Burger King Wants to Buy Tim Hortons and Become Canadian Tax Cheaters

[FORD]

Burger King in Talks to Buy Canadian Chain Tim Hortons
By Leslie Patton and Craig Giammona - Aug 25, 2014
(http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-24/burger-king-in-talks-to-acquire-tim-hortons-restaurant-chain.html)

Burger King Worldwide Inc. (BKW), the second-largest U.S. burger chain, is in talks to buy Tim Hortons Inc. (THI) and move its headquarters to Canada, becoming the latest American company seeking to relocate to a lower-tax country.

Burger King would create the world’s third-largest fast-food chain by merging with Canada’s biggest seller of coffee and doughnuts, the companies said in a statement. The Canadian corporate tax rate is typically 26.5 percent, compared with 40 percent in the U.S., according to auditing and tax firm KPMG.

The deal renews debate over American companies shifting their headquarters internationally in search of lower corporate tax bills. The trend drew criticism last month from President Barack Obama, and his aides vowed that the administration would take action to curtail the practice.

“There’s some modest political risk to the deal, but it’s difficult to say because we haven’t seen the administration move to block one of these yet,” said Will Slabaugh, an analyst at Stephens Inc. in Little Rock, Arkansas.

The merger talks sent shares of both companies soaring. Burger King rose 20 percent to $32.40, the biggest jump since the stock debuted on the New York Stock Exchange two years ago. Tim Hortons climbed 19 percent to C$82.03, reaching a record high. The stock gains propelled the market value of Burger King past $11 billion and Tim Hortons to C$10.9 billion ($9.9 billion).

The proposed deal would give Burger King access to a coffee brand with a cult following and potentially help boost breakfast sales. Burger King now sells coffees under the Seattle’s Best name, which is owned by Starbucks Corp. Tim Hortons also would let Burger King get into the grocery business by selling packaged coffees at supermarkets in North America.

3G Capital, which has a 70 percent stake in Miami-based Burger King, would own the majority of the shares of the new company, according to the statement. The two businesses will operate as stand-alone brands, though there may be supply-chain cost savings from combining them.

How U.S. Companies Buy Tax Breaks

3G was co-founded by billionaire Jorge Paulo Lemann, Brazil’s richest person. The firm’s managers have gained a reputation by squeezing costs out of the companies it acquires, Slabaugh said.

“These guys are known for making some very smart financial moves,” he said.


3G, which teamed up with Berkshire Hathaway Inc. last year to buy HJ Heinz Co., has made cost cutting a priority at the ketchup company. Heinz embarked on a plan to fire more than 1,000 workers and close plants in North America, though a group of Ontario investors said in March that they would keep open the Canadian tomato-juice factory.

In Burger King’s case, the new combined business would have about $22 billion in sales and more than 18,000 restaurants in 100 countries. The deal is subject to negotiation, and Burger King and Tim Hortons don’t plan to comment further until an agreement is reached or discussions are discontinued, according to the statement.

Between mid-June and late July, when Obama began criticizing deals that cut taxes by relocating outside the U.S., at least five large American companies have announced plans to make such a move -- known as an “inversion.” That includes AbbVie Inc. and Medtronic Inc.

Since the start of 2012, at least 21 U.S. companies have announced or completed the deals, comprising almost half the total of 51 such transactions in the past three decades.

Burger King already pays a rate below 40 percent, the result of operating in a mix of tax jurisdictions. Its effective tax rate in 2013 was 27.5 percent, the company said in a filing. Still, the rate may eventually creep up toward 35 percent without the inversion, Slabaugh said.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said today he wouldn’t comment on specific actions by any company. He repeated previous administration statements that the Treasury Department is looking at potential changes in rules to make tax inversion deals “less appealing.”

“Companies that consider actions like an inversion continue to benefit from all of the resources of the United States,” Earnest said at a briefing in Washington. “It’s not fair for them to just fill out some paperwork that would allow them to just renounce their citizenship” to lower their tax rate.

Close Loophole?

Earnest said Obama’s goal remains getting Congress to pass legislation to rework business taxes. Saying that getting that done will “take some time,” he said Congress in the interim should approve stand-alone legislation closing the loophole that allows inversions.

Tim Hortons, which has about 4,500 restaurants, is expanding its product lines to boost sales. The Oakville, Ontario-based company posted results this month that beat estimates and said fiscal 2014 profit will top or be at the high end of its target range.

Burger King, meanwhile, has been trying to revive growth in a moribund fast-food industry. Its revenue fell 6.1 percent to $261.2 million in the second quarter, while same-store sales in the U.S. and Canada rose 0.4 percent. To help streamline the chain, Burger King has been trying to introduce fewer new items, helping its kitchens move more quickly.
Young Management

The plan to move to Canada follows Burger King’s stock-market debut in 2012. The chain had been taken private in 2010 by 3G, which got $1.4 billion in cash from the public offering.

About a year after it was taken public, 3G put one of its partners, Daniel Schwartz, at the helm of the fast-food chain. Schwartz, 33, a Cornell University graduate, had no experience in the industry before going to Burger King. Chief Financial Officer Josh Kobza and Alex Macedo, who runs North America for Burger King, also are under 40 years old.

U.S. fast-food restaurants are struggling with shaky consumer confidence and steep competition, adding pressure to find ways to alleviate the burden. Burger King has been trying to draw customers with value deals, such as a two-sandwiches-for-$5 offer, as well as some new limited-time fare such as chicken fries.

Tim Hortons, which claims to sell eight out of 10 cups of coffee in Canada, was founded by Hall of Fame Toronto Maple Leafs hockey defenseman Tim Horton in 1964 and has become one of the nation’s most recognized brands. Wendy’s Co. acquired the chain in 1995 and then spun it off as a public company in 2006.

Still, it’s been difficult to build the brand south of the border. Investors have criticized the company’s U.S. growth strategy, saying it hasn’t gotten much of a payoff from the hundreds of millions spent over the past decade. In an interview last year, CEO Marc Caira said winning over U.S. consumers was key to Tim Hortons’ strategy.

“The U.S. for me is what I call a must-win battle,” he said.

To contact the reporters on this story: Leslie Patton in Chicago at lpatton5@bloomberg.net; Craig Giammona in New York at cgiammona@bloomberg.net

To contact the editors responsible for this story: Nick Turner at nturner7@bloomberg.net

[cadaverdog]

I was going to ask your opinion but the complete title of the thread says it all. It doesn't seem right that a company that does business here shouldn't have to pay US taxes on the money they make here. Do other countries let US based companies do business there without paying taxes?

[ashstralia]

Fuck yeah. Apple and Google pay next to no tax here.

[Kristy]

Bet they get to hump kangaroos for next to nothing as well.

[DONNIEP]

Ugh...too many words. I stopped when I read BK is the second largest burger chain in the US. Who knew? I mean, I like their whopper, better than any of McDs burgers. But I always thought Burger King was kinda like one step up from Hardees.

[Seshmeister]

I have a Burger King about once a year in an emergency. We have a thing here called an Angus Burger which is almost acceptable, according to Wiki they don't do them in the US any more. Their fries are surprisingly shit which is a good thing as it stops any temptation to buy them.

Anyhoo I think the main point of the post is the ongoing shit that big corporations don't pay corporation tax any more. Why can't governments get together and fix this?

[DONNIEP]

Right, thanks for the condensed version. When I see that many words in one post I tend to tune out.

The Whopper here is pretty good. I haven't had BK's fries in a while but they used to be little stick looking things. Sucked Ballz. If they'd get their fries right then they'd have something.

[Von Halen]

RWhen I see that many words in one post I tend to tune out.



Me too!

Tim Horton's just came out with a dark roast that is awesome!

Hockey and Tim Horton's, the greatest things those Cafucks have ever produced!

[FORD]

Tim Horton's is a fucking institution in Canada. Look for it to be totally destroyed if Burger King swallows it up :(

Most ironic thing about this story, is there are Tim Horton's in BC that are co-located with Wendy's, (pretty much like the KFC/Pizza Slut combo-franchises in the US) so they can't be happy about this either.

[DONNIEP]

Who the fuck is Tim Horton???

[WACF]

Tim Horton was a Hockey Player with one hell of an idea.

[WACF]

Tim Horton's is a fucking institution in Canada. Look for it to be totally destroyed if Burger King swallows it up :(

Most ironic thing about this story, is there are Tim Horton's in BC that are co-located with Wendy's, (pretty much like the KFC/Pizza Slut combo-franchises in the US) so they can't be happy about this either.

There is at least one co Wendy's/Hortons here in Saskatoon.

But...when I heard of this I cringed...I hope in no way they mess with it.

I like Timmies the way it is!

[DONNIEP]

Tim Horton was a Hockey Player with one hell of an idea.

Thank you. I figured he had to be some kind of superhero.

[DONNIEP]

We have a KFC/Taco Bell here in town. Sounds like an odd combo but it works. We don't eat much fast food but it's a good compromise for when I can't be bothered to cook.

[Von Halen]

We have a lot of the TH/Wendy's combo stores here in Michigan.

[cadaverdog]

We have a KFC/Taco Bell here in town. Sounds like an odd combo but it works. We don't eat much fast food but it's a good compromise for when I can't be bothered to cook.
Actually having two totally different types of food would work well in small towns and truckstops that don't attract large crowds very often. I don't think the KFC/Pizza Hut combo is that bad either. Out here it's Carl's and Green Burrito and Weinershnitzel and Dairy Queen. They only sell Dairy Queen ice cream stuff though, no DQ burgers and such.

[DONNIEP]

We have a Taco Bell/Pizza Hut in the next town over. It works pretty well too. And the DQ in the mall is a DQ/Orange Julius stand. And that shit rocks like a motherfucker! They have all the DQ food and ice cream PLUS all the Orange Julius stuff. God I do so love a large Orange Julius drink...frothy, orangey, with just a hint of...chocolate maybe. I used to take chocolate ice cream and orange juice and crank it up in the blender and it almost had that Orange Julius flavor. Well, to me anyways.

[Seshmeister]

I think fast food isn't a great advert for capitalism especially with pizza.

The big pizza chains are IMHO really shit.

Pizza is the greatest scam in the world, it's peasant food. Flour and water and a little cheese. Then you get to charge a dollar for a topping of a mushroom which is maybe 2 fucking mushrooms. You go to Naples where it comes from and you can still buy amazing pizza for $5. The American chain version from Dominoes or Pizza Hut is expensive fucking garbage. I say that as someone that has bought plenty of them over the years. I don't think this is anything to do with taste it's to do with profits and marketing and so on. It's because the people that set up those franchises did that bit well not that the food was any good.

[DONNIEP]

You can buy any pizza at Pizza Hut for 11 bucks. Any size, all the toppings you want. You have to order it online these days but you can get a super duper triple dick whack paddy wack pizza for 11 bucks. And guess what? It sucks Ballz.

There's a mom & pop Eyetalyun joint in town, run by Greeks, that has some of the best pizza you'll ever eat. Sure, it's a little more expensive. But it's great.

[SunisinuS]

I have no problem with this....it is the way of commercial enterprise. After BK leaves and pays less taxes just put a license fee on everything they sell in the US. Done and Done. Charge them to use the roads....charge them to use the water....charge them every time they use US infrastructure. Simple. Long as they pay their own way I don't care if they relocate to Russia. Require the Corp leadership to change their citizenship...it's ok if they are in search of what every chick is: The BBD.

And each time a corp does it put a 15 yr cap on it. So they cannot come back for 15 yrs. Let them bust open the 34 million population of burger selling in Canada instead of the 300 mil they could have sold to in the US. They will save a lot of taxes selling 34 million burgers a year instead of 300 mil. Done and Done.

[Nickdfresh]

Ugh...too many words. I stopped when I read BK is the second largest burger chain in the US. Who knew? I mean, I like their whopper, better than any of McDs burgers. But I always thought Burger King was kinda like one step up from Hardees.

You're out of your mind, BK is huge. They're the one the chains you find everywhere. There are no Hardees left here despite the fact that anything Canadian, including Tim Hortons, is huge here.

There's literally a Tim Hortons at every major thoroughfare here, and I am not exaggerating in the least bit. Tim Horton himself was a legendary NHL hockey player that died in the twilight of his career while playing for the Buffalo Sabres after spending years, decades in Toronto. He was killed in a car accident and is one of the only professional athletes to have played in four different decades in their sport (something like 1948-1972 without checking). Duncan Donuts what? We have that too, but not anywhere near Tims here. Personally, I think Tim Hortons is okay, but really not a fan of their coffee and their donuts kind of suck even though I rarely eat donunts in general...

[Nickdfresh]

Actually having two totally different types of food would work well in small towns and truckstops that don't attract large crowds very often. I don't think the KFC/Pizza Hut combo is that bad either. Out here it's Carl's and Green Burrito and Weinershnitzel and Dairy Queen. They only sell Dairy Queen ice cream stuff though, no DQ burgers and such.

Brazer DQ is the best for burgers and shit!

[Nickdfresh]

Tim Horton was a Hockey Player with one hell of an idea.

His widow is very, very rich I think...

[twonabomber]

Wendy's owned Tim Horton's for a while then spun it off.

[DONNIEP]

You're out of your mind, BK is huge. They're the one the chains you find everywhere.

I was mainly talking about the quality of the food, comparing them to Hardees.

[Seshmeister]

It's weird how the two biggest burger chains both had such creepy mascots...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/19/article-0-0D7F33FA00000578-3_468x433.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/19/article-0-005F878700000258-914_468x303.jpg

[twonabomber]

You're out of your mind, BK is huge. They're the one the chains you find everywhere. There are no Hardees left here despite the fact that anything Canadian, including Tim Hortons, is huge here.


I don't know what BK does there, but here some of their locations are in leased buildings, with a requirement to remodel every so many years. Maybe it's a corporate thing, I dunno. Any other franchise owns the building and land, and will remodel or tear down and rebuild on the same lot. We're on our third McD's on the same lot, second Taco Bell across from it. I know of three local BK's that have closed up, leaving empty buildings.

There's one Hardee's near me, and I know there's a couple on the turnpike. Rally's went in not far from Hardee's and I would much rather go to Rally's.

I remember reading that Tim's liked it's US stores to be within "driving distance" of Canada. We don't have any here but there's one in Toledo...I think the drive from here to Niagara is about the same as the drive from south Toledo 'burbs to Windsor. Think I've been to Tim's once, in Montreal.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I remember reading that Tim's liked it's US stores to be within "driving distance" of Canada. We don't have any here but there's one in Toledo...I think the drive from here to Niagara is about the same as the drive from south Toledo 'burbs to Windsor. Think I've been to Tim's once, in Montreal.

They've been expanding, for sure. And this merger should help it expand even more, although I don't like BK's tax dodging, at least it gives BK great coffee.

They have two TH in my hometown in NW PA, 5 in Erie. They currently have them as far south (for the public anyway) in West Virginia. They sell TH at the Penguins' arena in Pittsburgh. And for me, I get lucky because the Navy has had TH on two of their bases here in our area, one of which is like 4 miles from my house.

[Angel]

I actually prefer McD's coffee over Tim's...

The donuts WERE good, when they made them fresh in store.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I actually prefer McD's coffee over Tim's...

You're not a real Canadian.... ;)

[ELVIS]

Keep drinking that filthy water...

[VetteLS5]

I have a Burger King about once a year in an emergency.

I usually have an emergency after Burger King.

[Angel]

Keep drinking that filthy water...
No...our water is clean, not swamp. ;)

[Angel]

I usually have an emergency after Burger King.
I cannot remember the last time I ate there...they don't send coupons out. ;)

[jacksmar]

I have no problem with this....it is the way of commercial enterprise. After BK leaves and pays less taxes just put a license fee on everything they sell in the US. Done and Done. Charge them to use the roads....charge them to use the water....charge them every time they use US infrastructure. Simple. Long as they pay their own way I don't care if they relocate to Russia. Require the Corp leadership to change their citizenship...it's ok if they are in search of what every chick is: The BBD.

And each time a corp does it put a 15 yr cap on it. So they cannot come back for 15 yrs. Let them bust open the 34 million population of burger selling in Canada instead of the 300 mil they could have sold to in the US. They will save a lot of taxes selling 34 million burgers a year instead of 300 mil. Done and Done.

Spoken like a true hardcore socialist. You don’t understand communism by insurance mandate so this certainly isn’t a surprise. Your position is supported by charade brown, an Ohio democrat who got his ass handed to him by Colin Powell.

So, when regimes change you won’t have a problem with the U.S. taxing john kerry’s wife’s business in the same fashion.

I noticed you didn’t mention $2 billion unaccounted for in the Pentagon, $2 billion unaccounted for in the US Dept. of Education and that the U.S. gov’t expects us to keep paying taxes for them to piss the money away.

My position is simple: BK served the faggot whopper. Good riddance.

[Kristy]

Spoken like a true hardcore socialist.

http://thenextfamily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/coming-out-of-the-closet-e1346920556773.jpg

[FORD]

Spoken like a true hardcore fascist, educated in BCE occupied Florida. You don't understand that mandated purchase of something from private corporations is the polar opposite of "communism".

[Kristy]

Asscrackasmr will never have any understanding of political ideologies other than what his corporate talk show masters tell him. Oh, and his lame-ass Google searches.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

.frothy, orangey, with just a hint of...chocolate maybe. I used to take chocolate ice cream and orange juice and crank it up in the blender and it almost had that Orange Julius flavor. Well, to me anyways.

says the cilantro soap lover...

[FORD]

....because that Oompa Loompa son of a bitch is making money off the scam....


Boehner, Camp Profit From Corporate Bid to Avoid U.S. Tax
By Richard Rubin - Aug 26, 2014

Two top Republican lawmakers profited from a corporate tax-avoidance maneuver that the U.S. Treasury Department is seeking to curb.

While U.S. House Speaker John Boehner and Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp have resisted calls for a crackdown on companies adopting overseas addresses to pay lower taxes, both have made money off one of the deals. They also have investments at risk of losing value because of government action.

The two lawmakers reported the sale of stock in Covidien Plc within nine days of Medtronic Inc. saying it was planning a takeover, an announcement that sent Dublin-based Covidien’s shares near a 52-week high. The deal, one of several that have sparked a national debate over U.S. corporate tax policy, would put the combined company’s headquarters in Ireland and reduce its tax rate.

How U.S. Companies Buy Tax Breaks

Boehner, the top Republican in Congress, and Camp, whose committee controls tax policy, haven’t backed a proposal by President Barack Obama and Democrats for a retroactive law that would penalize the Medtronic-Covidien deal and seven others.

According to an analysis of public disclosures, the lawmakers still hold Medtronic shares -- and Camp bought additional stock after the medical-device maker announced the transaction. Those holdings, though only a small part of the two multimillionaires’ stock portfolios, give them an interest in the deal’s completion, along with their ability to influence the outcome.
‘Beyond Suspicion’

Their actions are legal, and spokesmen for both say the congressmen weren’t involved in the financial decisions and that the trades were made by their investment advisers. Still, the two lawmakers, who have more sway over tax policy than any other House members, are invested in deals that Obama and other Democrats say are wrong and unpatriotic.

A Bloomberg News review of public filings of congressional leaders and members of the tax committees found at least five other lawmakers with investments in companies involved in inversion deals.

“The opportunities for being swayed by that are legion,” said Miles Rapoport, president of Common Cause, a Washington-based group that advocates for open government. “This is not a small issue where we wonder whether legislators are acting entirely in the public interest or whether somewhere in their mind it’s about how they will fare themselves.”
Delegating Authority

Boehner and Camp each sold between $15,000 and $50,000 in Covidien shares in June. Boehner holds at least $15,000 in Medtronic stock and Camp at least $20,000. Lawmakers are only required to report such transactions within broad ranges, and the Medtronic figures could be far higher for Camp.

“Speaker Boehner is not involved in day-to-day stock trades,” his spokesman, Michael Steel, said in an e-mailed statement. “He delegated that authority to an investment adviser, who has handled such transactions for years.”

Camp “releases a full and complete disclosure of his personal finances on a regular basis,” said his spokesman, Sage Eastman. “A firm handles all trades, and the chairman is not involved in the day-to-day investment decisions.”

The Medtronic-Covidien transaction would be penalized under bills proposed by Democrats that would make it harder for U.S. companies to carry out such tax-inversion deals. The terms of the deal allow Minneapolis-based Medtronic to walk away from the transaction if the law passes.

Boehner and Camp say the U.S. should instead address the issue in a broader revamp of the tax code that reduces the corporate rate and provides a more permanent solution to the problem.
Drawing Scrutiny

Inversions have become more common and larger over the past year, drawing closer scrutiny. In the recent wave, U.S. companies have bought smaller overseas businesses and then taken the foreign addresses, without moving executives or operations. The deals give companies easier access to offshore profits and open opportunities to reduce taxes on their U.S. income.

Burger King Worldwide Inc., the second-largest U.S. burger chain, is in talks to buy Tim Hortons Inc. and move its headquarters to Canada, the companies said on Aug. 24.

Democrats call such deals a threat to the corporate tax base. The bill they’re backing would penalize eight transactions, including the Medtronic-Covidien deal and AbbVie Inc.’s merger with Dublin-based Shire Plc.
Rules Loom

Those efforts haven’t advanced in Congress, even in the Democratic-controlled Senate. The Treasury Department is working on potential rules that would make inversions less attractive; those wouldn’t require congressional approval.

For his part, Obama has raised campaign money from executives, directors and advisers involved in inversion deals, and the administration has said it won’t return any money. In 2009, as part of its bailout of the auto industry, the Treasury Department helped the Michigan parts supplier Delphi Corp. emerge from bankruptcy as a U.K. company.

Boehner and Camp have weighed in on the issue before. In 2004, the two lawmakers voted for a corporate tax bill that included language that made it more difficult for companies to invert without using a merger.

Last month, Camp was one of 34 Republicans backing a ban on federal contracts being awarded to some inverted companies, a vote he said “was important to highlight the issue.”
Revamp Proposed

And Camp has proposed a revamp of the tax code that would cut the U.S. corporate rate to 25 percent from 35 percent, reducing the incentive for companies to take a foreign address. Obama also supports lowering the corporate tax rate.

Camp’s plan hasn’t advanced, and the 61-year-old Michigan lawmaker is retiring from Congress at the end of the year.

Boehner, 64, of Ohio, has blamed a “broken tax code” for the problem, saying it gives U.S. companies incentives to stockpile profits overseas.

“It’s one of the reasons why we have to have tax reform,” he told reporters on May 20. “We bear some of the responsibility -- in forcing companies to actually take steps like this because we make it so expensive for them to bring some of those earnings back here.”

Earlier this month, in an article he wrote for Politico, Boehner urged Obama not to “act unilaterally” to prevent inversions, saying it would exceed his executive authority.
Fuller Picture

Members of Congress are required to report their finances annually in broad ranges. A 2012 law required additional disclosures. Now, they must disclose transactions within 45 days, giving a more current picture of their financial activities. Under the previous law, Boehner and Camp wouldn’t have had to report their June 2014 sales until May 2015.

“It’s just much, much, much more up to date,” said Sarah Bryner, research director at the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington group that tracks money in politics.

The records show Boehner held $15,000 to $50,000 worth of Covidien stock in his individual retirement account on Dec. 31, 2013, when each share was worth $68.10.

After the Medtronic deal was announced on June 15, Covidien shares rose 20 percent in a day to $86.75.

Boehner sold $15,000 to $50,000 on June 24, when the closing price was $90.54. Covidien closed at $87.53 in trading yesterday in New York.

The Covidien sale was one of eight transactions the speaker has reported this year. It can’t be determined from the public filings whether he sold his entire holding.
370 Trades

In addition, Boehner held $15,000 to $50,000 in Medtronic shares, which he bought on May 30, 2013, when the stock closed at $52. Medtronic closed at $63.63 in trading yesterday in New York.

Boehner’s net worth as of Dec. 31 was $2.3 million to $6.7 million, according to his public disclosure.

Camp, who has reported 370 stock trades this year, sold Covidien shares on June 17, two days after the merger announcement. The closing price that day was $88.12, a 49 percent increase from its value on May 24, 2013, the day it was purchased.

Camp’s wealth is held in a variety of accounts, including some belonging to his children and some to trusts affiliated with his wife’s family.

Camp, whose net worth is $6.9 million to $23.6 million, has increased his holding in Medtronic this year, including on May 20, before the merger was disclosed, and then on June 30, after the announcement, when he bought another $5,000 to $75,000.
Other Lawmakers

As of Dec. 31, Camp had investments in two other companies involved in inversions: Abbott Laboratories and AbbVie.

Other lawmakers on tax-writing committees have invested in companies involved in inversion transactions.

Representative Jim Renacci, an Ohio Republican, owns shares of Abbott, AbbVie and Applied Materials Inc. Renacci has bought shares of AbbVie seven times this year, including after the July 18 inversion announcement.

Other members with holdings or trades in such companies include Senator Tom Carper, a Delaware "Democrat" (DLC shitbag); Senator Richard Burr, a North Carolina Republican; and Republican Representatives Kenny Marchant of Texas and Mike Kelly of Pennsylvania.

To contact the reporter on this story: Richard Rubin in Washington at rrubin12@bloomberg.net

To contact the editors responsible for this story: Jodi Schneider at jschneider50@bloomberg.net Mark McQuillan, Justin Blum

[DONNIEP]

says the cilantro soap lover...

Them's fightin' words!

[cadaverdog]

I was mainly talking about the quality of the food, comparing them to Hardees.
I never ate at Hardees before they became Carl's Jr with a different name. I think Carl's is a few rungs up the ladder from BK. After one of the meat scares years ago all the BKs out here started cooking their meat longer and it was always too charred around the outside for my liking. I still like their chicken sandwich even though I don't think they're worth what they charge for them. I'm a tight ass when it comes to fast food anyway. I'll buy something on sale or something I have a coupon instead of a more expensive item I'd rather eat.

[cadaverdog]

Brazer DQ is the best for burgers and shit!
There's not many around here anymore outside of the few in combo restaraunts. There's one on Van Nuys Blvd a couple miles away but it's real nasty and dirty looking. They always have a "B" or "C" rating from the health dept. There's one in Burbank that's alright but that's probably ten miles away. Where I used to live there's still a Foster's Freeze. They're about the same as DQ. They used to have a few Tastee Freeze's around here too but the only one I know about now is probably 30 miles south of here in Norwalk.

[Nickdfresh]

I don't know what BK does there, but here some of their locations are in leased buildings, with a requirement to remodel every so many years. Maybe it's a corporate thing, I dunno. Any other franchise owns the building and land, and will remodel or tear down and rebuild on the same lot. We're on our third McD's on the same lot, second Taco Bell across from it. I know of three local BK's that have closed up, leaving empty buildings.

There's one Hardee's near me, and I know there's a couple on the turnpike. Rally's went in not far from Hardee's and I would much rather go to Rally's.

I remember reading that Tim's liked it's US stores to be within "driving distance" of Canada. We don't have any here but there's one in Toledo...I think the drive from here to Niagara is about the same as the drive from south Toledo 'burbs to Windsor. Think I've been to Tim's once, in Montreal.

When I say there's a Tim's here on virtually every major corner, I shit you not. You literally cannot go in a 5 mile radius without running into one. The greater township I live in has at least 5 stores to handle a population of 57,000 or so. That doesn't count the ones just beyond the borders, and there is at least one in every municipality here, if not more. I can't think of more than 5 Duncan Donuts locations for the entire area...

They almost partnered with Wendy's to open a mega store in an abandoned K-mart, but that went tits' up. There are no duel store Tim Hortons here I think...

[jacksmar]

Spoken like a true hardcore fascist, educated in BCE occupied Florida. You don't understand that mandated purchase of something from private corporations is the polar opposite of "communism".

dodge, allow me to over simplify for the many, many simps.

"The oppression of finance capital keeps growing. Giant monopolies controlling the bulk of social production dominate the life of the nation. A handful of millionaires and multi-millionaires wield arbitrary power over the entire wealth of the capitalist world and make the life of entire nations mere small change in their selfish deals. The financial oligarchy is getting fabulously rich."

now we all know where ows and so many simps here stand. so what private company mandates my purchases of Chinese food?

p f changs?

[Nickdfresh]

I was wrong, there's at least 8 if you count the ones inside other stores. They do share space with "Cold Stone Creamery" ice cream stores here as well...

[jacksmar]

Asscrackasmr will never have any understanding of political ideologies other than what his corporate talk show masters tell him. Oh, and his lame-ass Google searches.

kristy, do you understand show your tits? really how truly retarded are you? just show us your tits....................

[FORD]

dodge, allow me to over simplify for the many, many simps.

"The oppression of finance capital keeps growing. Giant monopolies controlling the bulk of social production dominate the life of the nation. A handful of millionaires and multi-millionaires wield arbitrary power over the entire wealth of the capitalist world and make the life of entire nations mere small change in their selfish deals. The financial oligarchy is getting fabulously rich."

now we all know where ows and so many simps here stand. so what private company mandates my purchases of Chinese food?

p f changs?

Hopefully not Panda Express. That shit is awful :puke:

[FORD]

I was wrong, there's at least 8 if you count the ones inside other stores. They do share space with "Cold Stone Creamery" ice cream stores here as well...

That partnership was probably a pre-emptive strike against Dunkin Donuts teaming up with Baskin Robbins, believing that they would co-locate themselves. Of course that's before that combined company was bought up by a joint partnership of Bain Capital & the Carlyle Group.

Oddly enough, the new Baskin Robbins signs don't spell out the full name, they just use the initials "BR". Maybe they changed the name to "Bush Romney" ice cream to reflect the new ownership, and just went with the initials. I still say Poppy only did this deal so he could import his product from Colombia disguised as powdered sugar.

There is a Coldstone on the east side of town locally, but they don't sell any Tim Horton's stuff there. Still have to drive north of the border to see a Tim Horton's around here. As far as Burger King goes, I think there are still two open here in town. As opposed to 5 or so a few years ago. The one that's closer to my house never seems to have any business. I haven't eaten there in years myself (pretty much gave up on fast food with the exception of Subway and Chipotle, the somewhat "healthier" options.)

[So this is love]

I actually prefer McD's coffee over Tim's...

The donuts WERE good, when they made them fresh in store.

McD`s coffees are the best hot or iced...Tim`s coffees don`t come close and I don`t get why people are lining up for them.

[DONNIEP]

Baskin Robbins has the best peanut butter and chocolate ice cream on the planet. The peanut butter isn't this smooth creamy shit like you get in ice cream at the Walmart. Nah, it's hard chunks of peanut butter. There may very well be CIA smuggled cocaine in it because it's addictive.

[Romeo Delight]

McD`s coffees are the best hot or iced...Tim`s coffees don`t come close and I don`t get why people are lining up for them.

I am not a particular fan of Tim's coffee, but I wouldn't trust anyone's judgement claiming McDonald's was the coffee of choice :yo:

The appeal of Timmy's is that you can go there and spend a reasonable amount of cash and get quality pretty healthy options...

There isn't a focus on supersizing or having a 2 gallon coke with every meal or the ever popular : 'Ya'll want cheese on that?" which is more of a rhetorical question in the US lol.

This news has me worried except for the fact these guys directing the move want to continue making money. If the supply chain from Burger King infects Tim's it will all turn into garbage.

[VAiN]

I'm late to the party here, but who can blame them? If I had a legal way of keeping more of my cash I would too.. I'm sure we all would. What's the big deal? They're not the first to do it.

[cadaverdog]

I'm late to the party here, but who can blame them? If I had a legal way of keeping more of my cash I would too.. I'm sure we all would. What's the big deal? They're not the first to do it.
If the CEO and every everybody else that gets a piece of the profit of BK wants to move to Canada no problem but the money made here off something made here hopefully by legally employed workers should be taxed here. Why not buy an Island that's not within anybody's territorial waters and name it Burger King Island, build one Burger King and claim that's home? Then they wouldn't have to pay anybody taxes.
I totally get what you're saying but that still doesn't make it right. That's alot of US dollars out of Uncle Sam's pocket.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

If the CEO and every everybody else that get's a piece of the profit of BK wants to move to Canada no problem but the money made here off something made here hopefully by legally employed workers should be taxed here. Why not buy an Island that's not within anybody's territorial waters and name it Burger King Island, build one Burger King and claim that's home? Then they wouldn't have to pay anybody taxes.

burger king island would be cool

[FORD]

I'm late to the party here, but who can blame them? If I had a legal way of keeping more of my cash I would too.. I'm sure we all would. What's the big deal? They're not the first to do it.

The big deal is that this country is literally falling apart. Every road. Every bridge. Every power plant and the entire power grid. And why isn't it being replaced, or at least repaired?

Because corporations and the rich are not paying their fucking taxes, and haven't paid them in 33 years. And while they are dodging their own taxes, they are outsourcing all the (formerly) middle class jobs to third world cheap labor shitholes. So the rapidly shrinking middle class isn't large enough to carry the tax burden of the rich & corporate tax dodgers.

And the people working at Burger King. Or Wal Mart. Or Walgreens (since they recently tried to pull a similar scam) don't make enough money to carry the tax burden of the greedy rich fucks.

So should they be allowed to openly commit economic treason? FUCK NO.

[VAiN]

The big deal is that this country is literally falling apart. Every road. Every bridge. Every power plant and the entire power grid. And why isn't it being replaced, or at least repaired?

Because corporations and the rich are not paying their fucking taxes, and haven't paid them in 33 years. And while they are dodging their own taxes, they are outsourcing all the (formerly) middle class jobs to third world cheap labor shitholes. So the rapidly shrinking middle class isn't large enough to carry the tax burden of the rich & corporate tax dodgers.

And the people working at Burger King. Or Wal Mart. Or Walgreens (since they recently tried to pull a similar scam) don't make enough money to carry the tax burden of the greedy rich fucks.

So should they be allowed to openly commit economic treason? FUCK NO.

I'm not disagreeing - I'm just saying it's legal - who can fault them. I hope to one day have to hide my wealth..

[cadaverdog]

The big deal is that this country is literally falling apart. Every road. Every bridge. Every power plant and the entire power grid. And why isn't it being replaced, or at least repaired?

Because corporations and the rich are not paying their fucking taxes, and haven't paid them in 33 years. And while they are dodging their own taxes, they are outsourcing all the (formerly) middle class jobs to third world cheap labor shitholes. So the rapidly shrinking middle class isn't large enough to carry the tax burden of the rich & corporate tax dodgers.

And the people working at Burger King. Or Wal Mart. Or Walgreens (since they recently tried to pull a similar scam) don't make enough money to carry the tax burden of the greedy rich fucks.

So should they be allowed to openly commit economic treason? FUCK NO.
It hurts me to say this. You're right. They should raise taxes on the rich and make anybody who makes over a certain amount do community service once in a while to keep them from being such assholes.

[cadaverdog]

burger king island would be cool
If there's only going to be one restaurant I'd pick something with a little more variety. Free Hometown Buffet Island.

[FORD]

If the CEO and every everybody else that gets a piece of the profit of BK wants to move to Canada no problem but the money made here off something made here hopefully by legally employed workers should be taxed here. Why not buy an Island that's not within anybody's territorial waters and name it Burger King Island, build one Burger King and claim that's home? Then they wouldn't have to pay anybody taxes.
I totally get what you're saying but that still doesn't make it right. That's alot of US dollars out of Uncle Sam's pocket.

Exactly. There shouldn't be any such thing as a "multinational corporation". If a corporation wants to sell their products in another country, they can form a separate corporation in that country and do business there. If Burger King wants to sell burgers in Canada, OK. As long as they have a separate Canadian corporation to do it. If Tim Horton's wants to peddle coffee and donuts in the US, same thing. I'd love to see them put Dunkin Donuts out of business. But enough already with the consolidation, the tax-dodging, and the global predatory capitalist bullshit.

[ELVIS]

How 'bout you stop complaining and just refrain from eating their garbage ??

[ELVIS]

The big deal is that this country is literally falling apart. Every road. Every bridge. Every power plant and the entire power grid. And why isn't it being replaced, or at least repaired?



What for ??

There's no jobs to drive to...

[cadaverdog]

How do Canadian personal income tax rates compare to US rates for high income taxpayers? Higher, Lower?

[Angel]

How do Canadian personal income tax rates compare to US rates for high income taxpayers? Higher, Lower?
I believe our rates are higher, but I'm not certain. I wonder if our corporate rates will increase once we have a new government? The possibility certainly exists under the liberals or new dem's.

Of course, once you factor in our "free" health care, the higher tax rates may be less than your taxes and insurance premiums combined...

[ELVIS]

Exactly. There shouldn't be any such thing as a "multinational corporation". If a corporation wants to sell their products in another country, they can form a separate corporation in that country and do business there. If Burger King wants to sell burgers in Canada, OK. As long as they have a separate Canadian corporation to do it. If Tim Horton's wants to peddle coffee and donuts in the US, same thing. I'd love to see them put Dunkin Donuts out of business. But enough already with the consolidation, the tax-dodging, and the global predatory capitalist bullshit.

It's a global economy now...

Get used to it...

The window of opportunity to reel in the global bullshit left with Ross Perot...

Nobody listened...

[cadaverdog]

I believe our rates are higher, but I'm not certain. I wonder if our corporate rates will increase once we have a new government? The possibility certainly exists under the liberals or new dem's.

Of course, once you factor in our "free" health care, the higher tax rates may be less than your taxes and insurance premiums combined...
I was asking about the tax rates for higher income taxpayers. By higher income I mean people who make so much money the cost of health care is chump change to them.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

burger king island would be cool

http://hsrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=A2KJyxA6Kv1Ty9kA7kmbvZx4;_ylu=X3oDMTc1Mzk1b29 xBGEDMTQwODI2IGhvbWVzIGFiYW5kb25lZCBicml0aXNoIGZvc nQgcARhaWQDaWQtMzUwNzg1MwRjY29kZQNnYQRjcG9zAzEEZWQ DMQRnA2Y0ZjY5MjFjLTU3MTUtMzUxZC04MDQ4LTQxMmZiZWEyZ WZmNwRpbnRsA3VzBGl0YwMwBHBrZ3QDMQRwa2d2AzkEcG9zAzI EcgNEY2wyVXNBVit1M3J2UjA2a3NzK0xROExOYjFOSkplVVBRP T0Ec2VjA3RkLWZlYQRzbGsDdGl0bGUEdGVzdAM5MDEEd29lAzI 0NDM5NDU-/RV=1/RE=1410309947/RH=aHNyZC55YWhvby5jb20-/RO=2/RU=aHR0cHM6Ly9ob21lcy55YWhvby5jb20vYmxvZ3Mvc3BhY2V zL25vLS0xLXRoYW1lcy1ncmFpbi10b3dlci1iYXR0ZXJ5LWFiY W5kb25lZC0xOXRoLWNlbnR1cnktZm9ydC1mb3Itc2FsZS0xOTE 3NTY4NDkuaHRtbA--/RS=%5EADAg5PXFjOlBlRpxxr44OoQFPoV0jE-

[ELVIS]

I was asking about the tax rates for higher income taxpayers. By higher income I mean people who make so much money the cost of health care is chump change to them.

Chump change is what you buy your overpriced beer with...

High income doesn't apply to you...

Next question...

[FORD]

It's a global economy now...

Get used to it...

The window of opportunity to reel in the global bullshit left with Ross Perot...

Nobody listened...

Well, if that's the case, then how about a global IRS to tax these treasonous fucks?

[FORD]

Chump change is what you buy your overpriced beer with...

High income doesn't apply to you...

Next question...

C-dog doesn't buy overpriced beer. You must have missed his thread about Big Lots vodka.

Overpriced beer is my department. I'm drinking one right now :gulp:

[ELVIS]

Well, if that's the case, then how about a global IRS to tax these treasonous fucks?

I'm sure that's coming...

Along with the global carbon tax...

Fuck this bullshit !!

Wake up, people !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guitar Shark]

C-dog doesn't buy overpriced beer. You must have missed his thread about Big Lots vodka.


Big Lots accepts food stamps now?

[ELVIS]

C-dog doesn't buy overpriced beer. You must have missed his thread about Big Lots vodka.

Overpriced beer is my department. I'm drinking one right now :gulp:

I don't know why...

Hey, have you tried a 'Legal' yet ??

[FORD]

Big Lots accepts food stamps now?

I have no idea, but where can you buy vodka with food stamps? Technically, it's a vegetable product, so you should be able to, I guess.

[Guitar Shark]

If there's a way, couchfucker will find it.

[cadaverdog]

C-dog doesn't buy overpriced beer. You must have missed his thread about Big Lots vodka.

Damn straight I don't. I remember seeing cheap wine at Big Lots but no hard liquor. I might have said you might as well buy vodka from Big Lots because it all tastes sort of like rubbing alcohol to me. I can handle it with a little OJ but it's not my favorite booze.

[FORD]

I don't know why...

Hey, have you tried a 'Legal' yet ??

Is that a brand of beer, or are you asking if I have purchased any newly legal herbal products?

The answer to both is no.... so far, there's only one legal weed shop in town and it's way the Hell on the east end of town, and I don't get out there all that often. Not to mention that it's not actually open very often, due to the short supply. Goddamn, they fucked this rollout up, compared to Colorado.

[ELVIS]

C'mon dude, get with the times...

Legal!!! (http://mirthprovisions.com/products/)

[cadaverdog]

Big Lots accepts food stamps now?
Couldn't tell ya. Don't shop there. Don't get food stamps. They don't give out food stamps in California anymore. They give out debit cards. I don't qualify for them. I have a job. Put ya on ignore dipshit. Bye.

[ELVIS]

Too bad...

Maybe you should fall for the bullshit and quit...

[FORD]

C'mon dude, get with the times...

Legal!!! (http://mirthprovisions.com/products/)

Ah...ok. I heard something about this earlier today, but the story came from the Telegraph in the UK (ironically enough) so being a tabloid paper, I thought they probably got the story wrong. They mentioned "fizzy drinks with cannabis extract" and mentioned that they were supposedly on sale in Washington state now, which I thought was a little suspect, given that last I heard, the hurdles the state was imposing to get edibles on the market were fairly high, and they were projecting it would be several months before they would make it into the stores.

Now that I see the brand is "homegrown" (er, so to speak) it makes more sense that they could clear those hurdles faster. Looks like an interesting idea. I'll probably try them..... as long as there's not any high fructose corn poison in it, of course!

[ELVIS]

I'm trying to make an excuse to visit my sister in Federal Way...;)

[ELVIS]

as long as there's not any high fructose corn poison in it, of course!

There is not !!!

[Seshmeister]

Ah...ok. I heard something about this earlier today, but the story came from the Telegraph in the UK (ironically enough) so being a tabloid paper, I thought they probably got the story wrong.

I'm not a fan of the Telegraph, it's the most conservative of the UK newspapers, but it's not a tabloid.

[Seshmeister]

I'm trying to make an excuse to visit my sister in Federal Way...;)


Is that a euphemism? :D

[FORD]

I'm not a fan of the Telegraph, it's the most conservative of the UK newspapers, but it's not a tabloid.

OK... I must have been confusing it with the Daily Mail or something.

[lesfunk]

Burger King is not my laxative of choice

[Angel]

I was asking about the tax rates for higher income taxpayers. By higher income I mean people who make so much money the cost of health care is chump change to them.
Yes, they pay more...but they also have more loopholes, and the richest have offshore accounts in order to evade taxes...just like you guys, lol.

[WACF]

I was asking about the tax rates for higher income taxpayers. By higher income I mean people who make so much money the cost of health care is chump change to them.

Just general info...

Federal tax rates for 2014

•15% on the first $43,953 of taxable income, +
•22% on the next $43,954 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $43,953 up to $87,907), +
•26% on the next $48,363 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $87,907 up to $136,270), +
•29% of taxable income over $136,270.


Higher income is kinda a wide brush...some consider 100,000 high income.


Like Angel posted...the higher income people that own a business can find more ways of dodging.

In good years Farmers here can make out like bandits too...a lot of new paint in the fields this year.
Bad years can take their toll too though...

The thing too with health care costs...it is really a non issue on your paycheque...you just do not see it...it is in your tax rate.

On top of the Federal rate each province has it's additional tax rates.

Where I live...

Saskatchewan

Tax Rates on
Taxable Income 11.0% on first $43,292
13.0% on next $80,400
15.0% on any remainder

Then of course there are your personal and dependent deductions...

[cadaverdog]

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm
Here's the rates for the US. I think personal income taxes are higher here for higher income tax payers.
I brought this up because I was wondering if the members of upper management of Burger King are planning on moving there too. I guess it depends on which country has the largest loopholes in their tax codes.

[Guitar Shark]

Put ya on ignore dipshit. Bye.

How will I ever recover from such a terrible injustice?

[WACF]

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm
Here's the rates for the US. I think personal income taxes are higher here for higher income tax payers.
I brought this up because I was wondering if the members of upper management of Burger King are planning on moving there too. I guess it depends on which country has the largest loopholes in their tax codes.


I am sure the big brass will stay right where they are.

Behind the scenes I would guess that the Canadian Head office will be operated more as a satellite office.

[ELVIS]

Why would someone come to a forum and put everyone on ignore ??

[Von Halen]

The new dark roast at Tim Hortons is phenomenal!

[ELVIS]

Phenomenal ??

I highly doubt that...

[Nickdfresh]

The new dark roast at Tim Hortons is phenomenal!

I'll look for it at one of the 80 locations within a mile of my house...

[WACF]

Phenomenal ??

I highly doubt that...

How about pretty fuckin' good!

I like it...therefore it must be awesome...

[cadaverdog]

The new dark roast at Tim Hortons is phenomenal!
I misread this. I thought it said dark toast.

[cadaverdog]

I'll look for it at one of the 80 locations within a mile of my house...
Then it's like Starbucks here. Around LAX they have one at damn near every main street intersection. They're spaced out a little farther here in the valley. One every mile or so in some areas.

[FORD]

Or like Circle K's in Arizona. Don't think they build them as fast as they used to, but for a while there, it seemed like there was one on about every third intersection.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

Or like Circle K's in Arizona. Don't think they build them as fast as they used to, but for a while there, it seemed like there was one on about every third intersection.

still aplenty. the sad growth was all the cvs/walgreens/rite aid battles a few years back :( mucho mucho empty boxes that turn to halloween stores for a month...

[lesfunk]

I misread this. I thought it said dark toast.

Dark toast would be Snoop Dogg

[FORD]

I suspsect Snoop would approve of a microbrewery in Missoula MT, where they make a porter called "Old Bongwater" :littlebong: :gulp:

[Guitar Shark]

Damn, I was in Missoula a couple of months ago and had no idea such a fine product was available.

[FORD]

Haven't tried it yet myself, just read about it. It does actually contain hemp, but it's the non THC variety. Same with Humboldt Hemp Ale in Northern CA, which is actually a decent beer. They claim there's no THC in that stuff either, but I found it oddly more "relaxing" than other beers. And it IS Humboldt country, so who knows...... :gulp:

[cadaverdog]

I suspsect Snoop would approve of a microbrewery in Missoula MT, where they make a porter called "Old Bongwater" :littlebong: :gulp:
I've had old bongwater before. Had a few sips earlier. Not very tasty.

[cadaverdog]

Haven't tried it yet myself, just read about it. It does actually contain hemp, but it's the non THC variety. Same with Humboldt Hemp Ale in Northern CA, which is actually a decent beer. They claim there's no THC in that stuff either, but I found it oddly more "relaxing" than other beers. And it IS Humboldt country, so who knows...... :gulp:
I read up on hemp once. Never realized hops, hemp and weed were family. One of the articles said hemp and hops may contain "negligible amounts" of THC. I've smoked weed that only had "negligible amounts" of THC in it. Smoked the whole bag and all I got was a headache. The good old days.

[FORD]

Yeah, I think I had some of that shit in high school. Or not so high school, considering it was bad weed. One of my asshole friends gave me a joint that was parsely or some shit like that and hoped I wouldn't know the difference. If I had actually paid him for it, I probably would have beat his ass for that. But it was free, so I just laughed it off. I got back at him for it some way, but damned if I remember how...... this being like 1981 or so.

[cadaverdog]

Yeah, I think I had some of that shit in high school. Or not so high school, considering it was bad weed. One of my asshole friends gave me a joint that was parsely or some shit like that and hoped I wouldn't know the difference. If I had actually paid him for it, I probably would have beat his ass for that. But it was free, so I just laughed it off. I got back at him for it some way, but damned if I remember how...... this being like 1981 or so.
I got some smoke for my boss in a friend of a friend deal. I got some too. Looked and smelled excellent. Must have been boiled or hemp. Didn't do shit. I got the rest of the bag back for my Christmas bonus.

[Angel]

A neighbour years back was all excited because he discovered and stole a big crop of plants...idiot didn't know it was a hemp farm, lol.

[cadaverdog]

A neighbour years back was all excited because he discovered and stole a big crop of plants...idiot didn't know it was a hemp farm, lol.
You don't find hemp growing wild in Southern California. But it used to make it's way here. I found a big patch of it near Boise Idaho when I was there in the late 70s. Looked like pot to me. I could have sold a few pounds of it in So Cal before anybody figured it out around that time. Looked better than the brown stuff we called breath stink coming up from Mexico. Better than the stuff that smelled like diesel fuel too.

[Angel]

Wasn't wild...was an experimental government farm, lol

[cadaverdog]

Wasn't wild...was an experimental government farm, lol
Hemp was the reason marijuana was made illegal here. There too maybe. You can make too much stuff with it somebody wanted to make with something else like rope and paper.

[cadaverdog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history_of_cannabis_in_Canada
I know Wiki can be unreliable but according to this marijuana laws were instituted in Canada to protect white women from people of other races that might harm them while under the influence of drugs including marijuana.

[Angel]

You should've read further...we just followed the trend...

[cadaverdog]

You should've read further...we just followed the trend...
The first part's the real truth. The last part's the unreliable stuff.

[FORD]

Hemp was the reason marijuana was made illegal here. There too maybe. You can make too much stuff with it somebody wanted to make with something else like rope and paper.

The oil industry had a part in it as well. Old Henry Ford (no relation) wanted to run his cars on hemp based fuels, and even build the bodies out of hemp fiber.

It's a good thing Karl Benz lived in Germany, or they probably would have banned peanuts here too (Benz wanted his cars to run on peanut-based biodiesel.)

[Angel]

My grandfather wouldn't have liked that. He was an Alberta oil pioneer...

[cadaverdog]

My grandfather wouldn't have liked that. He was an Alberta oil pioneer...
He would have liked hemp being outlawed here and there if he was in the oil business. Hemp based fuel would be an easily renewable resource. It would probably bring oil prices way down.

[tbone888]

I find it hard to believe that a major corporation would leave a country like the US. I've always heard, even though US corporate tax rates are the highest in the world, companies in America (with all the endless loopholes), actually pay little or no taxes. I guess the tax rates in Canada, when combined with their loopholes, end up being negative rates? hmmm smh

[Nickdfresh]

I think I heard they intend to still pay taxes here, IDK...

[Nitro Express]

The US has the highest corporate tax rate. You would go to another country as well if you could save 50% or more on your taxes. The solution is we just need to lower the corporate tax rate and collect. Collecting a lower rate beats not collecting at at. Some say our high corporate tax rate is the result of large companies like General Electric wanting a high tax rate because they can afford it and potential competitors can't. It keeps the big boys entrenched and any new start up companies can't compete. So the high tax rate is a form of corporate fascism closing access to the US market.

[Nickdfresh]

The US has the highest corporate tax rate. You would go to another country as well if you could save 50% or more on your taxes. The solution is we just need to lower the corporate tax rate and collect. Collecting a lower rate beats not collecting at at. Some say our high corporate tax rate is the result of large companies like General Electric wanting a high tax rate because they can afford it and potential competitors can't. It keeps the big boys entrenched and any new start up companies can't compete. So the high tax rate is a form of corporate fascism closing access to the US market.


My, what a schizo man you are. Firstly, multinational corporations own us and the banks are the devil, but then our tax rate is too high for the poor w'ittle companies too stupid to bribe the right politicians...

[Nickdfresh]

I do think the corporate tax rate should be lowered into the 20+% range, but all loopholes should be slammed shut. If you use the country's infrastructure and lucrative market, you're fucking paying!!..

[Nitro Express]

The big deal is that this country is literally falling apart. Every road. Every bridge. Every power plant and the entire power grid. And why isn't it being replaced, or at least repaired?

Because corporations and the rich are not paying their fucking taxes, and haven't paid them in 33 years. And while they are dodging their own taxes, they are outsourcing all the (formerly) middle class jobs to third world cheap labor shitholes. So the rapidly shrinking middle class isn't large enough to carry the tax burden of the rich & corporate tax dodgers.

And the people working at Burger King. Or Wal Mart. Or Walgreens (since they recently tried to pull a similar scam) don't make enough money to carry the tax burden of the greedy rich fucks.

So should they be allowed to openly commit economic treason? FUCK NO.

The corporations not paying tax puts the tax load on the middle class. Also a big part of the problem is 63% of our tax revenue goes to fund the military. A military that enforces the will of banks and multinational corporations. So the US is just a big piggy bank for multinational corporations who are using economic warfare to take over the world. If you want to be independent of the Bretton Woods financial system and have the assets to do it, you get invaded and your country gets fleeced and ruined. Just ask Libya.

It's about central banking monopolies and affiliated multinationals. Not countries. The corporations have become more powerful and they have infiltrated the political system. It's just like the old East India Company. They have their private mercenaries and if need be, they have the political pull to bring in the military if need be. Hell corporations are still running opium wars. The poppies are grown in Afghanistan and the smack is sold. HSBC and Wells Fargo launder the money. It flows in.

The US has been the target of outside interests for a long time and the problem is, we let them in and we let them screw us and we get the blame when it's masterminded from outside the country. We are like the rich uncle the nephew slips something into his drink and keeps drugged up while he takes money out of his uncle's wallet.

[Nitro Express]

The oil industry had a part in it as well. Old Henry Ford (no relation) wanted to run his cars on hemp based fuels, and even build the bodies out of hemp fiber.

It's a good thing Karl Benz lived in Germany, or they probably would have banned peanuts here too (Benz wanted his cars to run on peanut-based biodiesel.)

I have a couple old Fords from the 20's and one from 1930. They all are flex fuel. They will run on either petroleum or ethanol. There's a variable diameter valve on the carburetor that you open up on a cold start. You put whatever fuel you are using in the tank. You open the valve one whole turn. Delay the spark with the lever up on the steering column. Open the throttle a tad. Hit the starter (or turn the hand crank if you are adventurous) and hopefully it will start. Fords usually do if they are maintained. Then you advance the spark to where the engine runs smooth and as the engine warms up you close the valve to where it runs lean but you still have torque. You can play with the valve on long highway trips to get the best mileage.

I just put new Coker tires on my Model A and I'm amazed at how good it rides. Under 40 it holds it's own with any modern car. It redlines around 50 MPH. LOL! I had to get some new breaker points for it and the guys in the Model A club said get Ford points. I went to the dealer and holy heck, I still could order points for a 1930 Deluxe Coupe. I ordered a bunch of them. The aftermarket ones wear down and are lousy quality.

I'm restoring a coil box for a Model T truck. I have original Ford buzz coils in the wood boxes from the 1920's. Most of them still work. Ford built quality stuff. If you drill the steel on one of these old Fords, you better have good drill bits. It's good steel.

[Nitro Express]

My, what a schizo man you are. Firstly, multinational corporations own us and the banks are the devil, but then our tax rate is too high for the poor w'ittle companies too stupid to bribe the right politicians...

Dude get off the sauce. You are the one who's dazed and confused.

[Nickdfresh]

Dude get off the sauce. You are the one who's dazed and confused.

Am I? On my sloppiest, worst day I'm far more lucent that you, bud...

[cadaverdog]

I have a couple old Fords from the 20's and one from 1930.
I haven't had a decent job in years and I have a much newer car. :hee:

[Nickdfresh]

I haven't had a decent job in years and I have a much newer car. :hee:

He uses those to cart around his heaping mounds of bullshit...

[cadaverdog]

Am I? On my sloppiest, worst day I'm far more obnoxious that you, bud...
Fixed.

[Nickdfresh]

Go fuck a duck, c-dog...

[cadaverdog]

Go fuck a duck, c-dog...
I'll pass. I choke my chicken but otherwise I'm not into fowl.

[Nickdfresh]

You're foul, not fowl...

[Nitro Express]

I haven't had a decent job in years and I have a much newer car. :hee:

Don't laugh. It's paid for and has no rust.