What if Jimmy Carter's Second Term Had Not Been Stolen?

[Satan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=YdkU6LHMq8g

[Satan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pazrDHzCvDo

[ELVIS]

What if monkeys flew out of your anus ??

[Nitro Express]

Billy would have managed to get out a light beer on the market.

[Nickdfresh]

If the same 1980 election were held today, I would have voted for Carter. But his "second term" wasn't "stolen." He was unlucky and the victim of circumstances of the Iran Hostage Crisis and an economic malaise not really of his doing and was the result of the drag the Vietnam War had had on the economy. Things were turning around by the end of his term, the actual recession didn't hit until Reagan's Presidency. Something people like to selectively forget...

[ELVIS]

Carter wasn't so bad...

[Never was]

I actually like Jimmy Carter - the person and leader of the Carter Foundation. He has done some truly great work and is not by any means the baffoon is often painted as. That said, he was an ineffective president and lost re-election in large part because of underestimating his opponent. The Elder Bush made the same mistake with Clinton, another former governor who was not taken seriously as an opponent.

The speaker comments on Carter's ideas and vision which may have been noble depending on point of view but in terms of actually effectiveness he had trouble wotking with his own party in congress. Reagan and Clinton were president's who despite lots of rhetoric seperated ideas and legislation. Reagan worked w Tip Oneil effective despite never ever agreeing and Clinto dealt with a republican revolution that was actually favorable for them both. Carter and his own party clashed over routine appointments.

His second term likely would have been ineffective as well and he only acknowledged his funadamental economic mistakes in the 90's well after his second term. He understood the energy crisis but he mistakenly viewed energy prices as inflationary and increased money supply to help consumers combat the external shock. Problem energy prices function more as a tax on consumers and impact growth not inflation. Increasing money supply is highly inflationary. So energy zaps growth and money supply creates inflation hence you see the stagflation result.

I disagreed with many many things Reagan did but that disagreement does not make Carter more effective cause he simply was not. Outside of politics and parties his priciples and vision have served him well, as a president they rendered him ineffective.

[ELVIS]

Nicely said...

[sadaist]

What if monkeys flew out of your anus ??


I dont know. But I found this picture.


http://static.gigwise.com/gallery/9033393_115785.jpg

[Seshmeister]

If Carter had been re-elected a lot fewer Americans would have died of AIDS...

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/Reagan-s-AIDS-Legacy-Silence-equals-death-2751030.php


Reagan's AIDS Legacy / Silence equals death

Allen White
Published 4:00 am, Tuesday, June 8, 2004

As America remembers the life of Ronald Reagan, it must never forget his shameful abdication of leadership in the fight against AIDS. History may ultimately judge his presidency by the thousands who have and will die of AIDS.

Following discovery of the first cases in 1981, it soon became clear a national health crisis was developing. But President Reagan's response was "halting and ineffective," according to his biographer Lou Cannon. Those infected initially with this mysterious disease -- all gay men -- found themselves targeted with an unprecedented level of mean-spirited hostility.

A significant source of Reagan's support came from the newly identified religious right and the Moral Majority, a political-action group founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell. AIDS became the tool, and gay men the target, for the politics of fear, hate and discrimination. Falwell said "AIDS is the wrath of God upon homosexuals." Reagan's communications director Pat Buchanan argued that AIDS is "nature's revenge on gay men."

With each passing month, death and suffering increased at a frightening rate. Scientists, researchers and health care professionals at every level expressed the need for funding. The response of the Reagan administration was indifference.

By Feb. 1, 1983, 1,025 AIDS cases were reported, and at least 394 had died in the United States. Reagan said nothing. On April 23, 1984, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced 4,177 reported cases in America and 1,807 deaths. In San Francisco, the health department reported more than 500 cases. Again, Reagan said nothing. That same year, 1984, the Democratic National Convention convened in San Francisco. Hoping to focus attention on the need for AIDS research, education and treatment, more than 100,000 sympathizers marched from the Castro to Moscone Center.

With each diagnosis, the pain and suffering spread across America. Everyone seemed to now know someone infected with AIDS. At a White House state dinner, first lady Nancy Reagan expressed concern for a guest showing signs of significant weight loss. On July 25, 1985, the American Hospital in Paris announced that Rock Hudson had AIDS.

With AIDS finally out of the closet, activists such as Paul Boneberg, who in 1984 started Mobilization Against AIDS in San Francisco, begged President Reagan to say something now that he, like thousands of Americans, knew a person with AIDS. Writing in the Washington Post in late 1985, Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Los Angeles, stated: "It is surprising that the president could remain silent as 6,000 Americans died, that he could fail to acknowledge the epidemic's existence. Perhaps his staff felt he had to, since many of his New Right supporters have raised money by campaigning against homosexuals."

Reagan would ultimately address the issue of AIDS while president. His remarks came May 31, 1987 (near the end of his second term), at the Third International Conference on AIDS in Washington. When he spoke, 36,058 Americans had been diagnosed with AIDS and 20,849 had died. The disease had spread to 113 countries, with more than 50,000 cases.

As millions eulogize Reagan this week, the tragedy lies in what he might have done. Today, the World Health Organization estimates that more than 40 million people are living with HIV worldwide. An estimated 5 million people were newly infected and 3 million people died of AIDS in 2003 alone.

Reagan could have chosen to end the homophobic rhetoric that flowed from so many in his administration. Dr. C. Everett Koop, Reagan's surgeon general, has said that because of "intradepartmental politics" he was cut out of all AIDS discussions for the first five years of the Reagan administration. The reason, he explained, was "because transmission of AIDS was understood to be primarily in the homosexual population and in those who abused intravenous drugs." The president's advisers, Koop said, "took the stand, 'They are only getting what they justly deserve.' "

How profoundly different might have been the outcome if his leadership had generated compassion rather than hostility. "In the history of the AIDS epidemic, President Reagan's legacy is one of silence," Michael Cover, former associate executive director for public affairs at Whitman-Walker Clinic, the groundbreaking AIDS health-care organization in Washington. in 2003. "It is the silence of tens of thousands who died alone and unacknowledged, stigmatized by our government under his administration."

Revisionist history about Reagan must be rejected. Researchers, historians and AIDS experts who know the truth must not remain silent. Too many have died for that.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/Reagan-s-AIDS-Legacy-Silence-equals-death-2751030.php#ixzz2VpxkOo2D

[Never was]

Yes one of the many things I feel Reagan got wrong, but again doesn't make Carter more effective.

[sonrisa salvaje]

Who was our last good president?

[Satan]

Who was our last good president?

Depends on how you define "good".

Even the mostly good Presidents have made a mistake or two. FDR was unquestionably the greatest President of the 20th Century, but Japanese Americans probably would at least partially disagree, and with good reason. LBJ did some legitimately great things for the US, but they were dwarfed by 60,000 needless deaths in Vietnam. The right wing media will tell you myth after myth about the magical jelly bean eating B movie actor, but reality shows that he began the 32 year death spiral that is still killing this country, and in reality did nothing to benefit the American people. Clinton left office with a surplus, but he also enabled the creation of FAUX Noise and Clear Channel with the "Telecommunications Act of 1996" and allowed a right wing congress to repeal the Glass Steagal act, which directly enabled the Wall Street criminals to take the reckless actions they did during the Chimpministration.

[Nitro Express]

The last good president was John F. Kennedy. One must look at his executive order to issue currency through the US Treasury Department instead of the private Federal Reserve Bank and him working with Indonesian president Sukarno in removing vast gold deposits out of The Fed and into the US Treasury. Sukarno and his asian allies and Kennedy were working together to put The Federal Reserve bank out of business. Shortly after Kennedy issued the executive order he was assassinated and then the CIA ran a coup de tat in Indonesia to take Sukarno out.

Interestingly enough one the Indonesians working with the CIA was Mr. Soetoro who was Barry Soetoro (Barrack Obama's) step father. Interestingly enough the East/West center at the University of Hawaii was also a CIA front. It could be possible that the Dunhams were CIA assets which would explain a lot. I personally think after Kennedy was killed the CIA took over the White House and every president since was either in the know or used as a puppet with CIA insiders in the White House. Call it the Bush Criminal Empire or whatever else you want to call it. After Kennedy got it, the big industrial complex took over selling out the US to multinational corporations and ruining our currency in the process to finance all sorts of wars. One thing for sure, JFK was not part of that ilk.

Kennedy was also a leader. I don't see any president today to have the balls to commit to a huge program like the Apollo program and then actually inspire people to actually accomplish a huge goal. What did we get out of that program? A lot. We got way more out of it than we put into it and we moved technologically forward without getting into a war. Going to the Moon was Kennedy. Vietnam and government waste was what followed him and it hasn't stopped. Something bad moved into the White House after Kennedy died and it's influence is still in the White House.

[Zing!]

Eisenhower explicitly warned the American public it was coming in his farewell address.

[Satan]

Eisenhower knew what the BCE agenda was, because he knew the BCE.....


http://sarcastro.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/14-george-bush-en-eisenhower.jpg




Technically, he was their first President, though unlike his VP Nixon, he was never truly on board with their agenda. Tricky Dick was a BCE puppet all the way back to 1946.....

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/prescott-nixon.jpg

[ELVIS]

I'm starting to see why you pose as Satan...

[LoungeMachine]

Who was our last good president?

Washington. And Jefferson. [reading Meacham's book now]

Lincoln, both Roosevelts, Kennedy, Ike, and Billy were pretty damn good as well.

:gulp:

[Nitro Express]

Eisenhower knew what the BCE agenda was, because he knew the BCE.....


http://sarcastro.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/14-george-bush-en-eisenhower.jpg





Technically, he was their first President, though unlike his VP Nixon, he was never truly on board with their agenda. Tricky Dick was a BCE puppet all the way back to 1946.....

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/prescott-nixon.jpg

Pictures mean nothing. Just because someone takes a picture of you talking to someone doesn't mean you are in their dirt. I've was at a fundraising diner where H.W. Bush was present. Let's say someone snapped a picture of me with him, suddenly I would be a member of the BCE.

[Nitro Express]

I dont know. But I found this picture.


http://static.gigwise.com/gallery/9033393_115785.jpg

Women are taking over the universe. This is proof of that.

[Satan]

Pictures mean nothing. Just because someone takes a picture of you talking to someone doesn't mean you are in their dirt. I've was at a fundraising diner where H.W. Bush was present. Let's say someone snapped a picture of me with him, suddenly I would be a member of the BCE.

Perhaps not, but it's well established that Prescott Bush and his Hitler funding buddies are the ones who recruited Dick Nixon to run for Congress (after his previous service to the BCE, which involved helping their Nazi buddies get into the US after the war) and that it was Grandpa Prescott who introduced Tricky Dick to his "golfing buddy" Dwight D. Eisenhower, and paired them up as the first BCE Presidential ticket in 1952.

Not that Ike and Dick were ever friends though. Presidential Historian Anthony Bergen writes.....


The Eisenhower/Nixon relationship was tense during Eisenhower’s Presidency, but improved over the years and was quite close prior to Eisenhower’s death in 1969 (just two months after Nixon finally became President). Nixon revered Eisenhower, but when he became Eisenhower’s running mate in 1952 and then found himself caught up in the “Checkers” scandal, Eisenhower became wary of Nixon. There were rumors that Eisenhower was planning to dump Nixon from the ticket in 1956, but it didn’t happen.

Nixon ended up being a very good Vice President and a good balance to Eisenhower. Nixon was young (just 40 years old when he was inaugurated as VP) and Eisenhower was one of the oldest Presidents in history. Eisenhower was moderate and seemed calm and composed, while Nixon was his bulldog and hatchet man. Eisenhower didn’t need Nixon as much as Nixon needed Eisenhower, but I think Eisenhower was better off because of Nixon’s presence.

Their relationship was still strained when Nixon ran for President in 1960 upon Ike’s retirement. When asked what major projects Nixon had assisted with during the Eisenhower Presidency, Ike famously said, “If you give me a week, I may think of something.” Eisenhower also delayed his endorsement of Nixon during the 1960 race for the Republican Presidential nomination — something which led Nixon to reportedly finally snap at his boss and tell him, “There comes a time in matters like this when you’ve either got to shit or get off the pot.”

Link (http://deadpresidents.tumblr.com/post/1127018886/did-eisenhower-and-nixon-hate-each-other-same-question)


Odds are the two probably wouldn't have had much to do with each other after January 20, 1961, had Ike's grandson David not married Julie Nixon. Ignoring family is a little more difficult that ignoring ex-employees. The fact that Nixon was so willing to go along with the BCE agenda, and Ike was not, no doubt played a big part in the distance between the two.

[knuckleboner]

just so we're clear, if such a thing as the BCE existed and helped steal the election from jimmy carter in 1980, they would've started with stealing the primary for bush...

[Satan]

just so we're clear, if such a thing as the BCE existed and helped steal the election from jimmy carter in 1980, they would've started with stealing the primary for bush...

Not likely, because Poppy Bush couldn't have won the general election, and they didn't have the means of outright stealing it like they did in Florida 2000 or Ohio 2004 available to them in 1980. So they needed a candidate whose image they could run on, which was Reagan, but they made sure Poppy was on the ticket.

Then his CIA buddy Bill Casey flew to Paris and met with the Iranians, committing treason and lengthening the hostage crisis, in a similar way to how they extended the Vietnam War in 1968 when the LBJ administration was trying to end it and leave Humphrey with a clean slate.

Now whether Poppy intended to give himself a promotion on March 30, 1981 or merely send Reagan a "message" as to who was really in charge, is of course, open to interpretation. What is not is the fact that Poppy picked most of the cabinet, and also the links between the BCE and the Hinckley family.

[knuckleboner]

Not likely, because Poppy Bush couldn't have won the general election, and they didn't have the means of outright stealing it like they did in Florida 2000 or Ohio 2004 available to them in 1980. So they needed a candidate whose image they could run on, which was Reagan, but they made sure Poppy was on the ticket.

Then his CIA buddy Bill Casey flew to Paris and met with the Iranians, committing treason and lengthening the hostage crisis, in a similar way to how they extended the Vietnam War in 1968 when the LBJ administration was trying to end it and leave Humphrey with a clean slate.

Now whether Poppy intended to give himself a promotion on March 30, 1981 or merely send Reagan a "message" as to who was really in charge, is of course, open to interpretation. What is not is the fact that Poppy picked most of the cabinet, and also the links between the BCE and the Hinckley family.

wait, so now you're saying they didn't steal the 1980 election? i guess them BCE are some tricky bastards.


look, you've got some great criticisms of the policies - the need to actually...demonize (;)) them is counter productive because it draws attention away from the policy complaints.

[Satan]

It wasn't an outright theft like 2000 or 2004 was, but it was the use of treason and deception to make the incumbent look bad, and as I said, the plan was similar to what they did in 1968.

LBJ's team then was close to ending the Vietnam war. The BCE promised the Vietnamese a better deal. LBJ knew what they were doing, as did key Republican leaders in the Senate, but both were reluctant to expose the truth to the American people. This conversation is now a matter of public record.

And now the guy who was President of Iran in 1980 has confirmed a similar story during that year.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yij8BIgJrMs