I don't get it...

[howie]

Someone in your government felt the need to tell the world about torturing those who killed your people (post 911) and continue to kill your people (beheadings)...?

"Torture is an impermissible evil. Except under two circumstances. The first is the ticking time bomb. An innocent's life is at stake. The bad guy you have captured possesses information that could save this life. He refuses to divulge. In such a case, the choice is easy"
(Charles Krauthammer)

None of my business maybe but I guess all of us outsiders are surprised why someone needed to put a target on your backs for something that never needed to be said...

(I still don't get it)

[FORD]

Krauthammer is part of the treasonous PNAC cabal who created this situation. And every last one of them should be tried for war crimes, just like Grandpa Prescott's buddys were at Nuremburg.

As the only sane person who works for FAUX Noize once put it.... "We are AMERICA. We do NOT fucking torture!!"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzfQuIgpW6o

[howie]

No one needed to know about it is all I'm sayin'...right or wrong as opinions may be, desperate times call for desperate measures and it should never have been made public. It makes us wonder what the real agenda is I spose...

[Seshmeister]

"Torture is an impermissible evil. Except under two circumstances. The first is the ticking time bomb. An innocent's life is at stake. The bad guy you have captured possesses information that could save this life. He refuses to divulge. In such a case, the choice is easy"
(Charles Krauthammer)


That's only one circumstance and it only happens in the movies.

Even the fucking Romans knew that torture didn't work, they just tell you what you want to hear like 'Ok if you say so Iraq does has WMDs you should invade!'.

You started a thread because you don't understand why anyone should know if the US government systematically tortured hundreds of people?

[ELVIS]

Torture is illegal, immoral and wrong...

It's also been proven unreliable for information gathering...

[ZahZoo]

Simple explanation for ya...

As sophisticated and intelligent as we, the human race, "think" we are or want to convince ourselves otherwise... at our core we're still barbaric, fucking animals capable of inflicting pain, suffering and death to any other living thing on Earth in any way our imaginations can conceive...

It's who we are... and some of our tribe feel a need to point out the facts.

We haven't evolved out of this mode in several thousand years despite what we've purportedly learned, developed record keeping and global communication in that time. Maybe there's hope... we'll move out of this mode in the next millennium or two rather than just continuing to develop improved ways to kill or harm others...

[ELVIS]

Maybe there's hope...

There is...

Jesus Christ, Our Hope...

1st Timothy 1:1

[ZahZoo]

I get the sentiment... but that program has been the least effective in curbing the issue in the last 2000 years... not to mention it's been a motivating force for human carnage in too many instances to be considered a viable option for halting it.

Doing the same thing, expecting a different result doesn't seem like a wise approach...

[ELVIS]

I get the sentiment... but that program has been the least effective in curbing the issue in the last 2000 years...

That's because people are stupid...

Like Jesus said on the cross...

"Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."

[FORD]

That's because people are stupid...

Like Jesus said on the cross...

"Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."

Yeah.... Jesus died from an extreme form of torture. And has since had to watch countless numbers of idiots committing torture in His name. :(

[ELVIS]

Yeah, like you, David...

Just seeing that you're online is torture...


:finger33:

[ELVIS]

Yeah.... Jesus died from an extreme form of torture.

And that's bullshit as well, you asshole...

Jesus died to become the ultimate and final sacrifice, the perfect (without blemish) sacrifice for our sins...

And don't you forget it!


:finger33:

[FORD]

So being beaten, whipped, having a crown of thorns jammed on your head, and being nailed to a cross in such a manner that brings about slow painful asphyxiation doesn't meet your standards of torture?

[ZahZoo]

That's because people are stupid...

Like Jesus said on the cross...

"Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."

Sorry... that lame excuse doesn't cut it. It's blatantly not the case, today.

Just the subject at hand... US torture of alleged terrorists/combatants since 9/11. That whole mess was reviewed, approved, ordered, condoned and carried out by fully educated, intelligent people. Every one who had a hand in it... didn't engage in the acts through ignorance.

What's worse given your angle on it... most, if not all, of those involved in carrying it out are all alleged Jesus loving, Christians. These weren't rogue atheists in charge and carrying out these things. Not fanatical Muslims either...

Like I said... the Jesus program is not an effective solution to this problem.

[Seshmeister]

Doing the same thing, expecting a different result doesn't seem like a wise approach...

It's a famous quote...



Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein

[ELVIS]

Sorry... that lame excuse doesn't cut it. It's blatantly not the case, today.



Oh, yes it is...

But oh well, I guess...

"To each his own", as a blind pastor recently said to me when I tried to set her straight on the tyranny of Obamacare...

[ELVIS]

It's a famous quote...

Do you really think you have to explain such a common quote ??

[ELVIS]

So being beaten, whipped, having a crown of thorns jammed on your head, and being nailed to a cross in such a manner that brings about slow painful asphyxiation doesn't meet your standards of torture?

It's nothing compared to where you're headed...

[Seshmeister]

Do you really think you have to explain such a common quote ??

To an insane person? :)

[ELVIS]

ZahZzz is insane now ??

[TFM_Dale]

ZahZzz is insane now ??

I think still is the word you were looking for.

[ELVIS]

I've never thought of ZZzz as insane...

I mean, compared to Piersmeister, he's quite humble, friendly and informative...

He needs to quit that ecig bullshit though...

[Kristy]

So Trollvis, what did you do today (all day) that you can say brought any significant production in your life?

[ELVIS]

Still jealous ??

Don't worry about me, scum, my business is private...

[Kristy]

So, you did nothing productive with your life today. Thanks, I'll ask you the same question tomorrow.

[ELVIS]

:yawn:

[howie]

Simple explanation for ya...

As sophisticated and intelligent as we, the human race, "think" we are or want to convince ourselves otherwise... at our core we're still barbaric, fucking animals capable of inflicting pain, suffering and death to any other living thing on Earth in any way our imaginations can conceive...

It's who we are... and some of our tribe feel a need to point out the facts.

We haven't evolved out of this mode in several thousand years despite what we've purportedly learned, developed record keeping and global communication in that time. Maybe there's hope... we'll move out of this mode in the next millennium or two rather than just continuing to develop improved ways to kill or harm others...

Bit of a contradiction there no offense - you're saying that at our core we're barbaric animals, etc

What makes you think anything will change in the next millenium or two?

It's like an innate quality that's been around at least since the Romans as someone put it.

I guess what I'm really asking is since atrocities have existed throughout history and the greater good was at stake here, why did your government need to spill their guts on this particular issue and jeopardize all of you folks travelling on an American passport for example?

[howie]

And I'm with you on the hope thing

Amen to that

It's your safety that is at risk at the moment (but has been for quite sometime) and now it seems like gas is being poured on a fire at a time it wasn't needed

No disrespect intended

[ZahZoo]

I think still is the word you were looking for.

Actually my insanity has never been better... New and Improved with Fresh Scent™!! It never sits still...

[ZahZoo]

Bit of a contradiction there no offense - you're saying that at our core we're barbaric animals, etc

What makes you think anything will change in the next millenium or two?

It's like an innate quality that's been around at least since the Romans as someone put it.

I guess what I'm really asking is since atrocities have existed throughout history and the greater good was at stake here, why did your government need to spill their guts on this particular issue and jeopardize all of you folks travelling on an American passport for example?

There's not a simple answer... but disclosing and discussing one's shortcomings is a way to invoke or influence change. It takes a certain amount of bravery and risk to do so... and there can be collateral damage when opening up and laying things bare... But hiding it away won't change anything.

If there's anything of value in examining history... it's to learn and hopefully evolve. Clearly we've not learned enough... but that's no reason to abandon the process of self examination. That's why some chose to "spill their guts" as you say. Additionally there's probably some good measure of politics and power angles in play... but I'll give the benefit of doubt someone in the mix felt it was worth it if we can change for the better going forward.

[ZahZoo]

And I'm with you on the hope thing

Amen to that

It's your safety that is at risk at the moment (but has been for quite sometime) and now it seems like gas is being poured on a fire at a time it wasn't needed

No disrespect intended

No disrespect taken... It's somewhat of an American trait... Taking the safe route to avoid pissing some people or half the world off has never been a popular approach for us.

Go big... or go home!!