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Jérôme Frenchise
11-27-2013, 09:54 AM
I’ve had this on my mind for quite a long time. I’m almost not superstitious, and it is the only reason why I must say I am, a little.
My family (both on my mother’s and my father’s side) has had very bad luck for about a century, as far as I know at least. You might be a Cartesian, when it comes to serial misfortune you may end up wondering what on earth could explain it.
And by misfortune, I mean a certain number of accidental or early deaths.

So, it all started with some unfortunately quite common losses at the time (the 1910s), when my granddad’s (on my father’s side) 3 sisters died from Spanish flu. My grandfather and his 2 brothers survived and lived 80 to 87 years. Then my grandmother (on my father’s side) lost her only sister at the age of 13 (she was 16 herself) from respiratory failure in the 1930s (there was a 10-year gap between my grandparents).

Then, on my other granddad (my mother’s father’s) side, they were 6 children, my grandfather being the only boy. All of them lost one child, in order of age. My granddad being number 5, he was the 5th to lose his only son (my mum’s brother), in 1991. I discovered him dead at his home by the way (nobody had had any news of him for a couple of weeks, so as the family was worried and I was a student about 8 miles away I went to see what was wrong – his letter box was full of messages from his friends… he had been dead inside the house for two weeks), a very sad loss, dead at 39 from heart failure, he was a very talented and appreciated painter (he did expositions in Paris, Brussels and Bonn), and a musician too. “Accidental suicide”, after two decades on various substances, including uppers and downers – he had once too many that caused heart failure.

Before him there had been 4 premature deaths, each one happening to my granddad’s sisters in order of age, including a 17-year-old girl during some benign surgery…
At my uncle’s funeral, my granddad’s younger sister was all the more in tears that “she was next”, as she said… which didn’t fail to happen, as she lost her elder son who committed suicide a couple of years later.

Then… My brother lost his 4-year-old elder son (my godson) last year in a car accident. He was a very lively, precocious child – eager with learning and doing things. He wasn’t far from being able to read. In retrospect it was like learning was a race for him, he was so active…
He happened to be a VH fan by the way, through my younger bro. He had a set list for my brother to play in his car while driving to school, “Jump”, “She’s the woman”, alongside with AC/DC tunes and my own band’s “Oh yeah”. Of course I can’t listen to those songs on purpose anymore. For my brother, I just can’t imagine how it is, not having him anymore. Unbearable.
His (now 2 year-old) younger son fortunately survived after a 2-week resuscitation. No words can express the pain it is to lose a child, and not more can the relief of learning the little brother is out of danger, and a couple of months later without any after-effects (safe the loss of his brother, now deep inside of him). No need to say the second son’s survival is my bro’s and his wife’s survivals as well…
My brother, I precise, is my younger bro. I don’t have any children of mine – “only” my girlfriend’s. I wonder if I would have lost one if I’d had some…
Mostly, I’m worried about my sister (I have two younger ones, the elder being the mother of two girls). It seems it follows generations.

Such series can make you wonder, can’t they?
Some will say it’s “just bad luck”, but then what is it? What causes it?
Others will suggest it’s “a curse” – but how can that seriously work? Wishing bad to somebody and their offspring, using obscure formulas that would work - how?
Makes no sense… but then again the series is so incredibly regular that it may seem “scheduled” if you look at it when you feel a little weak.
And random, or on the contrary cold determinism don’t sound more satisfying explanations either.

Has anybody here heard or read about such disturbing coincidences?

Cheers.

Jérôme Frenchise
11-27-2013, 12:08 PM
I mean, it makes me shiver. You, who pass by and read this, what's your take?

We've all heard of evil wishes pronounced like "Be cursed, you and your family, for the next 10 [or so] generations!"

I've always shrugged to that, but I really don't know what's under all this and can't see it as a series of coincidental bad luck.

DLR Bridge
11-27-2013, 12:28 PM
I mean, it makes me shiver. You, who pass by and read this, what's your take?

We've all heard of evil wishes pronounced like "Be cursed, you and your family, for the next 10 [or so] generations!"

I've always shrugged to that, but I really don't know what's under all this and can't see it as a series of coincidental bad luck.

I'm of the opinion that there's no such thing as luck. Good or bad. Chips fall where they may.

vandeleur
11-27-2013, 12:51 PM
Am a shit happens sort of guy .
Think it's Tim minchin who has a sketch about million to one chances happening all the time .
Something along the lines of in the universal scheme of things with billions and billions of happenings, million to one shots are two a penny :-) so to speak .
So random weird shit happens all the time .
In my humble one .

Satan
11-27-2013, 12:54 PM
Well, being the Devil, I have a unique perspective on these kind of things..... because so many people blame me for all this kind of shit!

On one horn, it may seem ridiculous to think there are such things as curses, or bad luck in certain families, or whatever. And then you look at the Kennedys and have to reconsider. That's a lot of shit for one family to go through........

Jérôme Frenchise
11-27-2013, 12:59 PM
I'm of the opinion that there's no such thing as luck. Good or bad. Chips fall where they may.

So am I. The tiles that falls onto your head just when you're passing by is no bad luck, just a fact.
Luck is a feeling. You feel luck or bad luck, but obviously there's nothing but fact, neutral fact.
But it's hard for us humans to think otherwise.

When facts happen in series, how can you not look for what might be behind?

I particularly choke on my mother's dad's family: his 4 elder sisters all lost a son or a daughter, the elder
lost his, then the second sister and so on, till he lost his son, my uncle. Then his younger sister "knew"
she would be the next one to lose one of her children, and she did.
I'm not into statistics, but this alone is amazing. What are the chances for that to happen?
OK, that's life, anything goes as one may say, the best or the worst, but here coincidence is too weak an
explanation to me.
And to think my other granddad lost his 3 sisters when they were 3, 5 and 8, and his wife, my grandmum,
lost her 13-year-old sister: for both of them, it was half of their parents' children, no less...
At that time (1910-1930) though, medicine was not as efficient as it has turned to be. This is surely part
of the explanation.
But on my other grandfather's side, the successive deaths occured from the late 1960s to the early 1990s,
when medical care had greatly improved. The fourth of my granddad's niece who died did during some very
benign surgery, because of anesthesia.

Like you, my brain can't take superstition, but feelingswise I just can't handle fateful coincidence.

VAiN
11-27-2013, 01:24 PM
Wow, that's a lot to take in.. Really an unbelievable set of coincidences.. Ultimately I believe the universe has a plan, some good and some not-so-good. I can understand how that must be getting in your head.
Let's explore the curse option.. How far back can you trace your family? Any run-ins with the occult 100 or 200 years ago? It's definitely fascinating.

Coyote
11-27-2013, 01:28 PM
It's all in the mind...

cadaverdog
11-27-2013, 04:59 PM
Well, being the Devil, I have a unique perspective on these kind of things..... because so many people blame me for all this kind of shit!

On one horn, it may seem ridiculous to think there are such things as curses, or bad luck in certain families, or whatever. And then you look at the Kennedys and have to reconsider. That's a lot of shit for one family to go through........
Some might say the Kennedys are just getting a lesson in bad karma. The old man was a bootlegger. If you were a bootlegger you had to have muscle to back your play back then. I'm sure he probably had a few competetors eliminated back then just to stay in business. Ted was a murderer. Another Kennedy family member raped and killed some girl. I've heard that the Navy would have court martialed him for dereliction of duty for the PT 109 incedent if his daddy hadn't pulled some strings. Someone should have been on watch and in the Navy the skipper is responsible for the actions of his men. The captain of my ship was the son of a naval hero and he got away with shooting down one of our planes and ramming one of our subs , doing so much damage the sub was decommisioned.

CVH Rulz
11-27-2013, 06:54 PM
And then you look at the Kennedys and have to reconsider. That's a lot of shit for one family to go through........

I've always felt the thing with the Kennedys is in part because of their wealth and lifestyle. Plane crashes, skiing accidents, drug overdoses. When your lifestyle has you jetting all over and living a life of excess, the likelihood of bad shit happening is multiplied over the average joe shmo who goes on vacation once every year or two.

Seshmeister
11-27-2013, 07:06 PM
Plus there are a hell of a lot of them.

Jérôme Frenchise
11-28-2013, 11:45 AM
Am a shit happens sort of guy .
Think it's Tim minchin who has a sketch about million to one chances happening all the time .
Something along the lines of in the universal scheme of things with billions and billions of happenings, million to one shots are two a penny :-) so to speak .
So random weird shit happens all the time .
In my humble one .

Why not see it like this indeed, if everything is possible then why wouldn't things be as they are, though amazing?
I like to think that events cannot be otherwise, as they happen while there can be but one event happening among a few, many or an infinity.

Considering them great, unfair, lucky, unlucky is only human.

Jérôme Frenchise
11-28-2013, 11:55 AM
Well, being the Devil, I have a unique perspective on these kind of things..... because so many people blame me for all this kind of shit!

On one horn, it may seem ridiculous to think there are such things as curses, or bad luck in certain families, or whatever. And then you look at the Kennedys and have to reconsider. That's a lot of shit for one family to go through........

... on the other horn, there may be nothing in common between the Kennedys and my family, but their family got a lot less bad luck than mine - they're "just" uncomparably more famous.
Power draws envy and trouble. Some members of my family got positions with responsibilities, but nothing to do with leading the USA... Not to say Kennedy had anything coming of course.

Jérôme Frenchise
11-28-2013, 12:07 PM
Wow, that's a lot to take in.. Really an unbelievable set of coincidences.. Ultimately I believe the universe has a plan, some good and some not-so-good. I can understand how that must be getting in your head.
Let's explore the curse option.. How far back can you trace your family? Any run-ins with the occult 100 or 200 years ago? It's definitely fascinating.

A pre-determined plan, or an instant step-by-step interweaving of events, that's the question. We still can but make hypotheses about it.

My grandfather on my mother's side died last April at 87, I don't know if there was any genealogy made. I'll ask my grandmother, his wife, when I can.

My other grandmother died in May at the age of 93 - she could easily have turned 100 years old if she hadn't decided to call it quits. She went through a lot of hard times throughout her life, and the loss of my godson pre-killed her in a way. She had done some work on genealogy on her side and my grandfather's, up to the French Revolution ( 1789 for those who don't remember :) ), and I'll have to take a look in it.

Jérôme Frenchise
11-28-2013, 02:17 PM
Oops! I wrote "random" in the thread title, but the correct word is CHANCE, (another) French word, that means... LUCK.

We say "hasard" for "chance". The English "hazard" corresponds to "hasard" in "games of hazard" and the verb that means "risk".

Maybe events happen both by chance and framed into determinism. Life could be "live" with a screenplay that would be written instant after instant.

It changes nothing anyway, however you look at them, things remain the same...