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Lou
01-16-2004, 03:41 PM
OK I'm gonna enumerate everything that I and most of US sports fans think is stupid about hockey, why most of this country couldn't give two shits about it, and why it won't be around in 2004-2005.

1. Constant ties and a stupid scoring system. In my opinion there is no point to even playing if it'll end in a tie. I generally fall asleep to the local sports radio station, and they were doing a Flyers game and it ended 0-0. And the announcers were like, "Wow this game had everything." Yeah well how about a goal. Didn't have that. Isn't that the point, the team with the most goals wins. They just don't get it, do they? The very very small hard-core hockey fanbase will say, "Yeah but there was great checking, great fights, great defense, great goaltending, a lot of thrilling chances." Well no one who's not an absolute die hard could give two shits about that. The hockey fanatics are just totally missing the boat. Fans want to see scoring and a winner and loser. BTW don't even make an argument "well there's ties in the NFL" as that happens maybe once every 5 years.

Now I know they tried to fix the tie situation, so in true NHL fashion they made it worse with end of the season records like 35-24-15-8. And that's 93 points which should make you good for the playoffs, never mind you couldn't even win half your games. In fact you can theoretically lose EVERY game and have the equivalent of a .500 record because of the stupid points system. An overtime loss is now a "good loss." How dumb is that. And why points? They don't have calculators to figure out winning percentages and go by that? This brings me to my next point.

2.Cartoonish elements. Well the whole overtime system is so doctored and contrived it's laughable. Let's give each team a point so they'll be inspired to win. And let's have 4 on 4 so they'll have better scoring chances. It's just that bad they have to reinvent the wheel I guess. And then the fights are so fucking stupid. They're so gratuitous and they look like a WWF fight. And then they fucking STOP THE GAME to make way for a fight. Unlike the other sports, the refs stand and watch it too. Now why the hell would they let it go on? Because the sport SUCKS and is so damn BORING they have to have cartoonish crap to keep people from falling asleep. Now the fact they happen every game, doesn't that kind of lessen the impact of the fights? In football they'll punch each other but they don't fucking stop the game and form a circle around the players. And in the NBA there's so rarely a big time fight that when it does happen, you know it's real and not just going through the motions like some of these "enforcers" do. Then the penalties are rich. Like if you draw blood, it's a double minor, but if you don't draw blood, it's only a minor. So knocking a guy unconscious won't cost you too much if you don't draw blood, but a little cut to the forehead or cheek will cost you!

3.If you're from the US, you probably can't identify with the game or its players. It's not part of US life. You don't grow up with exceedingly long winters and ponds, you grow up with baseball fields and basketball courts. Your friends aren't all doing it. It's more than just a sport in Canada, it's a mentality and a way of life. Well that just isn't happening here unless you live really close to the Canadian border.

As far as the players, it's really tough to get into it when they're mostly Canadian, Eastern European, and Russian. Again I can't identify with that. I'm not really connecting with Simon Gagne and life in Quebec. Or Michal Handzus and life in the Czech Republic.

4.There is no one player right now you really want to see. Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux were assets to the sport. Well Gretzky is retired and Lemieux ought to be. What draw is there? Who the hell comes in town where you're like, "Yeah I gotta see that guy." Hockey draws in no casual fans like the other three sports can. I was discussing this with an avid hockey fan and I said, "Who on the Flyers for example is a draw?" and he replied "Simon Gagne." So I said, "You honestly think people in other cities are saying, 'Oh man Simon Gagne's coming into down, boy he's exciting, I want to see that.'" Yeah, right. I don't know who the best player in hockey is right now. I think if there really were someone unbelieveable, dominating the sport out there I'd have bumped into it by now.

5.Tickets are inaccessible to people who don't make 6 figures. And it's profoundly unwatchable on TV too. At least in Philadelphia you're really not welcomed to a Flyers game unless you're rich or "important." Prices I think are more out of control with hockey than any other sport. Now they are expensive with the Phillies, Sixers, and Eagles, but when I go to those games there's a more down-to-earth feeling there. The atmosphere and attitude is just different. There's a place for people who just want to watch a game. Not hockey, where virtually everyone in the building is a businessman, looking to entertain clients. That's what they advertise on TV here--luxury boxes and the Lexus Club. The Flyers NEVER target the normal guy who might want to check out the game. Football isn't a good comparison because it's 8 games and all season-ticket holders for years and years. But the Phillies and Sixers target the average guy and just make you feel good about coming down to a game.

So my alternative is TV where you really can't see a lot of stuff relevant to the plays. The other three sports you can feel the excitement through the TV, but not this one because you just can't see it all. Unwatchable.

Conclusion

So that's why very few people in the US care about the NHL. In fact I have one last theory here. I think most of that US minority that watches it doesn't even really like the sport. I think they just kind of tell themselves they like it. Because I think the main draw for most of that small group is that all the players are white. Yes, admit it, you like a little refuge where everyone's still white. I think it goes hand in hand with the high prices and the whole businessman atmosphere. The whiteness is what prevents people from admitting that they just don't really like the sport. The NHL better pray that black people remain uninterested in the sport because the whiteness of the sport is their bread and butter in the US. And that's just sad.

Sarge
01-16-2004, 03:52 PM
Wen I think of hockey... I think of Canada!!!
:)

Lou
01-16-2004, 04:04 PM
Hey what was "Sarge's Little Helper" all about?

Full Bug
01-16-2004, 04:08 PM
The work stoppage thats gonna happen next season sure isnt going to help matters either.....
You made some good points Lou....

SensibleShoes
01-16-2004, 07:31 PM
Lou is my new hero. :)

Va Beach VH Fan
01-16-2004, 07:31 PM
Yeah, good points indeed....

Those points don't turn me off, but good points anyway.... ;)

I'll be honest, and if you knew me growing up in PA, you'd never believe it, but hockey is THIS close to passing baseball in my list of favorite sports (football is still king)....

I've really gotten into it in the last 7 or 8 years or so, when I stopped going overseas....

And having the chance to see Lemieux in person with my two boys will always be special....

Gmoney
01-17-2004, 11:11 AM
Hockey players are extremely talented, but.... it's still Soccer's red head step child....very boring to watch. Better live than on the tube!!

There are good brawls....I'll give them that much!!

Full Bug
01-17-2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Gmoney
Hockey players are extremely talented, but.... it's still Soccer's red head step child....very boring to watch.

You comparing hockey to soccer in the boring department? C'mon.......:rolleyes:

DarwinUnchained
01-17-2004, 12:12 PM
if you want to bitch against hockey bitch against the NHL, Hockey is one of the very few sports you can call a man's sport...professionnel basketball or even worse baseball are even worse than professional Hockey....why the fuck would someone who plays baseball be paid 15 million a year...now thats fucking stupid...

Also your argument concerning the fact that people watch it only because there is white players is retarded...

Think before posting...

Bob_R
01-17-2004, 12:34 PM
THIS THREAD SUCKS!!!!

THIS THREAD SUCKS!!!!

Lou
01-17-2004, 12:50 PM
First off I said nothing about salaries, so that wasn't even part of my argument. I think ALL sports salaries are out of control BTW. Although MLB is receding a little bit. Greg Maddux and Pudge Rodriguez still aren't signed, and Vlad Guerrero took forever to get signed. 3 years ago he'd have been making close to $20M a year. Not that what he's making still isn't insane though.

Yeah I thought before I wrote, and I firmly believe that in the United States, hockey's being an all-white sport is a big part why it even has the small fanbase it does. It's become a businessman's sport more than any other sport here. It's not overt but it's definitely on the rich businessman's mind, and most of those people are white. And look at all those fans in the stands, are ANY of them black? Do any black people watch it on TV? Nope. Do you ever see black guys wearing NHL jerseys? Hell no. How about the commercials during the games, do they cater to non-white people? Ever hear rap music at a hockey game? No you hear classic rock because it's rich middle-aged white guys. Don't think Gary Bettman doesn't know this and isn't trying to play up to the "strength" of it being an all-white sport

I'll give you one more example to prove that race absolutely can come into it like this. Look at the Utah Jazz. Ever notice they consistently have an abundance of white players every year, more than any other NBA team? Well why do you think that is? Because they're all Mormons out there, they're all white, and they want to see white guys on the court. They'll lose interest if the whole team's black. The Boston Celtics used to do that too because Bostonians wanted to see white guys on the court--that's why they wanted Larry Bird more than Magic Johnson in 1979.

Having an all-white team to cater to fans is not unheard of. Now hockey doesn't do this intentionally, it just happens that the people who play and watch it are all white. And those white fans, most of whom probably don't like the actual game that much, want it to stay that way. And I guarantee that if the sport gets an influx of non-white minorities it'll go more downhill than it is now. Yeah other sports used to be all white but they're not, but still have maintained popularity because they're inherently good sports. Hockey can't survive that because most people here, for my reasons in the original post, don't care for the game itself.

Lou
04-20-2004, 03:23 PM
Bumping this up.

HOCKEY SUCKS!!! Can't wait until there's no season next year so I don't have to hear about it!

My hope is that it's a Calgary-Ottawa finals so that NOBODY in the US is watching.

Bob_R
04-20-2004, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Lou
Bumping this up.

HOCKEY SUCKS!!! Can't wait until there's no season next year so I don't have to hear about it!

My hope is that it's a Calgary-Ottawa finals so that NOBODY in the US is watching.

You have to relax bro or you're going to have a heart attack. You hate hearing about hockey, you hate hearing about Van Halen with Sammy. Don't pay so much attention to the things that bother you.

Just a friendly piece of advice. :)

Lou
04-20-2004, 04:27 PM
Wait, I don't think anyone over here enjoys hearing Van Hagar except the morons trolling over from the Links.

ALinChainz
04-20-2004, 04:56 PM
Too each his own, but to me, Hockey is a combination of all the other sports and the last thing it is ... is boring.

mightyjar
04-20-2004, 05:41 PM
You made some valid points but you are way off base with the racial card. If you want to point to a sport all-white try Nascar. One of the most highly watched sports and all drivers are white. I don't think they cater to the businessman.
Hockey has become an elitist sport becuase it is so expensive to play.
In the inner city you can grab a basketball and play on any court.
The same with football and baseball. The same cannot be said about hockey. You can play road hockey but this does not really develop any skills for real hockey.
Also I hope you don't become too bored with the NBA with the invasion of the white Europeans coming into the league.
I personally love hockey. I think it is the greatest sport there is. The reason they have made so many changes was to try and appease the American majority who do not and will not ever like the sport. The sport will never be big in warm weather climate states. This is a fact. They should quit trying to change it for risk of losing the real fans they have.

Sammy Who??
04-22-2004, 10:42 AM
Lou allow us the freedom to chose!

Golden AWe
04-22-2004, 10:56 AM
Like somebody said before, don't judge hockey because NHL isn't what it used to be...

Besides, my home team just won the Finnish championship for the first time since '81!!!

It happened 1,5 weeks ago but I'm still cheering...

Full Bug
04-22-2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Golden AWe
Like somebody said before, don't judge hockey because NHL isn't what it used to be...

Besides, my home team just won the Finnish championship for the first time since '81!!!

It happened 1,5 weeks ago but I'm still cheering...
A shame they dont show that stuff on the tube, wouldnt mind watching stuff like that...

Golden AWe
04-22-2004, 01:02 PM
I'll check out if I can find some links for the video higlights...just for fun :)

rustoffa
04-22-2004, 08:47 PM
The Flames were here a long time ago. Now we got the Thrashers and they lose alot. Plus Danny Heatley got away with something none of us ever could 'cause he's "franchise".
:elvis:

Alex Mogilny
04-24-2004, 10:06 AM
I like hockey; I like it quite a bit. I grew up playing it. I don't agree with it being an elitest sport though. I played with used/borrowed equipment until I could buy my own with my paper route money when I was 13.

The sport has declined alot since the mid 90s. Gary Bettman has to be the worst commissioner in sports. The scoring needs to return to make it exciting again.

Some of the things that could be done to improve the game.

1. eliminate the red line/two line passing.
2. increase the size of the goal.
3. decrease the size of goalie padding.
4. full two minute power plays
5. make the trap or left wing lock an illegal defense.

Hockey is a great game. Continious action of hitting at 20-25 mph.
The game needs to improve or it will continue to lose popularity. Another thing needs to be done as well......get rid of the ESPN announcers....holy shit....these guys are so goddamned PC it's incredible.

Gary Thorne: confuses players names, sounds drunk mid-way through the second period. doesn't understand the game.

Bill Clement: every play and situation is armegeddon. Very biased towards the Flyers.

Darren Pang: PC Moron, kisses everybody's ass. He is a so called goalie expert and has to be one of the worst goalies to ever put on pads.

Steve Levy: Another PC moron. Very biased towards certain players. Struggles with certain aspects of play calling.

Bob_R
04-24-2004, 12:11 PM
Mike (Doc) Emrick who does the play by play for the Devils is the best in the business.

John Davidson (Rangers) is the best color man.

Lou
04-24-2004, 12:57 PM
Actually I thought I heard Bill Clement hates the Flyers anymore. But as a whole ESPN is biased towards the Flyers and I have no idea why.

Here's another thing I hate about hockey, and I don't remember if I wrote this or not...when a team is up 2 goals, that's pretty much the end. Not like the other sports where teams come back. It's so difficult to come back from 2 goals down in hockey. That sucks.

They need a friggin' STAR, like Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux. What hockey player do you see on TV promoting the sport? Whose face is out there? There's just no draw, and the sport isn't good enough to overcome that. For the hard-core hockey fans here, yeah Jarome Iginla might be a star to you. Ilya Kovalchuk might be a draw to you. But think about casual fans, those two names don't do anything for them. No casual fan is gonna want to go down to the arena because the Flames or Thrashers are in town and say, "Ooh I gotta see Jarome Iginla tonight" like they would in other sports with teams like the Yankees and Lakers, and individuals like Barry Bonds and LeBron James.

Alex Mogilny
04-24-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by EVH FANATIC
Mike (Doc) Emrick who does the play by play for the Devils is the best in the business.

John Davidson (Rangers) is the best color man.

Emrick is the best...IMO as well. However, you have to listen to fucking Chico Resch, who may be the worst, to listen to Doc.

Davidson is ok. He screws up alot though....count how many times during a game that he says "my apologies", it's at least 10x per game.

Sam Rosen is a tool of the first order. I'm so glad Leetch got traded. He swung from Leetch's nuts like no one has ever swung before.

Don't get me started on the Fish Sticks announcers.....

Alex Mogilny
04-24-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Lou
Actually I thought I heard Bill Clement hates the Flyers anymore. But as a whole ESPN is biased towards the Flyers and I have no idea why.

Here's another thing I hate about hockey, and I don't remember if I wrote this or not...when a team is up 2 goals, that's pretty much the end. Not like the other sports where teams come back. It's so difficult to come back from 2 goals down in hockey. That sucks.

They need a friggin' STAR, like Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux. What hockey player do you see on TV promoting the sport? Whose face is out there? There's just no draw, and the sport isn't good enough to overcome that. For the hard-core hockey fans here, yeah Jarome Iginla might be a star to you. Ilya Kovalchuk might be a draw to you. But think about casual fans, those two names don't do anything for them. No casual fan is gonna want to go down to the arena because the Flames or Thrashers are in town and say, "Ooh I gotta see Jarome Iginla tonight" like they would in other sports with teams like the Yankees and Lakers, and individuals like Barry Bonds and LeBron James.


I disagree about the two goal lead. A two goal lead is the hardest to keep. I don't know why but it is....just ask the Rangers.

I do agree that the league needs some marquee players. The way that the game is played now it is very hard for one to develop. The systems or rules need to change for the skilled players to flourish.
If Kovalchuk played in the 80s-90s high octane era, I bet he would have scored 100 goals a season a couple of times. The way that the game is played now as soon as a guy like him gets the puck he either has 2-3 guys collapsing in front of him or 2 guys practicly tackling him.

DLRismydad
04-24-2004, 01:44 PM
I agree with all the points you made. I find myself to be just a casual hockey fan. I just find it funny how growing up in canada hockey is a matter of life and death to everyone but it means nothing in the U.S market

Lou
04-24-2004, 02:29 PM
Yeah, you know I think there were seats still available for every Flyers playoff game. Considering Philly is one of hockey's bread and butter markets in the U.S., that's should tell you something.

PHOENIX
04-25-2004, 10:21 AM
Black people cant fucking skate!

Thats why they dont play hockey!:D

BTW HOCKEY RULES!

BASEBALL AND FOOTBALL ARE AMERICAN SPORTS.

HOCKEY AND SOCCER ARE SPORTS THE REST OF THE WORLD CAN RELATE TO.

JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD IS INTO GRAND PRIX RACING AND AMERICANS ONLY LIKE NASCAR!

Lou
04-25-2004, 11:22 AM
I hate NASCAR, it's not even a sport. And it's only Southern Americans who like that crap.

Hecubus
04-27-2004, 12:48 AM
Don't be a playa hata, Lou...

Those guys are tougher than football players....

A typical football play is about 5-7 seconds, a hockey shift lasts 45 secs to a minute.

Football Season is 16 games, Hockey is 82.

Football players play once a week. Hockey players 2-3 times a week.

Football hitting is fierce, but so is hockey and they're skating 25 mph when they collide, plus they have a small piece of frozen hard rubber shot at their bodies at 80-100+ miles per hour. That leaves a mark.

Generally, football players are all about chest thumping & 'me', hockey players are always about the team.

Don't get me wrong, I love football. Grew up watching it & playing it in high school & college, and the pro team I root for has 5 Lombardi's in the trophy case (even tho 2004-05 is a rebuilding year), but it's become pretty classless with all of the showboating & trash talking.

Lou
04-27-2004, 02:16 AM
See that's the thing.

I am in no way doubting how hard hockey players have to work. I know the sport is violent, I know their conditioning has to be exceptional to make it in the NHL. Like Jeremy Roenick had his jaw shattered and came back a few weeks later and is playing without a mask. I am in no way questioning that you have to be a tough motherfucker to play hockey.

All I'm saying is that I don't like the sport. I don't hate the players, I hate the game itself.

Lou
05-05-2004, 12:20 AM
Alright gang we have Philadelphia/Tampa and Calgary/San Jose.

I am PRAYING for a Tampa/Calgary Stanley Cup finals to take away a market in the US and screw ESPN/ABC, and for the one market that they do have (Tampa) to be as small as can be.

Then I hope Calgary wins so they won't be doing much merchandising and profiting off that in the US.

Bob_R
05-05-2004, 12:48 PM
I hope it turns out totally the opposite of what you wish. Just so something so trivial pisses the shit out of you. :)

Lou
05-05-2004, 05:52 PM
See here's the thing--if the Flyers were to win it all, it wouldn't count in my mind as breaking the streak of no championships in 21 years. Just wouldn't count. My reaction would be this:

"So THIS is our championship?"

Bob_R
05-05-2004, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Lou
See here's the thing--if the Flyers were to win it all, it wouldn't count in my mind as breaking the streak of no championships in 21 years. Just wouldn't count. My reaction would be this:

"So THIS is our championship?"

Please explain.

Lou
05-05-2004, 10:27 PM
Because the media will all be saying that the streak of no championships in Philadelphia since 1983 is broken, but it's gonna be a really empty feeling for me because I consider it a minor league sport. Sort of like how a guy who never gets off the bench on a team that wins a championship gets a ring. But it feels hollow.

It just doesn't count. A hockey championship to me is the equivalent of a lacrosse championship. Yeah it's a professional sport but it's not the same as MLB, NFL, or NBA. Believe me there are many people who feel like me here, including a radio talk show host for WIP (sports station).

Bob_R
05-06-2004, 08:58 AM
Yeah, OK, whatever. :rolleyes:

Lou
05-06-2004, 06:14 PM
Well it is, and there are a LOT of people around this area and the country who feel that way. Why else are the ratings in the toilet? There is VERY LITTLE excitement here on the radio about the Flyers. Part of it is that the Flyers have done this before, but also a part of it is that people just don't care about hockey. It's a minor league sport.

Bob_R
05-06-2004, 06:36 PM
I understand exactly where you're coming from Lou. In this country for sure hockey is No. 4. In Canada it's by far #1.

I'm just passionate about hockey Lou and I don't want you to be all upset over this. It's all cool bro.