The best Hair Metal record?

[binnie]

For some folks this will be akin to picking the 'best' STI, but like it or lump it Hair Metal was a distinct time and (for better or worse) an important part in metal's history and evolution. So which album best defines the genre and demonstrates it at its best?

DISCLAIMER: there are no CVH on here because I just don't consider them to be Hair Metal, regardless of what those bands took for Ed and co.

[Jérôme Frenchise]

http://www.rockwired.com/amorica.jpg

Sorry, couldn't hairlp it. ;)

[binnie]

Outstanding :D

[Jérôme Frenchise]

I went for "Pyromania". Played side A dozens and dozens of times - and "Rock of Ages" and "Action, not Words" as well.

One day, about 8 years ago, I was having beer with one of my best mates who happens to be the bass player in our band.
We were taking a look at his vinyl records collection, and I came up against a copy of "Pyromania". We put it on his turntable,
and at some point he said: "Pretty good stuff, but too bad you can hear the drummer is missing an arm..."
Then I replied: "Oh, but he still had both of his arms on this album, you know..."

:biggrin:

The sound of the drums, mostly, is the weak point in this record IMO.

[binnie]

I went for Skid Row. I think their first record was the culmination of Hair Metal, in some ways. The songs were so well done and the production - although dated now - sounds huge. In a sense they were more than a 'Hair' band, as they demonstrated later. I'd say that with Bach on vocals and Sabo/Hill on guitar you had something pretty damn special.

[binnie]

I'm also tempted to say that, if you consider it a 'Hair' record, Extreme's 'Pornograffitti' is a helluva record, and absolute monster. Personally, I think in many ways it's very, very different to the genre, so I didn't include it.

[DLR Bridge]

Hey Bin, Extreme will be out your way doing 4 dates in early July, playing just that CD apparently. Definitely check it out. Nuno is perhaps the best live guitarist I've ever seen. Never disappoints.

[Mr. Vengeance]

I went with Out of the Cellar. It not only is my favorite on that list, but also just misses my personal top 5 albums all time.
In case anyone carees, and I'm sure many don't, my top 5 is
AC/DC- Highway to Hell
AC/DC- Back in Black
Ramones- Road to Ruin
Alice Cooper- Love it to Death
Rolling Stones- Beggars' Banquet

[DLR Bridge]

I went with Skid Row. During the "hair" days, it was actually kinda cool having a band from my neck of the woods be out there ripping it up. I think they only got better as they grew out of the hair movement, though. Subhuman Race is up there with WACF as far as bands 3rd albums go.

The hair metal CDs (cassettes actually) I wore out the most were Pride by White Lion and Tell No Tales by TNT.

[saint]

Tough one, hard to chose between Cinderella and Ratt, but Ratt already had 2 votes so I went with Cinderella:) I listened to both a lot, I liked the blusier sound Cinderella had, but Ratts riffs are awesome.

[Coyote]

Whitesnake. Mainly because of John Sykes... (And it was the first "hair metal" CD I bought.)

[Jérôme Frenchise]

BTW, I'm no G 'n' R fan (because of Axhole Rose...), but won't spit at a glassful of "Appetite for Destruction" once in a while...

I'd even dare say this could be the best fit ( a little too obvious to mention, maybe :) ).

[Never was]

I actually liked the Slide it In album better. Both great records but WS to me was always better as a blues rock band than when they got into the hair metal realm to sell records. Stalkers in Tokyo is their acoustic record and does a great job of highlighteing Coverdale's strength which is his low end.

[Coyote]

Well, Slip Of The Tongue would've been too much "hair" for metal...

[binnie]

Hey Bin, Extreme will be out your way doing 4 dates in early July, playing just that CD apparently. Definitely check it out. Nuno is perhaps the best live guitarist I've ever seen. Never disappoints.

Yeah, I saw that. Just need to convince Mrs binnie to go. This may prove difficult given that I also need to convince her to go to a 3 day metal festival in the same month.......

[binnie]

BTW, I'm no G 'n' R fan (because of Axhole Rose...), but won't spit at a glassful of "Appetite for Destruction" once in a while...

I'd even dare say this could be the best fit ( a little too obvious to mention, maybe :) ).

Would you consider G'N'R a 'Hair' band? Not sure I would......

[DLR Bridge]

Would you consider G'N'R a 'Hair' band? Not sure I would......

Agreed. They may have had the hair, but were more of a step in the direction of sleeze metal, not that anyone really ever called it that. Essentially just a dirtier version of hair metal that put the hair bands in a choke hold. Then grunge came along and popped both of their balloons.

[So this is love]

My vote goes to Def Leppard-Pyromania heard that album too many times not to vote for them, but an honorable mention to all of the others. I'm surprised no one voted for Quiet Riot, Poison or Motley Crue, those were decent albums back then...

[78/84 guy]

Poison. Look What The Cat Dragged In ! They are the true originals. Shit GN'R isn't a hair band. Nor is Whitesnake, Def Leppard, AC/DC or Skid Row. Ratt kind of turned into one. As did the Crue for awhile. Cinderella is a good one. Tesla was the best band of the 80's. Solid writing and about 6 great albums. All the way up too this year. Just seen them last week. Great live band still. I'd give it too Gun's but they fizzled out way too fast.

[binnie]

I think Skid Row were definitely a 'Hair' band on their first record, but they quickly became something much heavier.

[binnie]

I really didn't think that Cinderella would be winning this poll.....

[78/84 guy]

I think Skid Row were definitely a 'Hair' band on their first record, but they quickly became something much heavier.

No way. Just because it was 88 or whatever. I don't buy it. They never had that look. I love how if you put out a rock album in the 80's you are a hair band. I guess Priest and Maiden are also ?

[78/84 guy]

I said I'd give it too Guns but the fizzled too fast. I rethought that statement. Hell the helped end it. But they did some of that look in their club days.

[cadaverdog]

http://www.rockwired.com/amorica.jpg

Sorry, couldn't hairlp it. ;)
Copied from a Hustler Magazine cover 1976.

[sonrisa salvaje]

For me it is a touch choice between Crue and Ratt though i am not convinced that when those records came out Hair Metal even existed. They arguably became hair bands later but at the time these were just solid hard rock bands.

[sonrisa salvaje]

No way. Just because it was 88 or whatever. I don't buy it. They never had that look. I love how if you put out a rock album in the 80's you are a hair band. I guess Priest and Maiden are also ?

I think it has more to do with success by way of the ballad. Skid Row may have been falsely labeled due to the success of 18 and Life as well as I Remember You.

[Seshmeister]

I'm not sure Pyromania should be on the list. It predates the hair metal thing and Def Leppard were never very strong on the image front.

[Seshmeister]

I went for "Pyromania". Played side A dozens and dozens of times - and "Rock of Ages" and "Action, not Words" as well.

One day, about 8 years ago, I was having beer with one of my best mates who happens to be the bass player in our band.
We were taking a look at his vinyl records collection, and I came up against a copy of "Pyromania". We put it on his turntable,
and at some point he said: "Pretty good stuff, but too bad you can hear the drummer is missing an arm..."
Then I replied: "Oh, but he still had both of his arms on this album, you know..."

:biggrin:

The sound of the drums, mostly, is the weak point in this record IMO.

Actually it wouldn't have made any difference if he had no arms - the drums were done on a drum machine.

I agree totally that is the weak point of the record and Hysteria, they jumped to sequenced drums before they were sophisticated enough.

[Fairwrning]

A) Skid Row isnt Hair metal

B) Bon Jovi anyone?

[Fairwrning]

Perhaps I am mixing Hair with Glam

[Seshmeister]

I'm not sure what the term really means. To me it was music that came out of LA mainly in the very late 80s early 90s when there was a big drive by the record companies to sign anything that looked like Poison.

A lot of the bands had dumb names and big big hair. In parallel to this you had sleeze which were bands that stole a lot of their look from goth and played Les Pauls with a blues rock background and owed a lot to Hanoi Rocks and early Aerosmith - so bands like Faster Pussycat, LA Guns, Love/Hate, Guns N Roses. They would be the Stones to the Hair Metal Beatles. If you called one of those bands a Hair Metal band they would have hit you - literally.

By my definition and being at the center of that storm at the time I would argue at least back when it all was happening, from that list only Kix and Poison would have been called Hair Metal.

Hard rock music has always has been a crazy genre for categorizing music into a million boxes.

I just googled Hair Metal and on Yahoo it has GNR at#1 and Van Halen at #2 on the greatest Hair Metal bands of all time so it looks as though the definition has widened since back in the day...

[Satan]

This is why I never paid much attention to the corporate generated labels (glam/hair/grunge/whatever)

Music is either good, or it isn't. If it's good, listen to it. If it isn't, don't.

Or in my case, torture the damned with it. You think anybody was really buying Slaughter albums to listen to them? Half of those records were shipped directly to Hell from the factories.

[TwoFoolsAMinute]

How much hair does it take?

11590

[TwoFoolsAMinute]

http://www.on-parole.com/shop/32438-37224-thickbox/motley-crue-shout-at-the-devil-cd.jpg

[sonrisa salvaje]

I agree with you Sesh. There is no way Quiet Riot was a hair band. Let's face it, the hair band term was a negative label that came out of the grunge revolution to slam those late 80's bands. A lot of those bands deserved that label but a lot of them didn't and just got grouped in. Def Leppard and Motley Crue are prime examples. Def Leppard's first two records are hard rock classics. The same can be said for Motley. In both of these bands' cases they started out in the really early 80's. Both got more mainstream as they went along and by the late 80's had lost a lot of credibility due to pop metal hits, huge commercial success and constant play on MTV. To call them hair metal bands though? I don't get that. Whitesnake...really? They only made one record that would even fit the hairband label which was the 87 record with the ballads. You need to look at the whole body of work don't you?

[Satan]

Def Leppard wasn't a "hair band" in terms of their looks, but they helped write the blueprint for selling out with cheese ballads that all the Poison/Slaughter/transvestite bands were happy to follow. And Motley Crue heard the ballads on Pyromania and asked themselves, "How can we write a bigger, sappier, piece of shit than that?", and "Home Sweet Home" was born......

[Seshmeister]

We're close in age and Binnie is a bit younger looking back at this so maybe that's why we are seeing this differently from him.

By this new definition it does simplify things for me a bit because it means that over half the music I like is now in the one box.

Unfortunately to me it remains a pejorative term, at the time it was applied to bands who were just style over substance. As you say it was a term used against bands like Warrant, Vixen etc the bands that were basically pop bands jumping on a bandwagon for that short time when guitar rock was mainstream in the US.

Cool bands had already dropped that look by the time it became lame.

In 1987 Guns N Roses looked like this

http://www.100xr.com/artists/G/Guns_N_Roses/Guns.N.Roses-band-1987.jpg

Why? Because that was as cool as they could make themselves look in that moment in time to get themselves signed.

By the time the whole thing started to implode, the term Hair Metal was being thrown around and with the grunge thing kicking in, they would look nothing like that.

[Seshmeister]

Def Leppard wasn't a "hair band" in terms of their looks, but they helped write the blueprint for selling out with cheese ballads that all the Poison/Slaughter/transvestite bands were happy to follow. And Motley Crue heard the ballads on Pyromania and asked themselves, "How can we write a bigger, sappier, piece of shit than that?", and "Home Sweet Home" was born......

My argument is that the Hair Metal thing was later than that in 1989 onwards when shit really started to jump the shark and Crue could release a bag of vomit like 'Without You' which made Home Sweet Home look like art and it would go to #8 in the Billboard charts.

[fraroc]

Night Songs by Cinderella is among one of the greatest albums I have EVER listened to. Hell, the first track "Night Songs" is in my opinion, the greatest hair metal song I have ever listened to. It makes me want to jump on my neighbor's Harley and ride off into the sunset like the Western heroes did.

[fraroc]

We're close in age and Binnie is a bit younger looking back at this so maybe that's why we are seeing this differently from him.

By this new definition it does simplify things for me a bit because it means that over half the music I like is now in the one box.

Unfortunately to me it remains a pejorative term, at the time it was applied to bands who were just style over substance. As you say it was a term used against bands like Warrant, Vixen etc the bands that were basically pop bands jumping on a bandwagon for that short time when guitar rock was mainstream in the US.

Cool bands had already dropped that look by the time it became lame.

In 1987 Guns N Roses looked like this

http://www.100xr.com/artists/G/Guns_N_Roses/Guns.N.Roses-band-1987.jpg

Why? Because that was as cool as they could make themselves look in that moment in time to get themselves signed.

By the time the whole thing started to implode, the term Hair Metal was being thrown around and with the grunge thing kicking in, they would look nothing like that.

I wonder....If today, a new rock and roll band were to wear hats sideways, wear bling with huge dollar signs, and have their pants down to their ass but instead of rapping, their music was pure rock and roll.....would that work? Would people of this generation FINALLY start to open their eyes and discover the greatest genre of music of all time?

[Seshmeister]

The stronger/cooler you look at the time in the moment, the more stupid it looks later. :)

[Satan]

The stronger/cooler you look at the time in the moment, the more stupid it looks later. :)

Yeah... just ask the surviving members of Pantera about that.......

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ph-JWEHHdcs/Tv2piE_5DYI/AAAAAAAAJNM/d_9oGA2sbag/s1600/11096_pantera.jpg

[vandeleur]

I always laugh when I see pics of Phil like that ....

[Mushroom]

Forgotten Hair-Metal-Moments Intermission!

Exhibit 1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZfoEarv1U8

[Mushroom]

Forgotten Hair-Metal-Moments Intermission!

Exhibit 2


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e5YdJjHm7o

[Mushroom]

Forgotten Hair-Metal-Moments Intermission!

Exhibit 3


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNnTlv8NdB4

[binnie]

Night Songs by Cinderella is among one of the greatest albums I have EVER listened to.

Now, I quite like Cinderella, but that statement made me laugh really, really hard.

It's a fun record, but those songs could have been written on an etch-a-sketch :D

[binnie]

Enjoying the love for Skid Row in this thread.

I guess the term 'Hair Metal' is pejorative, but to me there's really not an awful lot of difference between Motley, Poison and Warrant in terms of musical style - it's just that Motley had more attitude and (some) better songs. The first Skid Row record was of that ilk - a little harder in places, perhaps, but the power ballads and glossy choruses place it firmly in that genre. To me, at least.

Maybe it's because (as Sesh pointed out) I wasn't there at the time so it really isn't a dirty term to me. I think in terms of good bands and bad bands, not good types of music and bad types of music.

[DLR Bridge]

If I recall, the term "hair metal" came after the fact. I don't remember ever referring to a band as such or hearing anyone else refer to a band as hair metal while it was going on. The lines have always been blurred as to who is or isn't. We've had these discussions before, and ultimately, bands get lumped in that shouldn't. I avoid the term as the appearance of long dead follicles on one's head does not define them. Additionally, virtually none of the bands in the lot are "metal".

[Seshmeister]

How much does it have to do with the hair itself?

Is it all about volume, surely Warrrior Soul aren't Hair Metal?

[Seshmeister]

I think the best hair performance in a rock video from the time has to be this.

The budget for blower fans on this must have been huge - it's better than most L'Oreal commercials... :)

[binnie]

How much does it have to do with the hair itself?

Is it all about volume, surely Warrrior Soul aren't Hair Metal?



:D

They're definitely 'metal' and they certainly had big hair, but they have feck all in common with the bands in the poll. Warrior Soul were an absolute monster of a band.

[binnie]

Additionally, virtually none of the bands in the lot are "metal".

That's a tough one, because 'metal' has changed drastically since the mid-90s. What would have been 'extreme' metal in 1985 is now the centreground.

I'd say Skid Row were a metal band, especially if you take their 2nd and 3rd records into account; I'd also say that Motley Crue were, too. By the same token, I don't think that Def Leppard have even been metal - they're a pop band with some heavy guitar (and I don't mean 'pop' to be a negative).

[Seshmeister]

That's a tough one, because 'metal' has changed drastically since the mid-90s. What would have been 'extreme' metal in 1985 is now the centreground.



More's the pity. :)

[binnie]

If it's too loud, you're too old :D

[78/84 guy]

Enjoying the love for Skid Row in this thread.

I guess the term 'Hair Metal' is pejorative, but to me there's really not an awful lot of difference between Motley, Poison and Warrant in terms of musical style - it's just that Motley had more attitude and (some) better songs. The first Skid Row record was of that ilk - a little harder in places, perhaps, but the power ballads and glossy choruses place it firmly in that genre. To me, at least.

Maybe it's because (as Sesh pointed out) I wasn't there at the time so it really isn't a dirty term to me. I think in terms of good bands and bad bands, not good types of music and bad types of music.

There was no difference because all they are is rock bands. Hair metal. Give me a fucking break ! The only metal bands around in the 80's were the different versions of Sabbath, Maiden and Priest. It's such bullshit. Like someone else said the term didn't even exist until grunge showed up. Hair rock bands ? Sure I can live with that. I would still say it started with the 1st Poison record. Maybe not so much the hair because guys were already doing that, but the whole image with the bright colors and crazy outfits started with them. If there were any bands that were before them it was Ratt and the Crue. I sometimes think our guys started it with the 1984 album. Not so much the look but the videos and the songs on it overall were more on the pop side to a degree. Hot For Teacher, Jump, Panama ect.. Kind of a blueprint of what was too come. Dave sure went out of his why too dress like that on his first 2 tours. Skyscraper for sure. Bottom line is if you like those bands because they had good songs it's not a crime to listen to them 20 years later just because they wore big hair and spandex. It was the look of the time. Who gives a shit. There's a reason why it was a decade of huge album sales. There was a lot of good songs and albums.

[VetteLS5]

Would people of this generation FINALLY start to open their eyes and discover the greatest genre of music of all time?

Show tunes?

[DLR Bridge]

Well put 78. Another term that I hate is cock rock. WTF is that even supposed to mean? VH has been labeled that before, and I've always assumed it was a shot at Dave for shoving his junk in the camera (see beloved Oakland videos).

I break it all down into four basic food groups:

Pop Rock (Poison)
Hard Rock (Van Halen)
Heavy Metal (Metallica)
Death Metal (Cannibal Corpse)

[binnie]

The only metal bands around in the 80's were the different versions of Sabbath, Maiden and Priest.

I'd say metal was very buoyant in the '80s. What about thrash metal, the emerging death, power and black metal scenes, not to mention doom bands like Saint Vitus and Pentagram? I agree that terms are frustrating, but I do think that the 'hair' bands held together fairly well. Much better than those who fell under the label 'grunge', for instance - what on earth did Nirvana and Pearl Jam have in common?

[binnie]

Well put 78. Another term that I hate is cock rock. WTF is that even supposed to mean? VH has been labeled that before, and I've always assumed it was a shot at Dave for shoving his junk in the camera (see beloved Oakland videos).

I break it all down into four basic food groups:

Pop Rock (Poison)
Hard Rock (Van Halen)
Heavy Metal (Metallica)
Death Metal (Cannibal Corpse)

I think that 'cock rock' and 'sleaze' are interchangeable terms.

'Pop Metal' is surely just 'Hair Metal'?

Agree with your terms for the most part, but in the '80s Metallica would fall under 'Thrash'. Maiden/Priest/Ozzy would be 'Heavy Metal' (now often called 'Trad Metal'. Helloween started 'Power Metal'. It's all blurred, but labels can be helpful...........

[vandeleur]

Plaid shirts :D

[chefcraig]

I really didn't think that Cinderella would be winning this poll.....

Now, I quite like Cinderella, but that statement made me laugh really, really hard.

It's a fun record, but those songs could have been written on an etch-a-sketch :D

True enough, yet the main reason I voted for it was that the follow-up (and ultimately superior) album Long Cold Winter wasn't listed. (Get around that logic? Cool, it proves you fried about as many brain cells as I did during the 1980s.)

Besides, legend has it that the late yet still awesome Cozy Powell played drums on a couple of tracks.

[binnie]

Long Cold Winter did rule. I also quite enjoyed the third record (memory lapse - Heartbreak Station?).

I've heard rave reviews about Tom Keifer's solo record from last year.......

[vandeleur]

Not a huge Cinderella fan by any stretch but bad seamstress blues still sounds pretty cool today

[binnie]

'Faaaaaaaaalin',

Fallin' apart at da seeeeeeeams'

:D

[chefcraig]

Plaid shirts :D

There are only two guys on the entire fucking planet that should be allowed upon a stage wearing flannel to blast your eardrums and brain with a guitar:

1. Rory Gallagher
2. Neil Young

Yup, it's a fairly short list, and everyone else is merely posing. :rockit2:

[binnie]

'Some fast talkin' moma for a dollar put a smile on my face.......' :D

[chefcraig]

'Some fast talkin' moma for a dollar put a smile on my face.......' :D

"Gypsy Road" has one of those dumb-as-a-box-of-hammers riffs that stand proudly in my top ten list of favorite guitar tunes ever. And speaking of ideas for a "list" thread...

[binnie]

And speaking of ideas for a "list" thread...

Indeed. :D

[binnie]

I really thought that Motley or Ratt were going to walk this thread...........

[Seshmeister]

I'd say metal was very buoyant in the '80s. What about thrash metal, the emerging death, power and black metal scenes, not to mention doom bands like Saint Vitus and Pentagram? I agree that terms are frustrating, but I do think that the 'hair' bands held together fairly well. Much better than those who fell under the label 'grunge', for instance - what on earth did Nirvana and Pearl Jam have in common?

The noisy tuneless crap that used to just be called thrash is the worst for having dozens of unnecessary sub genres.

Sometimes I'm talking to someone these days and realise not only have I not heard of the band he's in/talking about, I haven't even heard of the genre.

Atonal shouting metal would cover it all.

[Seshmeister]

I really thought that Motley or Ratt were going to walk this thread...........

People who like them don't accept your terminology. :baaa:

[Seshmeister]

:D

They're definitely 'metal' and they certainly had big hair, but they have feck all in common with the bands in the poll. Warrior Soul were an absolute monster of a band.

I went drinking with Kory Clarke last year and I have to say for quite a wee guy he was impressive.

He knocked me into blackout mode for a while... :)

[binnie]

The noisy tuneless crap that used to just be called thrash is the worst for that.

Sometimes I'm talking to someone these days and realise not only have I not heard of the band he's in/talking about, I haven't even heard of the genre. :)

Well, you know that I love all of that stuff :D

I get why people don't like it, but calling it 'tuneless' makes as much sense to me as calling Vai 'soulless' (as we discussed in the previous thread). It reminds me of people I went to school with who used to look at me with incredulity and then say: 'You can't dance to this!' Mmmmm, not sure that dancing was what Napalm Death were trying to achieve! To me, that type of music deals with social commentary (a la punk at its best) or some kind of anger/trauma. Some folks won't like that in music, and that's fine. But the idea that it's not valid seems strange to me: if someone writes a novel, poem, playing or film about those themes then they're an artist; do it in music and you're a moron. I've never quite understood that.

As for genre labels, how about some of these for size: melodic Death Metal, metalcore, deathcore, mathcore (it's a real thing!), post-rock, progressive metal, djent, it goes on............

[Seshmeister]

I was just looking through a list, there are dozens.

I think I may look out some 'Melodic Metalcore' to see if I like it. :D

[binnie]

I went drinking with Kory Clarke last year and I have to say for quite a wee guy he was impressive.

He knocked me into blackout mode for a while... :)

You have no idea how jealous I am! I would kill to meet Kory Clarke.

I haven't written a Warrior Soul review yet because I just can't find the sentences to express what some of those early records mean to me...........

[vandeleur]

I went drinking with Kory Clarke last year and I have to say for quite a wee guy he was impressive.

He knocked me into blackout mode for a while... :)

Hobbyist name dropper :D

[binnie]

I was just looking through a list, there are dozens.

I think I may look out some 'Melodic Metalcore' to see if I like it. :D

I you want to check out a metalcore band, you may aswell go for the best, Killswitch Engage (the band who started it). 'The End of Heartache', 'Disarm The Dissent' and 'Alive Or just Breathing' are their best records. You'll hear thrash in there, but the choruses are all very, very melodic.

[Seshmeister]

You have no idea how jealous I am! I would kill to meet Kory Clarke.

I haven't written a Warrior Soul review yet because I just can't find the sentences to express what some of those early records mean to me...........

It's funny they really have a bunch of people who absolutely love them but their crowds seem to be falling each year.

I was never a big fan which is probably why we got on. I was with him in a club for about 3 hours mainly just the two of us but I can't remember much about what we discussed apart from a lot of laughing. :)

[Seshmeister]

Hobbyist name topper :D

I so nearly made that same joke except that I was a hobbyist drinker compared to him being a professional... :)

[vandeleur]

Would have been better could I spell , still pretty cool tho

[chefcraig]

...But the idea that it's not valid seems strange to me: if someone writes a novel, poem, playing or film about those themes then they're an artist; do it in music and you're a moron. I've never quite understood that.

As for genre labels, how about some of these for size: melodic Death Metal, metalcore, deathcore, mathcore (it's a real thing!), post-rock, progressive metal, djent, it goes on............

The thing is about labeling anything, be it a movie, a supermarket purchase of food stuff, a religion or race is that it makes it easy for the "consumer" to outright dismiss it over what comes down to outright snobbery (and in some cases, outright bigotry).

I'm split in half over the concept. When I think of death metal, I think of great, jamming instrumentation undercut by "Sesame Street Cookie Monster" vocals. Sorry, but the effect makes it difficult for me to take it seriously. On the other hand, I'll sing along with joy over the most inane hits from the late 1960s/mid 1970s AM radio schlock.

I dunno...it's all music to me, something that is unworthy of categorizing. Then again, it sure does make things easier when one goes shopping. http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/thinking-smileys/think_smiley_10.gif (http://www.4smileys.com)

[Seshmeister]

It's not all about lyrics whatever they pretend they are in death metal.

'Everybody wants some', is not a lyric that is going to greatly add to my understanding of life and the world around me.

My problem with that stuff is the lack of a vocal melody. A lot of the music is dull too, if you play fast then you have nowhere to go and rhythmically you're trapped too.

[chefcraig]

It's not all about lyrics whatever they pretend they are in death metal.

'Everybody wants some', is not a lyric that is going to greatly add to my understanding of life and the world around me.

My problem with that stuff is the lack of a vocal melody. A lot of the music is dull too, if you play fast then you have nowhere to go and rhythmically you're trapped too.

I must say, I have found more transcendence in the lyrics to "Everybody Wants Some" than I will ever find in some numbnuts swallowing a bunch of Brillo pads then growling words like Dark Lord, behemoth, Armageddon, Underworld...
I mean seriously, doesn't this seem downright insightful and inspiring by comparison? :lol:


"Everybody Wants Some!!"


You can't get romantic on a subway line.
Conductor don't like it, says you're wastin' your time.
But ev'rybody wants some.
I want some too.
Ev'rybody wants some.
Baby, how 'bout you?
I seen a lotta people lookin' for a moonbeam.
Yeah, ya spent a lot. Ya got lost in the jet-stream.
But ev'rybody wants some.
I want some too.
Ev'rybody wants some.
Baby, how 'bout you?
I like the way the line runs up the back of the stockings.
I've always liked those kind of high heels too. You know, I...
No no no no, don't take 'em off, don't take... Leave 'em on, leave 'em on.
Yeah, that's it, a little more to the right, a little more....
Ev'rybody wants some.
I want some too.
Ev'rybody wants some.
Baby, how 'bout you?
Ev'rybody wants some.
Ev'rybody needs some.
Ev'rybody wants some.
Ev'rybody needs some.

[DlocRoth]

There are only two guys on the entire fucking planet that should be allowed upon a stage wearing flannel to blast your eardrums and brain with a guitar:

1. Rory Gallagher
2. Neil Young

Yup, it's a fairly short list, and everyone else is merely posing. :rockit2:

With all due respect, you forgot Fogerty.:thumb:

[chefcraig]

With all due respect, you forgot Fogerty.:thumb:

Man, great point. :thumb:

[DlocRoth]

Man, great point. :thumb:

I mean... Is there any better feeling than when one finds a really great live boot of "Midnight Special"?:amen:

Let's all turn THAT shit up to 11!!

[binnie]

A lot of the music is dull too, if you play fast then you have nowhere to go and rhythmically you're trapped too.

Well, 'dull' is subjective. It's certainly incredibly complex - crazy time signatures and arrangements. There are some Death Metal riffs that are just mental.

If you want rhythm, check out some Meshuggah. Or Gojira (possibly the best metal band in the world at the moment. And the lyrics are very thoughtful, too).

[binnie]

Wow, we've gone three pages and no-one has had an bitch-fest. I knew we could do it...........

:D

[binnie]

I mean... Is there any better feeling than when one finds a really great live boot of "Midnight Special"?:amen:

Let's all turn THAT shit up to 11!!

I'd say getting a BJ from Penelope Cruz would be a better feeling, but I take your point. :D

[Satan]

I mean... Is there any better feeling than when one finds a really great live boot of "Midnight Special"?:amen:

Let's all turn THAT shit up to 11!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6NmHEFB2n8

[binnie]

There's something very 'Metal' about getting thanks from Satan :D

[tojoro]

Out of the Cellar gets my vote. I was a junior in 1984, and this album ate up lots of battery life on the boombox, and many spins on the turntable back home.
Imo, Ratt were the better band from the first wave of groups that came out of the Strip, post VH. It was a nice surprise for "I'm Insane" to pop up in 'The Wrestler'. An obscure choice, but an excellent one that shows that even the tunes that don't make the radio can still garner attention, three decades after the fact.
To muddy the waters further, I would remove Whitesnake and Def Leppard from the list, as I consider the Hair Metal genre to be an American phenomenon. Though, the Def Leppard who gave us Pyromania were a different bunch from the Lep who cranked out High 'n Dry, so it does make sense that it's here, as does Whitesnake, considering Coverdale's Stateside influences.
On the other hand, Ronnie James Dio was an American singer who mostly sought the sound and talent of European players.
In another list, I would include W.A.S.P.'s debut and Dokken's Tooth and Nail, as the rest of the bands from their "class" are choices.

~T.

[binnie]

I deliberately ommitted Dokken from the poll because they were, in my opinion, a mediocre band with a sensational guitar player.

[DlocRoth]

I'd say getting a BJ from Penelope Cruz would be a better feeling, but I take your point. :D

No, you're correct.

I misspoke.:doh::first:

[binnie]

Thinking about Penelope Cruz now, I have The Bulletboys 'Hard As A Rock' in my head. :D

[DlocRoth]

Thinking about Penelope Cruz now, I have The Bulletboys 'Hard As A Rock' in my head. :D

In keeping true to the thread.....

I'm thinking Whitesnake......Slide it in...:clap:

[chefcraig]

I mean... Is there any better feeling than when one finds a really great live boot of "Midnight Special"?:amen:

Let's all turn THAT shit up to 11!!

Funny you'd mention that. About two weeks ago, a copy of the following showed up in our donations batch. I applied a buck or so to the basket, and now hold ownership. Talk about yer rare finds...




http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/39/asyl.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/13asylj)

[DlocRoth]

Thats fucking sweet...

I'm not into derailing threads, but CCR is just the plain ol' shit..

It humps your rope.

[DlocRoth]

And on an unrelated note....

I see a few of us are having a rather slow work day.:biggrin:

[78/84 guy]

Wow, we've gone three pages and no-one has had an bitch-fest. I knew we could do it...........

:D

Krusty must be on her back somewhere ! Give her time.

[sonrisa salvaje]

The noisy tuneless crap that used to just be called thrash is the worst for having dozens of unnecessary sub genres.

Sometimes I'm talking to someone these days and realise not only have I not heard of the band he's in/talking about, I haven't even heard of the genre.

Atonal shouting metal would cover it all.

I remember when Ride the Lightning came out and was starting to get played. It was called Speed Metal at that time. Funny how you never hear that term anymore. It is hiding in a vault somewhere with the word "poser".

[binnie]

I think 'Speed Metal' was a term favoured by some of the thrash bands because they thought that 'thrash' denigrated their talents. It didn't last long......

[sonrisa salvaje]

Another band that was completely metal in the 80's was Accept. They don't fall into any category except that. In my mind Dokken were better than an average band. IMO, Tooth and Nail and Under Lock and Key were right up there. I know Don Dokken's voice gets slammed but his voice was better than Vince Neil's and Stephen Pearcy's who were his main competition. Now was the music better? Probably not better than Ratt because Out of the Cellar and Invasion of Your Privacy were both classics. Dokken's guitar was too hard to be hair metal. The same can be said for Ratt and they weren't really trying to be pretty boys until after Out of the Cellar. Early on they just looked like they crawled out of a gutter. To me hair metal were the bands that were put together solely for their appearance, paid no dues, had no musical merit and were instantly spot lighted by MTV.

[binnie]

Another band that was completely metal in the 80's was Accept. They don't fall into any category except that. In my mind Dokken were better than an average band. IMO, Tooth and Nail and Under Lock and Key were right up there. I know Don Dokken's voice gets slammed but his voice was better than Vince Neil's and Stephen Pearcy's who were his main competition.

I just don't hear what you're hearing with Dokken's voice - it sounds cardboard thin and pretty characterless to me. Moreover, I'd say that songs were often leaden and plodding. Each to their own, but to these ears there were plenty of '80s bands more impressive than Dokken, guitar histrionics or not........

[Dave's Bitch]

Shout at the devil

[Satan]

Shout at the devil

I never understood what that was all about....

Why did they need to shout? I'm not deaf, for Hell's sake!

[Mr. Vengeance]

Long Cold Winter did rule. I also quite enjoyed the third record (memory lapse - Heartbreak Station?).

I've heard rave reviews about Tom Keifer's solo record from last year.......

His solo album was quite good. His voice is a little different. I guess he had some troubles with his vocal chords or something, (big shock) and he tends to put less strain on them on his solo album.

[Seshmeister]

Each to their own, but to these ears there were plenty of '80s bands more impressive than Dokken, guitar histrionics or not........

That's arguable but Kix?

[tojoro]

Don did have a good singing voice, although, his scream had a harsh-whisper quality I wasn't big on. His lyrics weren't much fun, either, but, the Scorpions did feel Don was good enough to work for them during the recording of Blackout, while Klaus was rehabbing his voice...guide vox for the band, and backups on album, I believe?

[Seshmeister]

Don Dokken is by all accounts a bit of a difficult chap but however you spin it this is a great song and very possibly better than anything achieved by the people on Binnie's list...

[binnie]

It's really not better than the best material by Skid Row, Crue or Whitesnake. Much as I like the song, I'm not sure that there was anything particularly special about Dokken other than George Lynch.

[DLR Bridge]

That's arguable but Kix?

I enjoyed Kix for a time in high school. They were fun, but I have no idea how they didn't get their asses sued of by AC/DC. Holy riff-lifting Batman!

[Seshmeister]

Don Dokken is by all accounts a bit of a difficult chap but however you spin it this is a great song and very possibly better than anything achieved by the people on Binnie's list...


Apologies it was late and I was a little refreshed... :)

[Mr. Vengeance]

I liked Dokken. Particularly Lynch. The sum of their parts made for good music, even if Don was a douche.

[Mr. Vengeance]

Ahhhh, the good old 80's. A good time for metal/hard rock. I remember going to the record stores every Tuesday to see what was new and the metal section would be filled with new stuff every week. Now I'm lucky if an album I want to buy comes out every 4 months.

[cadaverdog]

This is why I never paid much attention to the corporate generated labels (glam/hair/grunge/whatever)

Music is either good, or it isn't. If it's good, listen to it. If it isn't, don't.


I agree but I don't believe certain genres of music like disco,rap and hip hop (whatever the fuck that is) should fall under the category of rock and roll nor do musicians from those genres belong in the rock and roll hall of fame. Let them start their own halls of fame like The Grand Ole Opry. Country's more rock and roll than rap and there's no country stars in the r + r hall of fame. At least I don't think there is.

[chefcraig]

I agree but I don't believe certain genres of music like disco,rap and hip hop (whatever the fuck that is) should fall under the category of rock and roll nor do musicians from those genres belong in the rock and roll hall of fame. Let them start their own halls of fame like The Grand Ole Opry. Country's more rock and roll than rap and there's no country stars in the r + r hall of fame. At least I don't think there is.

It speaks volumes when you consider Guns&Roses are in the RRHOF, and Buck Owens and The Buckaroos are not. No, I'm not kidding. Hell, Merle Haggard played in that band, and they sure as hell had a farther reaching influence on many genres of music than a second generation Alice Cooper/Aerosmith cover band ever did.

[FORD]

Well.... I don't know how this mutated into a discussion on the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame, but I would have to agree that Buck Owens and Merle Haggard should be there before Chic, Donna Summer, or Grandmaster Flash.

They ain't rock and roll, but at least they played fucking guitars. (Yeah, OK... Chic had some actual musicians involved, but disco still sucks)

And there are certainly enough legitimate rock bands out there who have covered Owens & Haggard material......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbBqo87MWzg

[ELVIS]

I'm not sure that there was anything particularly special about Dokken other than George Lynch.

I wouldn't even go that far...

Lynch is a good dime a dozen guitar player...

Nothing more, nothing special...


:elvis:

[ELVIS]

however you spin it this is a great song

Hahahahaha...:biggrin:

That, my friend, is CHEEEEEEEESE !!!!!


:biggrin:

[cadaverdog]

I voted for Cinderella because Tesla wasn't one of the choices. When I think Hair I think Poison, Warrant and Ratt.

[FORD]

To this day, the only Tesla album I own is the unplugged album. But the fact that they were able to start that trend (or more accurately, restart it, since the Dead was doing that in 1970) proves that they had potential...... never commercially realized because they weren't "pretty" enough to make it in the transvestite hair band scene.

To be honest though, their "Love Song" was pretty goddamn sappy though, so they were as guilty of the cheese ballad thing as most of their contemporaries. At least their other material made up for it, though a lot of it was cover songs...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV5py6_FC0c

[sonrisa salvaje]

That Five Man Acoustic Jam was kind of lettdown for me versus the strength of their studio records. Wasn't it the GNR Lies record that started all that acoustic stuff?

[sonrisa salvaje]

I wouldn't even go that far...

Lynch is a good dime a dozen guitar player...

Nothing more, nothing special...


:elvis:

Come on E....Lynch was above average. Ozzy almost hired the guy didn't he?

[ELVIS]

I said he was good...

Good is above average...


;)

[FORD]

From what I remember, "Lies" only had two songs on it that were actually acoustic. Though the band did play some acoustic shows in 87/88 and could have released those as a live album, if they had wanted to. (I'm guessing the record label vetoed that idea, as the performances were probably considered too "sloppy" for an official release. Though they have been bootlegged in both audio and video form)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S4mDZfaw9w

[sonrisa salvaje]

No you're right to a degree. The first side had 3 or 4 acoustic songs and then the other had normal live performances which were covers. I think Mama Kin was one of them. I can remember 3 of the acoustic numbers...Patience, I Used to Love Her (But i Had to Kill Her) and One in a Million. Maybe there wasn't a fourth. Anyway, it seemed like GNR had the big acoustic hit with Patience first and then the flood gates opened. MTV of course jumped on the band wagon with the unplugged thing.

[chefcraig]

That Five Man Acoustic Jam was kind of lettdown for me versus the strength of their studio records. Wasn't it the GNR Lies record that started all that acoustic stuff?

I remember reading somewhere the inspiration came from an acoustic performance by Jon Bon Jovi and Ritchie Sombrero (or whatever) on some dippy awards show.

[ELVIS]

It's Samboring...

[FORD]

Bon Jovi always likes to credit themselves for far too much, and the record corporations are happy to let them get away with it. But as I said, the Dead was doing it in 1970, and released a live acoustic album in 1980.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m7aqU5DfvU

[sonrisa salvaje]

I remember reading somewhere the inspiration came from an acoustic performance by Jon Bon Jovi and Ritchie Sombrero (or whatever) on some dippy awards show.

Wanted Dead or Alive no doubt.

[tojoro]

Come on E....Lynch was above average. Ozzy almost hired the guy didn't he?

True. It came down to George and Jake.

[tojoro]

I said he was good...

Good is above average...


;)

Compared to Mick Mars, CC Deville and Carlos Cavazo, though?

[ELVIS]

I suppose you have a point...;)

But I do like some of Mick Mars work on the first two albums...

Mars is not not technically brilliant or anything, but he came up with some catchy stuff...

[tojoro]

Agreed! Too Fast For Love was great, and Shout had much going for it, but the decline that followed was swift.

[ELVIS]

I'd say more like immediate...

And Dokken was part of the decline...

They don't have a single song that kicks ass like Take Me To The Top...

I can hardly think of a George Lynch riff...

[sonrisa salvaje]

I'd say more like immediate...

And Dokken was part of the decline...

They don't have a single song that kicks ass like Take Me To The Top...

I can hardly think of a George Lynch riff...

Seriously? Unchain the Night, It's Not Love, Kiss of Death...just off the top of my head. What is it you don't like about those songs?

[78/84 guy]

Seriously? Unchain the Night, It's Not Love, Kiss of Death...just off the top of my head. What is it you don't like about those songs?

I agree. Didn't love Don's voice but they were a good band with a lot of good tunes.

[ELVIS]

Mediocre is what comes to my mind...

Lynch's augmented minor key riffs were always an uncomfortable counterpoint to Don's straight, wimpy, and totally white bread "singing"...

Or vice versa...

It kinda worked on a few songs, but overall, it was, and still is... lame...

[78/84 guy]

Mediocre is what comes to my mind...

Lynch's augmented minor key riffs were always an uncomfortable counterpoint to Don's straight, wimpy, and totally white bread "singing"...

Or vice versa...

It kinda worked on a few songs, but overall, it was, and still is... lame...

I don't have time too worry about who wrote what. If I like a song I like a song. Don't give a shit if it's by Jackson brown, Zeppelin or Tom T. Hall ! I Like Beer !!! Doesn't mean I love everything that they came up with. I do go out of my way to hate Prince though ! Asshole !