Swiss to vote on $25 an hour minimum wage

[ELVIS]

GENEVA, Switzerland (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/05/16/swiss-minimum-wage/9166687/) – A vote on Sunday to establish a minimum wage of $25 an hour would make mostly immigrants here in agriculture, housekeeping, and catering among the world's highest paid unskilled workforce.

http://images.hngn.com/data/images/full/25164/switzerland-to-vote-on-25-minimum-wage.jpg?w=600

The vote comes after hundreds of fast-food workers walked off their jobs in many U.S. cities and in more than 30 countries on Thursday in a protest for higher wages. If the Swiss proposal passes, the country would have the highest minimum wage in the world.

But some who would be eligible for the higher wage worry that it may do more harm than good.

Luisa Almeida is an immigrant from Portugal who works in Switzerland as a housekeeper and nanny. Almeida's earnings of $3,250 a month are below the proposed minimum wage but still much more than she'd make in Portugal.

Since she is not a Swiss citizen, she cannot vote but if she could, "I would vote 'no'," she says.

"If my employer had to pay me more money, he wouldn't be able to keep me on and I'd lose the job."

Almeida's concern illustrates the dilemma that faces the movement to have governments and not the market decide how much people should be paid at a minimum.

Forcing employers to hike wages means they must cut expenses to accommodate the higher labor costs. That often means less hiring, or some firing.

But Patrick Belser, Senior Economist in the Wage Group of the International Labor Office in Geneva says the initiative could work.

"International experience has shown that minimum wages can prevent labor exploitation without any negative effect on the economy," he said.

Yet, Besler worries that a minimum wage of $4,500 a month "is probably a little too high.

"If it is accepted, the effects on employment would have to be carefully monitored, and a mechanism for social dialogue should be created to discuss its effects and possible future adjustments of the rate," he said.

Currently, Switzerland does not have a minimum wage law. Industry-specific pay scales are determined by employment contracts or collective bargaining agreements between employers and trade unions. However, 90% of Swiss workers earn well above the proposed minimum and are already among the highest paid in the world.

According to government statistics, the average household income in Switzerland is about $6,800 a month; in the USA, where the minimum wage is currently $7.25 an hour, the average household monthly income is roughly $4,300, Census Bureau figures indicate.

Referendums are a unique feature of Switzerland's unique brand of social democracy, which gives citizens the power to shape policy over the government. Any individual or group can challenge existing legislation or force a vote on a new issue by collecting 100,000 signatures on a petition.

As in America, the issue of minimum income is controversial in Switzerland, too, pitting employers against trade unions and left-wing parties, which sponsored the proposal. And many of the "pro" and "con" arguments are similar as well.

Opponents of the initiative say a law regulating minimum wages would be detrimental to Switzerland's thriving economy because businesses might cut existing jobs or not hire new employees. At 3.2%, Switzerland's unemployment rate is among the lowest globally.

"This measure would eliminate a big number of low-skill jobs performed by the very workers the legislation is supposed to help," former trade union economist Beat Kappeler says. "It would be damaging in quantitative and qualitative ways."

"A minimum wage of 4,000 francs could lead to job cuts and even threaten the existence of smaller companies, notably in retail, catering, agriculture and housekeeping." Swiss Economics Minister Johann Schneider-Ammann told the local media recently. "If jobs are being cut, the weakest suffer most."

A recent poll by gfs.bern research institute shows that 64% of those surveyed are against the proposal. In past referendums on proposals from the left, the Swiss have been of two minds.

Last year Switzerland passed a measure to curb "excessive" bonuses for executive, but months later in another referendum the country voted down a proposal to reduce the income gap between lowest and highest salaries even though polls predicted the measure would pass.


:elvis:

[Kristy]

Fuck you, Ayn Rand Society.

[FORD]

Meanwhile, back in the country formerly known as "The land of the free", corporations are now not only people, but religious people. And how do these religious corporate people practice their professed beliefs?

https://24.media.tumblr.com/f0ee0a7869076f554deb68c743a4f6cf/tumblr_n5hau9HS6X1ssr4ffo1_500.jpg

Yeah, I'd say the Swiss are more likely to get into Heaven, if you actually read the gospels......

[ELVIS]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't say that, FROD...

[Nickdfresh]

Oh God! It's spreading! The living wage! Pretty soon we're going to be destitute hellholes like that third world swamp Switzerland! Pray to Jesus!

[FORD]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't say that, FROD...

Oh yeah??

1 Timothy 5:18

New International Version (NIV)

18 For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.”

[DONNIEP]

I hope the US raises the minimum wage to 25 bucks. Man, just think how that would boost the economy! Before long everybody would be a millionaire! Which would be a good thing, because you'd need a fucking truck load of cash to buy groceries...

[DONNIEP]

"A minimum wage of 4,000 francs could lead to job cuts and even threaten the existence of smaller companies, notably in retail, catering, agriculture and housekeeping."

Who gives a fuck if a high minimum wage kills all the retail and agriculture jobs. We can just eat money!

[FORD]

Walmart killed all the retail jobs, and Monsatan killed all the agriculture jobs. So it's a little late to worry about that.

[cadaverdog]

Walmart killed all the retail jobs, and Monsatan killed all the agriculture jobs. So it's a little late to worry about that. Depends on where you live I guess. In the Antelope Valley , the northernmost part of L A county the largest employer of any kind is probably Walmart. Walmart's not the best place to work but it's better than no place to work. A few of the smaller stores went out of business when they came to town but there's alot more local jobs up there now thanks to Walmart. Walmart brought Home Depot to town and Loews followed. Before that we had one K Mart and one Builders Emporium. Now they have 4 Super Walmarts, 1 Sam's club, 2 Home Depots and 2 Loews.

[Nitro Express]

Depends on where you live I guess. In the Antelope Valley , the northernmost part of L A county the largest employer of any kind is probably Walmart. Walmart's not the best place to work but it's better than no place to work. A few of the smaller stores went out of business when they came to town but there's alot more local jobs up there now thanks to Walmart. Walmart brought Home Depot to town and Loews followed. Before that we had one K Mart and one Builders Emporium. Now they have 4 Super Walmarts, 1 Sam's club, 2 Home Depots and 2 Loews.

It depends on what you do for Walmart. I hear they are good to drive for. I know a guy who gave up being an independent trucker because by the time you have the rig paid off it's worn out. You are always in debt. So he hired on with Walmart and he likes that better. He's happy with what they are paying him and he has a lot less to worry about.

That being said, I still think Walmart sucks.

[FORD]

It depends on what you do for Walmart. I hear they are good to drive for. I know a guy who gave up being an independent trucker because by the time you have the rig paid off it's worn out. You are always in debt. So he hired on with Walmart and he likes that better. He's happy with what they are paying him and he has a lot less to worry about.

That being said, I still think Walmart sucks.

Ask your friend when Walmart's going to give him one of their new "Stormtrooper" hybrid trucks......

http://www.greenretaildecisions.com/upload/images/news_images/walmart/walmart-WAVE-truck.png

I still think the company is evil as fuck, for the most part. But those rigs are impressive.

[Nitro Express]

The new rigs have automatic transmissions. You no longer jam gears. Ah WalFart will can his ass and use an automated GPS system to drive the truck like a drone.

[cadaverdog]

I still think the company is evil as fuck, for the most part. But those rigs are impressive.
I don't think the company itself is evil but alot of the store managers are. They get bonuses for keeping labor costs low and profits high. If they're too greedy there's usually alot of pissed off employees at the meetings with corporate and they shit can the manager. Most of the people I worked with had been there for years and were making decent money considering most of them stocked shelves or took care of inventory. Not exactly what you'd call skilled labor.

[cadaverdog]

The new rigs have automatic transmissions. You no longer jam gears. Ah WalFart will can his ass and use an automated GPS system to drive the truck like a drone.
A lot of new trucks do but some companies still use trucks with manual transmissions. My nieces soon to be ex husband works for a trucking company out of Ft Worth. All their trucks still have manual transmissions. The automatics are alot more expensive to maintain, repair and replace.

[Angel]

Walmart killed all the retail jobs, and Monsatan killed all the agriculture jobs. So it's a little late to worry about that.

Walmart hires people with disAbilities instead of temp foreign workers. I like that...

[Angel]

Surprised no one has mentioned Seattle's proposed $15/hr mimimum wage...

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/05/15/four-lessons-from-seattles-60-percent-minimum-wage-hike/

[DrMaddVibe]

Walmart killed all the retail jobs, and Monsatan killed all the agriculture jobs. So it's a little late to worry about that.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/05/17/walmart-is-falling-apart-before-our-eyes.aspx

[ELVIS]

Good bye and good riddance...

[FORD]

Ah.... so maybe that's the real reason why Walmart is trying so hard to repaint themselves as a "green" company in recent months, with the hybrid trucks, the planned solar panels, and such.

But as long as they're still having most of their shit made in China, they're far more the problem than the solution.

Old Sam Walton was a greedy ruthless bastard who gutted the business cores of small towns to build his chain of stores, but at least he had the sense to only sell American made products. His kids - who did nothing whatsoever to earn their billions - are probably more responsible than anybody other than the BCE for the rise of China as an economic (and pollution) power, at our expense. Not that other companies aren't just as guilty now.... but how many only did it because Walmart got away with it?

[Nitro Express]

I really don't know what to think of Sam Walton. When none of his stores existed where I lived he was just the guy you read about. He was the multi-millionare who drove the old beater truck and ate breakfast at Denny's. Basically he was touted as the visionary who didn't compete in the crowded city world of retail but took something new to the small towns. Maybe he wasn't greedy. He just saw a market where there was little competition.

It's a common story. The parent builds a great company and the kids sell out. It's amazing how quickly corporate culture changes as soon as a founder and major stockholder passes away. I've seen it first hand. Once the company becomes owned by Wall Street it's fucked.

I was voting proxies and I was amazed at how blatant the board of directors were about auditing themselves and giving themselves pay raises. In many cases they get what they want. Amazing. They are ripping off the shareholders. I think the problem is very few people own individual stocks anymore. They own funds. Nobody is voting proxy anymore and the boards are getting full power to do whatever they want. With a complacent government. Not only can they abuse at will they can get government bailouts and stick their loses to the taxpayer.

No surprise. Most citizens don't vote. Most shareholders don't vote their proxies. If people would vote more and vote intelligently these problems would not exist.

[Nitro Express]

A lot of new trucks do but some companies still use trucks with manual transmissions. My nieces soon to be ex husband works for a trucking company out of Ft Worth. All their trucks still have manual transmissions. The automatics are alot more expensive to maintain, repair and replace.

Automatics have always been that way. If you buy a used car many times fixing the automatic transmission is more than the car is worth. With a manual transmission they last a very long time; especially, if the gear oil has been changed on schedule. You just change the clutch when it's worn. One Toyota mechanic said they had a Toyota come in with 500,000 miles on it. Original engine and transmission. He said it still ran pretty good. The owner ran Castrol motor oil in it and changed the gear oil. Amazing how long engines last with modern oils.

That car probably would have been scrapped a long time ago if it had an automatic transmission. I'm interested in seeing how many miles that transmission can go before the synchronizers finally wear. It's just had 90 weight in it. No fancy synthetic blends.

I would say unless you are operating in extreme cold or extreme heat synthetics are a waste of money.

[Nitro Express]

Ah.... so maybe that's the real reason why Walmart is trying so hard to repaint themselves as a "green" company in recent months, with the hybrid trucks, the planned solar panels, and such.

But as long as they're still having most of their shit made in China, they're far more the problem than the solution.

Old Sam Walton was a greedy ruthless bastard who gutted the business cores of small towns to build his chain of stores, but at least he had the sense to only sell American made products. His kids - who did nothing whatsoever to earn their billions - are probably more responsible than anybody other than the BCE for the rise of China as an economic (and pollution) power, at our expense. Not that other companies aren't just as guilty now.... but how many only did it because Walmart got away with it?

Every company is selling itself as "Green". It's the current trend. Most of it is marketing and PR bullshit. Most of the solar panels are MADE IN CHINA. I mean yeah you can run some things off batteries and inverters but you aren't going to be running heavy industry on solar and solar is expensive. Everyone I ever saw go solar eventually takes the panels off their home. Heck even if you lived in a wigwam off the grid someone would be coming after you because your wood fire is polluting and putting too much carbon in the atmosphere and shitting in a hole isn't an ecologically safe way to process waste.

There is always something. Even if you shot yourself in the head, you would be cited for polluting because your rotting dead body gives off dangerous gasses that go into the atmosphere. Also your carcase may draw in dangerous predators like wolves. Oh wait. Those are good. I forgot.

[Nitro Express]

As far as minimum wage goes I don't see the point. The only thing that pays minimum wage are entry level jobs. Nobody can live on a minimum wage and young people need entry level jobs to get some experience. The problem we have is we lost our industrial base. You only can run on paper pushers and services so far. I mean nobody is gong to flip burgers their whole life. If you make the cost of a burger too much people will just brown bag it.

[DONNIEP]

If you make the cost of a burger too much people will just brown bag it.

No they won't. Because they won't be able to afford brown bags. Or the food to go in them. Plus, they'd probably get tired of waiting in huge lines at the grocery store because the owners wouldn't be able to pay every employee 50 grand a year to bag groceries and stock shelves.

But this is all just make believe. We all know every small business owner is a millionaire and can afford to pay their employees 50 grand a year. Without raising prices.

[cadaverdog]

As far as minimum wage goes I don't see the point. The only thing that pays minimum wage are entry level jobs. Nobody can live on a minimum wage and young people need entry level jobs to get some experience. The problem we have is we lost our industrial base. You only can run on paper pushers and services so far. I mean nobody is gong to flip burgers their whole life. If you make the cost of a burger too much people will just brown bag it.
Entry level jobs are careers in some places. There's not too many manufacturing jobs in Southern California and people don't quit good jobs to get better ones much anymore. Fast food jobs might be filled by youngsters where you live but they're filled mainly by Mexicans here. They don't hire many people that don't speak spanish. They hire plenty that don't speak english but not too many that don't speak spanish. Considering spanish speaking people are the majority here they have to.

[cadaverdog]

No they won't. Because they won't be able to afford brown bags. Or the food to go in them. Plus, they'd probably get tired of waiting in huge lines at the grocery store because the owners wouldn't be able to pay every employee 50 grand a year to bag groceries and stock shelves.


That's the main problem with raising minimum wage. When minimum wages goes up so do prices. That's why they charge 6 dollars for 6 dollar burgers at Carl's Jr now. They used to be about 3 dollars. Getting a 6 dollar burger for 3 was a good deal. The next time they raise minimum wage you'll pay more than 6 dollars for a 6 dollar burger. They'll have to change it to a 20 dollar burger to make it appear like a good deal. If profesional sports teams gave back 25% of the profit to the community and split the rest between owners and players every city that has a professional sports team would have a lot more money. Instead they pay people millions of dollars a year to play sports and they piss it away on huge houses, parties, cars, jewelry and entourages.

[ELVIS]

Entry level jobs are careers in some places.

No they're not, dickhead...

They're entry level jobs...

Some places don't have careers...

[Dr. Love]

It was voted down by a 76% majority.