Conservatism Today

[JCOOK]

What has happened to conservatism in this country?
It used to be that I could take my whiskey home, fuck whoever was willing, listen to whatever I wanted and be left alone. Now I have to pay for lazy people with children, people with no health care,people who dont' plan for THEIR future. What happened to a country where I could be left alone with my own devices and talents to make it or fail on my own?

[FORD]

What happenned to conservatism?

It died when the neocon fascists hijacked it.

[Big Train]

It all changed with PC culture. One sentence that bleeds from liberals, applied a million different ways "I don't think is right that...", is the sound of million government programs, useless grants and the REAL removal of freedoms.

It is just the conservatives used to have more spine to tell these failed hippies to go fuck themselves. Now they are all in power, trying to justify their failed ideals and attempts to live up to them by fucking over the generation after them. Writing checks THEY will never have to cash and burdening my generation with the tab.

Or you could oversimplify and deal with the boogyman Ford loves to play with so much.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Big Train
It all changed with PC culture. One sentence that bleeds from liberals, applied a million different ways "I don't think is right that...", is the sound of million government programs, useless grants and the REAL removal of freedoms.

It is just the conservatives used to have more spine to tell these failed hippies to go fuck themselves. Now they are all in power, trying to justify their failed ideals and attempts to live up to them by fucking over the generation after them. Writing checks THEY will never have to cash and burdening my generation with the tab.

Or you could oversimplify and deal with the boogyman Ford loves to play with so much.

So you agree with me then? Because the only people "in power" right now, AND the only ones spending trillions of dollars, are the neocon fascists. So I guess you believe in the same "boogyman"

[tobinentinc]

Ford you do realize liberalism is closer to facism than conservatism.

[Ally_Kat]

it's the "it takes a village" mentallity. I'm sorry, but no village is rasing my kids. I will, thank you. And likewise, I don't want to raise your kids.

[ELVIS]

Liberals don't think I can manage, thinking for myself...

[Big Train]

Ford my friend, never in this lifetime will you and I agree politically.

What I am saying, and yes criticizing the home team (I have that ability to think critically), is that the conservatives have not done enough to lay down the law with regard to liberal social issues. Is there pork barrel politics absolutely. Ask Mr. Kennedy from my home state (and IKEA Kerry). We have something called the Big Dig. Billions upon Billions of dollars for an underground freeway system. Paid a LOT of hacks and unions hundreds and hundreds of hours of overtime a year, cementing his status a career lifer in the Senate. Untouchable.

[FORD]

Originally posted by tobinentinc
Ford you do realize liberalism is closer to facism than conservatism.

Then why is this country dangerously close to the Fourth Reich right now, with "Conservatives" in charge of everything. government. media. corporations etc.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Big Train
Ford my friend, never in this lifetime will you and I agree politically.

What I am saying, and yes criticizing the home team (I have that ability to think critically), is that the conservatives have not done enough to lay down the law with regard to liberal social issues. Is there pork barrel politics absolutely. Ask Mr. Kennedy from my home state (and IKEA Kerry). We have something called the Big Dig. Billions upon Billions of dollars for an underground freeway system. Paid a LOT of hacks and unions hundreds and hundreds of hours of overtime a year, cementing his status a career lifer in the Senate. Untouchable.


Since I've never been to Boston, I don't keep up with the local news there, but I've heard of the "Big Dig". Might have even seen a 60 minutes story on it. The concept of an underground freeway in a congested large city sounds like a great idea, but obviously, tunneling under existing infrastructure is going to be problematic. If your state had two Republican senators, do you really think they would have opposed such a project? Or if they did, you think they would have been re-elected?

Big construction projects bring decent wage jobs. And between that and the eventual payoff of the finished project, most people probably favored it, right?

[John Ashcroft]

$14.6 billion later, Boston's Big Dig wraps up

BENEATH BOSTON – With a tellingly simple ribbon-cutting ceremony, the last underground segment of Boston's Big Dig project opens Friday - completing major construction on one of the most complex and controversial engineering projects in human history.
It may not look as dramatic as the Hoover Dam, but the revamp of traffic flows in one of America's oldest cities rivals any past US public-works project in complexity - and outpaced them all in cost.

Its effects will be felt for decades and far beyond Boston: It is changing commuting habits here, may influence the prospects for any similarly large-scale efforts in the future, and has hit the pocketbook of almost every taxpayer in America.

But the Big Dig's scale - at its peak it employed 5,000 construction workers - was rivaled by high costs that have been a source of controversy since the project's inception in 1987 - after President Reagan tried unsuccessfully to wield a penny-pinching veto pen.

That's one reason the city will celebrate this weekend with a whimper rather than a bang - or even a pop. The Boston Pops concert scheduled for underground Thursday was canceled. After spending $14.6 billion (up from an initial forecast of about $4 billion in today's dollars), leaders and taxpayers weren't in the mood to shell out an several hundred thousand dollars for the show.

"It will be a mixed legacy," says David Luberoff, associate director of Harvard's Taubman Center for State and Local Government. "For a lot of people in the region it will be seen as a major positive addition. The farther you move from Boston, the less positively people will view the project."

The two-mile-long underground road will ease commutes - at least for a while - reconnect the city with the harbor, and replace an eyesore of a highway with a necklace of green spaces. Already, the spindly Zakim bridge over the Charles River has become a landmark on the city's skyline.

The city won't reap the full benefits for at least another year, when the hulking overhead highway is finally torn down and traffic patterns are completed. But this weekend's opening is surely the end of an era here. And as traffic flows underground, the city can finally assess whether it was worth the wait - or the price.

Engineering marvels

No one disputes that the project is an engineering marvel - particularly given the added challenge of building among subway tunnels and steam pipes while the city bustled above.

The statistics are staggering: Making room for 7.5 miles of underground roads required excavating 16 million cubic yards of dirt - enough to fill New England's football stadium 16 times, or just 20 percent less than the Chunnel Tunnel built to connect Britain and France.

"It rivals anything in the history of the world built by men," OK, gotta step in here... That's just plain bullshit! It's a fucking tunnel fro Christ's sakes! says Matthew Amorello, chairman of the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority, which oversaw the project. "This is the opening of the Panama Canal. This is an incredible achievement."

Above ground, about half of the rusted carcass of elevated highway nicknamed the "green monster" has already been demolished and workers are racing to tear down as much as possible before the Democratic Convention arrives in July.

In its place, a 1.5 mile greenspace named in honor of John F. Kennedy's mother, Rose, will sprout. Exact plans aren't finalized but will likely include eight acres of parks as well as housing, shops, and cultural venues.

Among taxpayers, though, it was the price tag inspired that the most awe. The project cost was more than double the Panama Canal's in today's dollars. Citizens here and nationwide - 60 percent of the tab was federal - wound up paying far more than expected. Revelations about hidden cost overruns angered many, as statewide highway tolls climbed. The Massachusetts Turnpike Authority is planning a $150 million lawsuit against firms that managed the project.

The controversy is less important to many who helped build the tunnels, such as Patrick Mogauro, who has worked underground on the project for six years. Underneath his hard hat and layers of dirt-encrusted sweatshirts, the electrician is feeling wistful as he puts some finishing touches on the Big Dig.

Disappearing jobs

He won't miss pulling heavy lines of wire through four-foot vent ducts. But Mogauro notes, "it kept a lot of families fed." At the project's height, 730 members of Mogauro's union alone found steady work installing lighting, ventilation, and alarms. These days, with the project winding down, the job sheet at the local union hall is empty and 1 in 10 members are out of work.

Poor commies! Maybe if your union wouldn't fleece the awarders of such contracts for billions of dollars you'd be brought back for different projects. Oh well, I hear 7/11 is hiring...

As the opening neared, the median lines were dry, highway signs installed, and all that was missing were commuters. "Another job like this wouldn't be bad," says electricians' union representative Michael Calder. "But I don't see it happening again in my lifetime."

Link: here (http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1219/p02s01-ussc.html)

[ELVIS]

Sounds like a good place for a suitcase nuke...

[Big Train]

Elvis,

Not really and PLEASE don't give anyone any ideas.

Good wages huh? Sons of Democratic party making 100k a year taking tolls, cops making 125k a year on traffic details....it is a good living being a Ted Kennedy hack. It would be a evil republican who would make a guy on traffic detail make 80k a year. How do you think Kerry and Kennedy have been unbeaten and unchallenged for so many years?

Being that most of that is federal money, I'm sure any responsible republican would have had second thoughts about it.