Trump Torpedoes North Korea Talks Before They Start

[FORD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqFTYW3K_uY

[FORD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtGH0LL_2ro

[ZahZoo]

I've read several stories on this from multiple media sources... Clearly some games and complex strategy are being played out. I thought this deal was off... then read the that Kim and Moon met face to face at the border again this morning and things sounded encouraging again.

Hard to say where this all lands... it's possible that the Korean war may finally be formally ended and the 2 countries make peace... or this whole thing blows up literally!! It just seems very odd the progression so far...

[Terry]

I've read several stories on this from multiple media sources... Clearly some games and complex strategy are being played out. I thought this deal was off... then read the that Kim and Moon met face to face at the border again this morning and things sounded encouraging again.

Hard to say where this all lands... it's possible that the Korean war may finally be formally ended and the 2 countries make peace... or this whole thing blows up literally!! It just seems very odd the progression so far...

It's a vivid illustration of Trump's manner that either of those polar opposites you mentioned as possible outcomes could literally happen.

Definitely not normal in terms of what we've been used to over the last 60 + years in terms of our relationship with North Korea. However, while I'd prefer that we had a person of a more stable temper in the Oval Office going into this summit, it also occurs to me that had it not been for Trump's saber rattling such a summit might not be happening to begin with: one doesn't easily picture Hillary Clinton threatening 'fire and fury' on North Korea had she been elected. More likely, she would have continued the previous policy of publicly ignoring the country while persisting in cyber disruption and sanctions, neither of which prevented North Korea from developing the weapons they have today.

Bottom line is Trump comes across as unstable enough to actually unleash the fire and fury, and maybe this realization of "hey, THIS American President might not be kidding" struck Kim Jon Un and prompted him to make moves toward some type of reconciliation, because even though Un is also a wack job I have no doubt he realizes that if North Korea launches missiles at the US, North Korea will be wiped off the face of the Earth. Getting Bolton in the Administration also may have sent a signal to Un that not only is Trump nuts, but now he is getting direct advice from a hawk nut who unabashedly advocates military intervention in North Korea, Iran and ANYWHERE ELSE that threatens America and American interests.


There is a mindset among some of the political class which states even sitting down to the table with North Korea is a mistake because even that simple act provides the legitimacy of nationhood that Un craves. Well, that might have made sense prior to the weapons program. Now, unless one is comfortable with the status quo of not talking with the North Koreans while they continue developing a nuclear arsenal, we've either got to hammer out an agreement with Un or be prepared to invade and destroy. I think we're past the stage where the traditional attitude of containment (sanctions, public avoidance of mentioning their name, burying our heads in the sand hoping it'll come out ok) will be a helpful one long term.


However, with Trump and Un as the principals, who the fuck KNOWS how this will turn out?

[FORD]

I've read several stories on this from multiple media sources... Clearly some games and complex strategy are being played out. I thought this deal was off... then read the that Kim and Moon met face to face at the border again this morning and things sounded encouraging again.

Hard to say where this all lands... it's possible that the Korean war may finally be formally ended and the 2 countries make peace... or this whole thing blows up literally!! It just seems very odd the progression so far...

I definitely think that Lil' Kim's mysterious train trip to Beijing last month had a lot to with it. North Korea stirring up shit ain't good for the Chinese either, and especially if a nuclear war ended up as a result, a big chunk of northeast China would end up damaged in the process. So it's likely that Xi Jingping summoned Lil' Kim to the big city and told him to get his shit together.

[Nitro Express]

Not uncommon to have a party threaten to end negotiations. That's pretty normal if you've done any negotiating. If I'm negotiating a new lease with a tenant and the rent is going up it's not uncommon for them to threaten to move out. They are doing that to see if they can make me give them a better deal. It sometimes works and it sometimes doesn't. It's how the game is played.

[Nitro Express]

Of course Cenk has his show to run and his money to make. Of course he's going to have some fun with Trump because that's what his viewers like. Here's a take on things from a different angle from someone who actually knew Donald Trump growing up.


https://youtu.be/7TOthwBtQg0

[Nitro Express]

It's a vivid illustration of Trump's manner that either of those polar opposites you mentioned as possible outcomes could literally happen.

Definitely not normal in terms of what we've been used to over the last 60 + years in terms of our relationship with North Korea. However, while I'd prefer that we had a person of a more stable temper in the Oval Office going into this summit, it also occurs to me that had it not been for Trump's saber rattling such a summit might not be happening to begin with: one doesn't easily picture Hillary Clinton threatening 'fire and fury' on North Korea had she been elected. More likely, she would have continued the previous policy of publicly ignoring the country while persisting in cyber disruption and sanctions, neither of which prevented North Korea from developing the weapons they have today.

Bottom line is Trump comes across as unstable enough to actually unleash the fire and fury, and maybe this realization of "hey, THIS American President might not be kidding" struck Kim Jon Un and prompted him to make moves toward some type of reconciliation, because even though Un is also a wack job I have no doubt he realizes that if North Korea launches missiles at the US, North Korea will be wiped off the face of the Earth. Getting Bolton in the Administration also may have sent a signal to Un that not only is Trump nuts, but now he is getting direct advice from a hawk nut who unabashedly advocates military intervention in North Korea, Iran and ANYWHERE ELSE that threatens America and American interests.


There is a mindset among some of the political class which states even sitting down to the table with North Korea is a mistake because even that simple act provides the legitimacy of nationhood that Un craves. Well, that might have made sense prior to the weapons program. Now, unless one is comfortable with the status quo of not talking with the North Koreans while they continue developing a nuclear arsenal, we've either got to hammer out an agreement with Un or be prepared to invade and destroy. I think we're past the stage where the traditional attitude of containment (sanctions, public avoidance of mentioning their name, burying our heads in the sand hoping it'll come out ok) will be a helpful one long term.


However, with Trump and Un as the principals, who the fuck KNOWS how this will turn out?

Trump consults Henry Kissinger and you can tell. Trump is running right from his own book and the Kissinger playbook. It's the madman strategy where you make your opponent think you are crazy enough to wipe them out. It at least has opened North Korea for discussions. The reality is North Korea's missles aren't very good and they have learned from past presidents all they have to do every now and then is throw a tantrum and they get what they want. Kim started to act up and Trump goes ok Rocket Man fill your hands! It shocked the shit out of Kim. He thought he would get more payoffs but I do think he wants to open his country up to trade but he also fears being taken out. He looks at places like Singapore which is ran by a dictator but it's economy is doing great. Kim probably dreams of North Korea being a Singapore with him running it but he doesn't want to end up like Omar Quadaffi or Saddam Hussain. I wouldn't trust the US either. I can't blame him for wanting a nuke. I would want one as well.

[FORD]

Are the hookers who pee on Trump the same ones who get their toes sucked by Dick Morris?

[Nickdfresh]

https://i0.wp.com/www.breakingburgh.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/NKcoin.jpg

[Terry]

Trump consults Henry Kissinger and you can tell. Trump is running right from his own book and the Kissinger playbook. It's the madman strategy where you make your opponent think you are crazy enough to wipe them out. It at least has opened North Korea for discussions. The reality is North Korea's missles aren't very good and they have learned from past presidents all they have to do every now and then is throw a tantrum and they get what they want. Kim started to act up and Trump goes ok Rocket Man fill your hands! It shocked the shit out of Kim. He thought he would get more payoffs but I do think he wants to open his country up to trade but he also fears being taken out. He looks at places like Singapore which is ran by a dictator but it's economy is doing great. Kim probably dreams of North Korea being a Singapore with him running it but he doesn't want to end up like Omar Quadaffi or Saddam Hussain. I wouldn't trust the US either. I can't blame him for wanting a nuke. I would want one as well.

Yeah, for reasons that escape me, plenty of conservatives who have hawkish military inclinations (I include Hillary Clinton among them) have continued to seek advice from that aged, rumpled raisin of a man that Kissinger represents. Even when one discounts or avoids following into a Kissinger evisceration in the style of the late Christopher Hitchens, it is still fairly easy when removing and studying Kissinger's actual record of deeds from the amount of hyped media kudos surrounding the man to conclude that Kissinger in practice wasn't particularly successful. Far from an Oracle. Yet, Kissinger remains a go-to consultant on foreign affairs to this day.

I also thought at one point that Trump might be affecting a Madman Theory stance for the Supreme Leader of North Korea. Unlike Nixon, though, Trump is more of an impulsive or instinctual person. Whatever one may say about Nixon, he certainly had done his homework in terms of being somewhat informed. I tend to doubt that Trump even knows much about North Korea even in limited terms of the history of the country, the ruling family and the like. Nor does Trump strike me as the type of person who would rethink his emotional responses to dealing with North Korea - or any other problem, for that matter - in the face of learning information that ran counter to what his uninformed gut instincts told him the solution was.

Thus, with Trump, it isn't so much the Madman Bomber Theory as it is the Willfully Ignorant Man Who Thinks He Knows It All Anyway Theory.


The fact of the matter is while North Korea's missiles might not be very effective at the moment, they have nowhere to go but up as long as they keep developing their program. As long as they keep developing their program, American options for dealing with that will possibly whittle down to a sharp, binary set of choices:


1. We're going to accept that North Korea has a nuclear capability and recognize that we can't control that, because North Korea has been ostracized for decades thus the conditions that led to the Iranian Nuclear deal simply aren't there.


2. We're going to have to go in and use military force to either neuter or totally destroy the weapons program, along with possibly North Korea in the process.


And even if we accept the first option, we're still going to have to simultaneously be prepared to enact the second option if events unravel.


And, I must add, I agree with you that were I in Kim's shoes, I wouldn't trust the United States, either. I wouldn't disarm my nuclear capability strictly based on the promise from the US not to invade or attempt regime change.

[Nitro Express]

Hillary Clinton wasn't a true liberal. She is basically a power and money addict. I think she actually loathed her voting base and her not being able to hide that fact is why she alienated the working class voters.

[Nitro Express]

If a deal is made this will be the reality of it. Kim will stay in as a dictator but more like a dictator of a place like Singapore. He's not going to give his lifestyle up but he seems to want to do capitalistic styled business. He wants western things. He knows his country is backwards and he wants to modernize it. North Korea will still be highly regulated but if you are a go getter with the right contacts you can make a nice nest egg for yourself but the reality is many in the country will remain poor. Much like Putin's Russia.

[Terry]

Hillary Clinton wasn't a true liberal. She is basically a power and money addict. I think she actually loathed her voting base and her not being able to hide that fact is why she alienated the working class voters.

True, but working class voters have been feeling more and more alienated from the Democratic Party for decades, particularly white working class voters who resent identity politics being assigned a higher priority within the party than their own concerns (plenty of white working class voters - and not just a few who had previously voted democratic - voted for Reagan...twice). The Democratic Party has basically thrown their hands up in the face of technology and globalization, and had little to offer the white working class other than in essence saying to them as a demographic they are fucked.


And, it may well be true that as a demographic going forward the American white working class aren't going to have it as good as their parents did. The problem is, the Democratic Party is offering little other than to show the American white working class how to kneel. Trump (as opposed to the Establishment Republicans) offered a chance to stand tall and give a middle finger while doing so. In the end, Trump won't cure the conditions that will undermine the influence the shite working class in this country had. However, if death is inevitable, given the choice would you rather go out on your feet fighting, or on your knees crying? Not everyone asked that question would pick the same option. Trump gave the whites he was appealing to a valve to release the frustrations that had been building for decades. Before people had even heard of Trump OR the Clintons.


When Sanders spoke of HIS ambitions for the working class, working class people knew he was sincere. When Hillary did, working class people knew she was full of shit: you can't take $400k from Goldman for a speech you gave to them - and afterward fail to release the content of that speech - and be forced to consider a minimum wage higher than $11 only because your primary opponent was advocating for $15 and have any credibility with people making less than $100k a year. Particularly when you stack that on top of her husbands support of NAFTA, rescinding welfare benefits, and all the rest. The Democratic Party under the Clintons by and large sold out the working class years ago. Long before she ran for President the first time around in 2008.

[Nitro Express]

What probably hurt the Democratic Party more than anything was using superdelegates to throw Bernie under the bus and give the nomination to Hillary. Notice Hillary won't go away either. It just proved the Democratic Party isn't so Democratic. The Republican Party doesn't have superdelegates and if they did they would have thrown Donald Trump under the bus and gave us their stuffed suit. As far as Trump being involved with the Russians the Mueller investigation hasn't proved anything nor will it ever prove anything. It's laughable. Trump like Bernie was an independent candidate who rode on a major party to win the presidency. Bernie could have beat Trump. It would have been close but the Democrat Party self-destructed pulling the Hillary trick. The Republican establishment sure as hell didn't want Trump or any non-establishment candidate to win. Why? All the corruption they all are involved in. As long as you get someone like Hillary or George W Bush in nobody goes to jail. This is the real issue. Let's say Bernie was a true outsider. He would be putting up with the same shit. Especially if he was about cleaning up the Department of Justice and the FBI. Oh man they would be pointing to his honeymoon in the Soviet Union and calling him a Russian double agent and all that shit. It's not who's president as much as who the president works for. If he works for the American people the establishment in Washington are really going to hate them. Lefty or Righty.

[FORD]

The Republican Party primary system is actually as rigged as the corporate "Democrats", they just use a different method. In several of the "red" states, the Republican party has a "winner takes all the delegates" policy, regardless of how many of the votes the candidate actually got. In the 2016 primary, the Republicans started out with a fully loaded clown car with 18 or so candidates in it. Cheeto actually didn't win a true majority (50% or better) in any primary until New York, which was about halfway through the cycle. Most of his early wins averaged 30% of the vote, sometimes even less. But he took all the delegates in those states.

Now if I were a Republican voter in a state where Cheeto had 32% of the votes and the guy I voted for had 31.5% (say, Kasich or Cruz, for example, since they were the guys who usually took 2nd or 3rd), I would be pissed off at Cheeto getting 100% of the delegates, despite getting less than 1/3 of the vote.

So a different system than the stupidelegates, but just as artificial, as far as reflecting the will of the actual primary voters.

[Nitro Express]

The Republican Party primary system is actually as rigged as the corporate "Democrats", they just use a different method. In several of the "red" states, the Republican party has a "winner takes all the delegates" policy, regardless of how many of the votes the candidate actually got. In the 2016 primary, the Republicans started out with a fully loaded clown car with 18 or so candidates in it. Cheeto actually didn't win a true majority (50% or better) in any primary until New York, which was about halfway through the cycle. Most of his early wins averaged 30% of the vote, sometimes even less. But he took all the delegates in those states.

Now if I were a Republican voter in a state where Cheeto had 32% of the votes and the guy I voted for had 31.5% (say, Kasich or Cruz, for example, since they were the guys who usually took 2nd or 3rd), I would be pissed off at Cheeto getting 100% of the delegates, despite getting less than 1/3 of the vote.

So a different system than the stupidelegates, but just as artificial, as far as reflecting the will of the actual primary voters.

I really hate party politics. I would rather just see individuals run. Political parties make voting like sports. People tend to vote for the team rather than who is actually best suited for the job. It's the way the game has been played though. I guess it's human nature to do it this way.

[Terry]

What probably hurt the Democratic Party more than anything was using superdelegates to throw Bernie under the bus and give the nomination to Hillary. Notice Hillary won't go away either. It just proved the Democratic Party isn't so Democratic. The Republican Party doesn't have superdelegates and if they did they would have thrown Donald Trump under the bus and gave us their stuffed suit. As far as Trump being involved with the Russians the Mueller investigation hasn't proved anything nor will it ever prove anything. It's laughable. Trump like Bernie was an independent candidate who rode on a major party to win the presidency. Bernie could have beat Trump. It would have been close but the Democrat Party self-destructed pulling the Hillary trick. The Republican establishment sure as hell didn't want Trump or any non-establishment candidate to win. Why? All the corruption they all are involved in. As long as you get someone like Hillary or George W Bush in nobody goes to jail. This is the real issue. Let's say Bernie was a true outsider. He would be putting up with the same shit. Especially if he was about cleaning up the Department of Justice and the FBI. Oh man they would be pointing to his honeymoon in the Soviet Union and calling him a Russian double agent and all that shit. It's not who's president as much as who the president works for. If he works for the American people the establishment in Washington are really going to hate them. Lefty or Righty.

I think if Bernie had declared a few months sooner than he had, which would have given him a bit more time to catch fire in terms of his rallies and the amount of people he was reaching (considering mainstream tv news outlets were giving him a minimal amount of coverage - and the coverage he did get was mostly dismissive in terms of him being a pie in the sky candidate - and his campaign had to rely much more on grass roots outreach - word of mouth via rallies and internet - than Clinton's did by virtue of her being the preferred candidate of the media and the Democratic Party), he could have possibly overtaken Hillary in the primaries.

As it played out, even if there hadn't been clear bias on behalf of the DNC, I tend to think Hillary still probably would have edged him out in the primaries even if she hadn't benefitted from the media bias and the DNC rigging. Also, to be clear, there was no way in practical terms that the DNC wasn't going to do everything it could to make sure Hillary was the candidate. There was no way the DNC was going to surrender to Sanders without resistance and allow Sanders to take control of the party: he would have been beholden to virtually none of the professional demo players in the party had he won, and these same players were convinced (despite polling taken during the primaries to the contrary) that Bernie would be a sure loser in the fall.


Mind you, none of that means I don't agree that the theoretical purpose of the DNC re: primaries is to ensure all the candidates on the ballot have equal access to the machinery of the party during the primaries, and that the DNC members/superdelegates have a responsibility to determine which candidate is the strongest for the general election (as opposed to which one they would LIKE to run in the general). However, we all know the world doesn't work that way. Hillary, above all else, thought her candidacy and the Presidency (much like her Senate seat and her Cabinet position) were owed to her because:

a) She stood by her husband during his sex scandal

b) She felt she should be the first woman president

c) She didn't try to divide the convention in 2008 via her endorsement of Obama

And the majority of the DNC agreed with all of that.


The majority of the Republican Party establishment were shitting their pants as 2015 rolled into 2016 and none of the boilerplate hack candidates could put Trump away. Doubtless shitting their pants because much like Trump himself they thought he would never win, and even if Trump DID win he wasn't beholden to the GOP Establishment. Same deal as Sanders and the Dems.

And I'd have to imagine now that the centrist, middle of the road operatives of both parties are feeling like they have a very feeble grip on their parties going forward, considering how close Sanders came running far to the left of Hillary and Trump going out and whipping up massive crowds just flat-out SAYING the things he did that other GOP candidates would only dog-whistle in code.

In the end, though, these same middle of the road operatives don't really give a shit if their candidates win or lose, because these operatives for the most part only pay lip service to the ideals of conservatism and liberalism: it's the campaign cash, pork barrel dough and consulting fees that motivate them. While doubtless it would be preferred if the candidates they work for win their elections, there are plenty of ways for operatives to make money even when their party loses.

As to Mueller, while the optics, facts and text of what we know regarding Trump's various campaign operatives and their meetings/connections with various Russian actors have been established - and there's just too much of it for a reasonable person to think it was all coincidental - actually PROVING the Russian operatives were taking direct orders from Putin or the Kremlin to specifically collude with Trump campaign staff in order to deny Clinton victory...I tend to doubt there's going to be smoking gun-type memo spelling out "The Plan"...and short of several of Trump's campaign advisors going on the record and saying "yes, it did in fact happen and it happened as the result of intentional planning, and Trump in fact knew about it beforehand" all you will have is circumstantial evidence. That type of evidence regularly convicts lesser citizens of crimes, but the standard (one would hope) for removing a President from office is a bit higher than that.

The best shot Mueller has is to get Trump under oath. Trump lies with the same ease in which he breathes, so Trump's only chance of not opening himself up to perjury charges is to plead the 5th or refuse the subpoena: while doubtless Trump believes he can obfuscate a Mueller line of inquiry in the same manner as his testimonies in the many civil suits against him attempted to, were I one of Trump's legal team now I'd just tell him to take the 5th. Much easier to take the 5th/refuse to testify and then go on to tweet that he did so because it was all a "witch hunt" than to lie. And we ALL know Trump lies. And lies. And, even when the truth would suffice, Trump STILL lies. The Mueller inquiry isn't some civil suit like the Trump University sham where Donald can throw $25 million at it and ultimately make it go away after the con was exposed.


Having said all that, I'll be surprised if the Mueller investigation ultimately results in Trump being impeached, let alone removed from office.

[Nitro Express]

A large amount of the Republicans would have been fine with Hillary as president. Look. It's not about politics. It's about staying out of jail. There are so many crooks in the government on both sides of the isle nothing scares the shit out of them more than an outsider winning the presidency. That can be a liberal like Bernie or more of a conservative like Trump. Doesn't matter who it is but if they think there is a chance they might go to jail the establishment will do anything to remove that president. Mueller is a crook. End of story. He has nothing to lose so he's pulled out all the stops. Him and Comey are worth millions of dollars and they didn't make that by obeying the law. The investigation is going to fizzle and who knows we might see Mueller running off to a non-extradition country. Maybe the drug lords he turned a blind eye towards will do him a favor. They fight and then they run.

[Nitro Express]

https://youtu.be/QGQRePsSDz8

Haha! Even Louis Farrakhan knows The Department of Justice is the Department of Just Us. The politicians and bureaucrats can rob and steal with impunity but a citizen can go to jail in a heartbeat. I wasn't expecting Trump to fix much if anything but I knew he would stir the pot and the pot needs stirring. Bring all the swamp muck up for everyone to smell and see.

[FORD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUta8WVxUBY

[Seshmeister]

I really hate party politics. I would rather just see individuals run. Political parties make voting like sports. People tend to vote for the team rather than who is actually best suited for the job. It's the way the game has been played though. I guess it's human nature to do it this way.

As I understand it the US system was meant to not have party politics when it was being designed.

The problem now is that like the UK system there is no way in a million years anyone would choose to copy either if you were starting with a clean slate. It's completely ridiculous to try and reflect the wishes of 300 million people in the 21st century using a 2 party system.

[Seshmeister]

Mueller is a crook. End of story. He has nothing to lose so he's pulled out all the stops. Him and Comey are worth millions of dollars and they didn't make that by obeying the law. The investigation is going to fizzle and who knows we might see Mueller running off to a non-extradition country. Maybe the drug lords he turned a blind eye towards will do him a favor. They fight and then they run.

What?

How is Mueller a crook?

I know American State TV (Fox) is running a propaganda campaign against him now but please explain the evidence for that I had only heard that from the crazees in the past?

[ZahZoo]

I'm not seeing the Mueller crook angle either...

[FORD]

https://preview.ibb.co/jVsQ9d/teams.jpg

[FORD]

https://i.imgur.com/93ffDSU.png

[Nitro Express]

I'm not seeing the Mueller crook angle either...

Let's say he was a bit blind towards drug dealing and money laundering.

[Nitro Express]

As I understand it the US system was meant to not have party politics when it was being designed.

The problem now is that like the UK system there is no way in a million years anyone would choose to copy either if you were starting with a clean slate. It's completely ridiculous to try and reflect the wishes of 300 million people in the 21st century using a 2 party system.

Do we even need a congress anymore? They really just do nothing and cost us a lot of money. We could do electronic voting from the state level. The states were supposed to have most the power. All the federal government was supposed to do was represent the states internationally. Protect the states. Provide a supreme court to go to if something was deemed unconstitutional. The problem is states don't mint their own money and since the federal government has a non-ending line of credit in the world's reserve currency, it can own the states since most of them depend on federal funding and have nothing to really fight back with. It wasn't an accident that someone made the capitol dome in Washington look like a big nipple. The whole country sucks off of it.

[Nickdfresh]

http://ksassets.timeincuk.net/wp/uploads/sites/55/2017/04/alec-baldwin-snl-donald-trump-920x585.jpg
"Oh, you don't like the wargames? Oh, okay we'll just cut those out as long as you pinky swear to get rid of your nukes! Anything else you'd like my good friend Kim?"

[FORD]

https://i.imgur.com/yhUuS3m.png

[Nitro Express]

Oh but if a Democrat met with Kim and everything stayed the same it would be great. You guys are sounding like warmongering Republicans. :bigwink::bigwink:

[FORD]

Published on
Tuesday, June 12, 2018
by Informed Comment (https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/06/12/if-obama-had-met-kim-jong-un-republican-party-would-have-had-cow)

If Obama Had Met with Kim Jong Un, the Republican Party Would Have Had a Cow

by Juan Cole



The depths of hypocrisy of the Republican Party in supporting Trump’s meeting with the North Korean dictator in Singapore are hard to plumb. This is a party whose leading members adopted the Ostrich Foreign Policy Principle for decades. If you don’t like a country’s government or political and economic system, pretend it does not exist.

One of the concerning developments on the internet is that hypocrisy, which was probably the ultimate Cool Meme in the zeroes of this century, no longer rules. Maybe it is just scandal fatigue from the combination of profound corruption and attention deficit disorder characterizing Washington under Trump. But, well, we have to keep on slogging.

There was that time when Sen. Ted Cruz and other Republicans lambasted Obama for visiting Cuba while there were still political prisoners in that country. So the principle is, no talks with leaders who have prisoners of conscience in their jails? Trump has broken that principle every which way from Sunday. Sen. John McCain even compared Obama’s handshake with Castro to the Hitler-Chamberlain meeting. Seriously. That’s what he said.

Then there was that time when prominent Republicans slammed Barack Obama’s Secretary of State John Kerry for his direct talks with Iran’s foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif. Sen. John Barrasso, R-WY and a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, said, “I have a lot of concerns about Secretary John Kerry and his buddy-buddy relationship with Zarif and other people around the world.”

In 2008 when Obama was still running for president, one of his foreign policy advisers, Daniel Kurtzer, went to Damascus and met with Bashar al-Assad’s foreign minister. Sen. John McCain slammed Obama for the overture to the al-Assad regime: “If one of Senator Obama’s advisers has been to Damascus, we just wonder how many have been to Tehran.”

And, of course, when Barack Obama was running for president in 2008 and pledged unconditional talks with North Korea among other countries, he was pilloried by conservatives – the same ones who now demand a Nobel Peace Prize for Trump for meeting with the North Korean president without preconditions.

[FORD]

https://s33.postimg.cc/himsxx6lr/IMG_0716.jpg

[twonabomber]

They really talked about Trump taking over management of the empty hotel in Pyongyang

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/12/22/09/an9574830in-this-sept.-23-2.jpg

[Nitro Express]

https://s33.postimg.cc/himsxx6lr/IMG_0716.jpg

"I know them both and Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un are basically the same." --Dennis Rodman--

[Nitro Express]

They really talked about Trump taking over management of the empty hotel in Pyongyang

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/12/22/09/an9574830in-this-sept.-23-2.jpg

Perfect. The place looks like a hotel/casino. If Trump manages it like the Taj Mahal in Atlantic City we really are screwing North Korea.

[Nitro Express]

Published on
Tuesday, June 12, 2018
by Informed Comment (https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/06/12/if-obama-had-met-kim-jong-un-republican-party-would-have-had-cow)

If Obama Had Met with Kim Jong Un, the Republican Party Would Have Had a Cow

by Juan Cole



The depths of hypocrisy of the Republican Party in supporting Trump’s meeting with the North Korean dictator in Singapore are hard to plumb. This is a party whose leading members adopted the Ostrich Foreign Policy Principle for decades. If you don’t like a country’s government or political and economic system, pretend it does not exist.

One of the concerning developments on the internet is that hypocrisy, which was probably the ultimate Cool Meme in the zeroes of this century, no longer rules. Maybe it is just scandal fatigue from the combination of profound corruption and attention deficit disorder characterizing Washington under Trump. But, well, we have to keep on slogging.

There was that time when Sen. Ted Cruz and other Republicans lambasted Obama for visiting Cuba while there were still political prisoners in that country. So the principle is, no talks with leaders who have prisoners of conscience in their jails? Trump has broken that principle every which way from Sunday. Sen. John McCain even compared Obama’s handshake with Castro to the Hitler-Chamberlain meeting. Seriously. That’s what he said.

Then there was that time when prominent Republicans slammed Barack Obama’s Secretary of State John Kerry for his direct talks with Iran’s foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif. Sen. John Barrasso, R-WY and a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, said, “I have a lot of concerns about Secretary John Kerry and his buddy-buddy relationship with Zarif and other people around the world.”

In 2008 when Obama was still running for president, one of his foreign policy advisers, Daniel Kurtzer, went to Damascus and met with Bashar al-Assad’s foreign minister. Sen. John McCain slammed Obama for the overture to the al-Assad regime: “If one of Senator Obama’s advisers has been to Damascus, we just wonder how many have been to Tehran.”

And, of course, when Barack Obama was running for president in 2008 and pledged unconditional talks with North Korea among other countries, he was pilloried by conservatives – the same ones who now demand a Nobel Peace Prize for Trump for meeting with the North Korean president without preconditions.

It's partisan politics. Yup. Many Republicans would be saying Obama is hanging with his communist comrades plotting on how to screw America and make it communist like North Korea. The problem is Obama might have carpetbagged out of Chicago but he didn't play for the Bulls. Kim only wants to talk to NBA superstars if you are black and Obama was no Dennis Rodman.

[FORD]

by Tamar Auber | 7:41 pm, June 13th, 2018 (https://www.mediaite.com/tv/watch-trump-insists-parents-of-fallen-korean-war-soldiers-begged-him-to-bring-sons-home/)

President Donald Trump made the rather ridiculous claim that parents of fallen Korean War soldiers came up to him on the campaign trail and begged for their sons’ remains to be brought home.

Yet, here is the thing. The math is not exactly in his favor.

The Korean War ended in 1953. While they technically could still be alive, it is unlikely that they are attending a campaign event calling for the return of their sons’ bodies.

There is also the problem that according to Trump’s account, it is not just one very elderly parent of a Korean war veteran, but more than one, as evidenced by use of the word “we.”

“When you can, president, we’d love our son to be brought back home — you know, the remains,” he recalled them saying, despite the fact he just said he was on the campaign trail and not POTUS yet.

The comment did not go unnoticed by media Twitter who noted Trump’s claims simply did not add up.

Yet, perhaps not surprisingly, Fox News found a way to try to make Trump right, bringing on family members — not parents — of Korean War vets who were, indeed, happy at the idea of seeing their loved ones remains back home.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fapPwXfDpms

[FORD]

https://youtu.be/wzSqq8iOlFU

[private parts]

Oh but if a Democrat met with Kim and everything stayed the same it would be great. You guys are sounding like warmongering Republicans. :bigwink::bigwink:

Yeah and I thought they were all about diplomacy. Apparently Trump was supposed to call Kim a lunatic scumbag murderous dictator, have a lunch meeting, and hope he didn't kill any peace deal. Which, btw, the libs
kept saying all last month that Trump was going to kill any hopes of peace deal. Sounds psychotic to me.

[FORD]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfrNw95WAAApX6S.jpg

[Seshmeister]

Trump gave Korea what it wanted, legitimacy in front of the world, Trump said the people of North Korea loved Kim. I assume he isn't including the 100 000 political opponents he has locked up in concentration camps or shot.

The other thing they wanted was for the US to stop doing military exercises with South Korea which he gave them.

In return Trump got exactly zero for America. They said the same thing about a non nuclear Korean peninsula that they said to Obama and Bush. If Trump had done any homework he would have known this and that the Koreans are including the US in that - they will get rid of all of their missiles if the US gets rid of all of hers.

The art of the deal in action...

[Terry]

Yeah and I thought they were all about diplomacy. Apparently Trump was supposed to call Kim a lunatic scumbag murderous dictator, have a lunch meeting, and hope he didn't kill any peace deal. Which, btw, the libs
kept saying all last month that Trump was going to kill any hopes of peace deal. Sounds psychotic to me.


Which was disconcerting to me, the chatter of democrats in the runup to the meeting between Trump and Un about why it shouldn't even take place, things along the lines of:


"Un just wants the meeting to have a legitimate place in the world community, and the very act of Trump meeting with him legitimizes him."

"Trump is a terrible deal maker, and this meeting is nothing but a long-range ploy by Un, and Un will trick the United States: this deal won't result in Un behaving the way America wants him to in the end."

Look, I didn't vote for Trump.

I don't like Trump.

However, quite frankly, I'd much have Trump and Un speaking directly face to face with one another and trying to find some common ground. That is infinitely preferable to where we were a year ago, with Un publicly via the press threatening a nuke launch against America and Trump responding via the press with threatening a nuke launch against North Korea. And also infinitely preferable to invading or striking North Korea even strictly using non-nuclear means.

The one thing precious few of these various democratic figures spoke about in the run up to the Trump/Un meeting was how decades of isolation, sanctions and essentially a non-communicative stance spearheaded by America (including at least 2 democratic presidents) directly contributed to the siege mentality of the Kim dynasty, which in no small part led to where North Korea is with its weapons program today. So, what was the alternative to a US President meeting with Un? More of the same as before? Only this time we know the North Koreans are driving hard at making their nuclear weapons operational.

We diddled around with North Korea forever. We could have went in there decades ago if we were THAT concerned with the way the Kim's treated their subjects. We didn't.

You know what? If this first summit eventually results in North Korea denuclearizing/dismantling their weapons program, that will in no small part be because of what Trump did. And even if it turned out Trump was winging it by instinct the whole time with North Korea, he'll deserve the appropriate amount of credit for it should North Korea disarm. And if all that happens, and someone actually gives Trump the Nobel Peace Prize, I'll be fine with that, too. Fuck it. Who cares? Better Trump got the Nobel than we had to bomb North Korea back into the Stone Age (triggering God knows what response from China or Russia).

[twonabomber]

However, quite frankly, I'd much have Trump and Un speaking directly face to face with one another and trying to find some common ground.

Gotta lay the foundation before building the skyscraper.

[twonabomber]

https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35159263_649280035448482_6867528809382412288_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=fb1fa07823f5cf86f6948e7988691624&oe=5BB21844

[ZahZoo]

Trump gave Korea what it wanted, legitimacy in front of the world, Trump said the people of North Korea loved Kim. I assume he isn't including the 100 000 political opponents he has locked up in concentration camps or shot.

The other thing they wanted was for the US to stop doing military exercises with South Korea which he gave them.

In return Trump got exactly zero for America. They said the same thing about a non nuclear Korean peninsula that they said to Obama and Bush. If Trump had done any homework he would have known this and that the Koreans are including the US in that - they will get rid of all of their missiles if the US gets rid of all of hers.

The art of the deal in action...

Have you considered the alternate perception that Kim and North Korea achieved this so called "legitimacy in front of the world" on their own by detonating nuclear/hydrogen bombs powerful enough to destroy a mountain, plus firing intercontinental missiles over Japan/Guam with potential capability to strike the US mainland...

Those elements on their own dictated a situation where playing some silly game of "we don't want to talk to you" because your not big enough wasn't going to change a damn thing nor alter the progression of threat!

I don't get the significance people are placing on pausing the joint military exercises with South Korea either. The US did not commit to any draw-down or change what so ever in the massive strike capability positioned on and just off the Korean Peninsula. All we agreed to was to suspend practice exercises for the time being. Don't think for a minute that all that hell and fury isn't locked, loaded and just parked in NOKO's backyard waiting to be unleashed if needed...

What has been accomplished so far isn't really much from a tangible perspective... but it holds considerably much more potential of achieving something in the direction of a peaceful solution than existed just a few months ago. I don't think anyone is naive enough to think this deal will quickly result in demilitarization of the peninsula nor that Kim and his goons will just give it all up without some major issues... None of the past attempts/methods succeeded. But there's no reason not to give this a reasonable try...

[Terry]

Have you considered the alternate perception that Kim and North Korea achieved this so called "legitimacy in front of the world" on their own by detonating nuclear/hydrogen bombs powerful enough to destroy a mountain, plus firing intercontinental missiles over Japan/Guam with potential capability to strike the US mainland...

Those elements on their own dictated a situation where playing some silly game of "we don't want to talk to you" because your not big enough wasn't going to change a damn thing nor alter the progression of threat!

I don't get the significance people are placing on pausing the joint military exercises with South Korea either. The US did not commit to any draw-down or change what so ever in the massive strike capability positioned on and just off the Korean Peninsula. All we agreed to was to suspend practice exercises for the time being. Don't think for a minute that all that hell and fury isn't locked, loaded and just parked in NOKO's backyard waiting to be unleashed if needed...

What has been accomplished so far isn't really much from a tangible perspective... but it holds considerably much more potential of achieving something in the direction of a peaceful solution than existed just a few months ago. I don't think anyone is naive enough to think this deal will quickly result in demilitarization of the peninsula nor that Kim and his goons will just give it all up without some major issues... None of the past attempts/methods succeeded. But there's no reason not to give this a reasonable try...

In retrospect/looking backward over the last 70 years, it'd be hard to imagine a single, rational person who wouldn't have wished atomic/nuclear weapons hadn't been invented. Just from a basic survival aspect in terms of our species. We had plenty of conventional weapons prior to the advent of atomic/nuclear ones that were more than able to kill one another off without any "efficiency of destructive scale" or other such insanity. If armies want to go to war, let them do it on a battlefield with guns, tanks and rockets and keep civilian populations out of it as much as possible: full out nuclear war (or even a single weapon being detonated) doesn't distinguish between military personnel and civilians.

To be sure, the Trump/Un summit may end up being no more than a mere pause, stalling the inevitable. Perhaps all the Russian/USA nuclear agreements in the end may have turned out to be nothing more than stalling measures if a nuclear exchange ends up taking place.

You know what? I'll take those stalling measures over a nuclear detonation anytime. Even just in terms of North Korea: to be sure, Un treats his people terribly. However, I have no desire to see the peoples of North Korea wiped off the face of the planet, EVEN IF SUCH AN OBJECTIVE CAN BE ACHIEVED WITHOUT ANY REPERCUSSIONS TO THE US. I wouldn't mind seeing Un go and see the North Korean peoples be able to participate in a less restrictive society.

I just don't want to see the detonation of nuclear weapons ever become thought of as normalized or acceptable. I care about general humanity far, far above nationalism, religion or ethnic dominance.

As you say, there is no reason not to give a deal between Trump and Un a reasonable try, even if all it provides in the end is a pause: every day I'm living in a world where nuclear weapons aren't detonated is, far as I'm concerned, a good one.

[FORD]

https://youtu.be/0iw-KbI1m3o

[FORD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewYFqFpRDmM

[ZahZoo]

Ford... did you notice those illegal immigrants are not North Koreans..?

[Nickdfresh]

Ford... did you notice those illegal immigrants are not North Koreans..?

They are if you're Chinese...

[FORD]

Ford... did you notice those illegal immigrants are not North Koreans..?

Oops...

This is what happens when FORD posts on no sleep, too little caffeine and sunburn.... videos go into the wrong thread.

[Nitro Express]

Have you considered the alternate perception that Kim and North Korea achieved this so called "legitimacy in front of the world" on their own by detonating nuclear/hydrogen bombs powerful enough to destroy a mountain, plus firing intercontinental missiles over Japan/Guam with potential capability to strike the US mainland...

Those elements on their own dictated a situation where playing some silly game of "we don't want to talk to you" because your not big enough wasn't going to change a damn thing nor alter the progression of threat!

I don't get the significance people are placing on pausing the joint military exercises with South Korea either. The US did not commit to any draw-down or change what so ever in the massive strike capability positioned on and just off the Korean Peninsula. All we agreed to was to suspend practice exercises for the time being. Don't think for a minute that all that hell and fury isn't locked, loaded and just parked in NOKO's backyard waiting to be unleashed if needed...

What has been accomplished so far isn't really much from a tangible perspective... but it holds considerably much more potential of achieving something in the direction of a peaceful solution than existed just a few months ago. I don't think anyone is naive enough to think this deal will quickly result in demilitarization of the peninsula nor that Kim and his goons will just give it all up without some major issues... None of the past attempts/methods succeeded. But there's no reason not to give this a reasonable try...

I'm amazed at how much people are inferring out of nothing. Past presidents just bought North Korea off when they threw a tantrum. Nobody bothered to talk to them in the past either. Let's be real here. The Korean tension has been a cash cow for the military industrial complex for a half century. Canceling a military exercise is no big deal and best of all, it saves money. If Kim wants to try and turn North Korea into Singapore fine. Singapore is still a dictatorship but since the dictator understands capitalism it's thrived. Also this is all partisan talk. If a Democrat did the exact same thing they would be a brilliant negotiator and worthy of the Nobel Prize. Since it's a Republican it's all a disaster. The issues don't matter as much as what team you play on. Politics is right there with sports. Everyone has their team they cheer for. Simple as that. Both Democrats and Republicans bitch about the other team and sometimes even throw shit from the stands.

[Nitro Express]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfrNw95WAAApX6S.jpg

Trump should be a Democrat.

[Nickdfresh]

I'm amazed at how much people are inferring out of nothing. Past presidents just bought North Korea off when they threw a tantrum. Nobody bothered to talk to them in the past either. Let's be real here. The Korean tension has been a cash cow for the military industrial complex for a half century. Canceling a military exercise is no big deal and best of all, it saves money. If Kim wants to try and turn North Korea into Singapore fine. Singapore is still a dictatorship but since the dictator understands capitalism it's thrived. Also this is all partisan talk. If a Democrat did the exact same thing they would be a brilliant negotiator and worthy of the Nobel Prize. Since it's a Republican it's all a disaster. The issues don't matter as much as what team you play on. Politics is right there with sports. Everyone has their team they cheer for. Simple as that. Both Democrats and Republicans bitch about the other team and sometimes even throw shit from the stands.

Yeah, they didn't know how to "talk" to them and get absolutely nothing tangible in return...

[Nickdfresh]

Trump should be a Democrat.

But he's not. Choke on that one you mindless sycophant!

BTW, Democrats largely initiated our involvement in, and ran, the Korean War. So that's sort of a bullshit comment...

[ZahZoo]

They are if you're Chinese...

I'm a recovering Californian... not Chinese!

[Terry]

I'm a recovering Californian... not Chinese!

You're not?

Funny, as I've always thought your avatar looked...Asian...

[Nickdfresh]

I'm a recovering Californian... not Chinese!

Yes, the land of Mezro....

[Nitro Express]

Yeah, they didn't know how to "talk" to them and get absolutely nothing tangible in return...

Remains of US servicemen isn't tangible?

[ZahZoo]

You're not?

Funny, as I've always thought your avatar looked...Asian...

That's character (Festis) from Gunsmoke not Hop Sing from Bonanza!! LOL

[Nitro Express]

That's character (Festis) from Gunsmoke not Hop Sing from Bonanza!! LOL

Haha! I actually met Festis at the state Fair when I was a kid. He was dressed just like he is in your Avatar. Met Festis and my mom bought me an indian headdress and a fake tomahawk. What a day!

[Seshmeister]

Remains of US servicemen isn't tangible?

How much is a 60 year old human collarbone worth at this point?

"We think we have the foot of someone from your grandfathers unit that our government stupidly sent to get pointlessly killed in some shithole in the 1950s."

That's like trading buffalo for shiny beads...

[Nickdfresh]

And remains they should have handed over anyways. Really, we needed Drumpf to go over there and legitimize a despotic autocracy he wants to recreate here? Is that what some poor sap who joined up in '48 died for?

[Terry]

That's character (Festis) from Gunsmoke not Hop Sing from Bonanza!! LOL

I always thought it was John Carradine!

[ZahZoo]

I always thought it was John Carradine!

That's Ken Curtis who played Festus Haggen on Gunsmoke... He was also a singer and an early influence of David Lee Roth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWR6FLnPack

[Nitro Express]

And remains they should have handed over anyways. Really, we needed Drumpf to go over there and legitimize a despotic autocracy he wants to recreate here? Is that what some poor sap who joined up in '48 died for?

I think the despotic autocracy already exists. It's called career politicians, rogue intelligence officers, and corrupt bureaucrats. The type of people who collude with each other to keep the insider's club going. Notice none of them ever go to jail even when there is plenty of evidence to indite them. Notice how they do everything to keep people not in their little club from wining elections. Trump is very far from being a dictator. If he was a lot of people would be hanging and the border would be mined and people trying to get across would be shot. His political opposition would be bullied or killed. I've been to countries ran by real dictators. Believe me. It's far worse than what you pansy asses whine about. As far as the North Korean negotiations go. It's just getting started. You people talk like it's a done deal. Go ahead and whine and bitch. It ain't going to accomplish a damn thing. As far as Russian collusion goes it's getting to be an old fable. Nobody has come up with any evidence of anything. Sounds like a bunch of losers cooking up a reason they lost an election and the way it's going, they are going to lose another one. If Trump was a dictator he would use his executive authority to take care of all that bullshit in the Justice Department and FBI. Many people wonder why he hasn't.

[Nitro Express]

How much is a 60 year old human collarbone worth at this point?

"We think we have the foot of someone from your grandfathers unit that our government stupidly sent to get pointlessly killed in some shithole in the 1950s."

That's like trading buffalo for shiny beads...

Yeah but if a Democrat did the same thing it would be a great move. Haha! That's the reality of it. This is all partisan bullshit. Political whining and complaining. It's too early in the game to tell where this is all going. The bottom line is none of the political babble in this forum is going to change a damn thing on how the world really runs. So I'm going to do something important. I'm going to see if the garbage cans have been pushed out.

[Nitro Express]

That's Ken Curtis who played Festus Haggen on Gunsmoke... He was also a singer and an early influence of David Lee Roth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWR6FLnPack

It was a long time ago but he was one of the acts at the fair. I remember him doing some singing and bullshitting between songs. Cracks me up Roth was inspired by him and Jim Dandy. Shit. Roth even dressed up as a faggy cowboy sometimes wearing cowboy boots and a gun belt and holster. Dave was a weird mix of shit.

[private parts]

Remains of US servicemen isn't tangible?

Not if you hate the military. Maybe they can send us their refugees and make Ford orgasm.

[FORD]

Not if you hate the military. Maybe they can send us their refugees and make Ford orgasm.

If Lil' Kim wants to send me some female refugees of legal age, I have no objections.....

[Nitro Express]

If Lil' Kim wants to send me some female refugees of legal age, I have no objections.....

You are on the wrong border. Putin will get the North Korean meat.

[Nitro Express]

Not if you hate the military. Maybe they can send us their refugees and make Ford orgasm.

Ford will have to take a number. Trump will have them all pissing on the bed in the Lincoln bedroom first. As soon as they start stinking up the White House with kim chee Ford will get them.

[FORD]

Well, if Justin Trudeau wants to send me some hot Canadian chicks who hate his goddamned pipelines, I wouldn't object to that either.

[ZahZoo]

Haha! I actually met Festis at the state Fair when I was a kid. He was dressed just like he is in your Avatar. Met Festis and my mom bought me an indian headdress and a fake tomahawk. What a day!

I met Amanda Blake (Miss Kitty) at the California Rodeo in Salinas, Ca back in the 60's! Rode along side a stage coach she was riding on in the horse parade...

[Nitro Express]

https://youtu.be/1DFlZcH99Co

Haha! First Laura and now JEB! jump out of the weeds and attack Trump on immigration. This is a no brainer. A secure border cuts into the Bush Dynasty drug profits amongst other things. When was the last time a Bush ever cared about children?

[Nitro Express]

I met Amanda Blake (Miss Kitty) at the California Rodeo in Salinas, Ca back in the 60's! Rode along side a stage coach she was riding on in the horse parade...

I rode in a stage coach being pulled by a six horse team in Virginia City, Montana. It was being pulled at full gallop. Talk about a dusty, scary, bumpy ride! The coach actually is suspended on big leather straps so it floats around. In theory it's supposed to smooth the ride out.

[jacksmar]

Not if you hate the military. Maybe they can send us their refugees and make Ford orgasm.

There are many pathetic socialists at this site that do. Their lives are filled with fear of guns, pro abortion parades, fear of melting icebergs and weather patters beyond their reach of the courts, fear of free speech, fear of legal immigrants, fear of the police, fear of voter registration, fear of Chik-A-Fil, fear of talk radio, fear of commerce, fear of pharmacies, fear of the sun, fear of oil, fear of water, fear of electricity produced by nuke and coal, fear of beauty pageants, fear of good health, fear of the USSR, fear of NoKo, fear of nuns, fear of bakers, fear of photography, fear of money they don't control, fear of the Dow Jones and NASDAQ, fear of the KKK, fear of nazis, fear of the Tea Party, fear of Sarah Palin, fear of Christians, fear of native Americans, fear of bathrooms, fear of traditional marriage, fear of the Winestine and MadeOff, fear of Haliburton, fear of Koch, fear of flags and statues, fear of Israel, fear of a 40hr work week, fear of insurance, and fear of true crime stats.

And that's just a short list.
They're the wrist chomping, hair-on-fire, chicken littles that writhe with worry about illegal alien children and have no problem killing a child before its born.
They have no problem with muslims but fear Mormons and Catholics.
They want diversity that requires everyone has brown skin, brown eyes, and black hair.
They protest the National Anthem but have no problem spending the same nations welfare check and sleeping in the same governments provided housing.

And they absolutely fear the military. Here's why:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz1hhx8yxyU


(Jacksmar provided video in compilation at 1:08 mark: Madeira Beach.)

Additionally, this is why NoKo fears the USA and Trump/Pence. According to the leftists: These SOB's are just crazy enough to do it. Thanks for helping Trump/Pence get the message out...

[Nickdfresh]

I think the despotic autocracy already exists. It's called career politicians, rogue intelligence officers, and corrupt bureaucrats. The type of people who collude with each other to keep the insider's club going. Notice none of them ever go to jail even when there is plenty of evidence to indite them. Notice how they do everything to keep people not in their little club from wining elections. Trump is very far from being a dictator. If he was a lot of people would be hanging and the border would be mined and people trying to get across would be shot. His political opposition would be bullied or killed. I've been to countries ran by real dictators. Believe me. It's far worse than what you pansy asses whine about. As far as the North Korean negotiations go. It's just getting started. You people talk like it's a done deal. Go ahead and whine and bitch. It ain't going to accomplish a damn thing. As far as Russian collusion goes it's getting to be an old fable. Nobody has come up with any evidence of anything. Sounds like a bunch of losers cooking up a reason they lost an election and the way it's going, they are going to lose another one. If Trump was a dictator he would use his executive authority to take care of all that bullshit in the Justice Department and FBI. Many people wonder why he hasn't.

Oh fuck you with the fake 'deep state' 'is just like North Korea' allegory. I'm guessing it's like going into a murder shower at a concentration camp when you pay your taxes to the IR-SS! It's offensive to the several hundred thousand that have been murdered since fatboy came to power. Or the millions since the founding of The "Democratic" Republic of Korea...

[Nickdfresh]

There are many pathetic socialists at this site that do. Their lives are filled with fear of guns, pro abortion parades, fear of melting icebergs and weather patters beyond their reach of the courts, fear of free speech, fear of legal immigrants, fear of the police, fear of voter registration, fear of Chik-A-Fil, fear of talk radio, fear of commerce, fear of pharmacies, fear of the sun, fear of oil, fear of water, fear of electricity produced by nuke and coal, fear of beauty pageants, fear of good health, fear of the USSR, fear of NoKo, fear of nuns, fear of bakers, fear of photography, fear of money they don't control, fear of the Dow Jones and NASDAQ, fear of the KKK, fear of nazis, fear of the Tea Party, fear of Sarah Palin, fear of Christians, fear of native Americans, fear of bathrooms, fear of traditional marriage, fear of the Winestine and MadeOff, fear of Haliburton, fear of Koch, fear of flags and statues, fear of Israel, fear of a 40hr work week, fear of insurance, and fear of true crime stats.

And that's just a short list.
They're the wrist chomping, hair-on-fire, chicken littles that writhe with worry about illegal alien children and have no problem killing a child before its born.
They have no problem with muslims but fear Mormons and Catholics.
They want diversity that requires everyone has brown skin, brown eyes, and black hair.
They protest the National Anthem but have no problem spending the same nations welfare check and sleeping in the same governments provided housing.

And they absolutely fear the military. Here's why:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz1hhx8yxyU


(Jacksmar provided video in compilation at 1:08 mark: Madeira Beach.)

Additionally, this is why NoKo fears the USA and Trump/Pence. According to the leftists: These SOB's are just crazy enough to do it. Thanks for helping Trump/Pence get the message out...

Well in all fairness, who doesn't love a great abortion parade?!

And captain "fear the military", didn't you "fear" having to go back in? I know, you're right behind them! You'll never leave your buddies' behind!...

[jacksmar]

And remains they should have handed over anyways. Really, we needed Drumpf to go over there and legitimize a despotic autocracy he wants to recreate here? Is that what some poor sap who joined up in '48 died for?

Apparently, you are still uniformed but it's OK to stay that way. Blissful...


Setting the record straight: 'Round about early January


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPD1poWBr-E

[jacksmar]

Well in all fairness, who doesn't love a great abortion parade?!

And captain "fear the military", didn't you "fear" having to go back in? I know, you're right behind them! You'll never leave your buddies' behind!...

Sure did fear it!!! Absolutely!!! The last forward position I was in was dangerous enough with the civilian populace. Let alone a bunch of brown camel fuckers bent over praying 9 times a day to do a service to their cult.

But, as insane as it was, I volunteered to go back and help. They said I was too old and probably crazy. And they said the defense contractor I was working for was serving the USA just fine. So I guess my sharing with you was an internet mistake I'll never make again. You pulled the same shit a coward does and you still accuse me of being a coward. Playing the old Fab Shadow game. So the fuck you sits in your affluent Buffalo suburb driveway, asshole.

And I never was a captain, professor. Just a serviceman in the USAF.

There's an old saying: A lying queer will eventually end up eating shit. Enjoy it...:finger33:

[Nickdfresh]

Apparently, you are still uniformed but it's OK to stay that way. Blissful...


Setting the record straight: 'Round about early January


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPD1poWBr-E

OFFS, if there is one thing you don't get to say, it's anyone is "uniformed" you neanderthal bitch!

[Nickdfresh]

Sure did fear it!!! Absolutely!!! The last forward position I was in was dangerous enough with the civilian populace. Let alone a bunch of brown camel fuckers bent over praying 9 times a day to do a service to their cult.

But, as insane as it was, I volunteered to go back and help. They said I was too old and probably crazy. And they said the defense contractor I was working for was serving the USA just fine. So I guess my sharing with you was an internet mistake I'll never make again. You pulled the same shit a coward does and you still accuse me of being a coward. Playing the old Fab Shadow game. So the fuck you sits in your affluent Buffalo suburb driveway, asshole.

And I never was a captain, professor. Just a serviceman in the USAF.

There's an old saying: A lying queer will eventually end up eating shit. Enjoy it...:finger33:

Oh fuck you never "volunteered to go back" you fucking shit-talker...

[jacksmar]

OFFS, if there is one thing you don't get to say, it's anyone is "uniformed" you neanderthal bitch!

Neanderthal? Weren't Neanderthals wiped out by hominoids? Isn't that like Indians? White folks wiped out the Indians and hominoids wiped out the Neanderthals. So you're one of them Wipe Outers?

Listen prof, I'll take the barbaric insults and the effete references to my manhood. But I won't sit here and listen to you bad mouth the United States of America. Gentlemen...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PYb_anBMus

[Nickdfresh]

Neanderthal? Weren't Neanderthals wiped out by hominoids? Isn't that like Indians? White folks wiped out the Indians and hominoids wiped out the Neanderthals. So you're one of them Wipe Outers?

Nobody knows. That's one of several theories, the other that the Neanderthals could simply not think fast enough nor work in communities...


Listen prof, I'll take the barbaric insults and the effete references to my manhood. But I won't sit here and listen to you bad mouth the United States of America. Gentlemen...

Give me a specific example, you pussy!

[jacksmar]

Oh fuck you never "volunteered to go back" you fucking shit-talker...

Wrong again. Twice in the same thread. Apparently I owned too many "firearms" and such. Oddly enough, that's the same reason the defense contractor gave when they told me to take a severance package.

Something about "walking time bomb"? I don't see that as a negative. And my cardiologist says it part of my chemical makeup. Blood pressure is too high. Drink too much and something about loud music. I couldn't really understand what he was saying.

There's only one queer with shit eating grin in this thread, prof. Remember, I'm the xenophobic homophobic that has two women as roomies ( one Italian, one Latino) that lives on the inter-coastal with a hot tub on the deck. A real swinging, aging wanna be rocker with a set of Paul Stanley boots hanging on the wall.

Keep trying, darling nikki... sincerely OFFS!!!

[private parts]

And don't forget "FEAR THE REAPER":drum:

[FORD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il-22Q8mECc