I need your help

[Seshmeister]

Seriously.

This can only come across as attention whoring but in my defence I have anonymized the songs so am not pimping my stuff(not that there would be anything too bad about doing that IMHO).

Anyhoo in a few weeks my band is recording a video from our first album thing. We have the use of a big club for a live performance thing and are even being provided with a few nice ladies to dance if required.

The problem comes with choosing which song to do. We've been trying to work out which to go for based on taste and feedback and have it down to 2 possibilities.

It occurred to me why not do a poll here? This place is one of the only ones I can think of with the correct demographic of people where some may like the music and after all these years I greatly trust the opinion and musical taste of many of you. It's unlikely we will have the budget to do more than one video/promotion thing so I need to chose the right one.

I'm too close to this to make the call so would genuinely appreciate any help you could give. I guess I would want you to give your opinion as if you were our manager or promoter not necessarily the song you think is best. Which would be most likely to help get the band radio play, gigs etc.

Thanks!

Song A - Alive
http://soundcloud.com/tcp_review/alive

Song B - But Can You
http://soundcloud.com/tcp_review/but-can-u

[ELVIS]

I'd say scrap the idea until you come up with better lead vocals...

Both songs are OK with good backing and chorus vocals...

I'm not digging the vocals though so it's hard to say which I'd go with...

Lemme try 'em again later...


:elvis:

[DONNIEP]

Alive. And best of luck Sesh!

[Seshmeister]

I'd say scrap the idea until you come up with better lead vocals...

Both songs are OK with good backing and chorus vocals...

I'm not digging the vocals though so it's hard to say which I'd go with...

Lemme try 'em again later...


:elvis:

Fair enough.

I'm fine with the vocals. I've tend to like character rather than the perfect thing, this is maybe more LA Guns than Pavarotti. :-)

Plus we had a week in the studio rather than 6 or 8.

Maybe give it a second listen?

The main reason for the thread though is whether to go for the obvious catchy 2nd song or the maybe better 1st song that has a minute long old school guitar solo with no backing.

[Hardrock69]

Wow. Alive is very interesting.

Jee-zusss Sesh! That solo stuff you? Fucking awesome! Love your guitar sound, mate! :thumb:

I say "Alive" is the more radio-friendly and the most "even" in it's transitions from verse to chorus, chorus to other bits, etc.

On "But Can U", when the verses arrive, they are weak compared to the rest of the song.

"Alive" is more even.....the verses fit the vibe better, and so are not as weak compared to the choruses, etc. as on BCU.

Also, even though the choruses ARE strong on BCU, that is just not enough. And the fast part at the end sort of kills it for being radio-friendly.

You want me to be ruthless? Like a record company guy? Or your manager? Ok. This is what I HEAR. As you said, all of us here won't gain anything by lying to you (unless it is Krusty, who hates everything and will tell you your band sucks fucking ass anyway).

Have your mate go take some lessons. Flat vocals with no vibrato won't go over with the public. Vocals should convey some excitement technique-wise, even when on a slow tune. Vibrato will do that. He needs more vibrato on his voice. Like Dio, Tate, Halford, Ann Wilson, etc.

Of course, I can understand lead vox being a bit dull if your vocalist is also playing guitar or bass. Not everyone can be a killer vocalist while playing onstage. And yes, you are done with the recording process, so no going back now, lol.

And of course, my apologies if YOU are the vocalist. :hee:

The lead vocalist has a decent range, and decent projection, but needs to listen to someone like David Lee Roth. We all know Dave is not considered a great singer technique-wise, but he has capitalized on his strength...which is being one of the the greatest frontmen in rock history. Sorry, I can't say THE greatest, when you have to consider peeps like Freddie Mercury, etc. ;)

Dave adds excitement to a song even when there are no vocals going on. Whoops, hollers, whistles, grunts, just miscellaneous improvisations that add a sort of off-the-cuff excitement to the tune. Know whut I mean? ;)

The lead vocals just sound a bit too flat....meaning a bit too boring. Sorta like Vince Neil. I always found his delivery to be lacking for that same reason.

There are other things I cannot judge. He may be a superior front man, despite not being an amazing "singer". You may have a severe lack of good rock vocalists in your immediate area. Of course, I would assume he may be one of your closest friends, easy to get along with, may have many other abilities that make him a great fit for the band.

His vocals, and his choice of some of the melody lines in the verses seem to be the weak link. In all three songs you got posted there, the choruses are kickass!


While I was typing this lengthy answer, you posted above that you are fine with the vox. Note I did not say your vocalist was "bad", just that I feel there is some room for improvement.

Overall, I think you have a good solid band who can write and record good solid hard rock songs! Congrats! :thumb:

[Seshmeister]

Plus the Internet thing.

If I ask any of my real life friends I can't get a straight answer to anything. Firstly because most of them are Bob Dylan or Smiths fans and secondly because they act like you have asked them if they think your 8 year daughter is pretty or not. :)

[Hardrock69]

:lmao:

True!

[Hardrock69]

Thing is....when you say "Radio", these days that means "YouTube", as that is now the global radio station.

I hope that the video shoot goes well, and you have much more success!

[DONNIEP]

Hey Sesh - I got a question. Are you gonna post the video here? You should. And wear your Roth Army shirt when you shoot it :)

[Seshmeister]

Wow. Alive is very interesting.

Jee-zusss Sesh! That solo stuff you? Fucking awesome! Love your guitar sound, mate! :thumb:

I say "Alive" is the more radio-friendly and the most "even" in it's transitions from verse to chorus, chorus to other bits, etc.

On "But Can U", when the verses arrive, they are weak compared to the rest of the song.

"Alive" is more even.....the verses fit the vibe better, and so are not as weak compared to the choruses, etc. as on BCU.

Also, even though the choruses ARE strong on BCU, that is just not enough. And the fast part at the end sort of kills it for being radio-friendly.

You want me to be ruthless? Like a record company guy? Or your manager? Ok. This is what I HEAR. As you said, all of us here won't gain anything by lying to you (unless it is Krusty, who hates everything and will tell you your band sucks fucking ass anyway).

Have your mate go take some lessons. Flat vocals with no vibrato won't go over with the public. Vocals should convey some excitement technique-wise, even when on a slow tune. Vibrato will do that. He needs more vibrato on his voice. Like Dio, Tate, Halford, Ann Wilson, etc.

Of course, I can understand lead vox being a bit dull if your vocalist is also playing guitar or bass. Not everyone can be a killer vocalist while playing onstage. And yes, you are done with the recording process, so no going back now, lol.

And of course, my apologies if YOU are the vocalist. :hee:

The lead vocalist has a decent range, and decent projection, but needs to listen to someone like David Lee Roth. We all know Dave is not considered a great singer technique-wise, but he has capitalized on his strength...which is being one of the the greatest frontmen in rock history. Sorry, I can't say THE greatest, when you have to consider peeps like Freddie Mercury, etc. ;)

Dave adds excitement to a song even when there are no vocals going on. Whoops, hollers, whistles, grunts, just miscellaneous improvisations that add a sort of off-the-cuff excitement to the tune. Know whut I mean? ;)

The lead vocals just sound a bit too flat....meaning a bit too boring. Sorta like Vince Neil. I always found his delivery to be lacking for that same reason.

There are other things I cannot judge. He may be a superior front man, despite not being an amazing "singer". You may have a severe lack of good rock vocalists in your immediate area. Of course, I would assume he may be one of your closest friends, easy to get along with, may have many other abilities that make him a great fit for the band.

His vocals, and his choice of some of the melody lines in the verses seem to be the weak link. In all three songs you got posted there, the choruses are kickass!


While I was typing this lengthy answer, you posted above that you are fine with the vox. Note I did not say your vocalist was "bad", just that I feel there is some room for improvement.

Overall, I think you have a good solid band who can write and record good solid hard rock songs! Congrats! :thumb:

Thanks for this.

It's a 4 piece band, I play guitar, the singer only sings and is a good front man, bass player is a bit of a Mike Anthony with great backing vox.

As I posted earlier its maybe a little unfair to judge it compared to say the Van Halen album where it was recorded a line at a time over weeks but that's not how it should work as we are putting this up as being 'equal'.

As far as singers go I feel disloyal even commenting on that as at the moment he is pretty much the only singer I do know, and I thought he did a good job.

The world is full of bedroom guitarists, there are very few singers especially when you get to our age.

[ELVIS]

I guess I'd go with the Billy Idol meets Winger hit with the long CC Deville solo - Alive...

I can't get all the way through the second tune...


:biggrin:

[ELVIS]

The vocals on the second song sound a bit like the Goat and Your Mom dude...:biggrin:

[Seshmeister]

Hey Sesh - I got a question. Are you gonna post the video here? You should. And wear your Roth Army shirt when you shoot it :)

I may just.

I can't make my mind up about it.

I've been posting here for 12 years, apparently according to the front page I have the most likes and I really enjoy coming here.

I don't do much personal interaction or whatever with folk but I think most of you are great. That said every couple of years a weird cunt pops up and tries to fuck up someone's life, usually someone who is a moderator here so that's a little unnerving although I'm fairly bullet proof being my own boss but who needs the hassle?

That said I can of course PM you stuff. It's kind of funny that on one hand you have people stressed about privacy here but at the same time sharing their addresses with all sorts of folk via PM for bootlegs.

I would trust 99% of people here with my bank details but you have to remember the 1%

[Seshmeister]

I guess I'd go with the Billy Idol meets Winger hit with the long CC Deville solo - Alive...

I can't get all the way through the second tune...


:biggrin:

CC DeVille?

Fuck you pal. :-)

[DLR Bridge]

I'd go with the 2nd tune for a vid. Almost sounds like it could be a Ratt B-side to Way Cool Jr. or something. Has a nice pop to it.

[jhale667]

I vote "Alive"... I hear a little Rhoads influence in the solo maybe? :D

[Seshmeister]

Wow. Alive is very interesting.

Jee-zusss Sesh! That solo stuff you? Fucking awesome! Love your guitar sound, mate! :thumb:


It's just 2 guitar tracks but each with 2 mikes at different distances.

The main guitar is an Ibanez RG thing with a DiMarzio Tone Zone pickup going straight into an Orange Rockerverb. The second guitar is my Schecter V with Seymour Duncan Custom Custom pickup and an Engle 100 watt head.

I don't mean to be a dick about this but I found that there was a vast difference between recording 30 guitar tracks in a couple of afternoons to an acceptable level of timing and pretending to be Malmstein in your bedroom in front of the mirror like some of our posters... ;-)

[Seshmeister]

I vote "Alive"... I hear a little Rhoads influence in the solo maybe? :D

Two other people said that to me after a gig in December. I thought it was because I was playing a Flying V thing and looked dead. :-)

I took it as a compliment, the solo on that song is very pentatonic but it just felt right.

[Frodo]

I like the second tune better.

[Kristy]

Gee, another failed musician thread.

What are the odds around here that more are sure to follow?

[FORD]

The second tune "But Can You" seems a little more "radio-friendly", so it might make a better first single/video. Though I actually like "Alive" better.

[Nitro Express]

Gee, another failed musician thread.

What are the odds around here that more are sure to follow?

Kristy. Can I have a dollar?

[Hardrock69]

Two other people said that to me after a gig in December. I thought it was because I was playing a Flying V thing and looked dead. :-)


:hee:


No worries man. Like I said, you wanted the harsh criticism, and I did not say your singer was bad.
We all have room for improvement. ;)

And here is what I would do with the vid: Just send a link through pm to peeps you trust. That way you don't have to worry about the idiots.

[VAiN]

I'm going with 'Alive'.. I feel it has more meat to it. I find it a more interesting song overall.

Best of luck to you and the band!

[twonabomber]

Personally I prefer Alive, but I think But Can U would be a better choice for the video. Maybe because of the length. They're both good songs though.

[Nitro Express]

I like But You Can. The song has some swagger and swing to it. Your bass player sounds like he's getting some fret buzz. He might want to raise the action or give the neck some more relief and it should go away and he will get a fuller deeper tone. You need to boost the mids and the highs in the mix and cut the bass a tad. The drums sound a little thin. The snare needs to be brought forward and mixed so it has a nice thunk to it.

I listened to it through some nice Grado Labs head phones so I could hear all the details.

Hire some strippers to dance in your video to this song and that will be the cherry on the sundae.

[ELVIS]

CC DeVille?

Fuck you pal. :-)

My bad...

I meant to say Rhoads...


:biggrin:

[vandeleur]

If its for radio and promotion purposes But can you .
You are asking for peoples time and they are gonna give you as little of it as they can and But can you is more immediate.

As an aside a video is a terrible way to get gigs/radio promotion ( good way to spunk money tho :D).
Well radio promotion using a visual media is obvious.
Most promoters I know and I know/used to know shit loads are gonna bang your cd in the car on the way to work or in stereo in their office , a video isnt going to appeal to them , it means effort to find a way to play it so why bother from their point of view there are plent more cd's for them to check.
You have to remember most promoter/radio people are as burnt out and cynical as us you have to make it easy for them.

When we released singles we sent out samplers of the intro/chorus of songs, get them interested Its fly fishing for attention .....shiney shiney

Any way its all good stuff and good look with the Album etc and if your in the north east giz a shout and i will come along and make some noise in the audience.

Oh feel free to tell me to fuck off .....what do I know , if I knew better I wouldnt be talking to the likes of you lot :biggrin:

[ThrillsNSpills]

I think the track posted as Atomic Sesh would be the best choice.

It's more accessible on the first listen, and with attention spans being what they are, you need something instantly compelling.

[DLR Bridge]

Good point. That tune was on fire.

[VAiN]

Good point. That tune was on fire.

Agreed.. I wasn't expecting it and found myself really enjoying it. You're a good player, Shesh - go with it and follow the dream.

[ZahZoo]

I'd go with But Can U... It's got a great party, dance vibe and sharp hook to it. Little pop but subtle and dark enough to rock.

Trash can party... great line and hook. Lot's of potential for video imagery!!

Guitar work is solid throughout. Nice interplay between your rhythms/leads with the bass work.

Just for a fun angle... change the name to Butt Can U...

[Nitro Express]

If its for radio and promotion purposes But can you .
You are asking for peoples time and they are gonna give you as little of it as they can and But can you is more immediate.

As an aside a video is a terrible way to get gigs/radio promotion ( good way to spunk money tho :D).
Well radio promotion using a visual media is obvious.
Most promoters I know and I know/used to know shit loads are gonna bang your cd in the car on the way to work or in stereo in their office , a video isnt going to appeal to them , it means effort to find a way to play it so why bother from their point of view there are plent more cd's for them to check.
You have to remember most promoter/radio people are as burnt out and cynical as us you have to make it easy for them.

When we released singles we sent out samplers of the intro/chorus of songs, get them interested Its fly fishing for attention .....shiney shiney

Any way its all good stuff and good look with the Album etc and if your in the north east giz a shout and i will come along and make some noise in the audience.

Oh feel free to tell me to fuck off .....what do I know , if I knew better I wouldnt be talking to the likes of you lot :biggrin:

I think you made some good points here. We all are A&R people while we drive our cars. You get on satellite radio and start hitting the search button. You blow through a bunch of stuff until something sounds interesting. So the song has to be interesting up front and there has to be something different than what everyone else is doing and it has to be good.

[Hardrock69]

Hey, if Sesh wants to promote the band to people who do not care for videos, all he has to do is send them a CD!

Not that hard to do!

Or just email them an mp3!

[ELVIS]

What would the world do without your brilliance ??

[Jérôme Frenchise]

"But Can U" - but can you not release 2 or even 3 or 4 tracks on a single?

"Atomic Sesh" would make it too!

Cool title by the way! :)

Go Sesh!

:bottle:

[Nitro Express]

Hey, if Sesh wants to promote the band to people who do not care for videos, all he has to do is send them a CD!

Not that hard to do!

Or just email them an mp3!

You want to get attention so put some sexy female orgasmic moans at the beginning of the song and toss a few into the song to blend the effect. Maybe add some dirty sexy talk too. Hey, sex still sells.

[Nickdfresh]

"But Can U." Catchier riff, more universal subject matter and whatnot...

[ELVIS]

Going to a party and sticking your fist in the air like you just don't care might be "universal subject matter" to you or whatever...

I think it's lame...

The first song is much better...

[ZahZoo]

Sounds like you don't get invited to parties much...

Both songs are great, BTW. I just think Butt Can U has the catchier hook to it.

[ELVIS]

No, I really don't care for parties or party songs...

[Seshmeister]

Hey, if Sesh wants to promote the band to people who do not care for videos, all he has to do is send them a CD!

Not that hard to do!

Or just email them an mp3!

Sure I've got boxes of CDs here... :)


To clarify the video thing, the singer has a friend who does videos, I have a pal who runs a club who offered it and his dancers(not strippers) so we get it all for nothing. My original thought was the But Can You song with a Dusk Til Dawn look for the same reasons people have given above it being a straightforward hook and more suited to a performance video in a club.
http://www.robeuk.com/fileadmin/robe/media/photo/archive/inst_classic_grand1.jpg

Listening to the album over the holidays and then a few people picking out the Buried song then made me start to think that we should go for that instead.

It's kind of unclear to me what a single is these days, like on the last Van Halen album, apart from that you are picking a song to promote further on other mediums like YouTube because you can't do them all.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback here it's helping although I'm still not sure what to do, I'm moving back more towards the second song again. :)

[Nitro Express]

Take advantage of even opportunity. It looks like a nice club.

As far as A Different Kind of Truth goes, I would have released China Town as a single. I think the best way to pick a single is just pretend you are stuck in traffic bored off your ass and then listen to the songs and see which one takes you out of your boredom. It has to grab you. If you think too much about it you just over analyze it and confuse yourself more. Music is emotional so it's got you move you. If you have to think about it, you are overcompensating for not being moved emotionally by it.

[Seshmeister]

I think it's easy to get too close to it and not see the woods for the trees especially if you have spent a lot of time with it like VH did in the studio. I think that's why a little polling is interesting.

In the case of ADKOT there are two or three songs that seem to poll highly here which maybe wouldn't be so obvious as commercial like 'As Is' and 'Chinatown'.

In the olden times rock bands would release a more hardcore song for their fans and then maybe something a bit more commercial I guess the idea being to use the grassroots to get things moving and then build from there. Looking at some of the biggest selling albums it seemed to work eg. I'm thinking of GNR who I think some people would be surprised to learn released 'It's So Easy' as their first single from Appetite or even Def Leppard releasing 'Woman' as the first from Hysteria.

[Nickdfresh]

No, I really don't care for parties or party songs...

No! Shit!! Really?!?!

I guess when after every party you go to you find yourself waking up three days later with a bloody asshole lying in an alleyway, that might be a good policy...

[ashstralia]

i like but can u. the engineer could've/should've got the vocals louder and clearer though, imho.

[Seshmeister]

Why is it it seems my mortgage has to be paid every 20 minutes but band stuff takes so long?

This thread was 5 months ago?

I'm back in looking because it is finally all getting booked up now for the start of September but it's going to be a 3 song thing with 2 others I haven't shared yet. I'm still not further on because the 3rd song is between the two I asked about here. My instinct was to go for the 1st, you guys voted 2-1 for the second so I guess either way it should be fine. :)

[Seshmeister]

i like but can u. the engineer could've/should've got the vocals louder and clearer though, imho.

It's a worry to me. I think the verse has the weakest vocals on the whole album but it is hooky.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

but can you is more catchy. your talents are more showcased on alive. i'll do three sentences for warf.:love0066:

[binnie]

Both would make good singles, but for me 'Buried Alive' has thr edge.