Cleveland Sports Chatter

[POJO_Risin]

Hmmm...

1. I keep forgetting the Yanks cut him...

2. The Indians haven't announced this yet...

3. He's a month away from playing...

4. where the fuck is he going to play? Belliard is hotter than hell...and Blake is solid...

Hmmm...maybe another deal is in the works...

[Snoo]

He has to pass his physical. He can play 2nd and short, and they'll probably play him at short next year since there's no way they're keeping Vizquel.

[POJO_Risin]

That depends on Brandon Phillips though...if he's finally ready...he'll get the job there...

I see the Indians potentially thinking of dealing Vizquel before the deadline...since Boone will be ready by then...

don't forget...Boone can play 3B as well...

[Snoo]

Yeah I know he plays third, I just said that since they have Blake. The Dodgers might want Vizquel, since he has a decent average.

[POJO_Risin]

Yeah...and I don't see Belliard lasting at second...although I could be wrong...

He gives them good insurance...

[alexpgrimes]

This makes no sense to me. The indians need a closing pitcher. I guess we'll just wait and see.

[POJO_Risin]

They need more than just a closer....they need a whole new relief corp...

Wickman's on his way back...

and Riske has been downright awesome the past month and a half...

Jiminez is a fucking bum...and Bettancourt is a waste...

They do need to go out and grab some relievers...perhaps Vizquel will be used as some bait...or even Boone before the break...

With a relieving corp...Cleveland would be in first place...

unfortunate...

[twonabomber]

Wahoo says, "more bats good."

press conference scheduled for 4 pm.

[POJO_Risin]

Yeah Twona...hey man..you heard anything about what their plans are for him? Is he going to be roaving between 2nd, 3rd and short?...or are the planning on dealing him and/or Vizquel at some point...

you'd have to think that Belliard is a sell high candidate...

[twonabomber]

Shapiro didn't say a whole lot last night on the news...this was in the PD today:

The Indians are expected to sign free-agent third baseman Aaron Boone today to a one-year deal for 2005 that could extend into 2006. A 4 p.m. press conference has been called to announce the signing.

The deal is contingent on Boone passing a physical Friday. He has not played this year because of a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee. The ACL is the main stabilizing ligament within the center of the knee joint.

If Boone signs, it's unknown when he'll be able to play. After meeting Boone earlier this month in California, General Manager Mark Shapiro said Boone wouldn't be able to play until the last two weeks of the season.

Another timetable has Boone starting play between Aug. 15 and Sept. 15.

When Shapiro met with Boone on June 3, Boone told him he considered the Indi ans a "team on the come."

The Indians are 35-37 and six games out of first place in the AL Central.

Another selling point for Boone, 31, was that the Indians told him they didn't care if he played this year or not. Big-market teams such as Los Angeles, Anaheim and Boston were interested in Boone for this year.

"We have legitimate and serious interest in Aaron Boone," said Shapiro. "We are in the middle of negotiations, and they are progressing."

Shapiro would say little else. The organization is still spooked by December's near trade of Omar Vizquel to Seattle.

The Mariners backed out of the deal because Vizquel's surgically repaired right knee didn't pass their physical.

Boone, whose home run in Game 7 of the American League Championship Series put the Yankees in the World Series last year, was scheduled to make $5.75 million this year. However, he injured his knee playing basketball in the off-season and the Yankees voided his contract.

They paid Boone nearly $1 million in termination pay and made him a free agent. Then, the Yankees filled the hole at third base with Alex Rodriguez.

Boone will make a smaller base salary next year, but incentives would give him a chance to approach his Yankees salary from last year.

If Boone signs, the next biggest question will be where he plays. Boone played third, shortstop and second in parts of seven seasons with Cincinnati. When the Reds traded him to the Yankees on July 31, he played 54 games at third.

"We want to be as versatile as we can be," said manager Eric Wedge. "We've been pretty consistent with that all along."

Wedge believes third baseman Casey Blake and second baseman Ronnie Belliard have the ability to play all over the infield. The Indians feel Boone could easily fit into that rotation.

If he settled at third, Blake could move to first or second.

"Eric talked to me about it," said Blake. "They had a window of opportunity to sign a good baseball player. He's a good person and a good player and can make this team better."

Blake has been the Indians' third baseman for the last two years. Boone could change that.

"If I keep doing what I'm doing, I've got nothing to worry about," said Blake.

Boone, a .270 lifetime hitter, bats right-handed, which is another reason the Indians like him. They need help against left-handers.

He hit .267 (158-for-592) with 32 doubles, 24 homers, 23 steals and 96 RBI with the Reds and Yankees last year. The year before, he hit .241 with 26 homers and 87 RBI.

Boone is a third generation big-leaguer, and the fourth Boone to reach the big leagues. Boone's grandfather, Ray, was an infielder with the Indians from 1948 through 1953.




we'll see what ol' Lebowitz has to say tomorrow.

[twonabomber]

and the Tribe beat writer from the News Herald checks in with this...

If you're having a hard time figuring out where Aaron Boone fits, consider this:

In the Indians' starting lineup Friday night, their first baseman batted ninth.

Ninth!

First base is considered an offensive position. On most good teams, the first baseman bats in the middle of the lineup. Third, fourth, or fifth. Colorado's first baseman, Todd Helton, bats third. Jim Thome bats fourth. Jason Giambi bats fourth. Albert Pujols bats third. Jeff Bagwell bats fifth. Rafael Palmeiro bats fourth. Mike Sweeney bats fourth. Sean Casey bats third. Mike Piazza bats third. Richie Sexson, when healthy, bats fourth.

Friday night, the Indians' first baseman, Ben Broussard, batted ninth.

Ninth!

Enter Aaron Boone.

Assuming he passes his physical - and as we found out in the aborted Omar Vizquel trade last winter, that is not an assumption that should be cavalierly made - Boone fits, indirectly, at first base.

Which is bad news for the Indians' No. 9 hitter Friday night.

Prior to Friday's game, Indians General Manager Mark Shapiro refused to answer any questions on what appears to be the impending acquisition of Boone, who was in Cleveland Friday for a physical.

That physical takes on added significance, given the fact Boone blew out his knee playing basketball in February, forfeiting a $5.75 million contract he signed with the Yankees and making him a free agent.

The injury required surgery to repair the anterior cruciate ligament in Boone's knee. That is major surgery. So major that there is some question as to how much help Boone will be to the Indians this season, which is why, presumably, the two parties have agreed on a two-year deal. It's a signing as much for next year as this year.

Shapiro was playing it coy Friday.

"The only thing I'm going to say about Aaron Boone," said Shapiro, only, "is that we have a legitimate interest in him. We're in the midst of negotiations, but a deal is not done."

When the deal is done, so is Broussard.

Not immediately, but eventually.

It's not hard to connect the dots on this one. Boone's best position is third base. The Indians' current third baseman is overlooked and under-appreciated Casey Blake, who at his current pace will finish this season with numbers similar to the .287 average, 24 home runs and 96 RBI Boone had for the Reds and Yankees last season.

Last year, in addition to being the Indians' starting third baseman, Blake was the Indians' backup first baseman. Once Boone arrives, and is healthy enough to play, the plan, presumably, will be to play Boone at third base and move Blake to first.

And neither one will likely bat ninth.

Where does that leave Broussard, who has been lapped by Travis Hafner in their competition this year?

Let's just say he will become available. Very available.

Because the Indians' true first baseman of the future isn't Hafner or Blake. It's hitting machine Michael Aubrey, who is doing a good Victor Martinez impression in the Tribe's minor-league system, getting two hits a night, first at Kinston, now at Akron.

Boone may not be ready to play until late in the season. But his pursuance by, and apparent acceptance of the Indians as a free-agent landing pad is significant not just artistically, but cosmetically and symbolically.

A Boone/Broussard exchange in the lineup is a definite upgrade. In addition to those solid numbers last year, in 2002, Boone hit 26 home runs with 87 RBI while stealing 32 bases for the Reds.

Boone could be a fixture at third for the next few years, given that former phenom Corey Smith is stuck in the mud at Akron, and there are no other apparent third-base candidates on the horizon for the big-league club.

Beyond that, the signing of Boone, assuming it takes place, will be the first tangible evidence that Indians ownership is willing to start writing checks to finance roster upgrades, as the team proves it can be a contender.

The importance of that cannot be understated. There has been considerable skepticism among fans and the media over whether the Dolan family would live up to its promise to start spending when the team got good again.

Well, the team is getting good again - maybe a little bit faster, and a little bit better, than anyone expected. And this would be a case of ownership proving that it will indeed spend again.

Signing Boone is hardly a stop-the-presses thunderbolt. But it is a signing that should improve the club's chances of contending.

It's also a significant signing in that the Indians are now back on the radar screen for free agents looking for places to play. Few established upper-tier players want to sign on for a rebuilding project, just as few teams being rebuilt are willing to pursue upper-tier players.

The Indians have clearly passed the "almost there" signpost on their rebuilding journey. They know it, and apparently so do players around the league. The Boone signing validates that on both fronts.

Boone is also a high character guy, and a right-handed bat, who should help the Indians in another area of need: hitting left-handed pitchers.

Why last year, for example, Boone, against left-handed pitchers, batted a lusty ... uh, 216.

Maybe he will bat ninth against them.

[POJO_Risin]

Hmmm...that's the first call that Boone was thinking of not playing at all this year...

Well...it's good to see Shapiro looking ahead...

Boone is the kind of vet that a team like this needs...

what the fuck is going on with Brandon Phillips...he's disappeared off the fucking radar...

That Colon deal is really looking like a bust...

what did the Indians get for Bradley...

[twonabomber]

normally i hate that guy's columns but he made some good points in there today.

[POJO_Risin]

Man...Riske has been off the charts...

past month...1.06 ERA...25 K's in 17 innings...

He oughta be closing soon...what up with Wickman?

[twonabomber]

the "player to be named" in the Bradley trade was Andrew Brown. i think he's in the minors.

[twonabomber]

i think i read Wickman pitched in the minors the other day. maybe it was a simulated game, i don't remember. he's on his way back.

[twonabomber]

clipped from the Tribe's site:

Wickman has made two rehab appearances as he tries to rebound from the right elbow strain he suffered during a Spring Training intrasquad game.

In those two outings, he has pitched a total of 1 1/3 innings, compiling a 43.50 ERA. He has faced 10 batters, allowing three hits and three walks while striking out three. He has given up six earned runs.

Those stats certainly aren't encouraging. But Indians general manager Mark Shapiro is focusing on the positives of the two outings.

"The most encouraging things about the outings is that he sustained his stuff," Shapiro said. "(He had an) 89-92 (mph fastball), good sinker, good depth to his slider. Just as encouraging is he felt good during the outings and the next day."

No news on the pain front is good news for Wickman and the Indians. Before beginning his rehab stint, Wickman told reporters any pain he feels at the end of this season would most likely cause him to retire.

But how close is Wickman to making his return to the Majors? That remains a mystery.

"He still needs time," Shapiro said. "How much time? I'm not sure. We're looking for two things. One, for Wicky to tell us he's fine and ready to go. And two, for us to agree with him. I'm not going to forecast when that is."

But the Indians are definitely hoping it's soon.

[POJO_Risin]

LMFAO...that was a fantastic article...

So...am I to assume then that Cleveland is ready to put Phillips at short next year?

[twonabomber]

the other guy from the Dodgers was Frankin Gutierrez. he's in Buffalo.

[twonabomber]

Phillips at short sounds right. Vizquel is starting to look like the guy thats stayed too long. he bruised his finger the other day while trying to make a barehanded catch...which he could do in his sleep five years ago.

[POJO_Risin]

Alright...so they shouldn't count on Wickman...

but Broussard sure as fuck isn't going to bring in anything...

I know Boone has played some first base as well...

I like the Tribe infield's ability to maneuvre...and it's funny...

it looks like the Tribe is expecting Belliard to continue at second...

I see him becoming their utility guy at some point...would be nice if he could stick around...and keep up the pace...

[POJO_Risin]

I guess Peralta is probably going to get the gig at Short...that must mean the Phillips will be playing second at some point...

Hmmm...maybe trade bait...

[POJO_Risin]

Yo...twona...Give me my tribe fix...what was in Sunday's Herald and Plain Dealer?

[POJO_Risin]

By the way...I'm going to change this thread to Indians Chatter...and bro...you've gotta stop by with anything interesting you hear on the street...

LMFAO...my wife and I have been talking about coming home for years...like the weather down here and all...but I was telling my wife I'd move home strictly to have REAL sports again...

fucking braves country down here...drives me mad...stupid rednecks...

[twonabomber]

i just got back from the store w/the papers...check back in a few.

[POJO_Risin]

It's about damn time...lmfao...

I hear CC's MRI looks Identical to the one in April that put him out for a week...

heading to alabama so a specialist can check it out...

[twonabomber]

here's C.C....


CLEVELAND (AP) -- C.C. Sabathia will be examined by two more doctors after making only eight pitches for the Cleveland Indians on Saturday night because of a sore left shoulder.

Indians trainer Lonnie Soloff said the left-hander will see team physician Dr. Mark Schickendantz on Sunday afternoon and go to Birmingham, Ala., on Monday for an examination by noted sports orthopedic doctor James Andrews.

"C.C. feels a lot better today, but we want to make sure our course of action is correct in this," Soloff said before Sunday's game against the Colorado Rockies.

Soloff said an MRI taken Saturday night, "was consistent with the MRI we had on C.C. on April 22."

Sabathia was scratched from a start against Kansas City at that time and was diagnosed with an irritated left biceps tendon in the front of his shoulder. He was sidelined until May 1, but Soloff said he did not know if Sabathia will miss his next start, scheduled for Thursday in Detroit.

Sabathia, who played catch in the outfield before the game, seemed unsure as well.

"Ask Lonnie, because he can tell you better than me what is going on," Sabathia said.

The 6-foot-7, 300-pound Sabathia retired the Rockies on eight pitches -- six for strikes -- then went to the dugout holding his left shoulder and moving his arm in a circular motion.

"C.C. caught his foot on the mound on a pitch and it put his arm a little bit behind his body on a pitch," Soloff said. "He felt a pinch in his shoulder.

"He generates a lot of momentum and an athlete as strong as C.C. is a bigger risk when his arm is back like that."

In his previous start Monday, Sabathia allowed one run and five hits over eight innings in a 5-1 victory over the Chicago White Sox, just hours after attending the funeral of a close cousin.

[POJO_Risin]

Well...that sounds a bit more promising than the other reports that I've heard...


What's this shit I've been hearing about Jacobs potentially repurchasing the Indians?

Would seem to make sense...now that the payroll is low...and potential high to raise the gate a bit...

is this true...or just wishful thinking among the rumor mongers...

[twonabomber]

Lebowitz on Boone:

When it became the buzz around the Indians' clubhouse Friday that infielder Aaron Boone was about to be signed, you could sense the apprehension among several players. Boone had been chiefly a third baseman. What happens to Casey Blake? Will he be moved to first? If so, his pal, Ben Broussard, would be gone. If Boone or Blake played second, what happens to Ronnie Belliard? At Class AAA Buffalo, I'm told infielders Jhonny Peralta and Brandon Phillips wondered if Boone's signing would keep them back in the minors another year. Manager Eric Wedge immediately collared Blake and told him, "You're our guy. This deal gives us plenty of options, but there will be plenty of bats to go around." GM Mark Shapiro also talked with Blake on Saturday to assure him his spot on the roster is not in jeopardy. Then Wedge and Shapiro spoke with Belliard to assure him he still is their second baseman this season.

It's likely Boone, who will continue to get in condition in Arizona and then will spend some time in the minors, won't be with the Indians until September.

I know the Boone family, starting with grandpa Ray, who played for the Indians, and they're super folks. Aaron is all class. One reason the Indians signed him was because of the professionalism he'll bring to the clubhouse.

Still, i didn't like what i saw of his playing ability with the Yankees late last season. That and his injury would have kept me from giving him $2.5 million for next season and about $4.5 million if he plays regularly.

The Indians have multiple scouting reports on Boone from his games with Cincinnati last season and rate him attractive. His on-base averageis high (we walks a lot), he bats right-handed, a Tribe need, and no young talent had to be given up.

[twonabomber]

i haven't heard anything about Jacobs buying the team again. i'm still waiting for them to fire Wedge and bring Hargrove back as manager.

[POJO_Risin]

Oh jesus christ...you don't think they brought back Hargrove with that thought in mind do you? Wedge seems to be doing a great job this year...

how's he handling his pitchers?

[twonabomber]

more Lebowitz-On the way out?

Part of the reasoning behind the signing of Boone was the Indians didn't think they could keep Belliard next season. He's subject to arbitration, and based on this season's performance, an arbitrator would give him at least $4 million. The Indians could sign him now, offering a sizable raise and avoid arbitration, but he would want a long-tern contract - at least three years - and the Indians don't want to commit to that.

So figure on both Belliard and Omar Vizquel being gone next season. Vizquel says he wants to play a few more years. The only way the Indians would keep him next season is if, liking Cleveland so much, Vizquel says, "I'll sign for $1 million."

Shapiro told the Cleveland City Club last week that after Omar's playing days are over and he wants to stay in baseball in some capacity, "We'll almost certainly welcome him back, just as we've done with Charles Nagy."

Both Peralta and Phillps are having solid seasons in Buffalo and both can play short and second.

[twonabomber]

as soon as they rehired Grover, i thought it was just in case of a Wedge collapse. of course, i thought the same thing when they rehired Buddy Bell a couple years ago. Dolan always says he's a fan of the team and its history...i could see him bringing Hargrove back.

i don't get to watch many games because of my new schedule, but i don't read much negative stuff regarding Wedge and the pitchers. the 'pen was screwing up, it wasn't so much Wedge going to relief at the wrong time.

[POJO_Risin]

Man...the Tribe is just fucking chalk full of talent...

they could play these extra players into something big over the next few years...

and it seems like they are making all the right moves thusfar...

[POJO_Risin]

yeah...I did think that Bell was brought in for 2 reasons...to help "season" wedge...and to then take his slot if/when he blew up...

as it stands now...I can't see anything happening to Wedge...unless they fold it up the next three months...

[twonabomber]

more Lebowitz...

I had heard the Indians have Richie Sexson on their radar screen for next year as their first baseman. He's going to be a free agent. Does the acquisition of Boone knock that out, since Blake might move there? "Not at all," I was told by a Tribe exec. "Blake can be our utility infielder (which would end John McDonald's days here) or our second baseman. Although Richie (now with the Diamondbacks) hasn't played much this season and now is through for the year because of an injury, he proably expects to get a contract over $10 million, and much as we like him, that would be too big a risk after his injury."

The Indians do expect to have about $15 million to spend on free agents next year because, for the first time, they'll be on the recieving end of the luxury tax and they'll be without the contracts of Vizquel and Bob Wickman.

Incidentally, you may remember the Tribe once had Sexson before then-GM John Hart traded him to get Wickman.

[twonabomber]

thats the thing. if they keep adding talent, and Wedge doesn't screw it up, they're all gonna look like geniuses.

[twonabomber]

some chatter from the PD...

Clubhouse confidential: New Tribe third baseman Aaron Boone said he's been watching a lot of Indians games on TV recently. He must be.

When he entered the interview room at Jacobs Field Saturday, he spotted Fox Sports Net Ohio's Andy Baskin.

"There's Andy Baskin," Boone said.

Baskin was impressed. "What a big day for me," he said.

More Boone: During batting practice, Boone walked around introducing himself to his new teammates. He was wearing an Indians cap, an Indians jersey and dress slacks.

As the team exited the field, outfielder Jody Gerut smiled and said, "Someone tell Boone he can take his Indians cap off. We all know he signed."

Stat of the day: Boone's first big-league home run was hit off the Chicago Cubs' Kerry Wood in August 1998.

[twonabomber]

For Boone, choice was easy
Free-agent infielder likes direction Indians are headed

Sunday, June 27, 2004
Dennis Manoloff
Plain Dealer Reporter

A two-hour lunch was enough to convince Aaron Boone to leave his comfort zone in the West for Cleveland. Whatever Indians General Manager Mark Shapiro and manager Eric Wedge told Boone on June 3 in Southern California, they need to memorize it for use on future free agents.

"When I got into the car after meeting with those guys, I said, I want to be an Indian,' " Boone said.

"Aaron was fired up," said Adam Katz, his agent. "From that point, we really concentrated on Cleveland."

Less than four weeks later, they made it happen. The signing of third baseman Boone to a two-year contract, with a vesting provision on a club option for 2006, officially was announced Saturday at a news conference at Jacobs Field. The deal, in the hopper for several days, was contingent on Boone passing a physical Friday.

Boone, 31, has not played this season as he recovers from surgery to repair a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee, an injury that occurred in January during a pickup basketball game. Boone also suffered a torn ACL in the left knee in 2000.

Boone is a career .270 hitter with 92 home runs and 393 RBI in parts of seven major-league seasons. All but 54 of his 722 games in the majors have been with the Cincinnati Reds, who traded him to the Yankees on July 31, 2003. On Oct. 15, his homer off Boston's Tim Wakefield in the 11th inning of Game 7 of the American League Championship Series made him a household name in Gotham.

A source familiar with the Indians negotiations said Boone will earn about $350,000 this year as his prorated salary. The source said Boone could earn an estimated $5 million in 2005, with the money evenly split between base salary and incentives. The 2006 portion of the contract, potentially worth $5.5 million, would be guaranteed if Boone reaches a plate-appearance incentive next season. The 2006 breakdown is for about $4.125 million base, $1.375 million incentive.

Boone had been scheduled to earn $5.75 million with the Yankees this season, but management voided the contract because of a provision that prohibited basketball games as an off-field activity. The Yankees paid him nearly $1 million in termination pay and made him a free agent.

"I would have liked to stay out West, maybe in the National League," said Boone, a California native who lives in Phoenix, Ariz., "so this is a testament to my belief in what the Indians are doing. There is a lot of young talent on this team."

With the Indians 22-28 at the time of the lunch meeting, Shapiro and Wedge sold Boone on a blueprint that pegged 2005 as the year to contend seriously for the playoffs and beyond. In doing so, they put no pressure on Boone to return this season, whereas big-market clubs such as Los Angeles, Anaheim and Boston had sought immediate dividends.

"Cleveland most impressed us because they really didn't care if Aaron was not ready to play this year," Katz said. "They were simply in the Aaron Boone business. They want him back when he's ready, not just in September."

More than four months removed from surgery, Boone said the rehabilitation process has gone smoothly. He will return to Arizona today to resume the rehab, estimated at another 3-4 weeks. He then will join the Indians and commence spring-training-type work before embarking on a major-league rehab assignment.

A setback-free scenario has Boone playing for the Indians in late August or early September.

"I feel like I'll come out of this in as good a shape as I've ever been," he said. "I'm looking forward to being in a clubhouse again."

Among those who helped convince Boone to come to Cleveland was Reds first baseman Sean Casey, a close friend of the player and Shapiro. Casey has lauded Boone as the quintessential teammate.

Boone is the son of former Reds manager and standout catcher Bob Boone, and the brother of Mariners second baseman Bret. His grandfather, Ray Boone, was an All-Star during his 13-year career, including six with Cleveland (1948-53). According to the Indians media relations staff, the Boones are one of just three three-generation baseball families (Bells, Hairstons).

"Grandpa has the '48 World Series team picture on the wall at his home," Aaron said of the Tribe's most recent world champion. "I think my playing for the Indians is going to be neat and probably a bit nostalgic."

Aaron reported that Ray, who lives in San Diego, has been feeling better after an illness.

[POJO_Risin]

I love the arms in the minors...and still with position players like Phillips, Sizemore, Peralta and Aubrey...they are stil going strong...

finally...keeping some of that talent local...I fear the trade deadline this year...

[twonabomber]

Pojo, you'll like this:

Let go of ghosts past - bring Mesa back to town
Tuesday, June 29, 2004
Bud Shaw, PD Columnist

Wrongful death claims in some states carry a statute of limitations of less than seven years.

What is it for crimes against the Cleveland sports fan?

Hold on. I have the book right here. Let's see. Looks like 77 years. Wait, no. It's 777. It might be time to repeal that law.

There is one move Indians General Manager Mark Shapiro could make to improve the Indians that would be bolder public relationswise than trading Roberto Alomar or Bartolo Colon.

Trade for Jose Mesa.

Sorry, not so he could be placed in a pillory in Public Square. Trade for him so that he can close games the way he is closing games in Pittsburgh, the way games are not being closed here. Regularly.

"If I thought he could help us, I wouldn't hesitate," Shapiro said Monday before leaving to look at players in Buffalo. "Whether or not the history here would [have an impact] on his ability to perform would just be one ingredient in the equation."

What you have to like about Shapiro is that he tackles trouble head on. He hasn't decided anything substantial about any closer who might become available. He wants to see about Bob Wickman first and take a look at Bobby Howry, too.

Wickman has had three rehabilitation outings. Shapiro says his fastball has held steady around 91 mph, but it's still spring training for him.

In another three weeks, more non-contending teams like the 29-43 Pirates will be shopping players. Pittsburgh was 15½ games behind St. Louis before playing the Cardinals on Monday night. Save situations for Mesa have been like trying to find buried treasure.

A scoreless ninth against the Reds on Saturday gave Mesa his 17th consecutive save, a Pirates' record. It left him perfect for the season, despite having reason to be as rusty as an old swing set. It was only his fourth opportunity in Pittsburgh's previous 32 games.

Yes, yes. I know what you're thinking. That's Pittsburgh. Here, he would be haunted by the 1997 World Series and the boos that chased him out of town the following season.

Speak for yourself. You may be haunted by all that, but Mesa is far removed from it. That was long before you saw how queasy David Riske and Jose Jimenez have looked in the role.

If it comes down to that Jose or this Jose, Mesa would have to be carried trembling to the mound in a basket not to qualify as an improvement. He's the Jose who has allowed a run in just four of his 30 appearances.

"If he blew a save here, they'd boo," Shapiro said. "If he got the save, they'd cheer."

The questions for Shapiro are far more pragmatic, as they must be. To trade for any closer, it's all about the cost. Money isn't an issue in Mesa's case. With him, it's what the Indians would have to give up to rent a 38-year-old for a few months.

Acquiring Mesa would demand one obvious adjustment. When an infielder comes to the mound to settle Mesa down, manager Eric Wedge might want to have somebody other than Mesa's archenemy Omar Vizquel do the visitation.

"Players want to win," Shapiro said, not specifically mentioning the Vizquel-Mesa relationship. "If they feel a player can help the team do that, that's what matters."

In a town that cheered John Rocker before he made it painfully clear he couldn't pitch, it should be easy to justify a second chance for Mesa if it comes to that.

There would be no justifiable reason in 2004, certainly, to make Mesa feel like Michael Moore at a Republican fund-raiser.

[POJO_Risin]

Jesus...Mesa back in town...

holy hell...

the scary thing...compared to what we got...I'd probably welcome it...

but you know...it would blow up in their face...and christ...the Pirates always ask for to much...

remember the Rincon for Giles deal? Fuck that...let them keep Mesa...;)

[ALinChainz]

by Fanball Staff - Fanball.com

Thursday, July 8, 2004


News

ESPN's David Aldridge is reporting that free agent forward Carlos Boozer—who reportedly committed verbally to resigning in Cleveland—has reneged on that agreement and signed with the Utah Jazz for $68 million over six years. The Cavs recently relinquished their rights to Boozer for next season, in which they would have paid him the league-minimum $695,000, on the faith that he would not explore free agency. The parties had arranged to compensate Boozer with the full midlevel exception, which would have paid the third-year power forward approximately $40 million over six years. Boozer averaged 15.5 points and 11.7 rebounds per game last season.


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Apparently, Boozer and his agent were blown away by the sums of cash being doled out for middling talent like Adonal Foyle and Rafer Alston and decided they couldn't pass up what amounts to an extra $28 million. Because Boozer is a restricted free agent, Cleveland in theory will have the opportunity to match this offer from Utah, but the full midlevel exception is the best they can do. Boozer had a huge fantasy season in 2003 and certainly emerged as a productive complement to LeBron James. However, his challenge in Utah will be to maintain those numbers despite a deeper team with more offensive weapons. His rebounding totals should hold steady, but we're not optimistic about his scoring potential.

[POJO_Risin]

This is total fucking Bullshit...

stupid for Cleveland for allowing him to go out there like that...

and stupid for the NBA to let middling players like Boozer to sign outlandish deals like this...and their bargaining agreement is up at the end of the next year...

I smell a strike and/or lockout...

fuck them all...

[Lou]

HUGE fucking loss for Cleveland. HUGE. That really sets them a step back no doubt. Bad mistake letting him go, Boozer is one hell of a player.

[POJO_Risin]

Maybe they'll go after Kenyon Martin...who knows what the fuck they'll do...

trashy thing for a player to do to get out of his contract...

and a stupid thing for the Cavs to do...here the guy tells them he'll resign...and bam...what a bitch...

figures...he's from Duke...

here's a report on the matter...dead on...:

remember talking with Boozer in January about his long-term plans. He acknowledged there was a chance he could leave the Cavs in the off-season, but the possibility seemed remote. All the Cavs had to do was pick up the team option it held on Boozer for next season at less than $700,000, then sign Boozer to a long-term deal in 2005. It seemed Boozer would be teamed with guard LeBron James for a long time in Cleveland. "In the future, that is going to be the program for the Cavs," Boozer said. "LeBron is establishing himself as one of the best young guys in the league, and I am trying to do the same thing — establish myself as one of the best young power forwards.:


Essentially, Boozer had to choose which was more important — his word or his bank account. He chose bank account.



Boozer did that with his breakout performance last season. Then, this summer, Boozer and the Cavs explored a different possibility — they could toss out the team option for 2004-05 altogether, make Boozer a restricted free agent, then re-sign him to a six-year deal in the $40 million range. That way, Boozer could start collecting on a big contract earlier, and the Cavs would have one of their rising stars locked up. Boozer, according to a statement from Cavs owner Gordon Gund and general manager Jim Paxson, verbally agreed to this.

So, when the Cavaliers had the opportunity to exercise their one-year, $700,000 option on Boozer's deal early last week, they declined, making Boozer a restricted free agent. That was not a problem, because he had agreed to re-sign with the team.

Until this weekend, that is.

With Boozer a free agent, Denver began to show interest. Utah, sensing an opportunity and sensing pressure to finally spend some of its cap money, came up with the extremely generous offer of just under $70 million. Boozer had made a verbal commitment to the Cavs, but the Jazz were bettering Cleveland's offer by almost $30 million. Essentially, Boozer had to choose which was more important — his word or his bank account. He chose bank account.

To be fair, the Cavs would have gotten a bargain by signing Boozer for $40 million, and Boozer did nothing wrong by NBA rules. He got the most money he could, which is something most employees would do. But the fact is, he lied to the Cavs, the team that gave him a shot in the second round of the draft, the team that inserted him in the starting lineup and allowed him to shine, the team that was trying to do the right thing by him. Boozer and his agent, Rob Pelinka, double-crossed the Cavs by getting them to allow him out of his contract, then bolting for bigger money when the Cavs could have had him another year for minimum-contract money.

Paxson bungled this, and could get fired. But he shouldn't, not for this (there may be other reasons to fire Paxson, but that's another column). As far as Boozer goes, Paxson's only fault was that he trusted a guy who turned out to be a liar. According to the statement, Gund seemed to trust Boozer as much as Paxson did — if the owner was gullible enough to be duped by Boozer, then he probably won't fire his GM because he was duped, too. "Our actions," the joint statement read, "have been based on what Carlos told us he wanted."

But, if the Cavaliers are to be believed, Carlos is a liar, which is what makes this a really crummy story. The Cavaliers look bad for flubbing the situation. Pelinka and Boozer — Benedict Boozer, as folks in Cleveland will come to know him — come out with an air of scum around them. And fans … well, I would not blame fans for being a little less enthusiastic about the NBA next year because of this.

The Jazz, of course, are the only entity to come out of all this with its reputation intact, having landed a top-notch power forward, adding to a huge off-season for the team. It now has Boozer to go with its frontcourt of center Mehmet Okur (assuming Detroit allows him to leave) and forward Andrei Kirilenko. Utah, which drafted Kris Humphries and Kirk Snyder, could now look to deal Matt Harpring.

For Utah, then, this is good. For everyone else, this is just bad.



fuckin' piece of shit...

[POJO_Risin]

People wonder why the NBA is looked at as a classless establishment...this is fucking why...

The Cavs are fucking morons for taking any of these scumbags at their word...

shame on them...

The NBA can goto hell...

[ALinChainz]

I hear what you're saying. We wouldn't be able to keep Okur and sign Rasheed to what he's going to want.

But what DO you say what is almost an extra $30 million?

Cavs need to step up the offer now if they want to keep him, and who knows what you pay whoever they think can replace him?

[POJO_Risin]

They can't afford it without dumping players to keep him...

fuck him dude...he's a piece of shit...

it's a step back...but pretty soon...players will be clangin' to play in Cleveland...if they keep LeBron...

fuckin' douchebag...what a piece of shit...

have him wrapped up at 700 G's...

tell him, "Okay douchebag...we can get you more money a year earlier...if you agree to sign with us. We'll let you out of your contract this year, and sign you to a 40 million dollar deal..."

The guy says yes...then doesn an interview on the first saying he won't go anywhere but Cleveland no matter what they offer...

lmfao...

you can't trust anyone...

fuck him...

[POJO_Risin]

I hope Utah fucking rots...

[ALinChainz]

Putting together a good team out there, albeit slowly.

lol ... but they can rot. No problem with that.

Like the article said though, Foyle and Alston getting deals like they've gotten, Boozer would have to at least listen, take advantage of the current free agent system.

I agree with you, I think there will be labor strife and the league is going to want to look at an age limit, similar to the NFL.

[POJO_Risin]

Well...a couple of things here...

You have to think that both Cleveland and Boozer knew that these offers were going to come...and that they were addressed...

Bro...I'm not doubting that in the least...of course they had to listen...

and if the Cavs didn't address this...like I said...shame on them...

but without the Cavs letting him out of the contract to begin with...

I don't know man...if Boozer comes out of this looking good in the media after flat out lying to get out of his contract...

30 million is a lot of cash to fucking pass up...but when you put it all together...

it's still shitty...

and the Union would just as soon dissipate the NBA then to let their punk bitches have to stay in school an extra year or two...

[POJO_Risin]

Coach K had a good quote here the other day...

interview: Coach...will you staying in the college ranks give you a bigger voice in the talks between the NCAA and the NBA to institute an age limit?

Coach K: Sure...it'll make my voice louder...there just won't be anyone listening...

[ALinChainz]

Oh it's big time shitty.

Okur average almost 10 a game in varying playing time, is nearly 7'0 and is 25.

I'll hate the world if Rasheed was just putting us on for a contract.

[POJO_Risin]

Well...don't get me wrong here...I know the Pistons were in a shitty position...

but...

Okur didn't get out of an existing contract by saying he'd resign...

then not resign...

I can't wait until that fucker comes back to play in Cleveland...guaranteed sell out...

put him up there with Modell and Elway and Manny and Thome into the Pantheon of fuckheads...in Cleveland Sports History...

[ALinChainz]

Oh I know it ain't the same fucking Cleveland got.

Just I'm also coming from the "I hate to lose a good, young player" standpoint.

And being from Michigan, I'm putting aside my opinions on Cleveland for the sake of discussion.

lol ...

[POJO_Risin]

LMFAO...

well...

Paxson should be murdered...unbelievable fuckup...unbelievable...

[ALinChainz]

Must be why Ainge thinks he can do it also.

Well, he can fuck up to ... mission accomplished.

[POJO_Risin]

Ainge...man...thank god for him...he can make any GM look good...

he'll be gone after this year...when they Deal Pierce for a crack pipe...a case of shasta...and a 6 pack of velveeta slices...

[twonabomber]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Paxson should be murdered...unbelievable fuckup...unbelievable...

yeah. all the stations interviewed a bunch of fans on the news, and they were calling for Paxson's head.

[POJO_Risin]

It's hard to fault the guy for taking 30 million...but damn...

Hey...are they saying anything Twona...

1. Who they'd sign if they go after someone to replace him...

2. Who they'd let go if they kept him...

[twonabomber]

nothing on 1, and supposedly have to let a lot of guys go to keep him. they said the Utah offer is really front-loaded and it would be hard for the Cavs to do anything.

[twonabomber]

The Cavs issued a brief statement after hearing of the potential deal with Utah.

"Our actions have been based upon what Carlos told us he wanted. This was also entirely consistent with his public statements in the media July 1,'' said the statement from general manager Jim Paxson and owner Gordon Gund. "We are both very surprised and very disappointed by what is now being reported.''

[POJO_Risin]

Yeah...I saw all that shit...

fucking Utah frontloads the deal to make it near impossible for the Cavs to match...

outstanding...

no wonder the fucking NBA blows...

[twonabomber]

it's still early, probably won't hear anything really good for a couple days.

and Wagner misses the first day of summer workouts Saturday morning...but made it Saturday night...

[POJO_Risin]

Well...the offer sheet doesn't officially go into effect until next Wednesday right?...so we have 20 days for the Cavs to figure shit out...

Boozer isn't worth 68 million dollars...and they better not fucking match that...it's ridiculous...

[POJO_Risin]

Wagner...christ...injury prone...and now late...lmfao...

welcome to the bench...again...

[twonabomber]

yeah, and Silas is trying to turn Wagner into a point guard...

It didn't take long for Dajuan Wagner to put a damper on what otherwise was a glorious summer day for Cavaliers coach Paul Silas.

Wagner was a no-show for Saturday morning's initial summer-camp workout at Gund Arena.

"It bothers me that he's not here," said Silas, looking stern. "He should be here.

"He needs this."

Wagner, who showed up for Saturday's evening workout that was closed to the media, is needed because he's the subject of the Cavaliers' grand summer experiment.

Silas and the team's coaching staff want Wagner, a 6-2 natural shooting guard, to learn point-guard skills and mentality.

Summer camp, and summer leagues, is where these skills are best taught and carried out.

Not on the fly during the regular season.

Wagner, 21, scored points with the Cavaliers' front office by committing to take part in the summer workouts and the subsequent summer leagues in Orlando, Fla., and Las Vegas,

He lost points by not joining 15 others for Saturday's first workout.

"It will take a total commitment from him to do this," Silas said. "If he can't make it, we'll have to look at this situation closely."

Translated: The Cavaliers will actively seek to trade Wagner, a first-round pick (sixth overall) in 2002.

With LeBron James and Jeff McInnis getting the bulk of the shooting guard and point guard minutes respectively, Wagner can give himself the opportunity for more time on the court as a multi-purpose guard.

But to do this, he must improve his point-guard skills and mentality.

"I could see Dajuan becoming a Mark Price kind of player," Silas said.

Price, a 5-11, 175-pounder when he played for the Cavaliers in the mid-1980s to the mid-1990s, had point-guard skills and mentality parlayed with a shooting guard's perimeter game.

In nine years with the Cavaliers, Price was a four-time All-Star and a first-team All-NBA selection in 1993.

"Mark Price," Silas said, "was a shooting threat who got his shots off in pick-and-roll situations.

"He was also someone who could bring it up the court and get a team in its offense."

In two injury-riddled seasons with the Cavaliers, Wagner has bounced between both guard spots - averaging 10.1 points and shooting 37 percent from the field playing 91 of a possible 162 games.

"Playing the point is more mental than physical," Silas said. "It's understanding how to get others' game off. It's understanding how to get your game off.

"If you haven't done it, it's hard to learn."

Silas said that he's convinced Wagner can pull this off - turn himself into a multidimensional guard.

"Dajuan has extraordinary talent," Silas said. "If anyone can do this, he can."

Silas paused, and smiled. "Having said all that," he added, "the [expletive] should have been here."

[twonabomber]

i wanna know what the expletive was!

[POJO_Risin]

lmfao...

"fucker"

"cocksucker"

"bastard"

"bitch"

"dickhead"

"alloftheabove"

I wouldn't want to piss off Silas...but that's just me...

[POJO_Risin]

Chripes...

this is what the Cavs will have to choose from...

it may be a long season...

Some of the other unrestricted power forwards the Cavs might give a look include Samaki Walker, Robert Traylor, Rodney Rogers, Brian Cardinal, Keon Clark and Mamadou N'diaye.

Antonio McDyess is also an unrestricted free agent, but he would probably demand more than the Cavs' available midlevel money.

and some guy named Al Long...

Good Lord...they should have went after McDyess...

[twonabomber]

Bill Livingston

Paxson should pay for Boozer blunder

Saturday, July 10, 2004

For all the dissembling of the player involved, the Carlos Boozer Affair still goes on Cavaliers General Manager Jim Paxson's record as the most colossally boneheaded move since Fred Merkle and the most ridiculous personnel flub since Ted Stepien.

What is it about "free agent" that Paxson didn't understand?

His greatest triumph, outside the Ping Pong Ball Miracle that delivered LeBron James - and you or I could have picked James No. 1 - was sleuthing out Boozer in the second round. Now, Paxson has either (a) fumbled him away to Utah or (b) forced the team to overpay Boozer grossly just to keep him, in a re-run of the John "Hot Rod" Williams scenario in the early '90s. If it's (b), it not only means years of being strapped on the salary cap, just as were Wayne Embry's Cavs by Williams, but also bulldozing the roster of a promising young team just to clear the money to allow the Cavs to match Boozer's Utah offer.

You have to wonder if (c) isn't out there, too. To wit, how in the world can James - potentially the greatest star in the history of Cleveland sports - possibly want to spend his career in a cockamamie organization that takes part in such a prolonged seltzer squirt?

Spare me the laments that Boozer broke the bond that supposedly exists between fans and jocks. Fans are free to indulge any loyalist fantasies they wish. It's a perk of being a fan. A professional sports GM ought to be a little wiser than that. It is probably best that a GM treat anything an agent or a player says with enough salt to cure a whole pig, not just the hams.

So the dimensions of this mistake cannot be understated.

It's not a team making a bad trade, although the Cavs (see Danny Ferry for Ron Harper) have a formidable body of work in that area. It's not a player walking away for more money, a big factor in the decline and fall of the 1990s Indians. This is losing a guy or putting yourself in a payroll bind for years because you let him become a free agent!

Why would anyone ever do such a stone-cold nonsensical thing? If the Cavs had re-upped Boozer for his third season, he'd still have been grossly underpaid and he would have been unhappy. His gravy train would have been sidetracked for another season, after which the Cavs would hold full "(Larry) Bird rights" to pay whatever it took over the cap to keep him.

A lot of serious problems needed to be resolved by Paxson in the coming season, although they were temporarily dimmed by the glow of James' rookie year. The team had three starters who were in the last year of their contracts - Jeff McInnis, Boozer and Zydrunas Ilgauskas, which is never a good thing. Guys play for numbers and contract leverage then, not for the team. Now, amazingly, Boozer, with Paxson's blessings, did it a year earlier than expected.

Boozer is calling all the shots. I thought he was somewhat overrated, because he plays the kind of defense in the paint that Chuck Wepner played in the ring. Still, on rebounding alone, he was valuable. Now the Cavs will have to overpay an overrated player even more. The only way they can do that is to try to package some of the dross Paxson drafted (DeSagana Diop), with some of his luckless guys (Dajuan Wagner) and a veteran with injury problems (Ilgauskas.)

Paxson has been the Teflon GM in Gordon Gund's feckless organization. But this should stick. This should be the magic word that makes him disappear.

[twonabomber]

Cavs' options are meager if Boozer bolts

Saturday, July 10, 2004
Branson Wright
Plain Dealer Reporter
Orlando, Fla.

Luke Jackson didn't have to wait long for the hard realities of professional sports to fall into his lap.

Minutes after the Cavaliers made Jackson the 10th overall pick in the NBA Draft, Jackson started to imagine playing on the same court with Zydrunas Ilgauskas, LeBron James and Carlos Boozer. Now that the Utah Jazz expects Boozer to sign an offer sheet worth $68 million over six years, two out of three isn't bad.

"I was looking forward to playing with [Boozer] because he's a guy that would help the team win a lot," Jackson said. "When you have the potential to lose a player like that, it's going to hurt."

It's especially painful for Jackson because he imagined so much success with Boozer as one of the leaders.

"I'm disappointed because you want the team to be the best and win as many games as you can. But to have a guy leave like that is something I'm not used to, especially since I'm coming right out of college."

Welcome to the NBA.

The Cavs, meanwhile, have options if they choose to not clear cap space and go after Boozer. Tony Battie would start at power forward, but the team would need to provide Battie some help by acquiring another power forward via trade or free agency.

Unfortunately for the Cavs, the free-agent pickings at power forward are slim.

That's one of the reasons Boozer was able to command so much from the Jazz, and why New Jersey's Kenyon Martin is in line to receive the maximum, about $80 million over six years.

The Cavs could use all or half of their exception, about $5 million, to sign an available replacement.

And the word is out.

Several players participating in the Orlando Pro Summer League want to apply for the Cavs' opening.

"I'm interested in any job because I just want to play," said power forward Art Long, a member of the Washington Wizards' summer team. "I'd love to play in Cleveland. I would fit in because I'm a 6-9 athletic guy who can run the floor and I can defend the three positions."

Some of the other unrestricted power forwards the Cavs might give a look include Samaki Walker, Robert Traylor, Rodney Rogers, Brian Cardinal, Keon Clark and Mamadou N'diaye.

Antonio McDyess is also an unrestricted free agent, but he would probably demand more than the Cavs' available midlevel money.

[ALinChainz]

Boozer $tory revolve$ around 1 i$$ue

By Brian Windhorst, Beacon Journal staff writer

CLEVELAND - On a sunny afternoon on June 30, Carlos Boozer and his party walked away from a meeting at Gund Arena believing he was going to be a Cleveland Cavalier for years to come.


On the sixth floor of the arena's executive offices, team owner Gordon Gund and general manager Jim Paxson believed they were on the verge of making a deal that would satisfy everyone, a rarity in today's NBA.


But somewhere between the goodwill of that day and last Thursday morning's phone call from Boozer's agent Rob Pelinka to Paxson, those good feelings went awry. Now Boozer seems to be headed to the Utah Jazz for lots more money, and even if the Cavaliers match the $68 million offer, they still appear to have made a costly, ill-advised decision.


Here is the story of how Boozer's contract situation turned into a national circus based on interviews with people inside and outside the Cavaliers organization, NBA general managers and players, agents and news media. Boozer and wife CeCe, reached by e-mail, declined to comment, and Pelinka did not return a telephone message Saturday.


The story began last summer after Boozer's very successful rookie season. He rose from second-round draft pick status and the end of coach John Lucas' bench to average 10 points and 7.5 rebounds and was named to the NBA's All-Rookie Team. The Cavaliers and Boozer were excited about his future.


Boozer, however, was not pleased with his contract. A year earlier, in August of 2002, after being impressed with him in summer league, the Cavaliers got Pelinka and Boozer to agree to a two-year guaranteed contract with an option for a third year. This was a rare deal for a second-round pick. Such players seldom receive long-term contracts but Boozer was given $989,000 over the first two years, including a $75,000 bonus for inserting a third-year option. In the third year, Boozer's salary would be $695,000 for the 2004-05 season.


Then, with Boozer's stock on the rise and the fact that a former second-round pick named Gilbert Arenas had just received a $65 million deal after his second season, Boozer's contract suddenly didn't seem so appealing.


Boozer's agent is employed by the sports management group SFX, founded by Arn Tellem. Pelinka asked last summer if the Cavaliers would consider what it would take to let Boozer out of the contract a year early.


During the 2003-04 season, in which Boozer averaged 15.5 points and 11.4 rebounds and finished second in the voting for the NBA's Most Improved Player Award, Boozer and his agent took their contract pleas public to several newspaper reporters.


In late April, after Boozer completed his breakout season, Pelinka brought it back to the Cavaliers' attention and both sides agreed to consider it in June. The parties met twice, once before the NBA's Pre-Draft Camp and once June 30.


Meeting time


On June 30, the principals gathered around a Fortune 500-style boardroom table at Gund Arena. Pelinka had flown in from Los Angeles. He sat on one side with Carlos and CeCe, a Duke graduate who has experience working for sports management giant IMG. Owner Gordon Gund flew in from his offices in Princeton, N.J., on his private jet. He joined Paxson and members of his staff on the other side of the table.


The meeting opened with Gund telling Boozer how valuable he was to the Cavaliers' franchise and their fan base. Gund was perhaps closer to Boozer than any other Cavaliers player. To Gund, players like Boozer and center Zydrunas Ilgauskas represented the transition the organization was trying to make. Each time Gund visited the Cavaliers during the season, either in Cleveland or at road games in Boston, New Jersey, New York or Philadelphia, he spent time talking with Boozer.


Paxson informed Pelinka and the Boozers that the Cavaliers were considering letting Boozer out of the option year. That decision had to be finalized by midnight that evening. Paxson explained to them that after losing Jason Kapono in the recent expansion draft and making a trade to acquire Sasha Pavlovic, the team's payroll would be $43,434,000 next season. That would put the Cavaliers within $3 million of the salary cap, expected to be announced next week.


Paxson said that if the Cavaliers allowed Boozer to become a free agent, the only thing the team could do was offer him something referred to as the maximum "Early Bird" contract. That would be a deal starting at $5 million that would increase 12.5 percent each year for six years, making it worth around $40 million. This was not a contract offer to Boozer, just an explanation of what the Cavaliers' salary cap constraint would be.


Paxson told Boozer that the team would not make any trades or other player moves to try and get drastically under the salary cap to attempt to offer more.


And, as a part of the goodwill gesture of not picking up the option, Boozer and Pelinka would have to calm the fan base by making public statements July 1 of his intention to return to the Cavaliers.


They would not be saying they had agreed to a deal, because that would be in violation of NBA rules because it came before July 1.


Pelinka had brought a copy of the NBA's collective bargaining agreement and referred to the contract rules and read from it several times.


The Cavaliers made it clear to Boozer that as many as seven other NBA teams could offer him more money and the team was taking a risk. Gund told Boozer he didn't want him to commit to a contract that he would regret signing a few years down the road.


The Cavaliers reminded him that by picking up the $695,000 option, the team would be able to sign him to a contract larger than the $40 million deal after the 2004-05 season because they would not be under NBA salary cap restraints.


But Carlos and CeCe, who only a few days earlier were looking at expensive houses in the affluent eastern Cleveland suburb of Bratenahl, said they wanted security now. They understood there was a limit, due to the league's salary cap rules, on what the Cavaliers could offer, but they wanted to remain in Cleveland.


Then Boozer and Gund spoke to each other. As they talked, they appeared to come to a trust they both thought would eventually lead to a deal.


Caucus time


At that time, the parties broke and had separate discussions. It was a tense 10-minute period that might be remembered as one of the most crucial moments in Cavaliers history that didn't take place on a basketball court.


Gund asked Paxson if he thought the Cavaliers could trust Boozer. Paxson pointed out that Pelinka was present when the Boozers said they knew it was possible to get a larger offer than the Cavaliers could put on the table after July 1 -- but they still preferred to stay in Cleveland. At that time, Paxson and Gund agreed to allow Boozer to become a restricted free agent if that was what he wanted.


The Boozers and Pelinka came back into the room and said they indeed wanted to be let out of the contract. They knew they could not make a deal on that day, but Pelinka said he was sure he could work out a deal with Paxson after July 1. Paxson promptly left the room and went to his office, where he had prepared a "qualifying offer," which is part of the procedure in making a player a restricted free agent. Under NBA rules, all qualifying offers have to be issued before July 1.


The meeting then broke up, midnight passed, and Carlos Boozer was no longer a Cavalier.


Crunch time


On July 1, the Cavaliers stunned the NBA by revealing they had not picked up Boozer's option. Boozer and Pelinka granted interviews to the Associated Press stating their preference to re-sign with the Cavaliers. But, in retrospect, they did not issue any guarantees.


"I want to be in Cleveland, I want to be with the Cavaliers," Boozer told the Associated Press. "Now it's up to my agent and the Cavs to work things out."


"Carlos and his wife, CeCe, made it clear to me that they are very comfortable with the Cavaliers organization," Pelinka told the AP. "I'm confident (Paxson) and I will continue to have conversations and we'll be able to work something out."


That afternoon, Utah Jazz owner Larry H. Miller made a previously scheduled phone call to a reporter in Salt Lake City. During the course of the conversation, the reporter asked Miller if the Jazz had any interest in Boozer. Until that moment, Miller didn't know the Cavaliers hadn't picked up Boozer's option. Miller told the reporter he was planning to call Jazz vice president Kevin O'Connor to have him look into Boozer's availability.


On July 2, Boozer disconnected a cell phone that the Cavaliers and media had been using to contact him.


On July 3, the Boozers were telling people that there was no deal with the Cavaliers in place.


Over the July 4th weekend, the Golden State Warriors came to an agreement with center Adonal Foyle on a five-year, $41.6 million contract, a deal worth more per year than what Boozer could sign for with the Cavaliers under NBA rules.


Also, the Jazz agreed to an offer sheet with Detroit Pistons forward Mehmet Okur for six years and nearly $50 million. Neither Okur nor Foyle are regarded as players as talented as Boozer and both were about to get richer deals.


The Boozers and Pelinka took notice. With contract values soaring, especially for big men, Boozer getting a six-year, $40 million deal with the Cavaliers would certainly be lower than his market value.


If the player signed for such a figure, it would affect the agent, too. Potential clients might be told that Boozer had signed what was perceived as a "bad contract." This was what the Cavaliers feared, that Boozer would be tempted to look elsewhere.


On Monday, July 5, Pelinka called Paxson and told him the Boozers had decided to test the market. He took calls from a number of teams and found interest in the Denver Nuggets and the Jazz. On Wednesday, July 7, the Jazz prepared their huge offer sheet.


To ensure they wouldn't lose Boozer, the Jazz wanted to "front-load" the offer, meaning they would pay a large salary in the first year to make it harder for the Cavaliers to try to match. The Jazz were scheduled to host free-agent forward Kenyon Martin in Salt Lake City on Thursday. But they canceled his visit.


Offer time


On Thursday morning, Paxson was in Portland, Ore., for the funeral of his wife's daughter-in-law. Pelinka called to say that Boozer planned to sign a six-year, $68 million offer sheet with the Jazz.


Coach Paul Silas got the message while with family in Oakland, Calif., gathering after the death of his mother, Clara.


Gund was on vacation with his family in Canada.


Upon hearing the news, he got in his jet and departed for Cleveland to deal with the situation.


During the day, Paxson took calls from Gund in his jet in between church and graveside ceremonies at the funeral. Later, they issued a statement expressing their shock and disappointment at the turn of events.


In the following hours, Cavaliers fans filled up reporters' e-mail boxes, expounded on Internet message boards and jammed sports talk-show phone lines as the shock trickled down.


Messages for Brian Windhorst can be left at 330-996-3819 or bwindhor@thebeaconjournal.com

[POJO_Risin]

Adonal Foyle...

God I hope the NBA disbands...

Owners and agents ruined the game...


If the player signed for such a figure, it would affect the agent, too. Potential clients might be told that Boozer had signed what was perceived as a "bad contract." This was what the Cavaliers feared, that Boozer would be tempted to look elsewhere.

Yeah...that's just great...

[POJO_Risin]

And the story gets even more interesting...

Boozer was the asshole in all of this...his agent has resigned...

In the wake of the controversy, a number of agents have claimed that they would resign if their client reneged on a verbal commitment.

"I'd resign immediately if a client wanted to renege on a deal, even a verbal one," one agent told Ford last week. "I still believe integrity in this business matters. If you agree on a deal, you have to live with, no matter what else happens. I personally believe that Boozer and his agent miscalculated a bit here. But I also understand what they did. Players want security. The Cavs can offer that. It just means he has to take less money to get it now. It's a tradeoff."

According to sources, SFX and Pelinka grew increasingly concerned in the aftermath of the agreement that Boozer's betrayal would sully the reputation of the agency and prevent them from conducting good faith negotiations with league owners in the future.


Wow...the agent gets him more money...then resigns before he can claim any of it...

[POJO_Risin]

and one more...

The source told The Salt Lake Tribune for Sunday's editions that Boozer has been surprised and hurt by the intensity of the negative reaction for Boozer's move.


The sentiment on Boozer in the Cleveland area is largely that he is a "backstabbing, double-crossing, money-grubbing Judas," according to the Tribune. Yet, the source told the paper that Boozer contends he did nothing wrong and had been careful not to commit or promise anything to the Cavaliers.


The discrepancy in Boozer's and the Cavs' take on the existence of a gentlemen's agreement hinges on public statements made by Boozer in an interview with The Associated Press on July 1 -- the day Boozer became a free agent when the Cavaliers did not exercise an option in his contract.


At the time, Boozer expressed an intention to re-sign in Cleveland for the team's full mid-level exception -- approximately six years and $40 million. And so, the Cavaliers say, they did not pick up the option.


"Our actions have been based upon what Carlos told us he wanted," the Cavaliers said in a statement Thursday by owner Gordon Gund and general manager Jim Paxson.


"We are both very surprised and very disappointed."


But, according to the Tribune's source, Boozer did not agree to anything -- both because of NBA rules and his own bargaining position.


"He actually pulled out the collective bargaining agreement," the source told the paper, and noted the clauses prohibiting "undisclosed agreements."


The source, who had knowledge of a June 30 meeting in which the Cavs contend Boozer verbally agreed to re-sign, told the Tribune that Boozer "did tell the Cavs that [he] wanted to be in Cleveland & but did not make a commitment or a promise."


Now, the Cavs are almost certain to lose Boozer. The Cavs have the right to match the Utah offer, but they would have to trade and/or renounce the rights to a number of players to clear enough room to do so.


And Boozer, who just a few weeks ago publicly declared his happiness in Cleveland, is reportedly expressing good feelings about his agreement with the Jazz.


The source told the Tribune that Boozer and his wife, CeCe, "are excited that [Jazz GM] Kevin O'Connor is giving them this opportunity," and look forward to moving to Utah.

[POJO_Risin]

And even more intriguing...

amidst the Utah offer...and now Boozer agent canning HIM...

the Cavs have made an interesting under-the-radar move to keep Boozer...

they've offered him a 1 year deal for 5 million...

under this deal...the Cavs could then offer him a monster deal next year...making the Utah deal look imbecilic...

What a fucking mess this is...

Funny...BOOZER's taking the heat from NBA execs...the fans...his own agents...

when the real imbecile...is Paxson...and Gund...

interesting...

[twonabomber]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
when the real imbecile...is Paxson...and Gund...



Poj, we've been watchin' this for YEARS...fuck, where does one start? i mean, all you have to do is drop names, and they make ya cringe...

John "Hot Rod" Williams, Danny Ferry, Shawn Kemp...all fiascos in their own right...Diop, a potential fiasco in the making...then the coaches, Wittman and Lucas...one guy better as an assistant, the other better out of basketball...the dismissal of Fratello...and Paxson isn't really proving he's got what it takes to be a GM. they can't even hire good on-air talent to call the games (Joe Tait excluded)...

why we get all the shitty team owners here, i'll never know.

[POJO_Risin]

Well...twona...I'll never forget in 1989...when Magic was asked who would take over for the Lakers and Celtic as far as the team of the 90's...

and he said, "Wayne Embry's Cavs"

The funny thing about that team...is even with the Cavs being a might strapped financially...because of the Hot Rod deal...they could have won with that nucleus...

Doherty, HotRod, Nance, Harper, Ehlo and Price...quite the nucleus...

[POJO_Risin]

But true...complete morons running all the Cleveland franchises...

morons...

[ALinChainz]

Some buzz about sending Ilguskas (sp?) to the Knicks for Kurt Thomas.

[POJO_Risin]

Yeah...curious to see the difference in their contracts...because that deal just makes no fucking sense at all...

[twonabomber]

A Letter from Gordon Gund Regarding Carlos Boozer


July 14th, 2004

To: Cavaliers Fans
From: Gordon Gund

I know last week’s developments with respect to Carlos Boozer are a source of extreme disappointment for you. I want to assure you that I feel exactly the same way. Like you, I believed in Carlos.

Several days have now gone by. This has helped me to gain perspective. I hope this letter will do the same for you.

First, Jim Paxson has taken a tremendous amount of criticism in the media for what happened. As the team owner, I made the decision not to pick up the option on Carlos’ contract. Any criticism should be directed to me, not to Jim Paxson. I want to be very clear that any fault is mine.

Up until late last week when the trust was broken, I believed in Carlos Boozer, the player, and Carlos Boozer, the person. That is why I tried to do what he said he wanted. We tried to do right by him, by the team and by you in trusting in his repeated insistence that if we showed him respect, he would show respect to us.

Carlos and his agent first approached us in December of 2003, stating his desire for financial security as well as his desire to remain in Cleveland and be a key part of the future of this franchise. He and his agent made it very clear that if we respected them, and provided the security he was looking to gain, he would respect us. Given his record on the court, with the franchise, and in the community, we had every reason to believe his commitment.

Over the course of several months, we had multiple meetings that involved Carlos, his wife and his agent. In our most recent meeting on June 30, Jim Paxson and I told Carlos we had two options. He could play this year on his existing contract and test the market for free agency next year, or we could elect not to exercise the option if we had the understanding with him that as soon as legally possible he would negotiate a contract with us for the maximum we could pay him under league rules.

I told him that as we could not have an agreement at that time given the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement, we would have to trust one another’s intentions. I said I define trust as his intention to stay in Cleveland and enter into a long term contract with us as soon as possible under the league rules. In that meeting, we were clear with him that he could make more money in the open market a year from now than we could pay him by redoing his contract this year. I told him he needed to understand that and we did not want him to later think we had taken advantage of him. Jim told him, “There are at least seven teams that have cap space right now who will want to pay you more than we can now. We don’t want to lose you. Why would we not pick up the option?” Carlos said “Because we'd like long term security and we want to stay in Cleveland.” Carlos went on to say that he was happy to be a Cavalier and never indicated any concern with his role on the team or his relationship with Coach Silas.

Carlos, his wife and his agent – all of whom were in that room -- knew what our maximum ability would be to pay him. Both Carlos and his wife responded that they wanted financial security now and therefore were anxious to pursue the second option of entering into a long term contract with us as soon as possible and that they would live with any consequences from this decision.

Carlos’ agent then said he wanted to go to another room to talk with his client and his wife alone which they did. When they returned, his agent said he had again explained everything to them so that they understood everything involved and said that their thinking had not changed.

Jim Paxson then told him, “We'd like to begin, as soon as permissible, to negotiate an agreement that we can sign on July 14th.” Carlos responded, “That’s exactly what I want. I want to get this done as quickly as we can.”

Over time Carlos had told Jim and me repeatedly, “If you show respect for me, I will show respect for you.” So, in the June 30 meeting, I reminded him of that and said, “We are all counting on what you said in earlier meetings and again today.” He responded, “That’s right and you can trust me on that.” I asked if we could all trust each other? Carlos, his wife and agent each responded “Yes.” At that point, believing so strongly in Carlos, I said we would not pick up his option. Our intent, as soon as we could do so, was to re-do his contract. The quotes you saw in the media July 1 about his desire to remain here were entirely consistent with what he told us.

In the final analysis, I decided to trust Carlos and show him the respect he asked for. He did not show that trust and respect in return. That’s what happened. I wanted you to hear it directly from me. The decision was mine and I take full responsibility.

We currently have no intention of matching Utah's offer to Carlos. In order to match it, and within the restrictions of the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement, we would need to make player personnel moves of such a magnitude that it would have significant negative impact on our team moving forward. We are continuing to look at every possible option that will allow us to improve our team and continue to build on the tremendous momentum we have experienced in recent years. More than ever, we are committed to bringing a championship to this city. Thank you for your continued support of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

[ALinChainz]

I'm all for the trust and keeping your word, all that, I live it.

But for an extra $30 million ... damn.

[POJO_Risin]

I'll be honest with you here...

you can't blame a guy for taking 30 million dollars...you just can't...

but look...if you are aware that other teams are going to make you a big offer...and you flat out say you know that but are going to sign a long term deal with the Cavs...

and you don't...

it's horseshit...

complete and utter horseshit...

Boozer makes out...basketball doesn't...this is one of those moves that will effect every player from this point out...

Fuck Boozer...I hope he catches the eternal clap...and his dick falls off and rots in the stomach of his money grubbing whore of a wife...

fuck them...

[ALinChainz]

I agree. If he knew he would have garnered such an offer, or just came out and said, "look, I want to see what my value may be", then his rep might have remained intact.

He's making the bed he has to lie in, and being a pro athlete, who can be surprised by taking the money and running.

I guess it's all based on, "what if the next time I step out on the floor, I rip my knee apart and its all over?"

Many angles to this thing. And I certainly do not blame any Cav fan for being pissed off, not in the least. And 6 yrs @ $41 million is plenty of money also.

AH, the world of pro sports.

[POJO_Risin]

Oh...I know...if I were him...I never would have accepted that deal...the 1 year...5 million deal...

at that point...

What the Cavs should have done...is offered the 6 year...41 million dollar guarantee...and offered him an out after a year or two of that deal...but Cavs get the right to match...the Bird Rule in effect...

of course...my guess here is that once he fucked them up the ass...there is no fucking way in hell they would have offered him that concession...

This will effect his career...I guarantee it...

Boozer has just become a poster boy for everything that's shitty in the NBA...

now alls he has to do is get caught smoking weed in Portland...

Utah will never win a title...never...

the Cavs will be fine...

[POJO_Risin]

You and I both know Al...that this is to be expected from pro athletes...the norm...

I'm just waiting for the ONE guy to step it up...and say fuck it...I'm happy here...and take a HUGE hit in salary to do it...

Of course...then the union will kick his ass out...

many angles indeed...

[ALinChainz]

It's a step back for sure. Their rooks are going to have to step right in. I'm already thinking of that first game at the Gund when the Jazz visit.

Its just going to take a little longer for the Cavs.

[ALinChainz]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
You and I both know Al...that this is to be expected from pro athletes...the norm...

I'm just waiting for the ONE guy to step it up...and say fuck it...I'm happy here...and take a HUGE hit in salary to do it...

Of course...then the union will kick his ass out...

many angles indeed...

That is a very good point which I hadn't even thought of.

The Players Union. You know they would have jumped his shit. They want that bank breaking each and everytime one of them becomes free agent eligible.

Some guys do it, in all sports, take less money, they just don't hit the news the way the bad shit does.

[POJO_Risin]

It doesn't happen often...and when it does...it's generally because of a local flavor...

like Griffey with the Reds...but he didn't exactly take a pay cut to go there...even though he could have gotten more money from another team...

No doubt the union was involved...

[POJO_Risin]

Another interesting point...

Roth (Gund) came out with his memo...not really a common thing for an owner to come out like that and take the heat...then hammer a player...

can't wait for Eddie's (Boozer's) response...

[POJO_Risin]

Alright, what the fuck...

I'll bring this back from the dead...

Cleveland, 3 games back?

3 game series with Minny?

and kicking the shit out of them right now...as we speak.

After tonight, 12 games left with the Twinkies.

Dare I say it?

If they win tonight, 2 games back, 3 in the loss column.

Good young pitching, no pen, clutch bats, depth.

No Pen, No Pen, No Pen.

Shoulda made a move or two to strengthen that.

I think there are some AL teams that'll be sweatin' it out down the stretch.

[POJO_Risin]

And more or less, a built in trade in September, with Boone coming back.

and if he's good to go, maybe a key contributer, if nowhere else, the clubhouse.

[POJO_Risin]

And the lead grows bigger...

would be five in a row...

of course...it's only August...

[POJO_Risin]

Cleveland beating Minny...

Boston losing...

let's get this summer movin'...

[twonabomber]

Tribe up 7-1 in the 8th. nice. a few days in first place would be good for some of the young guys, a little taste of success never hurt anyone.

[POJO_Risin]

Look twona...the thing with these guys is they've HAD success in the minors...they are used to winning...

I think that this is such a precursor...

Goodness, imagine if they can sign a #2 starter...a couple of bullpen arms...and perhaps...a veteran stick in the OF...

of course...I just had to pause...because that offense...their position players are so damn good...and with Phillips and Pheralta chomping at the bit...

deep as well...

Maybe the 90's era was to beget the true great Tribe era...

the best thing I see right now are the arms...

they have decent power...decent defense...but great young arms...

[POJO_Risin]

What is this? A sell out...a 7-1 win...a game out of first...a pennant chase...

Welcome back Tribe...a win today...and it's all tied up...with 10 games to play against the Twins...

let the games begin...

This team reminds me a ton of that team in 1994...peaking at the right time...

This time though...no strike...

[POJO_Risin]

It's a beautiful day for baseball...

alright, the Indians are tied with the Twinkies...2-2...heading into the bottom of the seventh...

fucking Bettancourt...this guy needs gut...

here's to Durbin, the kid's bringin' it...

C'mon pen...hold this...the offense WILL come through...

[POJO_Risin]

Alright...Howry did his job...barely...

now comes the offense...bottom of the eighth...put this game away...

[POJO_Risin]

Goddamn motherfucker...

Koskie with a 2 run dinger in the top of the 10th...

fuck...

[twonabomber]

yeah, that sucked.

may be a rough week for the Tribe...three in Texas and the weekend in Minnesota. Saturday's game is gonna be on FOX, not sure if it'll be a regional game or not. after that short trip they've got the Yank-me's and White Sox at home.

September looks good, 6 games home and away with both the Tigers and Royals, maybe they can gang up on those two sorry teams. Seattle too.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I gotta admit, I'm rootin' for the Tribe, in an American League kinda way only.... ;)

Caveat: Let no one construe the rooting for the Cleveland Indians in ANY way towards rooting for the Cleveland Browns.... Failure to adhere to that rationale will result in constant forced listening to a custom-made recording of Sambo's rendition of "Uh-huh, dig it, come on, oh yeah".....

;)

[POJO_Risin]

Dude...trust me...I know there's no relationship between the fucking Browns...

and the only team in Cleveland...not counting the Cavs...lmfao...

THE TRIBE...

but the fucking Rangers hung one on their asses last night...

at least Tex hit for the cycle...lmfao...

3 1/2 back...and I need Santana to win tonight...so after tonight...the Tribe can make their final move...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

BTW, sorry to bust up your Tribe thread, but just thought I'd mention that my Buccos as we speak are 6.5 games out of the wild card....

Stranger things have happened....

[POJO_Risin]

Not many stranger things...but a few...

you know...if Pittsburgh could avoid those fucking major ass losing streaks...they'd probably HAVE the wild card...but they seem to bookend 6 and 7 game win streaks...with 10 game losing streaks...

[POJO_Risin]

Interesting developments here...

Boozer playing like ass...like true ass...

lmfao...

and the Jazz looking to ship him off before the deadline...

fucking justice served...

Fuck you Boozer...you piece of shit...

[twonabomber]

ain't that sweet?

[POJO_Risin]

And the rumblings are that Michael Redd will take a paycut to play in Cleveland...close to home...

I know a lot was made in the news the other day about Redd spending all of post OT warm-up shadowing LeBron...instead of taking some shots and stretching...

[POJO_Risin]

Carlos Boozer
Utah Jazz
Position: F-C
Height: 6-8 Weight: 258
College: Duke '03
Player file | Team stats

2004-05 Statistics
PPG 17.9
RPG 9.0
APG 2.8
SPG .82
BPG .48
FG% .521
FT% .706
3P% .000
MPG 35.0


Gooden...in 4 minutes less a game...

Drew Gooden
Cleveland Cavaliers
Position: F
Height: 6-10 Weight: 242
College: Kansas '03
Player file | Team stats

2004-05 Statistics
PPG 14.7
RPG 9.7
APG 1.3
SPG .94
BPG .94
FG% .517
FT% .798
3P% .133
MPG 31.3


Fuck you you overrated piece of shit from Duke...

just as good...at a quarter the price...

[twonabomber]

there wasn't much in the paper about this, just a little part of a column in the PD. from what it said, the Jazz deny Boozer is on the block.

[POJO_Risin]

famous last words...lmfao...

we'll see...it's interesting to see how much he's dropped off though...

[POJO_Risin]

Alright...okay...here we go...the factors for the Tribe to win the whole damn thing this year...

First the Yankees, RedSox...and perhaps 10 other teams have to lay down...

Now...a best case scenario...

Closer...Closer...Closer...look...I liked Wickman...5-10 years ago...but I just don't see him being the lockdown that they need for the entire season...I love Jason Davis as a starter...but...he may be the closer they sorely need...I'd go with Davis in the pen...with Riske, Wickman and Rhodes setting him up...not crazy about the setup guys...but they are as good as most...I like the Sauerbeck signing as well in the pen...it will be vastly improved from last year...they also resigned Paul Shuey and Billy Traber...to minor league deals...but both have major league arms...when healthy...

Starters...Starters...Starters...okay...start with CC...quality starter...but maybe Feller will knock him upside the head...so he starts wearing his fucking hat straight...fucking dipshit....Millwood...hate the signing...but...if he pans out here...stays healthy...he could be a "El Presidente" or Hersiser like signing for these young guys...I look at him right now as a #3...behind CC and Westbrook...followed by Millwood, Lee and whoever they put at #5...right now I think Davis has the heads up...but they have a bevy of young arms that could fill in the role...I've already heard some rumblings about the Indians going after a deal for a starter if they are challenging at the break...with guys like Roy Halladay sitting in the last year or two of their contracts...love Halladay's grit...if not his health...

SS--people overlook what Omar Vizquel meant to this team...but they lost their presence when he left for SanFran...the good news is there is a battle with two minor league studs for the job...Brandon Phillips (who they got from Montreal for Bart), and Jhonny Peralta (who many think has the job). Both are good offensively...both need work defensively...gone are the days of Gold Gloves...but...more power is in the lineup..will see if Peralta can snag the job...and if Phillips can find a spot backing up 2nd (Belliard--although I think he'll lose the 2nd base job to Phillips soon enough), SS and 3B (Aaron Boone, who is healthy, but will need to rest the knee. I think if Phillips gets 4-500 ab's...he'll put up some fantastic #'s...it wasn't long ago they were saying he was in the class of Nomah and Jeter...we'll see...

NO SOPHOMORE SLUMP--VMart is the best catcher in the game...let's move on...

The OF--okay...Coco in center...just a fucking scrapper...love that guy...has ok power...plays with reckless abandon...reminds me a bit of Dave Roberts with pop...a little less speed...but just ends up everywhere in the OF. Casey Blake...not crazy about his power...but he's a solid player...I'd rather he be the 4th OF...and DH...but we'll see...and Juangone...a full season gets him 30 dingers and 100 ribbies...but we know that won't happen at 35...which leads me to believe that Grady Sizemore is going to open up a bunch of fucking eyes...

remember this...GRADY SIZEMORE will be the next great outfielder...

Cleveland certainly can win that division...we'll just see who pans out...and who doesn't...

[POJO_Risin]

I forgot at 2nd base...Hernandez and Cora from the Dodgers...are over here now...hate both...

I just hope Scott Elarton doesn't find his way on this team...

[POJO_Risin]

Scott Sauerbeck is going to play a big part in this team this...

just thought I'd throw that in...

[POJO_Risin]

Aaron Boone is also playing well...

I should say hitting the ball well of late...

would be a welcome addition...if he could stay healthy...

[POJO_Risin]

So Boozer didn't get dealt because he was about to go on the shelf...

good...the guy is a...what did Silas say?

a fucking cunt?

[POJO_Risin]

Brendan Malone gets a win against Detroit...but nothing new for a new coach to get play from a team we haven't seen...

This team needs a better coach...although Malone is a good basketball mind...

I hope they fall flat on their face in the playoffs...

I think the Cavs are going to go after Redd...and/or Ray Allen...this offseason...

they'll have plenty of cap space...and an owner who's apparently willing to lose money to do it...

It may be a short era...but it might be a fun era...

this team needs to sign some people that make it look like they want a title...

then sign LeBron long-term...

[POJO_Risin]

Onto the head coaching position...

it looks like Flip Saunders is the guy they are going to go after...I like Saunders...but he has no fucking playoff history to speak of other than last year...but could be an interesting choice...

and of course...Phil Jackson will be mentioned...and Larry Brown...and some others...

I don't know that Jackson will ever consider Cleveland...although they may be in a similar position as the Bulls were when he came there...

I'm not a fan of Saunders either...another Silas if you ask me...

[POJO_Risin]

Cleveland needs a win against Detroit...and are losing...gotta give props to Detroit in this one...with nothing to gain...they are going all out...

Cleveland is a game up on New Jersey...will lose the tie break if they tie...have knocked out Wallace...and at one point Rip Hamilton out of this game...and are down 4...

not only that...there's this going around...

ESPN's Greg Anthony and Tim Legler, along with TNT's Kenny Smith, have been reported as candidates as either the next GM or coach of the Cavaliers.

Just what the Cavs need...fucking TV analysts running the club...

fuck the Cavs...why don't they just call New York today...and say..."Hey...we'll give you LeBron for a SWIFT KICK IN THE FUCKING ASS..."

[POJO_Risin]

Well...the Tribe rebounds with a good pitching performance from their always injured "ace."

They won because a beaning...but who gives a fuck...just goes to show you that the error and beaning are part of the Twins game...lmfao...

Here's to July 21st...

[DlocRoth]

Keep laughin, punchy... LOL

Get 8-21 tatoo'd on yer ass.

[POJO_Risin]

8-21? WTF kind of calendars do they have in Minnesota...

or have you changed your belief to August 21st...lmfao...dumbass...;)

[Bob_R]

1954 is the year of the last Cleveland Indians championship.

LMFAO.

Or, is it 1948?

Really LMFAO.

[POJO_Risin]

1948....

and pssst...EVH...let me let you in on a clue...and you know it as well as I do...

4 or 5 years for the Yankees...is 50 to the Tribe...

You can throw the big numbers around like 27 championships (which is fucking incredible by the way) all day long...but when you have the talent they have year in and year out...they should win every other year.

The past is the past...and this current team...and the ones of past years have all underachieved...congrats...

[ALinChainz]

Cavaliers Fire GM Jim Paxson



By TOM WITHERS, AP Sports Writer

CLEVELAND - Jim Paxson was fired Thursday as general manager of the Cleveland Cavaliers, whose stunning second-half collapse this season cost them their first trip to the NBA playoffs in seven years.


Paxson's dismissal has been expected for weeks and came exactly one month after Paul Silas was fired as coach by owner Dan Gilbert, who has had a tumultuous first 50 days running the franchise.


The Cavaliers were 31-21 on Feb. 25, and 34-30 when Silas was fired. But the team fell apart down the stretch despite the play of LeBron James and finished 42-40, losing a tiebreaker with New Jersey for the eighth and final playoff spot in the Eastern Conference.


Gilbert, who took over as principal owner from Gordon Gund on March 1, said he released Paxson with two years and $2 million left on the GM's contract because he said change was necessary.


"We felt the team had made progress in the past two years," Gilbert said. "But to get to a championship level we felt we needed to bring our own people in."


Gilbert also said interim coach Brendan Malone, who went 8-10 after taking over for Silas, will not be a candidate to be the Cavs' next coach. Malone, however, will remain with the organization.


In missing the playoffs again, the Cavaliers wasted an MVP-caliber year from James, who averaged 27.2 points, 7.4 rebounds and 7.2 assists in his second pro season. Gilbert, who made his fortune in online mortgage banking, understands the importance of bringing in better players to complement James.


"We've got who we feel is the best basketball player in the game," Gilbert said. "We need to build a team around him and not settle for mediocrity or a .500 season. We want to win a championship or more."


Gilbert said he doesn't have names for a possible successor to Paxson. He wants Cleveland's next GM to hire the team's coach.


Gilbert said Paxson handled his dismissal as well as could be expected.


"Jim has been a class act the entire time," he said. "He has a wealth of knowledge and has been the consummate professional."


A two-time All-Star as a player, Paxson's six-year tenure as Cleveland's GM will be remembered for poor draft picks, a litany of head coaching changes, the arrival of LeBron James, Carlos Boozer's defection as a free agent, but perhaps most importantly, no playoff appearances.


Although critics are quick to point out Paxson's failings, he was also responsible for ridding the team of some burdensome contracts — leftovers from previous GM Wayne Embry — that had prevented the Cavaliers from improving with offseason moves.


Paxson traded Shawn Kemp and his four-year $70.8 million contract to Portland in 2000. He also was responsible for freeing the team of deals that Embry and former principal owner Gordon Gund gave to players including Lamond Murray, Bob Sura, Wes Person, Brevin Knight and Cedric Henderson.


Paxson has finally put the Cavaliers in position to spend money on free agents this summer, but now he won't get the chance.


Paxson joined the Cavaliers as their vice president of basketball operations in 1998 and succeeded Embry as GM the following year. He got a contract extension and promotion last July from Gund, who has retained a 15 percent share in the team now owned by Gilbert.


The Cavaliers were 185-307 in Paxson's six seasons in charge.

[twonabomber]

bye bye Jimmy, you fucking worthless piece of shit.

[twonabomber]

now i gotta return those playoff tix.

[POJO_Risin]

Well...I'm looking forward to next year...they have Cap room...now we'll see if they fucking get the right guy to run this organization...

But I'll tell you this...if it's Tolbert or fucking Kenny Smith...

They need to go out and get someone who fucking knows what they are doing...and is respected in the league...not tv know-it-alls...who will fall flat on their face...

[POJO_Risin]

Cavs are going to make a run at Larry Brown for head coach...a smart move...

and are going to be in play for one or two of the following...Redd, Larry Hughes, Ray Allen or Joe Johnson. Would love to see them sign Hughes and Johnson...

[POJO_Risin]

Larry Brown won't be a head coach...looks like they are looking at him for GM...

I wonder if they could talk him into nabbing Phil Jackson...

[Warham]

I still think Phil will go back to LA.

I think for all his Kobe is a troublemaker talk, he finds him an interesting test.

[POJO_Risin]

Jackson could nullify the "nobody wants to play with Kobe" factor as well...

If Jackson is willing to go back...then other NBA players will follow...

It would be a smart move on the Lakers' part...

a step in the right direction...

and they'd have the two of them hugging and kissing on the front page of every paper in the country...

[twonabomber]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Cavs are going to make a run at Larry Brown for head coach...a smart move...



why, so he can just quit on them? fuck that guy. did you see this in the PD the other day?

Why again, exactly, is Brown revered?
Sunday, April 17, 2005
Bill Livingston
Plain Dealer Columnist

Thank goodness America had Larry Brown, basketball genius, coaching them up last summer in Greece at the Olympic basketball tourna ment.

After all, how could anyone win with Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan, LeBron James, Am are Stoudemire, Dwyane Wade and Shawn Marion on the roster?

If you look at Sports Illustrated's picks for first-, second-, and third-team all-NBA, the aforementioned shirkers, me-firsters, misfits and knuckleheads make up 40 percent of the list. My, what a shabby hand Brown was dealt.

Emeka Okafor, another member of Team USA, is the magazine's choice for Rookie of the Year.

Wade is a key player on the best team in the NBA East, Miami. Stoudemire and Marion have helped give Phoenix the best record in the NBA West. Duncan's Spurs would have had the latter, had he not severely sprained an ankle. The teams of Iverson and James, while disappointing, are still in the playoff chase.

James' Cavaliers are a deeply flawed team. They will play at Larry Brown's Pistons today as big underdogs.

Regardless of result, hold the hosannas to Brown.

The guy he replaced, Rick Carlisle, has done the best coaching job in the NBA.

Carlisle was sacked in what would have been viewed as a disgraceful lack of trust and patience by Pistons General Manager Joe Dumars. . . . except the Pistons, with the critical addition of Rasheed Wallace down the stretch, won the championship under Brown last season.

The nation was informed by the basketball sages that Larry Brown was a coach for the ages. He verified all the platitudes about teamwork and self-sacrifice.

The record says he has one championship in college at Kansas. The NCAA put the Jayhawks on probation right after he left.

He has one in the NBA. The Pistons were a team ready to win, so Brown cooled his chronically meddlesome ways with personnel. The Pistons beat the Pacers in seven games to get to the Finals, then should have swept the dysfunctional Lakers.

This year, both the Pacers and Pistons imploded in the early-season riot in Michigan, but Carlisle's team was devastated by the suspensions that followed. Since the NBA couldn't suspend the drunks and louts in the stands, Carlisle has coached all season without his best player, Ron Artest, and parts of it without almost everyone else. He has done one of the best jobs ever.

In Athens, Brown should have been allowed to choose a shooter as a coach's "wild-card" roster addition. In the absence of such a critical component, he would tell you again and again how the Olympics were the biggest challenge of "his" career. Or that "his" mission was to teach this team how to "Play the Game the Right Way." When it came time to assess responsibility for the bronze medal, "his" butt was going to be covered.

He set the players up to fail by constantly doubting them. When they failed, he was, as his nickname among several NBA types put it, "Larry Blameless."

This isn't about Brown's failure to play James in Greece, although assistant coach Greg Popovich thought James was the best player in practice almost every day.

This is about America's Coach, a man hailed for creating the ultimate example of a team, who yet put the greatest measure of value on his own reputation.

Brown would never have been able to hold the Pacers together. He would have poisoned the locker room when times got tough. It's always all about him.

[Warham]

Jackson's still dating Buss' daughter too, so I'm sure he has her whispering in his ear every night.

[Warham]

Carlisle is definately coach of the year, having to deal with that mess.

[POJO_Risin]

Look...twona...this team needs someone...anyone...that has credibility...

I don't give a shit who it is...

[POJO_Risin]

I agree with the Carlisle comment...and love the fact that he got another job and is doing the job he's doing after being uncerimoniously dumped from the Detroit job...

[twonabomber]

i agree with not hiring some asshole away from his TV job. credibility or not, i don't like Brown.

[POJO_Risin]

I don't think Brown will go anywhere to be a GM...do you?

He likes the limelight to much...

Of course...the GM for LeBron...and his penchant for movement...lmfao...maybe...

[Warham]

It won't be more than five years from now that LeBron is tarred with the same 'selfish' brush that Kobe was tarred with. You can already see the makings of it this year.

This happens when somebody who's the Next Jordan wears out their welcome with the media, and the media wants to move on to the Next Next Jordan.

[POJO_Risin]

Actually...I've heard a lot of talk that LeBron did well and the team gave up...

haven't ever heard that around Kobe...LeBron is getting the benefit of the doubt right now...that he did well in spite of the team...which is why they are saying he wants to leave...

[ALinChainz]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
I don't think Brown will go anywhere to be a GM...do you?

He likes the limelight to much...

Of course...the GM for LeBron...and his penchant for movement...lmfao...maybe...

He has said many times that Detroit was his last NBA coaching job. I read that as he may coach college again if it was right for him.

[ALinChainz]

And LeBron hasn't came out in the media and said anything.

I think he and Kobe are completely different scenarios, where Kobe had another superstar when he came aboard, where Lebron was the whole show from the beginning.

[POJO_Risin]

Larry Brown...has said many times...lmfao...

"I'm staying put..."

only to go days later...

twona's right...you can't trust this guy further than you can throw him...

[ALinChainz]

Yeah but the bad hip now, and the surgery he had as the follow up.

Health isn't as good now.

[POJO_Risin]

Originally posted by ALinChainz
And LeBron hasn't came out in the media and said anything.

I think he and Kobe are completely different scenarios, where Kobe had another superstar when he came aboard, where Lebron was the whole show from the beginning.

Kind of like Michael!...lmfao...

Brown should just go away...then...

[Warham]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Actually...I've heard a lot of talk that LeBron did well and the team gave up...

haven't ever heard that around Kobe...LeBron is getting the benefit of the doubt right now...that he did well in spite of the team...which is why they are saying he wants to leave...

Ah, but I've also heard guys on ESPN saying that since the Cavs choked, shouldn't LeBron get some of the blame?

Magic Johnson was considered to have run Paul Westhead out of town after LA won in 1980, but was never tarred with that brush that Kobe is for running Phil out of town. One of the reasons why is because Magic was never the Next Jordan. It's all a matter of perceptions.

[ALinChainz]

Magic couldn't have been the next Jordan, he was already there.

Magic and Bird saved the league, Magic couldn't do no wrong.

LeBron couldn't take any of the blame, not with his numbers.

[Warham]

Why is Kobe taking blame for LA's bad season with his numbers, then?

2nd in the league in scoring?

I don't think 28, 6, and 6 are bad numbers. In fact the only two guys in the league who had those kinds of numbers were Kobe and LeBron.

[Warham]

YR TM G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF DQ OFF DEF TOT AST PTS

03-04 Lal 65 64 37.6 7.9-18.1 .438 1.1-3.3 .327 7.0-8.2 .852 1.7 0.4 2.6 2.7 0.0 1.6 3.9 5.5 5.1 24.0

04-05 Lal 66 66 40.7 8.7-20.1 .433 2.0-5.9 .339 8.2-10.1 .816 1.3 0.8 4.1 2.6 0.0 1.4 4.5 5.9 6.0 27.6

Kobe actually had a better year statistically this year than last year, when Shaq was still with the team.

[ALinChainz]

Kobe couldn't get anyone else involved. The offense was designed around him and look at his woeful shooting percentage.

Kobe doesn't have it in him to get the players around him to play for him as well as with him.

Who is going to bust hump at all when they already know who is taking the shot?

Of course he is going to have somewhat of a better season without Shaq because Shaq would HAVE to get his touches, and the offense run through him sometimes, the kick outs, etc.

[Warham]

Woeful?

He shot .438 last year WITH Shaq and .433 this year WITHOUT. It's negligible.

His assists were UP this year.

If he averages 6 assists a game being totally selfish, what would he do if he passed the ball? 12-15 a game?

[POJO_Risin]

Fuck Kobe...this isn't his thread...lmfao...

and we've beat this dead horse into the ground...

[Warham]

That's right POJO.

Let's just all agree that Kobe's been manhandled by the media, and we'll move on to LeBron's game.

[POJO_Risin]

I will agree to this...

Kobe's not as bad as we think he is...

Kobe's not as good as you think he is...

and leave it at that...

He's being manhandled by the media because he's a dipshit...

HE SHOULD take lessons from Jordan...who banged white chicks for 20 years without getting caught...

As far as the shit that he was taking for not being a team player...again...there's truth to it...probably not as much as I think...but more than you think...

[Warham]

Yep, the answer usually is always in the middle somewhere.

And you are right about Jordan. He might still be behind Wilt the Stilt in off the court scoring though, still.

I think Wilt said he scored 20,000 off the court, 30,000 on the court. :D

[POJO_Risin]

yep...he said he banged 20 grand...something we can all aspire to...

amazing he didn't get AIDS...lmfao...

equally amazing that there aren't any women corroborating that story...

[Warham]

Yeah, maybe we can shave a few zeroes off the end of that number to get a more realistic figure.

Maybe he meant to say he was seeing the same girls in every town he played in and banged them 20,000 times total. LOL

Somebody said that if he banged 20,000 during his 13 year career, that would have amounted to a little over four chicks a night. I don't know how he averaged 30 and 22 when he was working so hard on his off time.

[POJO_Risin]

Christ dude...he coulda averaged...60 and 45...lmfao...what a bozo...

great player though...of course...it helps to be 7 foot in a league of 5 footers...

[Warham]

Shit maybe that 100 point game wasn't so hard after all!

Maybe he took a night off from banging those four chicks.

[POJO_Risin]

My...how threads can travel in different directions...where to we go from here?

How Mikan wore glasses because he fucked himself blind?

[Warham]

LMAO.

We should really be discussing that phenom that is playing in Cleveland.

:D

[POJO_Risin]

What's to talk about? averaged over 26 a game...over 7 boards and 7 assists a game...

on a team that learned how to stand around and watch him do it because of shitty coaching...

outstanding stuff...

way to fire your coach and go 7-14 or 7-19...or whatever the fuck it was...

morons...

[Warham]

well, I was just trying to get away from talking about Wilt.

LOL

[POJO_Risin]

I say we talk about the numerous wonders of one Eric Snow...of which the NBA couldn't live without...

He published a book this year titled, "I've thought about having sex 20,000 times...still haven't gotten to it yet...unless you talk about that one time with my broth..."

A long title yes...but should garner some interest in the incest circuit...

[twonabomber]

Originally posted by Warham

We should really be discussing that phenom that is playing in Cleveland.



he may be playing today but the games don't count.

[POJO_Risin]

Dude...XBox games are just as important...and probably more entertaining...;)

[POJO_Risin]

It looks like that meddling prick Chuck Daly is talking to Gilbert about moves...

and also talking to Isiah about Carlesimo being a good candidate...

What the fuck is up with old man Daly?...is he bored?

How the fuck old is this guy now anyways? He has to be close to 80...

that's all the Cavs need...and 80 year old coach...

[POJO_Risin]

Okay...got to .500...and only 4 behind the Twinkies...

and the pitching hasn't been that good...and the hitting hasn't been that good...

if the Indians can get the pitching and the hitting...and combine it with their scrappiness...I'll be laughing at Mr. July 21st...

[POJO_Risin]

And here's to the brilliance in signing Juan-Gone...who hasn't had an at-bat since May of last year...over a fucking year...

until tonight...

first at bat!!!!!

and the fucking overrated piece of shit pulls up lame halfway between homeplate and first base...

bee-a-utiful...

what a fucking bum...

[POJO_Risin]

Hafner double...

BROUSARD DINGER!!!

Cleveland up 2-0 on the Twinkies in the top of the first...

[POJO_Risin]

Cliff Lee gives up a double to Lou Ford...but strikes out Morneau for an unscathed first inning...

Lee's going to be their #1 by the end of the year...this big Lefty could be a stud for a long time...

[POJO_Risin]

Lee battles out of a jam in the 2nd...gives up a single to Jones and a single to Hunter with only 1 out...

gets a fielder's choice at home to get Hunter...and some dufus to pop out...

still 2-0 Cleveland...

I thought Santana was slated to start today?

[POJO_Risin]

Where the fuck is that bitch DLoc?

[POJO_Risin]

Torii Hunter fucking Grand Slam...

Jacque Jones Triple...

4-2 Twinkies...

[POJO_Risin]

still only 1 fucking out...

[POJO_Risin]

Santana on the hill for the Twinkies today...and looking good with 10 K's...

but Cleveland's managed 3 runs off of him...and are currently tied right now...3-3...

man...10 K's in five innings...awesome stuff...

[POJO_Risin]

Santana: 123 inning...on 10 pitches...Ked 2...

12 K's in 6 innings...just incredible what this guy can do...

and his training?

He gets ready for teams by playing fucking XBox...

or is it playstation?

[POJO_Risin]

Santana through 7...

another K...

another 1-2-3 inning...

13 K's in 7 innings...95 pitch count...maybe one more inning...

[POJO_Risin]

Eddie Murray fired...an interesting decision since he built a lot of these hitters...

but...a usually good hitting squad decimated this year...

if the Tribe doesn't improve...this could be the first of many personel moves in management...

[POJO_Risin]

Tribe...31-30...not to bad...considering half their lineup is batting at or below the mendoza line...

[twonabomber]

i won some Indians tix at work...Thursday night, 3 club seats, $65 each. free food and non-alky beverages throughout the game. too bad they're only playing the Rockies.

[POJO_Risin]

Dude...you have no idea how much I'm jonesing Tribe tickets...I haven't been back to Cleveland in over 3 years now...and haven't been to a Tribe game at the Jake since 2000....

I don't care who the fuck they play...I'm dying to see a game...

of course...I'm guessing it's a bit easier to get tickets now...than it was in 1999...

[twonabomber]

yeah, there are plenty of tix available now. i guess they do pretty good on walk-ups on the weekends, and if it's really nice during the week, but nowhere like it used to be.

last time i went to a game, it was also with tickets i won from work. those were right behind first base, first row. it was Thome's last weekend in town.

[POJO_Risin]

They are doing now...what they usually do...the 90's were huge...because what it did...even though half the people there were reading books...working on laptops...and fucking women talking about what they were going to be doing all weekend...there is now a good base of fans...from the kids that were a part of it...

so as long as the Tribe puts out a product that has the appearance of being good...they will come...

I'm thinking of flying up for a weekend of games this summer...not sure yet though...

[POJO_Risin]

Indians are 33-30 now...3 games over .500 for the first time in ages...this late in the year...

4 games behind the Twinkies...

9 behind the White Sox...playing well...and thank god we play the fucking shitty as NL...

9-2...

[POJO_Risin]

cleveland up early...2-0 against a really shitty team...Colorado...

fucking hell...Helton only batting .250...

[twonabomber]

Tribe wins, 2-1. that makes six in a row.

here's a couple ballpark pix for Pojo, since he's an expatriated Clevelander and shit:

[twonabomber]

club seats are great. free fucking food...and i hit them HARD. they may be revisiting that policy in the future.

[twonabomber]

lemme know if you make it to town, maybe i'll come to a game too.

[twonabomber]

one more...around the time when the hoodlums come out...

[POJO_Risin]

I love the Club seating as well...

it's funny seeing the stadium partially empty...

I HAVE NEVER been to a game when there were that many seats that empty...

[POJO_Risin]

You know...Millwood's turning into an interesting pitcher...minus the injury of course...ERA under 3...and if he could get some fucking run support...

love the pen...

and damn if the starters aren't groovin' right now...

I'd still feel a whole lot better if they could get their mits on another starter...perhaps to take Westbrook's slot...

[POJO_Risin]

What's that Make Cleveland this year in intraleague games?...10-2?

[twonabomber]

the upper deck was almost completely empty, and that little funny section out in left field was empty too. if the game was at the old stadium, there would have been seven sections full. :D

i took that last pic just before the rain delay. it wasn't very long, maybe fifteen minutes. no sooner they get the tarp rolled up it started raining again, but the ump said game on.

[POJO_Risin]

As it stands right now twona...I'm looking at the 4th of July games...against Detroit...or more likely...the 14th, 15th and 16th against the Black Sox...during my birthday...and could be an interesting series...if things continue to progress...

[twonabomber]

Milwood got his 100th win of his career tonight.

[twonabomber]

i'm busy on the 3rd but could probably make it on the 2nd and 4th. maybe we can get that bum Von Halen to town too.

i'm on vacation the first couple weeks of July, i go back on the 15th.

[POJO_Risin]

I flipped on the tube and saw a runner on second in the ninth...with none out...and was a might concerned...good to see Wickman shut that down...and get Millwood a good win...after his first inning struggles...

[POJO_Risin]

I'll let you know...would be good to get Vonnie down to a game...to see a real team...lmfao...

[twonabomber]

yeah, being up there in Detroit without real baseball and football must suck.

[POJO_Risin]

The 4th may be logistically impossible for me...I know my parents are coming down here on the 29th...and are usually here for the fourth...but I'm going to try and talk my dad into heading home early...so we can hit that game...

I'll let you know in this thread by tomorrow...

[POJO_Risin]

Yo twona...their hockey team is undefeated this year though...;)

[twonabomber]

yeah, them and everyone else!

[POJO_Risin]

Hey...you gotta look on the bright side...lmfao...

[twonabomber]

i forgot.

they played ATBL when Boone came to the plate.

(obligitary DLR/classic VH reference)

[POJO_Risin]

It looked a bit like Boone is looking more comfortable at the plate...hopefully it will continue to translate...

I look up and down that lineup and see Boone's average...Blake's average...Martinez of course...and think...

if they heat up...and the pitching stays sound...there are going to be some troubled teams coming down the stretch...

Sizemore and Peralta are both picking it up a bit...hope it carries over...

Boone with the CVH tune...gotta love that...how can he not improve...

[POJO_Risin]

Man I miss the Jake...

[POJO_Risin]

So...the Twinkies get spanked tonight...

and Cleveland...8 1/2 behind Chicago...

3 1/2 behind Minnesota...

hmmmm....

[POJO_Risin]

and only three teams ahead of them for the wild card slot...early to talk about it...but christ...it's been a few years...just glad to be into June...and able to talk about .500+ baseball...seems that this team is taking the next step...last year it was all about the cusp...then falling back...they've passed the cusp...now the magical 10 games over .500...

I remember thinking the same thing 11 years ago...before the strike...

[POJO_Risin]

8 in a row for Cleveland...

They've won 11 of 12...

36-30 record...

the White Sox win again...so they are 8 1/2 back...damn it...

but...those Twinkies lose again today...

and are 6 1/2 games back...

that's right folks...the Tribe is 2 games behind DLoc's shitwinkies...

[POJO_Risin]

If hotshot Indians keep winning, they will be ahead of schedule


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Peter Gammons
Special to ESPN.com



June 18

It's the 18th of June and the Cleveland Indians are six games over .500, one game better than the Braves in the won-lost column, 1½ better than the Yankees, two better than the Cubs, better than the entire National League West.

Five weeks earlier, the Indians were 12-18 and floundering. Mark Shapiro resisted the temptation that general managers sometime find irresistible -- to feed their egos by making trades to show the fans and media they are "doing something" -- and stuck with what he and manager Eric Wedge believe is a building team that can and will contend next season. "We believed that we are closer to what we hit last season than the first six weeks of 2005," says Shapiro.

As Coco Crisp, Travis Hafner, Ronnie Belliard and most everyone other than Victor Martinez has crept toward their expected norms, the Indians have developed two middle-of-the-diamond regulars in their first full seasons. Grady Sizemore, 22, has an .834 OPS, second best among AL center fielders behind Johnny Damon. Jhonny Peralta, 23, has an .848 OPS, third among AL shortstops after Miguel Tejada and Michael Young.


Outfielder Coco Crisp is one of a host of young Indians players meeting expectations.


With the presence of Bob Wickman at the end of games, Cleveland's bullpen has been the best in the league: Its 2.54 ERA through Friday was .30 lower than runner-up Minnesota, and it has led in strikeout/walk ratio and -- as a stuff indicator -- lowest OPS against. That has allowed C.C. Sabathia, Cliff Lee and, now that he has some support, Jake Westbrook to build as a rotation with Kevin Millwood. Incidentally, Millwood has earned deep respect from his general manager. "This is a guy who threw 200 innings four times before he turned 30," says Shapiro. "When I see that and I see how he stays in games even when he doesn't have his best stuff makes me appreciate how badly he wants it and how he does not ever give in. He's been a very positive influence on the younger pitchers."

Beginning with the 2006 season, the Indians will be able to enter the free-agent market. But they will also have several young pitchers ready for the major leagues, like relievers Fernando Cabrera (5-0, 0.97, 52-7 K/BB in 37 IP) and left-hander Brian Tallet. And Double-A starters Dan Denham (5-3, 3.10, but .201 opponents' average) and J.D. Martin, who in eight starts has a 2.82 ERA and a 56-7 K/BB ratio in 44 2/3 innings. Then there are also two starters who may be on the horizon by this time next year, top prospect Adam Miller, returning from arm problems, and lefty Jeremy Sowers, their 2004 first-round pick from Vanderbilt.

Not that this season is over. The Indians were three games out of the wild card on Saturday, a far cry from where they were five weeks ago, and right where they thought they might be when the season began. Another reminder that even when you're 12-18, only a fifth of your season has been played.

[POJO_Risin]

The FUTURE looks fucking bright...that is for sure...

lots of arms...and we'll get a couple of players next year...

[POJO_Risin]

Cleveland wins their 9th in a row...

Minnesota loses again...

Cleveland 8 1/2 back of the Sox...who won again...

but only a game behind the Twins...and closing in on that Wild Card slot...

damn if there isn't fucking 3 months left...lmfao...

[POJO_Risin]

Cavs are giving their GM job to Danny Ferry...

rumor is...they're going to trade LeBron James to San Antonio for him...Harper wasn't good enough the first time around...

Jesus Christ...

What a carnival of clowns this is going to be...

[twonabomber]

fuck Ferry.

if another white guy from Duke never gets a job in Cleveland i'll be happy.

[twonabomber]

Pojo, you gotta check out www.carlosloozer.com. too fucking funny...

[POJO_Risin]

lmfao...

CARLOS LOOZER and the Revenge of the Stiffed...

with Gilbert as Princess Leia...

Charles Barkley as Jabba the Hutt...

LeBron as Han Solo...

and the loser as Darth Loozer...

shit if that was fucking classic...

[Dave's PA Rental]

:)

[POJO_Risin]

I had a feeling you'd be posting in here...

it's all good Dave's PA...It's all good...

long season...

the Indian youngsters are still finding their footing...

[Dave's PA Rental]

:):)

[Dave's PA Rental]

Sabathia was throwing GAS last night...he got rattled easily...

[POJO_Risin]

I'm not a big Sabathia fan...and I base that simply on the fucking way the fat ass wears his fucking hat...cocked off to the side...what a fucking moron...

Cliff Lee is the ace of the future...maybe now...

[POJO_Risin]

Cavs lose out on Ray Allen...

bastard...

[POJO_Risin]

Cavs lose out on Michael Redd...

bastard #2...

[POJO_Risin]

And just when I was about to post how LeBron was going to ask out THIS YEAR...they sign Larry Hughes to a long term deal...

I like Hughes...with the exception of health...more than Allen...Allen and LeBron would struggle to be the #1...

Redd is strictly an outside guy...but the Cavs need that...but he got the money...can't blame him for 25 million dollars more...

Hughes ISN'T an outside shooter...but another slasher/scorer...

but...definately a #2 option...

Man...if they could have gotten Redd and Hughes...damn it...

Well...Johnson from Phoenix would be the outside guy they need...

[POJO_Risin]

I think they'll sign Z in the next couple of days...

and who knows...they could go after Simmons...or Johnson...

Simmons was something like 45% from 3 land...and Johnson had to be close to that...

who knows...

[seenbad]

Cleveland just became a very scary team.

[POJO_Risin]

Well...my excitement seen is that they still have the kind of room to sign a couple of guys...

So they sign Z in the next couple of days...and they will...

And I'm hoping that they sign Sarunas Jasikevicius...from Lithuania...who's probably the best player outside the US right now...he's a PG who can shoot...and they ARE CLOSE to signing him...

He's 6'4"...but...he's being hounded by Indiana, Dallas, Utah and Portland as well...

he wants to play on a contender...which puts Indy at the top of the list...but they can only offer half the mid-level exception...

Dallas...he can't take them seriously...and again...half the midlevel exception...Utah is a fucking joke...and I can't see you looking at Portland and Cleveland right now and saying Cleveland...

so you throw out there every night:

Sarunas Jasikevicius
Larry Hughes

LeBron James
Drew Gooden

Z Ilgauskas

thats a good starting linuep...

they have that 7'3" fucker that many think is another Nowitzki off the bench...Luke Jackson...a shooter off the bench...Eric Snow...a good backup PG...

[POJO_Risin]

So here's their roster as we speak...

LeBron James
Larry Hughes
Eric Snow
Martynas Andriuskevicius (the 7' 3" kid that many compare to Nowitzki)
Anderson Varejao (PF) only 23...big kid...
Luke Jackson
Aleksandar Pavlovic
Eric Snow
Ira Newble (not sure if he's still on the roster?)

Players to be signed:

Zydrunas Ilgauskas C 29 7 FA
Sarunas Jasikevicius

it's a good roster...

[Warham]

Larry Hughes????

That doesn't make Cleveland a scary team.

[POJO_Risin]

I didn't say it does...but it certainly makes them a better team...especially once they resign Z...and sign Jasikevicius

It gives them a solid...solid starting five...

a shooter...big man...rebounders...

and their bench has the pieces as well...

[POJO_Risin]

Perhaps they will overcome a shitty coach...

[Warham]

But is it enough to beat Miami?

[POJO_Risin]

It depends who stay in Miami...

and Hughes makes them an even better defensive team...

Shaq another year older...

so lets say Wade and LeBron nullify each other...

who's got the better overall roster after that?

besides...I don't think Miami will be the team to beat next year...I think it will be Indiana...and Detroit again...

[Warham]

I don't give a shit about Miami, I just used them as a the goalpost since every media guy had their nose up Shaq's bunghole last year.

[POJO_Risin]

Man...you Laker guys are like a broken ass record...lmfao...

[Warham]

:D

[POJO_Risin]

I was listening to Magic make some interesting statements last year...

He said something like, "Kobe...it took a couple of years for him to develop...Garnett...and Bynum we're looking at to be there in a couple as well. It take those young guys a couple of years to really develop....except for LeBron...he's special...special..."

doing a little recruiting...early recruiting...

interesting that he lumped Kobe and Garnett into a 2 year program...while saying LeBron's special...lmfao...

[POJO_Risin]

last night...not last year...

[Warham]

Oh, I'm sure Magic would love to see LeBron in an LA uniform. I believe Johnson still owns 5% of the Lakers, so he's definately putting them ahead of his 'analyst' duties.

[POJO_Risin]

OH...yeah...he owns five percent...that fucking guy is worth some fucking money though...

750 million...

[Warham]

Yeah, the Lakers ownership was just something that Dr. Buss gave him for being such a trooper all those years. Magic was unbelievable when he played. One of the five greatest players ever...he could do it all. I was soo glad when he unretired for that half-season. I didn't care if he scored 5 pts a game and had 5 assists, it was worth it to see him again. He actually had a pretty good season. 15ppg 8 rpg, 7 apg.

[POJO_Risin]

Yeah...to bad he lost all those years though...to damn bad...

wasn't his last game in preseason the year he first retired...against the Cavs?

didn't he get cut?...

[seenbad]

Originally posted by Warham
Larry Hughes????

That doesn't make Cleveland a scary team.

You're kidding right? Dude, the guys a total thief and scorer. Look at his stats.

Remember Stoudamier is open as a free agent also. The dude wants a ring. He's a very solid PG.

[POJO_Risin]

I don't have a problem with Stoudamire...as long as he knows his role...

They need a point...I just want them to get a good one...or they are stuck with fucking Eric Snow...

[POJO_Risin]

Bro...give War a break...he's still frazzled a bit over the loss of Shaq...

Once he gets over that...he'll realize that Hughes is a solid addition...and will make it extremely tough to double LeBron...although...teams right now can still clog the paint...

they need a point that can score...