Bush, Kerry, Bozo the Clown, etc..... Does it REALLY matter who is in office ?? [Archive]

SweetSecrets

07-14-2004, 03:07 PM

I mean...I am young, and yes, often nieve... But I really wonder about the direction this country gallops so anxiously with such seemingly close-minded certainty......these uncanny gallivants.......the falling of faith I see surrounding us. What is it all coming to?

Who to believe? WHAT to believe? So many contradictions!.... Democrats...Republicans........Circus Clowns?? I just don't know.

One side of me: ...the side my grandfather speaks to from his grave, a Vet from the first wave onto Utah beach, a knight of George Patton's 3rd Army, "Papaw's" bronze star as it now lives - framed in the living room of our house.... This is what gives me hope----the holding of my head highly like the child in the President's Day school play.

But, the other side: ...the exposure to the current "Accountability Shovedown".....the proliferation of standards....the corporate mentality... The falling of authenticity....the shift towards performance over learning...the seemingly "fade-away" of human generosity and selflessness........etc... Even the music of today, seems to have lost its most significant element....heart!

Who lies and who speaks with honesty? They all say it differently, but the same, nevertheless: "Listen to me!...Not him!...ME!...He doesn't know what he's talking about!...That idiot!...He's lying again! I AM THE ONE TO BELIEVE!"

Is it fame and glory?... money and notoriety?.....or is it service and humble hearts---like those of OUR father's....those who gave their lives and who continue to give them still. What would they say now? Would they die for it again?...Even better...Would THIS generation die for it? I know that some currently are, and that does bring hope for the American heart, it seems....but is it for the right reasons?

........This leaves me confused.....Am I the only one who feels this?

An Independent (in the TRUE sense of the word...whatever that may be),
Mary Frances :confused:

SweetSecrets

07-14-2004, 03:09 PM

Sorry for the NOVEL of a post, my forum friends!

-Mary Frances

Snoo

07-14-2004, 03:11 PM

All we can hope for is the bill that allows people not born in America to run to pass. Jack Slater would have this country fixed in two months.

BrownSound1

07-14-2004, 03:41 PM

I think most politicians are shit bags...Democrat and Republican alike. As far as voting goes, I'm very conservative, so I generally vote Republican. However, there have been times when I've voted for the Democrat, and that is because they worked hard and did the job they were elected to do. That's all the people want, and it is what we are entitled to as a nation.

I get very tired of all of the mudslinging and finger pointing in politics. Both parties need to just shut the fuck up, and quit blaming everything on the other one. Why is all of the fighting necessary? I just can't see why grown men and women have to act like kids on the playground. The thing is, these folks are supposed to all have one thing in common...the good of the people...and I just don't believe that is the case most of the time.

SweetSecrets

07-14-2004, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Snoo
All we can hope for is the bill that allows people not born in America to run to pass. Jack Slater would have this country fixed in two months.

Well, I seriously doubt that the problem lies in the American people (at least...the ORIGINAL source of the problem, that is)....I think it is more socially or politically influenced. And I also refuse to believe that ONE person holds the divinity to bring such a quick fix rooted by some marvelous solution. (Sounds like the AntiChrist to me! LOL! :) ). It is much more complicated than that, I think.

Neverthless, I agree that the majority of Americans DO seem to miss some certain integral clue (although, I think, very little of this is their own fault as individuals); But I do believe that taking the voice away from the American people would be a negation of their existence and identity as well as a contradiction to Liberty and, sadly, all who have given their lives for it.

There is hope, though! I agree!

ELVIS

07-14-2004, 03:55 PM

Whatever FORD tells you, Sweet, don't listen to it...;)

SweetSecrets

07-14-2004, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by Brownsound1
I think most politicians are shit bags...Democrat and Republican alike. As far as voting goes, I'm very conservative, so I generally vote Republican. However, there have been times when I've voted for the Democrat, and that is because they worked hard and did the job they were elected to do. That's all the people want, and it is what we are entitled to as a nation.

I get very tired of all of the mudslinging and finger pointing in politics. Both parties need to just shut the fuck up, and quit blaming everything on the other one. Why is all of the fighting necessary? I just can't see why grown men and women have to act like kids on the playground. The thing is, these folks are supposed to all have one thing in common...the good of the people...and I just don't believe that is the case most of the time.

Yea, I totally agree with you. I usually vote Republican because of my conservative ideals, too. However, I always leave the voting booth wondering if I made the right choices...or if the reason for my decision is backed with the accurate sources needed to even know if my voice is REALLY even MY OWN VOICE. Gosh, I sound confusing!...I've just given a lot of deep philosophical thought into this subject.

I think that America has lost focus on the fact that we should vote for a LEADER, not specifically speaking: a Democrat or Republican. Just someone who will be the best leader for the people. Someone who says "LETS DO IT!!" not "I'LL DO IT!" But most of then again, most of them say that!

But even then, if the politicians are blowing smoke up our asses to trick the American people (who are quite nieve, and that's okay) to see them in a certain light, then voting for the right LEADER is virtually impossible. It is just hard to know if they are true to themselves and truly revealing to the public of their honest beliefs, or if they are just trying to win over society's vote. They just seem to beat around the bush so much...i just wish some of these guys would just look into the camera, straight into the eyes of the American people, and tell it to them straight. They are all just so damn UNCANNY!

ELVIS

07-14-2004, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by SweetPoundcake
I mean...I am young, and yes, often nieve... But I really wonder about the direction this country gallops so anxiously with such seemingly close-minded certainty......these uncanny gallivants.......the falling of faith I see surrounding us. What is it all coming to?

Who to believe? WHAT to believe? So many contradictions!.... Democrats...Republicans........Circus Clowns?? I just don't know.

........This leaves me confused.....Am I the only one who feels this?

An Independent (in the TRUE sense of the word...whatever that may be),
Mary Frances :confused:

Have you ever read any of Ally's posts ??

Shes 20 years old and extremely smart and insightful...

Ally is the voice of reason on this forum...

:elvis:

SweetSecrets

07-14-2004, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
Have you ever read any of Ally's posts ??

Shes 20 years old and extremely smart and insightful...

Ally is the voice of reason on this forum...

:elvis:

I haven't read too many of them yet, but I will make a point to do so! I have talked to her a few times on the forum, though.

Yes, I am sure her and I could get into some very philosophical conversations. She seems really cool from what I have heard so far.

How refreshing!!

Snoo

07-14-2004, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by SweetPoundcake
Well, I seriously doubt that the problem lies in the American people (at least...the ORIGINAL source of the problem, that is)....I think it is more socially or politically influenced. And I also refuse to believe that ONE person holds the divinity to bring such a quick fix rooted by some marvelous solution. (Sounds like the AntiChrist to me! LOL! :) ). It is much more complicated than that, I think.

Neverthless, I agree that the majority of Americans DO seem to miss some certain integral clue (although, I think, very little of this is their own fault as individuals); But I do believe that taking the voice away from the American people would be a negation of their existence and identity as well as a contradiction to Liberty and, sadly, all who have given their lives for it.

There is hope, though! I agree!

Well, I'm not quite old enough to leave America yet. I would be by the second year of Bush's second term, and I'm getting out as fast as I can if he's re-elected. There are two people I'd vote for who COULD be running the first time I get the chance to vote that I'd gladly vote for, and hopefully I'll still be around to do it, but that's up in the air. I really don't much care for this country or the majority of its citizens at the current time. Right, it is politically influenced.

SweetSecrets

07-14-2004, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Snoo
Well, I'm not quite old enough to leave America yet. I would be by the second year of Bush's second term, and I'm getting out as fast as I can if he's re-elected. There are two people I'd vote for who COULD be running the first time I get the chance to vote that I'd gladly vote for, and hopefully I'll still be around to do it, but that's up in the air. I really don't much care for this country or the majority of its citizens at the current time. Right, it is politically influenced.

I am seriously considering Australia right now. I have the choice to leave in exactly a year, so I just might. I need some fresh air from this!

Snoo

07-14-2004, 04:29 PM

I think Canada would be a reasonable fit for me. I have a little less than two years to decide.

ELVIS

07-14-2004, 04:37 PM

How old are you ??

Go now!

Snoo

07-14-2004, 04:38 PM

16, sadly.

ELVIS

07-14-2004, 04:42 PM

That's old enough...

Go prostitute yourself on the streets of Toronto...

Snoo

07-14-2004, 04:51 PM

Their money can't pay for me.

ELVIS

07-14-2004, 04:52 PM

hahaha!

SweetSecrets

07-14-2004, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Snoo
16, sadly.

Enjoy your youth! It goes by fast. I am still in mine as well (age 22), but let me tell you....it is speed of light already!

Trust me, though:

There is a lot of learning that happens from 16 - 22, as I know I still have an overflowing amount to learn myself, regarding the meanings of these weird creatures called humans.

Don't quit your day job just yet, Snoo.

Ally_Kat

07-14-2004, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Snoo
Well, I'm not quite old enough to leave America yet. I would be by the second year of Bush's second term

Why aren't you old enough to leave America? 16 is the age you can legally drop out of high school. And I realize you probably don't want to do that. You can transfer to a school in whichever country you desire to move.

When I was your age, I had enough money worked up to move out if I wanted to. If you are hellbent on leaving, then get a job, put everything into the savings account, and sooner than you can blink your eye, you'll have enough to sustain yourself for a move. Get a job up there, and you can make it.

As to your opinion of this country, no man can fix this country in only two months and no man is going to change your opinion overnight. All I can hope is that your opinion about this land is not because you disagree with the president. Too many kids these days I know tie those thoughts together.

I'd also like to know where in the country you all visited.

Jesus Christ

07-14-2004, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by SweetPoundcake

There is a lot of learning that happens from 16 - 22, as I know I still have an overflowing amount to learn myself, regarding the meanings of these weird creatures called humans.

Indeed, My child. For verily I say unto you, that My Father and I created the human race, and even We do not understandeth the way many of you act these days. For this world is as it was in the days of Noah, and of Sodom and Gommorrah. It is the day that Daniel and John hath prophecied of, and that I, the Son of Man spoke of in Matthew 24.

Take heed that ye be not decieved, and live by My teachings. :)

ELVIS

07-14-2004, 07:54 PM

One other thing SweetP...

Don't listen to this Jesus impersonater either...:D

Jesus Christ

07-14-2004, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
One other thing SweetP...

Don't listen to this Jesus impersonater either...:D

Gregory, remember when I said that he who causeth one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it is better for him that he hath a millstone hung around his neck and he be drowned at sea.

Ye might want to remember that ;)

For I impersonateth no one. I merely speaketh My Word.

Ally_Kat

07-14-2004, 08:22 PM

Jesus, she's 22 not 7 ;)

Panamark

07-15-2004, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by SweetPoundcake
I am seriously considering Australia right now. I have the choice to leave in exactly a year, so I just might. I need some fresh air from this!

Hey in a year permanently, inbetween, little visits !! Why am I suddenly interested in US politics ???? :p

Um who do I have to hate to join this club ?? Is Sammy running, oh hang on he's not a politician.. I vote for Arnie !!! He makes better movies than the rest of them !!!!

How am I going so far ?? :)

Panamark

07-15-2004, 06:22 AM

Can Arnie ever run for President ??

(Panamark surely exposing mass amounts of US politics ignorance !!)

FORD

07-15-2004, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Panamark
Can Arnie ever run for President ??

(Panamark surely exposing mass amounts of US politics ignorance !!)

Nope. The Constitution says that only a natural born American citizen can be President or Vice President.

Right now though, Senator Orrin Hatch (Mormon corporate whore from Utah) is trying to get a Constitutional ammendment going to repeal this rule. Hatch is good friends with Herr Gropenator, so his motivation is obvious.

Given that Arnie brags about his father being a Nazi SS officer, I would rather not see the Constitution changed to accomodate him. Bad enough we got the grandson of Hitler's banker as it is.

Jesus Christ

07-15-2004, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Jesus, she's 22 not 7 ;)

Verily, but 22 is still very young in many ways. As ye well know :)

Ally_Kat

07-15-2004, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Jesus Christ
Verily, but 22 is still very young in many ways. As ye well know :)

But I've been considered an adult in my religion since Confirmation. Plus, didn't they marry the women young back then?

Jesus Christ

07-15-2004, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
But I've been considered an adult in my religion since Confirmation. Plus, didn't they marry the women young back then?

Yes, but life expectancy was much shorter. Even though I was crucified at the age of 33, I would hath been considered "middle aged" for the times, if the term had existed then.

And even though confirmation is a formal beginning of adulthood, as was My Bar Mitzvah, it does not mean that ye stop learning. Nor does it mean ye stop growing. For even when thy body reaches the physical limits, thy spirit still can grow :)

Ally_Kat

07-15-2004, 01:26 PM

Yeah, but you have an idea of right and wrong and thus hold responsibilty for your actions and which path you choose.

John Ashcroft

07-15-2004, 01:52 PM

My advice is to stay away from the network news circuit. Stay away from cable news. Do your homework (if you're interested in politics) via the internet. Our country is the greatest one ever to exist on the face of the planet. Our poor are extremely wealthy by most nation's standards. Opportunity exist here like nowhere else, period.

Now, on to the bigger issue. Never ever ever rely on anybody but yourself for your success in life (or your happiness). This is a common failing amongst many of our countrymen and women. Looking to Goverment (and of course, the idiots that run it) for your personal success and well being. You'll be sorely let down every time if this is the lifestyle you choose. You'll also be severly limiting your potential. Politicians spew pure bullshit out of their pie-holes about 99% of the time. And that goes for both sides of the aisle. Have no faith in them, have faith in God, your values, and the people of America (at least the majority of them). Politicians do not accurately represent the average American, please never make the mistake of believing this.

Keep your ideology and values intact. Never ever compromise your core value system. Work hard. When looking to politicians, understand that none of them will ever fit your idea as a perfect person to advance the issues you hold dear. In my voting lifetime, it's ALWAYS been about choosing the lesser of two evils. It just so happens that I'm adamantly opposed to socialism, and therefore cannot vote for it's proponents. This is the most important issue to me. I'm actually quite liberal on a whole variety of issues, but the reality is that I've learned to accept that my liberal tendencies are subordinate to the more imperative goal of keeping America away from socialism.

No politician represents my entire vision of America. But the left's vision is so counter to mine that I can't see myself ever voting for these clowns. Even if Bush is pushing extremely stupid bullshit like an Ammendment defining marriage (one that has ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE OF EVEN PASSING THE SENATE! Let alone ratification by the states), He's certainly a better candidate to run the country than anyone like Kerry.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth. I can summarize by reiterating the most important point (IMHO): Keep your faith in God, yourself, and America. Never ever rely on someone else for your success.

ELVIS

07-15-2004, 01:57 PM

Verily...

:elvis:

Panamark

07-16-2004, 06:48 AM

Originally posted by FORD
Nope. The Constitution says that only a natural born American citizen can be President or Vice President.

Right now though, Senator Orrin Hatch (Mormon corporate whore from Utah) is trying to get a Constitutional ammendment going to repeal this rule. Hatch is good friends with Herr Gropenator, so his motivation is obvious.

Given that Arnie brags about his father being a Nazi SS officer, I would rather not see the Constitution changed to accomodate him. Bad enough we got the grandson of Hitler's banker as it is.

So "The Presinator" will never see the light of day :(

SweetSecrets

07-16-2004, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
My advice is to stay away from the network news circuit. Stay away from cable news. Do your homework (if you're interested in politics) via the internet.

Who's to say that the internet is a trustworthy media??

I mean.... I am sure there ARE internet sources which may serve as reliable news media, but why trust doing your political homework through a web which 80% (if not more) of its content is porn??

Humm.....seems like a red flag to me.

SweetSecrets

07-16-2004, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
. Our country is the greatest one ever to exist on the face of the planet. Our poor are extremely wealthy by most nation's standards. Opportunity exist here like nowhere else, period.

Well, this is definitely a patriotic response, and I agree with you on a great deal of your ideas on this subject as you will see in my following post; however, isn't such a comment a little bias??

I think you should ask Panamark about this one.

Also..... you must not live in my town because the poor I see here are pretty bad off...many of whom fell victim to their curcumstances as they were basically cheated by this government and it's "extremely wealthy nation". There is quite a cycle of poverty within this country, although it often remains hidden amidst the famliar "LAND OF OPPORTUNITY" mindset; and this cycle, in most cases, does not seem to be the cause of individuals failing to have goals for themselves or failing to believe in or take initiative towards a way to opportunity and change. Rather, many of these individuals have struggled with this same mindset, but only to find themselves horribly let down desptie their own chivalrous persitence.

Don't get me wrong, Senator, I completely respect your years over my lack of.

;)

SweetSecrets

07-16-2004, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by John Ashcroft

Now, on to the bigger issue. Never ever ever rely on anybody but yourself for your success in life (or your happiness). This is a common failing amongst many of our countrymen and women. Looking to Goverment (and of course, the idiots that run it) for your personal success and well being. You'll be sorely let down every time if this is the lifestyle you choose. You'll also be severly limiting your potential. Politicians spew pure bullshit out of their pie-holes about 99% of the time. And that goes for both sides of the aisle. Have no faith in them, have faith in God, your values, and the people of America (at least the majority of them). Politicians do not accurately represent the average American, please never make the mistake of believing this.

Keep your ideology and values intact. Never ever compromise your core value system. Work hard. When looking to politicians, understand that none of them will ever fit your idea as a perfect person to advance the issues you hold dear. In my voting lifetime, it's ALWAYS been about choosing the lesser of two evils. It just so happens that I'm adamantly opposed to socialism, and therefore cannot vote for it's proponents. This is the most important issue to me. I'm actually quite liberal on a whole variety of issues, but the reality is that I've learned to accept that my liberal tendencies are subordinate to the more imperative goal of keeping America away from socialism.

No politician represents my entire vision of America. But the left's vision is so counter to mine that I can't see myself ever voting for these clowns. Even if Bush is pushing extremely stupid bullshit like an Ammendment defining marriage (one that has ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE OF EVEN PASSING THE SENATE! Let alone ratification by the states), He's certainly a better candidate to run the country than anyone like Kerry.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth. I can summarize by reiterating the most important point (IMHO): Keep your faith in God, yourself, and America. Never ever rely on someone else for your success.

As for all of the above..........I must say that I completely agree with you.

:D

SweetSecrets

07-16-2004, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Panamark
Why am I suddenly interested in US politics ???? :p

Don't waste your time, my Aussie!...Your country is perfect!...Save yourself the stress and tire of United States politcs!.....I hope to soon be able to! ;) hint hint :D

Panamark

07-17-2004, 12:59 AM

Sounds like good advice to me.. (And Im looking forward to it more than you know !)

We are very laid back about politics compared to you guys, but you are our Brothers, and if needed, anytime, the Aussies will be there with America. Goes without saying. Same with the English.

Its seems the US, UK and Australia are in everything together these days.

But the average aussie on the street doesnt dissect politics to the degree you blokes do ! But hey, perhaps your government needs a good dissection ??

ELVIS

07-17-2004, 02:14 AM

Politics is a full time, full contact sport, here in the USA...

:elvis:

SweetSecrets

07-17-2004, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
Politics is a full time, full contact sport, here in the USA...

:elvis:

Yea, no kidding! :cato:

FORD

07-17-2004, 10:49 PM

I haven't studied Aussie politics much, but I remember a lot of their MP's didn't have any problem letting Junior know what they thought of him when the Idiot Son addressed the Aussie Parlaiment last year. Gotta respect that. They showed more backbone than Daschle, Pelosi, Gephardt, etc. have in the last 3 years.

Ally_Kat

07-17-2004, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by SweetSecrets
Who's to say that the internet is a trustworthy media??

I mean.... I am sure there ARE internet sources which may serve as reliable news media, but why trust doing your political homework through a web which 80% (if not more) of its content is porn??

Humm.....seems like a red flag to me.

sources cited is a big thing for me if I see someone has made a political website. But basically, anything on angelfire, geocities, and any of those other free websites I generally ignore. Anyone with html knowledge and a nack for writing can make a political website (leaning either way) and have people read it and claim it to be the truth. Anyone with half a brain would look for sources to the claims made within the site.

diamond den™

07-18-2004, 11:37 AM

FORD

07-18-2004, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by diamond den™
FORD, you should run for President!!!! :)

Sure.... as soon as I can find $200 million

SweetSecrets

07-18-2004, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by FORD
Sure.... as soon as I can find $200 million

Exactly what I am talking about!!!!

Betty Bush III

07-18-2004, 07:58 PM

A big problem with the baby-boomer generation is that they followed a generation that faced and conquered the amazing challenges of WWII, and earned the title of "the greatest generation." My grandparent's generation agreed on certain fundamental Patriotic values. The boomers don't. And Vietnam has contributed to the unrest and cynicism.
The last time I witnessed maturity and Patriotic unity was after the mass murder on 9-11. Boomer politicians (the Dems), with excessive guilt over everything bad that's ever happened in the world, have manipulated so many Americans for their weak and self-hating agenda. They've created these special interest groups, welfare has changed its name to "entitlement," illegal aliens have become "undocumented workers." This is the agenda that the marxist liberal-democrats have been slamming in our faces for years. It's the self-hating, guilt-ridden, weak America that the rest of the world is jumping on for the ride. They love it. The UN is thrilled. Did you hear that some Democrat politicians suggested that the UN should oversee our next presidental election in order to verify the results. Hang on while I puke. Thank god it was voted down. No American fought for this. Lets ask the greatest generation if the UN should be verifying US elections.