citizen and they said it didn't matter. They weren't set up to take payment. I found it very strange.

Oh the Chinese are the most capitalistic people on the planet. I don't know how they ever managed to become communist. I'm probably more capitalistic than the average American because of spending some of my childhood in Hong Kong. They treat money with respect. You better have your wits about you when you negotiate with the Chinese. They will get the upper hand on you. It was all about negotiating and deal making. I can deffinately see them asking for the discount and if they are main landers as we called them in Hong Kong, they will have a bit of attitude. LOL!


Croatians are even more generous. I was there for a couple of months, visiting my grandparents, and needed medication. Here if you pay for meds up untill maybe 200 dollars, then it's free. But in Croatia they gave it to me for free. I didn't understand at all how it works. First of all their meds are really, really cheap. i just came in said give me this, this, that, etc, here's the money. And they wouldn't give me anything until i came back with my grandmothers ID. I have double citizenship, both swe and cro, but i don't reside there. And when I came back with my grandmothers ID, i got everything for free. I have no idea what happend, or how it works.
Can you get meds at all if you don't have relatives residing there?

[envy_me]

Norway stayed out of the EU because they have all the oil and gas resources. They also have the Norwegian Pension Fund that they invest some of their oil money into so the future Norwegains have something when the oil runs out. Nothing to be gained by joining the EU for them. I don't think the Euro or the Union are going to last anyways. It was just thrown together by some oligarchs to rob nations of their money anyways. You just can't have a few people paying the way of the rest. It does not work.

I really don't like EU either, but it's good to have a counterweight to USA. Same with euro, I don't want it, but i'm glad it exists.

[envy_me]

Yeah, but you get decent roads, schools, and health care for that money, right?

And no high fructose corn poison in your food?


I am really not satisfied with health system here at all. Waiting period for an appointment is astronomical. Doctors are lazy and not good. In Croatia it's much better. Those doctors work for real. Here it's just fika that gets done...

[Nitro Express]

Croatians are even more generous. I was there for a couple of months, visiting my grandparents, and needed medication. Here if you pay for meds up untill maybe 200 dollars, then it's free. But in Croatia they gave it to me for free. I didn't understand at all how it works. First of all their meds are really, really cheap. i just came in said give me this, this, that, etc, here's the money. And they wouldn't give me anything until i came back with my grandmothers ID. I have double citizenship, both swe and cro, but i don't reside there. And when I came back with my grandmothers ID, i got everything for free. I have no idea what happend, or how it works.
Can you get meds at all if you don't have relatives residing there?

Here it's up to the doctor or dentist how generous they are going to be. Some might give someone who needs it free care. Some might barter. I know one doctor who accepted a desk made by a patient because the patient was cash poor. The government just stays out of it or used to. My doctor is cash only but his rates are way cheaper because he doesn't have to put up with all the over head.

[Nitro Express]

I am really not satisfied with health system here at all. Waiting period for an appointment is astronomical. Doctors are lazy and not good. In Croatia it's much better. Those doctors work for real. Here it's just fika that gets done...

That's the norm for socialized medicine anywhere. Providing the care is actually cheap and for the most part, 85% of the population are healthy. It's in providing the insurance and drugs where the money is, not the healthcare and that's really where the corruption lies along with frivolous law suits. We had great healthcare in the states and for the most part is was affordable until prices skyrocketed the last two decade due to lawyers and insurance companies and drug companies buying politicians.

Most the doctors I know went into medicine because that is where their interest was and for the most part, they want to help people. You don't go into family practice to get rich. Most those doctors are middle class. You don't make money in medicine until you become a specialist.

[envy_me]

Croatia is even more socialist, but their system is totally different. It's efficiant and fast. I honestly think it has to do with the mentality of people. in that certain country.

[kwame k]

Ridiculous! :gulp:

Yeah, right......because the military industrial complex hasn't made enough in the last decade and they couldn't squeak by on a measly 500 billion a year:headlights:

[kwame k]

Here's a good article about the breakdown of our Defense Budget a few are a stretch but pretty good none the less...........

............In fact, with projected cuts added in, the national security budget in fiscal 2013 will be nearly $1 trillion—a staggering enough sum that it’s worth taking a walk through the maze of the national security budget to see just where that money’s lodged.

If you’ve heard a number for how much the United States spends on the military, it’s probably in the neighborhood of $530 billion. That’s the Pentagon’s base budget for fiscal 2013, and represents a 2.5 percent cut from 2012. But that $530 billion is merely the beginning of what the United States spends on national security. Let’s dig a little deeper.

The Pentagon’s base budget doesn’t include war funding, which in recent years has been well over $100 billion. With US troops withdrawn from Iraq and troop levels falling in Afghanistan, you might think that war funding would be plummeting as well. In fact, it will drop to a mere $88 billion in fiscal 2013. By way of comparison, the federal government will spend around $64 billion on education that same year.

Add in war funding, and our national security total jumps to $618 billion. And we’re still just getting started.

The US military maintains an arsenal of nuclear weapons. You might assume that we’ve already accounted for nukes in the Pentagon’s $530 billion base budget. But you’d be wrong. Funding for nuclear weapons falls under the Department of Energy (DOE), so it’s a number you rarely hear. In fiscal 2013, we’ll be spending $11.5 billion on weapons and related programs at the DOE. And disposal of nuclear waste is expensive, so add another $6.4 billion for weapons cleanup.

Now, we’re at $636 billion and counting.

How about homeland security? We’ve got to figure that in, too. There’s the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), which will run taxpayers $35.5 billion for its national security activities in fiscal 2013. But there’s funding for homeland security squirreled away in just about every other federal agency as well. Think, for example, about programs to secure the food supply, funded through the US Department of Agriculture. So add another $13.5 billion for homeland security at federal agencies other than DHS.

That brings our total to $685 billion.

Then there’s the international affairs budget, another obscure corner of the federal budget that just happens to be jammed with national security funds. For fiscal 2013, $8 billion in additional war funding for Iraq and Afghanistan is hidden away there. There’s also $14 billion for what’s called “international security assistance”—that’s part of the weapons and training Washington offers foreign militaries around the world. Plus there’s $2 billion for “peacekeeping operations,” money US taxpayers send overseas to help fund military operations handled by international organizations and our allies.

That brings our national security total up to $709 billion.

We can’t forget the cost of caring for our nation’s veterans, including those wounded in our recent wars. That’s an important as well as hefty share of national security funding. In 2013, veterans programs will cost the federal government $138 billion.

That brings us to $847 billion—and we’re not done yet.

Taxpayers also fund pensions and other retirement benefits for non-veteran military retirees, which will cost $55 billion next year. And then there are the retirement costs for civilians who worked at the Department of Defense and now draw pensions and benefits. The federal government doesn’t publish a number on this, but based on the share of the federal workforce employed at the Pentagon, we can estimate that its civilian retirees will cost taxpayers around $21 billion in 2013.

By now, we’ve made it to $923 billion—and we’re finally almost done.

Just one more thing to add in, a miscellaneous defense account that’s separate from the defense base budget. It’s called “defense-related activities,” and it’s got $8 billion in it for 2013.

That brings our grand total to an astonishing $931 billion.

And this will turn out to be a conservative figure. We won’t spend less than that, but among other things, it doesn’t include the interest we’re paying on money we borrowed to fund past military operations; nor does it include portions of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration that are dedicated to national security. And we don’t know if this number captures the entire intelligence budget or not, because parts of intelligence funding are classified.

For now, however, that whopping $931 billion for fiscal year 2013 will have to do. If our national security budget were its own economy, it would be the nineteenth largest in the world, roughly the size of Australia’s. Meanwhile, the country with the next largest military budget, China, spends a mere pittance by comparison. The most recent estimate puts China’s military funding at around $136 billion.

Or think of it this way: National security accounts for one quarter of every dollar the federal government is projected to spend in 2013. And if you pull trust funds for programs like Social Security out of the equation, that figure rises to more than one third of every dollar in the projected 2013 federal budget.

Yet the House recently passed legislation to spare the defense budget from cuts, arguing that the automatic spending reductions scheduled for January 2013 would compromise national security. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta has said such automatic cuts, which would total around $55 billion in 2013, would be “disastrous” for the defense budget. To avoid them, the House would instead pull money from the National School Lunch Program, the Children’s Health Insurance Program, Medicaid, food stamps and programs like the Social Services Block Grant, which funds Meals on Wheels, among other initiatives.

Yet it wouldn’t be difficult to find savings in that $931 billion. There’s plenty of low-hanging fruit, starting with various costly weapons systems left over from the Cold War, like the Virginia class submarine, the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft, the missile defense program and the most expensive weapons system on the planet, the F-35 jet fighter. Cutting back or cancelling some of these programs would save billions of dollars annually.

In fact, Congress could find much deeper savings, but it would require fundamentally redefining national security in this country. On this issue, the American public is already several steps ahead of Washington. Americans overwhelmingly think that national security funding should be cut—deeply.

If lawmakers don’t pay closer attention to their constituents, we already know the alternative: pulling school-lunch funding.

Chris Hellman and Mattea Kramer May 22, 2012

Link (http://www.thenation.com/article/168002/how-much-does-washington-spend-defense#)

[Nitro Express]

Croatia is even more socialist, but their system is totally different. It's efficiant and fast. I honestly think it has to do with the mentality of people. in that certain country.

Usually where the people have had it easy for awhile they get a bit complacent and lazy. Sometimes a bit of fire on your ass is a good thing. Croatia has had more recent rough times than Sweden has. I've been checking out pictures of Croatian beaches. Very blue water.

[Nitro Express]

The US has morphed into an entertainment and war economy. We export entertainment, war, and weapons. Oh and we export recycled cardboard. So really these wars are nothing more than creating a market for our products. So until we can somehow turn the war industry into a consumer manufacturing industry, nothing really is going to change. The thing is we are running out of countries to pummel. Eisenhower was dead on right when he gave that warning about the Military Industrial Complex.

[envy_me]

Usually where the people have had it easy for awhile they get a bit complacent and lazy. Sometimes a bit of fire on your ass is a good thing. Croatia has had more recent rough times than Sweden has. I've been checking out pictures of Croatian beaches. Very blue water.

It's fantastic! The ocean, the nature, the ocean :D Every time I look at pictures I get so nostalgic.

Here people are SO slooooow. Even in stores like where I work. It's just a struggle trying to make people take some action and do something. They are really polite though. Which is more then what I can say about Croatians. But croatians are more honest. They can tell you you gained weight to your face. Like "Look at you, you like our food, I see, hahaha". Here nobody will EVER tell you something like that.
There are such huge differences in mentality between countries in Europe...

[FORD]

Thom Hartmann is talking about "spending" vs "investment" right now on the radio. It's important that we know the difference, especially when it comes to cutting the government budget.

Consider, for example the "defense" budget vs food stamps or education.

Every dollar wasted in Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq is GONE forever. There will not be a return on that spending. Not now, not ever.

Food stamps, on the other hand, are pure stimulus. People who receive that benefit immediately spend it, as there's nothing else you can do with it. So in addition to that person not starving to death, they also are "buying" food, which keeps their local grocery store and the food companies who stock their shelves in business. Unemployment compensation works in much the same way, as it goes immediately back into the economy. Obviously neither one should be a long term solution for anybody, but at least it keeps someone in that situation at least mildly participating in that economy, and in the case of a mass layoff - like for example that Sensata plant in Illinois that Mittens Bain Capital just sold off to the Chinese, it may save the larger local economy, if all those people aren't left with entirely NO money to spend on anything.

The right winger who want to cut food stamps and unemployment have it exactly backwards. It would actually make more sense to DOUBLE the spending on these programs, because that money DOES go immediately back into the economy, which means it might very well increase demand for goods and services, which in turn might require more hiring, which would then return people to employment, and get them off of the safety net programs.

Just another example of how reality based demand side economics works, and supply side Randtard fiction does not.