‘The Attacks Will Be Spectacular’

[Nickdfresh]

‘The Attacks Will Be Spectacular’
An exclusive look at how the Bush administration ignored this warning from the CIA months before 9/11, along with others that were far more detailed than previously revealed.
By CHRIS WHIPPLE November 12, 2015

“Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” The CIA’s famous Presidential Daily Brief, presented to George W. Bush on August 6, 2001, has always been Exhibit A in the case that his administration shrugged off warnings of an Al Qaeda attack. But months earlier, starting in the spring of 2001, the CIA repeatedly and urgently began to warn the White House that an attack was coming.

By May of 2001, says Cofer Black, then chief of the CIA’s counterterrorism center, “it was very evident that we were going to be struck, we were gonna be struck hard and lots of Americans were going to die.” “There were real plots being manifested,” Cofer’s former boss, George Tenet, told me in his first interview in eight years. “The world felt like it was on the edge of eruption. In this time period of June and July, the threat continues to rise. Terrorists were disappearing [as if in hiding, in preparation for an attack]. Camps were closing. Threat reportings on the rise.” The crisis came to a head on July 10. The critical meeting that took place that day was first reported by Bob Woodward in 2006. Tenet also wrote about it in general terms in his 2007 memoir At the Center of the Storm.

But neither he nor Black has spoken about it publicly in such detail until now—or been so emphatic about how specific and pressing their warnings really were. Over the past eight months, in more than a hundred hours of interviews, my partners Jules and Gedeon Naudet and I talked with Tenet and the 11 other living former CIA directors for The Spymasters, a documentary set to air this month on Showtime.

The drama of failed warnings began when Tenet and Black pitched a plan, in the spring of 2001, called “the Blue Sky paper” to Bush’s new national security team. It called for a covert CIA and military campaign to end the Al Qaeda threat—“getting into the Afghan sanctuary, launching a paramilitary operation, creating a bridge with Uzbekistan.” “And the word back,” says Tenet, “‘was ‘we’re not quite ready to consider this. We don’t want the clock to start ticking.’” (Translation: they did not want a paper trail to show that they’d been warned.) Black, a charismatic ex-operative who had helped the French arrest the terrorist known as Carlos the Jackal, says the Bush team just didn’t get the new threat: “I think they were mentally stuck back eight years . They were used to terrorists being Euro-lefties—they drink champagne by night, blow things up during the day, how bad can this be? And it was a very difficult sell to communicate the urgency to this.”

That morning of July 10, the head of the agency’s Al Qaeda unit, Richard Blee, burst into Black’s office. “And he says, ‘Chief, this is it. Roof's fallen in,’” recounts Black. “The information that we had compiled was absolutely compelling. It was multiple-sourced. And it was sort of the last straw.” Black and his deputy rushed to the director’s office to brief Tenet. All agreed an urgent meeting at the White House was needed. Tenet picked up the white phone to Bush’s National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice. “I said, ‘Condi, I have to come see you,’” Tenet remembers. “It was one of the rare times in my seven years as director where I said, ‘I have to come see you. We're comin' right now. We have to get there.’”

Tenet vividly recalls the White House meeting with Rice and her team. (George W. Bush was on a trip to Boston.) “Rich [Blee] started by saying, ‘There will be significant terrorist attacks against the United States in the coming weeks or months. The attacks will be spectacular. They may be multiple. Al Qaeda's intention is the destruction of the United States.’" [Condi said:] ‘What do you think we need to do?’ Black responded by slamming his fist on the table, and saying, ‘We need to go on a wartime footing now!’”

“What happened?” I ask Cofer Black. “Yeah. What did happen?” he replies. “To me it remains incomprehensible still. I mean, how is it that you could warn senior people so many times and nothing actually happened? It’s kind of like The Twilight Zone.” Remarkably, in her memoir, Condi Rice writes of the July 10 warnings: “My recollection of the meeting is not very crisp because we were discussing the threat every day.” Having raised threat levels for U.S. personnel overseas, she adds: “I thought we were doing what needed to be done.” (When I asked whether she had any further response to the comments that Tenet, Black and others made to me, her chief of staff said she stands by the account in her memoir.) Inexplicably, although Tenet brought up this meeting in his closed-door testimony before the 9/11 Commission, it was never mentioned in the committee’s final report.

And there was one more chilling warning to come. At the end of July, Tenet and his deputies gathered in the director’s conference room at CIA headquarters. “We were just thinking about all of this and trying to figure out how this attack might occur,” he recalls. “And I'll never forget this until the day I die. Rich Blee looked at everybody and said, ‘They're coming here.’ And the silence that followed was deafening. You could feel the oxygen come out of the room. ‘They're coming here.’”

Tenet, who is perhaps the agency’s most embattled director ever, can barely contain himself when talking about the unheeded warnings he says he gave the White House. Twirling an unlit cigar and fidgeting in his chair at our studio in downtown Washington, D.C., he says with resignation: “I can only tell you what we did and what we said.” And when asked about his own responsibility for the attacks on 9/11, he is visibly distraught. “There was never a moment in all this time when you blamed yourself?” I ask him. He shifts uncomfortably in his chair. “Well, look, there … I still look at the ceiling at night about a lot of things. And I'll keep them to myself forever. But we're all human beings."

***

Only 12 men are alive today who have made the life-and-death decisions that come with running the CIA.

Once a year, the present and former CIA directors—ranging from George H.W. Bush, 91, to the current boss, John Brennan, 60—meet in a conference room at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. The ostensible reason: to receive a confidential briefing on the state of the world. (Robert Gates, who hates setting foot inside the Beltway, is a perennial no-show.) “They mostly tell us stuff we already know, and we pretend we’re learning something,” says Tenet, the longest-serving director (lasting seven years, under Presidents Clinton and Bush II). But the real point of their annual pilgrimage is to renew bonds forged in the trenches of the war on terror—and to debate the agency’s purpose in the world.

And I'll never forget this until the day I die. Rich Blee looked at everybody and said, ‘They're coming here.’”
On the burning questions of the day, the directors are profoundly torn: over the CIA’s mission, its brutal interrogation methods after 9/11, and the shifting “rules of engagement” in the battle against Al Qaeda and the Islamic State. What is fair game in the fight against terrorism: Torture? Indefinite detention? Setting up “black sites” in foreign countries for interrogation? Should the CIA be in the business of killing people with remotely piloted drones? Was the agency really to blame for 9/11? Or did the White House ignore its repeated warnings?

On these and other questions, the directors were surprisingly candid in the interviews they did with me—even straying into classified territory. (They often disagree about what is actually classified; it’s complicated, as Hillary Clinton is learning.) A controversial case in point: drone strikes. “He can’t talk publicly about that,” protests Gen. David Petraeus when I tell him that one of his counterparts has opened up to me about “signature strikes.” (These are lethal attacks on unidentified targets—a kind of profiling by drone—that several directors find deeply troubling.) Gen. Petraeus might have had good reason to be reticent; only a week before he had accepted a plea bargain to avoid prison time—for sharing classified information with his mistress, Paula Broadwell.

Here are some of the other secrets we learned from the surprisingly outspoken men who have run the world’s most powerful intelligence agency.

“In the period right after 9/11, we did some things wrong,” said Barack Obama. “We tortured some folks. We did things that were contrary to our values.” Jose Rodriguez, who oversaw the CIA’s so-called enhanced interrogation program (EIT), has a two-word reply: “That’s bullshit.” Tenet concurs. “People are throwing the word ‘torture’ around—as if we're torturers,” he complains. “Well, I'm not ever gonna accept the use of the word ‘torture’ for what happened here.” From sleep deprivation to waterboarding, Tenet and his lieutenant Rodriguez insist the techniques were all approved—by everybody.

“The attorney general of the United States told us that these techniques are legal under U.S. law,” says Tenet, “and do not in any way compromise our adherence to international torture statutes.” Contrary to the claim by the SSCI (Senate Select Committee on Intelligence) Majority Report, Tenet insists: “We briefed members of Congress fully on what we were doing at all times. There was never a hint of disapproval.” And Tenet says that George W. Bush was so hands-on, “he read the memo, looked at the techniques, and decided he was gonna take two techniques off the table himself.” Tenet says he does not recall which EITs the president rejected (Rodriguez believes one of them was “mock executions.”)

Tenet and his post-9/11 successors—Porter Goss, Michael Hayden and acting director Michael Morell (sometimes called the “wartime directors”)—say the techniques were a necessary evil, justified by the context of the times. It was an article of faith at the CIA that the United States was about to be struck again in a “second wave” attack. And that “high-value detainees,” beginning with Al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah, knew more than they were telling. “Every day,” says Rodriguez, “the president was asking George Tenet, ‘What is Abu Zubaydah saying about the second wave of attacks and about all these other plots?’ Well, he was not saying anything. We had to do something different.” Tenet says they had persuasive intelligence that indicated Osama bin Laden had met with Pakistani nuclear scientists—and was seeking the blueprint for a bomb. There was a credible report, he adds, that a nuke had already been planted in New York City. “People say, ‘didn’t you think about the moral and ethical consequences of your decision?’” says Tenet. “Yeah, we did. We thought that stopping the further loss of American life and protecting a just society was equally important.”

Did the techniques produce intelligence that disrupted plots or saved lives? The SSCI study looked at 20 cases and said no useful evidence was obtained. Tenet insists, “They are wrong in all 20 of the cases. The report is dead wrong on every account, period, end of paragraph.” But Tenet’s fellow spy chiefs are sharply—even passionately—divided about such procedures. “Our Constitution does prohibit ‘cruel and unusual’ treatment and if it’s cruel, we shouldn’t be doing it,” says William Webster, 91, regarded by his fellow spymasters as a voice of reason (and the only DCI who also served as FBI director). “You cross a line at some point in your effort to get the information when you go that route. There have to be limitations and monitoring and they must be observed. Our country stands for something and it loses something when we don’t.” Stansfield Turner, now 91—who as Jimmy Carter’s director authorized the ill-fated attempt to rescue American hostages in Tehran—agrees: “I just don’t think a country like ours should be culpable of conducting torture. I just think it’s beneath our dignity.”

The directors who oppose torture are not just bleeding hearts. “Nobody was responsible for more detainees than I was,” says Gen. Petraeus, who was commander of the multinational forces in Iraq. “We visit violence on our enemies, but we should not mistreat them, even though they have done unspeakable things to our soldiers and to civilians. That does not justify us doing it to them. You will pay a price for what you do, and it will be vastly greater than whatever it is you got out of taking this action.” And Director Brennan sees no circumstance in which the CIA would torture again: “If a president tomorrow asked me to waterboard a terrorist, I would say, ‘Mr. President, sorry—I do not believe that is in our best interest as a country.’” Hayden is even more emphatic. “If some future president is going to decide to waterboard,” he says, “he’d better bring his own bucket—because he’s going to have to do it himself.”

...

Chris Whipple is executive producer and writer of The Spymasters: CIA in the Crosshairs, airing on Showtime Nov. 28, 9pm to 11pm EST. He is writing a book on the White House chiefs of staff. His work can be found at www.chriswhipple.net.


[B]CONTINUED (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/11/cia-directors-documentary-911-bush-213353?o=1)

[Nickdfresh]

Ex-CIA Director: White House Ignored Months of Warnings About 9/11 to Avoid Leaving 'Paper Trail' of Culpability
What did they know and when did they know it?
By Tom Boggioni / Raw Story November 14, 2015

In an explosive revelation during an interview with Politico, the former CIA director during President George W. Bush’s administration claims his department informed White house officials over impending Al Qaeda attacks months before the president received the infamous “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” presidential briefing.

Shop ▾
According to ex-CIA head George Tenet and Cofer Black, then chief of the CIA’s counterterrorism center, they called an emergency meeting with National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice on July 10 of 2001 saying they had evidence that an attack on the U.S. was imminent and that it would be “spectacular.”

Beginning in May of 2001, Tenet and Black launched an initiative called “the Blue Sky paper” and pitched it to Bush’s national security team. The CIA called for a joint CIA and military campaign to end the Al Qaeda threat by “getting into the Afghan sanctuary, launching a paramilitary operation, creating a bridge with Uzbekistan.”

According to Tenet, the Bush administration said they wanted to back-burner the plan.

“And the word back,” claims Tenet, “‘was ‘we’re not quite ready to consider this. We don’t want the clock to start ticking,’” meaning they didn’t want a paper trail.

According to Black, Bush’s national security team was living in the past.

“I think they were mentally stuck back eight years [before]. They were used to terrorists being Euro-lefties—they drink champagne by night, blow things up during the day, how bad can this be? And it was a very difficult sell to communicate the urgency to this,” he explained.

In July, after receiving more confirmations of upcoming attacks, Tenet and Cofer demanded an immediate meeting with Rice.

“Rich [Blee] started by saying, ‘There will be significant terrorist attacks against the United States in the coming weeks or months. The attacks will be spectacular. They may be multiple. Al Qaeda’s intention is the destruction of the United States.’” Tenet remembered.

According to Tenet, “[Condi said:] ‘What do you think we need to do?’ Black responded by slamming his fist on the table, and saying, ‘We need to go on a wartime footing now!’”

When asked “what happened?” after the meeting, Black said nothing much.

“Yeah. What did happen?” Black said. “To me it remains incomprehensible still. I mean, how is it that you could warn senior people so many times and nothing actually happened? It’s kind of like The Twilight Zone.”

In her memoir, Rice mentioned the meeting but found it indistinguishable from other meetings she had with intelligence officials because they were discussing threats “every day.”

According to Tenet, the CIA group met at the end of July and once again discussed the looming threat.

“We were just thinking about all of this and trying to figure out how this attack might occur,” Tenet remembered. “And I’ll never forget this until the day I die. Rich Blee looked at everybody and said, ‘They’re coming here.’ And the silence that followed was deafening. You could feel the oxygen come out of the room. ‘They’re coming here.’”

Asked how he now feels about the timeline leading up to the 9/11 attack that left over 3,000 dead, Tenet told Politico he was resigned.

“Well, look, there … I still look at the ceiling at night about a lot of things. And I’ll keep them to myself forever. But we’re all human beings.”

Alternet (http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/ex-cia-director-white-house-ignored-months-warnings-about-911-avoid-leaving-paper)

[DONNIEP]

Ok, I've read this twice now and I don't see one shred of actionable intel in those posts. There's not one thing that says "Al Qaeder is gonna fly some planes into some shit and blow it up real good on this day". Now, I'm not defending W or his administration. But to say his administration should have done...well, what should they have done?

What's been proposed is that W ignored all the warnings so he could allow the attacks to happen and then all the evidence would point back to him for allowing the attacks to happen. That might make sense on some other planet but I'm not connecting the dots here. Unless you're saying W wanted to allow an attack to take place and the dots are there and he purposefully allowed the dots to connect back to him.

I've read this three times now. I run around every day saying "They're coming here next!". And according to the article or whatever above, that's the "chilling warning"?? Where in this article - and forgive me if I missed it - did it say "We told W's administration that X was gonna happen on this day"?

Now, the whole "go on a wartime footing" quote means exactly what?? Does it mean the US completely shuts down all air and ground travel? Does it mean we turn away every ship inbound to the US, including cargo ships carrying cars and shit like that? Does it mean we completely paralyze the country? Again - where is the actionable intel and where is the proposed course of action?

As much as it pains me to admit it, Ubama gets these same vague and abstract warnings every day. It's kinda like this:

I call you (you being whomever is reading this) tomorrow and say "Man, people are PISSED OFF at you. They're gonna do something so you better lay low." Now, what do you do? Do you alter your route to drop off your kid at school? Do you skip that and keep your kid home? Do you jock up and spend your day looking out the window?

Second scenario:
I call you and say "Man, I heard Joe saying he's gonna burn your damn house down tomorrow, get the fuck out!"

See the difference?

If I missed somewhere in the above posts that there was ANY actionable intel, anything that suggested the US should have shut down air travel, I stand corrected. But I just don't see it.

It's really easy to back track, to walk back the dots after X happens. It's a helluva lot harder to take a few disparate items and line them up before a group of wackos decides to play kamikaze with some fully loaded jets. But then again, I'm a simple man so I may not see the dots until after the fact.

[DONNIEP]

And I missed the most obvious fact: there were no hijacked planes or there were and they hit buildings rigged for controlled demolition. And the handful of companies on this planet that know how to do it have figured out how to do it without gutting buildings. Because they did it for money and yet they toss away all the money they can make off every building they ever demolish in the future, simply because W used his Jedi mind trick.

Jesus Christ - sometimes the goddamn Boogey Man is real.

[DONNIEP]

Forgot to mention that I do like reading all these theories and stuff. Still find it hard to believe those three buildings came down like they did though...

[Seshmeister]

The craziest thing about all of this is that Condoleezza Rice got promoted after 9-11 which is like promoting the captain of the Titanic to admiral.

[DONNIEP]

No doubt the whole thing just doesn't seem right. There were lots of red flags prior to but they didn't point in one direction. Especially the pilot training. It's kinda hard to ground every plane without any specifics. But at the same time we're running an "exercise" on the same day this happens. Which in turn delays responses to what's actually happening. Yeah they were running "exercises" on the same day as the Boston bombing too. No, I'm not suggesting there wasn't a real bombing in Boston - but when I hear "we're running an exercise" it sounds to me like convenient cover for somebody else to do some bad shit.

Then you add in those three buildings suffering complete structural collapse and all indications look like it was initiated by explosives but at the same time you simply can't rig an occupied building for demolition - you just can't.

It's one of those things where no matter which angle you come at it from, you're kinda left saying yeah but...

[FORD]

There is a theory that the towers were wired for implosion during their initial construction in the 1960s. There's a certain logic to this idea..... you're building what was then the two tallest buildings on Earth right in the middle of densely populated lower Manhattan. While the buildings WERE built to withstand an airplane hit (rated for the Boeing 707 at the time) there were other possibilities such as a massive earthquake which could cripple such a building, and cause it to topple over like a giant concrete redwood tree. In the event that such a disaster happened, you would simply flip the switch and implode the buildings neatly, as the least messy alternative.

The only thing that really enters into the "conspiracy" arena about this theory is the part where somebody would have pulled this plug while people were still in the building, which arguably was NOT the intention of those who designed it that way.

[private parts]

So do you throw the switch after the building falls in an earthquake? Is that how it works? lol!
The only conspiracy is that some one would come up with THAT "theory".

[private parts]

As someone with a 5 year degree in Architecture, I find that post beyond laughable!!!!!

[private parts]

AND the explosives were left in place for 40 years?!!!

[DONNIEP]

Yeah that's the second part of that theory that's wrong. You can't wire a building for demo and then let people move in, do renovations, have all sorts of electronics in the building, etc. Plus you can't secretly wire a building for demo while it's being built. Unless you kill off every single person on the construction site including the engineers. Then you gots to kill off everybody they know and on and on so nobody talks. There's never been a building constructed that was pre-wired with live explosives in the history of history, so far as I know.

[cadaverdog]

How many times do some people need to see this to realize the buildings started collapsing from the top down after the floors near the crash site gave out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGAofwkAOlo

[cadaverdog]

If the conspiracy theorists would quit trying to convince everyone the buildings didn't collapse because they were hit by airplanes and concentrated on who was behind this they might sound a lot more reasonable but as long as they keep insisting that's not how it happened they just appear to be a bunch of refugees from the loony bin.

[FORD]

Yeah that's the second part of that theory that's wrong. You can't wire a building for demo and then let people move in, do renovations, have all sorts of electronics in the building, etc. Plus you can't secretly wire a building for demo while it's being built. Unless you kill off every single person on the construction site including the engineers. Then you gots to kill off everybody they know and on and on so nobody talks. There's never been a building constructed that was pre-wired with live explosives in the history of history, so far as I know.

It wouldn't have been a secret to the folks building it. It would have been sold as a "safety" feature. As I said, the idea here would be that in the event of some emergency that crippled the building, you can't bring in a crane and a wrecking ball to demolish a 110 story building, especially in a crowded place like Manhattan. You can't take a chance of those things falling anywhere but into their own footprint. Naturally, you wouldn't take out full page ads in the NY Times, saying "hey, come rent office space in our 110 story time bomb!!!". But those who needed to know would know.

It's nothing evil or conspiratorial in and of itself. Of course the WTC was built by the Rockefellers, and the Rockefellers go back all the way to the 1800s railroad days with the BCE, so...... interpret that however you will. ;)

[private parts]

There's never been a building constructed that was pre-wired with live explosives in the history of history, so far as I know.

That's when the NY smoking ban went into effect.

[private parts]

But those who needed to know would know.

Right.. :doh:

[Seshmeister]

There is a theory that the towers were wired for implosion during their initial construction in the 1960s. There's a certain logic to this idea...

No there really really isn't.

[Seshmeister]

As someone with a 5 year degree in Architecture, I find that post beyond laughable!!!!!

You don't have the soothing female voice that these bozo conspiracy youtube videos use while reading out crazy bullshit from college dropouts...

[Seshmeister]

Also the minor point that if you have wired the buildings for explosives you can kill 4 times as many people without having to start hijacking planes.

It just shows how fucked up a closed information circle can get when you ignore all contrary evidence and try to make things fit a belief.

[private parts]

You don't have the soothing female voice that these bozo conspiracy youtube videos use while reading out crazy bullshit from college dropouts...

I think FORD is just fuckin' with us. He is probably laughing his ass off too!

[Seshmeister]

I just read that in a soothing female voice and feel better.

[DONNIEP]

No, every single person on that site would have known about it if it was prewired for demo. There would be explosives placed all over the support structure. Plus, the support structures have to be weakened in key places. Plus there is no evidence of it in any documents anywhere related to the build.

I'm not shooting the messenger here because I like all these wacky theories. But the people who actually believe the buildings are being constructed with live explosives wired into the buildings are nuts lol. Besides - who gets tapped with the mystery job of maintaining this extremely complex system? You don't think anybody would have mentioned it in all the years since the buildings were constructed?

[cadaverdog]

I think FORD is just fuckin' with us.
He's not fucking with anyone. He actually believes that bullshit.

[FORD]

He's not fucking with anyone. He actually believes that bullshit.

I don't actually "believe" anything about 9/11.

I haven't heard a single account of the event that answers all the questions. But the BCE's "official" story has more holes than most of the "conspiracy" theories do.

The only thing I know for a fact is that Osama Bin Laden and his gang of goat raping assholes were trained to be terrorists by Poppy Bush's CIA, so the ultimate blame falls on the BCE no matter which road you take to get there.

[FORD]

No there really really isn't.

Of course there is. Buildings have an expiration date. Might last decades. If you're lucky they might last a century or two. But eventually it's coming down. In the old days, they would just swing a wrecking ball and bash an old building to shit and then clean up the mess. But you can't do that in downtown Manhattan, especially with a 110 story building. So why not build a means of disposal into the building itself?

If I was one of the Rockefellers, I would have done the same thing. But it goes without saying that I would be very careful about who had knowledge of that building "feature". It certainly wouldn't be anything to be blabbed to the general public, as even in the late 60s when this construction was taking place, a terrorist attack of some sort was certainly within the realm of possibility, and it wouldn't be the type of info you would want falling in the hands of the Patty Hearst types, or the USSR, for that matter.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

geeeez

[vandeleur]

I think there is a scientific theory that goes, shit happens because it does.
Ok not very scientific on reflection but still true :D

[vandeleur]

Oh I lived next to the Roman wall , there still waiting to blow that one up :)

[DONNIEP]

Yes, but buildings aren't built with dynamite strapped to the support structure. Never happened. And in order to drop a building, certain support structures must be weakened and some removed. Nobody builds this into the construction phase. And there's no way on earth you could keep everybody on the construction site from not seeing it and figuring out what it was. Plus you'd have to constantly monitor the explosives and the det cord and everything else. This isn't a set it and forget it proposition.

[Anonymous]

You don't have the soothing female voice that these bozo conspiracy youtube videos use while reading out crazy bullshit from college dropouts...

Soothing female voices can make you do AND believe the craziest things, I agree completely.

This is why I immediately start jacking off as soon as a pretty voice calls me on the phone.

And THAT is why I don't have that many female friends. It's hard to have a meaningful conversation while you're panting. But I think it's the final sigh of relief when I'm done that gives it away.

Yes, I have many, many problems.

[Seshmeister]

Oh I lived next to the Roman wall , there still waiting to blow that one up :)

I thought there was talk of rebuilding it... :)

[vandeleur]

I thought there was talk of rebuilding it... :)

Yes it's part of the new modern northern power house, i am taking George osbournes advice and taking a coracle to work nowadays :)

[DONNIEP]

Yes it's part of the new modern northern power house, i am taking George osbournes advice and taking a coracle to work nowadays :)

Coracle?? Is that like a pointy stick?

[Anonymous]

Coracle?? Is that like a pointy stick?

Nah. It's a very gay boat.

[Anonymous]

Van der Leuer working on his coracle.

http://s9.postimg.org/510cirojj/India_Tamil_Nadu_Hogenakkal_falls_Coracle_Cafeter. jpg

[DONNIEP]

Van der Leuer working on his coracle.

http://s9.postimg.org/510cirojj/India_Tamil_Nadu_Hogenakkal_falls_Coracle_Cafeter. jpg

Is he selling knock off Cheetos?

Wait, is that a gotdamn Mexican?? See - they don't need no welfare! That sumbitch has enough food to feed 37 Mexicans for a month on that boat!

[Nickdfresh]

AND the explosives were left in place for 40 years?!!!

They'd go sour. Much like milk and Shania Twain...

[Nickdfresh]

I don't actually "believe" anything about 9/11.

I haven't heard a single account of the event that answers all the questions. But the BCE's "official" story has more holes than most of the "conspiracy" theories do.

The only thing I know for a fact is that Osama Bin Laden and his gang of goat raping assholes were trained to be terrorists by Poppy Bush's CIA, so the ultimate blame falls on the BCE no matter which road you take to get there.


Ford, have you actually ever read the "9/11 Report?" They actually revealed classified programs like "Rendition". You really think they were smart and competent enough to stage all of this? Really?

[cadaverdog]

The only thing I know for a fact is that Osama Bin Laden and his gang of goat raping assholes were trained to be terrorists by Poppy Bush's CIA, so the ultimate blame falls on the BCE no matter which road you take to get there. The reason the CIA trained those assholes was to do some dirty work for us. It wouldn't be the first time the U S government backed somebody and had it come back and bite them on the ass later.

[DONNIEP]

Ford, have you actually ever read the "9/11 Report?" They actually revealed classified programs like "Rendition". You really think they were smart and competent enough to stage all of this? Really?

Nah, Ford has said more than once that he's undecided.

[DONNIEP]

But then you have something like the Pentagon. Now, I kinda doubt the Pentago had cameras pointed at the sky to look for inbound threats. But...you'd think more than one camera picked up more than a frame or two. I know the plane was coming in full tilt boogie and really would only have showed up in a frame or two. But you'd think at least one other camera had a shot of it.

Then again, if another camera had caught any footage of the jet, the theorists would have 37 different reasons and proof of how it was fake.

Fuck it. I picked up more ammo tonite at The Walmart. 250 more rounds of .223 and another hundred 9mm. I'm preppin! Now I just need me some of them Alex Jones super vitamins/pecker pills!

[twonabomber]

Fuck it. I picked up more ammo tonite at The Walmart. 250 more rounds of .223 and another hundred 9mm. I'm preppin! Now I just need me some of them Alex Jones super vitamins/pecker pills!

Decent ammo boxes for $5 at WM too! The Harbor Freight ones smell funny...

[cadaverdog]

Ford, have you actually ever read the "9/11 Report?" They actually revealed classified programs like "Rendition". You really think they were smart and competent enough to stage all of this? Really?
It's possible someone in the US government funnelled money to Al Qaeda and even helped with the planning but I'm not buying the theory that The BCE or some other super secret group could have planned the whole operation. If they were going to blow up the buildings they could have done that without having the planes crash into them first. I have questioned one thing from day one though. After the first plane hit the building why didn't they fill the sky with military aircraft just in case another plane was headed for another target? When did the FAA figure out several large planes full of fuel had been hijacked from the east coast that morning?

[DONNIEP]

Decent ammo boxes for $5 at WM too! The Harbor Freight ones smell funny...

It's funny you say that. I have several ammo cans, I only use the metal ones. I actually grabbed a couple on Amazon cause I needed two more. And I said what the hell, I'll get two Blackhawk ones. I opened my 9mm can this evening to dump the ammo into it and holy shit did it stink! I think it's the damn rubber seal that smells bad. Whatever it is it stinks like hell.

And for anybody that shoots a lot - Perfecta ammo at Walmart. Buy the shit out of it. It's brass cased, copper jacketed - not copper washed. Made by Fiocchi. And it's cheap as hell. Shoots just fine, no corrosive, clean, and the .223 cases are even brased. 10 bucks for 50 rounds of 9 and 15 for 50 in .223. The only problem is the stores can't place orders to restock it, the rule is left over from the last ammo shortage. So call around and then buy all of it you can.

[DONNIEP]

It's possible someone in the US government funnelled money to Al Qaeda and even helped with the planning but I'm not buying the theory that The BCE or some other super secret group could have planned the whole operation. If they were going to blow up the buildings they could have done that without having the planes crash into them first. I have questioned one thing from day one though. After the first plane hit the building why didn't they fill the sky with military aircraft just in case another plane was headed for another target? When did the FAA figure out several large planes full of fuel had been hijacked from the east coast that morning?

Good point. The truth is that the military response was delayed because an exercise was being run the same day, gaming out the exact same scenario but with different buildings. Add to that the fact that no one knew the first hit wasn't some sort of freak accident. There were people who saw the first plane hit who swore it was a small jet. And they were there. The footage showing it was a huge jet didn't get released until the next day. So you had people saying it was a jetliner and some people who said it was a small jet. In other words it was all confusing, nobody was sure what the hell was happening.

And I was watching tv when the second plane hit and I think we all knew it was a terrorist attack then.

[FORD]

The military jets didn't respond because "coincidentally", the military was doing drills that morning, under the direct supervision of Darth Cheney himself, so when the hijacking reports and the first tower hit happened, there was confusion over whether what they were hearing was "real world" or part of the script for the exercize.

Some kidney patient in a cave on the other side of the planet obviously had no control over that part of the event. And even after the second tower hit, they had another half hour to get some jets in the air, before the Pentagon was hit, and yet there was still no response.

Even those who accept the "19 bozos with razor blades and magic abilities to defy the laws of physics & gravity" story have to admit the lack of air coverage after 9:02 just doesn't make any fucking sense unless somebody deliberately held them back

[Anonymous]

Is he selling knock off Cheetos?

Wait, is that a gotdamn Mexican?? See - they don't need no welfare! That sumbitch has enough food to feed 37 Mexicans for a month on that boat!

That's an Indian person, you racist!

Not one of them First Worlder or whatever the fuck the PC autistics call them nowadays. A proper Indian from India. That weird country where they worship cows & bathe on that brown river due to religious reasons & then everyone breaks out in polio, or some shit. You know, where Freddie Mercury was born!

Really, Donnie. That post of your was one of the most ignorant & insensitive things I ever read. I don't know how you can live with yourself.

[cadaverdog]

Anyone who had the same questions I had about when the FAA figured out 4 planes had been hijacked on 9/11 might want to check this out.
http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jun/18/nation/na-introflight18

[DONNIEP]

That's an Indian person, you racist!

Not one of them First Worlder or whatever the fuck the PC autistics call them nowadays. A proper Indian from India. That weird country where they worship cows & bathe on that brown river due to religious reasons & then everyone breaks out in polio, or some shit. You know, where Freddie Mercury was born!

Really, Donnie. That post of your was one of the most ignorant & insensitive things I ever read. I don't know how you can live with yourself.

Freddie Mercury wasn't from India. He was born in Arababalabbadabbadoo or some place like that.

And I still think that was a Mexican. He probably jumped the border, built that raft, stole a bunch of black market Cheetos and floated it back down the Rio Del Mar or whatever that river is that goes to Dirtville. That sumbitch took our Cheetos! Derrker derrrrrrr!!!!!!

[cadaverdog]

The military jets didn't respond because "coincidentally", the military was doing drills that morning, under the direct supervision of Darth Cheney himself, so when the hijacking reports and the first tower hit happened, there was confusion over whether what they were hearing was "real world" or part of the script for the exercize.

Some kidney patient in a cave on the other side of the planet obviously had no control over that part of the event. And even after the second tower hit, they had another half hour to get some jets in the air, before the Pentagon was hit, and yet there was still no response.


Try reading the article I posted before you make up any more facts. The same air traffic controller that was in control of the first plane that hit the building was also in control of the other. He missed a couple transponder changes on the second plane because he was too busy dealing with the first. Military aircraft were in the air but weren't given enough time to get to the first or second planes before they hit the buildings. A C130 was following the third plane when it struck the pentagon. The last plane went down before the military aircraft could find it. Obviouly the FAA wasn't prepared for an attack like this. Hopefully they are now.

[DONNIEP]

The military jets didn't respond because "coincidentally", the military was doing drills that morning, under the direct supervision of Darth Cheney himself, so when the hijacking reports and the first tower hit happened, there was confusion over whether what they were hearing was "real world" or part of the script for the exercize.

Some kidney patient in a cave on the other side of the planet obviously had no control over that part of the event. And even after the second tower hit, they had another half hour to get some jets in the air, before the Pentagon was hit, and yet there was still no response.

Even those who accept the "19 bozos with razor blades and magic abilities to defy the laws of physics & gravity" story have to admit the lack of air coverage after 9:02 just doesn't make any fucking sense unless somebody deliberately held them back

Ah, I don't have a problem believing a handful of wacked out Moozlimz wielding box cutters would have much trouble subduing the crew of a jet. You slit one throat in front of the passengers - they'll shut up and wait for their turn to ride the blade OR shut up and hope like hell the plan lands. Then you rush the cockpit, start slitting throats and you're in control. Keep in mind, the cock pit is small, the crew is facing forward, it wouldn't be hard to do. The key here is speed and overwhelming violence - people go in shock plus they're conditioned to believe the plane will land, these idiots will get off and I can go home and get good and drunk.

Fast forward to today and Spooky Mahoof or whatever his name is would get beaten half to death and the passengers would probably take that razor knife and cut pieces off the fucker.

And why can't I carry my guns on the damn plane?? Oh, never mind, I can't drink and carry so I guess that rules that out. Ain't no way in hell I'm flying anywhere without being half juiced. Getting on a run down aluminum death tube. You ever look down the side of a jet when you're boarding? The damn things look rougher than a Greyhound bus in Georgia. And to top it all off, Charlotte is notorious for wind shear and you come in rough and the goddamn wings are flapping like a drunk doing the Chicken Dance at Octoberfest.

I hate flying. I love airports - I just hate getting on the damn planes. Crammed in there with all the common people who refuse to put on decent clothes to fly. People being all loud and shit. The last time I flew into Charlotte I was thinking "If one of them terries pops up in here and kills those four loud mouth guys I might just start clapping."

People are meant to fly in planes that have plenty of room, a never ending supply of scotch - none of this stink eye when you ask for another drink - in real bottles, not those little faggity ones, you should be able to smoke too. And I want a bigger bathroom! How the hell am i supposed to join the mile high club when the bathroom ain't even big enough for me to jerk off in??

[Anonymous]

Freddie Mercury wasn't from India. He was born in Arababalabbadabbadoo or some place like that.

And I still think that was a Mexican. He probably jumped the border, built that raft, stole a bunch of black market Cheetos and floated it back down the Rio Del Mar or whatever that river is that goes to Dirtville. That sumbitch took our Cheetos! Derrker derrrrrrr!!!!!!

You are, of course, right about Freddie Mercury & I hang my head in shame. Apparently, he was born in Zanzibar, which up until now I thought was a made up caliphate exclusively for the stories of Sinbad & Popeye the Sailors. You know, where they have them flying carpets & oliphants & people lying down in beds of pointy snakes.

But it turned out to be real. Who would've guessed?

He then MOVED to India, where he caught homosexuality, quite likely by bathing in that filthy brown sludge they call a river.

But that person is an Indian - NOT Injun - and that is a coracle. Not a raft.

And it's Vandy, I tell you. Half of them Brits are Pakis.

[Seshmeister]

Anyone who had the same questions I had about when the FAA figured out 4 planes had been hijacked on 9/11 might want to check this out.
http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jun/18/nation/na-introflight18

When there are two possibilities and one is a massive conspiracy where you need to discount thousands of facts and make more jumps of belief than a 1970s Bond movie and the second possibility is huge government departments being slow and incompetent when dealing with something new it's pretty fucking easy to choose the more likely. Even more easy if you have ever spent any time dealing with any huge government department.

[DONNIEP]

This is what air travel is supposed to be like. See - smoking and drinking and eating. Class. And the stewardesses were hot and actually women, as they are supposed to be!

http://s2.postimg.org/vfuh66qt5/image.jpg

[Anonymous]

When there are two possibilities and one is a massive conspiracy where you need to discount thousands of facts and make more jumps of belief than a 1970s Bond movie and the second possibility is huge government departments being slow and incompetent when dealing with something new it's pretty fucking easy to choose the more likely. Even more easy if you have ever spent any time dealing with any huge government department.

http://s10.postimg.org/ns8sh2rex/ddd7ba5b86b8a210ecc3b3d5cc635fcf.jpg

Of course, Holmes himself never existed.

Which brings up a poignant question - if a fictional character "says" something so logic that it MUST be true, is it a lie because the character never existed in the first place, thus automatically rendering all his speech fiction?

[Seshmeister]

Ah, I don't have a problem believing a handful of wacked out Moozlimz wielding box cutters would have much trouble subduing the crew of a jet. You slit one throat in front of the passengers - they'll shut up and wait for their turn to ride the blade OR shut up and hope like hell the plan lands. Then you rush the cockpit, start slitting throats and you're in control. Keep in mind, the cock pit is small, the crew is facing forward, it wouldn't be hard to do. The key here is speed and overwhelming violence - people go in shock plus they're conditioned to believe the plane will land, these idiots will get off and I can go home and get good and drunk.

Fast forward to today and Spooky Mahoof or whatever his name is would get beaten half to death and the passengers would probably take that razor knife and cut pieces off the fucker.

And why can't I carry my guns on the damn plane?? Oh, never mind, I can't drink and carry so I guess that rules that out. Ain't no way in hell I'm flying anywhere without being half juiced. Getting on a run down aluminum death tube. You ever look down the side of a jet when you're boarding? The damn things look rougher than a Greyhound bus in Georgia. And to top it all off, Charlotte is notorious for wind shear and you come in rough and the goddamn wings are flapping like a drunk doing the Chicken Dance at Octoberfest.

I hate flying. I love airports - I just hate getting on the damn planes. Crammed in there with all the common people who refuse to put on decent clothes to fly. People being all loud and shit. The last time I flew into Charlotte I was thinking "If one of them terries pops up in here and kills those four loud mouth guys I might just start clapping."

People are meant to fly in planes that have plenty of room, a never ending supply of scotch - none of this stink eye when you ask for another drink - in real bottles, not those little faggity ones, you should be able to smoke too. And I want a bigger bathroom! How the hell am i supposed to join the mile high club when the bathroom ain't even big enough for me to jerk off in??

The only answer is to try to be asleep or unconscious at all times. I've had my mouse pointer hover over business class so many times but unless you are a multimillionaire or someone else is paying, $500 an hour extra is hard to justify compared to my new tactic which is to check in, buy half a bottle of vodka and a happy meal. Ditch the fries and nibble on the burger, drink half the coke top it up with the vodka and get that into your system before you get on the plane. I can sleep anywhere but if you aren't so lucky throw in some pills too.

Downside is logistics when you land but fortunately I live $25 taxi ride from the airport.

[DONNIEP]

You are, of course, right about Freddie Mercury & I hang my head in shame. Apparently, he was born in Zanzibar, which up until now I thought was a made up caliphate exclusively for the stories of Sinbad & Popeye the Sailors. You know, where they have them flying carpets & oliphants & people lying down in beds of pointy snakes.

But it turned out to be real. Who would've guessed?

He then MOVED to India, where he caught homosexuality, quite likely by bathing in that filthy brown sludge they call a river.

But that person is an Indian - NOT Injun - and that is a coracle. Not a raft.

And it's Vandy, I tell you. Half of them Brits are Pakis.

Yes, Freddie caught fag in that boy's school they sent him too. But he is quoted as having said he was thinking about dumping the gay stuff and getting married. Now, don't blame me for it - that's what Freddie is reported to have said.

[Seshmeister]

Get a grip, Freddie was not borderline go either way gay.

He was super dooper fabulous flaming gay. :D

[Anonymous]

Yes, Freddie caught fag in that boy's school they sent him too. But he is quoted as having said he was thinking about dumping the gay stuff and getting married. Now, don't blame me for it - that's what Freddie is reported to have said.

Oh, I know that. There's this bird he was really keen on, wrote her lots of songs & even left her his house.

Now, imagine you was a womarn. I'll wait until you finish applying your make up & adjusting your frilly dress. Imagine you was a womarn & you had this faggot who really fancied you. Then you got married & shit, cheated on the guy with a bastard like you lots of time, lived a happy life. But this faggit kept having roses delivered to you & calling you on the phone to tell you how pretty you are, etc.

How creepy is that?

Now, this is my question - in your opinion, do you think she put up with it because Freddie was worth brillions - that's billions of trillions - of dollars, or she also fancied him & was married to the other bloke just because Freddie wouldn't ride her?

[Seshmeister]

Call me old fashioned but I think they were just best friends.

If you are best friends throw in tons of booze, drugs and social convention telling you should and every so often I could see why they would end up in bed together.

This was the 70s and 80s. Elton John is gayer than a basket of tiaras in Richard Simmons sewing room and even he got married in those days... :)

[DONNIEP]

The only answer is to try to be asleep or unconscious at all times. I've had my mouse pointer hover over business class so many times but unless you are a multimillionaire or someone else is paying, $500 an hour extra is hard to justify compared to my new tactic which is to check in, buy half a bottle of vodka and a happy meal. Ditch the fries and nibble on the burger, drink half the coke top it up with the vodka and get that into your system before you get on the plane. I can sleep anywhere but if you aren't so lucky throw in some pills too.

Downside is logistics when you land but fortunately I live $25 taxi ride from the airport.

Actually, what we started doing, when we were able, was fly out on Sunday. We'd reserve seats on a 4 pm flight, get there at noon, start drankin beers on the company dollar at one of the overpriced tiny restaurants at the airport, get on the plane, and then we'd have the two chicks flying with us order beers when we ordered ours so we'd have two beers to last from here to Boston. It sucks having to make two Budweisers last from Charlotte to Boston.

[DONNIEP]

Call me old fashioned but I think they were just best friends.

If you are best friends throw in tons of booze, drugs and social convention telling you should and every so often I could see why they would end up in bed together.

This was the 70s and 80s. Elton John is gayer than a basket of tiaras in Richard Simmons sewing room and even he got married in those days... :)

Freddie was planning on going straight and getting married. He used his Super Manly Powers to overcome his urges for the Forbidden Love.

You know what pisses me off? Freddie caught the hiv and died and we'll be stuck with Charlie Sheen until the end of time. Him and that jackoff Magic Johnson.

[Anonymous]

Freddie was planning on going straight and getting married. He used his Super Manly Powers to overcome his urges for the Forbidden Love.

You know what pisses me off? Freddie caught the hiv and died and we'll be stuck with Charlie Sheen until the end of time. Him and that jackoff Magic Johnson.

I like Charlie Sheen!

[DONNIEP]

I like Charlie Sheen!

I loved the Masheen up until he got halfway cleaned up. He should keep doing drugs and then do his podcast every damn day. No more of this trying to come across as normal. Unleash the Tiger Blood!!!

[Green Manalishi]

Funny ( or should I say NOT funny ) how EVERY administration , regardless of who it was or when they were in charge , has a long laundry list of debacles and failures .
If memory serves , the first and conveniently forgotten attack on the World Trade Center was during the Clinton Administration . And , NO , I wasn't a Bush supporter . They have ALL failed miserably .