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Nickdfresh
06-29-2013, 08:26 AM
Peugeot family could hand control to General Motors
Reuters reports PSA-Citroen is rapidly running out of operating capital, meaning drastic action is required

http://www.garage24.net/504ww/US-02.jpg
Peugeot pulled out of the U.S. market by the early 1990's...

Darren Moss
by Darren Moss
27 June 2013

The Peugeot family, founders of PSA Peugeot Citroen, could step back to let GM take over the ailing business. City sources have already warned that PSA could get close to not having enough free cash to run the business by the end of 2013.

A report from news agency Reuters suggests that if GM were to take control of PSA it would want to shut down factories and make redundancies in France and Germany, something the French government is unlikely to let Peugeot family do in its home market.

Peugeot is reported to have sought finance for the business elsewhere, but a lack of willing bidders has forced it to turn to GM, which owns seven per cent of the current business. The move was made with the support of current PSA Chief Executive Phiippe Varin, reports Reuters.

A similar bid to sell a substantial stake to a consortium led by Dongfeng Motor Group has already fallen through.

Overall the Peugeot family owns a 25.4 per cent stake in the company, but controls 38.1 per cent of the voting rights.

Speaking to Reuters, sources close to the ongoing discussions said: “The Peugeot family has now accepted that they'll lose control.

“PSA will need to present a new industrial plan for people to underwrite a capital increase, and the only hope is GM. They (GM) are ready to inject more money if they can control the business, integrate Peugeot and Opel and rationalize production.” Peugeot, which is heavily reliant on sales in its home territory, is fighting for survival according to the report.

GM bought 7 per cent of PSA in February 2012. Since then, the French Government stepped in with financial aid for Peugeot's own bank, ensuring it could still offer competitive finance to new car buyers.

The deal now hinges on GM. Sources say GM bosses need assurances that they would be able to cut plants and jobs “at reasonable cost.”

Widespread cuts in France, which would be almost certain under GM control, would be fiercely resisted by President Hollande's government. However, the French Government is said to understand that in order to return to profit Peugeot either needs to seek a larger tie-in with GM, or seek a similar deal with another industry partner. Peugeot, which employs 77,000 workers in France, has already mothballed its production plan in Aulnay and is scaling down production elsewhere.

Autocar noted last year that in bailing out PSA, the French government might have harmed long-term deal prospects.

Neither Peugeot nor GM has commented on the story.

AutoCar (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/peugeot-family-could-hand-control-general-motors)

twonabomber
06-29-2013, 08:37 AM
Can GM afford to take on that risk? They're not doing so hot in Europe, either.

Most of the Opels are showing up in the States as new Buicks.

Nickdfresh
06-29-2013, 08:47 AM
My only speculation is that GM is looking to counter the Fiat-tification of Chrysler with a Euro automaker's mystique...


Here's another thread on it: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/peugeot-family-could-hand-control-general-motors-119378/#post2721201

It seems GM might be interested in acquiring their tech, especially in small diesel manufacturing. PSA also does fairly well in China...

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 09:04 AM
When is GM's next taxpayer funded bailout ??

twonabomber
06-29-2013, 10:08 AM
My only speculation is that GM is looking to counter the Fiat-tification of Chrysler with a Euro automaker's mystique...


Here's another thread on it: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/peugeot-family-could-hand-control-general-motors-119378/#post2721201

It seems GM might be interested in acquiring their tech, especially in small diesel manufacturing. PSA also does fairly well in China...

GM already has Euro brands Opel and Vauxhall. Maybe without the mystique, though. And Fiat gets some of their diesels from VM Motori, but Fiat only owns 50% of the company.

GM does well in China also, via Buick, and they are hoping Cadillac has the same success.

I read an article on Jalopnik about GM's CEO wanting the Opel Adam (think Fiat 500 competitor) to be sold here as a Buick, but the author suggests selling it as an Opel. Opels were sold in Buick dealerships in the 70's, so the precedent is there.

http://jalopnik.com/heres-how-gm-can-sell-the-opel-adam-in-america-575451024

Nickdfresh
06-29-2013, 10:12 AM
They definitely shouldn't re-badge the Adam. I just noticed that Chevy now offers a "Turbo" Sonic, which is sort of being hailed as the poor man's Fiat 500 or Mini. I imagine the price ain't much cheaper than the 500's or Mini's. But there might be some redundancy with the Adam for a high performance subcompact...

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 10:13 AM
I sure don't give a fuck if Cadillac is successful in China...

They should be building them here and charging the Chinese a premium for the privilege...

twonabomber
06-29-2013, 10:15 AM
Mini proved that people would pay out the nose for a "premium" small FWD car. Chevy is trying it with the Cruze, and I guess they're doing okay. Cruze is much better optioned/equipped than the junk it replaced.

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 10:19 AM
I just noticed that Chevy now offers a "Turbo" Sonic, which is sort of being hailed as the poor man's Fiat 500 or Mini.

Poor man's 500 might be right...

The 500 looks good but it really kinda sucks...

The tiny 137hp Sonic 6spd "RS" (yeah right) is zero to 60 in 8.1 fucking seconds and is as plasticky and cheap as can be...

The seats are nice though...

I've checked out all of these little cars being a neon freak for years...

The best little car by a zillion miles in my opinion is a Subaru BRZ...

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/11q4/431835/2013-subaru-brz-photo-432135-s-1280x782.jpg


:killer:

twonabomber
06-29-2013, 10:20 AM
I sure don't give a fuck if Cadillac is successful in China...

They should be building them here and charging the Chinese a premium for the privilege...

Yeah but if Ford and Chrysler play by China's rules and GM did what you propose it would put them at a disadvantage. The tariffs would kill sales.

Nickdfresh
06-29-2013, 10:20 AM
I sure don't give a fuck if Cadillac is successful in China...

They should be building them here and charging the Chinese a premium for the privilege...

They could never produce enough here for that market with all the shipping costs...

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 10:21 AM
Mini proved that people would pay out the nose for a "premium" small FWD car. Chevy is trying it with the Cruze, and I guess they're doing okay. Cruze is much better optioned/equipped than the junk it replaced.

Yep, I agree...It's like a tiny Cadillac...(doesn't speak too well for Cadillac though)

But like all GM cars of the last 20 or so years, they're aging poorly in the asthetics dept...

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 10:23 AM
They could never produce enough here for that market with all the shipping costs...

Charge the fucking Chinese the shipping cost...

Cadillac is supposed to be a world class USA brand !!

Von Halen
06-29-2013, 10:23 AM
When is GM's next taxpayer funded bailout ??

The ones they never paid back? The ones they will never pay back?

Give them more, so they can go spend $35 million of it on signage for their corporate building?

I wouldn't drive Generic Motors anything in the future. I don't care what they come out with.

Nickdfresh
06-29-2013, 10:24 AM
Poor man's 500 might be right...

The 500 looks good but it really kinda sucks...

The tiny 137hp Sonic 6spd "RS" (yeah right) is zero to 60 in 8.1 fucking seconds and is as plasticky and cheap as can be...

It's no more "plasticky" than any of the competition. Ever been in a Fit? Ugh! And I could out-drive most people in bigger "performance" sedans like a Beamer with a slushbox with those numbers...


The seats are nice though...

I've checked out all of these little cars being a neon freak for years...

The best little car by a zillion miles in my opinion is a Subaru BRZ...

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/11q4/431835/2013-subaru-brz-photo-432135-s-1280x782.jpg


:killer:

Subaru has built a good performance car for years, their horrible previous generation Imprezas notwithstanding...

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 10:25 AM
Yeah but if Ford and Chrysler play by China's rules and GM did what you propose it would put them at a disadvantage. The tariffs would kill sales.

Build Buicks and Chevys there if they need to...

Not Cadillacs...

It kills the brand image and when that's gone it's all gone...

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 10:26 AM
It's no more "plasticky" than any of the competition.

Bullshit...

That's why the only place you see one is on the back of a Chevy lot next to the dusty volt nobody wants...

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 10:27 AM
And I'd take a Fit over a Sonic or 500 any day...

Von Halen
06-29-2013, 10:28 AM
Charge the fucking Chinese the shipping cost...



Why not?

They charge us here in Detroit the exact same "Destination Charge" they charge to ship anywhere in the U.S., even if the Dealer is a block from the plant.

Nickdfresh
06-29-2013, 10:28 AM
Build Buicks and Chevys there if they need to...

Not Cadillacs...

It kills the brand image and when that's gone it's all gone...

LOL Um, they've already fucked over the brand image with the awesome Cadillac Caviler, er, Cimarron!

http://img.timeinc.net/time/2007/50_cars/cadillac_cimarron.jpg

Nickdfresh
06-29-2013, 10:29 AM
And I'd take a Fit over a Sonic or 500 any day...

You're insane. Those things are shit to drive, the panel is horrible...

Von Halen
06-29-2013, 10:29 AM
And I'd take a Fit over a Sonic or 500 any day...

My Father In Law has a Fit.

A lot of repairs...

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 10:30 AM
So keep doing it ??

Like Von said...

Fuck GM !!

twonabomber
06-29-2013, 10:30 AM
I wouldn't drive Generic Motors anything in the future. I don't care what they come out with.

I have been looking at used CTS-V's sedans and wagons. Then I go on the Dodge site and build an SRT Charger, then to the Jeep site and build a Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon...I'd probably get a better deal on one of those with my dad's employee/retiree discount.

Nickdfresh
06-29-2013, 10:31 AM
Honda is way overrated. They "reliability" monicker is taking a severe hit. Never, ever buy the POS Honda Pilot. The 3.5L engines in those things are sludging like the toilet the morning after eating a Paula Deen recipe...

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 10:31 AM
My Father In Law has a Fit.

A lot of repairs...

Just changed my mind...:biggrin:

I don't buy new cars anyway...

I rotate used vehicles...

Currently I own three GM trucks and I'm supposed to be a Mopar guy...:biggrin:

twonabomber
06-29-2013, 10:32 AM
My Father In Law has a Fit.

A lot of repairs...

Clown car.

My brother has an Aveo, with a year newer motor in it. It was throwing a code so he was able to talk the guy way down on it. My brother likes it for his commute but the kids hate it. They'd rather roll in mom's Commander.

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 10:32 AM
Honda is way overrated.

I wouldn't go that far...

I work on vehicles all the time and Honda's don't have a lot of problems...

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 10:34 AM
I have been looking at used CTS-V's sedans and wagons. Then I go on the Dodge site and build an SRT Charger, then to the Jeep site and build a Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon...I'd probably get a better deal on one of those with my dad's employee/retiree discount.

The CTS-V is neat, but not really all that nice...

Any SRT will age better than the GM offerings...

Nickdfresh
06-29-2013, 10:35 AM
I wouldn't go that far...

I work on vehicles all the time and Honda's don't have a lot of problems...

They're better than average overall maybe, but getting they also get a free pass on their problems they create and like to ignore. I had a girlfriend who had the old late-80's, early 90's Civic that had a bad headgasket. Those cars were infamous for them...

ELVIS
06-29-2013, 10:40 AM
Any aluminum head four cylinder is infamous for head and head gasket problems secondary to lack of routine maintenance leading to overheating...

I've driven four cylinder cars like a madman all my life and never blew a head gasket...

I've spun a few bearings though...;)

Von Halen
06-29-2013, 11:02 AM
I have been looking at used CTS-V's sedans and wagons.

My Son has a sedan. Had to have major engine work before 20k.

One of my customers wife had one. She despised it. Just traded it in on a brand new Edge.

I am with you Elvis. I am never buying new again.

Romeo Delight
06-29-2013, 11:05 AM
Ever driven a VW Jetta tdi? Loving that car. I spend about $200 a month on diesel fuel when I would have spent about $700 on gas.

The torque is ridiculous. I am never buying a gas car again.

Romeo Delight
06-29-2013, 11:44 AM
Check out this video...this is where you really appreciate the diesel...dude is going uphill, passing cars at will and the engine is just humming along with little effort. I swear that engine could go at that speed uphill all day long and want more.

This is the passat which is about 200-300 lbs more than the Jetta with the same engine.

Romeo Delight
06-29-2013, 11:52 AM
220 kms per hour is about 140 mph

twonabomber
06-29-2013, 11:53 AM
If I bought a Volkswagen it would be a Phaeton. Same platform as a Bentley Continental.

Romeo Delight
06-29-2013, 11:56 AM
isn't it over 400 horse and 400 foot lbs of torque? Yeah

Romeo Delight
06-29-2013, 12:01 PM
The way I looked at it was it was an actual ROI (that the Hybrids just don't deliver yet) and with some performance.

Compared to a gas car, VW is paying me to drive their vehicle when I look at the fuel savings versus a typical gas vehicel.

twonabomber
06-29-2013, 12:04 PM
I kept my gas guzzlers and bought a house closer to work. :D

My big Jeeps probably get 10 mpg.

Romeo Delight
06-29-2013, 12:07 PM
This isn't bad to pull your boat...

http://www.vw.ca/en/models/concept-car/cross-coupe.html

516 lb-ft of torque, 0-60 in 6.5 seconds and fuel consumption levels of just 2.7 L/100 km. That is insane

Romeo Delight
06-29-2013, 12:11 PM
http://www.vw.ca/en/models/concept-car/concept_t.html

Can't wait

Nickdfresh
06-29-2013, 12:26 PM
The Cruz comes in a turbo-diesel now; I think it gets like 46mpg...

FORD
06-29-2013, 12:39 PM
http://www.vw.ca/en/models/concept-car/concept_t.html

Can't wait

That thing looks like they tried to mate a Touraeg with a Tesla Roadster.

So would that mean it's half diesel and half electric?? :biggrin:

Romeo Delight
06-29-2013, 12:49 PM
It's the perfect combination for us in the Pacific Northwest...electric for when we are stuck in traffic, and the diesel to take our boat out on the weekends. Everyone on my block has a 50-70k truck that must cost them 800 per month to drive in fuel. They need it for their boat. What if there was an option like this? I think it would sell

Von Halen
06-29-2013, 02:36 PM
The Ram will be available with a diesel in its 1500 later this year. They are going to sell the fuck out of those. GM and Ford will be scrambling.

FORD
06-29-2013, 04:37 PM
Seems like such a no-brainer.... all three have been making the heavy-duty trucks with diesel engines for years. It's not like it's ever been much of a stretch to put one in the smaller pickups.

twonabomber
06-29-2013, 05:49 PM
The Ram will be available with a diesel in its 1500 later this year. They are going to sell the fuck out of those. GM and Ford will be scrambling.

I eagerly await the first build thread of one of those smaller diesels in a Wrangler. You know someone's gonna total a truck before a year is up.

I would love to put a truck LS in my Waggy but I'll stick with the AMC 360 for now.

ELVIS
06-30-2013, 10:29 AM
Waggy ??

What a douchebag...:biggrin:

twonabomber
06-30-2013, 10:44 AM
Yeah, Waggy!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r169/mdallas07/DSC01133_zps204d65ea.jpg

I scrapped the white one in December. The gray one runs great. Has an Edelbrock intake and 4 barrel.

Came with a bunch of extra parts, four clean doors, both inner and outer front fenders, and a hood without a crease down the side. Oh, and a frame, because this one is missing part of the rear frame. Working on getting the other frame stripped down and painted.

Nickdfresh
06-30-2013, 01:48 PM
Seems like such a no-brainer.... all three have been making the heavy-duty trucks with diesel engines for years. It's not like it's ever been much of a stretch to put one in the smaller pickups.

I think one of the sticking points was emissions. Romeo's diesel VW's have generally been available since at least the 80's here. But for a couple of years in the late 1990's or early 2000's NYS and Cali banned them due to the diesel emissions. Now with clean diesel tech and the marvel of urea (or DEF) :biggrin: you can have a small diesel that has no worse emissions than most gasoline engine cars, and they pretty much start up and run like a gas engine in winter now too...

ELVIS
06-30-2013, 02:02 PM
Yeah, Waggy!



That's a Wagoneer, not a Waggy...

Just like a Challenger is not a Chally and a Suburban is not a Burb and so on and so fourth...


:rolleyes:

ELVIS
06-30-2013, 02:04 PM
And as much as I love and respect LS motors, put a fucking Mopar mill in that bitch...

maybe a crate 360 magnum with over 400hp on pump gas ??

Kristy
06-30-2013, 02:05 PM
Who in the fuck would ever want to buy an piece of shit American made passenger car in this day & age?

twonabomber
06-30-2013, 02:08 PM
That's a Wagoneer, not a Waggy...

Just like a Challenger is not a Chally and a Suburban is not a Burb and so on and so fourth...


:rolleyes:

GRAND Wagoneer. :D

'89, with rear wiper instead of spoiler, and the overhead console that was only in the '89 - '91's.

Not doing a full resto, going to make a wheeler out of it. If I did an engine swap in something it would probably be a late Chrysler 360 into my Wrangler. Combine the wiring harnesses and all the gauges work, and when it's scanned it comes up as a V8 Wrangler.

ELVIS
06-30-2013, 02:09 PM
I work on cars daily and drive only American because they're the overall best...

They're the cheapest to maintain and way cheaper to repair, by far...

And American cars still seem to be the ones that stay on the road the longest...

And I repair VW, Mercedes and BMW and I do Turbos and such so don't go spouting off that I have no idea what I'm talking about...


:elvis:

ELVIS
06-30-2013, 02:12 PM
GRAND Wagoneer. :D

'89, with rear wiper instead of spoiler, and the overhead console that was only in the '89 - '91's.
.

Yeah dude, I like those and so does my wife now...

Currently, we have a 6.0L Denali XL that's pretty awesome...

twonabomber
06-30-2013, 02:20 PM
There was a '90 (I think) GW for sale a mile or so from the house last week. $5500. Dark blue, sand interior, clean inside and out. Had a Texas inspection sticker on the windshield. I would feel guilty wheeling it, or maybe even driving it in the winter. Drove over there this morning and it was gone.

If I bounce mine off a tree I won't feel bad, I don't have much money in it...yet.

Nickdfresh
06-30-2013, 02:54 PM
Who in the fuck would ever want to buy an piece of shit American made passenger car in this day & age?

Because it's this day and age and not yesterday and age. Most American cars are on par with anything foreign and Ford actually had a vastly better line-up in Europe and sold their second hand car shit here. No longer...

Romeo Delight
06-30-2013, 03:03 PM
Ford has done an amazing job...not so sure about Dodge (I can speak from experience here) or GM

Romeo Delight
06-30-2013, 03:07 PM
I don't know how you could say that US cars stay on the road longer Elvis...it is simple as how long the parts are rated for. I was pretty amazed to see how piss poor the Dodge parts were rated...the time I looked at it, any imports parts were rated on average twice as long...which means simply that by the time the warranty expired, the Dodge car would simply start falling apart

Romeo Delight
06-30-2013, 03:13 PM
Urea=horse piss...lol