Botched Execution????

[lesfunk]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/04/29/oklahoma-execution-botched-inmate-still-dies-second-execution-delayed/

He's dead isn't he? sounds like success

[Nitro Express]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/04/29/oklahoma-execution-botched-inmate-still-dies-second-execution-delayed/

He's dead isn't he? sounds like success

Nothing new. Sometimes the hangman fucked up and made the drop too far and the head came off or he didn't stretch the rope out enough and/or the drop was too short and the neck didn't break clean. The guillotine is pretty much the way to go. See. Everyone is trying to make a better mouse trap when the problem was solved a long time ago.

[FORD]

Fucking red states..... can't even get official state murder right...... :rolleyes:

[lesfunk]

They got it right. They killed him. That's the main point.
It just took a little longer to execute than originally planned.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Nah, I disagree....

Textbook definition of Cruel and Unusual Punishment, also known as the Eighth Amendment.....

Last time I checked we're ALL supposed to be afforded ALL of those rights....

So when some people vent about Clive Bundy's First Amendment rights after hearing his racist views....

Or gun nuts with their Second Amendment rights.....

Then you MUST also say that a black man on death row in Oklahoma has the right against Cruel and Unusual Punishment in accordance with the Eighth Amendment.....

[Nickdfresh]

They got it right. They killed him. That's the main point.
It just took a little longer to execute than originally planned.

And violated the Eighth Amendment against cruel and unusual punishment. I wonder where the libertarians are here? The conspiracy shitheads like Elvis? They run around the "evil U.S. guberment" threads and wanker on about the Constitution and get all jerked off and worked up over the Ukraine, but seem to ignore facts like when black people are torture killed by their state governments...

[Nickdfresh]

Nah, I disagree....

Textbook definition of Cruel and Unusual Punishment, also known as the Eighth Amendment.....

Last time I checked we're ALL supposed to be afforded ALL of those rights....

So when some people vent about Clive Bundy's First Amendment rights after hearing his racist views....

Or gun nuts with their Second Amendment rights.....

Then you MUST also say that a black man on death row in Oklahoma has the right against Cruel and Unusual Punishment in accordance with the Eighth Amendment.....

Fucking aye! You posted two minutes before me...

[kwame k]

They have an annoying habit of cherry picking the Constitution but they have years of experience doing so.......just look at what they do with the bible!

[lesfunk]

Ok guys... Obvious point taken. But a dead scumbag/ murderer/ rapist is still a dead scumbag /murderer/ rapist... I don't care if he was White, Black , or Brown, or Yellow. They could have just shot him in the head. Done

[FORD]

I don't know why they have to make things so damn complicated with these poison cocktail needle machines anyway. If you're going to kill somebody with a needle, just call up Poppy Bush, put in an order for some pure uncut heroin, load up the needle and do it. What could be simpler than that?

[Kristy]

Fucking red states..... can't even get official state murder right...... :rolleyes:

Not just any red state. This is Oklahoma a red state with a racist governor who raised an even more racist, disgusting daughter.

[Kristy]

I wonder where the libertarians are here? The conspiracy shitheads like Elvis?

Gee, where do you think he is, Nick? If you said waiting for his neighbor to go to work so he can steal his cable to pirate Alex Jone$ into telling him what to think and then posting that shit here then you would be correct.

Well, that or seeing his social worker.

[DLR Bridge]

"Lockett was convicted of shooting a teenager and watching as she was buried alive; Warner was convicted of raping and murdering his girlfriend’s 11-month-old baby."

I guess this makes me more of an eye for an eye person, because if ever there were a time to "accidentally" subject a human to some cruel and unusual punishment, it would be for the processing of Mr. Lockett and Mr. Warner.

[ODShowtime]

I have no problem with executing vile criminals but I don't trust the government to accurately convict such criminals.

[Von Halen]

8th amendment? Did he exercise his victims 8th amendment rights when he shot her and then buried her alive?

I hope he died very slowly, and very painfully.

And I don't give a fuck what color he was.

[ashstralia]

Our last execution was 1967, by hanging.
I can think of at least a dozen people found guilty of horrific crimes since then, whose very existence in protected custody surely causes the families ongoing grief.

I'm conflicted, but firing squad seems fair.

[DrMaddVibe]

He was born to die.

[vandeleur]

I disagree with the death penalty on a vaguely moral
Stand point but I am conscious that on occasions where people commit these terrible crimes they then try and kill themselves indicating they would rather die than face the repercussions . This makes me more inclined to make these sorts face the repercussions .

As a uk citizen who had a close friend in prison and had the misfortune of having to visit him am not sure what USA prisons are like but it's fucking horrendous ... Grim doesn't cover it .
So I might be swayed to how horrendous a life of glass in my food piss in my drinks and new shit stains into clothes every time they came back from the laundry is . If that was my fate i would take the injection any day .

But am big soft shite :D

[ELVIS]

Fucking aye! You posted two minutes before me...

Guess he's two minutes sharper that you, eh dickforbrains ??

[Seshmeister]

I have no problem with executing vile criminals but I don't trust the government to accurately convict such criminals.

Exactly, I don't trust and love my government enough to give it the power to execute citizens...

[ELVIS]

Not even if the government claimed they were TERRORISTS ?!??

[Va Beach VH Fan]

8th amendment? Did he exercise his victims 8th amendment rights when he shot her and then buried her alive?

I hope he died very slowly, and very painfully.

And I don't give a fuck what color he was.


I'm not anti-death penalty in its current carnation, Von....

Because as Dennis Miller said in one of his acts before he went all Foxy, "there are just some evil motherfuckers out there".....

However, IMO, there's a big difference between putting the guy to sleep then the lethal injection, and using an incorrect mix of chemicals so that his vein explodes and eventually results in him having a heart attack to die.....

[ELVIS]

Because as Dennis Miller said...

I wouldn't preface my wisdom with that...;)

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I wouldn't preface my wisdom with that...;)


I did say it was before his Fox days....

[jacksmar]

8th amendment? Did he exercise his victims 8th amendment rights when he shot her and then buried her alive?

I hope he died very slowly, and very painfully.

And I don't give a fuck what color he was.

Agreed. It's only cruel and usual if you repair his heart, resuscitate him, and then kill the piece of shit again in the same fashion.

The only thing botched was they didn't off piece of shit #2.

[ODShowtime]

There should be some standard of evidence to have the death penalty. And then they should get a timely and fair appeal and then WRAP IT UP. Hangings seem like they were cheap and effective. Firing squads don't cost much either.

[Seshmeister]

There should be some standard of evidence to have the death penalty. And then they should get a timely and fair appeal and then WRAP IT UP. Hangings seem like they were cheap and effective. Firing squads don't cost much either.

Executing people in the US costs a lot more than locking them up until they die because of the legal costs.

[Seshmeister]

Not even if the government claimed they were TERRORISTS ?!??

Even less so.

It's fucking unbelievable that Obama, a democrat fucking constitutional lawyer of all things, sits down and decides who he will execute by drone plus whoever happens to be nearby at the time.

It shows how astonishingly fucked up the US is at this point and makes you wonder how bad it's going to get when black jesus is replaced by someone even worse...

[FORD]

It shows how astonishingly fucked up the US is at this point and makes you wonder how bad it's going to get when black jesus is replaced by someone even worse...

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/img/eb98/JJ/3961l.jpg

And, mind you, that's currently the "best" option, at least among candidates mentioned in the corporate media. :puke:

[ELVIS]

Even less so.

It's fucking unbelievable that Obama, a democrat fucking constitutional lawyer of all things, sits down and decides who he will execute by drone plus whoever happens to be nearby at the time.

It shows how astonishingly fucked up the US is at this point and makes you wonder how bad it's going to get when black jesus is replaced by someone even worse...

Just making sure...;)

[ELVIS]

And, mind you, that's currently the "best" option...

Yeah riight...

[Seshmeister]

There are some women in politics that respond to the prevailing misanthropic atmosphere of rich white men by trying to out hawk them.

Thatcher was one and Hillary appears to be another...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/04/22/us-usa-politics-iran-idUSN2224332720080422

[DrMaddVibe]

Ever wish he'd just STFU and stop putting himself in situations that a real leader wouldn't invite? The list goes on and on an on with this clown, but this one...seriously...he needs to STFU.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yARfDQMiKJE


PERRY - Three men accused of killing one of four people kidnapped during an aborted robbery attempt were charged Monday with 14 felony counts apiece.


Bond was denied for the three, who face charges of first-degree murder, rape, forcible sodomy, kidnapping, assault and battery, burglary and robbery.

Clayton Derrell Lockett, 23, and Alfonzo Laron Veasey Lockett, 17, both of Ponca City, and Shawn C. Mathis, 26, of Enid, also were charged with conspiracy to commit the crimes. The Locketts are cousins.

George Lockett Sr., Alfonzo Lockett's father, said his son and his nephew told him that Clayton Lockett shot and killed Stephanie Michelle Neiman, 18, who graduated last month from Perry High School. They also told him that Clayton Lockett forced the two others to take part in the crimes, Lockett told The Oklahoman .

George Lockett said Clayton Lockett told him "Alfonzo had no involvement in it and that he did everything."

George Lockett, who said he allowed Clayton Lockett to live with him after the nephew's release from prison in September, said Alfonzo Lockett made a bad decision in leaving with his older cousin.

Authorities said the crime spree started when Clayton Lockett drove the younger Lockett and Mathis to the Perry home of Bobby Lee Bornt, 23. Bornt owed Clayton Lockett money.

Bornt was tied up and beaten, authorities said. His 9-month-old son was in the house.

During the assault, Neiman and an 18-year-old friend stopped by Bornt's house, authorities said.

"It was bad timing," Perry police Lt. David Farrow said.

Neiman's female friend told authorities she was pulled into the house and hit in the face with a shotgun. With a gun at her head, she was forced to call Neiman inside, police were told.
Neiman also was hit with the shotgun and suffered a cut near her left eye, police were told.

"That was when the stuff really started getting out of hand," George Lockett said.The young women were bound with duct tape. Neiman's friend was raped by all three men, authorities said.

Bornt and his son and the two women then were driven to rural Kay County, police said. Clayton Lockett told the captives he was going to kill them all, the surviving victims said.

Clayton Lockett told Neiman to get out of her pickup, and he shot her twice when she failed to give him her keys and the alarm code for the pickup, police were told.

Mathis told police he dug a grave for Neiman and buried her with Alfonzo Lockett's help.

The rape victim and Bornt told police they and Bornt's son then were brought back to Bornt's home.

The three men left in Bornt's pickup. The car Clayton Lockett drove to Perry apparently was stolen and was impounded by police when officers spotted it parked outside Bornt's duplex.

Jasper Lockett, 16, said his brother Alfonzo told him that Clayton Lockett threatened to kill him and Mathis if they went to police.

Police said Mathis and Alfonzo Lockett admitted they took part in the assault on Bornt and helped tie up the two women and drive them to rural Kay County.

Alfonzo Lockett showed authorities where Neiman was buried. Her mouth still was bound with duct tape, according to court records.

Clayton Lockett was released from prison last August. He was sentenced to four years in prison after pleading guilty in 1996 in Kay County to a charge of conspiracy to commit embezzlement.

In 1992, he pleaded guilty in Kay County to burglary and knowingly concealing stolen property. He received a seven-year prison sentence. Earlier that year, he pleaded no contest to two counts of intimidating state witnesses.

Jasper Lockett said Clayton Lockett picked up his brother Thursday night to take him to an Enid nightspot. He said he tried to tell Alfonzo, who recently was released from a juvenile detention center, not to go.

"He didn't leave with the purpose to kill somebody," Jasper Lockett said. "He said if they knew they were going to do that, he wouldn't have left. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was a bad choice."

http://newsok.com/three-face-charges-in-perry-crime-spree/article/2656291/?page=2

[DrMaddVibe]

There are some women in politics that respond to the prevailing misanthropic atmosphere of rich white men by trying to out hawk them.

Thatcher was one and Hillary appears to be another...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/04/22/us-usa-politics-iran-idUSN2224332720080422


I'd buy Thatcher each and every day, but Hillary? No.

She's an opportunist that hitched her wagon to the wrong man, and despite his deviant sexual appetites...she was that "stand by her man" woman she told all of us she wasn't. She's no victim either. She's a willing participant and her role in the gun running escapade over in Bhengazi...I hope she goes to prison, because it DOES MATTER. She's drunk with power and deserves a jail cell!

[vandeleur]

I'd bury Thatcher each and every day,

Sorry couldn't resist ... Hate the woman :D

[ELVIS]

She's drunk with power and deserves a jail cell!

Yet she's a front runner for the Presidency...

Appalling, isn't it ??

[Satan]

Yeah riight...

Well, who else is your mortal corporate media pushing right now?

Jeb Bush - BCE. No further explanation required.

Eddie Munster Ryan - Look up all the explanation of this sorry piece of Randtard shit and what he's all about in the 2012 threads.

Willard Mittens Romney - I doubt he will be dumb enough to run again, but he's sure talking a lot lately, and he's not using that airtime to talk about Heavenly Father Elohim's plan for your life.

Ted Cruz - A Canadian born son of a Batista loving coward. Yeah, even if he were legally eligible to run for the office, that's not something you want with access to "the button".

Randtard Paul - Doesn't even have the one or two redeeming qualities of his father - and all the Ayn Rand cultism.

This is what the GOP is offering. As bad as Hillary would be, any one of them would be far worse.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

It doesn't really matter....

Honestly, if the Republicans would just TRY to refine their platform JUST A LITTLE, they would have a realistic shot of squeaking out a victory in the general election....

But they've actually gotten worse, so unless Hillary has an affair and they find some splooge on her pantssuit, it's a slam dunk....

[Von Halen]

I think it's funny you idiots argue so much about two crooked groups. Neither of which gives one fuck about you, or your families.

[ELVIS]

Thank you...

[Satan]

Funny thing here is that Thom Hartmann is talking to Phyllis fucking Schlafly, of all people, on his radio show. And while they were discussing economic & trade matters, you had an actual Liberal and actual Conservative agreeing on the issues, for the most part. And both agreeing that the corporatists/globalists are fucking it all up in both parties.

Of course then the old fossil had to start her rant on "gay marriage" and then that agreement all went to Heaven in a handbasket........

[Nitro Express]

Funny thing here is that Thom Hartmann is talking to Phyllis fucking Schlafly, of all people, on his radio show. And while they were discussing economic & trade matters, you had an actual Liberal and actual Conservative agreeing on the issues, for the most part. And both agreeing that the corporatists/globalists are fucking it all up in both parties.

Of course then the old fossil had to start her rant on "gay marriage" and then that agreement all went to Heaven in a handbasket........

You just nailed the problem. It's the international corporate gangsters screwing everyone. Obamacare is just Romneycare. Does anyone with a brain still believe Barry (Barrack Obama) is really a liberal? He's an actor working for bankers. He even has a stage name to make himself more internationally appealing. Gee do you think that's why they gave him the Nobel Peace Prize for nothing? The guy was connected all along.

So oh my. People are onto the scam and they are figuring out who's behind the curtain pulling Barrack Obama's strings. Now we need a red herring. Something contraversial. Gay marriage will do. That will ruffle feathers. Honestly. Do you think the sharks in Washington DC really care about the gays? No. They are just being used. Anything to get people fighting.

It's like throwing a stick to distract an angry guard dog so you can continue to rob the joint.

[Satan]

Sticks won't distract a trained guard dog. Steaks will though.

Which is why the smart criminals bring some meat along on the heist, and sprinkle a little valium on it so Fido takes a nap when he's done with his snack.

[Nitro Express]

Sticks won't distract a trained guard dog. Steaks will though.

Which is why the smart criminals bring some meat along on the heist, and sprinkle a little valium on it so Fido takes a nap when he's done with his snack.

Sounds like you have experience. Was a life of crime your past occupation or the current one? Of course you aren't a grade A prime criminal until you operate out of a Wall Street firm or the government (Which today is the same damn thing).

[Satan]

I'm the Devil. Who do you think gives the better criminals their ideas? http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d010.gif

[ELVIS]

So, the devil only influences good criminals ??

[Satan]

So, the devil only influences good criminals ??

I'm the Most Intelligent of the Angels my Former Employer ever created. How would it serve my Most Unholy purposes to inspire idiots?

That's why Chimp W. Bush was such a failure. He had all that evil DNA to work with, but with an IQ of 66.6, I just couldn't work with the moron.

[Seshmeister]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/28/death-penalty-study-4-percent-defendants-innocent

US death row study: 4% of defendants sentenced to die are innocent

Deliberately conservative figure lays bare extent of possible miscarriages of justice suggesting that the innocence of more than 200 prisoners still in the system may never be recognised.

At least 4.1% of all defendants sentenced to death in the US in the modern era are innocent, according to the first major study to attempt to calculate how often states get it wrong in their wielding of the ultimate punishment.

A team of legal experts and statisticians from Michigan and Pennsylvania used the latest statistical techniques to produce a peer-reviewed estimate of the “dark figure” that lies behind the death penalty – how many of the more than 8,000 men and women who have been put on death row since the 1970s were falsely convicted.

The team arrived at a deliberately conservative figure that lays bare the extent of possible miscarriages of justice, suggesting that the innocence of more than 200 prisoners still in the system may never be recognised.

The study concludes that were all innocent people who were given death sentences to be cleared of their offences, the exoneration rate would rise from the actual rate of those released – 1.6% – to at least 4.1%. That is equivalent in the time frame of the study, 1973 to 2004, of about 340 prisoners – a much larger group than the 138 who were exonerated in the same period.

“This is a disturbing finding,” said Samuel Gross, a law professor at the University of Michigan law school who is the lead author of the research. “There are a large number of people who are sentenced to death, and despite our best efforts some of them have undoubtedly been executed.”

The research team deployed statistical devices to put a figure on the proportion of cases of hidden innocence. In particular, they deployed a technique known as “survival analysis”, to calculate the percentage of prisoners who have been taken off death row but who might still be innocent.

They also applied “sensitivity analysis”, to take into account possible cases of exonerations where the released prisoner is nonetheless guilty, and to ensure that the overall findings erred on the side of caution.

The study, published in a prestigious journal, the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, does not solve perhaps the greatest single riddle of the death penalty: how many innocent people have actually been put to death in modern times. That remains a haunting unknown.

But Gross is clear that such final and irreparable injustices have occured.

“If you look at the numbers in our study, at how many errors are made, then you cannot believe that we haven’t executed any innocent person – that would be wishful thinking.”

Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center, which supplied some of the data on which the study depends, said “every time we have an execution, there is a risk of executing an innocent person. The risk may be small, but it’s unacceptable”.

The ballpark figure of at least 4.1% innocence is higher than previous studies looking at exoneration rates that had smaller sample sizes and were more restricted in their remit. It is also considerably higher than the estimate given in 2007 by the conservative US supreme court justice Antonin Scalia, who wrote that American criminal convictions generally had an “error rate of .027% – or, to put it another way, a success rate of 99.973%”.

The authors comment tartly with respect to Scalia’s skills as a statistician: “That would be comforting, if true. In fact, the claim is silly.”

The single largest group of innocent death row inmates are neither exonerated and released nor executed, the study suggests. Rather, they are left in limbo, somewhere in between those two extremes of fortune.

Gross and his co-authors estimate that 36% of all those sentenced to death between 1973 and 2004 – some 2,675 people – were taken off death row after doubts about their convictions were raised. But they were then put on new sentences, usually life without parole, that mean they will almost certainly die in prison.

The study concludes chillingly that “the great majority of innocent defendants who are convicted of capital murder in the United States are neither executed nor exonerated. They are sentenced, or resentenced to prison for life, and then forgotten”.

Gross said that this explains the 200 or so missing people highlighted by his study – men and women who are innocent and yet have not been exonerated. In most cases, they have probably been moved off death row.

Because they are no longer under the threat of execution, they are no longer treated as priorities within the criminal justice system. They can no longer draw upon the help of experienced legal teams, and they may not be entitled to appeals. As a result, their chances of clearing their names plummet.

“The best efforts of the judicial system are only devoted to prisoners when they face execution,” Gross said. “In many cases when people are released from death row, little or nothing is done to deal with the equally bad injustice they now face – that they will spend the rest of their lives in prison for a crime they didn’t commit.”

[FORD]

I'm actually surprised it's only 4%. But then, that's a national average. I'm sure it's much higher in some states.

I still have mixed feelings about the death penalty itself, but up here in Washington state, at least, there's an appeals process that borders on the ridiculous, when you have an obviously guilty piece of shit like Mitchell Rupe who shot two bank tellers in the face, and there was never a question of his guilt, yet he managed to delay his execution for years, literally make himself too fat to hang (which was then the standard form of execution here) and in a hilarious irony, overload his liver with high fructose corn poison in the process and eventually died a slow painful death from his self-inflicted damage.

He didn't deserve the luxury of such a process, but I'm still glad it's there, in the event that somebody innocent should ever need it to free themselves from the needle.

[Seshmeister]

I don't get your post at all.

You think that more than 4% of people sentenced to death aren't guilty but you only have 'mixed' feelings about the death penalty?

My point would be that killing of any innocent people at all would be entirely unacceptable.

Plus I'm still not convinced that execution is worse than life with no parole in prison for most of these cunts.

[vandeleur]

Plus I'm still not convinced that execution is worse than life with no parole in prison for most of these cunts.


Thats a point I was trying to make in a previous post

[cadaverdog]

Even though there are people who deserve to die like Manson, his family and Richard Ramirez I'm not sure I still agree with taking another persons life unless you have to. Put assholes like Manson into general population in prison and let the other inmates admimister his punishment. If people like him knew they weren't going to get any protection in prison they might think before doing shit like that. Anybody who harms a child or a pregnant woman doesn't last long in general population in prison or county jail.

[cadaverdog]

I got another idea how to handle people who deserve the death penalty. Hand them a gun with one bullet in it and tell them to blow their brains out. If they hesitate kneecap them. If they still hesitate gut shoot them. If that don't do the trick let em heal a bit and do it again. Eventually they'll pull the trigger.

[Seshmeister]

That's great, very helpful. So your solution to the problem of innocent people being executed is to torture them and then kill them?

[ashstralia]

It's all butterflies and rainbows to expect to lock up recidivist criminals and 'correct' them.
The sad fact is most of them will re offend. And again.

There are certain cases an argument could be made on the pro side as well.
Let's also pause for a moment to think of the millions of cows pigs sheep chooks dogs and cats who died for human food today.

[ashstralia]

How good was my 'The Shining' reference?

:biggrin:

[vandeleur]

Obscure :)

[Seshmeister]

It's all butterflies and rainbows to expect to lock up recidivist criminals and 'correct' them.
The sad fact is most of them will re offend. And again.


What's your solution, find some barren wasteland on the other side of the world and send them all there?

That could come back to bite you if they discover a bunch of natural resources... :)

[Seshmeister]

Or they start sending you back endless fucking movies about goblins and pixies...

[vandeleur]

What's your solution, find some barren wasteland on the other side of the world and send them all there?

That could come back to bite you if they discover a bunch of natural resources... :)

He he

[ashstralia]

Yep, we're a farm and a quarry.

On one side I go all the way back to a handkerchief thief.
I thank that beautiful lass for having children. I wouldn't be here if she didn't.

[Seshmeister]

Wow I was just reading about capital punishment in California and it's completely insane.

Since 1976 just 13 people have been executed but the cost to taxpayers has been $4 BILLION.

[Nitro Express]

Now you know why California has the largest state economy but has the worst bond rating out of all the states. The place is insane on every level as far as the government is concerned. It's the third largest oil producer in the US but yet the state is broke.

[Nitro Express]

It's easy to say you are against the death penalty unless the crime happened to a family member or friend. I think in this case more people would want the bastard executed. It's human nature.

[cadaverdog]

I think it's funny you idiots argue so much about two crooked groups. Neither of which gives one fuck about you, or your families.
Instead of trying to change shit we spend all our time pointing fingers at each other instead of pointing them at the real problem, the fucking politicians. Some inhumane bastard got inhumane treatment. Fuck that murdering child rapist. They should have cut off his dick and rammed it down his throat until he choked to death while the rest of the prison population took turns fucking him up the ass.

[SunisinuS]

Now you know why California has the largest state economy but has the worst bond rating out of all the states. The place is insane on every level as far as the government is concerned. It's the third largest oil producer in the US but yet the state is broke.

Actually you are 3 years behind the time....the Broke Making Guvenator is long gone....cali is in the black...and lol the GOP hates that shit. Jerry is going for two and man....the GOP hates success like it hates woman.(----Period.

So no news from the GOP on cali....as they know it is rocking again. Cali is only crazy to those who do not live here....and for the rest (I am up north and nestled) everything loose rolls southwest.

[cadaverdog]

It's easy to say you are against the death penalty unless the crime happened to a family member or friend. I think in this case more people would want the bastard executed. It's human nature.
If they don't they're either deeply religious or they didn't care about that person when they were alive.

[Seshmeister]

......

[cadaverdog]

That's great, very helpful. So your solution to the problem of innocent people being executed is to torture them and then kill them?
No, just the guilty ones. The death penalty and people getting a fair trial are two different things. I think the worst thing about our current system is prosecuters get rewarded for convicting people not convicting guilty people. They push for a conviction even though they know the person's not guilty because an aquittal means they lost. It doesn't make a difference if you're guilty or innocent. Judges generally assume you're guilty if you're accused. If you've been accused you must have done something wrong. Cops don't arrest innocent people. Just ask one.

[cadaverdog]

There's a guy in prison named Raymond Jennings. He was finally convicted after three trials. He was a security guard at a park and ride where a girl was murdered after she got dropped off after going to a video shoot for Kid Rock. Jennings was a wannabe cop and made some statements that made the cops think he knew more than he should have known. The girl was shot dead in her car and the car had been started and moved as if she tried to get away. The prosecuter said the jury could rule out robbery or car jacking because she wasn't robbed and they didn't take her car. They weren't given an option to think it was a robbery or car jacking that went bad and the shooter decided to haul ass without taking anything that would prove their guilt. No weapon was found and Jennings wasn't checked for gun powder residue. He wasn't arrested until he got back from Iraq 5 years after the murder. They failed to convict him twice in dowtown L A but finally convicted him in Lancaster the city next to Palmdale where the murder took place. The family of the victim was friends with the mayor of Lancaster R Rex Paris. Paris is a well known lawyer with plenty of influence in the are. I personally think the man was railroaded by a grieving family who was convinced Jennings killed there loved one by "expert testimony" that sounded like total bullshit. They said he must have seen what happened in a park and ride that holds hundreds of cars without any evidence that he actually could. The first lnk is about the conviction. The second one is from a group who thinks he was railroaded.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec/19/local/la-me-student-slain19-2009dec19
http://freeraymondjennings.angelfire.com/blog/