View Full Version : Venezuela's Hugo Chavez dies from cancer
Nickdfresh
03-05-2013, 05:18 PM
REUTERS (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/05/us-venezuela-chavez-idUSBRE92405420130305) - Jorge Silva
http://www.foxnews.com/images/463425/0_61_111008_chavez.jpg
By Andrew Cawthorne and Daniel Wallis
CARACAS | Tue Mar 5, 2013 5:09pm EST
(Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has died after a two-year battle with cancer, ending the socialist leader's 14-year rule of the South American country, Vice President Nicolas Maduro said in a televised speech.
The flamboyant 58-year-old leader had undergone four operations in Cuba for a cancer that was first detected in his pelvic region in mid-2011. His last surgery was on December 11 and he had not been seen in public since.
"It's a moment of deep pain," Maduro, accompanied by senior ministers, said, his voice choking.
Chavez easily won a new 6-year term at an election in October and his death will devastate millions of supporters who adored his charismatic style, anti-U.S. rhetoric and oil-financed policies that brought subsidized food and free health clinics to long-neglected slums.
Detractors, however, saw his one-man style, gleeful nationalizations and often harsh treatment of opponents as evidence of an egotistical dictator whose misplaced statist economics wasted a historic bonanza of oil revenues.
Chavez's death paves the way for a new election that will test whether his socialist "revolution" can live on without his dominant personality at the helm.
(Reporting by Andrew Cawthorne and Daniel Wallis; Additional reporting by Girish Gupta, Mario Naranjo, Marianna Parraga and Patricia Velez in Caracas, David Adams in Miami, Daniel Bases in New York; Editing by Kieran Murray and Sandra Maler)
Seshmeister
03-05-2013, 06:00 PM
A few people had him in the Roth Army death pool I think.
A high scorer too - 42 points.
No surprise here, since he's been sick for a long time. But I feel bad for the Venezuelan people, considering the shitstorm of right wing fascism which will probably be unleashed on them soon.
They tried to overthrow Chavez two or three times and failed. They definitely would consider his absence an opportunity to plan a coup and install a puppet.
MUSICMANN
03-05-2013, 06:20 PM
Bet this one is crying like a baby
9628
Hardrock69
03-05-2013, 07:02 PM
No surprise here, since he's been sick for a long time. But I feel bad for the Venezuelan people, considering the shitstorm of right wing fascism which will probably be unleashed on them soon.
They tried to overthrow Chavez two or three times and failed. They definitely would consider his absence an opportunity to plan a coup and install a puppet.
"They" can also seriously mean the CIA.
And you can bet a dollar the alphabet agency was in favor of the overthrow attempts.
"They" can also seriously mean the CIA.
And you can bet a dollar the alphabet agency was in favor of the overthrow attempts.
Yep. This coup was brought to you by the letters B, C, and E. Through their client agency the C, I, and A.
And it was all about the O, I, and L.
Seshmeister
03-05-2013, 07:41 PM
Hopefully the people will get something in the middle.
Chavez was far from your ideal leader. My pal who would be politically left of the Democrat party at least said when he was there that there were plenty of cool smart people who hated Chavez.
Seshmeister
03-05-2013, 07:46 PM
Bet this one is crying like a baby
9628
Don't believe the media circus, what has Obama ever actually done in power that was socialist?
He's about as left wing as Ronnie Reagan.
Don't believe the media circus, what has Obama ever actually done in power that was socialist?
He's about as left wing as Ronnie Reagan.
Hell, at least Reagan openly admitted that rich fucks should pay higher taxes than bus drivers......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTBt5APga7Q
The Repukes of today would call him a "socialist". Which makes it all the more ironic that they think he was some sort of Messiah.
Vaya con Dios, Hugo Chàvez, mi Amigo
Tuesday, March 5, 2013
By Greg Palast
As a purgative for the crappola fed to Americans about Chavez, my foundation, The Palast Investigative Fund, is offering the film, The Assassination of Hugo Chavez, as a FREE download. (http://www.gregpalast.com/chavezdownload/) Based on my several meetings with Chavez, his kidnappers and his would-be assassins, filmed for BBC Television. DVDs also available.
Media may contact Palast at interviews (at) gregpalast.com.
Venezuelan President Chavez once asked me why the US elite wanted to kill him. My dear Hugo: It's the oil. And it's the Koch Brothers – and it's the ketchup.
Reverend Pat Robertson said,
"Hugo Chavez thinks we're trying to assassinate him. I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it."
It was 2005 and Robertson was channeling the frustration of George Bush's State Department.
Despite Bush's providing intelligence, funds and even a note of congratulations to the crew who kidnapped Chavez (we'll get there), Hugo remained in office, reelected and wildly popular.
But why the Bush regime's hate, hate, HATE of the President of Venezuela?
Reverend Pat wasn't coy about the answer: It's the oil.
"This is a dangerous enemy to our South controlling a huge pool of oil."
A really BIG pool of oil. Indeed, according to Guy Caruso, former chief of oil intelligence for the CIA, Venezuela hold a recoverable reserve of 1.36 trillion barrels, that is, a whole lot more than Saudi Arabia.
If we didn't kill Chavez, we'd have to do an "Iraq" on his nation. So the Reverend suggests,
"We don't need another $200 billion war….It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."
Chavez himself told me he was stunned by Bush's attacks: Chavez had been quite chummy with Bush Senior and with Bill Clinton.
So what made Chavez suddenly "a dangerous enemy"? Here's the answer you won't find in The New York Times:
Just after Bush's inauguration in 2001, Chavez' congress voted in a new "Law of Hydrocarbons." Henceforth, Exxon, British Petroleum, Shell Oil and Chevron would get to keep 70% of the sales revenues from the crude they sucked out of Venezuela. Not bad, considering the price of oil was rising toward $100 a barrel.
But to the oil companies, which had bitch-slapped Venezeula's prior government into giving them 84% of the sales price, a cut to 70% was "no bueno." Worse, Venezuela had been charging a joke of a royalty – just one percent – on "heavy" crude from the Orinoco Basin. Chavez told Exxon and friends they'd now have to pay 16.6%.
Clearly, Chavez had to be taught a lesson about the etiquette of dealings with Big Oil.
On April 11, 2002, President Chavez was kidnapped at gunpoint and flown to an island prison in the Caribbean Sea. On April 12, Pedro Carmona, a business partner of the US oil companies and president of the nation's Chamber of Commerce, declared himself President of Venezuela – giving a whole new meaning to the term, "corporate takeover."
U.S. Ambassador Charles Shapiro immediately rushed down from his hilltop embassy to have his picture taken grinning with the self-proclaimed "President" and the leaders of the coup d'état.
Bush's White House spokesman admitted that Chavez was, "democratically elected," but, he added, "Legitimacy is something that is conferred not by just the majority of voters." I see.
With an armed and angry citizenry marching on the Presidential Palace in Caracas ready to string up the coup plotters, Carmona, the Pretend President from Exxon returned his captive Chavez back to his desk within 48 hours. (How? Get The Assassination of Hugo Chavez, the film, expanding on my reports for BBC Television. You can download it for free for the next few days.)
Chavez had provoked the coup not just by clawing back some of the bloated royalties of the oil companies. It's what he did with that oil money that drove Venezuela's One Percent to violence.
In Caracas, I ran into the reporter for a TV station whose owner is generally credited with plotting the coup against the president. While doing a publicity photo shoot, leaning back against a tree, showing her wide-open legs nearly up to where they met, the reporter pointed down the hill to the "ranchos," the slums above Caracas, where shacks, once made of cardboard and tin, where quickly transforming into homes of cinder blocks and cement.
"He [Chavez] gives them bread and bricks, so they vote for him, of course." She was disgusted by "them," the 80% of Venezuelans who are negro e indio (Black and Indian)—and poor. Chavez, himself negro e indio, had, for the first time in Venezuela's history, shifted the oil wealth from the privileged class that called themselves "Spanish," to the dark-skinned masses.
While trolling around the poor housing blocks of Caracas, I ran into a local, Arturo Quiran, a merchant seaman and no big fan of Chavez. But over a beer at his kitchen table, he told me,
"Fifteen years ago under [then-President] Carlos Andrés Pérez, there was a lot of oil money in Venezuela. The ‘oil boom' we called it. Here in Venezuela there was a lot of money, but we didn't see it."
But then came Hugo Chavez, and now the poor in his neighborhood, he said, "get medical attention, free operations, x-rays, medicines; education also. People who never knew how to write now know how to sign their own papers."
Chavez' Robin Hood thing, shifting oil money from the rich to the poor, would have been grudgingly tolerated by the US. But Chavez, who told me, "We are no longer an oil colony," went further…too much further, in the eyes of the American corporate elite.
Venezuela had landless citizens by the millions – and unused land by the millions of acres tied up, untilled, on which a tiny elite of plantation owners squatted. Chavez' congress passed in a law in 2001 requiring untilled land to be sold to the landless. It was a program long promised by Venezuela's politicians at the urging of John F. Kennedy as part of his "Alliance for Progress."
Plantation owner Heinz Corporation didn't like that one bit. In retaliation, Heinz closed its ketchup plant in the state of Maturin and fired all the workers. Chavez seized Heinz' plant and put the workers back on the job. Chavez didn't realize that he'd just squeezed the tomatoes of America's powerful Heinz family and Mrs. Heinz' husband, Senator John Kerry, now U.S. Secretary of State.
Or, knowing Chavez as I do, he didn't give a damn.
Chavez could survive the ketchup coup, the Exxon "presidency," even his taking back a piece of the windfall of oil company profits, but he dangerously tried the patience of America's least forgiving billionaires: The Koch Brothers.
How? Well, that's another story for another day. [Watch this space. Or read about it in the book, Billionaires & Ballot Bandits. Go to BallotBandits.org).
Elected presidents who annoy Big Oil have ended up in exile—or coffins: Mossadegh of Iran after he nationalized BP's fields (1953), Elchibey, President of Azerbaijan, after he refused demands of BP for his Caspian fields (1993), President Alfredo Palacio of Ecuador after he terminated Occidental's drilling concession (2005).
"It's a chess game, Mr. Palast," Chavez told me. He was showing me a very long, and very sharp sword once owned by Simon Bolivar, the Great Liberator. "And I am," Chavez said, "a very good chess player."
In the film The Seventh Seal, a medieval knight bets his life on a game of chess with the Grim Reaper. Death cheats, of course, and takes the knight. No mortal can indefinitely outplay Death who, this week, Chavez must know, will checkmate the new Bolivar of Venezuela.
But in one last move, the Bolivarian grandmaster played a brilliant endgame, naming Vice-President Nicolas Maduro, as good and decent a man as they come, as heir to the fight for those in the "ranchos." The One Percent of Venezuela, planning on Chavez's death to return them the power and riches they couldn't win in an election, are livid with the choice of Maduro.
Chavez sent Maduro to meet me in my downtown New York office back in 2004. In our run-down detective digs on Second Avenue, Maduro and I traded information on assassination plots and oil policy.
Even then, Chavez was carefully preparing for the day when Venezuela's negros e indios would lose their king—but still stay in the game.
Class war on a chessboard. Even in death, I wouldn't bet against Hugo Chavez.
* * * * * * * *
Investigative reporter Greg Palast covered Venezuela for BBC Television Newsnight and Harper’s Magazine.
Palast is the author of the New York Times bestsellers Billionaires & Ballot Bandits: How to Steal an Election in 9 Easy Steps, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, Armed Madhouse and the highly acclaimed Vultures' Picnic, named Book of the Year 2012 on BBC Newsnight Review.
Visit the Palast Investigative Fund's store or simply make a contribution to keep our work alive!
Subscribe to Palast's Newsletter and podcasts.
Follow Palast on Facebook and Twitter.
www.GregPalast.com
sadaist
03-06-2013, 04:21 AM
Vaya con Dios, Hugo Chàvez, mi Amigo
Easy to forget that as much as we may dislike or even hate the guy, he was someones friend, father, brother, partner. Cancer sucks.
I am a little surprised how quickly it got him. They hid what type & what his actual treatments were fairly well. I wonder if he had the best care if he would still be alive. Just when you think of cutting edge cancer treatments Havana, Cuba doesn't spring to mind.
Anyways, I feel bad for his daughters. Sucks losing one of your parents.
Nitro Express
03-06-2013, 05:12 AM
Hell, at least Reagan openly admitted that rich fucks should pay higher taxes than bus drivers......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTBt5APga7Q
The Repukes of today would call him a "socialist". Which makes it all the more ironic that they think he was some sort of Messiah.
Reagan wasn't the fascist that the Bushes were. Some even think George Herbert Walker Bush was behind Reagan's assassination attempt.
Nitro Express
03-06-2013, 05:14 AM
I still won't forget when Chavez spoke at the UN and made the comment that the place still reeked of sulfur because the devil George W. Bush was there the day before. LOL!
katina
03-06-2013, 09:43 AM
I wish the best to the people of Venezuela.
Now they have the unique chance to change their future for good.
clarathecarrot
03-06-2013, 10:07 AM
I wish the best to the people of Venezuela.
Now they have the unique chance to change their future for good.
I have been waiting for you to say something I know you haven't been very political around here and that is smart .
The beasties here, will eat your lunch with opinions but ..since you live in, South America.
? ( with the internet I have no idea who really lives where..lol)
I thought you may have a perspective on what is the correct actions now, and is the South American situation really a socialist bunch of crap or the best thing for those developing areas of the country.
I realize developing is a American slam against countries, our news media wants to paint, as less.. than, as cool as the USA.
Living a life the way you want too,, but not the way someone else sees as best gets the label, Developing...Industrial Strenght to me doesn't make a country better.
So, do you have some harsh words for the Venezualan situation or the Argentinian..?
Or the situation isn't as troublesome as we may think\..?
Nickdfresh
03-06-2013, 01:28 PM
Hopefully the people will get something in the middle.
Chavez was far from your ideal leader. My pal who would be politically left of the Democrat party at least said when he was there that there were plenty of cool smart people who hated Chavez.
From what I gathered he had some good points regarding eradicating poverty. But he seems to have been the cult-of-personality-type that manifests itself into an inevitable belligerence. He was also a conspiracy buff that didn't seem too bright to some journalists who spent time with him and was apt to squander the country's immense oil wealth simply by just being generally an asshole waging class warfare for the sake of it in the name of becoming Fidel Castro-lite instead of pursuing more moderate policies to achieve his ends, which seemed more about him rather than about his constituency often. Plus, he supported fascist assholes everywhere in the name of mindless Anti-Americanism...
Seshmeister
03-06-2013, 01:58 PM
So on the whole better than average for the region. :)
Nitro Express
03-06-2013, 02:05 PM
The only way to really know how good or bad Chavez was is to talk to actual people who lived under him. One thing for sure, I bet the Chavez family have a pretty good nest egg stashed away in Switzerland, Monaco, and the Cayman Islands. Caracas should look like Dubai with all the oil wealth they have there.
Nickdfresh
03-06-2013, 02:30 PM
So on the whole better than average for the region. :)
Probably. But he spent massive sums on his military and has a very powerful and technically sophisticated Air Force unrivaled in the region and his blunders at the State oil companies have set back his economy when it should have been booming. Slight modifications of his policies and Venezuela would be a much better place for both the rich and poor, without his needless belligerence to the U.S. Many of his biggest, and most hounded, critics were leftists...
PBS, not exactly a bastion of American conservatism, did an interesting take on him a few years back in which he seemed to be sort of a double-edged prick...
PBS Frontline: The Hugo Chavez Show (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hugochavez/)
<object width = "666" height = "375" > <param name = "movie" value = "http://dgjigvacl6ipj.cloudfront.net/media/swf/PBSPlayer.swf" > </param><param name="flashvars" value="width=666&height=375&video=http://video.pbs.org/videoinfo/Gij9xYPQsiY09TQkeuqqjA==/?player=PBS_Partner_Player_v2&start=0&end=0&balance=true&player=viral&chapter=3&lr_admap=in:warnings:0;in:pbs:0" /> <param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param > <param name = "allowscriptaccess" value = "always" > </param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param ><embed src="http://dgjigvacl6ipj.cloudfront.net/media/swf/PBSPlayer.swf" flashvars="width=666&height=375&video=http://video.pbs.org/videoinfo/Gij9xYPQsiY09TQkeuqqjA==/?player=PBS_Partner_Player_v2&start=0&end=0&balance=true&player=viral&chapter=3&lr_admap=in:warnings:0;in:pbs:0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" wmode="transparent" allowfullscreen="true" width="666" height="375" bgcolor="#000000"></embed></object><p style="font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #808080; margin-top: 5px; background: transparent; text-align: center; width: 512px;">Watch <a style="text-decoration:none !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#4eb2fe !important;" href="http://video.pbs.org/video/1082085620" target="_blank">The Hugo Chavez Show</a> on PBS. See more from <a style="text-decoration:none !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#4eb2fe !important;" href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/" target="_blank">FRONTLINE.</a></p>
The only way to really know how good or bad Chavez was is to talk to actual people who lived under him. One thing for sure, I bet the Chavez family have a pretty good nest egg stashed away in Switzerland, Monaco, and the Cayman Islands. Caracas should look like Dubai with all the oil wealth they have there.
Yes, no question...but the poor did like him and he could have been continually reelected...
I wonder if he had the best care if he would still be alive. Just when you think of cutting edge cancer treatments Havana, Cuba doesn't spring to mind.
Well, if Castro himself is any indication, Cuban health care must be pretty good.
Interesting article on the Cuban health system being a model for poor countries here (http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2012/fitz071212.html)
...though I'm not exactly sure how that would apply to a foreign head of state coming to Havana for treatment.
katina
03-06-2013, 03:13 PM
I have been waiting for you to say something I know you haven't been very political around here and that is smart .
The beasties here, will eat your lunch with opinions but ..since you live in, South America.
? ( with the internet I have no idea who really lives where..lol)
I thought you may have a perspective on what is the correct actions now, and is the South American situation really a socialist bunch of crap or the best thing for those developing areas of the country.
I realize developing is a American slam against countries, our news media wants to paint, as less.. than, as cool as the USA.
Living a life the way you want too,, but not the way someone else sees as best gets the label, Developing...Industrial Strenght to me doesn't make a country better.
So, do you have some harsh words for the Venezualan situation or the Argentinian..?
Or the situation isn't as troublesome as we may think\..?
Clara, I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. I am against, opposed to communism and populism.
I do have some harsh words for the argentinian situation, (rampant corruption), I copied some information in english, maybe you already know about it.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2294/argentina-iran-nuclear-cooperation
"With the help of Venezuela, there is reason to believe that Argentina is cooperating with Iran on its the nuclear issue in a deal that involves Argentina's willingness to drop the accusations against Iran for the 1994 bombing in return for business.
In a confidential letter that was sent by Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, who chairs the House Foreign Relations Committee, to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Ros-Lehtinen sought to establish "status of any possible economic projects Argentina may be engaged in with Venezuela that may involve Iran." Ros-Lehtinen also sought to establish "the extent of any nuclear cooperation that may be at play between Argentina, Venezuela and Iran." The letter was co-signed by Florida's Republican Congressmen Connie Mack and David Rivera. "We are writing to express our concerns about information that our offices have received about potential efforts by Iran of nuclear cooperation with Argentina, using Venezuela as its intermediary," the three legislators wrote.
The existence of economic projects linking Iran, Venezuela and Argentina have long been known. Univision, a Spanish-language television network in the United States, mentions that, in the framework of this cooperation, Venezuela has launched a program for the development of at least 200 "socialist factories" through agreements with Iran and Argentina -- mainly food processing plants and industrial equipment factories. Although the funding involved about $300 million, most of these factories have not been built and, very likely, will never be built. The suspicion is that financial resources have been diverted for different purposes: in particular that the so-called agricultural program is a cover-up operation to hide payments that have nothing to do with food factories.
In the past, Argentina and Iran maintained a nuclear cooperation agreement that, under pressure from U.S. President George Bush, was suspended in the early 1990s by then-President Carlos Menem, But more recently, Iran has become interested in acquiring scientific know-how and technology from the Argentine nuclear program. The Miami Herald reports that in 2007 Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had asked Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, on a personal basis, to to use his good relations with Argentine President Cristina Fernandez Kirchner to convince her to restart nuclear cooperation with Iran. Further, the website La Patilla published information about a meeting on February 6, 2010 between the Venezuelan vice President Elias Jaua and the Argentinean Planning Minister, Julio De Vido, close assistant to President Fernandez Kirchner, in which they discussed nuclear cooperation. Though the evidence implicating Argentina with Iran in nuclear development is yet not clear, last April the Argentinean paper Perfil reported that in a meeting last January with Iran's ally, Syrian President Bashar Assad, the Argentinean Foreign Minister, Hector Timerman, offered to drop investigations in Iran relating to the 1994 bombings in Buenos Aires against the Argentine Israelite Mutual Association (AMIA). In return, it seems, Timerman's desire was to deepen economic relations between Buenos Aires and Teheran.
According to Perfil, Syria then passed the Argentinean FM's offer to Iran. In a leaked cable quoted by the newspaper, Iranian Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi allegedly told the Iranian President that "Argentina is no longer interested in solving those two attacks, but in exchange prefers improving its economic relations with Iran."
The AMIA bombing
This year marks the 17th anniversary of the AMIA bombing, which killed 87 people and injured more than 100, in 1994. Argentina was also hit by a terrorist attack in 1992; the bombing targeted the Israel Embassy in Buenos Aires, killed 29 people and wounded 242. In both events, Hezbollah and Iran are suspected of having perpetrated the terrorist attacks. To date, however, there has been no justice.. The person believed to be the bombings's planner is Ahmad Vahidi, the current Iranian Defense Minister, who recently visited Bolivia after a controversial official invitation by Bolivian President Evo Morales.
The Iranian government recently said that is offering its help to "uncover the truth" behind the AMIA bombing. The Iranian Foreign Ministry wrote in a statement that "the ministry denounces the fact that the truth about the criminal action has become the target of plots and political games and that Argentine officials at the time, whose illegal actions have been disclosed and convicted by the court in this regard, misled judicial investigation and set the stage for the escape of real culprits behind the atrocity from the hands of justice through pointing a finger of blame at a number of nationals of the Islamic Republic of Iran."
Despite these hypocritical remarks, and despite the fact that Iran says that the Argentinean justice leveled false allegations against Hezbollah and Iran, the current Argentinean government thanked Iran for offering its help. Argentine Foreign Minister Hector Timerman said that Iran's offer is "an unprecedented and very positive step." The Associated Press reported that Iran, which denies that Iranian citizens were involved, is even preparing its own report on the bombing and wants to begin a dialogue with the Argentines to help solve the case. Given the fact that in the past the Iranian government has accused the "Zionists" of perpetrating the 1994 bombing, the report will most likely bring paradoxical allegations that the "Jews" committed the attack against the Jewish center in Buenos Aires.
Still, the Argentinean FM Timerman said he is optimistic that Iran will help solve the case: "There is sufficient evidence to bring to trial various Iranian citizens, and we want to see if, through this dialogue, they will understand that we all have to submit ourselves to justice." As some Argentinean media recently put it, Buenos Aires is apparently more interested in pursuing a rapprochement with Tehran, with all the good business that will follow, than pursuing the cause of justice. It is clear from Timerman's words of appeasement that even a country such as Argentina, which suffered from terrorist attacks inspired by Iran, is willing to turn the page and open its doors to doing business with the Ayatollahs. What then are the chances for trade and military sanctions against Iran to succeed?
Iran looks to diversify allies in Latin America
The worries expressed by Ros-Lehtinen and her colleagues only add another tessera to the mosaic that Iran is preparing south of America's doorstep. In response, the U.S. State Department answered Ros-Lehtinen with the following statement: "We have no evidence to support the claim that Venezuela serves as an interlocutor between Iran and Argentina on nuclear issues, nor that Argentina is granting Iran access to its nuclear technology. Argentina has long maintained a constructive position at the International Atomic Energy Agency with respect to Iran's nuclear program". There is no reason, unfortunately, to be reassured by the words of the State Department.
Meir Javedanfar, an Iranian-Israeli political analyst, points out that, as Iran's staunchest ally in Latin America, Venezuela's President, Hugo Chavez, was diagnosed with a cancer, which means that the Venezuelan President might move further down in his alliance with Iran on its priority list. Chavez's illness may be why Iran could try to forge a strong alliance with another important Latin American country:: Argentina. Although it is not yet clear whether Argentina is sending nuclear technology to Iran with the help of Venezuela, it is a reality that Teheran wants to diversify its relations in Latin America away from Venezuela.
For now, the Argentinean government is responding exactly as Iran wishes, as can bee seen in the Argentinean FM's warm and friendly statements on Iran's cooperation in the case of AMIA. Argentina is not just helping the mullahs' regime by opening new doors in Latin America, it is also whitewashing Iran's terrorist record, would leave hundreds of victims and their families permanently deprived of justice."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/01/29/they-dont-mix-argentina-iran-and-truth/
"In 1994 a terrorist drove a truck with explosives into the Argentina Israelite Mutual Association headquarters in Buenos Aires. The blast killed 85 and wounded hundreds. Argentinian courts placed responsibility for the bombing on Iran (although incompetence and corruption hobbled a decades-long legal process), which has steadfastly refused to cooperate with the investigation, bring those responsible to justice or provide compensation to the victims and their families. (Hezbollah claimed responsibility for a 1992 bombing of the Israeli consulate that killed 29.)
Now, in a move that stunned Israel and international Jewish groups, Argentina agreed to set up a “truth commission” with Iran. The Anti-Defamation League issued a statement:
Argentina’s apparent willingness to collaborate with the Iranian regime’s nearly 20-year effort to evade being brought to justice under the Argentine criminal justice system is deeply disturbing.
The recently announced Memorandum of Understanding is an unprecedented attempt to establish a mechanism with no enforcement powers to internationalize the criminal proceedings against Iranian nationals with ties to the world’s most notorious state sponsor of terrorism which have been pursued for years by professional Argentine prosecutors.
This latest maneuver by Iran with shocking cooperation of the government of Argentina sets up an extrajudicial process which will further delay, and may even eliminate, the possibility of bringing the accused Iranian perpetrators of the terrorist attack to justice under Argentine law. We call on President Kirchner to reconsider this affront to the victims and survivors and to the criminal justice system of Argentina.
The prolonged pain and suffering of the survivors and the families of the victims of the most devastating terror attack on a Jewish institution in the Western hemisphere are all but forgotten in this ill-considered agreement.
The Simon Wiesenthal Center responded to the news: “It will whitewash terrorism and encourage the mullahs to become patrons of further attacks.”
Israeli government’s reaction was swift. Reuters reports: “The forming of the commission, announced during the weekend, was seen as a diplomatic win for Iran as it confronts a U.S.-led effort to isolate Tehran because of its nuclear program.” In addition, the Israeli Foreign Ministry said in a statement. “The Argentine ambassador in Israel will be summoned to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Jerusalem to provide explanations.” And the Jerusalem Post quoted Israeli officials: “‘The announcement came as a complete surprise and shock,’ Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor told AFP news agency about the establishment of the new committee. ‘We warned the Argentineans that the Iranians were trying to manipulate them and set a trap for them that they will use for their propaganda purposes.’ . . . Argentina’s courts have already found Iran culpable, and even issued Interpol warrants against five Iranians and a Lebanese for the attack, including Iranian Defense Minister Ahmad Vahidi.” Israeli officials suspect this is a ploy by Argentina to obtain better relations with Iran.
The U.S. response was surprisingly low key. At the State Department there was this exchange at the daily press briefing:
QUESTION: Yeah. La Nacion from Argentina. I’ll Silvia Pisani. I would like to ask you if you have any comment or – about a recent agreement that Argentina arrived with Iran concerning the bombings in the AMIA.
MS. NULAND: Well, our position on the AMIA bombing is clear. It remains unchanged for the last 18 years. We in the international community have joined the Argentine Government and victims of this horrific attack in seeking justice. We continue to stress that the Iranian Government has a responsibility to cooperate fully with Argentine authorities in seeing that the perpetrators are brought to justice. We’re – obviously, that has not been something that the Iranians have been forthcoming about, but we’ll continue to make the points publicly.
QUESTION: So, is this a good – is this a step in the right direction, that they’re going to engage in this process?
MS. NULAND: To engage in a truth commission?
QUESTION: Yes, because it doesn’t necessarily lead to – usually, such commissions don’t actually lead to prosecutions. You just tell the truth and – so, I mean, is this a step in the right direction or not? Or do you not know?
MS. NULAND: Well, I think we all, obviously, have all wanted to see the perpetrators brought to justice, so if the Argentine Government thinks this might take us closer to that, then we’ll have to see.
Is this part of the administration’s generally lackluster stance toward Iran? Part of its refusal to recognize Venezuela’s Hugo Chavez’s toxic influence in our hemisphere?
It is hard to believe we would not have more to say or more interest in a Mickey Mouse commission that paves the way for an Iranian diplomatic coup. Argentine President Cristina Fernandez increasingly has been following the lead of Chavez and in extending an olive branch to Tehran seems to be trying to mimic Chavez’s coziness with the mullahs. This is, in short, a very bad sign for the Western Hemisphere, evidence that Iran is certainly not “isolated” internationally as the administration insists and another regrettable indication that we don’t take Israel’s concerns very seriously."
Nitro Express
03-06-2013, 03:42 PM
I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. I am against, opposed to communism and populism.
Yeah such governments have a bad history of leaving lots of dead bodies in their wakes. I've seen too many refugees from such governments over my lifetime and a visit to the USSR even when they treated us great showed it's not a good system. Oddly enough in our two hour education class in Leningrad they told us capitalism always evolves into communism. Well what they were really saying is you need an economic crisis and lot's of disgruntled people to push communism into power. I have no doubt the economic problems in this country have been purposefully engineered for such a purpose. The banks make money trashing the economy and the communist dictators or fascist dictators are puppets of the banks. The Kochs, Rockefellers, and Armand Hammer did business deals behind the iron curtain. It didn't exist for them.
People should know better now and when people think giving up private ownership for a promise of a utopia is a great idea, it makes me cringe.
Nitro Express
03-06-2013, 03:45 PM
Well, if Castro himself is any indication, Cuban health care must be pretty good.
Interesting article on the Cuban health system being a model for poor countries here (http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2012/fitz071212.html)
...though I'm not exactly sure how that would apply to a foreign head of state coming to Havana for treatment.
You got your healthcare system. It's called Obamacare. Remember? Enjoy.
You got your healthcare system. It's called Obamacare. Remember? Enjoy.
It's not my healthcare system. Not the one I wanted at all. Or voted for, for that matter.
Seshmeister
03-06-2013, 04:24 PM
Well, if Castro himself is any indication, Cuban health care must be pretty good.
And they manage to provide this despite an appalling blockade from the US.
katina
03-07-2013, 10:53 AM
but the poor did like him and he could have been continually reelected...
I agree with you , if Chavez would not die, he would be continually reelected.
And that is what is going to happen here in Argentina, part of the problem is that the vote is mandatory (it´s not a right, it´s compulsory), this is why the vote from the poor is so easy to buy and is very well organized by corrupt politicians.
The Kirchner´s 1st. presidency period began is 2003, Cristina is trying to amend the constitution to run a 3rd. term, her son Máximo is well organized to make it happen. Please, read this:
2 TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS SPONSORED BY THE PRESIDENT OF ARGENTINA CRISTINA FERNANDEZ DE KIRCHNER
LA CAMPORA & VATAYON MILITANTE
"LA CAMPORA - a semi military style terrorist organization that is led by Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner's son - MaximoKirchner. It is named after former a known Argentine terrorist of the Peronist political party former president Héctor José Cámpora. Although it was established in 2003, it became politically influential after the death and state funeral of Néstor Kirchner. Maximo Kirchner used money that his father Nestor Kirchner left him in his will to further the organization and take part in expropiations of private property, the oil company YPF, which Argentina expropiated (stole) from the government of Spain, and Aerolineas Argentinas also expropiated (stolen) from the government of Spain.
The airline is going to be renamed "Aerocamporas Argentinas" by the end of the year. They have already begun to repaint the logo on the airplanes at a cost of $400,000 US dollars each. La Campora hopes to imitate the terrorist organization to which Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner belonged to when she was younger, called Montoneros. Montoneros was responsable for kidnappings, murders, armed robberies of business owners and members of the opposition government in Argentina during the 1970s. The group vindicates the actions of the guerilla group Montoneros, and thus was named after Héctor José Cámpora, who had favored them. However, most members are too young to know first-hand about the 1970 conflicts in Argentina, but follow their methodologies of state sponsored terrorism. They go into schools and "indoctrinate" children and make them wear La Campora t-shirts, give them reading material and force them to participate in rallies promoting their demagoguery and any decisions made by Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner. The methodology of the modern group is very similar to the Montoneros, aiming to harass, destroy and silence critics of the Kirchner administration and promote their allies in blogs, Facebook, Twitter and other social networks on the internet and to steadily encroach on key positions in the state. After the death of Néstor Kirchner, Cristina Fernández instructed that the lists of candidates for provincial legislators included at least five members of the Cámpora.
VATAYON MILITANTE - The Argentine government under Cristina Fernandez de Kircher and The Argentine National penitentiary service, takes inmates out of jail without judicial permission, to attend and participate in political events of Kirchner. The prisoners are paid an "allowance" of $2700 per month for joining this political group. The creation of this Vatayon militante group which are CONVICTED AND INCARCERATED for everything from murderer to armed robbery is becoming the Kirchner government's militant force of the future. If things get rough for Cristina, these prisoners have nothing to lose for defending the Kirchner movement with violence. They also have access to guns and drugs, and prostitues all courtesy of the Kirchner government. The prisoners who are chosen attend these events, is left up to the to the head of the Argentine National Penitentiary Service, Victor Hortel who is a very close ally of Cristina's government He is a former prisoner himself and has very close ties with prison gangs, and has been known to release prisoners at night to go out to steal and even kill, in exchange for drugs, sex and money. Rewarding criminals and prisoners for political purposes, violating all sorts of rules and laws, is proof of the form of government that Argentina is living with and will only get worse in the months and years ahead, especially if Cristina moved forward with her proposal to change the Argentine constitution to allow for her re-re-election for an unlimited amount of presidential terms."
http://www.economist.com/blogs/americasview/2012/10/argentine-politics
Seshmeister
03-07-2013, 12:11 PM
But the divide between rich and poor in Argentina and Venezuela is so extreme can a bit of socialism not help make them more egalitarian? It has to be better than those US backed dictators of the 70s and 80s?
I remember in Buenos Aires 8 years ago watching people scrabbling about picking up bits of cardboard from garbage bins to sell as I was on my way to sip champagne and eat your amazing steaks at a polo club.
It was disturbing to me, I'm guessing things aren't much better now?
Unchainme
03-07-2013, 02:45 PM
And they manage to provide this despite an appalling blockade from the US.
I still have a theory that the reasoning behind the blockade is because the US knows that Castro is behind the JFK assassination in some way, shape or form. Perhaps it's some unwritten rule that until Castro dies the country isn't getting any help from us.
PETE'S BROTHER
03-07-2013, 02:54 PM
I still have a theory that the reasoning behind the blockade is because the US knows that Castro is behind the JFK assassination in some way, shape or form. Perhaps it's some unwritten rule that until Castro dies the country isn't getting any help from us.
:headlights:
Seshmeister
03-07-2013, 02:58 PM
Even if that were true which seems very unlikely, it's a matter of public record the US tried repeatedly to assassinate Castro so 11 million people get punished for 50 years because 1 guy acts in self defence?
Nitro Express
03-07-2013, 03:01 PM
Even if that were true which seems very unlikely, it's a matter of public record the US tried repeatedly to assassinate Castro so 11 million people get punished for 50 years because 1 guy acts in self defence?
It's silly we still embargo Cuba but trade with China and Vietnam. Go figure. One thing for sure, when Cuba opens up Americans are going to run there in droves with cash to buy up all the classic cars they have maintained over all those years.
Nitro Express
03-07-2013, 03:06 PM
It's not my healthcare system. Not the one I wanted at all. Or voted for, for that matter.
What? You didn't want to be cut down to part time hours and lose your insurance benefits and then have to pay a tax for not having them? Of course the end run is to either bankrupt all the insurance companies or just bankrupt the ones who aren't politically connected. People are going to suffer more and it's just made a bad situation worse. Oh, and they are stealing from Medicare as well. A lot of people don't seem to notice that one. Whenever legislation is passed over a holiday and they hide what's in it the result is never good. People need to get a clue.
katina
03-07-2013, 03:12 PM
But the divide between rich and poor in Argentina and Venezuela is so extreme can a bit of socialism not help make them more egalitarian? It has to be better than those US backed dictators of the 70s and 80s?
I remember in Buenos Aires 8 years ago watching people scrabbling about picking up bits of cardboard from garbage bins to sell as I was on my way to sip champagne and eat your amazing steaks at a polo club.
It was disturbing to me, I'm guessing things aren't much better now?
I understand that you found disturbing watching people picking from garbage in your visit here, I feel sorry and ashamed.
Let me clarify that we never had much poverty and a very extensive middle class population, which this goverment is trying to erase creating more poverty.
This is a very large and a very rich country, with free public education, including University and free public health system for all citizens, including transplants , there shouldn´t be poverty here.
The situation is worser now, the problem Argentina has is corruption, (from the time of the Spanish Viceroyalty), and as a result an incredible institutional weakness, and this government has destroyed all institutions and without them, it´s impossible to combat corruption.
This goverment it´s the worst we had in our history and we are very pessimistic.
Nickdfresh
03-07-2013, 03:15 PM
I still have a theory that the reasoning behind the blockade is because the US knows that Castro is behind the JFK assassination in some way, shape or form. Perhaps it's some unwritten rule that until Castro dies the country isn't getting any help from us.
Um no. It's the powerful Cuban-American lobby of transplants that fled the Revolution in Florida...
Va Beach VH Fan
03-07-2013, 10:56 PM
Looks like they're gonna embalm and display him, like they do with Lenin, Mao and Marcos....
Um no. It's the powerful Cuban-American lobby of transplants that fled the Revolution in Florida...
Or rather the guys who pull the strings of that crowd and keep them agitated (BCE/CIA)
Looks like they're gonna embalm and display him, like they do with Lenin, Mao and Marcos....
Must have one Hell of a talented make-up artist on staff then. After a two year fight with cancer, I'd imagine he probably looks like shit.
I don't think I'd want my body on display in a glass/plexiglass/whatever see through coffin in that state. (Not that I would want it on display at all, really)
Nitro Express
03-07-2013, 11:22 PM
I remember being in Caracas around 1975. The government built all of these high rise apartments for people to live in but people refused to live in them. You had shanty towns all up in the hills above the city. People were living in shacks made of plywood and corrugated roofing tin and anything else they could find.
We went to this glass blowing place where they made stuff out of glass. Real beautiful stuff. I actually still have some glass bowls we got there way back when.
One funny thing I've heard about the current Caracas is they have sex hotels with parking garages. People want to visit a house of ill repute but they don't want to have their car seen outside. So these whore houses have their own parking garages. I guess they quite a few of those places.
Nitro Express
03-07-2013, 11:26 PM
Must have one Hell of a talented make-up artist on staff then. After a two year fight with cancer, I'd imagine he probably looks like shit.
I don't think I'd want my body on display in a glass/plexiglass/whatever see through coffin in that state. (Not that I would want it on display at all, really)
I've seen both Lennin and Mao. Actually I've seen Lennin twice. I thought he looked better in the Soviet days. Maybe they were maintaining the corpse better then. Mao looked pretty rough. Very strange. It's almost like taxidermy.
katina
03-08-2013, 08:27 PM
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko are travelling to Caracas to attend the funeral of late Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, state television reported.
President Lukashenko decided to personally pay tribute to his late Venezuelan ally, "taking into consideration the especially friendly character and strategic level of the Belarusian-Venezuelan relations", the President's spokesman said.
"Hugo Chavez had no closer and friendlier relations with any other heads of foreign states than that which he had with the Belarusian president," he said.
Lukashenko, once labelled Europe's last dictator by the US, ordered three days of mourning for the late Venezuelan leader, describing him as a "close and reliable friend" and "brother".
Ahmadinejad, who also referred to Chavez as a "brother", also took off for Caracas to attend the funeral of his closest ally in Latin America.
Since taking office in 2005, Ahmadinejad has visited Venezuela six times.
The Iranian leader called Chavez "a dear friend of Iran" and "symbol of all the brave fighters and revolutionaries of Latin America".
Russia is sending Igor Sechin, President Vladimir Putin's special representative and former deputy prime minister, to Chavez's funeral.
Sechin, president of the Rosneft oil company and chairman of the board at the Rosneftegaz company, has been closely involved in Russian-Venezuelan relations.
Russian senate speaker Valentina Matviyenko, who topped a list of the 100 most influential women in Russia recently, also said she will travel to Venezuela to attend the ceremony.
Chavez, 58, who had ruled the country for 14 years, died after battling cancer for two years.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/hugo-chavez-funeral-ahmadinejad-lukashenko-to-pay-tributes/1/256960.html
clarathecarrot
03-08-2013, 10:29 PM
Thank You, for your answer to my earlier questions, Katina.
They were informative and I see it is complicated, in South America as much as here in the USA.
Computers can be used for lots of dum silly stuff, but I do believe they have united the world in a possitive way (internet communication) more people want less bull%^&t in the world, than the ones who want to increase troubles, so in the long run things will get better.
Peace.
Seshmeister
03-09-2013, 07:25 AM
I understand that you found disturbing watching people picking from garbage in your visit here, I feel sorry and ashamed.
Let me clarify that we never had much poverty and a very extensive middle class population, which this goverment is trying to erase creating more poverty.
This is a very large and a very rich country, with free public education, including University and free public health system for all citizens, including transplants , there shouldn´t be poverty here.
The situation is worser now, the problem Argentina has is corruption, (from the time of the Spanish Viceroyalty), and as a result an incredible institutional weakness, and this government has destroyed all institutions and without them, it´s impossible to combat corruption.
This goverment it´s the worst we had in our history and we are very pessimistic.
I'm sorry to hear that.
I was only there for a week but I really loved the place and met some nice people. I was there for a big conference and a few people were robbed and attacked but i think that was Americans being naive abroad.
I felt comfortable enough walking about late at night. Apart from the hotels things were really cheap too which must have been to do with the exchange rates. I gave 50% tips everywhere I went, was out every night and spent about $200 for the week.
If I lived in the US I would visit a lot.
Nickdfresh
03-11-2013, 08:30 AM
Hugo in the wind....
Va Beach VH Fan
03-11-2013, 04:38 PM
Apparently NBC has pulled the skit, probably because of the politics involved....
You can watch it here, but you'd better hurry....
http://dailypicksandflicks.com/2013/03/10/snl-justin-timberlake-as-elton-john-serenades-hugo-chavez-video/
ELVIS
03-11-2013, 05:39 PM
Politics involved in a Timberlake spoof ??
Nickdfresh
03-11-2013, 05:40 PM
Interesting. Some still hold him up as heroic, but if you look at a lot of his beliefs he sounds like he was a dumb hick...
PETE'S BROTHER
03-11-2013, 05:43 PM
Interesting. Some still hold him up as heroic, but if you look at a lot of his beliefs he sounds like he was a dumb hick...
timberlake? or hugo?
ooohhhh, both right? :baaa:
Va Beach VH Fan
03-11-2013, 06:12 PM
I could care less about his music, but I think Timberlake is a really talented entertainer, including acting....
He could easily be a SNL regular with those stiffs....
ELVIS
03-11-2013, 07:33 PM
I agree, Timberlake is funny...
The current SNL cast brings him down...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Pw2T7TEWg
katina
03-15-2013, 05:15 PM
Apparently NBC has pulled the skit, probably because of the politics involved....
You can watch it here, but you'd better hurry....
http://dailypicksandflicks.com/2013/03/10/snl-justin-timberlake-as-elton-john-serenades-hugo-chavez-video/
Thank you for making me laugh :)
Here, there are many posters supporting him on the streets...and after knowing that a street will be renamed, and a new neighbourhood will have Chavez name , I really needed to laugh.
katina
03-15-2013, 05:20 PM
Looks like they're gonna embalm and display him, like they do with Lenin, Mao and Marcos....
It seems that is not possible to embalm Chávez´s body.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/03/13/venezuela-acting-leader-says-embalming-unlikely-for-chavez-as-body-not-prepared/
" Venezuela's acting president says it is highly unlikely that Hugo Chavez will be embalmed for permanent viewing because the body was not properly prepared on time.
Nicolas Maduro said Wednesday during a speech at a government-run book fair that Russian experts consulted on the decision to embalm Chavez told officials it is probably not possible. He did not offer a further explanation.
Authorities say Chavez died on March 5.
The government announced two days later that he would be embalmed and placed on permanent display, like Vladimir Lenin, Ho Chi Minh and Mao Zedong."
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